Vaccinations and college..what have you done?

[Carrie12345]

 

 

I was titered once when my kids got chicken pox when they were very young.  I'd never seen chicken pox since I never had it, so they titered me.  I was immune because the doctor said I had clearly been exposed in childhood and because I must have been actively fighting at the moment, since my kids were sick.  I never did get it, nor did my mom, and neither of us ever had an active case of chicken pox. 

 

 

 

Interesting.  I was titered while pregnant with #3 or #4 (not sure) and came back with chicken pox immunity.  I never got an actual case (though my mother made sure to expose me to every possible outbreak through the 80s) and I wasn't knowingly around anyone with them in the 2000s, which is when I was pregnant with those two.

[StephanieZ]

So they are faking it at Ivy Leagues?  Ok.

 

At any rate, it is contradictory to state that true protection relies on everyone being fully vaccinated, yet also state that 10-20% aren't immune anyway, vaccinated or not (and presumably some are immune, vaccinated or not). 

 

So then there isn't "true protection" in relying on vaccines, is there?  There are just better or worse odds.  Maybe. 

 

I'm not sure why you are assuming Harvard is a "fully immunized" population. 

 

Here is Harvard's immunization form for Freshmen. It has a very easy "religious exemption" that simply requires the student to sign stating that they have a religious objection. As I am sure we are all well aware, *many* families use this religious exemption very liberally, particularly when organizations/governments do not have stringent requirements (such as requiring a religious leader to sign the form, etc.) It's the most frequently used loop hole for schools, etc.

 

These religious exemptions to vaccines are not like Conscientious Objector status for the military which is very hard to attain . . . It's simply the student signing a statement saying they religiously object. 

 

http://huhs.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/form/C2020_2016_0.pdf

 

I'm also not sure why you are assuming that the vaccine "doesn't work" if it is only 80-90% effective. In fact, many vaccines have significant failure rates, and nearly all of them have *some* degree of failure. Vaccines are often ineffective in isolation. This does NOT mean that vaccinations do not protect people. They do, but for many vaccinations, protection relies on herd immunity. Effectiveness in a *population* often requires mass (near universal) vaccination to best protect everyone. The more unvaccinated people, the worse the risk for everyone -- vaccinated or not. For each vaccine/disease, there is a tipping point below which vaccines are less useful.

 

I expect to see recommendations for vaccine intervals increasing as people have to work harder to protect themselves as herd immunity is waning. I.e., mumps vaccines x3 doses provides 90% protection, or x2 doses provides 80% protection. Up until now, the 2 dose regime has been sufficient for most populations, as folks *used to* nearly universally vaccinate.

 

As mumps rates increase, I expect to see more recommendations for getting a 3rd dose of MMR (or some subset of it), probably at age 16 or so, prior to heading off to college. My college kid is at Univ. Alabama, not a hotbed of special snowflakes, and in a region of the country where most people are well vaccinated. If my kid were heading off to an Ivy League or comparable school (special snowflake blizzard country) or if they were going to a super crunchy school in a region of the country with low vaccination rates, I'd be sure to get them an extra booster of MMR and whatever other vaccines the DR recommended, for the extra layer of protection. In fact, I have a friend with a kid at Columbia's sister school in NYC, and if I were her, I'd be getting that kid boosted for anything possible (and/or titers checked). That's just what I'd do for my kids, and I predict similar recommendations will be evolving in coming years until the trend towards no-vax is reversed (which I predict will happen as governments and schools become more aggressive about protecting their student bodies, etc.)

[TranquilMind]

No, it isn't contradictory.

 

Ther eis a level of vaccination required in the population in order to give herd immunity.  If I recall correctly it is somewhere between 80 - 90%, though it differes for different diseases.  Essentially, it is the number of people who need to be immune so that it isn't easy for it to spread quickly from one person or another.

 

With most of the common vaccines, that level is reached, even accounting for people who for some reason do not gain immunity, and those who cannot be vaccinated for health reasons, so long as almost everyone who can be vaccinated is.

 

But it doesn't necessarily take that many others suddenly being unvaccinated to lose herd immunity, to bring the number of immune down below 85% or whatever the number is.  In a place like a dorm or prison, it can be even less because the conditions are amenable to the spread of disease.

 

Assuming,  herd immunity is irrefutable fact.   Not all believe that, by any means.   There are rational arguments that contradict the currently popular idea of herd immunity arising from vaccination, instead of from exposure to the disease, as the term was originally used. 

 

From the article quoted below:  "The concept of “herd immunity†first materialized in the 1930s, when Johns Hopkins University’s Arthur Hedrich discovered that, after 55% of Baltimore’s population acquired measles (and thus immunity to measles), the rest of the population, or “herd,†became protected. This concept provides today’s rationale for insisting that everyone be vaccinated."

 

And (emphasis mine, and it sure was true in my own family, regarding chicken pox that I didn't get in my mid-forties, thanks to childhood exposure and immunity): 

"In fact, herd immunity — so elusive today — fully existed prior to the vaccine’s introduction. Virtually 100% of the population then contracted measles, typically as children, giving everyone lifelong immunity — and future mothers the means to protect their offspring. In mass vaccinating us, scientists of the 1960s didn’t realize that infecting us with the measles vaccine — a weak version of the natural measles virus — would give us a weak version of the defenses our bodies develop to the real thing.

 

Ironically, the Public Health Service considered measles generally benign in the pre-vaccine era. “Complications are infrequent and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare…. Immunity following recovery is solid and lifelong in duration,†its chief of epidemiology, Alexander Langmuir, acknowledged in “Epidemiologic basis for eradication of measles in 1967.â€

 

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/junk-science-week-vaccinating-the-herd

[TranquilMind]

Interesting.  I was titered while pregnant with #3 or #4 (not sure) and came back with chicken pox immunity.  I never got an actual case (though my mother made sure to expose me to every possible outbreak through the 80s) and I wasn't knowingly around anyone with them in the 2000s, which is when I was pregnant with those two.

Yep, that childhood exposure, unbeknownst to us at the time. saved the day. 

 

My mom didn't have to make sure to expose me.  Everyone got exposed whether they wanted to or not in a city of primarily large Catholic families living in tiny houses back in the mid-century. 

[TranquilMind]

It was not the front office--it was the senior pediatrician in the practice. If you still want to insist that I can make the office better for the next patient, knock yourself out, but nothing I could do would change anything. He knows he was a jerk; he just doesn't care.

 

Oh, well.  I must have missed that, but there is no way in hell I would let it pass.  Of course, I would make sure I was done with him first and he would have no opportunity to retaliate. :)

 

[TranquilMind]

I suggest you actually review what is meant and intended by herd immunity.

I suggest you read about the origin of the term, which I just stated in a longer post. 

[Bluegoat]

Assuming,  herd immunity is irrefutable fact.   Not all believe that, by any means.   There are rational arguments that contradict the currently popular idea of herd immunity arising from vaccination, instead of from exposure to the disease, as the term was originally used. 

 

From the article quoted below:  "The concept of “herd immunity†first materialized in the 1930s, when Johns Hopkins University’s Arthur Hedrich discovered that, after 55% of Baltimore’s population acquired measles (and thus immunity to measles), the rest of the population, or “herd,†became protected. This concept provides today’s rationale for insisting that everyone be vaccinated."

 

And (emphasis mine, and it sure was true in my own family, regarding chicken pox that I didn't get in my mid-forties, thanks to childhood exposure and immunity): 

"In fact, herd immunity — so elusive today — fully existed prior to the vaccine’s introduction. Virtually 100% of the population then contracted measles, typically as children, giving everyone lifelong immunity — and future mothers the means to protect their offspring. In mass vaccinating us, scientists of the 1960s didn’t realize that infecting us with the measles vaccine — a weak version of the natural measles virus — would give us a weak version of the defenses our bodies develop to the real thing.

 

Ironically, the Public Health Service considered measles generally benign in the pre-vaccine era. “Complications are infrequent and, with adequate medical care, fatality is rare…. Immunity following recovery is solid and lifelong in duration,†its chief of epidemiology, Alexander Langmuir, acknowledged in “Epidemiologic basis for eradication of measles in 1967.â€

 

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/junk-science-week-vaccinating-the-herd

 

You might want to consider that this is a seriously flawed article.  If everyone as they say is contracting the disease, then clearly there is no herd immunity, or that would stop and no more children, or at least very few, would get the disease.   

 

Which is to say, it is actually more complicated than that.

 

And given that measles is more likely to have serious poor outcomes than the vaccination for it, having everyone actually get measles to become immune seems like an odd choice.

[TranquilMind]

You might want to consider that this is a seriously flawed article.  If everyone as they say is contracting the disease, then clearly there is no herd immunity, or that would stop and no more children, or at least very few, would get the disease.   

 

Which is to say, it is actually more complicated than that.

 

And given that measles is more likely to have serious poor outcomes than the vaccination for it, having everyone actually get measles to become immune seems like an odd choice.

The rest are protected.  That is the point and the origin of "herd immunity". 

I'm part of the herd that was protected from chicken pox from early childhood exposure.  And my mother.  We have lifelong immunity just like those who got it.

 

That's not happening with vaccines. 

Measles were never considered serious in childhood until recently. 

[hornblower]

 

Measles were never considered serious in childhood until recently. 

 

Measles was and remains one of the leading causes of death among young children. 

[TranquilMind]

Measles was and remains one of the leading causes of death among young children. 

 

 

[hornblower]

Globally, TranquilMind.

 

 Globally it IS a major cause of children's death & historically it was. 

Given the poor vaccination rates & the looming end of the antibiotic age, it will be the case in developed countries as well in the future. 

 

[OnMyOwn]

Is getting a blood test to show they have titers good enough for college? I just took my son for a physical and he's only had one mmr and one varicella. He's fully vaxed other than that. Two years ago, we drew blood for titers on the mmr. I asked the ped if he should get either of those shots at this point and she discouraged it, saying that we can draw titers again before college.

[Matryoshka]

Is getting a blood test to show they have titers good enough for college? I just took my son for a physical and he's only had one mmr and one varicella. He's fully vaxed other than that. Two years ago, we drew blood for titers on the mmr. I asked the ped if he should get either of those shots at this point and she discouraged it, saying that we can draw titers again before college.

 

The forms I printed out from dd's college gave an option for date of vax or positive titer levels.  

 

(But no place to write in if there was a medical exemption...?)

[Ravin]

Measles was and remains one of the leading causes of death among young children. 

 

To take a middle ground in this controversy, measles is far more likely to cause death in young children if they are malnourished or otherwise health compromised at the time they catch it.

 

http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/content/19/2/70

 

However, 1% is still a fairly high fatality rate, high enough that if it can be further lowered by vaccinating, it makes sense to do so.

[Ravin]

Is getting a blood test to show they have titers good enough for college? I just took my son for a physical and he's only had one mmr and one varicella. He's fully vaxed other than that. Two years ago, we drew blood for titers on the mmr. I asked the ped if he should get either of those shots at this point and she discouraged it, saying that we can draw titers again before college.

 

There is no sane reason why proof of recent titers isn't sufficent in lieu of proof of a shot.

 

It's actually better, medically, as proof, because the efficacy of any individual immunization can be variable in the individual.

[creekland]

Measles was and remains one of the leading causes of death among young children. 

 

Adding support:

 

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

 

Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.

The disease remains one of the leading causes of death among young children globally, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine. Approximately 114 900 people died from measles in 2014 – mostly children under the age of 5.

Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family and it is normally passed through direct contact and through the air. The virus infects the mucous membranes, then spreads throughout the body. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals.

Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. During 2000-2014, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 17.1 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 79% from an estimated 546 800 in 2000 to 114 900 in 2014.

[Bluegoat]

The rest are protected.  That is the point and the origin of "herd immunity". 

I'm part of the herd that was protected from chicken pox from early childhood exposure.  And my mother.  We have lifelong immunity just like those who got it.

 

That's not happening with vaccines. 

Measles were never considered serious in childhood until recently. 

 

No, you are really not understanding what herd immunity is.  If all the kids get it, then there is not herd immunity.  If there was herd immunity, then most of those kids would be protected from the disease.

 

This is why today, someone not vaccinated for mumps probably won't get it.  Two generations ago, most kids got it.

 

The idea of herd immunity really got looked at after it was observed that in immunized populations, even unimmunized kids did not get the diseases, unlike what happened before.

 

If you look at any of the recent outbreaks of measles it is pretty clear why it is considered serious enough to have public vaccination campaigns.

[TranquilMind]

Measles was and remains one of the leading causes of death among young children. 

 

Source?  It isn't showing up on any list I found.  Just curious which source you are citing. 

 

[TranquilMind]

No, you are really not understanding what herd immunity is.  If all the kids get it, then there is not herd immunity.  If there was herd immunity, then most of those kids would be protected from the disease.

 

This is why today, someone not vaccinated for mumps probably won't get it.  Two generations ago, most kids got it.

 

The idea of herd immunity really got looked at after it was observed that in immunized populations, even unimmunized kids did not get the diseases, unlike what happened before.

 

If you look at any of the recent outbreaks of measles it is pretty clear why it is considered serious enough to have public vaccination campaigns.

 

Take it up with Arthur Hedrich.  He coined the term, not me. 

 

[Bluegoat]

Take it up with Arthur Hedrich.  He coined the term, not me. 

 

 

Yeah, I have no argument with him.

[TechWife]

You need to decide quickly because some vaccines you decide on may be series and may need to be given one month apart. You need time to get them in.

 

Actually, if the doctor devises a "catch up" schedule, that will be sufficient. Student health can do any vaccines that are due as well. 

[lllll]

nm

Edited May 16, 2016 by _ ?^..

[creekland]

Source?  It isn't showing up on any list I found.  Just curious which source you are citing. 

 

 

??? Did you miss the World Health Organization site I posted - actual link and what it stated?  I'll repost...

 

 

http://www.who.int/m...heets/fs286/en/

 

Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.

The disease remains one of the leading causes of death among young children globally, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine. Approximately 114 900 people died from measles in 2014 – mostly children under the age of 5.

Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family and it is normally passed through direct contact and through the air. The virus infects the mucous membranes, then spreads throughout the body. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals.

Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. During 2000-2014, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 17.1 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 79% from an estimated 546 800 in 2000 to 114 900 in 2014.

[katilac]

 

At any rate, it is contradictory to state that true protection relies on everyone being fully vaccinated, yet also state that 10-20% aren't immune anyway, vaccinated or not (and presumably some are immune, vaccinated or not). 

 

So then there isn't "true protection" in relying on vaccines, is there?  There are just better or worse odds.  Maybe. 

 

It's not contradictory - everyone being vaccinated helps lower the incidence of disease, whether or not 100% of the vaccinations are effective.

 

Are there just better and worse odds? Well, yes, of course, to some extent. Show me something in life that is 100% guaranteed and not better/worse odds. I'd take my odds of getting polio today versus my odds of getting it in the 1950s, that's for sure. 

 

  They've got to accept a medical exemption, though, no?  

 

They should accept a medical exemption, but she can still be banned from campus during an outbreak.

 

  Measles were never considered serious in childhood until recently. 

 

I would disagree with this. Measles was certainly treated seriously in order to avoid complications - bed rest, darkened room, careful monitoring. It was somewhat matter of course unless complications set in, but the great majority of people were extremely careful to do everything possible to lower the risk of complications. Life just didn't go on as normal for the kid with measles. 

[TechWife]

The forms I printed out from dd's college gave an option for date of vax or positive titer levels.  

 

(But no place to write in if there was a medical exemption...?)

 

Probably because a medical exemption isn't the norm and requires documentation. A doctor probably attaching a short letter of explanation would be the way to go for that one. Even then, I think it would be up to the college whether or not they recognized/accepted the medical exemption. 

 

College is very different than public schools. Generally speaking, they are much less accommodating of special circumstances - everything has to be proven to their satisfaction. 

 

ETA: Colleges aren't as accommodating because attending college isn't a right. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by TechWife

[brehon]

I remember that in my freshman year at my university sometime before registration for the spring semester began there was an outbreak of measles in one of the dorms. I don't remember how many students contracted the measles; however, many more were exposed, especially during the first few days/weeks. The university placed a bar on everyone's registration for the spring semester until we showed proof of a MMR (or measles) booster or evidence of having had the measles previously. I suppose there was a medical exemption, though I don't remember. The line out of the Student Health Center snaked around for blocks.

 

OP, if you decide not to vaccinate your ds (or he decides not to have vaccinations), be aware that if there is an outbreak of a communicable disease on his campus, the university may bar registrations or otherwise restrict student access until students show proof of vaccination, (+) titer within X amount of time, or proof of having had the disease.

[Seasider]

Yep, that childhood exposure, unbeknownst to us at the time. saved the day.

 

My mom didn't have to make sure to expose me. Everyone got exposed whether they wanted to or not in a city of primarily large Catholic families living in tiny houses back in the mid-century.

Do we have research showing the rates of death from chicken pox then and now? Because while that 100% immunity would apply to living people, wouldn't we have to look at the casualty rates, too? Also, how do we measure the people who might have died but didn't, because they were vaccinated? It doesn't seem like simply looking at rates of immunity pre versus post immunization eras are comparable on their own.

 

(I am not trying to be snarky, this is a sincere question.)

[Samiam]

Thanks all....all very interesting information that you've shared. 

 

We haven't done Flu shots ever  (and this son has attended public school for 9th-12th with 1600 students in the building).   Of course, that will eventually be his choice, but right now, he's happy to go along with whatever....he doesnt much care to put thought in to it...he's an 17 year old male.

 

We haven't done the Chicken Pox vaccine ever....I've never met or heard of a person who died from Chicken Pox.   Uncomfortable, yes, death, no.  And I am aware the adult version can be worse, and cause shingles.  Still a no for us.

 

The HPV...no.  

 

Measles, and Meningtiis...you've helped sway me..he needs to do those for sure.  And mumps, sounds like something too.  I will have to talk over the information with the health care provider we go to.  

 

I think you are right, I do need to make an effort to get his old medical records, just so we have it on hand.

[Tsuga]

Anti-vaccination is not a parenting type.

 

Opposing vaccines is to hold beliefs about the nature of science, and whether or not the CDC and World Health Organization is fundamentally mistaken in promoting immunization as a way to prevent death, pain, and disability by inoculating individuals against certain bacteria and viruses.

 

It's part of an overall worldview that in my opinion has caused many preventable deaths. Death happens but sometimes it is preventable.

 

I strongly urge you to reconsider your opinion on this and to realize that there are many of us who oppose untested GMOs, who eat organic, who live healthy lifestyles, who breastfed until 2 or over, who cloth diapered or EC'ed, who care very deeply about nature and life, who vaccinated.

 

Because just as sometimes, you have to have surgery to remove the tumor, sometimes, you have to teach the cells how to behave.

 

Or you die. And why? Just because someone at the playground had a bunch of pamphlets that were relatively well-written?

 

Please reconsider.

[J-rap]

Thanks all....all very interesting information that you've shared. 

 

We haven't done Flu shots ever  (and this son has attended public school for 9th-12th with 1600 students in the building).   Of course, that will eventually be his choice, but right now, he's happy to go along with whatever....he doesnt much care to put thought in to it...he's an 17 year old male.

 

We haven't done the Chicken Pox vaccine ever....I've never met or heard of a person who died from Chicken Pox.   Uncomfortable, yes, death, no.  And I am aware the adult version can be worse, and cause shingles.  Still a no for us.

 

The HPV...no.  

 

Measles, and Meningtiis...you've helped sway me..he needs to do those for sure.  And mumps, sounds like something too.  I will have to talk over the information with the health care provider we go to.  

 

I think you are right, I do need to make an effort to get his old medical records, just so we have it on hand.

 

If your children are older, you may want to even reconsider the chickenpox vaccine.  The older you are, the sicker you can be with it and the greater the risk of serious complications.  Also, when healthy people get the vaccine, it protects chronically ill people who are unable to get the vaccine, and the elderly.  

 

http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Chickenpox/chickenpoxfacts.aspx

[bettyandbob]

 

 

We haven't done the Chicken Pox vaccine ever....I've never met or heard of a person who died from Chicken Pox. Uncomfortable, yes, death, no. And I am aware the adult version can be worse, and cause shingles. Still a no for us.

 

 

My family does know someone who died from chicken pox. It was encephalitis that resulted from chicken pox.

 

Also, my SIL was not just uncomfortable, she had to be hospitalized for a few weeks. She developed a blood disorder from chicken pox. She missed so much school, they wanted to hold her back, but my MIL had taught SIL to read (first grade) so the school didn't hold her back.

 

Most people don't have complications, but complications are rather serious and not worth the risk to our family.

[MEmama]

 

My kids will never get Gardasil as long as I have any say about it. Way too many life-altering vaccine injuries with that one, and I believe some of the original researchers have publicly stated they don't think it's safe.

 

Amy

 

Can you elaborate? I've never heard a single negative thing about this.

 

I am not interested in "information" from anti vax sources. Only in real, scientific data.

[brehon]

Re: the varicella vax - what is usually an uncomfortable disease in young kids (young here meaning, oh, 4-10 or so) is *much* more likely to have serious complications in teens and, especially, adults. Encephalitis is nothing to sneeze at ot take lightly. There was a 12 yo boy in my 7th grade class who died from complications due to chicken pox.

 

Remember it's not always the mortality you need to look at; morbidity plays a huge role in people's lives.

[Soror]

If your children are older, you may want to even reconsider the chickenpox vaccine.  The older you are, the sicker you can be with it and the greater the risk of serious complications.  Also, when healthy people get the vaccine, it protects chronically ill people who are unable to get the vaccine, and the elderly.  

 

http://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-diseases/Chickenpox/chickenpoxfacts.aspx

My father in law is still getting over the shingles now. He has been mostly confined to his house sleeping and on pain pills for a month. Still awaiting word if his vision will be affected. He couldn't get a vaccine due to another treatment he was on. I had heard shingles was bad but never saw it up close, it has been absolutely brutal.

[Bluegoat]

My family does know someone who died from chicken pox. It was encephalitis that resulted from chicken pox.

 

Also, my SIL was not just uncomfortable, she had to be hospitalized for a few weeks. She developed a blood disorder from chicken pox. She missed so much school, they wanted to hold her back, but my MIL had taught SIL to read (first grade) so the school didn't hold her back.

 

Most people don't have complications, but complications are rather serious and not worth the risk to our family.

 

Not to mention is you see people who get shingles, it is absolutly miserable, and they can be so ill they can't work.  A friend of mine who is my age (39) had it last year.  Lucky for him he was on sabbatical at the time, but he was totally out of commission for about three weeks, and not himself for a while after that as well.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Bluegoat

[Bluegoat]

My kids will never get Gardasil as long as I have any say about it. Way too many life-altering vaccine injuries with that one, and I believe some of the original researchers have publicly stated they don't think it's safe.

 

Amy

 

Can you elaborate? I've never heard a single negative thing about this.

 

I am not interested in "information" from anti vax sources. Only in real, scientific data.

 

It would, I think, also be useful to look at data saying how many people end up at the ENT having things removed, or with cancers of the throat and nose, as well as various genital cancers.  It really doesn't require being promiscuous to contract HPV.

[MEmama]

It would, I think, also be useful to look at data saying how many people end up at the ENT having things removed, or with cancers of the throat and nose, as well as various genital cancers. It really doesn't require being promiscuous to contract HPV.

Oh, we vaccinate. DS will be getting the Gardasil at his next well visit. I was just curious about the pp's comment because everything I've heard about the vaccine is that it's totally safe (as far as they ever are), and the benefits seem clear to me. I was just wondering if she has facts (not hype) to back up her statement about it being unsafe.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thanks all....all very interesting information that you've shared. 

 

We haven't done Flu shots ever  (and this son has attended public school for 9th-12th with 1600 students in the building).   Of course, that will eventually be his choice, but right now, he's happy to go along with whatever....he doesnt much care to put thought in to it...he's an 17 year old male.

 

We haven't done the Chicken Pox vaccine ever....I've never met or heard of a person who died from Chicken Pox.   Uncomfortable, yes, death, no.  And I am aware the adult version can be worse, and cause shingles.  Still a no for us.

 

The HPV...no.  

 

Measles, and Meningtiis...you've helped sway me..he needs to do those for sure.  And mumps, sounds like something too.  I will have to talk over the information with the health care provider we go to.  

 

I think you are right, I do need to make an effort to get his old medical records, just so we have it on hand.

As a nurse I had a co-worker who took care of a young women who died due to chicken pox. In fact, chicken pox is more serious in teens and adults and may be more likely to affect the airway. According to the CDC:

 

Chickenpox (varicella) used to be very common in the United States before the chickenpox vaccine became available in 1995. In the early 1990s, an average of 4 million people got chickenpox, 10,500 to 13,000 were hospitalized (range, 8,000 to 18,000), and 100 to 150 died each year.

 

Another site says this:

 

Early symptoms may include body aches, fever, fatigue, and irritability, followed by a rash that develops into as many as 250-500 itchy blisters over the entire body. The rash may even spread into the mouth or other internal parts of the body. The rash usually lasts for five to seven days. The illness is usually not severe, but the risk of hospitalization and death is increased among adults and adolescents. Symptoms appear between 10 and 21 days after exposure to the virus. - See more at: http://www.adultvaccination.org/vpd/chickenpox/facts.html#sthash.4azlkb36.dpuf

 

So yeah, I would not skip the chicken pox vaccine at all nor others.

[Bluegoat]

Oh, we vaccinate. DS will be getting the Gardasil at his next well visit. I was just curious about the pp's comment because everything I've heard about the vaccine is that it's totally safe (as far as they ever are), and the benefits seem clear to me. I was just wondering if she has facts (not hype) to back up her statement about it being unsafe.

 

My thought was just that it is one thing to say "this drug has this risk" but it isn't even that useful unless you compare it to the outcomes without the drug.  From what I understand HPV is almost as serious as tobacco as a cause of cancer.  That is nothing to sneeze at - people are willing to take serious drugs to stop smoking.

 

As far as I can tell there is nothing that isn't from an anti-vax site that is really questioning it's safety.  I don't tend to accept hard science as the only good way to get information, but the stuff that seems to be out there saying it is unsafe seems very questionable to me.

 

I know when it came out, there were questions around the fact that it does not protect against all strains.  Some wondered if what would happen is that while those strains became less common, other uncommon strains would take their place - this is something that is not unheard of I guess.  I don't know if it has really been long enough to have any clear answer about that.

[hornblower]

 

 

My kids will never get Gardasil as long as I have any say about it. Way too many life-altering vaccine injuries with that one, and I believe some of the original researchers have publicly stated they don't think it's safe.

 

Amy

The claim that one of the researches thinks it's not safe is a myth. She had concerns about the EFFICACY of the vaccine & its cost/benefit calculations, not its safety. 

 

"

• Dr. Ben Goldacre .. interviewed Dr Harper after the antivaccine world exploded with this information. She told Goldacre that “I fully support the HPV vaccines. I believe that in general they are safe in most women.

....

 

She says we do not know how the protection from the vaccines will last, and this might affect a cost-benefit decision about the vaccine. She is not saying that it’s a safety vs. benefit question, merely that the cost of an HPV immunization program, if the effect of the vaccine is not long enough, could mean that it is too expensive for the expected results. "

 

about half way down this page http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/gardasil-researcher-really-against-vaccine/

Edited May 11, 2016 by hornblower

[MEmama]

The claim that one of the researches thinks it's not safe is a myth. She had concerns about the EFFICACY of the vaccine & its cost/benefit calculations, not its safety.

 

"

• Dr. Ben Goldacre .. interviewed Dr Harper after the antivaccine world exploded with this information. She told Goldacre that “I fully support the HPV vaccines. I believe that in general they are safe in most women.

....

She says we do not know how the protection from the vaccines will last, and this might affect a cost-benefit decision about the vaccine. She is not saying that it’s a safety vs. benefit question, merely that the cost of an HPV immunization program, if the effect of the vaccine is not long enough, could mean that it is too expensive for the expected results. "

 

about half way down this page http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/gardasil-researcher-really-against-vaccine/

Thanks for the link. It confirmed what I thought I already knew. ;)

[Mom-ninja.]

I used to be anti-vax. I'm not anymore. My kids now get all their shots when they need them. 

[lllll]

nm

Edited May 16, 2016 by _ ?^..

[creekland]

Just a rabbit trail regarding the flu vaccine...

 

I was very against it for years and I've never actually gotten the flu even with following right behind teachers with it and having contact with students who had it, so it seemed to be a no-brainer that I, personally, didn't need it.

 

I changed my mind 3-4 years ago after reading an article that suggested folks like me could have it, but just have a good enough immune system to not show symptoms.  We could unwittingly give it to others as carriers.  I don't know if that is still considered possible or if it's been debunked, but that year I decided there were no real downsides to getting the vaccine (for me - no reactions to vaccines, etc), so why not?

 

I still see no downside at all TBH.  My body handles vaccines just fine.  As I get older I could conceivably have more immune issues and need the help, so that's a plus.  Or perhaps I'm helping others avoid it by not passing it on.  Who knows?  With no downsides and potential positives, I've gotten the shot every year since with no regrets.

 

My college students opt for it.  They can't take the chance of missing class if it might have helped.

 

Regarding other vaccs, I was very glad I kept my DTP shot up to date when my mom and hubby managed to get whooping cough a few years back (separate times).  They were miserable with it.  Since this is a vaccine thread, it might be wise if we adults also considered where our status is on some of these.

[lovinmyboys]

I am confused as to why you wouldn't do the chicken pox. I can understand not vaxxing a young child for it, but by high school I think it should be given. It is much more serious in adults. He probably won't die from it if he catches it, but he will likely miss class/be miserable for 2 weeks.

[ktgrok]

We decided to do chicken pox for my teen once he learned that you could get pox on your EYES!

[Samiam]

I am confused as to why you wouldn't do the chicken pox. I can understand not vaxxing a young child for it, but by high school I think it should be given. It is much more serious in adults. He probably won't die from it if he catches it, but he will likely miss class/be miserable for 2 weeks.

 

Welll..the thing is, I've been anti-vaccination long enough to know how these conversations go...those who are against versus those who aren't....and I've already seen it in this conversation to a mild degree (thankfully it stayed pretty civil!).   My question was directed to those that had been in a similiar situation as I am in.  Though all the responses from those that chimed in were helpful, even if many had not been in the same situation at all, and even if it did feel like some were REALLY pro-vaccination and wanted to push me that way.  I won't be pushed blindly.   I am sorry you are confused.  But I  don't have to clarify my stance to you...and I won't.  I always welcome you to do your own research on each individual vaccination though, and make the choice that is best for your family, while I do the same for my own.  That should clear up any confusion for you.  That we made the best decision for us, and you did the same.

[lovinmyboys]

I don't care either way. I was just thinking he is more likely to contact chicken pox than measles and I hear much more controversy about the MMR than I do the chicken pox vaccine. I don't think I personally know anyone that got the MMR but not the chicken pox vaccine, but obviously I don't go around verifying anyone's immunization status.

 

I wasn't really confused as to why you wouldn't do chicken pox, so much as why you would do measles but not chicken pox. Of course, you are under no obligation to explain your reasoning to me.

Edited May 12, 2016 by lovinmyboys

[kubiac]

Whooping cough would also absolutely ruin a semester at school. It's called the 100-day cough for a reason. I've always wondered what happens to the money paid by the kids that have to stop out because they get Mono. Do they get a tuition credit or is that just dollars down the drain?

[Tsuga]

Sickness is always to some extent dollars down the drain but you can advocate for an incomplete and make it up later.