Pain meds and red heads

[Mom-ninja.]

So I do know there are some studies showing evidence that red heads don't respond to pain meds as well as others. 

 

This is my experience with my ginger boy. I'm always at a loss when he is in pain but what I give him doesn't work. 

 

What do you do with your kids? I'm also curious as to what your doctor says. 

 

In the mean time suggestions for how to help decrease his pain from braces. He just got them 2 days ago and still says he can't chew because his teeth hurt too much. We are looking at 3 years so lots of adjustments = lots more headaches/pain. 

 

 

[Artichoke]

One of our redheads had this problem, too.  We found the only thing to work for pain with his braces was Alleive ( naproxen ).  He also has to have more local anesthesia when having dental work done.  

[zoobie]

I'm a redhead and have problems with anesthesia but not really pain medicine. I agree with the Aleve suggestion, and I'd suggest taking it before the adjustment. We went with Damon-style braces for my oldest, and there pretty much weren't adjustments. It seemed so much easier than when I had to go every week or every other week as a kid! 

[Tap]

My daughter and I, have this problem.  We are not completely red, but have highlights.  My dentist made the comment the other day, about there being a link.  We get pain relief, but it wears off in about half the time.

 

We both have to take smaller doses more often, because a large dose at one time, rarely lasts on us as long as it is supposed to. We also get more side effects because our bodies process meds so fast.  

 

DD was 15yo when she got braces so she got adult doses of meds.

 

For braces adjustment days:

1 tab of  naproxen (Aleve) every 12 hours (morning and bed)....... with

1 extra strength acetaminiophen 500mg (Tylenol) every 4 hours while awake. Morning dose on bad days were 2 to start and then 1 every 4 hours after. 

 

She took the meds starting 6 hours or so before the appointment, not waiting until after the appointment when the pain was already there.  

 

She only had adjustment pain a few times that lasted more than one day, and it was typically when they switched wires or added/removed her springs.

 

The Aleve works to reduce inflammation and thus pain from swelling/pressure on nerves.  It can help pain go away faster because it treats the cause of pain, by helping to clear  the inflammation faster.

The Tylenol works to reduce the perception of pain, making the pain feel less significant, but doesn't speed up the cause of the pain going away. 

 

 

Over time, it seems that kids get more used to the type of pain/discomfort of adjustments and can handle the pain a bit better.  Taking pain meds, may make the kid less likely to get used tot he discomfort, but if he is miserable, then it may be worth it at least for the 1st few adjustments.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Tap

[ktgrok]

Redhead here, and yup. 

 

Ask your pediatrician what a prescription dose of motrin/ibuprofen would be and give that. Alternate with tylenol if need be.

 

Also, as a heads up, we tend to metabolize more quickly, hence the alternating with tylenol. I won't lie, I often take meds sooner than it says to. My father (not a redhead, but the gene comes from his side of the family, and he reacts the same way) once asked a pharmacist how much pain medication he could take "before it kills me", lol. 

 

After surgery I kept asking for more pain meds in recovery, until a nurse said "we've given you a LOT of morphine....you can't have anymore."

 

That said, some meds work better for me than others. Ibuprofen works better than tylenol. Vicodin works better than regular codeine. Dilaudid worked very well in the hospital, but upsets my stomach a bit. 

 

And always ask for the longer acting local anesthetics at the dentist and such. The short acting stuff doesn't last nearly long enough. 

[ktgrok]

Oh yes, Aleve works pretty well for me. 

[Miss Peregrine]

My redhead dd has this problem and will be getting braces this month. Aleve doesn't usually work for her, either, so I'm not looking forward to it.

[redsquirrel]

I just want to say thank you for taking this seriously.  I was always treated like a whiner etc. 

[PrincessMommy]

my mom was auburn and it was definitely an issue.  She died before a lot of this information became available.  She suffered a lot.  IT was something we knew about her as a family, but doctors rarely listened.

 

[rjand6more]

It is a real problem.  I'm sorry you have been treated like a whiner.;(

 

Also, there is compelling evidence that the inflammatory process aids in tooth movement with orthodontia.  So, I will not say you need to suffer or make your kids suffer, but it can mean less time in braces and more progress.  So, I always advise to use them sparingly and when really necessary.

[UncleEJ]

Another redhead here with that problem. I've never taken a Tylenol in my life that did a damn thing. 600-800mg of Advil may or may not help a tiny bit for a headache or back pain. Aleve is sometimes effective. But since I have Crohn's disease, I can't take any NSAIDs. It's pretty swell. 😒 Narcotics are only somewhat helpful for me (or else I have unrealistic expectations for pain relief). I had complications from a tonsillectomy a few years ago and spent a couple days in the hospital with a Demerol drip. I would say it dropped my pain from a 10 to a 9. I just couldn't stay awake long enough to care. Anytime I get prescribed a narcotic, I am super stingy with them so I can have a few on hand in case I am actually in pain. Definitely one of the bummers about being a ginger.

[MaeFlowers]

So I do know there are some studies showing evidence that red heads don't respond to pain meds as well as others.

 

This is my experience with my ginger boy. I'm always at a loss when he is in pain but what I give him doesn't work.

 

What do you do with your kids? I'm also curious as to what your doctor says.

 

In the mean time suggestions for how to help decrease his pain from braces. He just got them 2 days ago and still says he can't chew because his teeth hurt too much. We are looking at 3 years so lots of adjustments = lots more headaches/pain.

If the pain is that bad, you could ask the dentist for pain meds. I only had one adjustment that hurt that badly. The dentist gave me prescription Tylenol with codeine.

 

Obviously, I'm not recommending this for every adjustment.

[zaichiki]

So I do know there are some studies showing evidence that red heads don't respond to pain meds as well as others. 

 

This is my experience with my ginger boy. I'm always at a loss when he is in pain but what I give him doesn't work. 

 

What do you do with your kids? I'm also curious as to what your doctor says. 

 

In the mean time suggestions for how to help decrease his pain from braces. He just got them 2 days ago and still says he can't chew because his teeth hurt too much. We are looking at 3 years so lots of adjustments = lots more headaches/pain. 

Yes: my redheads need more anesthesia and Novocaine.  Ds hasn't yet needed pain medications. Dd's experience is that if she gets the dose typical for her weight/age, she retains some sensation. Her most recent event, a few years ago, was at the oral surgeon. She didn't know how to tell him that she could still feel during the extraction, at the time, because she figured that was just how it was supposed to be (no experience). She was emotional afterwards and told me. That is NOT a pleasant memory for her. I have since showed her studies and articles about how redheads don't respond the same way others do and I have suggested she remember this and mention it to doctors/anesthesiologists in the future.

 

Oh and also, dd tells me that she doesn't get much effect from nitrous oxide, either. The dentist tells her it will make her loopy, happy, or sleepy and she says she feels no difference at all.  (That stuff affects me HARD.) We will talk to them about this next time she needs it.

 

Thank you for bringing up this topic!

[zaichiki]

Oh and I think allergy medicine is similar.  Dd can take two Benedryls and feel absolutely no drowsiness.  If I take *one* it knocks me out.  Completely asleep. Done.

 

She used to take Claritin for her seasonal allergies, but it completely stopped working.  Zyrtec works less well now, too.  Thankfully Allegra still works for her.  I wonder if this is connected to whatever the red-headed gene does to her diminished sensitivity to pain medications?

[AmandaVT]

I wonder if this is why medicine always wears off quickly for me! I "woke up too early" when I had my tonsils out, according to the nurse. The numbness wore off very quickly from my C Section and whenever I have dental work done, the numbness has worn off by the time I'm checking out. 

 

I'm not a true redhead, but I have a ton of red undertones to my hair and was strawberry blonde as a kid.

[Sara in AZ]

Oh and I think allergy medicine is similar. Dd can take two Benedryls and feel absolutely no drowsiness. If I take *one* it knocks me out. Completely asleep. Done.

 

She used to take Claritin for her seasonal allergies, but it completely stopped working. Zyrtec works less well now, too. Thankfully Allegra still works for her. I wonder if this is connected to whatever the red-headed gene does to her diminished sensitivity to pain medications?

This thread is fascinating to me! I had read about this stuff, but not ever heard real life stories. I gave my red headed DD Benadryl for an itchy, bumpy rash she had all over her arm post surgery and it did nothing for the rash and didn't even put her to sleep.

 

Last summer she broke both her arms at the same time and was in sooooo much pain. They gave her every pain med they could give her, but it was still so bad. 😢

 

I will be more sympathetic at ortho appointments after reading this thread!

[J-rap]

Wow, that is so interesting!  My dd stopped taking pain meds years ago because nothing worked.  Even when she went to the ER and was given morphine, it didn't help.  She isn't a redhead herself though, but a couple of her siblings have red highlights.  Hmmm...

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by J-rap

[bethben]

I'm a full on redhead and so are 3 of my sisters.  Just antidotal...I had to have minor surgery to remove a large splinter in my hand.  They kept injecting more and more shots to numb up the finger.  They were amazed at how many I needed just to not feel any pressure at all.   I've had medication where the correct dose for me (I was supposed to up the dosage until the symptoms went away for this particular medication) was similar to a person twice my weight.  My sister remembers having a tooth pulled as a kid and the Novocain they gave her was obviously not enough.  It's also scary how well I synthesized alcohol when I was a stupid college student back in the day.  The redhead mutation has a lot of weird side effects.

[Tap]

Wow, that is so interesting!  My dd stopped taking pain meds years ago because nothing worked.  Even when she went to the ER and was given morphine, it didn't help.  She isn't a redhead herself though, but a couple of her siblings have red highlights.  Hmmm...

If she ever has to have serious pain meds again, she may need to try Dilaudid (hydromorphone is the generic).  For some reason it seems to work for people who don't process other meds well.

 

It is one of the strongest on the market, so doctors don't usually use it, but it can be a God send for those of use who metabolize meds too fast.

 

It puts me to sleep but gives me horrible nightmares when I start to drift off, so I hate to use it. When I am hurting that bad,  a temporary nightmare is worth it.  I don't think my nightmares issue  is a common side effect but one of the most common is that it tends to put people to sleep.  

[Tap]

I'm a full on redhead and so are 3 of my sisters.  Just antidotal...I had to have minor surgery to remove a large splinter in my hand.  They kept injecting more and more shots to numb up the finger.  They were amazed at how many I needed just to not feel any pressure at all.   I've had medication where the correct dose for me (I was supposed to up the dosage until the symptoms went away for this particular medication) was similar to a person twice my weight.  My sister remembers having a tooth pulled as a kid and the Novocain they gave her was obviously not enough.  It's also scary how well I synthesized alcohol when I was a stupid college student back in the day.  The redhead mutation has a lot of weird side effects.

LOL yep, to the amount needed to numb us up.  My dentist is always surprised how much she needs to give me.  The other thing is that it is hard to keep us numb.  So, once it starts to wear off.....it is gone.  Almost immediately.  My doctor knows that if I signal her, she has to stop right then and give me a shot.  The time it takes for the new one to kick in, is roughly the same as how long it takes for the last shot to wear off.  So, unless she keeps right on top of it, I am in excruciating pain in 5 minutes.

 

 

I have a really high tolerance to pain though.  Which is odd.  After 2 c-sections, a varicose vein removal groin to ankle, and a ruptured appendix.....once i was home, I only used tylenol and naproxen for pain.   I was back to work 2 weeks after a c-section delivery.   

[ktgrok]

If she ever has to have serious pain meds again, she may need to try Dilaudid (hydromorphone is the generic).  For some reason it seems to work for people who don't process other meds well.

 

It is one of the strongest on the market, so doctors don't usually use it, but it can be a God send for those of use who metabolize meds too fast.

 

It puts me to sleep but gives me horrible nightmares when I start to drift off, so I hate to use it. When I am hurting that bad,  a temporary nightmare is worth it.  I don't think my nightmares issue  is a common side effect but one of the most common is that it tends to put people to sleep.  

 

Yes, Dilaudid works for me. Vicodin is nice too...it doesn't take all the pain away but it makes me care a whole lot less, lol. Tylenol with codeine does NOTHING for pain for me. Nothing. 

[Mom-ninja.]

I'm a redhead and have problems with anesthesia but not really pain medicine. I agree with the Aleve suggestion, and I'd suggest taking it before the adjustment. We went with Damon-style braces for my oldest, and there pretty much weren't adjustments. It seemed so much easier than when I had to go every week or every other week as a kid! 

 

Yes, we chose Damon braces as well. 

 

 

Oh and I think allergy medicine is similar.  Dd can take two Benedryls and feel absolutely no drowsiness.  If I take *one* it knocks me out.  Completely asleep. Done.

 

She used to take Claritin for her seasonal allergies, but it completely stopped working.  Zyrtec works less well now, too.  Thankfully Allegra still works for her.  I wonder if this is connected to whatever the red-headed gene does to her diminished sensitivity to pain medications?

 

Interesting now that I think about it. My red has now started allergy shots because we have tried so many allergy meds both Rx and OTC and he still suffers. So we decided it was time for shots to try and decrease his allergy symptoms. Strangely, my other ds has more allergies, but is fine when he takes Zyrtec. He is not a red head. 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion to try Aleve. I've never tried that before with him. Tylenol seems to be useless. Motrin gives him some relief but not much. Also thanks for the tip to take meds before the appt. He doesn't go back until March, and he's feeling better today. He said only one side really bothered him today. He's not able to chew well due to combo of discomfort and just getting used to having braces so it's been a lot of yogurt, cottage cheese, oatmeal, scrambled eggs, mashed potatoes, and of course ice cream. I think for next time I will have bone broth and protein shakes ready for adjustment days. 

 

My poor baby. Being a red is not easy. Let's not even get started on his very sensitive skin! I can say though that his hair is so pretty.  :001_wub:

[Joyofsixreboot]

I'm a redhead. Novacaine does zip for me. I throw up opiates. I hope I never have serious pain. Naproxen does work better for me than ibuprofen and taken before the pain starts in the first place helps.

Edited January 7, 2017 by joyofsix

[maize]

Random thought inspired by this thread:

 

Archeologists believe that the Neanderthals had red hair and that this may be where the redheaded genes among Europeans came from.

 

Maybe low pain tolerance is responsible for the Neanderthals dying out (but not before intermixing with modern humans and passing on some of their genes, helpful and otherwise :) )

[Mom-ninja.]

Random thought inspired by this thread:

 

Archeologists believe that the Neanderthals had red hair and that this may be where the redheaded genes among Europeans came from.

 

Maybe low pain tolerance is responsible for the Neanderthals dying out (but not before intermixing with modern humans and passing on some of their genes, helpful and otherwise :) )

 

It's not low pain tolerance; it's that pain meds are ineffective. 

 

I think that considering red heads don't find relief with pain meds that would mean they have a higher pain tolerance simply because they have to tolerate it. They have no other option. When ds was younger we used to wonder if he even felt pain. Like the time he had fire ants all over his feet and he just stood there watching them, but seemingly not affected until way after a normal person would have started reacting. So when he says something hurts then I know it really hurts and I would most likely not want to feel what he is feeling. 

[OneStepAtATime]

So is this why they gave me 4 epidurals and I still felt the birth and episiotomy?

[zaichiki]

Let's not even get started on his very sensitive skin! I can say though that his hair is so pretty.  :001_wub:

Yes!  Wow!  Dd jokes about her sensitive skin, but it's so true.  And even just leaning on things leaves marks that makes it looks like she's been beaten! lol

 

In the summer my redheads burn even with liberally applied amounts of SPF 70 *every hour*!  We go to the beach in the early mornings or the evenings (had to learn that lesson the hard way -- poor kids!).

[Χά�ων]

This explains so much! Thanks for the thread.

[maize]

It's not low pain tolerance; it's that pain meds are ineffective.

 

I think that considering red heads don't find relief with pain meds that would mean they have a higher pain tolerance simply because they have to tolerate it. They have no other option. When ds was younger we used to wonder if he even felt pain. Like the time he had fire ants all over his feet and he just stood there watching them, but seemingly not affected until way after a normal person would have started reacting. So when he says something hurts then I know it really hurts and I would most likely not want to feel what he is feeling.

I think I meant lower pain threshold, the stories of braces adjustments hurting for days for example would seem to have to do with actually experiencing more pain? My kids never ask for ibuprofen for more than a day after braces adjustments if that and they're always eating the next day. No red hair in this family.

 

But I was also mostly joking, except for the part about red hair genes coming from Neanderthals.

Edited January 7, 2017 by maize

[Alte Veste Academy]

No redheads here, but we get DS a huge meal replacement smoothie the day he has his braces tightened. He keeps it in the freezer and nurses it all evening. Then he usually has a smoothie for breakfast and again as long/often as necessary until the pain lessens. Everyone at the ortho office agrees cold helps relieve the pain while allowing kids to comfortably eat.

[lailasmum]

I'm a redhead and I have noticed that painkillers wear off quickly. I had a lot of pain with dental work as a teen and I still have occasional nightmares about it. it. I haven't had the need to have stronger pain relief than codeine that I really remember so not sure how I deal with the stronger stuff. With antihistamines I get extremely sleepy /drunk with nearly all of them. I've found one that allows me to function but I'd be hesitant to drive. I get a lot of skin rashes typical redhead sensitive skin.

 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Edited January 7, 2017 by lailasmum

[ktgrok]

My poor teen seems to have inherited the gene, although not a redhead. (my father isn't red either but it's recessive, he passed it to me from his mom). He had dental work and said he felt almost everything, but just figured it was easier not to say anything (he also has a high tolerance to pain...as in he just sucks it up and deals with it). He had to go back for more work and I explained the situation to the dentist, who used the stronger/longer acting stuff that time...which worked fine. 

 

Oh, and I've done the genetic testing via 23 and Me, and I do have the genes for being a ultra rapid metabolizer. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by ktgrok

[zoobie]

I think I meant lower pain threshold, the stories of braces adjustments hurting for days for example would seem to have to do with actually experiencing more pain? My kids never ask for ibuprofen for more than a day after braces adjustments if that and they're always eating the next day. No red hair in this family.

 

But I was also mostly joking, except for the part about red hair genes coming from Neanderthals.

There may be an overlap of two issues: a lower pain tolerance/higher pain sensitivity coupled with the ineffectiveness of pain meds.

 

I'm a redhead with a higher pain tolerance but have issues with anesthesia and some pain meds not working or wearing off quickly. I don't remember ever even taking Advil for braces as a teen. But when I had an accident with a deep puncture wound and needed stitches in layers in my leg, the multiple injections never numbed the area. I could still feel everything and could accurately tell where they were touching despite the doctor saying he'd given enough where I shouldn't even be able to tell I had a lower leg. The epidural wore off during my very long 3rd c-section. They didn't believe me at first, but I could accurately tell them where they were touching despite not being able to see past the drape. (That was hellish.)

[Paige]

My DS isn't a redhead but is very fair skinned with light eyes. He had about 6 baby teeth pulled years before they would have fallen out when he was younger because of severe crowding. He had no idea that the shot given to him before the procedures was supposed to be a pain killer and we found out years later that he had felt everything. He was offering sympathy to his sister who had one tooth pulled and was stunned when she said she hadn't felt anything.

 

I feel so bad for him. He's very compliant and just sat there and let the dentist do it and never complained. He now has an aversion to watermelon because they always gave him watermelon scented laughing gas. He's also the one who took a week of martial arts classes with a broken arm before we figured out it was broken, so I don't think it's a low pain threshold. 

 

When we talked with the dentist about it, he told us that it sometimes happens with very fair people but he didn't mention red hair. Do you think the correlation is really something to do with with fairness and it's just that redheads almost all have very fair skin?

[redheadmom]

I hated going to the dentist as a kid and mostly avoid it as an adult. I have woken up during oral surgery when I was supposed to be asleep. When I have sedatives I feel nothing. Most people tell me they put them to sleep. I saw a study where redheads needed 19% more anesthesia. Pain medicine is such a crap shoot. I take opiates but usually a little more often than I should. I have read that it is because of the mutation that causes the redhair. I just wish some drs didn't look at you like you were crazy if you mention it

[Ausmumof3]

I'm not a redhead but my braces were still painful a couple of days after.

[kiwik]

My dad is a redhead. If I ask him for painkillers he gives me about 1/2 what I would take. On the other hand he probably doesn't get headaches or period pain and has only had one surgery as far as I know. I did read something about redheads being good boxers because they have a higher pain threshold or more muscle and bone mass though - maybe that is the neanderthal.

[Miss Peregrine]

My dad is a redhead. If I ask him for painkillers he gives me about 1/2 what I would take. On the other hand he probably doesn't get headaches or period pain and has only had one surgery as far as I know. I did read something about redheads being good boxers because they have a higher pain threshold or more muscle and bone mass though - maybe that is the neanderthal.

That's so weird. Dd14, redhead, is seriously a super athlete. The rest of us are. . .not. lol