When someone is upset and they say hurtful things...

[Ann.without.an.e]

Do you think this is when their true feelings about you are revealed and therefore you should take these comments to heart or do people just say stupid things when they are angry-things they don't mean?  Just curious what others think about it.

[maize]

People say stupid things when they are angry; doesn't mean that is how they feel most of the time.

[gardenmom5]

it could be either or both.

 

I'm sorry. 

[bolt.]

I think they say stupid-angry things.

 

Neuro-science says that uncontrolled emotional outbursts indicate that the part of your brain that is the most "you" is disengaged, and your base instincts are running the show. My base instincts (self protection) are not "my true feelings" not do they indicate anyone else's "true feelings". I logically *can't* truly mean what I say if I'm not using my whole brain at the time.

 

I suppose the outburst itself (irrespective of content) does indicate that the person is "truly feeling" endangered, threatened, overwhelmed, attacked or panicked in that moment, though. That's a stand-alone "true feeling" of the moment, in its own way, I guess.

 

I suppose 'the thoughts is there' merits some attention, but so does the reality that their reasoning self, their relational self, their values and convictions are also 'there' most of the time. The whole package is what is most real. The outburst might need some attention as 'an extrordinary overstatement of something that is much much less real than it sounded'. Also, if the thing said was so repugnant that it shouldn't exist even in as a tiny shadow of itself, that might need some attention.

Edited June 30, 2016 by bolt.

[marbel]

I agree that it can happen both ways.  But in my experience when it is someone in a close relationship, it's more likely to be a heat of the moment thing.   I have said some hugely stupid things to my husband that I didn't mean at all.  Like, don't know how the words ever came out of my mouth.  My son once said a horrid thing to me when he was sick and very upset about something.    It was hard to forget that but I knew he really did not mean it.

[Farrar]

I agree with the above - that it can be either. But in general, I think unless there's a reason to feel that this is a pattern of behavior or manipulative or whatever, it's better to give people some grace and assume it's just hurt/angry/threatened lashing out feelings and not how they actually feel.

[PrincessMommy]

That's a hard one.

 

The there are problems or issues, I find that most people would rather have their nails pulled out at the roots one by one than tell people what they really think.  Most people want to be nice and kind.  So, it could be a moment of clarity when they finally spoke their mind.

 

OTOH, some people are cruel and mean and like to hurt others. 

 

I also think that many people (and I include myself in this most definitely) don't know how to share their feelings with someone who may have hurt them or someone they don't really like, and it often will come out very badly. 

[Janeway]

I don't say stupid things when I am angry. I hold back and have better manners when not angry.

[Spryte]

I don't say stupid things when I am angry. I hold back and have better manners when not angry.

That's wonderful. I'm quite sure I've said stupid things when angry.

 

I tend to think of it the way bolt explained above, when people say stupid things when angry. I really don't take it personally, but might think we need to examine things closer, when calmer.

[Guest]

It really depends on the person and circumstances. I believe pressure and stress, especially the sustained kind, can really reveal someone's true core character for better or worse. But a trauma or immediately following a big life stressor, when someone is in active pain and spending most of their brain cells trying to cope with the physical and emotional distress? There sometimes just isn't a whole lot of mental energy left for handling other people or even interpreting their actions in a proper context. That is where I think you see someone just getting out the tersest, quickest response to appease the interaction they're in - regardless of social conventions or niceties.

 

It doesn't make it right and if that sort of response keeps coming it's appropriate to address it, but in the moment of trauma I'd say just assume they're not in full control of their faculties and try again another day.

[Lecka]

I would be curious what the person says.

 

Is it something where it would be appropriate to apologize? Did the person apologize? Are you wondering if you should accept the apology at face value?

 

Or does the person not apologize and avoid the subject?

 

My husband says things in the heat of the moment sometimes, and I accept it when he apologizes. He says that he gets in a mindset where he must win and will say anything to win, but it is not what he really thinks.

 

I think at this point in our marriage, he is willing to apologize and I am willing to accept the apology.

 

I don't say angry things in the same way as he does.

 

Something I say when upset is much more likely to reflect an underlying issue.

 

But my husband is different from me in that way.

 

Edit: what I cannot tolerate is being called "too sensitive." I have a family member I rarely see bc he likes to say underhanded things and then say I am "too sensitive." Well, my tolerance for that is very low.

 

If there is just a lack of being willing to talk about it after it is said in general, I do not think that is a good sign.

 

But I think if the person tells you that it is not their true feeling but said in the heat of the moment, then I think one possibility is that you can take that at face value.

 

It could also be a "get out jail" card, but I don't think it necessarily is.

 

You can also think that there is too much anger and you don't want to deal with it. The person may need to find better ways to deal with things, and not take it out on other people. That is completely legitimate to bring up, too, if it is like "oh it is cathartic for me to say hurtful things to you." I think that is messed up and the person should take some concrete steps towards doing better in that area.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Lecka

[HS Mom in NC]

Either one, it depends on the individual and the situation. Either way, it's helpful to develop thick skin, a forgiving nature and a short memory so when things like that happen to us we can get over it quickly and get back to enjoying our lives.

[maize]

I think they say stupid-angry things.

 

Neuro-science says that uncontrolled emotional outbursts indicate that the part of your brain that is the most "you" is disengaged, and your base instincts are running the show. My base instincts (self protection) are not "my true feelings" not do they indicate anyone else's "true feelings". I logically *can't* truly mean what I say if I'm not using my whole brain at the time.

 

I suppose the outburst itself (irrespective of content) does indicate that the person is "truly feeling" endangered, threatened, overwhelmed, attacked or panicked in that moment, though. That's a stand-alone "true feeling" of the moment, in its own way, I guess.

 

I suppose 'the thoughts is there' merits some attention, but so does the reality that their reasoning self, their relational self, their values and convictions are also 'there' most of the time. The whole package is what is most real. The outburst might need some attention as 'an extrordinary overstatement of something that is much much less real than it sounded'. Also, if the thing said was so repugnant that it shouldn't exist even in as a tiny shadow of itself, that might need some attention.

 

This is in keeping with my experience--the more rational, thinking part of the brain appears to be mostly absent from moments of anger. 

[Denise in Florida]

Most of my relationships are easy going, supportive and not given to arguments or angry words, so this does not come up very often.

 

But when it does, I believe that when people allow strong emotion to override their normal filters and the things they are say are closer to the truth than they would normally admit.  

 

They might normally phrase it differently or moderate it with a few qualifiers but I think words in anger are usually what they really feel.

 

I have zero patience for people who say horrid things and then claim they did not mean it they were just angry.  Nope, dude, it came from somewhere. 

 

I have wished I could tell myself to ignore those things but they linger. 

 

 

eta:  I am not talking about people being stressed and snappy.  I understand a lack of tact.  I have said things that later I wished I had phrased differently.  

 

I am talking about people who say hurtful things and then think they can erase it all with 'I was angry".  I have warned my girls that friends (or boyfriends) who make a pattern of doing this are borderline abusive and it is best to let them go.  (I am not talking about a normally kind person having a bad day)

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by Denise in Florida

[Janeway]

I honestly don't get the idea of someone saying mean things "in the heat of an argument." My husband does it. He admits he does it too. I might say mean but true things when I am angry, but I have never thrown out things I really didn't believe, just because I am angry.

 

My husband and I have been fighting a lot angry so this has been a repeat topic.

[The Girls' Mom]

I may say things in a much harsher way than intended, or say things that I probably should have kept to myself, but they are usually things that I've been stewing over.  I don't argue well, though, and usually cry and get all flustered and give up trying to say anything useful.  

[Spryte]

I honestly don't get the idea of someone saying mean things "in the heat of an argument." My husband does it. He admits he does it too. I might say mean but true things when I am angry, but I have never thrown out things I really didn't believe, just because I am angry.

 

My husband and I have been fighting a lot angry so this has been a repeat topic.

Oh, I misunderstood your last post then. I thought you meant that you said nothing at all while angry, just waited to discuss when calm, and, to me, you were heading toward sainthood. Oops. :)

 

I'm sure I've said stupid things in anger, especially when I was younger. I had to learn how to manage anger and still communicate as an adult (my parents simply stopped talking to each other). Years of therapy helped.

 

I'm not following the distinction between mean things that are true and saying mean, stupid things, like in the OP. I think there are some things that are true that don't need to be said, at least not in anger. I think both might fall under the category of having said something stupid.

 

Overall, though, I'm very forgiving. I tend to think the best of people, and talk it out when things are calmer.

 

I do absolutely agree with the idea that if it's a pattern - or if it crosses a particular line - it's abusive.

[Seeking Squirrels]

I think it can go either way. When DH and I fight sometimes I end up harshly saying something that is true and probably should have been brought up tactfully at a better time, but there it is. Other times, we just get locked in a battle of "winning" and start saying harsh things or spewing just to hurt. Not healthy in the slightest, but also not our true feelings. We are both guilty of it in fairly equal degrees. 

[J-rap]

I think that generally, I end up saying things that I don't mean if I'm speaking out of anger.  I mean, there might be some truth to it, but it usually comes out as exaggerated or lopsided.   Once I have a chance to think about it, I usually regret it because I really didn't mean it the way I said it.

[Janeway]

Oh, I misunderstood your last post then. I thought you meant that you said nothing at all while angry, just waited to discuss when calm, and, to me, you were heading toward sainthood. Oops. :)

 

I'm sure I've said stupid things in anger, especially when I was younger. I had to learn how to manage anger and still communicate as an adult (my parents simply stopped talking to each other). Years of therapy helped.

 

I'm not following the distinction between mean things that are true and saying mean, stupid things, like in the OP. I think there are some things that are true that don't need to be said, at least not in anger. I think both might fall under the category of having said something stupid.

 

Overall, though, I'm very forgiving. I tend to think the best of people, and talk it out when things are calmer.

 

I do absolutely agree with the idea that if it's a pattern - or if it crosses a particular line - it's abusive.

Me and sainthood? LOL..no no no no....

[Zinnia]

I once told my dh that he was the most negative person that I had ever, ever known in my entire life.

 

Oh, my.  Stupid-mad for sure.  Luckily, dh has a good sense of humor, and now, when either of us start trending negative, we bring that statement up to bring us back to earth (and likely get a giggle).

[abcmommy]

My husband habitually became angry and said awful things.  I thought he was a nice guy who turned into a jerk when he was mad.

 

Actually he used anger to manipulate and control.  His mean words were verbal abuse.

[Carol in Cal.]

Personally I don't say things that are untrue when I'm upset, but I sometimes say things that I wish I hadn't.

 

DH, OTOH, says stuff that is completely untrue; it's quite remarkable.  He just says whatever comes into his head that is hurtful.  Once I figured this out I started saying, "You don't even believe that yourself." when he does that, and a lot of times he backs himself down at that point.

[Joker]

I was a horrible person to my dh in our second year of marriage right after losing my dad and brother in an accident. I said things I definitely don't feel or believe to push him away. I was hurt, angry, sad, miserable, etc. I know how fortunate I am now, 16 years later, to have dh in my life and for him to know it wasn't the real me. He pushed me to get help and I eventually listened. I hurt all over again when I remember how I treated him. It most definitely wasn't a reflection of my real feelings. 

[Denise in Florida]

My husband habitually became angry and said awful things.  I thought he was a nice guy who turned into a jerk when he was mad.

 

Actually he used anger to manipulate and control.  His mean words were verbal abuse.

 

 

Yes, this is what I was talking about.  I have warned my girls to avoid people who make a pattern of saying deliberately hurtful things and then blaming the hearer for being hurt by things 'I didn't really mean."

[nd293]

I honestly don't get the idea of someone saying mean things "in the heat of an argument." My husband does it. He admits he does it too. I might say mean but true things when I am angry, but I have never thrown out things I really didn't believe, just because I am angry.

 

I don't say things I don't believe or hurt people on purpose, but I know I speak in hyperboles: "I always" or "I never" instead of "I usually"' or "I don't often" which can be hurtful and insulting. I think I'm more aware of that tendency now. On the other hand, picking apart someone's word choice can be a way of avoiding the kernel of truth: "You're right, you don't 'always' leave your clothes where they fall, but you did yesterday and the day before and the day before and the day before."

[SporkUK]

I don't think people just say random things that weren't somehow already in their head or in their mindset when they're angry. We may exaggerate a problem or viewpoint because anger can led to making little things bigger, but the thought or concept was already there even if we wouldn't have voiced it or voiced it differently without anger. 

 

However, on the other hand, as social creatures we take in and absorb a lot of concepts even when we don't realize it - I've often heard that the first reaction is the ingrained social response, and then we get to our personal reaction after that. As anger is often on the first reaction and causes difficulty getting into deeper thought, some hurtful words and actions may be based on what we've gotten from elsewhere. Anger is one area where the harmful, toxic messages of society can really easily take root and one of the hardest to proactively challenge because the messages about how to deal with it are everywhere, are too often really bad/unhealthy, and because anger most often relies on first impulses, the kind of conscious thinking for other areas of life is harder to bring in. 

[Janeway]

My husband's step mother is a pathological liar. And she would throw out all sorts of things, complete lies, while angry. She lies a lot, but, she also gossips and spreads lies. Her lies are clearly planned and she gets tripped up if you present her with something that shows what she said is a lie. SO, when my husband and I were first married, and for several years, he would throw out lies. I think he has learned to not do it. But it was definitely a learned behavior and a character flaw. Like I might say something about his sleeping all day and he would come back and scream at me that I sleep all day and never take care of the kids. And at first, I was very confused over this stuff, I had no clue what he was doing. But as I got to know his stepmother, I saw her doing it all the time, for everything. When he was done being angry, he would say "yeah, I know you don't sleep all day, but I was just angry and people just say things in the heat of anger." I would say "no, they don't. Lying is not something people who are mentally healthy say in the heat of anger."

[goldberry]

Depends. 

 

If it's someone who is normally kind and caring, and they lose the plot once in a situation of extreme stress, I'd try not to focus on what they said in anger. They probably regret it and don't mean it.

 

If it's someone who makes a habit of it, yeah, I'd start to take their supposedly 'said in the heat of the moment' statements a little more seriously, indicative of underlying attitudes. 

 

 

This is what I believe in general, although I think there are certain things, even said in the heat of anger, that can only come from a deep lack of respect at heart.  

 

I think this especially coming from men toward women.

 

Also I think that there are certain things that will not go away once they are said, even if the person regrets it and didn't mean it.  So, it's dicey.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Gee.  After reading all this, I wonder if I am a really crappy person at heart and just masquerade as a good person.  I have said some really terrible things in anger that I didn't mean and was horrified at my behavior.  There is something about seeing red that makes all rational thought go out the window.  I try not to ever go there.  I don't use anger to manipulate people.  I've apologized for my behavior, for my words, thoughts and actions.

 

There is also the mental illness aspect that can color one's interpretation of events/actions.  When depressed and under continual stress, I am less able to see the good intentions of others and am more likely to respond with uncharitable thoughts ... unfortunately, sometimes out loud.  When I am in a different place, I interpret those same things differently. 

 

I wonder if some of this is learned behavior.  My mom would often say terrible things in anger.  But, she didn't really apologize because that wasn't what parents did back then.  However, as I got to know her as an adult, she wasn't this mean person I remembered.  I do think she was under a ton of stress when I was growing up and I got the brunt of it because I was home. 

[SKL]

I think what people say when they are angry or upset is single-dimension view of a multi-dimensional relationship.  So there may be "some truth in it," but it isn't an accurate picture.  And the words need to be interpreted.  "I don't care" may mean "I feel disconnected from you right now."

[Btervet]

I say stupid and hurtful things when very angry. I often realize as I'm saying them how absurd they are, but still I say it. Thankfully, my husband is amazingly forgiving and I don't get angry that often. Apologies help. I absolutely say things that are not my 'true feelings'.

[abcmommy]

http://www.verbalabuse.com/page14/page14.html

 

http://www.loveisrespect.org/is-this-abuse/types-of-abuse/#tab-id-2

 

There are many behaviors that qualify as emotional or verbal abuse:

• Calling you names and putting you down.
• Yelling and screaming at you.
• Intentionally embarrassing you in public.
• Preventing you from seeing or talking with friends and family.
• Telling you what to do and wear.
• Damaging your property when they’re angry (throwing objects, punching walls, kicking doors, etc.)
• Using online communities or cell phones to control, intimidate or humiliate you.
• Blaming your actions for their abusive or unhealthy behavior.
• Accusing you of cheating and often being jealous of your outside relationships.
• Stalking you.
• Threatening to commit suicide to keep you from breaking up with them.
• Threatening to harm you, your pet or people you care about.
• Making you feel guilty or immature when you don’t consent to sexual activity.
• Threatening to expose your secrets such as your sexual orientation or immigration status.
• Starting rumors about you.
• Threatening to have your children taken away.

A relationship can be unhealthy or abusive even without physical violence. Verbal abuse may not cause physical damage, but it does cause emotional pain and scarring. It can also lead to physical violence if the relationship continues on the unhealthy path its on. Learn more about how to recognize emotional abuse by checking out our Power and Control Wheel.

Sometimes verbal abuse is so bad that you actually start believing what your partner says. You begin to think you’re stupid, ugly or fat. You agree that nobody else would ever want to be in a relationship with you. Constantly being criticized and told you aren’t good enough causes you to lose confidence and lowers your self esteem. As a result, you may start to blame yourself for your partner’s abusive behavior.

Remember — emotional abuse is never your fault. In fact, your partner may just be trying to control or manipulate you into staying in the relationship. Talk to someone you trust, like a parent, friend or teacher, about the situation and make a safety plan. You can also chat with a peer advocate for more help when dealing with verbal abuse.

 

 

[maize]

So I have a kinda funny "said in anger" story.

 

A few years ago I left dh with the kids for a Saturday afternoon while I attended an event. There were four children at the time, and I think it was the first time he had taken care of the four of them on his own for any length of time. I of course took care of them on my own all day every day :tongue_smilie: He managed, but by the time I got home he was pretty frazzled and acting quite irritated. I said something about him needing to calm down, and he barked at me "well, maybe you should try watching four kids for five hours straight sometime!!!"

 

I laughed in his face, which of course only irritated him more--but I couldn't help myself. His pronouncement was so utterly ridiculous that I realized his brain was truly not working rationally at the moment and further discussion was pointless.

 

I always remember that incident when he starts spewing hurtful and untruthful nonsense in anger. Arguing is pointless when a person is irrational.

Edited July 1, 2016 by maize

[Ann.without.an.e]

So I have a kinda funny "said in anger" story.

 

A few years ago I left dh with the kids for a Saturday afternoon while I attended an event. There were four children at the time, and I think it was the first time he had taken care of the four of them on his own for any length of time. I of course took care of them on my own all day every day :tongue_smilie: He managed, but by the time I got home he was pretty frazzled and acting quite irritated. I said something about him needing to calm down, and he barked at me "well, maybe you should try watching four kids for five hours straight sometime!!!"

 

I laughed in his face, which of course only irritated him more--but I couldn't help myself. His pronouncement was so utterly ridiculous that I realized his brain was truly not working rationally at the moment and further discussion was pointless.

 

I always remember that incident when he starts spewing hurtful and untruthful nonsense in anger. Arguing is pointless when a person is irrational.

 

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: