Education Sec. Says Homeschoolers Would Be Better Off in Public Schools: 'Not Getting Rapid Instructional Experience'

[HomeMum]

U.S. Secretary of Education John King is receiving criticism for his recent statements claiming that children who are homeschooled have fewer options than those enrolled in schools.

 

At a recent breakfast event sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor, Secretary King told reporters that he had mixed feelings about homeschooling children.

 

According to Politico, King noted that while he knew many homeschooling families do it "incredibly well" and homeschooled students have had "very tremendous academic success," he believed homeschooled children are not "getting the range of options that are good for all kids."

 

King added that he was worried "students who are homeschooled are not getting kind of the rapid instructional experience they would get in school," unless their parents are "very intentional about it."

 

 

 

 

Source [http://www.christianpost.com/news/education-secretary-john-king-homeschoolers-better-off-public-schools-not-getting-rapid-instructional-experience-169943/#wKhd8wY49tufPQmF.99]

 

Also, what a terrible website.

Edited September 23, 2016 by HomeMum

[Amira]

It's hard to know exactly what he said and the context of the questions since the original write-up is behind a paywall. According to the things I've read about this, he said that parents should be able to choose homeschooling and that many homeschoolers do a great job.

 

If I'm understanding the term correctly, rapid instructional experiences involve input and ideas from different students in the class and that's obviously something homeschoolers usually miss.

 

There are drawbacks to homeschooling, just like there are drawbacks to public school. Acknowledging those drawbacks doesn't mean King or anyone else is against homeschooling.

[Rosie_0801]

If I'm understanding the term correctly, rapid instructional experiences involve input and ideas from different students in the class and that's obviously something homeschoolers usually miss.

 

 

It's something I missed in public school too.

 

Teacher: Question

Students: *crickets*

[kiwik]

Interesting website. I don't think I needed to go there.

[Guest]

It's something I missed in public school too.

 

Teacher: Question

Students: *crickets*

Darnit, I hate that we can't 'like' your posts, because you nailed it. Edited September 23, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Mimm]

It's something I missed in public school too.

 

Teacher: Question

Students: *crickets*

 

:lol:

 

I once watched a scene in some show that slips my mind where the teacher was firing off questions rapidly and the students were giving complex and well thought out answers, several students raising their hands to each one. Granted, I was homeschooled mostly, but even in college I never experienced anything like that. The best classes were when the professor got out of the way and let discussion happen on it's own, guiding it back on topic if we strayed too far. This is something homeschoolers miss out on, but rarely happens because instructors are busy lecturing and getting through course materials. Exchange of knowledge is one way, from instructor to student, not often between students. (In my experience anyway.)

[Faithr]

I read about this from a different source somewhere, but anyway, the first thought I had was:  what the hell is 'rapid instructional experience'???  Weird wording.  

 

I too thought he was trying to be expansive and balanced but couldn't quite do it right because homeschooling just isn't in his world.  But he tried!  I'll give him kudos for that!

[creekland]

I agree with him for the most part.  I have mixed feelings about homeschooling (with no regrets for having chosen it) and I think the best homeschooling option is when parents are very intentional about it.  Therefore, we were intentional about it.  I tend to think anyone hanging out on a homeschooling forum is likely to be intentional about it.  There are others not on forums who are also intentional.

 

But there are also those who aren't so intentional... those kids could easily be better off in a public school.  

 

Needless to say I have mixed feelings about public school too - esp since we chose to homeschool after I had had experience in our public school.  There are pros and cons to each.

 

In the end, we all weigh our options and abilities and make our best guess for our kids.  There's no way I'm going to say homeschooling (or ps) is always better for every student even within a family.  Life is not that simple.

 

 

[nevergiveup]

Well great.

Now I get to feel guilty about not providing my kids with rapid instructional experiences.

 

I thought that teaching my dyslexic kid to read and do math when the school couldn't was enough.

[SparklyUnicorn]

What "range of options..."?  You go to the assigned school with the assigned teachers studying the assigned subjects.  Again, what range of options?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[*Lulu*]

Rapid instructional experience?

 

Does he mean the thing that is far too often dictated by what "must be covered" before spring testing instead of the learning pace of the students? Or maybe he means the pace that is aimed at the average student, meaning accelerated and struggling students' pacing needs are not directly addressed, and that on any given day a concept will be moved on from without a percentage of even the average students having mastered it?

 

Surely he can't mean the very thing every educator I know cites as one of the top 5 problems in their classroom?

 

Yeah, let me run right out and very intentionally recreate the problems of the classroom model. >insert deep snarky eye roll <

[bettyandbob]

I think the key phrase is "very intentional."

 

I saw many families who weren't intentional when I started. It bothered me a lot. I ended up forming some of our own activities to meet more like minded people. When I did that I drifted away from the people who were not intentional. Some of those people put their kids in school quickly. Some of those people waited a few years. I know one family put a child in 7th grade who was 9th grade age and still had trouble with academics not related to learning disabilities.

 

These kids aren't getting basic foundation s for academics. Unfortunately, they are the ones who stand out. Bad examples always make better news.

 

That's one reason I think there should be some regulations. I don't know how that should be, but I don't want homeschooling ruined for all because a small percentage are most noticeable as a mess.

[*Lulu*]

I agree with him for the most part. I have mixed feelings about homeschooling (with no regrets for having chosen it) and I think the best homeschooling option is when parents are very intentional about it. Therefore, we were intentional about it. I tend to think anyone hanging out on a homeschooling forum is likely to be intentional about it. There are others not on forums who are also intentional.

 

But there are also those who aren't so intentional... those kids could easily be better off in a public school.

 

Needless to say I have mixed feelings about public school too - esp since we chose to homeschool after I had had experience in our public school. There are pros and cons to each.

 

In the end, we all weigh our options and abilities and make our best guess for our kids. There's no way I'm going to say homeschooling (or ps) is always better for every student even within a family. Life is not that simple.

I think that is the way with most things in life. You weigh the pros and cons of your options and make the best choice for you at the time.

 

I am absolutely sure that homeschooling was the best choice for our family. In 9 years of homeschooling I have only twice unequivocally told another parent that I believed they needed to homeschool.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think the key phrase is "very intentional."

 

I saw many families who weren't intentional when I started. It bothered me a lot. I ended up forming some of our own activities to meet more like minded people. When I did that I drifted away from the people who were not intentional. Some of those people put their kids in school quickly. Some of those people waited a few years. I know one family put a child in 7th grade who was 9th grade age and still had trouble with academics not related to learning disabilities.

 

These kids aren't getting basic foundation s for academics. Unfortunately, they are the ones who stand out. Bad examples always make better news.

 

That's one reason I think there should be some regulations. I don't know how that should be, but I don't want homeschooling ruined for all because a small percentage are most noticeable as a mess.

 

My state of residence requires testing.  As much as I hate these tests I do think this is one way to demonstrate that some standards are being met.  If they can pass these tests with the methods they are using then what is there to argue about.  KWIM? 

[Ottakee]

What "range of options..."? You go to the assigned school with the assigned teachers studying the assigned subjects. Again, what range of options?

One of my closest friends just.moved 2 hours away to a very rural area. She was amazed at the different offerings at the highschool level for her kids. They will be able to graduate highschool with 60+ course hours completed through a local state university. The school offers the dual enrolment, distance learning, independent study, etc.

 

While I am very pro homeschooling, there are things that are very hard for homeschoolers to replicate.....music classes, art classes, many extra curriculars offered, etc.

[*Lulu*]

My state of residence requires testing. As much as I hate these tests I do think this is one way to demonstrate that some standards are being met. If they can pass these tests with the methods they are using then what is there to argue about. KWIM?

I am not against oversight for homeschoolers. I would not be okay with yearly testing UNLESS the measure of progress was comparing the students' scores to their scores from previous years. (Which is consequently what I think should happen with the testing of students in the schools as well.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

One of my closest friends just.moved 2 hours away to a very rural area. She was amazed at the different offerings at the highschool level for her kids. They will be able to graduate highschool with 60+ course hours completed through a local state university. The school offers the dual enrolment, distance learning, independent study, etc.

 

While I am very pro homeschooling, there are things that are very hard for homeschoolers to replicate.....music classes, art classes, many extra curriculars offered, etc.

 

Here there are some choices in high school, but the choices are just classes you can choose from.  But the choices are either this history course or that history course.  They don't have distance learning, independent study, etc.  They have some dual enrollment stuff, but this is mostly courses delivered via TV/video for unusual subjects the school doesn't offer (like Chinese).

 

Those are all options a homeschooler could have.  My kid can study this history or that history.  He can do distance learning, independent study, and dual enrollment. 

 

I do agree with the last thing you said.  There are only so many extracurricular things I can afford.  But my kids do participate in extra curricular classes (art, choir, drama, dance, etc.).

Edited September 23, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[kiana]

There's always the need to balance ideal vs. what actually happens.

 

I really don't think even good homeschooling would be better than the best of schools. But I also think that 99% of people don't have access to that type of school. And I think that intentional homeschooling, including seeking help when you're in over your head, is a very good way to be educated. 

 

I will confess that now that I've started instructing I can understand why people would be anti-homeschooling. I've seen several from the same local homeschooling area come through my classes, and unfortunately they were ludicrously underprepared for the lowest level math class we offer (high school algebra 1). This has been at the top of my mind, because we just had our first exam last week, and one of them earned a 0 (as in, I could not find one point to give all the way through) on the first test. 

 

There are a lot of underprepared public school students around. But I've never had one where they got to the college and were completely unable to solve something like x-5 = 7 even with prompting -- where they just plain had never seen anything like that. 

[kiana]

I am not against oversight for homeschoolers. I would not be okay with yearly testing UNLESS the measure of progress was comparing the students' scores to their scores from previous years. (Which is consequently what I think should happen with the testing of students in the schools as well.)

 

Yes, 100%, both for homeschoolers and public schoolers.

 

If a kid comes in reading 4 grades behind grade level and leaves reading 3 grades behind, I think his instructor has done a great job that year. But the damn tests just say "nope, not up to par". And unfortunately that encourages focusing on the borderline kids and leaving the kids who are doing well and the kids who are doing very badly to fend for themselves. 

[bettyandbob]

My state of residence requires testing. As much as I hate these tests I do think this is one way to demonstrate that some standards are being met. If they can pass these tests with the methods they are using then what is there to argue about. KWIM?

Not all states require testing.

 

Also, some of the portfolios I saw accepted by independent evaluators for children without any disability were questionable. It made me wonder about the independent evaluators.

 

Testing is a place to start.

[lauranc]

It's something I missed in public school too.

 

Teacher: Question

Students: *crickets

 

Yes.  This exactly.  That kind of enthusiastic discussion amongst peers in school may be something educators long for. The system just isn't set up to encourage that kind of in depth discussion though. 

[regentrude]

I agree: unless the parents are intentional about it, homeschooling does not give the kids a good education.

However, my experience with homeschoolers is that most parents are intentional about homeschooling.

 

And yes, he is right about the fact that homeschooling does not offer all the choices - but he forgets that ps in many areas not offer many choices either.

 

But I am still puzzled about the adjective "rapid". What is rapid instruction? I am to a large part homeschooling because instruction in ps went at a snail's pace that left my kids bored out of their minds.

Edited September 23, 2016 by regentrude

[poppy]

This is politics...  HSLDA trying to drum up outrage about relatively mild and measured comments.   I'm not taking the bait.

[*Lulu*]

This is politics... HSLDA trying to drum up outrage about relatively mild and measured comments. I'm not taking the bait.

Wait, the HSLDA is behind this?

 

I thought they were too busy policing bathrooms to be bothered with details like, I don't know, the education of children.

[Carrie12345]

I've clicked on multiple pages with different spins, and decided I agree with him.  Some homeschoolers suck.  (Some willingly, some in denial.)  That's in addition to homeschoolers with whom I happen to *disagree*.  Just because I don't like someone's philosophy or methods doesn't mean their kids are going to be crippled for it.  But I have most definitely met parents IRL who would be doing their kids a huge favor by putting them in a more formal educational setting (private, public, charter, tutor, or, in some rare cases, just a den of wolves in the woods.)

[Bluegoat]

There are cons to homeschooling, some significant ones, potentially.  Lack of other people for working with and bouncing ideas off of, or teachers for specialist subjects, can be difficult ones for even intentional homeschoolers to overcome, and they become more important as students get older.

 

However - I think the way comments like that are framed often tends to be in terms of taking ps as a given and looking at upsides and downsides of homeschooling.  But we can equally go the other way round, and say - these are the upsides and downsides of ps or institutional education.

[Lanny]

I watched this video with Sal Khan of Khan Academy, twice. He discusses Mastery VS the current method used in Public Schools.. . It is about 10 minutes long. TTUISD posted this link on their Facebook page. Awesome.

 

"Rapid Instructional Experience" = "Automatic Promotion" and the students in Brick and Mortar schools moving along in groups,  whether or not they have Mastery of a subject.

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/sal_khan_let_s_teach_for_mastery_not_test_scores

 

 

 

[shawthorne44]

King noted that while he knew many homeschooling families do it "incredibly well" 

 

 

 

This is like someone that tells people they have a friend of X race, so that you won't accuse them of being racist when they badmouth the X race as a group.   

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

The only way I can interpret rapid is strictly paced by curriculum vs. adjusting to student learning level. Of course that totally ignores the opposite--the kids bored to tears bc the pace is so incredibly below their level and in a homeschool they may end up grade levels ahead.

 

I just got home from 2 weeks away. During that time my 12th grader and I went on several college visits and we visited family.

 

College visits first--- We sat in and observed several classes. Teacher asked question/followed by crickets was definitely the norm. There was no rapid fire questioning. They offered more and more "hints" until someone was finally brave enough to guess. (And a top 10 ranked LAC classroom was indistinguishable from a mid 100 ranked public university. Right down to the textbook being used.) Dd, who has never taken a course in a classroom, has been so disappointed by what she has witnessed in college classrooms. At least she is no longer stressed about what it will be like in college. ;) (She now recognizes just how strong of a student she is.)

 

Family-- My niece has been a ps teacher for 17 yrs. She has received numerous awards, been teacher of the yr, etc. We were talking about her classroom and she says that now, even as a veteran teacher, her entire day is scripted and she cannot deviate from the script. She has to teach exactly what is printed in her TM and it is why her kids are now in private school.

 

We talked about math and I showed her on of my younger dd's Hands on Equations. She said there is no way the students in her class were capable of that level of math. And, she also emphasized again that she isn't allowed to teach or provide any instruction outside of her script even if it would benefit her students. She has never been so "controlled" in her classroom as she is now.

 

Fwiw, I am anti regulations. I have homeschooled in several states. I have not seen regulation make any difference in the homeschooling community. It just adds hoops. I am also anti-testing bc I don't believe that standardized tests are accurate assessments of actual ability. (Apparently admissions officers are heading that direction considering in a recent survey over 70% say that they believe more schools are going to become test optional and only 6% disagree with that belief.)

 

The reality is that education will never be equivalent across different scenarios. Suggesting that ps students across the country receive comparable educations is obviously false. Homeschoolers are no different.

 

ETA: link for survey https://www.insidehighered.com/news/survey/pressure-build-class-2016-survey-admissions-directors?utm_content=buffer327bb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkedin&utm_campaign=IHEbuffer

 

Also, excuse my gazillion mistakes. I am exhausted and have returned home to construction dust and a totally chaotic mess. more important things await than my pecking at my IPad mistakes.

Edited September 23, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[kiana]

It'd be really nice to find the transcript of the entire thing. Anyone found it? 

 

All I've found in more mainstream media is remarks about all the other things he said. 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2016/0921/Education-Secretary-John-King-US-still-has-work-to-do-on-equity-in-schools

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-21/john-king-says-obama-administration-has-unfinished-education-business

[FaithManor]

I agree: unless the parents are intentional about it, homeschooling does not give the kids a good education.

However, my experience with homeschoolers is that most parents are intentional about homeschooling.

 

And yes, he is right about the fact that homeschooling does not offer all the choices - but he forgets that ps in many areas not offer many choices either.

 

But I am still puzzled about the adjective "rapid". What is rapid instruction? I am to a large part homeschooling because instruction in ps went at a snail's pace that left my kids bored out of their minds.

Agree wholeheartedly. I definitely know homeschoolers who are not getting the job done, very lazy, very unconcerned about education and more all about religious indoctrination, almost anti-education actually. To be honest their kids would be much better off in a formal education setting.

But that said, their kids would not likely be very good students due to the attitude at home. They would at least be exposed to more material and for the student who chooses to move forward at least there are resources available and some like minded students to be around for support as the student swims up stream.

 

That said, his comments seem very mild and not particularly controversial. It belies a mindset however that all ps's are equal and provide a plethora of opportunities which is absolutely not the case, total delusion. It also speaks to his lack of understanding of the wide range of options available in many communities outside of schools.

 

Scouts comes to mind.

4H - our kids have had multiple public speaking and community action opportunities, rocket team, political action, travel, competition, huge activities at Michigan State University, exposure to a much wider range of academic topics than our PS provides...

 

Community sports, travel teams.

Community orchestra - one of the girls on our rocket team plays in the tri-county orchestra which is much more advanced than any of our PS school bands and provides professional training, tons of room for personal development while learning in a team/group environment.

 

Private and group lessons through private instructors.

 

And the list goes on and on. If the ps was so robust, these community based groups or like 4H, publicly tax funded education groups, would not exist if the public school was such a paragon of educational and personal development opportunity.

 

As for student input, Rosie nailed it. Ask a question, silence. It gets better in high school after 10th grade in the tougher classes because of self selection. The kids choosing AP biology, pre-calc, that third year of foreign language, the pre calc based physics class, Java programming, Honors literature....these are the motivated to learn bunch so they are more engaged and willing to participate. But middle school????? In many, many districts, middle school is Lord of the Flies and nothing but spinning wheels academically, getting nothing new accomplished, and pretty much babysitting which is why the high school teachers have such problems covering material at a decent pace because these brains and bodies have been so stagnant. Probably this speaker needs to leave his ivory tower and spend some real time across the nation going to school, encountering the truth. Yes if he spends a few days in West Bloomfield at International Academy, he will have reason to be duly impressed. Spend a few days in my local district, nothing very good going on, spend a day in Highland Park schools, and if he has any compassion for children, he will weep.

 

But all things considered he wasn't making draconian anti homeschooling statements nor advocating for restrictions so not a big deal.

[kiana]

But all things considered he wasn't making draconian anti homeschooling statements nor advocating for restrictions so not a big deal.

 

Yeah. Honestly I don't see the reason for the fuss, other than a "the sky is falling" membership drive. It seems to have been a really minor comment in a much longer speech about inequity in education. 

[momacacia]

He is the head of public school education. He's the public school administrator of all public administrators. Of course he's not going to be all "homeschooling is sooooo fabulous!"

[Violet Crown]

King added that he was worried "students who are homeschooled are not getting kind of the rapid instructional experience they would get in school,"

Middle Girl: "He is saying words but they have no meaning."

Edited September 23, 2016 by Violet Crown

[bethben]

I am not against oversight for homeschoolers. I would not be okay with yearly testing UNLESS the measure of progress was comparing the students' scores to their scores from previous years. (Which is consequently what I think should happen with the testing of students in the schools as well.)

I think Colorado has a good system. We have to test every other year and the bar is pretty low for what is an acceptable percentage on those tests. We need to turn in the scores to the school district or an umbrella organization. The umbrella organization will only make a stink if the child is not progressing or is under the lowest percentage indicating either a learning disability or non- schooling.

 

The other way you can avoid testing is to join an umbrella school where there are all sorts of things you are accountable to do. People use this option if their kids don't test well.

 

Either way, there is accountability from an outside source not necessarily the school district.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[need2read]

The most interesting part to me is that he thinks homeschooled students don't have the same range of educational opportunities as public schooled kids. This may be true in large, wealthy school districts but here in my tiny rural district my son actually has more opportunities in homeschooling than he would in the public school. For example, our high school only offers US History at the high school level. They take 4 years of it. My son is also studying World History so he is learning so much more than his public schooled peers. Also, our school only offers French and Spanish. My son got to choose any language he wanted and is taking German. He will also be taking Economics at some point, which the public school does not offer.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MinivanMom]

I think it's important to remember that in general highly educated individuals in positions of authority usually live in areas where they have access to the kinds of good public schools with "rapid instructional experiences" and a "range of options" for classes and instructional experiences. I assume that is his frame of reference. I don't really see anything controversial or negative in his comments. In fact, without seeing the full transcript, I would say that they are rather positive for someone whose career is invested in the public education system. 

 

No, not all schools are like that, but many are. I attended good schools with wonderful classroom discussions. I never experienced the "crickets" that others seem to think are common. I can't speak to "rapid instructional experiences" in our local public schools (since my kids are homeschooled), but I know that they definitely offer a "range of options" from traditional classroom to magnet schools to IB programs to online classes. Our zoned high school offers everything under the sun: every AP course imaginable, dual-enrollment, languages taught by native speakers, a full Latin program, music, dance, sports, several full vocational programs, etc.

 

I know some homeschoolers who are intentional and doing an amazing job, much better than they could ever get within 4 walls. And I know a few"non-intentional" homeschoolers who would benefit greatly from making a switch to public school. I don't think there's anything controversial in acknowledging that.

[Farrar]

No educational approach offers the full range of options. Homeschoolers can give kids options that schools can't. Schools can give kids options homeschools can't.

 

Faster doesn't equal better, in fact it's often worse in education. I'm not sure what he actually meant with that phrase though. As others are pointing out, sounds like ed jargon that's not accessible to most people (and I usually know the ed jargon, but I don't know this one).

 

Some schools do a good job, others poor. Some homeschoolers do a good job, others poor. The way he phrased it about needing to be "very intentional" seems to imply that most of us aren't or that the bar is very high when I don't think it's as difficult as all that to be intentional. But just as a basic truth - some homeschoolers are doing a poor job by their kids and they would be better off in school. IME, that's not most families though. But this gets to the lack of data problem with homeschoolers. Who really knows.

 

Overall, he has zero power in terms of changing our rights. He wasn't trying to direct policy, just speaking opinions. Homeschool rights are pretty well-secured nationwide and I'm not worried about them. It's reasonable for him to have an opinion and state it. And while it comes off as a bit awkward and uninformed, the gist of it doesn't deeply offend me or anything. Basically a non-issue.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I am not against oversight for homeschoolers. I would not be okay with yearly testing UNLESS the measure of progress was comparing the students' scores to their scores from previous years. (Which is consequently what I think should happen with the testing of students in the schools as well.)

 

Here in NY it does allow for that.  So if one doesn't score the minimum required score to not have the school monkeys on one's back they can also meet that requirement by showing growth.  The showing growth thing is a bit vague to me, but yes essentially you show that there is some improvement/learning.  If the minimums aren't met this isn't instant grounds for being unable to homeschool.  They basically would want a plan or if the kid has disabilities some plan to get them help or work on whatever it is they need help with.  So if you had a kid who would never pass those exams so long as the district knows what is going on they wouldn't tell you that you could not homeschool.  The minimum requirement is quite low too.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not all states require testing.

 

Also, some of the portfolios I saw accepted by independent evaluators for children without any disability were questionable. It made me wonder about the independent evaluators.

 

Testing is a place to start.

 

I hate the testing and I'd prefer an alternative, but then I can't say that ultimately it was any sort of problem. 

[3 ladybugs]

Could this just be the European influence into American minds? My son attends a German "Saturday school". People there think I am nuts for homeschooling him. I had one person tell me that in Germany the thought is you go to public school, if you can't cut it in public school then you go to private school, if you can't cut it in private school you are homeschooled. In other words, homeschooling is the last resort if your child can't cut it anywhere else. To me America is the exact opposite. Those who can homeschool do. If you can't homeschool the next best option is private schools. If you can't afford those and you can't homeschool, then you send your child to public schools. 

 

We see European influences all the time in politics and I see this as no different. Testing will not prove that my child is on par with his peers. Testing will prove that he is good or bad at taking tests. The only way to really see how well a child is doing is to watch them day in and day out to see the whole picture. I do use testing when I am homeschooling, but it isn't the only thing I look at when determining how well my child is doing. I am personally glad that I live in a very free state to homeschool. I wish all states were like this. We don't test or anything. 

 

Is there such thing as educational neglect? Yes and homeschoolers can fall into that, but I don't call those people homeschoolers. To be a homeschooler to me is an intent to teach your child. It infuriates me when I see news stories about some parent who could care less about their child and then news story says "and the parents homeschooled". No homeschooling means you set out intending to school your child how you see fit. Whether that is unschooling, box learning, or whatever. There is a plan in place. Maybe that would be a way to track homeschoolers if you wanted to see that they were teaching. Make it so you see their plan. That would certainly tell you more then a test that could be skewed for any number of reasons. 

[forty-two]

Faster doesn't equal better, in fact it's often worse in education. I'm not sure what he actually meant with that phrase though. As others are pointing out, sounds like ed jargon that's not accessible to most people (and I usually know the ed jargon, but I don't know this one).

Google directed me to "rapid instructional design." Seems to have been first developed in the early 2000s, and emphasizes practice, feedback, and experience over presentations.

 

The four components are:

*Preparation (giving a big picture introduction and arousing interest),

*Presentation (which is supposed to be interactive and discovery-based instead of lecture-based),

*Practice (the chance for the learner to actually *do* what they are learning and receive real-time feedback), and

*Performance (the chance for the learner to use the new skill in a real world task, ideally meaning an actual real thing done in the real world itself, as opposed to a real world task adapted for use in the classroom).

 

And this approach is supposed to speed up learning and allow for more rapid progress.

[SparklyUnicorn]

One of my closest friends just.moved 2 hours away to a very rural area. She was amazed at the different offerings at the highschool level for her kids. They will be able to graduate highschool with 60+ course hours completed through a local state university. The school offers the dual enrolment, distance learning, independent study, etc.

 

While I am very pro homeschooling, there are things that are very hard for homeschoolers to replicate.....music classes, art classes, many extra curriculars offered, etc.

 

Well and then another thing is there are districts who don't offer all of that.  I've heard of schools who don't offer physics in high school.  There are many districts where algebra is not offered until 9th grade.  Because across the board there is no requirement for districts to offer all of that.  Most probably try to, but not all actually do so.  So why pick on people who have exercised their right to the option of homeschooling?  Funny because when they had the whole NCLB crap the federal education website bragged about school choice and the choices kids have.  Charter schools, magnet schools, private schools, and homeschooling.  They listed homeschooling and expanded upon what that is and look...see here it's a choice you have among the many choices.  Which of course is laughable because in many instances there are no choices at all.  We don't have choices where I live.  You go where they tell you to go.  That's it. 

 

If this guy cares about homeschoolers having options then make districts allow homeschoolers to enroll part time, join sports, join extracurricular activities, and give them money to spend on choices. 

[Ravin]

I watched this video with Sal Khan of Khan Academy, twice. He discusses Mastery VS the current method used in Public Schools.. . It is about 10 minutes long. TTUISD posted this link on their Facebook page. Awesome.

 

"Rapid Instructional Experience" = "Automatic Promotion" and the students in Brick and Mortar schools moving along in groups,  whether or not they have Mastery of a subject.

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/sal_khan_let_s_teach_for_mastery_not_test_scores

 

Oh, so that thing that so demoralized my DD who struggles with math that she now resists pretty much anything that seems to her as school-like or that might involve learning?

[8filltheheart]

Google directed me to "rapid instructional design." Seems to have been first developed in the early 2000s, and emphasizes practice, feedback, and experience over presentations.

 

The four components are:

*Preparation (giving a big picture introduction and arousing interest),

*Presentation (which is supposed to be interactive and discovery-based instead of lecture-based),

*Practice (the chance for the learner to actually *do* what they are learning and receive real-time feedback), and

*Performance (the chance for the learner to use the new skill in a real world task, ideally meaning an actual real thing done in the real world itself, as opposed to a real world task adapted for use in the classroom).

 

And this approach is supposed to speed up learning and allow for more rapid progress.

Why would that be incompatible with homeschooling?

[forty-two]

Why would that be incompatible with homeschooling?

 

I wondered the same thing.  He doesn't think homeschoolers ever design their own instruction? :smilielol5:

 

ETA: Or, maybe he doesn't think that homeschoolers have the necessary skills and contacts in the community to be able to provide the immediate feedback in everything and to be able to give our students genuine real world practice.  Which would be a fair point.  A lot of that can be made up by outsourcing to teachers *with* the relevant skills and contacts, but it's not the one-stop-shopping experience of his ideal ps.  I do wonder how many public schools are capable of providing this - some, certainly, but more than 10% or 25%?

Edited September 23, 2016 by forty-two

[*Lulu*]

Google directed me to "rapid instructional design." Seems to have been first developed in the early 2000s, and emphasizes practice, feedback, and experience over presentations.

 

The four components are:

*Preparation (giving a big picture introduction and arousing interest),

*Presentation (which is supposed to be interactive and discovery-based instead of lecture-based),

*Practice (the chance for the learner to actually *do* what they are learning and receive real-time feedback), and

*Performance (the chance for the learner to use the new skill in a real world task, ideally meaning an actual real thing done in the real world itself, as opposed to a real world task adapted for use in the classroom).

 

And this approach is supposed to speed up learning and allow for more rapid progress.

 

 

 

 

This looks a whole lot closer to most homeschoolers I know (who have reached middle school and higher) than it does to what is happening in the classrooms in our state. 

[MysteryJen]

I really wish that public schools could speak in more nuanced tones about what they offer. Most high schools have more than one level offered. So if we could compare regular classes to regular classes, honors to honors, AP to AP, we might have a better idea of what constitutes a "good" high school education. Homeschooling is also not monolithic and many people do have experience with public schools, both good and bad. Dismissing either good or bad reviews of public education is foolish for homeschoolers in general.

 

For example, when looking for high schools for my dd2 who has LDs, I was not looking at the awesome AP line-up or the early college options. Regular classes, with caring and responsive teachers and counselors were the standard of comparison. She is not in the top rated hs in her district or county. And I am really tired of defending my choice to people who think that the school with the "best" offerings was the obvious choice. We need to have a better way to discuss education, in part by acknowledging that not all children are going to have equal outcomes, no matter how they are schooled.

[FaithManor]

I wondered the same thing. He doesn't think homeschoolers ever design their own instruction? :smilielol5:

 

ETA: Or, maybe he doesn't think that homeschoolers have the necessary skills and contacts in the community to be able to provide the immediate feedback in everything and to be able to give our students genuine real world practice. Which would be a fair point. A lot of that can be made up by outsourcing to teachers *with* the relevant skills and contacts, but it's not the one-stop-shopping experience of his ideal ps. I do wonder how many public schools are capable of providing this - some, certainly, but more than 10% or 25%?

Education had taken such a turn for the worse in our state, that I would say 5-8% can provide. So if you live in one of those districts and have no real world education experience outside your district, I can see the assumption being that this is the face of pubkuc education in most districts when in fact the district this person lives in is thr aberration and not the norm.

[Ali in OR]

Certainly home schooling does not have everything that excellent public schooling offers. However, it is also true that public schooling (even excellent, and much of it is not excellent) does not have everything that excellent, intentional home schooling offers. I'm in both worlds. We home school our kids through 8th grade and then put them in the public school for high school. I tutor at the high school, mostly math. And I often think of advantages of home schooling that public school students miss out on. Like, not rapid instruction, but lingering, deepening investigation, revisiting a topic through the year or over the years as abilities grow. Or studying whatever you would like, particularly if family finances allow for online classes taught by experts who can focus on their subject and not public school bureaucracy. Sleeping in. No busy work. Being responsible for your own learning. Living a lifestyle of learning as just part of who you are.

 

So my junior in high school is in a rapid instruction environment, and she has had some really good classes/teachers. I'm sure she learns from being around studious peers. But she has given up Latin as it is not offered in her school (and there is no time to add it on the side, though we tried). She can't take AP Euro, which she would love after all of our history studies, as her school doesn't offer it. She has to waste time taking a health class requirement. As a middle-of-the-road math student, she has had some poor teachers and is not expected to understand deeply--much higher expectations in our home school. While this man's comments might be fair, the opposite is just as fair--public schoolers miss out on many of the amazing benefits of home schooling. And his job is to focus on enriching the educational experience of the students he is responsible for (public schoolers), not to judge the educational experience of those he is not responsible for (home schoolers).

 

I think we all strive for excellence here at WTM. Keep striving.