Don't shoot me, but why, again, was Prince so great?

[Haiku]

Well shoot, I let my kids listen to Queen all the time, so the earth is doomed.  :p

 

Aren't you worried that they'll catch the gays from this?

[SKL]

Aren't you worried that they'll catch the gays from this?

 

I think it's the best way to introduce them to the fact that we can respect people who are very different from us.  They know he died of AIDS, but they don't know exactly how he caught AIDS yet.  When they learn, they will know that didn't affect my opinion of him, and it probably won't affect theirs.  Talent is talent.

 

My kids' theater teacher already introduced them to the reality that homosexuality exists.  No biggie.

[clementine]

I understand what you're getting at here. My grandfather would've said that PP had lemons in her fingers, typing that. (Ok, he'd have said in her mouth but that doesn't translate to a message board.). That post struck a nerve here, too because it was in response to a question about what's great about Prince... This may be off topic a bit, but that post and a few others made me think of my intro to message boards, on a serious peer support board run by a life coach. Our mantra was *not* to post unless it would be of help in some way to the OP. How many times over ten years of peer counseling did I type and delete?! :) I don't always succeed, but I try to maintain that here, too.

 

Like him, love him, hate him - Prince was extremely talented, diverse, and a genius in his field. He shaped a genre, and influenced lives. He did great things, for many people. I don't know as much about him as many, but I did see him perform one time, after winning tickets, and it was an astounding experience. Such a talented performer, I had no idea!

 

I don't care for country music, but when an icon of country music dies, I can appreciate the loss of someone who shaped a genre.

 

When a recent well known figure died, one on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me, I did not denigrate him or imply that people grieving his loss were somehow wrong to do so. I'm not sure why the people who feel they must say negative things feel that need.

Spot on.  

[Happy2BaMom]

 

Little Red Corvette (which I mentioned was one of my favorite Prince songs) was not about Sunday School either.

 

 

It was about a car, though, right??? Right????? 

 

Someone please tell me it WAS about the car.......

 

:lol:

[KungFuPanda]

I loved that tiny man and I love his music.

 

I do t generally care about celebrities and my music tastes are insanely eclectic, but Bowie passing shook me a bit and Prince . . . I'm just SAD.

 

I teach dance classes and almost always have a prince song in my warm up or fitness sections. He had a lot of stuff that's high energy but not too fast for technique drills.

[SKL]

It was about a car, though, right??? Right????? 

 

Someone please tell me it WAS about the car.......

 

:lol:

 

She had a pocket full of horses - Trojan and some of them used.  (Or did I hear that wrong?)

 

[KungFuPanda]

This thread is so odd. I can't think of anyone else who gets a 'eh he's not so good ' thread within a week of dying.

 

Just looking at recent deaths - we didn't get this for Bowie. Michael. Whitney . And of that list I would have thought Prince was the least divisive- not a junkie, no scandals, not even a lightning rod spouse. Just music.

That's the way it is here. There might not be dedicated threads, but I'm sure it exists somewhere in conversation. Someone ALWAYS says "I don't get why people like ______. I never cared for it/him/her/them."

[poppy]

I don't have a problem with someone stating that they didn't like him, or his lyrics. Or posting those lyrics, early or late, as an example of why she doesn't like him. And it's fine not to consider him great, good, or even worth listening to. That's the world of free opinion.

 

But the OP asked why Prince is considered great, which he is, by a great many people. Some of us have tried to answer her question directly.

The first post was saying she didn't like his music, or his style of music, and once she thought she liked his work but turned out it was a Beatles cover. And the conversation went on with a bunch of people agreeing with her. It's fine to not like any musician , just weird to have this conversation within a day of the funeral. Especially because he died relatively young and healthy.

 

When Scalia died, I thought 'how sad for his family' and I think I posted that those politicizing his death were employing poor taste. Before he died , and now that it's a few months later ? Totally happy to tell you how much of a non fan I was of that particular Justice.

 

Anyway.

Someone in his crew said that his death was tied to his stage work. All that time jumping off risers wearing heeled boots led to hip and back issues ( then painkiller overdose). I don't know if that's true, but it makes sense. I don't think he was a trained dancer. Hopefully Beyoncé wears better shoes and has a sprung dance floor on her stage.

Edited April 26, 2016 by poppy

[Happy2BaMom]

I'm personally impressed that a 5'2" black man was a worldwide success before he was 30. 
 

I mean, the excuses he could have used.....middle school could not have been easy.....

[Happy2BaMom]

OK, obviously I have nothing better to do today, BBBBUUUUUUTTTT.....

 

Does anyone know what this lyric really means, from the song "Let's Go Crazy":

 

"Let's look for the purple banana

'Til they put us in the truck, let's go!"

 

I've always wondered where that lyric came from.

 

Or is there some obscure sexual reference that my relatively naive, middle-aged brain is completely not grasping here?

[umsami]

OK, obviously I have nothing better to do today, BBBBUUUUUUTTTT.....

 

Does anyone know what this lyric really means, from the song "Let's Go Crazy":

 

"Let's look for the purple banana

'Til they put us in the truck, let's go!"

 

I've always wondered where that lyric came from.

 

Or is there some obscure sexual reference that my relatively naive, middle-aged brain is completely not grasping here?

 

Hmmm.... well, most of the lyrics (to me) are understandable....but this part is truly weird.

 

My guess... look for the purple banana is perhaps looking for something rare (of course it could refer to something sexual).  I really don't know.  Nothing else in the song is sexual, though, from what I remember.

[flyingiguana]

It was about a car, though, right??? Right????? 

 

Someone please tell me it WAS about the car.......

 

:lol:

Well, that too.

[EmseB]

I seriously doubt he would want to be remembered for that song.

Did he disavow it publicly or something? And, like it or not, he is remembered by some for that song. It's part of his career. You can't erase it in order to make him look like something different because you don't like that part of his work.

 

To be honest, I can appreciate Prince's prolific career, and his ability as a performer and musician, but none of his song lyrics seem to be much beyond standard pop twaddle. Kinda like Bruno Mars. I think that guy works amazingly hard, and his music is catchy, and he's talented, but it's not deep or profound or really anything but easy stuff to like and listen to.

 

And with Prince, before his death I had heard more than one story about his entitled, demanding attitude toward people he worked with (charitably noted as him being "eccentric"), and he seems like your standard celebrity to me -- talent, yes, hard-working, yes, but worthy of veneration and censoring his old stuff to preserve his name? As if somehow typing lyrics to an old song of his is just horrible and should be deleted so as not to sully him? I don't get it.

[EmseB]

That's the way it is here. There might not be dedicated threads, but I'm sure it exists somewhere in conversation. Someone ALWAYS says "I don't get why people like ______. I never cared for it/him/her/them."

Is that bad? Can we not discuss that? I seriously do not understand the idea that the only people who are allowed to comment are those who loved the guy.

[Scarlett]

Did he disavow it publicly or something? And, like it or not, he is remembered by some for that song. It's part of his career. You can't erase it in order to make him look like something different because you don't like that part of his work.

 

To be honest, I can appreciate Prince's prolific career, and his ability as a performer and musician, but none of his song lyrics seem to be much beyond standard pop twaddle. Kinda like Bruno Mars. I think that guy works amazingly hard, and his music is catchy, and he's talented, but it's not deep or profound or really anything but easy stuff to like and listen to.

 

And with Prince, before his death I had heard more than one story about his entitled, demanding attitude toward people he worked with (charitably noted as him being "eccentric"), and he seems like your standard celebrity to me -- talent, yes, hard-working, yes, but worthy of veneration and censoring his old stuff to preserve his name? As if somehow typing lyrics to an old song of his is just horrible and should be deleted so as not to sully him? I don't get it.

Well I don't think my feelings about the post with the Nikki lyrics are really coming through.

[Happy2BaMom]

Did he disavow it publicly or something? And, like it or not, he is remembered by some for that song. It's part of his career. You can't erase it in order to make him look like something different because you don't like that part of his work.

 

To be honest, I can appreciate Prince's prolific career, and his ability as a performer and musician, but none of his song lyrics seem to be much beyond standard pop twaddle. Kinda like Bruno Mars. I think that guy works amazingly hard, and his music is catchy, and he's talented, but it's not deep or profound or really anything but easy stuff to like and listen to.

 

And with Prince, before his death I had heard more than one story about his entitled, demanding attitude toward people he worked with (charitably noted as him being "eccentric"), and he seems like your standard celebrity to me -- talent, yes, hard-working, yes, but worthy of veneration and censoring his old stuff to preserve his name? As if somehow typing lyrics to an old song of his is just horrible and should be deleted so as not to sully him? I don't get it.

 

Fine. You don't like him and don't think he's worth much. 

 

And, um, at least a couple of us spoke up that it was fine for people to bring up everything and thing everything, including old songs. So I don't think there is a conspiracy here to "censor his old stuff" or "preserve his name". 

 

Again, the OP asked why Prince is/was considered great. NOT - "Do each one of you personally think Prince was great?" 

[DesertBlossom]

Yes, and some people just enjoy throwing turds and then running off.

I just love the imagery there. :) Though I don't think that's what anyone is doing here. I know he just passed away, but I still think we can have a civil conversation about it.

 

I only opened this thread because I was curious and then had to start googling. I had a vague idea of he was was and it sounds like he was a talented musician. I can't play one instrument well, let alone 20. And it's a breath of fresh air to find out he was also quite charitable. However talented or charitable he may have been, the messages he is sending through his lyrics are not uplifting or inspiring... at least *my* definition of inspiring. But I am also pretty selective about the media that I listen to and watch in general. I've turned off the TV for much tamer stuff.

[Haiku]

My kids' theater teacher already introduced them to the reality that homosexuality exists.  No biggie.

 

Well, yes. I was making a joke.

[Slojo]

This thread is so odd. I can't think of anyone else who gets a 'eh he's not so good ' thread within a week of dying.

 

Just looking at recent deaths - we didn't get this for Bowie. Michael. Whitney . And of that list I would have thought Prince was the least divisive- not a junkie, no scandals, not even a lightning rod spouse. Just music.

I kind of agree. Do you (and I'm not referring to the OP at this point) want to genuinely know the answer or not? Was the question just a set up for the "pick apart?" Look, Prince was absolutely banned in my house as a middle schooler and teen, so I literally did not grow up listening to Prince. Sure a song or two slipped in, but he was not my teenaged heart throb. But, the longetivity, range of talent, and imprint on modern pop cultural music is undeniable. And sounds like the dude did as much as anyone with that kind of privilege on the humanitarian front. 

 

If you don't like the lyrics (and some of them make me blush, but I clutch my pearls and move on because... umm, he was a rocker, and, umm, goes with the territory of rockers), okay, fine. If his lyrics or lifestyle or the fact that he had too many nose hairs knocks him out of the running for you, so be it...but it's a bit of a strange bar to clear given his "rock and roll" profession.

 

And the weird sidebar into Mandela's "dark side" (totally glossing over the flipping total cosmic eclipse that was apartheid itself -- BUT I CLEARLY DIGRESS about a digression on a thread about a pop icon and not about the enduring and nearly intractrable forces of oppression in modern times that apartheid represented...). To see that in the middle of the thread was a "what fresh hell...?' moment for me. That was a whole 'nother level of "Kevin Bacon" degrees of separation. Bizarre!

 

I understand what you're getting at here. My grandfather would've said that PP had lemons in her fingers, typing that. (Ok, he'd have said in her mouth but that doesn't translate to a message board.). That post struck a nerve here, too because it was in response to a question about what's great about Prince... This may be off topic a bit, but that post and a few others made me think of my intro to message boards, on a serious peer support board run by a life coach. Our mantra was *not* to post unless it would be of help in some way to the OP. How many times over ten years of peer counseling did I type and delete?! :) I don't always succeed, but I try to maintain that here, too.

 

Like him, love him, hate him - Prince was extremely talented, diverse, and a genius in his field. He shaped a genre, and influenced lives. He did great things, for many people. I don't know as much about him as many, but I did see him perform one time, after winning tickets, and it was an astounding experience. Such a talented performer, I had no idea!

 

I don't care for country music, but when an icon of country music dies, I can appreciate the loss of someone who shaped a genre.

 

When a recent well known figure died, one on the opposite side of the political spectrum from me, I did not denigrate him or imply that people grieving his loss were somehow wrong to do so. I'm not sure why the people who feel they must say negative things feel that need.

"Lemons in her fingers..." never heard it, but using it with impunity now! ;-) (if only in my head). 

 

It was about a car, though, right??? Right????? 

 

Someone please tell me it WAS about the car.......

 

:lol:

That's what my kids think when they heard it on the radio - and I didn't correct them! They love Corvettes! 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Slojo

[KungFuPanda]

Is that bad? Can we not discuss that? I seriously do not understand the idea that the only people who are allowed to comment are those who loved the guy.

Don't ask me. I didn't say it was bad. I said it always happens.

[poppy]

OK, obviously I have nothing better to do today, BBBBUUUUUUTTTT.....

 

Does anyone know what this lyric really means, from the song "Let's Go Crazy":

 

"Let's look for the purple banana

'Til they put us in the truck, let's go!"

 

I've always wondered where that lyric came from.

 

Or is there some obscure sexual reference that my relatively naive, middle-aged brain is completely not grasping here?

I think put us in the truck = take us to the looney bin.

 

As for purple banana, for Prince , purple is a spiritual or holy color. I have no idea why banana . But i don't think that particular reference is dirty . I think it's more 'let's seek God til they say we're nuts' than anything else.

[poppy]

Is that bad? Can we not discuss that? I seriously do not understand the idea that the only people who are allowed to comment are those who loved the guy.

Anyone is allowed to comment. Of course. I personally don't think it's .... kind to use this period of bereavement as a reason to bring up negative things about someone. If Peyton Manning keeled over tonight, tomorrow is not when if start a 'this guy was seriously overrated amiright?' thread.

 

Especially if the person in question didn't do anything really wrong. You know? Now if a serial killer dies, then all bets are off , no need for the standard period of polite restraint.

[clementine]

OK, obviously I have nothing better to do today, BBBBUUUUUUTTTT.....

 

Does anyone know what this lyric really means, from the song "Let's Go Crazy":

 

"Let's look for the purple banana

'Til they put us in the truck, let's go!"

 

I've always wondered where that lyric came from.

 

Or is there some obscure sexual reference that my relatively naive, middle-aged brain is completely not grasping here?

 

Since purple was Prince's favorite color, here is my take:  

 

Let's do something happy & fun (look for the purple banana) that will make everyone think we're nuts, until we have to live a boring, mundane adult life (like a looney bin would be).   ??  

 

I have no idea - I just sing without thinking.  Half the time I don't even know the real words.   :lol:

[Alicia64]

It was about a car, though, right??? Right????? 

 

Someone please tell me it WAS about the car.......

 

:lol:

 

I was SO naive as a teen that I totally thought the song was about a car!!

 

Welcome to me.

 

Alley

[ErinE]

Prince created a variety of songs. Some shocking, others pop oriented. Personally, I wouldn't have considered "Darling Nikki" his most risque.

 

My favorite song of his is 7. Here's an excerpt:

 

There will be a new city with streets of gold

The young so educated they never grow old

There will be no death, for with every breath,

A voice of many colors sings a song 

That's so bold

Sing it while we watch them fall

 

 

[Scarlett]

Sorry, I wasn't talkin g specifically about you.😀 There's been sexual innuendo in songs from the beginning of time, there are phrases that people know to be about sex in songs and literature ( ploughing a damp field, IIRC, is one example), there's quite a bit of sex talk in the Bible. Of course a rock singer in the 80's would feel pretty much at ease singing more explicit lyrics. And yes, not everyone finds the same things inspirational.

As for Seeking posting the lyrics as some sort of proof? Baloney. Masturbation is not a sin. I'm going to take a wild guess that she's even done it! Remember how crazy the old farts got when Elvis shook his hips? Not much difference here from some. And I seriously doubt Prince ever felt remorseful for writing those songs. He was a performer, and if you listen to his albums it becomes obvious that he was commenting on many things in society.

I do think he was remorseful about some stuff he wrote. I saw a clip where he said he was wild in his youth and for others to not take that path.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I was never a huge Prince fan, although he does have a couple of songs that are among my personal favorites.  But when I started reading about the songs he wrote for others I quickly realized I was a bigger fan of his musical talent than I ever knew.

[Audrey]

I'll be the one to come right out and say it: He wasn't so great.

 

You aren't a musician in any way at all, are you?  If you were, you would already know the impact he has had popular music, songwriting, producing and the intellectual property of music/musicians.  I don't know any musicians who don't give some props to Prince even when his style and genre are very far removed from theirs.   He played everything, too.  He was a real musician's musician.  A great one. Absolutely.

[Audrey]

That's heartbreaking. I've read so much about her lack of actual help, and always consider it a farce about her becoming a saint. It's a shame at what mindless religion can do.

I know Prince helped many people without asking for any acknowledgement. I think that's even part of the Bible? Or maybe it's an important part of being a JW. Either way it's a reflection on his own religious character.

 

I believe it is also a Jewish ideal -- that philanthropy be given freely with no expectation of thanks or reward.  It's a philosophy I admire greatly. 

[Audrey]

Yes...what a great song...

 

"Darling Nikki"

I knew a girl named Nikki

 

 

(rest of lyrics snipped -- respect to Scarlett)

 

 

I do happen to think it's a great song.

 

Have you listened to the music?  Fantastic guitar solo and a really intricate back beat that's been sampled dozens of times (and more) by later artists.  There's more to music than the words, darlin'.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Audrey

[katilac]

Yes...what a great song...

 

"Darling Nikki"

I knew a girl named Nikki 

 

 

Yes, great song! I started singing the minute I read the opening lyrics. 

 

I commend your effort in not only looking up but typing all the lyrics. May it give you sweet dreams tonight  :tongue_smilie:

[Elfknitter.#]

In 1996, Oprah interviewed Prince. Toward the end of this clip, she asks him what does he want to be remembered for. He answers, "The music."

 

Like or dislike, understand or not, it does seem that some are doing exactly that.

 

I echo the poster who wonders why Bowie's death didn't bring forth such a thread. I can understand not liking the music or lyrics, but do not understand how one can dismiss demonstrated talent on multiple instruments or songwriting abilities.

 

And (donning tomato suit), I prefer the Foo Fighters version of Darling Nikki to Prince's.

[LucyStoner]

Someone asked Eric Clapton what it was like to be the greatest guitar player in the world and he replied "I don't know. Ask Prince."

 

If one really appreciates great instrumentalists and pays as much attention to the music and skill with the instrument as to the lyrics, they can generally see the greatness of Prince even if they aren't a fan of his specific music.

[rainbird2]

I'm a classical musician, and I have a very difficult time listening to pop music.  The standard I - V chords with the painfully redundant motifs are an insult to music, and make me wonder about the future of mankind.  Do people not understand that a diet of most of the pop music out there will kill you?  I mean, it's like eating pop rocks and Skittles for every meal.  I find the lack of creativity, lack of talent for actually playing an instrument (besides the standard I-IV-V chords that some "singers" learn so they can pretend to accompany themselves at their concerts), and complete lack of understanding of how music is organized...or even what the definition of music IS, is baffling.  This is all entertainment.  Ear candy.  It will rot the brain, folks. 

 

Prince was no pop rocks and Skittles.  Listen to him play the piano.  The chordal progressions and rhythms were influenced by jazz, and spread over keys and modes.  He had to know how music is organized in order to play the way he did.  And, I believe, he was self taught. 

 

The epitome of fine instrument playing is that of imitating the human voice (the first instrument).  Listen to Prince's guitar solos.  Even with an untrained ear, one can hear his "voice" within the guitar.  His voice is expressive, beautiful, and one of his own.  He isn't copying anyone else's style...he has made his own.  If you want to hear a comparison, listen to a young guitarist play a Suzuki guitar piece at a studio recital.  Just youtube a video.  I promise you, you will hear a difference.  That Suzuki guitarist has not developed his own "voice".  It  is very, very difficult for any instrumentalist to do so.

 

Prince combined the music, the instruments, the culture of his time, and created something unique and impressionable. This is something that only a true musical genius, an artist, can create.  Sorry, folks, but Bieber ain't doing that. 

 

Last, his confidence and boldness brought his music to a different level.  He was a captivating performer.  I don't have much respect for most entertainers (that claim to be musicians), but Prince...he definitely was an artist in my book.  Like Bowie, he will be a loss to his era of music.

 

(I just watched his SNL performance (Chris Rock as host), and that man was incredible. )

Edited April 27, 2016 by rainbird2

[Bluegoat]

I think there were a few people on the Bowie thread who said they didn't really get why his music was so important.

 

I don't really have an issue with that, it isn't to me like saying the person is better off dead or made the world a terrible place. 

 

And while posting lurics mainly to be unpleasent might not be totally kind, I do think it's reasonable to say - I don't think his lyrics lived up to what I would consider a great songwriter.  For some people the words are more important than the musical contribution.

 

I don't think we'll have a good idea of which pop musicians will really stand the test of time for a while.  We can make guesses, and we can see their influence in the short term, but in 100 years it could look different.  I tend to think Prince would be more likely to make the 100 year mark than Bowie.

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Bluegoat

[Haiku]

However, when someone posted this question about why is he so great, I felt like it was ok to post why he was not.

But you didn't do that. You just stated that he wasn't great and posted some song lyrics.

[MercyA]

seekinghim, I agree that the lyrics of some of Prince's songs are vulgar. That said, when I pass, I devoutly hope I'm not judged as a person for something I wrote 32 years before. I did some googling last night. Apparently after he became a Jehovah's Witness, Prince publicly criticized sexually explicit lyrics and cursing in music. He also mentioned being celibate. I found his comments from a New Yorker interview in 2008 interesting:

 

Recently, Prince hosted an executive who works for Philip Anschutz, the Christian businessman whose company owns the Staples Center. "We started talking red and blue,†Prince said. “People with money—money like that—are not affected by the stock market, and they’re not freaking out over anything. They’re just watching. So here’s how it is: you’ve got the Republicans, and basically they want to live according to this.†He pointed to a Bible. “But there’s the problem of interpretation, and you’ve got some churches, some people, basically doing things and saying it comes from here, but it doesn’t. And then on the opposite end of the spectrum you’ve got blue, you’ve got the Democrats, and they’re, like, ‘You can do whatever you want.’ Gay marriage, whatever. But neither of them is right.â€

 

When asked about his perspective on social issues—gay marriage, abortion—Prince tapped his Bible and said, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’

 

I do love some of Prince's music, both because it's part of the soundtrack of my youth and because he was a musical genius. And I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with him that neither the Republicans or the Democrats have it right.  ;)

[poppy]

Well, because the only thread that I ever saw was the one saying, oh no he is dead.  I don't feel like it is appropriate to post on those threads because people are mourning the death of someone and they are a person after all.  It is sad when anyone dies.  I stay off of those threads out of respect. 

 

However, when someone posted this question about why is he so great, I felt like it was ok to post why he was not. I have equal feelings about Bowie and Michael Jackson.  I did not type all of those lyrics.  I went to a lyric site and copied and pasted them.  I use lyric sites all the time for the songs I sing to accompaniment tracks.  In the age of  getting them from itunes instead of with a cd with lyrics included, I just go to the lyric sites and print them off.  Just FYI to those who were impressed.  You just google any song you want and you can find the lyrics to it. It took 5 seconds.   

 

I also don't really see why one would respect "It's sad Bowie died" but then use "Eh, I'm not sad Prince died" as a way to show how much you disliked him as well?   I don't exactly approach life in a WWJD way, but I guess I am old fashioned about deaths.

 

 

 

I don't think we'll have a good idea of which pop musicians will really stand the test of time for a while.  We can make guesses, and we can see their influence in the short term, but in 100 years it could look different.  I tend to think Prince would be more likely to make the 100 year mark than Bowie.

 

I think they'll both be there.  Unlike, say,  Lemmy, who was also really good and quite influential (heavy metal fans know) but never had a cultural touchstone moment.  

 

The other thing about both Prince and Bowie is that they played with androgyny in a way that made a whole lot of people uncomfortable.   I think reactions to Prince's death reflect that.  Prince was closer to many poster's age. And he was ethnically a little .... confusing for white 1980s American.  I remember people trying to figure out if he was Puerto Rican or black or what back in the day.  And he pushed boundaries with his image that made people uncomfortable, in a way Bowie never did. Bowie was effortlessly elegant so he could "get away" with a bit more, I think. So I think those factors all contribute to the pushback.

[Slojo]

But you didn't do that. You just stated that he wasn't great and posted some song lyrics.

 

It may be that there is a divide between those who think that the song lyrics need to pass some standard of virtue in their mind, and those for whom the song lyrics aren't relevant (or perhaps are relevant, and just disagree on their quality). As best I can tell, many of the folks in the "Prince was not so great" category struggle with the lyrics and messages/values those lyrics might convey. Some on the style as well -- "never got into it" --- but neither of those is really exactly about "greatness." Technical skill, body of work over time, longevity, range (20 flipping instruments - really, who does that?); lots of songs that got played in different "genres" or musicians associated with very different types of music), unique contribution, imprint on others' music, "ubiquitousness" (is the music "everywhere"), number of fans, record/ticket sales, etc... I think those are the criteria against which musicians are being judged, with various people weighting those things differently. Lyrics are important, in my opinion, but a little fuzzier -- what makes for good lyrics? I don't know - mostly I think "sticking power", do they stick with you/ are they catchy? That's the point of lyrics in pop culture, and Prince was nothing if not "catchy" in his lyrics (when my 20 year old niece and I know the same lyrics, the song was catchy).

 

Classical Celtic music may not be my thing, but I can recognize "greatness" either by understanding something about the technical skill it takes to deliver a beautiful, robust Celtic piece or relying on others who might know something about it. Prince seemed like a musician's musician, with a wide range of folks who really know music paying tribute to his skill, prolific career, and range. When great guitarists put him in the "great guitarist category" or lyricists say "no way that the majority of people are writing as many songs that become hits as Prince did" or the "top charts reviewers" say 20 or more hits (or whatever the number is) is rare, seems like that's as objective an argument for "great" as one can get. Any individual is welcomed to disagree based on personal taste or some bad experience they had related to the artist's music or that "Celtic ballads are not my thing", but don't be surprised if "folks in the know" don't think you know much about music (and I say this as someone who doesn't know much about music). 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Slojo

[Slojo]

The other thing about both Prince and Bowie is that they played with androgyny in a way that made a whole lot of people uncomfortable.   I think reactions to Prince's death reflect that.  Prince was closer to many poster's age. And he was ethnically a little .... confusing for white 1980s American.  I remember people trying to figure out if he was Puerto Rican or black or what back in the day.  And he pushed boundaries with his image that made people uncomfortable, in a way Bowie never did. Bowie was effortlessly elegant so he could "get away" with a bit more, I think. So I think those factors all contribute to the pushback.

I think Bowie was great. And I would add to the "effortlessly elegant" that Bowie was also effortlessly white -- which also had something to do with what he could get away with. Prince's debut among white audiences was a much "slower winning them over" over time, a hurdle Bowie didn't have (and a hurdle Bowie acknowledged and publicly challenged on several occasions, including in the 80's when he challenged the MTV producers on why they didn't play black artists back in the day, of which Prince was definitely one of those black artists). So I don't think I'm saying anything that Bowie wouldn't have said himself. It was a double standard Bowie himself railed against. 

[elegantlion]

I drove to school yesterday in the blinding rain, it made me think of my dad who died in November(long story). When I got off the highway, a Stevie Ray Vaughn song came on the radio. Because of the rain I was also thinking about Prince. I've tried to play guitar, I'll stick to the piano I think. Rainbird2 is right, there is a voice that comes through in a Prince song, much like a voice that comes screaming through in a Stevie Ray Vaughn song. When SRV died, I thought of Don McLean's American Pie. When Prince died I thought of American Pie again. "A long, long time ago, I can still remember how that music used to make me smile....maybe they'd be happy for a while."  Life is hard and when you see someone playing a guitar (or any instrument) like it is connected to their soul, that is pretty awesome. 

 

[EmseB]

Anyone is allowed to comment. Of course. I personally don't think it's .... kind to use this period of bereavement as a reason to bring up negative things about someone. If Peyton Manning keeled over tonight, tomorrow is not when if start a 'this guy was seriously overrated amiright?' thread.

I don't know from sports, but I wouldn't find it odd to see a thread discussing his career, even the people who would say he's not all that or disagree with others who laud him...especially a week later.

 

Someone who knew him personally in some way? Certainly, keep it to paying respects if you're talking to that person. A discussion about a public performer on an internet discussion board? I think it's ok to discuss merits and detractors. And definitely not a slam to post some of the person's own work as a concrete example of something one doesn't like.

[Scarlett]

seekinghim, I agree that the lyrics of some of Prince's songs are vulgar. That said, when I pass, I devoutly hope I'm not judged as a person for something I wrote 32 years before. I did some googling last night. Apparently after he became a Jehovah's Witness, Prince publicly criticized sexually explicit lyrics and cursing in music. He also mentioned being celibate. )

This was my reason for wishing she had not posted those lyrics. It made me cringe bcause that is not who he was when he died last week.

[SKL]

The other thing about both Prince and Bowie is that they played with androgyny in a way that made a whole lot of people uncomfortable.   I think reactions to Prince's death reflect that.  Prince was closer to many poster's age. And he was ethnically a little .... confusing for white 1980s American.  I remember people trying to figure out if he was Puerto Rican or black or what back in the day.  And he pushed boundaries with his image that made people uncomfortable, in a way Bowie never did. Bowie was effortlessly elegant so he could "get away" with a bit more, I think. So I think those factors all contribute to the pushback.

 

This is off topic, so I apologize for that, but I would have switched the two artists around.  In my memory, Bowie was more controversial.  Probably because his unconventional behavior came earlier in time.  Maybe it is a difference in age - I don't know if I'm older than you or not.  (I'll be 50 this year.)

 

[SKL]

I think Bowie was great. And I would add to the "effortlessly elegant" that Bowie was also effortlessly white -- which also had something to do with what he could get away with. Prince's debut among white audiences was a much "slower winning them over" over time, a hurdle Bowie didn't have (and a hurdle Bowie acknowledged and publicly challenged on several occasions, including in the 80's when he challenged the MTV producers on why they didn't play black artists back in the day, of which Prince was definitely one of those black artists). So I don't think I'm saying anything that Bowie wouldn't have said himself. It was a double standard Bowie himself railed against. 

 

This was not my recollection, at least from a mainstream perspective.  I mean I know Bowie had a following, but he was still pretty controversial in the mainstream, and I think Prince was less so.  But it might depend on where we're coming from.

 

[GailV]

seekinghim, I agree that the lyrics of some of Prince's songs are vulgar. That said, when I pass, I devoutly hope I'm not judged as a person for something I wrote 32 years before.

 

Unfortunately, cherry-picking is too popular of a pastime.  People will pick and choose the bits they want to support whatever their thesis.  I mean, I hope that random people making their first foray into the Bible don't happen to flip open to Numbers 31:17-18, or various non-KJV translations to Ezekiel 23:20 --  neither would be my first choice for "what the Bible is all about."  But people are going to choose the bits that paint the picture they want to paint.

[Scarlett]

Unfortunately, cherry-picking is too popular of a pastime. People will pick and choose the bits they want to support whatever their thesis. I mean, I hope that random people making their first foray into the Bible don't happen to flip open to Numbers 31:17-18, or various non-KJV translations to Ezekiel 23:20 -- neither would be my first choice for "what the Bible is all about." But people are going to choose the bits that paint the picture they want to paint.

Yes. Cherry picking really did a number on Prince for me. For years I had heard the rumors that he became a JW. But then I would see pics of him in very non JW situations...and I would think he is not a JW...no way. I really never had the time or inclination to figure it out for sure. In the last week though I have done a little digging and it seems like a lot of what I was seeing over the years was older pics. And after he became a JW he became very low key and that just doesn't sell to the public so naturally I never saw much of that.

 

Media is very weird. A reminder we really shouldn't trust it.