Harvey Aftermath - Gas shortages

[frugalmamatx]

Has anyone mentioned this yet? Houston was the center of the the gas refining industry apparently. Most of which is now offline until they can assess damages and flooding. 

 

San Antonio is running out of gas fast. And it's getting nasty at some stations with arguments. According to the news it's stretching as far as Dallas. And sending gas to Houston for relief efforts is taking priority so it'll be worse before it's better. 

 

Texas people - how bad is it where you are?

[Guest]

http://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/local/texas-news/railroad-commissioner-theres-no-fuel-crisis-in-texas/287-469658632

[Janeway]

It has been horrible.

[Janeway]

http://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/local/texas-news/railroad-commissioner-theres-no-fuel-crisis-in-texas/287-469658632

The guy writing this article was either a liar or stupid and spouting off about something he knows nothing about. My entire town and the two towns bordering it or out of gas.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Janeway

[Guest]

The guy writing this article was either a liar or stupid and spouting off about something he knows nothing about. My entire town and the two towns bordering it or out of gas.

It's being caused by people panicking and going out to buy gas "while they still can". It's like a run on the bank and the bank runs out of money.

[frugalmamatx]

It's being caused by people panicking and going out to buy gas "while they still can". It's like a run on the bank and the bank runs out of money.

 

It is a run. BUt the supply isn't there either. Local stations here haven't gotten a delivery since Wednesday. And no idea when they can expect one. 

 

San Antonio is a commuter city. People use a lot of gas. This is going to be interesting. 

[delilah17]

I'm in Houston, and there is gas here. I'm sure large efforts are being made to replenish things. I'm really concerned that there are still a lot of areas that have high water.

[OneStepAtATime]

Gas availability is lower than normal because of Harvey but KINSA is correct, there is a "run on the bank" issue going on as well.  People are filling up all of their vehicles and topping off continually when gas is available because of a fear of running out of gas, causing more gas than normal to be pumped, causing more stations than normal to need more gas, causing there to be more of a gas shortage than there would have been.

 

We have gas shortages here, too, but the "run on the bank" issue is definitely driving part of this.  

Edited August 31, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Bootsie]

DH is in the process of driving from San Antonio to the DFW area.  He has seen lines at some stations and several places were out of diesel.  I had a colleague who said she stopped several places in the Arlington area that were not selling any gasoline and then had to wait in line where she did stop. 

[Lanny]

OP you wrote: "Houston was the center of the the gas refining industry apparently.".   Houston IS the center of the Petrochemical Industry of the world...

 

There are always temporary shortages and temporary price increases, until all of the Refineries are back online.  They will need to inspect all of the pipelines and all of the  Refineries, before they can go back online.

 

Hopefully in a week or so many of the things mentioned in this thread before my reply is posted will have significantly decreased.

 

There is also a direct relationship between the price of petroleum and the U.S. Dollar. When Petroleum goes up, the U.S. Dollar goes down. Inversely proportional.  That's one major factor in the value of the U.S. Dollar and affects those of us who are Overseas Americans, as well as American companies that Export their products to other countries. Everything is priced in U.S. Dollars.

 

 

[emzhengjiu]

It's crazy today in the DFW area!  Rude drivers are blocking right hand lanes of traffic, cutting in front of people.  Thankfully, I filled the tank yesterday before any of the hysteria hit.

[AimeeM]

I'm in South Carolina. Our gas prices have jumped (at least on our major road).

[Janeway]

There is no run on gas. You can only fill up with so much gas. No one is bringing in tankers and filling those up.

[prairiewindmomma]

We're in Texas.  They aren't expecting a resupply for at least 4-7 days.  I think they are fighting over semantics. Whether they call it a shortage or a distribution issue, it doesn't matter.....today's run at the pumps just accelerated an issue that was going to hit one way or the other.

 

It's affecting us personally.  All of the stations by us are empty.  I will be walking my dd to school tomorrow, and my son will be walking in the other direction for his outside class.  We have to save what gasoline we have for more urgent issues.  Thankfully, schools, church, and doctors are all in walking distance.  Dh's work is another matter....

[Mama Geek]

The refineries that are shut down supply between 20-25% of the gas in this country.  There are going to be shortages until they are back up to speed which 2-3 weeks looks like a maybe.

[Pawz4me]

In addition to the refineries being down the Colonial Pipeline is down. It supplies a huge part of the fuel consumed in the southeast, especially from Georgia to NC. At the three gas stations nearest us prices jumped twenty cents a gallon from yesterday afternoon to this afternoon. Many of us in the southeast experienced supply disruptions last year when there was a problem with the pipeline (but no co-occurring refinery issues). Given how fresh that is in most memories, I suspect there will be a continued run on gas stations here until the pipeline and refinery issues are resolved. I readily admit to texting both of our college boys early this morning and telling them to make sure they have a sufficient amount of gas in their tanks.

[Tiffnkids]

After Hurricane Ike (I think) about 10 years ago, our part of western NC was completely out of gas for several days. The supply of gas was disrupted by the storm and it took a little while to move supplies around.

[mominco]

Irving,Coppell,Lewsville -suburbs of Dallas are all out of gas!

I have 1/2 a tank and Dh a 1/4 so we should be okay for a while if we are conservative.

I saw some real long lines today.It seems like everyone is filling up and there is the long

weekend travel plans for folks so yeah!

 

[heartlikealion]

I don't know about in Houston but I remember in the past when people were trying to get gas the dumbest thing was everyone was leaving their car running while they were in line for the gas. I guess no one wanted to put their car in park because then they would need to move up when the line moved. It was just a horrible system. I mean no one was gonna tell you that you had to leave the car running, but things were a mess and I think the lines extended directly to the road you know.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

There is no run on gas. You can only fill up with so much gas. No one is bringing in tankers and filling those up.

 

You are correct that people are not bringing in tankers, but you are incorrect regarding runs on gas stations.  When people start panicking about a possible shortage, they often deviate from their normal purchasing behavior.  If everyone starts trying to top up each vehicle they own rather than filling up when they normally would, then current the supply runs out sooner than expected.  This behavior magnifies any issues in the supply line and makes short term shortages worse. It is the same thing that happens in southern cities when there is a threat of snow, and more people than normal start buying extra bread/milk/eggs (because apparently snowy weather = French toast) at the grocery store.

[Violet Crown]

Local news this evening said there were places in Dallas charging $6-$8 per gallon. Prices have only gone up 6% in Austin but the lines at stations are forming. Fortunately nearly everything is in biking distance for us, including dh's job, and what isn't is in city bus range. So we're happy to wait it out with what we have left in our tank.

[ddcrook]

You are correct that people are not bringing in tankers, but you are incorrect regarding runs on gas stations. When people start panicking about a possible shortage, they often deviate from their normal purchasing behavior. If everyone starts trying to top up each vehicle they own rather than filling up when they normally would, then current the supply runs out sooner than expected. This behavior magnifies any issues in the supply line and makes short term shortages worse. It is the same thing that happens in southern cities when there is a threat of snow, and more people than normal start buying extra bread/milk/eggs (because apparently snowy weather = French toast) at the grocery store.

Yes. Today someone told me that they filled both of their cars and two gas cans. I'm sure that is not their normal purchasing behavior.

 

 

 

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

[ddcrook]

Driving to an appointment today in Fort Worth, I saw five gas stations that were out of gas and three that were open with long lines. On the way home only one station still had gas.

 

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk

[Murphy101]

It's crazy today in the DFW area! Rude drivers are blocking right hand lanes of traffic, cutting in front of people. Thankfully, I filled the tank yesterday before any of the hysteria hit.

My husband is in DFW. He confirms it's "___ing insanity" to quote him once he made it back to his apartment. He has gas for today and tomorrow, but then he is out. Even so, he said he is going to wait until about midnight or later to get gas in hopes the afterwork frenzy died down some and there's still gas left. Hopefully the crazy will stop and the stations will get refueled by the end of the weekend. *nervous*

 

Someone on my FB feed said people needed to quit freaking out that there would probably be gas again in a week. A WEEK?! I get that's not as crisis as being under water in Houston, but a week without being able to get to work, thus a week without pay, is indeed a financial crisis for many average Americans and would be a valid reason to be really stressed out.

[HollyDay]

I can tell you there is no fuel where I live.  You can check gasbuddy.com for updates.  Dh went to 4 stations this morning and finally found fuel at the 5th.  I fueled my car this morning right before the fuel station closed and had to get the  super-supreme fuel grade.  Dd could not find fuel on the way home from college today.  My friend waited in line 20 minutes for fuel.  Another waited 1 and 1/2 hours.  The news keeps saying there is no problem, but something is not the way it should be. 

 

No one I know is "making a run on the gas stations."  DFW is a commuting area.  People drive to work.  Mass transit is not available in many areas. 

 

I stocked up on groceries and household goods when I fueled my car today.  As a family, we plan to operate on "fuel emergency" status.  School, work, medical.  That is it.  I'm not hearing when this situation is going to improve.  The news couldn't give an answer.  A week?  Two?  Longer??  I don't know how else to approach it.  Dd needs fuel to go to college and work.  Dh needs fuel to work.  The best I can do to help is not to use fuel. 

 

By the way, has anyone looked at the track for Hurricane Irma??

 

 

[Murphy101]

Right. DFW is a not just a commuting city, it's a long commute commuting city. You can't hardly go anywhere without a 1.5/2 hour or more commute even if you try to avoid the worst high traffic time frames. There isn't any reliable transit there. If you don't have a fueled up car, you can't get anywhere.

[QueenCat]

You are correct that people are not bringing in tankers, but you are incorrect regarding runs on gas stations.  When people start panicking about a possible shortage, they often deviate from their normal purchasing behavior.  If everyone starts trying to top up each vehicle they own rather than filling up when they normally would, then current the supply runs out sooner than expected.  This behavior magnifies any issues in the supply line and makes short term shortages worse. It is the same thing that happens in southern cities when there is a threat of snow, and more people than normal start buying extra bread/milk/eggs (because apparently snowy weather = French toast) at the grocery store.

 

You are 100% right.

[KarenNC]

We're in NC, and the prices have jumped at least 40 cents a gallon from a day or so ago. We got caught up in a shortage a few years ago when the pipeline was down. We were on the way home from the beach and didn't know about the shortages nearer to home, and went at least an hour on a major highway with tons of stations but no gas anywhere to be found, so we're rather gun-shy. 

 

I like the term "fuel emergency status." We're doing the same thing, sticking close to home. I will drive my daughter to and from school tomorrow (half-hour roundtrip), but we won't be doing the hour and a half roundtrip to aikido tonight, tomorrow, or Saturday. We may or may not make the hour roundtrip to church on Sunday, depending on the status. Luckily, my husband can work from home tomorrow (his boss is in TX and very understanding), since his commute can be an hour each way. Even with relatively fuel-efficient cars, that takes a toll.

[Murphy101]

You are correct that people are not bringing in tankers, but you are incorrect regarding runs on gas stations. When people start panicking about a possible shortage, they often deviate from their normal purchasing behavior. If everyone starts trying to top up each vehicle they own rather than filling up when they normally would, then current the supply runs out sooner than expected. This behavior magnifies any issues in the supply line and makes short term shortages worse. It is the same thing that happens in southern cities when there is a threat of snow, and more people than normal start buying extra bread/milk/eggs (because apparently snowy weather = French toast) at the grocery store.

 

😆 Snowy weather = French toast. Lol

[vonfirmath]

I'm in Austin.our work is talking about having some people work from home. The gas station I went to on the way home had gas, but much longer lines than normal. The gas station nearest us was put last night. No idea if they got more today,

 

The top two largest refineries in the country are offline, as well as 10 others, which is contributing to this

 

Oh, at the gas station, people were filling their car, and then had a gas can or two they were filling as well. One thing contributing to the length of the lines

Edited September 1, 2017 by vonfirmath

[Caroline]

Gas prices in the Atlanta area are up. Our gas prices go up at any threat. After Katrina, the state closed our schools for two days in order to save gas. I am pretty sure it was a political move. There's been no talk of that this time.

[Murphy101]

Gas prices in the Atlanta area are up. Our gas prices go up at any threat. After Katrina, the state closed our schools for two days in order to save gas. I am pretty sure it was a political move. There's been no talk of that this time.

Yeah I was surprised by that. The news reports were spinning the kids back to school asap as a an effort to give them comforting routine and subsidized meals, but I think that's ... well not dumb not not likely.

 

It seems to me, all the meals the entire homeless flooded family gets is being subsidized right now? And it's not like they are going to school with their friends and favorite teachers. It's a new school, a very very crowded cram packed school with a lot of extremely stressed out adults and kids. That does not sound at all like a comforting environment conductive to learning for children to me.

 

Personally, I think if the schools open at all, it should be as shelters. That makes a lot more sense to me and could significantly reduce the burden of the current shelters.

[RegGuheert]

This is where an electric car makes a big difference. MomsintheGarden commutes 50 miles RT and does not use a drop of gasoline to make the trip. Unlike gasoline, we have a way to make our own electricity at home.

 

During the big fuel shortages in the Southeast last year, many on the electric vehicle forums were unaffected because they had electricity. Same with Sandy. EVs were very new then, but the few that had them avoided the serious fuel shortages.

[ScoutTN]

Local news this evening said there were places in Dallas charging $6-$8 per gallon. Prices have only gone up 6% in Austin but the lines at stations are forming. Fortunately nearly everything is in biking distance for us, including dh's job, and what isn't is in city bus range. So we're happy to wait it out with what we have left in our tank.

Aren't there price gauging laws there? When the pipeline broke and our supply was low last year, the governor immediately made a public statement reminding everyone that gauging would be prosecuted.

 

 

Eta: It is expected that prices go up in a shortage, but to jump from $2 to $8/gallon in a few days is gauging. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by ScoutTN

[KarenNC]

This is where an electric car makes a big difference. MomsintheGarden commutes 50 miles RT and does not use a drop of gasoline to make the trip. Unlike gasoline, we have a way to make our own electricity at home.

 

During the big fuel shortages in the Southeast last year, many on the electric vehicle forums were unaffected because they had electricity. Same with Sandy. EVs were very new then, but the few that had them avoided the serious fuel shortages.

 

I'd love to have an electric vehicle or even a hybrid, but a new (or rather, a "new-to-us" used) car isn't an option any time soon. <sigh>

[PineFarmMom]

nm

Edited September 1, 2017 by PineFarmMom

[TechWife]

 I readily admit to texting both of our college boys early this morning and telling them to make sure they have a sufficient amount of gas in their tanks.

 

When my son told me he had less than 1/8 of a tank, I sent him to fill up. He paid $2.25/gal. Prices within a five mile radius range from $2.25 at Costco to $2.49 at Sheetz. It's not too bad, we were $2.21 last week, so I think we are holding our own so far.

 

The NC governor declared a "State of Emergency" today, which lifts limits on maximum service restrictions for fuel trucks moving through NC. This will enable gasoline to move faster by road, since the pipeline is closed. It also put a price gouging laws into effect for 45 days. 

 

According to what I am reading, the Colonial Pipeline is operating intermittently  from Louisiana to states "east and northeast," which means we are still getting gas, just more slowly. So far we are no where near the risk of other states of running out of fuel, but it pays to be wise and conserve, as always. 

 

http://www.wral.com/cooper-declares-state-of-emergency-to-allow-gasoline-to-travel-quickly-through-nc/16917664/

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by TechWife

[TechWife]

This is where an electric car makes a big difference. MomsintheGarden commutes 50 miles RT and does not use a drop of gasoline to make the trip. Unlike gasoline, we have a way to make our own electricity at home.

 

During the big fuel shortages in the Southeast last year, many on the electric vehicle forums were unaffected because they had electricity. Same with Sandy. EVs were very new then, but the few that had them avoided the serious fuel shortages.

 

My husband has been driving an EV for five years and at times like this, I'm really glad! 

[Violet Crown]

Aren't there price gauging laws there? When the pipeline broke and our supply was low last year, the governor immediately made a public statement reminding everyone that gauging would be prosectuted.

  

Yes, I assumed anywhere charging quadruple prices will be investigated: though it may be Texas price-gouging laws only kick in where a state of emergency has been declared. But anyway our mild price increase here wouldn't run afoul of those,

 

This is where an electric car makes a big difference. MomsintheGarden commutes 50 miles RT and does not use a drop of gasoline to make the trip. Unlike gasoline, we have a way to make our own electricity at home.

During the big fuel shortages in the Southeast last year, many on the electric vehicle forums were unaffected because they had electricity. Same with Sandy. EVs were very new then, but the few that had them avoided the serious fuel shortages.

Yes, we are getting a similar effect from our bicycles.

[frugalmamatx]

San Antonio is saying at 1pm yesterday, we had 7 stations out of gas. By 9:30 pm? Over 270 had run out. I expect tomorrow to be worse tbh. It's Friday, the first and the start of a holiday weekend. 

 

 

It's times like this I"m glad I use the bus. It won't affect us much. 

[Caroline]

Yeah I was surprised by that. The news reports were spinning the kids back to school asap as a an effort to give them comforting routine and subsidized meals, but I think that's ... well not dumb not not likely.

 

It seems to me, all the meals the entire homeless flooded family gets is being subsidized right now? And it's not like they are going to school with their friends and favorite teachers. It's a new school, a very very crowded cram packed school with a lot of extremely stressed out adults and kids. That does not sound at all like a comforting environment conductive to learning for children to me.

 

Personally, I think if the schools open at all, it should be as shelters. That makes a lot more sense to me and could significantly reduce the burden of the current shelters.

I meant after Katrina, the governor of Georgia closed Georgia schools. We were not affected by Katrina. There was no need to close Georgia schools.

[RegGuheert]

The refinery situation is worse than what I thought:  Currently 25% of the refining capacity in the U.S. is now shut down.  That includes 50% of the capacity which feeds the Colonial Pipeline.  Apparently, many of those refineries will not be able to restart until after tankers can get into the Port of Houston, which is now closed.

 

This is not a fake shortage.  Those government officials who said that were either ignorant or lying or both.

[creekland]

Gas has gone up 15 cents per gallon pretty much overnight here locally in PA.

 

The thing that bugs me is how quickly they raise the prices to get more profit the moment something "bad" hits the news.  Once everything is restored they are slow to lower the prices because "the gas in still in the tanks cost us more and we have to sell it at the higher rate."  Somehow this same reasoning doesn't apply to the cheaper gas still in the tanks from prior to the announcement.  It only hits when it's more expensive gas already in the tanks.   :glare:

 

And, of course, there's the domino effect.  Once one station raises their rates, everyone else does too.  They didn't all get refueled at the same time, but hey... make profit when you can!

[RegGuheert]

Here is an article on the Colonial Pipeline shutdown from an oil-industry rag.  (Kallanish Energy has a paid news service, but this article is a free one.)

[KarenNC]

I meant after Katrina, the governor of Georgia closed Georgia schools. We were not affected by Katrina. There was no need to close Georgia schools.

 

It was because of the fuel situation after Katrina with Rita on the way in and the threat of more damage. The entire region was affected by the fuel shortages from Katrina. My husband had to travel to Atlanta during that period and it was touch and go as to whether he could find gas on the way through SC and into GA.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/23/AR2005092301717.html

Edited September 1, 2017 by KarenNC

[heartlikealion]

Someone just complained on my facebook feed that they can't make it to work because the gas stations were out of gas and they are on E. They are in Dallas. Someone else commented they had to go to several gas stations to get gas and they are in Austin.

[heartlikealion]

But what if you run out of power? How do you charge the electric car?

[prairiewindmomma]

Well, dh has enough gasoline to get to work 2 more times. This morning, we set off before sunrise to walk dd to school. Ds headed in the other direction for his class. 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Right. DFW is a not just a commuting city, it's a long commute commuting city. You can't hardly go anywhere without a 1.5/2 hour or more commute even if you try to avoid the worst high traffic time frames. There isn't any reliable transit there. If you don't have a fueled up car, you can't get anywhere.

 

??

 

dsil works 15 minutes from their house - and dd is about 30 minutes.  and they thought she had a long commute.  they're on the outskirts. granted when she was driving me to the airport to fly out - we were both commenting on the number of cars on the freeway at 5am.

[Murphy101]

??

 

dsil works 15 minutes from their house - and dd is about 30 minutes. and they thought she had a long commute. they're on the outskirts. granted when she was driving me to the airport to fly out - we were both commenting on the number of cars on the freeway at 5am.

I assure you, they are a lucky exception, not the rule.