Education Sec. Says Homeschoolers Would Be Better Off in Public Schools: 'Not Getting Rapid Instructional Experience'

[mommyoffive]

One of my closest friends just.moved 2 hours away to a very rural area. She was amazed at the different offerings at the highschool level for her kids. They will be able to graduate highschool with 60+ course hours completed through a local state university. The school offers the dual enrolment, distance learning, independent study, etc.

 

While I am very pro homeschooling, there are things that are very hard for homeschoolers to replicate.....music classes, art classes, many extra curriculars offered, etc.

 

I am struggling with this thought right now.

[trulycrabby]

"Rapid Instructional Experience;" does this mean we have to talk really really fast during our lessons? :zombie:

[happypamama]

I am struggling with this thought right now.

But even if the local schools offer those sorts of things, it doesn't mean the kids even take them.  My school offered shop, drafting, three languages, business classes, home ec (including a cafe sort of thing where the kids prepared meals/food for sale), a few semester elective science classes like oceanography, art, and some music.  But by and large, college prep kids just didn't take those classes, especially not after ninth, maaaaaybe tenth grade, although I'm sure some of them would have been FAR more useful in my adult life than some of my required core classes.  A very few students, who were especially talented, took art or were in chorus or band, but it was very rare.  Drafting, home ec, a second language, etc. -- those just weren't done.  I don't know why, but the culture really didn't support it; I kind of always got the vibe that those classes were kind of reserved for kids who were heading directly into trades, almost like I was intruding on *their* turf.  Plus, there's the time factor.  The CP/honors/AP tracks were *busy,* with four core classes, third/fourth years of one language, maybe a fifth honors science class (my school offered both biology 2 and chemistry 2 -- most kids took chem 2 because it was easy, but a few took bio 2, and a couple of crazy people like my husband took both), plus the required gym and health and driver's ed, and extra curricular activities.  I was so busy my last few years of high school that I'm not sure where I would have put art, music, etc., plus while I liked art, I wasn't especially talented in it, and by the time you get past the first level or two, it really required some serious talent.  And, there's the reality that our honors/AP classes were weighted (and science classes even moreso), and when the top four students were quibbling about hundredths of points in order to determine who would be valedictorian because they all had well over a 4.0), and the other classes were not, so taking more actually pulled your GPA down.  And then there's even the question of whether the school can logistically schedule stuff.  If the school only offers one section of two classes, your student will have to choose between them.  So there's just no guarantee that all kids will be able to avail themselves of whatever options there actually are.  I think you'd just have to talk to the school about what the options really look like and how they really play out for whatever type of student your child is.

 

I think that comment from the Education Secretary is a bit misguided and uninformed but not necessarily terribly horribly evil.  Sure, there are parents who "homeschool" but not very effectively, and there are, of course, public schools that are not very effective either.  My local school seems like it's full of very nice people, because the area is full of nice people, but I don't really see how they could meet my children's academic needs.  Their test scores aren't great, they offer only a couple of AP classes, and they don't offer free dual enrollment, nor do they offer Latin.  My homeschool might not offer everything they could get at the public school, but it does offer an education tailored to the needs of my individual students, to the best of my ability, and it does allow for flexible scheduling.  I think the Ed. Sec. probably just doesn't know a lot about homeschooling and how it can look when it's done well.  (Plus, as someone else said, he's the head dude of school administrators, so of course he's going to be pro public schools.)  I'm not going to worry about those comments unless we start seeing threats of more regulation.  (We have enough here already.)

[Arcadia]

While looking for the interview transcript, I found another interview.

 

Looking at how he described his school experience, he just want similar for all public school kids.

"“I often think of my teacher at PS 276, Mr. Osterweil, who made his classroom a safe haven. Mr. Osterweil had his students read Shakespeare and the New York Times, and perform plays like ‘Alice and Wonderland.’ He encouraged me to keep reading, to keep solving problems, and to always challenge myself. Mr. Osterweil took us to the ballet and to the museum, exposing us to the world beyond Canarsie, Brooklyn. That is the kind of teaching I was fortunate to experience in his classroom and in others. That is the kind of teaching that saved my life.â€"

 

Also this doesn't sound bad.

"As a former social studies teacher, I know that there is intrinsic value in learning about a broad array of subjects—including social studies, civics, geography, and government; music and art; world languages; physics, chemistry, and biology; physical education and health; and coding and computer science. I have seen students make connections between these studies and their curiosities, which can lead them to discovering passions that they might not have known existed."

 

"What’s more, we know that students who have strong experiences in the arts do better in math. Art also helps our children to think creatively, and to develop language skills"

 

There are the usual policy stuff in the article as he was asked about ESSA. http://www.nclr.org/articles/annual-conference/2016/qa-john-king

 

Now back to googling for the one about homeschooling and gives the full transcript.

[Carrie12345]

Middle Girl: "He is saying words but they have no meaning."

Can't figure out how to quote quotes from my phone, but I'm pretty sure your source edited out the "some" qualifier.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I wondered the same thing.  He doesn't think homeschoolers ever design their own instruction? :smilielol5:

 

ETA: Or, maybe he doesn't think that homeschoolers have the necessary skills and contacts in the community to be able to provide the immediate feedback in everything and to be able to give our students genuine real world practice.  Which would be a fair point.  A lot of that can be made up by outsourcing to teachers *with* the relevant skills and contacts, but it's not the one-stop-shopping experience of his ideal ps.  I do wonder how many public schools are capable of providing this - some, certainly, but more than 10% or 25%?

 

These people tend to lack imagination.  Maybe public school sucked the life out of them. 

[BlsdMama]

It's hard to know exactly what he said and the context of the questions since the original write-up is behind a paywall. According to the things I've read about this, he said that parents should be able to choose homeschooling and that many homeschoolers do a great job.

 

If I'm understanding the term correctly, rapid instructional experiences involve input and ideas from different students in the class and that's obviously something homeschoolers usually miss.

 

There are drawbacks to homeschooling, just like there are drawbacks to public school. Acknowledging those drawbacks doesn't mean King or anyone else is against homeschooling.

 

 

This.  Definitely this.  I had this same discussion on Facebook yesterday.

 

 

Once upon a time I was ADAMANTLY against the government creating ANY kinds of checks and balance systems.

 

I assumed that parents who were keeping their kids at home were making that extra effort so OF COURSE they were educating the children.

 

I had had no experiences to prove otherwise.

 

 

That was even up until a few years ago.

 

Sadly, now I know better.

 

I really think I'm beginning to advocate for some kind of checks & balances.  No one should be able to cripple their children.

 

 

AND with homeschooling becoming so trendy and the term "unschooling" being sometimes generically used to say, "I'm too freaking lazy to bother," I think the number of NONschooling families keeping their kids at home is growing. :(

 

ETA: I have homeschooled in the Midwest and on the West coast (Oregon and California) and  I earnestly believe I have it better here (NE Iowa) and I think every homeschooling family should have the accountability and options that I have.

 

My supervising teacher is a former homeschooling mother.

I have access to LIPS, Barton, free Saxon, and a multitude of classes taken a la carte at the high school ( or community college if you child tests high enough)

I have access to extra-curricular activities.

My son attends CC (sem-limited classes) for free. Completely free.  His books are also covered.  He may only take 23 credits per year.

We have a homeschool lending library that is massive.

We have support staff in case I'm not able to tutor Barton.

They have math tutoring 1-2 times a week.

They offer labs to accompany our science teaching at home.

They offer art classes.

They offer Spanish.  (My kids took Russian & German at CC and those were covered classes.)

Our mock team is the best in the nation.  

 

The dedication of the teachers are above none.  They do NOT believe that we must bow to them.  Instead, they believe their job is to empower families to be strong so they are capable to teach their kids.

 

Honestly, I've been against these types of programs my entire life.  And then we moved here and I have to tell you I'm amazed.  I have no doubt this is the collaboration of many homeschooling parents (almst entirely staffed by homeschooling parents including our principal.)  But it is truly something to aim for - and, if we're going to be frank, some homeschooling parents *do* need accountability so that their children have an education.

Edited September 23, 2016 by BlsdMama

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes they don't have time for all that fluffer nutter stuff.  Everything they (college prep kids) do is like a freaking marathon. 

 

 

But even if the local schools offer those sorts of things, it doesn't mean the kids even take them.  My school offered shop, drafting, three languages, business classes, home ec (including a cafe sort of thing where the kids prepared meals/food for sale), a few semester elective science classes like oceanography, art, and some music.  But by and large, college prep kids just didn't take those classes, especially not after ninth, maaaaaybe tenth grade, although I'm sure some of them would have been FAR more useful in my adult life than some of my required core classes.  A very few students, who were especially talented, took art or were in chorus or band, but it was very rare.  Drafting, home ec, a second language, etc. -- those just weren't done.  I don't know why, but the culture really didn't support it; I kind of always got the vibe that those classes were kind of reserved for kids who were heading directly into trades, almost like I was intruding on *their* turf.  Plus, there's the time factor.  The CP/honors/AP tracks were *busy,* with four core classes, third/fourth years of one language, maybe a fifth honors science class (my school offered both biology 2 and chemistry 2 -- most kids took chem 2 because it was easy, but a few took bio 2, and a couple of crazy people like my husband took both), plus the required gym and health and driver's ed, and extra curricular activities.  I was so busy my last few years of high school that I'm not sure where I would have put art, music, etc., plus while I liked art, I wasn't especially talented in it, and by the time you get past the first level or two, it really required some serious talent.  And, there's the reality that our honors/AP classes were weighted (and science classes even moreso), and when the top four students were quibbling about hundredths of points in order to determine who would be valedictorian because they all had well over a 4.0), and the other classes were not, so taking more actually pulled your GPA down.  And then there's even the question of whether the school can logistically schedule stuff.  If the school only offers one section of two classes, your student will have to choose between them.  So there's just no guarantee that all kids will be able to avail themselves of whatever options there actually are.  I think you'd just have to talk to the school about what the options really look like and how they really play out for whatever type of student your child is.

 

I think that comment from the Education Secretary is a bit misguided and uninformed but not necessarily terribly horribly evil.  Sure, there are parents who "homeschool" but not very effectively, and there are, of course, public schools that are not very effective either.  My local school seems like it's full of very nice people, because the area is full of nice people, but I don't really see how they could meet my children's academic needs.  Their test scores aren't great, they offer only a couple of AP classes, and they don't offer free dual enrollment, nor do they offer Latin.  My homeschool might not offer everything they could get at the public school, but it does offer an education tailored to the needs of my individual students, to the best of my ability, and it does allow for flexible scheduling.  I think the Ed. Sec. probably just doesn't know a lot about homeschooling and how it can look when it's done well.  (Plus, as someone else said, he's the head dude of school administrators, so of course he's going to be pro public schools.)  I'm not going to worry about those comments unless we start seeing threats of more regulation.  (We have enough here already.)

 

[MinivanMom]

Certainly home schooling does not have everything that excellent public schooling offers. However, it is also true that public schooling (even excellent, and much of it is not excellent) does not have everything that excellent, intentional home schooling offers. I'm in both worlds. We home school our kids through 8th grade and then put them in the public school for high school. I tutor at the high school, mostly math. And I often think of advantages of home schooling that public school students miss out on. Like, not rapid instruction, but lingering, deepening investigation, revisiting a topic through the year or over the years as abilities grow. Or studying whatever you would like, particularly if family finances allow for online classes taught by experts who can focus on their subject and not public school bureaucracy. Sleeping in. No busy work. Being responsible for your own learning. Living a lifestyle of learning as just part of who you are.

 

So my junior in high school is in a rapid instruction environment, and she has had some really good classes/teachers. I'm sure she learns from being around studious peers. But she has given up Latin as it is not offered in her school (and there is no time to add it on the side, though we tried). She can't take AP Euro, which she would love after all of our history studies, as her school doesn't offer it. She has to waste time taking a health class requirement. As a middle-of-the-road math student, she has had some poor teachers and is not expected to understand deeply--much higher expectations in our home school. While this man's comments might be fair, the opposite is just as fair--public schoolers miss out on many of the amazing benefits of home schooling. And his job is to focus on enriching the educational experience of the students he is responsible for (public schoolers), not to judge the educational experience of those he is not responsible for (home schoolers).

 

I think we all strive for excellence here at WTM. Keep striving.

 

Is this true? Maybe this is off-topic, but I would regard the Sec of Education as overseeing all education at a federal level. I don't think it would be his role to direct or dictate the standards or methods of instruction for those who homeschool, but isn't he ultimately responsible to ensure that all American children have access to a basic education?

 

I know that at a state level, our State Superintendent of Education absolutely has responsibility for students who are homeschooled, as well as those attending private or religious schools. Homeschoolers register with the state, provide evidence of at least a high school education, keep attendance, and test annually. The oversight for private schools is more rigorous than that. The law limits the State Superintendent's ability to dictate and direct the type of education offered privately, but there is definitely oversight of those outside the public system. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Google directed me to "rapid instructional design." Seems to have been first developed in the early 2000s, and emphasizes practice, feedback, and experience over presentations.

 

The four components are:

*Preparation (giving a big picture introduction and arousing interest),

*Presentation (which is supposed to be interactive and discovery-based instead of lecture-based),

*Practice (the chance for the learner to actually *do* what they are learning and receive real-time feedback), and

*Performance (the chance for the learner to use the new skill in a real world task, ideally meaning an actual real thing done in the real world itself, as opposed to a real world task adapted for use in the classroom).

 

And this approach is supposed to speed up learning and allow for more rapid progress.

This is the latest jargon, but it is another way of handcuffing teachers.  Dd is in an AP Physics class like this.  They have an introduction, then do a lab, use the lab data to sort of "discover" the piece to be taught.  Most students are clueless and have no idea what they are supposed to be learning.  Although, dd is not the most prepared for this class (math is not her strong suit but she got into this because she doesn't take math at this school and her previous science teachers recommended her)  she is holding her own in this class because she "cheats" ... she reads the textbook.  These kids are all deer in the headlights.  They are craving a lecture to EXPLAIN it so that they UNDERSTAND it. 

 

At this same high school is a Calculus teacher who has won tons of teaching awards, is beloved by students, has an exceptionally high success rate with his students doing well on the AP exams (way higher than any other teacher in our area.)  He teaches Calculus really well.  Everyone knows it.  Except for the administrators who downgrade him for for his teaching style on not following this formula.  He actually teaches Calculus.  He doesn't expect them to figure it out on their own or to pick it up from each other.  Parents fight to get their kids in his class, yet his superiors can't wait for him to retire and take his "old school ways" with him. 

 

I'm not saying that this does not have value, but sometimes it is a bit much to expect people to just figure it out.  After all, the people who did figure it out in the first place are famous ... it was an exceptional accomplishment. 

 

Back to the original article... a tempest in a teapot if you ask me.  I don't trust HSLDA to do anything but manufacture alarm to keep the membership $$ rolling in. 

[Bluegoat]

It sounds to me like he is a good teacher who values education.  I think that from the perspective of someone in his position, a real downside of homeschooling will always be that it simply isn't possible for all families - it will never be a social solution for education.  Government might, and possibly even should, offer more support for it, but there will also need to be some other option.

 

And if that option is really good, I suspect we'd simply find more people would use it and not so many would hiomeschool.  For someone who wants to see public schools be made really exceptional for all kids needs, homeschooling is going to look like a minor option - not necessarily a bad or unnecesssary one for some, but not the path to a well-educated nation.

[Guest]

What "range of options..."? You go to the assigned school with the assigned teachers studying the assigned subjects. Again, what range of options?

King, while on the NY Board of Regents, was instrumental in having BOCES offer virtual AP for students whose school districts refuse to offer that level of coursework. Unfortunately he didnt get it funded, and the same schools refuse to pay for it out of the local budget.He has the right idea....mismatch between student subgroups and course offerings exist, but he doesnt have the political pull to fix that. Zip code still matters.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[8filltheheart]

This. Definitely this. I had this same discussion on Facebook yesterday.

 

 

Once upon a time I was ADAMANTLY against the government creating ANY kinds of checks and balance systems.

 

I assumed that parents who were keeping their kids at home were making that extra effort so OF COURSE they were educating the children.

 

I had had no experiences to prove otherwise.

 

 

That was even up until a few years ago.

 

Sadly, now I know better.

 

I really think I'm beginning to advocate for some kind of checks & balances. No one should be able to cripple their children.

 

 

AND with homeschooling becoming so trendy and the term "unschooling" being sometimes generically used to say, "I'm too freaking lazy to bother," I think the number of NONschooling families keeping their kids at home is growing. :(

 

ETA: I have homeschooled in the Midwest and on the West coast (Oregon and California) and I earnestly believe I have it better here (NE Iowa) and I think every homeschooling family should have the accountability and options that I have.

 

My supervising teacher is a former homeschooling mother.

I have access to LIPS, Barton, free Saxon, and a multitude of classes taken a la carte at the high school ( or community college if you child tests high enough)

I have access to extra-curricular activities.

My son attends CC (sem-limited classes) for free. Completely free. His books are also covered. He may only take 23 credits per year.

We have a homeschool lending library that is massive.

We have support staff in case I'm not able to tutor Barton.

They have math tutoring 1-2 times a week.

They offer labs to accompany our science teaching at home.

They offer art classes.

They offer Spanish. (My kids took Russian & German at CC and those were covered classes.)

Our mock team is the best in the nation.

 

The dedication of the teachers are above none. They do NOT believe that we must bow to them. Instead, they believe their job is to empower families to be strong so they are capable to teach their kids.

 

Honestly, I've been against these types of programs my entire life. And then we moved here and I have to tell you I'm amazed. I have no doubt this is the collaboration of many homeschooling parents (almst entirely staffed by homeschooling parents including our principal.) But it is truly something to aim for - and, if we're going to be frank, some homeschooling parents *do* need accountability so that their children have an education.

What you are describing isn't even offered in our ps system. The kids here are all on one of several computer teaching programs like Discovery Education or edmentum, etc. The kids watch the lectures on their school provided laptops (no textbooks for subjects) and complete the online assignments. (Even Kers are given iPads for their assignments.) I have had friends whose kids are in "the best high school in the county" and when the kids ask the teacher to explain things (in math and science in particular) they don't understand, they are told to rewatch the video.

 

That is the problem with any sort of blanket education comments. There is no similarity between school districts. It is impossible to compare Thomas Jefferson High School in No. VA with your avg high school someplace like Mississippi. Just as they are not at all similar, our homeschool will not be representative of any other homeschool.

Edited September 23, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[shawthorne44]

I went to a really good school, supposedly.   It was one of those areas with overpriced homes because of the good schools.  I even had some excellent teachers.  Some miserable teachers, but the good outweighed the bad.  But, something like this is not a normal public school experience.  

 

took us to the ballet and to the museum, exposing us to the world beyond Canarsie, Brooklyn

 

 

 

 

The things he is talking about is much more likely to be the homeschool experience.  

[mommyoffive]

This.  Definitely this.  I had this same discussion on Facebook yesterday.

 

 

Once upon a time I was ADAMANTLY against the government creating ANY kinds of checks and balance systems.

 

I assumed that parents who were keeping their kids at home were making that extra effort so OF COURSE they were educating the children.

 

I had had no experiences to prove otherwise.

 

 

That was even up until a few years ago.

 

Sadly, now I know better.

 

I really think I'm beginning to advocate for some kind of checks & balances.  No one should be able to cripple their children.

 

 

AND with homeschooling becoming so trendy and the term "unschooling" being sometimes generically used to say, "I'm too freaking lazy to bother," I think the number of NONschooling families keeping their kids at home is growing. :(

 

ETA: I have homeschooled in the Midwest and on the West coast (Oregon and California) and  I earnestly believe I have it better here (NE Iowa) and I think every homeschooling family should have the accountability and options that I have.

 

My supervising teacher is a former homeschooling mother.

I have access to LIPS, Barton, free Saxon, and a multitude of classes taken a la carte at the high school ( or community college if you child tests high enough)

I have access to extra-curricular activities.

My son attends CC (sem-limited classes) for free. Completely free.  His books are also covered.  He may only take 23 credits per year.

We have a homeschool lending library that is massive.

We have support staff in case I'm not able to tutor Barton.

They have math tutoring 1-2 times a week.

They offer labs to accompany our science teaching at home.

They offer art classes.

They offer Spanish.  (My kids took Russian & German at CC and those were covered classes.)

Our mock team is the best in the nation.  

 

The dedication of the teachers are above none.  They do NOT believe that we must bow to them.  Instead, they believe their job is to empower families to be strong so they are capable to teach their kids.

 

Honestly, I've been against these types of programs my entire life.  And then we moved here and I have to tell you I'm amazed.  I have no doubt this is the collaboration of many homeschooling parents (almst entirely staffed by homeschooling parents including our principal.)  But it is truly something to aim for - and, if we're going to be frank, some homeschooling parents *do* need accountability so that their children have an education.

 

That sounds great.  I am confused is it from the Public school or is it a co-op or some sort?

[creekland]

 Mr. Osterweil took us to the ballet and to the museum, exposing us to the world beyond Canarsie, Brooklyn. 

 

With today's budget, schools usually can't afford much in field trips.  I'm glad they take those they do, but I seriously doubt many hit a ballet.  Ours tries for Gettysburg and DC - battlefield and museums respectively.

 

By homeschooling, we took our kids to oodles of places, volcanoes, deserts, oceans (under the water too), mountains, museums, National/State/Provincial parks, etc.  By going during the school year we saved a bit of money (off season) and we never had to worry about missing school.

 

Before homeschooling we took our kids out of school for a month when we visited Hawaii.  My youngest's class was learning about volcanoes (from a book and videos).  My guy was at Volcanoes NP (and e-mailed back a report plus pics from hiking the lava fields, craters, and visiting the museum).  Later that year (while homeschooling - the month off with my kids returning ahead of their classmates convinced us we could do it), we also visited Rainier, Mt St Helens, and Lassen seeing the succession of volcanoes.  (Rainier is pre-recent eruption, Mt St Helens had a relatively recent eruption, Lassen's eruption had been roughly 100 years earlier.)  I wonder who learned more about volcanoes? 

 

We did skip the ballet... neither of us parent are ballet lovers.  Such is life.  There are gaps in any education.

 

Intentional homeschooling can provide huge benefits and well educated kids.  Unintentional homeschooling or non-schooling kids might be better off in school.  Teachers tend to (usually) be better than "here kid, there's a workbook for you, now leave me alone and do your work" or worse.

[FaithManor]

I went to a really good school, supposedly. It was one of those areas with overpriced homes because of the good schools. I even had some excellent teachers. Some miserable teachers, but the good outweighed the bad. But, something like this is not a normal public school experience.

 

 

 

The things he is talking about is much more likely to be the homeschool experience.

I agree. Our local school cut the budget for field trips and cultural events a LONG time ago. I have tutored kids whose experiences are so limited that they do not know what the phrase "field trip" means. Very sad.

 

Again unequal access means that the idealistic perspective is foreign to a disproportionate number of students in the US.

[FaithManor]

 

By homeschooling, we took our kids to oodles of places, volcanoes, deserts, oceans (under the water too), mountains, museums, National/State/Provincial parks.

 

We did skip the ballet... neither of us parent are ballet lovers. Such is life. There are gaps in any education.

 

Intentional homeschooling can provide huge benefits and well educated kids. Unintentional homeschooling or non-schooling kids might be better off in school. Teachers tend to (usually) be better than "here kid, there's a workbook for you, now leave me alone and do your work" or worse.

Agree completely and the off season for travels was wonderful. I just loved having museums and such all to ourselves.

 

We hit the ballet once, the DSO more than once, the DIA....our big glaeing gap is that chess is our sport, LOL!

[creekland]

Agree completely and the off season for travels was wonderful. I just loved having museums and such all to ourselves.

 

We hit the ballet once, the DSO more than once, the DIA....our big glaeing gap is that chess is our sport, LOL!

 

Gap?  Chess was our sport too.  My guys did quite well.  No regrets.  

 

Non-competitively we also had hiking, kayaking/canoeing, scuba, geocaching, fishing, pony riding, and would have had more sailing (hubby's love) if we'd been able to.  Team sports aren't our thing (once past elementary aged community soccer league) and as said before, no regrets.  No regrets on skipping the ballet either.  So many possibilities, so little time.  One has to pick and choose.

[Pen]

I am not against oversight for homeschoolers. I would not be okay with yearly testing UNLESS the measure of progress was comparing the students' scores to their scores from previous years. (Which is consequently what I think should happen with the testing of students in the schools as well.)

 

 

Be careful with that.   We had that at one point such that parents of kids who had 99th %ile one year and went down to 96th %ile in a following year were being told they had to put their kids back into public school. So the local home school word of mouth was to try to get the kids to do badly on their first test and improve a bit with following ones, rather than to do their best.

[Arcadia]

With today's budget, schools usually can't afford much in field trips. I'm glad they take those they do, but I seriously doubt many hit a ballet. Ours tries for Gettysburg and DC - battlefield and museums respectively

I see his opinion as saying that he had a great public school education and that forms his ideal. He is not saying that public schools are equally good or horrid. My district public school has a 8th grade field trip to DC. Also the schools brought the kids on many field trips that parents may not bring, for example Monterey Bay Aquarium, The Tech Museum, Zoos, Hiller Aviation Museum.

 

My kids went to many places but some of their public school classmates and homeschool friends went nowhere with parents. Also there are not many homeschool days at museums and other places while schools are usually able to get free entry as a school group. It really is dependent on public schools and homeschool parents. My kids went to the ballet and to an opera as public school field trips for free, the same performance cost quite a bit to the public.

[*Lulu*]

Be careful with that. We had that at one point such that parents of kids who had 99th %ile one year and went down to 96th %ile in a following year were being told they had to put their kids back into public school. So the local home school word of mouth was to try to get the kids to do badly on their first test and improve a bit with following ones, rather than to do their best.

Well that is craptastic.

 

That sounds like the product of more box checking than critical thinking.

[Crimson Wife]

I have no problem with accountability measures so long as they apply equally to classroom-based private schools and home schools. If you're going to require standardized testing or portfolios or curriculum plans or whatever, require those from ALL non-government schools or NONE of them. Don't force red tape onto homeschoolers that are not also forced upon private school administrators. It's a fairness issue.

[FaithManor]

Oh Creekland, no regrets here and like you canoing, kayaking, hiking has all been a part of our lives. Hey we do ski!

 

The gap? My poor boys can't catch a ball to save their lives. LOL. In that regard potentially a little P.E. might have been wise!

 

:D

[Farrar]

Is this true? Maybe this is off-topic, but I would regard the Sec of Education as overseeing all education at a federal level. I don't think it would be his role to direct or dictate the standards or methods of instruction for those who homeschool, but isn't he ultimately responsible to ensure that all American children have access to a basic education?

 

I know that at a state level, our State Superintendent of Education absolutely has responsibility for students who are homeschooled, as well as those attending private or religious schools. Homeschoolers register with the state, provide evidence of at least a high school education, keep attendance, and test annually. The oversight for private schools is more rigorous than that. The law limits the State Superintendent's ability to dictate and direct the type of education offered privately, but there is definitely oversight of those outside the public system. 

 

From a general standpoint, yes, his job is to be concerned with everyone's education and to generally advise the president on executive policy and speeches and positions regarding all kinds of education at every level. More specifically though, the biggest task of the Department of Education is overseeing the federal student loans program for college - as in, that's where the majority of their money and staff is, at least, as I understand it. And they have a lot of input and control over some things (NCLB, school lunch requirements, federal grants for special education...) and almost none about things that you would think (at least, if you knew nothing about the American history of education policy) like actual curriculum, for example.

 

His comments mean something, I guess... they're a snapshot of where the Democratic party (as the one in power in the executive branch, who appointed him) stands on homeschooling to some extent - which is to say, accepting but uneasy. And about the sort of advice about homeschooling that the president gets. But he has no real power over any homeschool rules because the Dept. of Ed. doesn't dictate anything to do with homeschoolers - primarily because there are no government funds attached to us. And he's obviously powerless about legislation for homeschoolers because that originates entirely at the state level. You're so right that a state superintendent has a lot more say and influence because it's their job usually to carry out whatever laws there are about homeschooling in the state.

[Farrar]

While looking for the interview transcript, I found another interview.

 

Looking at how he described his school experience, he just want similar for all public school kids.

"“I often think of my teacher at PS 276, Mr. Osterweil, who made his classroom a safe haven. Mr. Osterweil had his students read Shakespeare and the New York Times, and perform plays like ‘Alice and Wonderland.’ He encouraged me to keep reading, to keep solving problems, and to always challenge myself. Mr. Osterweil took us to the ballet and to the museum, exposing us to the world beyond Canarsie, Brooklyn. That is the kind of teaching I was fortunate to experience in his classroom and in others. That is the kind of teaching that saved my life.â€"

 

The deep, deep irony of people who support the utter standardization of schooling, the increased or continued testing of students, and the general education focus on standards who then tell these sorts of anecdotes about their own education outside the classroom by teachers who showed creativity and whimsy and so forth is never lost on me. I'm telling you... they all do it. Not a single one has a great, "the teacher who made us take standardized tests all the time" story or a really heartwarming "teacher who never drifted off the curriculum script" story. And yet, they clearly don't get the irony themselves a bit.  :glare:

[kiwik]

He had a great teacher who probably dedicated his own time and money to his class. From what I have read he wouldn't be allowed to do that in the US now. I can't see NZ teachers agreeing to scripts - they don't even use a specific curriculum except the national curriculum guidelines.

 

If everyone could have a wonderful, joyful and appropriate public education that would be great but they don't.

 

I disagree with the poster who says preference is homeschooling, private then public. Most people seem to prefer not to be involved in educating their kids.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sorry guys, but the focus on 'intentional' homeschooling is cracking me up. How many people wake up one day to find they've accidentally been homeschooling their kids the last few years ? 

 

Intentional just means 'we made a decision to educate our children at home.' That decision can play out in a myriad of ways, not all of which will  involve the standard of 'excellence' people commonly applaud here. 

 

I have a kid in PS, so I know the pros and the cons. It's lovely that they are all zooming along on the super-highway of learning ( all except the ones who got left behind, that is). Doesn't make me in the slightest feel I'm doing ds a service meandering along the bywaters instead. 

 

So far as jargon goes, if you can't put it into plain English, it doesn't exist. Part of my current studies is learning how to explain complicated statistical analyses in plain English, so that it is accessible to all, so if a statistician can do it, an education exec certainly can.

 

LMAO...That's a good point. 

 

This really does crack me up. 

[LMD]

I, unfortunately, have also seen the homsechoolers who are not doing a good job at all. I know one family whose son didn't read until he was 12. He was read to, and talked to, and trusted, and at 16, is now an incredibly good reader, and is very well read. That isn't the situation I'm talking about. His parents were still intentional, though it would have looked "bad" to people on the outside. I'm talking about kids who can barely read at all at 18 years old, and are doing 3rd grade math. I'm talking about kids who have no fire or excitement about learning or discovering. I'm talking about kids with very poor social skills, and very little "broadening of the mind." It is a reality that some people aren't doing well, and I worry for their children.

 

But I don't know what the solution is.

I know b&m schooled kids in the same situation. 15 year olds who's 'book list' consists of one craptastic, 190pg novel and a movie. I don't think the teacher knows what 'list' means. Same kid is having to self learn math on khan academy because the gaps are horrendous. This kid is lucky, his parents pay for a tutor who makes him read!

5 year olds who use 'apps across the curriculum' on their compulsory, parent supplied ipad, in their 'community classrooms'. Aka 60 kids aged 5-9 in one room with 2-3 teachers and almost completely unfettered ipad access. Great idea.

 

As for standards in the homeschooling world, I think that we can be intentional about encouraging a culture of high standards. We organise high quality events - for example my kids will be performing Shakespeare with some friends next month. We talk about education at meetups, answer questions honestly, share resources and make it clear that education is a priority. I bluntly answer that, yes you need to teach all the way to and including algebra - then I encourage with resources. I have given away many resources and much time to help people struggling. I haven't encountered a really neglectful situation yet though...

 

We also have plenty of students discussion/bouncing ideas off each other here in my homeschool. I can't teach anything to one without another butting in ;)

[happypamama]

I know b&m schooled kids in the same situation. 15 year olds who's 'book list' consists of one craptastic, 190pg novel and a movie. I don't think the teacher knows what 'list' means. Same kid is having to self learn math on khan academy because the gaps are horrendous. This kid is lucky, his parents pay for a tutor who makes him read!

5 year olds who use 'apps across the curriculum' on their compulsory, parent supplied ipad, in their 'community classrooms'. Aka 60 kids aged 5-9 in one room with 2-3 teachers and almost completely unfettered ipad access. Great idea.

 

We also have plenty of students discussion/bouncing ideas off each other here in my homeschool. I can't teach anything to one without another butting in ;)

Hahaha, yes to this!

 

I keep hearing about situations similar to the iPad issue you described, and about kids who can't/aren't reading or able to do the math.  It's both scary and comforting to me.  Scary because it sounds like for the few schools where tech is a boon, the icing on an already good cake, there are so many others where kids are just not learning, and where is that going to leave our nation?  And comforting in a very selfish way because, well, that's fewer people my kids will have to compete with for scholarships/jobs/etc.  I mean, I'm never going to say I'm as good as some really amazing teachers, but my kids can read, write a coherent sentence, and do math pretty decently.  I worry that the bar is lowering so much.

[Ali in OR]

Is this true? Maybe this is off-topic, but I would regard the Sec of Education as overseeing all education at a federal level. I don't think it would be his role to direct or dictate the standards or methods of instruction for those who homeschool, but isn't he ultimately responsible to ensure that all American children have access to a basic education?

 

I know that at a state level, our State Superintendent of Education absolutely has responsibility for students who are homeschooled, as well as those attending private or religious schools. Homeschoolers register with the state, provide evidence of at least a high school education, keep attendance, and test annually. The oversight for private schools is more rigorous than that. The law limits the State Superintendent's ability to dictate and direct the type of education offered privately, but there is definitely oversight of those outside the public system. 

 

Good question, and thanks Farrar for filling in a bit more on what happens at the federal level. I had to actually go look up what our deputy superintendent of education/Board of Education is responsible for here in Oregon, and it does not include home schooling or private schools--just the public schools. But the state legislature does establish guidelines that home schoolers have to follow (declare intent to homeschool when kid is 6, testing in grades 3,5,8, and 10). We report that information to Educationional Service Districts which do fall under the realm of the deputy superintendent, but s/he can't do anything other than make sure we follow guidelines from the legislature. There's a pretty active home school lobbying group that makes sure legislators don't impinge on current home school freedoms. The Oregon State Board of Education's mission from their website:

 

The Oregon State Board of Education works to ensure that every Oregon public school student has equal access to high quality educational services that promote lifelong learning and prepare students for their next steps following high school graduation including college, work, and citizenship.

[MinivanMom]

From a general standpoint, yes, his job is to be concerned with everyone's education and to generally advise the president on executive policy and speeches and positions regarding all kinds of education at every level. More specifically though, the biggest task of the Department of Education is overseeing the federal student loans program for college - as in, that's where the majority of their money and staff is, at least, as I understand it. And they have a lot of input and control over some things (NCLB, school lunch requirements, federal grants for special education...) and almost none about things that you would think (at least, if you knew nothing about the American history of education policy) like actual curriculum, for example.

 

His comments mean something, I guess... they're a snapshot of where the Democratic party (as the one in power in the executive branch, who appointed him) stands on homeschooling to some extent - which is to say, accepting but uneasy. And about the sort of advice about homeschooling that the president gets. But he has no real power over any homeschool rules because the Dept. of Ed. doesn't dictate anything to do with homeschoolers - primarily because there are no government funds attached to us. And he's obviously powerless about legislation for homeschoolers because that originates entirely at the state level. You're so right that a state superintendent has a lot more say and influence because it's their job usually to carry out whatever laws there are about homeschooling in the state.

 

Okay, that makes sense. I was thinking of the Sec of Education as more of a figurehead who would be concerned with leading and supporting education policy in general. In that sense, I don't think it's at all strange for him to be publicly expressing opinions about home education. I do regard it as his business to lead in that sense. 

 

I know that in our state the overwhelming majority of money and staff is devoted to overseeing public education. But our state superintendent still has the responsibility to carry out state homeschooling laws which include overseeing homeschoolers. No, she can't do more than carry out the laws passed by the legislature, but that's also true in her supervision of private and religious schools.

[Crimson Wife]

Sorry guys, but the focus on 'intentional' homeschooling is cracking me up. How many people wake up one day to find they've accidentally been homeschooling their kids the last few years ?

 

 

That's not what he means by "intentional".

 

There are unfortunately far too many families that are educationally neglecting their children under the the guise of "homeschooling" (and from what I've seen IRL most of those would claim to be "unschooling"). There was a recent thread on the High School subforum about an 18 y.o. whose parents let him watch TV and play video games all day instead of any schoolwork. I wish I could say that he's some real anomaly but sadly stories like his, while not super common, do represent a real problem.

 

I don't have a problem with the state requiring periodic standardized testing of homeschoolers so long as they require the same of children in private schools.

[creekland]

Sorry guys, but the focus on 'intentional' homeschooling is cracking me up. How many people wake up one day to find they've accidentally been homeschooling their kids the last few years ? 

 

Intentional just means 'we made a decision to educate our children at home.' That decision can play out in a myriad of ways, not all of which will  involve the standard of 'excellence' people commonly applaud here. 

 

No, what some of us are talking about are those who decide they don't want to get up that early in the morning - or make sure their kids get up - or they want their older kids to watch younger ones - or work (family job, legal or illegal) or similar and decide that they are "homeschooling."  The problem isn't their schedule (late mornings or whatever), it's that they never actually get around to the schooling part in any way, shape, or fashion.  They merely use the excuse of "homeschooling."  They aren't even really unschooling.  They are non-schooling.

 

Those situations do not educate the kids to any level, much less excellence.  Many times the parents are more interested in their own drug use or similar.  PA has regulations, so we can (sort of) crack down on these, but it can be really tough to actually do so and there are quite a few kids who fall through the cracks, esp if mom/dad stay away from the law with other parts of their lives.  When/if the kids end up in public school they are way, way behind and I'm not meaning due to what was covered or not.  For them, very little if anything has been covered.

 

That's the worst case scenario.  There are better cases that still aren't good.  In those mom/dad will buy their kids workbooks from Walmart and expect the kid to do those calling it "good enough."  There's nothing else educational going on and the kid may or may not have done the workbooks correctly.  There's usually little supervision or stimulating discussions or extra curriculars or rabbit trails or whatever.  Video games might be common...  I suspect many public schools are better options with these folks too.

[creekland]

Non-schoolers aren't homeschoolers. 

 

They claim they are legally.  Others see them as homeschoolers since they claim it.

[Violet Crown]

Can't figure out how to quote quotes from my phone, but I'm pretty sure your source edited out the "some" qualifier.

??? My source was the OP.

 

Anyway, adding "some" in a strategic place can't make the phrase "rapid instructional experience" any less subliterate cant.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Violet Crown

[MinivanMom]

Non-schoolers aren't homeschoolers. 

 

I understand that non-schoolers aren't homeschoolers to most of us who homeschool, but how do you argue that distinction to public school officials? If someone is "homeschooling" legally under their state's homeschool laws then they are absolutely homeschoolers to public school officials, even if they are actually non-schoolers.

[Farrar]

Educational neglect is not okay. Homeschoolers are more vulnerable to it because there are so few safety nets for homeschooled kids. I do think those kids are "homeschooled" from a legal standpoint just like a kid who is being educationally neglected by a public school is still a public school student. I love the idea that such cases are rare. It's my personal experience that they're rare. However, any assertions one way or the other are basically unfounded. We know next to nothing about homeschoolers because there's nowhere that fully tracks homeschoolers. 

 

I think his "very intentional" statement was meant to be more than that though. I think it was meant to imply that you need to be an educational expert to really do it right. And that would include being up on the latest methods and curricula and so forth. I know I'm reading a bit into it, but I think he's not actually referring to people who don't do anything, or even to unschoolers (who, IME, have a lot of intentionality) but to people who, from the standpoint of recently trained teachers, "don't know what they're doing." I think it was a form of the old concept that parents can't teach their kids to read because they'll mess them up or do it wrong or something. Which I think we all think is nonsense.

[Farrar]

Given the lack of info, we may as well assume a normal distribution, in which some people are doing dreadfully, the bulk of us are doing OK and some of us are doing awesomely. This is what we tend to see anecdotally.

 

I'm not going to assume a badly skewed distribution on the basis of nothing.

 

I would argue that it's all over the map anecdotally. Certainly, the preponderance of horror stories on Homeschoolers Anonymous would be one anecdotal take. Experiences more like mine and yours would be another. I have almost no personal experience with anyone I would consider engaged in educational neglect. But other people on this forum have had yet another experience - knowing a lot more people who they would consider to be engaged in educational neglect. I'm not assuming that there are masses of parents doing a terrible job - I think it's probably likely that such cases are the minority. However, in the absence of data, we don't know for sure that it's not more common than we think - instead of one homeschool family in a hundred, it could be more like one family in ten. One thing we know from stories about families using homeschooling as a cover for neglect is that those families aren't typically tied in to as many homeschool social networks, which means our anecdotal experience of other homeschoolers may not match the reality of a true random sample. But who knows.

 

I think also that it's likely that homeschoolers would defy a random distribution. We do know that homeschooling, historically is more white than the general population (at least in the US), that it's more evangelical than the general population... Homeschoolers are outside the box people. I think a good look at homeschooling data might reveal all kinds of things that would surprise us and that would be some pretty skewed numbers in terms of outlooks or experiences that aren't as common in the general public.

 

Mostly though, I'm sick of homeschoolers trying to jump up immediately to say that educational neglect isn't a homeschool problem or that it hardly ever happens. The defensiveness. It's real. It's a thing. I wish we knew more about the real numbers behind it. I don't know how I feel about increased government oversight - most of the methods of oversight seem absurdly loose such as to be pointless or absurdly open to uneven, capricious enforcement. But I'm not wholly against it in theory.

[BlsdMama]

That sounds great.  I am confused is it from the Public school or is it a co-op or some sort?

 

 

Publicly funded homeschool assistance program.  Our district found that with Iowa's open enrollment laws, it was beneficial to offer a strong assistance program - because, I would guess,  dual enrolled students do get some of the funding but use very little of the resources, kwim?  They recoup $$ they would have missed out on (though a reduced amount) plus get open enrolled students from other districts.

[DawnM]

My state of residence requires testing.  As much as I hate these tests I do think this is one way to demonstrate that some standards are being met.  If they can pass these tests with the methods they are using then what is there to argue about.  KWIM? 

 

 

I was so bad about this.  Our state "requires" testing every year.

 

I didn't do it.  I tested twice between 2005-2015.  Yup, officially twice.

 

I knew where my kids stood.  I had a copy of the Woodcock-Johnson to give them should I be audited, but overall, I didn't bother.

 

I was never audited and never questioned.  My kids are all in school now, oldest has a 4.0 in his community college program so far (I am not thinking he can maintain that forever, but it is a nice start!)  Middle is in honors classes in public high school for the second year.  Youngest is in school for the first time and getting 100% in three of his 5 classes, and 90+ in the other two.  He is a madman when it comes to wanting perfect scores.  He didn't get that from us!  haha!

 

Anyway, all that to say, I don't think we were as intentional as we could have been.  They are doing well DESPITE my lack of intentionality.

 

What I did teach them was that I value education.  Reading books is learning, even if it is enjoyable, and having goals is important.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, homeschooling is not legal in Germany, but I'm not sure if you meant that is how they interpret our reasons for homeschooling or if you are saying as a last resort they homeschool.  They don't homeschool.

 

Interestingly, this last trip I got some of the best reactions ever towards homeschooling from pretty much everyone.  There was one neighbor guy who at first didn't quite get what that was,. but everyone else thought it was great.  I was also surprised by how many people claimed the educational system was going down hill (watered down, dumbed down, were some of the comments).  No clue how true that is. 

 

Even my MIL has lightened up. 

 

Don't know if there is something in the water there or what.  :laugh:

Could this just be the European influence into American minds? My son attends a German "Saturday school". People there think I am nuts for homeschooling him. I had one person tell me that in Germany the thought is you go to public school, if you can't cut it in public school then you go to private school, if you can't cut it in private school you are homeschooled. In other words, homeschooling is the last resort if your child can't cut it anywhere else. To me America is the exact opposite. Those who can homeschool do. If you can't homeschool the next best option is private schools. If you can't afford those and you can't homeschool, then you send your child to public schools. 

 

We see European influences all the time in politics and I see this as no different. Testing will not prove that my child is on par with his peers. Testing will prove that he is good or bad at taking tests. The only way to really see how well a child is doing is to watch them day in and day out to see the whole picture. I do use testing when I am homeschooling, but it isn't the only thing I look at when determining how well my child is doing. I am personally glad that I live in a very free state to homeschool. I wish all states were like this. We don't test or anything. 

 

Is there such thing as educational neglect? Yes and homeschoolers can fall into that, but I don't call those people homeschoolers. To be a homeschooler to me is an intent to teach your child. It infuriates me when I see news stories about some parent who could care less about their child and then news story says "and the parents homeschooled". No homeschooling means you set out intending to school your child how you see fit. Whether that is unschooling, box learning, or whatever. There is a plan in place. Maybe that would be a way to track homeschoolers if you wanted to see that they were teaching. Make it so you see their plan. That would certainly tell you more then a test that could be skewed for any number of reasons. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was so bad about this.  Our state "requires" testing every year.

 

I didn't do it.  I tested twice between 2005-2015.  Yup, officially twice.

 

I knew where my kids stood.  I had a copy of the Woodcock-Johnson to give them should I be audited, but overall, I didn't bother.

 

I was never audited and never questioned.  My kids are all in school now, oldest has a 4.0 in his community college program so far (I am not thinking he can maintain that forever, but it is a nice start!)  Middle is in honors classes in public high school for the second year.  Youngest is in school for the first time and getting 100% in three of his 5 classes, and 90+ in the other two.  He is a madman when it comes to wanting perfect scores.  He didn't get that from us!  haha!

 

Anyway, all that to say, I don't think we were as intentional as we could have been.  They are doing well DESPITE my lack of intentionality.

 

What I did teach them was that I value education.  Reading books is learning, even if it is enjoyable, and having goals is important.  

 

Uh no I have to send them the results every year it is required.  I have to communicate with them about 6 times per year.  The rest of the regs are completely stupid, but the testing at least means something (to someone). 

[DawnM]

Uh no I have to send them the results every year it is required.  I have to communicate with them about 6 times per year.  The rest of the regs are completely stupid, but the testing at least means something (to someone). 

 

 

Oh.  That is different.  Ours is "you can send it in or you can keep it and prove it if you get audited."  They are way too overloaded and busy to actually audit anyone.  The only time they audit is if they get a complaint of some kind (usually from an Ex spouse.)

[shawthorne44]

Some kids in public school are suffering from educational neglect.  I've seen many myself while I was briefly a high school teacher.  Several kids that couldn't read, but were being passed along.  The kid I caught copying someone else's math homework, whose teacher said she was pleased "he cared enough to cheat".   The guy that applied where I worked, with a college degree from a big state U in Kansas.   He couldn't read, but he had played football.  

 

I wonder what the percentage of educational neglect is on each of public school, private school and homeschool?  

 

I know that for me, even unintentional homeschooling would have been better than public school.  Mom could have kept working, thrown some textbooks and workbooks at me, and I'd have learned more.  For one thing, I would have read more than 10% of the textbook.  For homeschooling to have been worse, I'd have had to be working for most of the day.   

[poppy]

Some kids in public school are suffering from educational neglect.  I've seen many myself while I was briefly a high school teacher.  Several kids that couldn't read, but were being passed along.  The kid I caught copying someone else's math homework, whose teacher said she was pleased "he cared enough to cheat".   The guy that applied where I worked, with a college degree from a big state U in Kansas.   He couldn't read, but he had played football.  

 

I wonder what the percentage of educational neglect is on each of public school, private school and homeschool?  

 

I know that for me, even unintentional homeschooling would have been better than public school.  Mom could have kept working, thrown some textbooks and workbooks at me, and I'd have learned more.  For one thing, I would have read more than 10% of the textbook.  For homeschooling to have been worse, I'd have had to be working for most of the day.   

 

The difference is, I think, that kids do have some avenues of recourse if they experience educational neglect in public school. 

[Farrar]

The difference is, I think, that kids do have some avenues of recourse if they experience educational neglect in public school. 

 

Not only that, but there are also many more safety nets in place to catch other types of neglect and abuse.

 

While many of us individually are doing way better than our local public school options, and while even mediocre or poor homeschool instruction in a loving, education-supporting home is miles better than many individual public school options, no one can convince me that for kids where there's actual abuse or where parents are actively trying to prevent education or contact with the outside world that they wouldn't be better off in even a poor public school.

[luuknam]

Uh no I have to send them the results every year it is required.  I have to communicate with them about 6 times per year.  The rest of the regs are completely stupid, but the testing at least means something (to someone). 

 

Not really. All you need to do is tell them what test you're going to give, and then send in a letter saying that your kid scored >33rd percentile on the test you gave. Nobody asked for any *proof* I actually gave a test or w/e. It's my understanding that these things vary by district though, but iiuc there are plenty of districts like mine.

[Crimson Wife]

Not only that, but there are also many more safety nets in place to catch other types of neglect and abuse.

 

Most abuse reports are made by people who are not affiliated with the school system (parents, other relatives, neighbors, coaches & Scout leaders, childcare providers, etc.) The one classmate I knew whose stepfather went to jail for molesting her the school had no clue about. The stepfather had made a creepy comment to me, which I had told to my babysitter. The sitter was the one who called CPS.

 

School personnel *CAN* serve as a "safety net" but they can also be the abusers. Over a K-12 career, it's close to 1 in 10 according to the Fed. DoE. I was harassed by my high school math teacher.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not really. All you need to do is tell them what test you're going to give, and then send in a letter saying that your kid scored >33rd percentile on the test you gave. Nobody asked for any *proof* I actually gave a test or w/e. It's my understanding that these things vary by district though, but iiuc there are plenty of districts like mine.

 

They can ask.  I just send it.  That part of the regs is rather fuzzy.  Some districts don't let parents administer the test themselves. 

 

My district doesn't respond to my paperwork anymore.  None of it.  Which ok great they leave me alone, but not great because I basically have no proof I'm in compliance.