UPDATE in 456ish: Older boy in women's locker room WWYD

[Bluegoat]

I went to the Girl's club with my mother swimming in the early 80s.  I don't recall any nakedness.  In fact we also had curtained individual changing stalls.  Not bathrooms, but just for the purposes of changing. 

 

I've been in changing rooms with Muslims.  They are even nuttier.  They go into the pool in what looks like a full body robe.  LOL

 

INto the pool, yes, but in the changing room?  (And at a women's only swim they don't generally wear those.) 

[LucyStoner]

I would think instead of throwing shade at moms of multiple little girls taking advantage of a family changing room, you'd save your ire for the childless adults who use those spaces. I can't be the only one who's seen that before.

Actually I never have at my Y. There's too much of a line to make it worth the wait for single adults or teens. I see parents with kids and caregivers with opposite gendered disabled teens or adults who clearly need assistance showering and dressing. The women's locker room is large and has multiple semi private or curtained off areas to change. It is usually all but deserted around the time his class is getting out.

[SparklyUnicorn]

INto the pool, yes, but in the changing room?  (And at a women's only swim they don't generally wear those.) 

 

Huh, never went to a woman's only swim.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would think instead of throwing shade at moms of multiple little girls taking advantage of a family changing room, you'd save your ire for the childless adults who use those spaces. I can't be the only one who's seen that before.

 

Now that is odd.  Might be completely unintentional.  They just picked one not realizing it?  No clue.

 

I've used the family bathroom at the mall when I was alone.  They have nice huge bathrooms.  LOL

[Bluegoat]

Huh, never went to a woman's only swim.

 

Around here they are mostly Muslims, with maybe a few conservative Jews or Christians.

[tm919]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but I'm pretty sure the "over 4" rule is deliberating lowballed for the reasons some stated -- kids look different ages. If you want to make the rule over 7, you really need to say over 4.

 

Anyway, that would freak most 10 year old girls I know out. 

 

I'd approach the management, but not make it a personal thing (can you believe what this woman did?). I'd ask if there were any measures to alleviate this problem (are there any other empty rooms that might serve as changing areas for families when its busy?). They probably won't be able to help you, but it will bring it to their attention without making it personal.

Edited January 28, 2016 by tm919

[SparklyUnicorn]

But seriously ignore me.  I'm in a very crappy mood today.

 

:laugh:

[SparklyUnicorn]

Around here they are mostly Muslims, with maybe a few conservative Jews or Christians.

 

Where do have stuff like that?  Private club?  Never heard of that.

[EmseB]

When I was on swim team (again, back in my day) the locker rooms had a lot of people walking around naked (80's early 90's).  People showered naked (no stalls), people dressed without trying to keep every inch of their body covered while doing so.  I only have experience with the ladies room.  And, yeah, my experience was that because of this, boys over a certain age (5 or 6) weren't welcome.  It wasn't until I got to jr high and high school public school locker rooms where this idea of keeping covered while in the locker room seemed to be prevalent and it was really strange to me.  That was why there were locker rooms, no?  But even then, girls had girls locker rooms and the boys had theirs.  Going into the opposite gender locker room in that case (public school setting) would get one in serious trouble.  Then in the military (basic training) there were no stalls, no privacy, and even male drill instructors couldn't come in while showers and changing were going on because it was all so open.  Some girls had hang ups about being naked in front of all the other girls, but it wasn't long before that stopped being an issue if you wanted a hot shower.

 

That said, at the Y for swim team, it wasn't uncommon to do a "parka change" on the pool deck if necessary where a long zipped parka was used to change into or out of clothing and swim suits.  Or to see moms helping younger kids change with a towel held up so no one could see them.  But in that case, no one saw any nakedness because you were out on a pool deck with EVERYONE.

[SparklyUnicorn]

When I was on swim team (again, back in my day) the locker rooms had a lot of people walking around naked (80's early 90's).  People showered naked (no stalls), people dressed without trying to keep every inch of their body covered while doing so.  I only have experience with the ladies room.  And, yeah, my experience was that because of this, boys over a certain age (5 or 6) weren't welcome.  It wasn't until I got to jr high and high school public school locker rooms where this idea of keeping covered while in the locker room seemed to be prevalent and it was really strange to me.  That was why there were locker rooms, no?  But even then, girls had girls locker rooms and the boys had theirs.  Going into the opposite gender locker room in that case (public school setting) would get one in serious trouble.  Then in the military (basic training) there were no stalls, no privacy, and even male drill instructors couldn't come in while showers and changing were going on because it was all so open.  Some girls had hang ups about being naked in front of all the other girls, but it wasn't long before that stopped being an issue if you wanted a hot shower.

 

That said, at the Y for swim team, it wasn't uncommon to do a "parka change" on the pool deck if necessary where a long zipped parka was used to change into or out of clothing and swim suits.  Or to see moms helping younger kids change with a towel held up so no one could see them.  But in that case, no one saw any nakedness because you were out on a pool deck with EVERYONE.

 

Huh.  Never experienced that in school or sports.

 

But once in the military.  Not fun.  Showering naked with women is not fun.  I was very uncomfortable. 

[Lady Florida.]

Huh, never went to a woman's only swim.

 

 

Around here they are mostly Muslims, with maybe a few conservative Jews or Christians.

 

 

Where do have stuff like that?  Private club?  Never heard of that.

 

The only place I ever heard of it was on the (Canadian) tv show Little Mosque on the Prairie. I think it was a community pool where they (the Muslim characters) requested a women's only swim. I have no idea if we have anything like that here because I never go to the Y, but I don't think so. I probably would have heard locals complaining if it was the case.

[EmseB]

Huh.  Never experienced that in school or sports.

 

But once in the military.  Not fun.  Showering naked with women is not fun.  I was very uncomfortable. 

 

...and I never thought much about it at all because I had grown up doing that in women's locker rooms.  I can't fathom being uncomfortable being nude in front of a bunch of other nude people (of the same gender) all just taking care of basic hygiene. 

 

We all have different comfort levels I suppose.  Which I guess is why some policies are so restrictive.

Edited January 28, 2016 by JodiSue

[SKL]

In my town in 2016 there are women and girls who get completely naked in the locker room, and this is with a sign on the door asking people to be "modest," whatever that means.  There are no private changing areas.  People who are shy (me) can go into the toilet stall to change.  Or they can come up with some trick or other to cover with their towel while they dress.

[bettyandbob]

Our community center is considering a women's only swim time. We have a good sized Muslim population. Many do bring their kids, including girls to swimming lessons. The girls all wear the full body swim suit. Many of the moms do not know how to swim. They would like to take lessons if only to improve their own comfort sitting poolside watching their children. However, they'd like to come when no men would be at the pool and no men would be teaching. We are looking at a really early morning weekend time. 

[SKL]

When they post a rule, they have to post one that works for both the men's and women's locker rooms.  I think people have more concern about dads bringing a young girl into the men's room than the other way around.  I have no idea how often that happens, since I've never been in a men's locker room.  :P

 

So I'm curious - what do people think the cut-off should be for little girls standing around in a men's locker room, given that there is no privacy for changing in there?

[LucyStoner]

Where do have stuff like that? Private club? Never heard of that.

There are community centers and Ys here that have women/child only swim times which primarily serve an immigrant population of Muslim women from Africa with their young children. Unfortunately, some people complained and tried to get one of them cancelled because it was sexist towards men. There's not even a big enough eye roll smilie to address my feelings on whoever complained. I mean, come on. Giving people a time and place to swim when they couldn't otherwise is a perfectly valid community center activity.

[OnMyOwn]

In my town in 2016 there are women and girls who get completely naked in the locker room, and this is with a sign on the door asking people to be "modest," whatever that means. There are no private changing areas. People who are shy (me) can go into the toilet stall to change. Or they can come up with some trick or other to cover with their towel while they dress.

Yes, this is how it is at the community center my kids used to swim at. There is a big area with lockers. Some do tend to be more modest with a towel, but many are very open and just comfortably change in that area. That was kind of a surprise to me because I would never be comfortable with that. There were two small curtained cubicles and if my dd ever used one, she always had some older lady telling her she should not. I often just held up a towel that she could change behind.

[bettyandbob]

  Or they can come up with some trick or other to cover with their towel while they dress.

I shower and dry in the shower stall. I wrap my towel around myself (I have beach towel). When I get to the bench I put my bra on over the towel. Then pull up my underpants under the towel. Shirt over the towel. Pull the towel out and pull on pants. I manage to stay covered without going into a bathroom stall (shower stalls are way too small and wet to change in.

 

There are children below the age at our facility (6) who watch everyone dress. I do not know why their mothers don't teach them not to do this. But quite a few do stare. I do not want an 8yob staring at me while he waits for his mother. 

[marbel]

I graduated from high school in 1974. We had open shower and locker areas.  I never liked it because I was one of the heavier girls and felt ugly around the thinner girls.  Last time I was in a locker room was probably around 2012; the women who were happy to walk around uncovered all appeared to be my age or older.  My daughter who is now 17 always preferred to try to stay covered, or would dress in the shower stall.  Now it seems like posts I'm reading from people younger than I prefer to be covered.  Was there some cultural shift I missed?   Or is it because there are too many boys in the women's locker room now? 

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I would think instead of throwing shade at moms of multiple little girls taking advantage of a family changing room, you'd save your ire for the childless adults who use those spaces. I can't be the only one who's seen that before.

 

 

The only place I've seen this is a facility that has 3 changing rooms, so there's not a line. And the only people doing it are facility staff. That facility actually discourages staff from using the locker rooms (I don't know why). 

 

If I saw someone who didn't work at the facility doing this, I'd assume they had some disability or special need for privacy that couldn't be accommodated in the locker room. I've never seen this though. I am at a pool 5 days a week. I regularly frequent 4 different facilities. 

[SKL]

Yeah of course.  How dare anyone want to go swimming during the week? 

 

People with little kids should not leave the house.  Too many problems.  Can't use bathrooms.  Can't use changing rooms.  Just one big fat problem.  They don't need to leave the house anyway.

 

There are thousands of things moms with little kids can do without breaking the rules.  Some of them require planning, and others require waiting.  It's really not that bad.

 

My kids didn't step toe into a swimming pool until they were 3.5, because I am a single mom of 2 and we couldn't do mom-and-me lessons (one-on-one ratio).  We all survived.  When my kids were 5, they changed the rule about needing a parent in the pool within arm's length, so we quit going swimming until my kids aged out of that rule.  I didn't like it, but my preferences aren't the only consideration apparently.

 

There are so many other choices the mom in the OP has.

• Send your school-aged kid into the men's locker room like most people do.
• Use the family changing room.
• If you can't get a family changing room, towel off and go change in a bathroom stall elsewhere in the facility.
• Swim at a less busy time of the day so you can get a family changing room.
• Go get the car and pick up your wet kids at the door so they don't die of the cold.
• Only swim when it's warm enough to go to the car in their swimsuits
• Find some other place to swim.
• Wait until your kids are old enough to deal with the rules.
• Don't use the pool.

When I was a kid, most kids under 8 never went swimming, and swimming indoor (so any swimming in the winter) was very unusual.  I think that might still be the case for many people who don't have a gym membership, which is probably the majority of the US population.  At age 8 we all walked down to the public pool on warm summer days, without our parents, and we used the gender-appropriate locker rooms.  The older kids taught the younger kids to swim.  Afterwards, we usually didn't change, but went off to play all wet in our bathing suits (which soon dried on our skin) until it was time to go home for dinner.  That felt like heaven to us.  I guess I should sue the city for not making it possible for my parents to take us all swimming in the winter when we were too little to change our own clothes.

[zoobie]

We did, I remember being cold, but we wore parkas and boots, and it was about 3 minutes.

My best friend lives in the Boston area (i.e., not tropical climate), and her kids wear swim parkas after swim team practice. They throw them on and go straight home to shower. I have done the towel thing for mine in warm weather. Or throw on a hoodie and sweatpants. It's easier than changing then changing again at home to shower.

[Katy]

Why would those rooms be better for families?  Other than the stalls which are there to accomodate mixed sexes, what is the difference?

 

Around here, there didn't used to be family rooms at all - they were added specifically to address the need for a space with mixed genders, like parents and younger opposite sex kids, or adults with caregivers of the opposite sex.  It doesn't say that, but since that is the reason for them, and there is no other advantage, why use them otherwise?

It's convenient to have a locked door so excited little ones can't bolt toward the pool through open locker doors and fall in while you're naked and can't run after them.  I actually think it would be more convenient to have mostly family rooms, because usually during the day at least it's families who are there.

 

<snip>

 

*Our Y also has women's and men's locker rooms in which no-one 18 and under is allowed (not sure why 18yos aren't allowed in them, but they have saunas where you also have to be 19yo, again not a clue why).

 

Probably because of the saunas, and the fact that some people don't like kids.  Saunas have been used by kids who want to cut weight quickly, and it can be dangerous because they go overboard. Girls for the sake of it, boys for wrestling.

 

I'd rather men also keep themselves clothed in front of 10yo girls. I don't think that nakedness being private beyond a certain age has much to do with shame about the female body or men being sex driven animals. A great many people don't want to be naked in front of strangers of the opposite sex, it's not that revolutionary or horrible.

 

I agree!

 

I graduated from high school in 1974. We had open shower and locker areas.  I never liked it because I was one of the heavier girls and felt ugly around the thinner girls.  Last time I was in a locker room was probably around 2012; the women who were happy to walk around uncovered all appeared to be my age or older.  My daughter who is now 17 always preferred to try to stay covered, or would dress in the shower stall.  Now it seems like posts I'm reading from people younger than I prefer to be covered.  Was there some cultural shift I missed?   Or is it because there are too many boys in the women's locker room now? 

 

Maybe both.  My mom and grandmother have no problem walking around naked.  I didn't want anything to do with it, and neither did my sister.  We were teased by adults in our family about our modesty as children.  I think everything is SO sexualized today, so much about how you look, and the "ideal" body literally doesn't exist, so everyone knows they don't fit the victoria's secret model type, and everyone has shame about not looking the way they think they should.  Those women in magazines don't look like that without twisting their torsos so their rears look like hips, and their legs are always lengthened and breasts enlarged in photoshop, so even slender girls don't realize that they look pretty close to perfect.

[SKL]

Also, if this is a group swimming thing age-appropriate for these boys, wouldn't they have peers who went into the men's locker room to change?  They wouldn't be all alone in there, right?

 

And, while I can understand the concern about some young boys not being able to change on their own, it doesn't sound like that was the lady's problem in the OP.  It sounds like she has a sexual hang-up about naked boys being around naked men.

 

So why is it a big sexual hang-up to not want school-aged boys around naked girls, but it is an obvious problem to have school-age boys around naked men?

[mamakelly]

I have never seen naked women in the locker area. Most people are way too uptight for that. I'll go out on a limb and say I don't believe most 10ish plus aged girls would even walk around naked.

Oh our YMCA locker rooms are full of naked people lol! I was pretty surprised the first time I went through the locker room. Women of all ages were naked, changing, walking out of the shower with their hair wrapped up in their towel totally naked. DH said the men's locker room was the same. I was super thankful for the family changing rooms when I had 3 young boys that needed help. Once they could manage on their own, they'd use the regular locker rooms.

[LucyStoner]

Also, if this is a group swimming thing age-appropriate for these boys, wouldn't they have peers who went into the men's locker room to change? They wouldn't be all alone in there, right?

 

And, while I can understand the concern about some young boys not being able to change on their own, it doesn't sound like that was the lady's problem in the OP. It sounds like she has a sexual hang-up about naked boys being around naked men.

 

So why is it a big sexual hang-up to not want school-aged boys around naked girls, but it is an obvious problem to have school-age boys around naked men?

During the workday there aren't many men at my swimming pool. The senior swims seem to draw far more ladies than gentlemen. There really wouldn't tend to be that many men in our Y around the time we go.

 

My reluctance, and the reluctance of every boy mom I know, to send a young boy into the men's room, is primarily a matter of practical considerations like he still needs help or can't handle being in the dressing room alone. It's sending him where I can't go if he needs something. When he is with his father, that's where they go. It's not an issue of not wanting him around men, it's an issue of he's not yet old enough to deal with the locker room without an older sibling (not there on class days because he's at a different activity across town) or a parent (often me rather than his father).

[SKL]

During the workday there aren't many men at my swimming pool. The senior swims seem to draw far more ladies than gentlemen. There really wouldn't tend to be that many men in our Y around the time we go.

 

My reluctance, and the reluctance of every boy mom I know, to send a young boy into the men's room, is primarily a matter of practical considerations like he still needs help or can't handle being in the dressing room alone. It's sending him where I can't go if he needs something. When he is with his father, that's where they go. It's not an issue of not wanting him around men, it's an issue of he's not yet old enough to deal with the locker room without an older sibling (not there on class days because he's at a different activity across town) or a parent (often me rather than his father).

 

OK but I don't think dads react the same when they take their school-aged daughters to the pool.  And I think it's harder to change out of a girl swimsuit and do girl hair.  Either they do "good enough" and fix it at home, or they use the family room.

 

[Leav97]

DH has been taking our 6 year old swimming for a couple of years.  The rule here is 5 year olds and we have 1 family room that never seems to be in use.  One of the Mom's got in trouble for taking her 8 year old into the woman's room.  So she decided it would be a good idea for her to use the men's locker room with her son.  Yeah, the men were not impressed with an adult woman watching them change.

 

 

[happi duck]

Though I realize that cultures have different levels of comfort with nudity, I don't think this is about squeamishness.

 

I think people should have a say in who sees them naked. In a culture that is more comfortable with nakedness I'm assuming that people still get a say about when and where they want to be naked.

 

To add to the informal poll:

Around here locker rooms are full nudity and crowded. We change at home because it's crowded.

[gardenmom5]

tell the staff - that's their job, and they have more power to enforce the rules.

I also think this is a case of lack of respect for other people's comfort and seeing herself as a special snowflake to whom the rules do not apply.

 

our swim facility has two family rooms.  during busy times - they would be mobbed.  (I think they only built two because they underestimated the demand. they're expanding).  what makes me angry are the SINGLE people using the family rooms - even though there are private change rooms - with showers - in the main dressing rooms.

 

I didn't like sending dudeling in alone - he'd dawdle.  I'd call through the door (also open), and he'd ignore me.  the male employees were happy to go in and encourage him to hurry up - and he'd LIE about his identity (no I'm not dudeling.).

 

I would change him into dry clothes in the car.  I eventually got him a terry swim robe, and made him shower and change at home.  he protested, but I wasn't going to take the time to stand in the line when it wasn't critical.

 

[LucyStoner]

OK but I don't think dads react the same when they take their school-aged daughters to the pool. And I think it's harder to change out of a girl swimsuit and do girl hair. Either they do "good enough" and fix it at home, or they use the family room.

 

Let's be very real. The vast majority of people wrangling kids at the pool are moms and (female) nannies or other women- aunts, grandmas, whatever. If this seems like a bigger issue for women, it would be because it it simply comes up far more often for women than for men. How large is your sample size of what the heck dads with daughters too young to be independent in the locker room do?

 

The count of dads I have seen waiting for their kids at the pool when I am waiting for mine on a weekday is a number approaching zero unless I count my own husband who has come with me a couple of times and occasionally takes our son alone.

 

Weekends or evenings are different but quickly asking my husband, he says that he sees little girls in the men's locker rooms occasionally with their brothers, dads or grandpas. He says probably never older than 5-7. I'm going to go out on a limb and say my husband has spent more time in a men's locker room than you SKL, ;)

[Mom2Five]

I would not send my boy that young into a men's locker room by himself. I think that it could put him in a situation with a man who is up to no good. My oldest ds is 8 and I still wouldn't want him in there. I also wouldn't want him in the girls locker room with little girls or same age girls changing. I wouldn't think that would be at all appropriate. I take him into the women's restroom with me if we are out and someone just can't wait but I don't think that is at all the same thing. In the first situation I would suck it up and let him use the family restroom while I waited outside and then have him face the wall while his sisters changed.

I would Def let the staff know. I would not have dd9 changing in front of a boy over the of 3/4.

[zoobie]

Oh our YMCA locker rooms are full of naked people lol! I was pretty surprised the first time I went through the locker room. Women of all ages were naked, changing, walking out of the shower with their hair wrapped up in their towel totally naked. DH said the men's locker room was the same. I was super thankful for the family changing rooms when I had 3 young boys that needed help. Once they could manage on their own, they'd use the regular locker rooms.

Our Y was like that too. Naked everywhere. There was a deep hot tub in the locker room. I tried it after swimming once, and three naked old ladies hopped in. The men's room was the same way. DS still remembers what he calls "gravity over time" with a shudder. Lol!

[Mimm]

I agree.  Our attitudes towards nudity are incredibly strange.

 

I was watching a German movie this past weekend.  Lot of nudity in it.  Not sexy nudity. Just everyday nudity.  Lot of scenes with parents and kids and nobody was acting wigged out.  It's just normal.  Not a huge deal.

 

Admittedly I'm as ridiculous because this nonsense has been pounded into me.  I know someone said here so women can be free to be naked in the locker area.  I have never seen naked women in the locker area.  Most people are way too uptight for that.  I'll go out on a limb and say I don't believe most 10ish plus aged girls would even walk around naked.  They would be quick and discrete out of shame and embarrassment because we are told we should be embarrassed.  So this super mega naked club we are all supposedly a member of in the women's locker room I say is bull.  Never never ever never had that experience in any locker room.

 

That totally happens here. I didn't go to public school and I've never been a member of a gym so a few years ago when I was attending swim lessons with my kids was the first time I was hanging out in a women's locker room and I was startled at the nudity everywhere. And not just a bunch of young hot 20 year olds fresh from their yoga classes. I'm talking about 70 year old women peeling off swim suits. :)

[Wheres Toto]

If I remember correctly, the age at our Y is 6 and under can be in the opposite gender changing rooms.  In the ladies locker room, there's a section of two rows that are pretty much hidden from the main path through to the pool that are designated for over 19 years old.   Nobody would be able to see back there unless they were going there. There are no family changing rooms, but there are curtained off cubicles on the pool deck that can be used to change clothes.

 

My kids have been taking swim lessons there for years.  For the past two years they go with their young female teacher.  When ds was over 6 but too young to really be trusted in the locker room himself (2E, impulse control issues), he would use curtained off areas on the pool deck to change out of his suit and shower at home, or in the summer just wear his suit home with a t-shirt over it.   Now he goes in, does a quick rinse and changes on his own.

 

We do the same thing for dd if dh happens to be the one picking them up (rare but has happened).

 

I think if people are uncomfortable, it should be reported and that mother needs to follow the rules.  There are other options.

 

[Guest]

We used to spend considerable time at a cabin resort y camp- type place when I was a kid and it was very clear that people's comfort with nudity is highly personal and not really strictly cultural. I would classify almost everyone that rolled through there as culturally-similar, but it takes all kinds yanno?

 

Once, for example, in the shower area where you get dressed (the shower stalls were teeeeeeny tiny) there was a woman buck naked  with her fanny toward the door...bent over lotioning her ankles as my sister and I walked it. hahahahahahha My sister was mortified (she's much younger than me) and I thought it was hilarious. Funny in the "come on dude, just put your panties on before you lotion your legs dummy" kind of way.

 

But anyway, some people are naked people (does anyone else remember that SATC episode where Charlotte said that?) and some people are not. NBD! Women's locker rooms can abide them all.

[gardenmom5]

I would think instead of throwing shade at moms of multiple little girls taking advantage of a family changing room, you'd save your ire for the childless adults who use those spaces. I can't be the only one who's seen that before.

 

the moms of girls who use the family room are annoying in a smh kinda way, - but not nearly as madening as the single people who use them.  (and NO they did not have someone they were helping.)

 

 

eta: at the swim club where I've taken kids for lessons - there is lots of nudity in the locker room.  and the hot springs - that attracts europeans who are visiting the US - even more nudity.

Edited January 28, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Guest]

That totally happens here. I didn't go to public school and I've never been a member of a gym so a few years ago when I was attending swim lessons with my kids was the first time I was hanging out in a women's locker room and I was startled at the nudity everywhere. And not just a bunch of young hot 20 year olds fresh from their yoga classes. I'm talking about 70 year old women peeling off swim suits. :)

 

In the summertime in the south, my elderly relatives start peeling off clothes as soon as the men leave, when they're visiting. They hang out in their fancy old lady slips, with all their jewelry and make up and their roller-set hairdos. I love LOVE it. It was like this whole other way of existing in the world and I got to be part of the club. I stayed fully dressed though LOL

[Ausmumof3]

I'm paranoid about stuff like this. An 8 year old girl was raped and murdered in a toilet while her dad was standing outside at a shopping centre 5 mins from our house. He eventually wondered why she took so long and went in to look for her. It's one incident not likely to happen again that close in my life time but it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

 

Our local pool has one family room which is also the disabled toilet. So I'm caught between the unforgivable sin of taking my 9 year old into the ladies or chewing up time in the disabled toilet when someone with a genuine need could be waiting. Most of the time I just take my son home in his swimsuit and am lucky the climate here is suitable. Lots of arguments here are really bugging me.

 

1. Stand outside the door

No. The men's is like a rabbit warren and my son wouldn't be able to hear me yelling from the back.

2. People are comfy with same sex nudity but not opposite. Same sex attraction exists.

3. Take your kids home wet. Yes I've done this but in certain weather situations this is neglectful and abusive. Also I live 30 minutes from anywhere so my swimming lessons occasionally coincide with appointments or shopping trips that require everyone to dress.

4. Don't take them swimming. Sorry no. I live in a country where drowning is a pretty common cause of death. Really learning to swim requires a number of lessons over a number of years and cannot be put off till the kid is old enough to hang out in the change room. Not getting kids swimming lessons is probably considered borderline neglectful.

5. Go to a different centre. None of the swim centres near us have great options.

 

Our swimming centre has showers with closing doors so those who don't want to be naked in front of others can use them: when I really have to shower my older son I will check it's basically empty and then duck through with him straight into the shower and shut the door. At other more open plan facilities he'd change in the car.

 

Another swim centre we go to only has single sex changing areas. The disabled rooms are inside of them.

 

Ultimately I think swim centres need to catch up with with culture and make the shift toward increasing the number of family rooms available. In the mean time it's always going to be difficult.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ausmumof3

[bolt.]

Ok, well, I'm fine with my status as a shame-filled prude because I don't want to be naked in front of other guys besides my husband, including tween boys.

 

I think everyone who wants to go all Starship Troopers in the locker rooms should feel free to have their own swim clubs and community centers because they are so bothered by not being able to be naked in front of everyone. :)

I just want to clarify that I don't think *you* are unusually shame-filled or prudish, or anything else like that.

 

You are a normal member of your culture, probably right in the middle of the majority. You (like everyone else) have been through the process of childhood socialization (being taught to behave in a civilized manner) and you -- like everyone else -- feel uncomfortable when you don't follow the norms of your society.

 

That's absolutely how sociology works.

 

It's just that, correctly labelling the norms of our societies, and the reasons behind them involves noticing that -- on a grand scale -- these rules are arbitrary, and vary from culture to culture. These particular norms are shame norms, used to facilitate a 'civilized' type of behaviour with respect to sex, gender and sexuality. That's not about you, specifically at all. That's just the correct formal/factual vocabulary to discribe the culture-wide phenomenon.

[AndyJoy]

OK, HOWEVER, I still think if they have the family room then she should have used it. She should spend time complaining to have it made larger. Or whatever. It's stupid they make such tiny family rooms. That part should change. I bet a ton of families would use it. I'd use it with my 10 year old. I know he would prefer to be with me than in a men's locker room by himself with strangers. He's just skitzy like that. But of course he can't be with me because god forbid he might see a room overflowing with naked girls. LOL

 

Our particular family changing rooms are HUGE, so size is not the issue here.

[luuknam]

The only place I ever heard of it was on the (Canadian) tv show Little Mosque on the Prairie. I think it was a community pool where they (the Muslim characters) requested a women's only swim. I have no idea if we have anything like that here because I never go to the Y, but I don't think so. I probably would have heard locals complaining if it was the case.

 

They started a women's only swim in the Dutch town I grew up in when I was a teen or so (probably because of the large and increasing Muslim population). And I think there was some pushback, e.g. if they want to move to NL, they can learn Dutch cultural norms. And fwiw, it's not like all Europeans walk around naked everywhere. IIRC all of the pools I went to in NL had individual stalls to change in.

 

Probably because of the saunas, and the fact that some people don't like kids.  Saunas have been used by kids who want to cut weight quickly, and it can be dangerous because they go overboard. Girls for the sake of it, boys for wrestling.

 

I specifically was wondering why the 18yos aren't allowed in the men's/women's locker rooms/sauna. Usually, 18yo is seen as adult... why do they have to be 19 for that? (and yes, it was made very clear that you have to be 19, not 18, even if I maybe wrote it in an ambiguous way in my post)

[Bluegoat]

Where do have stuff like that?  Private club?  Never heard of that.

 

Well, it used to be at the YWCA when I went, because I had a membership and the time was good.  That pool doesn't exist any more,  I believe they hold it now at one of the other community pools.

 

It's a matter of demand I think, there are enough Muslim and other women in the city that want to swim to have a time for it.

[luuknam]

I'm paranoid about stuff like this. An 8 year old girl was raped and murdered in a toilet while her dad was standing outside at a shopping centre 5 mins from our house. He eventually wondered why she took so long and went in to look for her. It's one incident not likely to happen again that close in my life time but it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

 

4. Don't take them swimming. Sorry no. I live in a country where drowning is a pretty common cause of death. Really learning to swim requires a number of lessons over a number of years and cannot be put off till the kid is old enough to hang out in the change room. Not getting kids swimming lessons is probably considered borderline neglectful.

 

Gently...

 

Adults sometimes get murdered in various places (including restrooms) too. That doesn't mean you can't ever go anywhere alone at any age. It also doesn't mean it's inherently unsafe for 8yos to use a locker room without their parent, especially when it's homeschool swim&gym (or another swim class) and there are other kids their age changing in the locker rooms at the same time - a paranoid parent could figure out a buddy system.

 

It does not take *years* for a normal (older, 8+ or so) kid to learn to swim well enough for most accidental drowning situations. Especially if you put the kid in 2-3 swim lessons per week once they're old enough to use the locker room alone. Half of the country I'm from is under sea level. They had mandatory swim lessons in 3rd grade, once a week. The few kids who couldn't swim at the start of that year were adequate swimmers by the end of the year.

[Kerileanne99]

I hear you on the convenience but when it is busy, it would be more considerate to let those with special needs opposite gendered (to their caregiver) children who are over the age limit have access if there's another place to change with your same gender child.

Yep. As a mom in a wheelchair who HAS to wait for the family/special needs room I have to say it drives me nuts to wait for the mom with a girl/boy combos of kiddos who could obviously us the regular with no issues. I am not talking about a short wait...but 30-40 minutes because it MIGHT offend an older lady to have a young boy in the changing room?

I have actually spoken to other moms waiting...and it turns out many of them were run out of the regular bathrooms by older women who were bothered by their presence:(

Seriously. It is a body. Little boys couldn't care less about it. Unless they are openly staring/commenting/acting inappropriately I don't see an issue.

That being said, if he really IS ten and neuro typical I would feel badly for the poor kid being dragged in there!

 

ETA: because apparently autocorrect liked gulag bathrooms instead of regular bathroomsðŸ˜

Edited January 29, 2016 by Kerileanne99

[Bluegoat]

I graduated from high school in 1974. We had open shower and locker areas.  I never liked it because I was one of the heavier girls and felt ugly around the thinner girls.  Last time I was in a locker room was probably around 2012; the women who were happy to walk around uncovered all appeared to be my age or older.  My daughter who is now 17 always preferred to try to stay covered, or would dress in the shower stall.  Now it seems like posts I'm reading from people younger than I prefer to be covered.  Was there some cultural shift I missed?   Or is it because there are too many boys in the women's locker room now? 

 

I think maybe there has been some kind of shift.  What an odd thing if so.

 

I'm not sure its nuetral - I think seeing other people of the same sex naked is kind of freeing.  Now they have all these websites and photo projects showing things like breasts  so that we can realize that people have all kinds of different shapes.

[Alicia64]

I'd alert the gym staff in a heartbeat -- she can use the family room.

 

Some parents. . . one woman insists on bringing her kids (7 or 8 and definitely 3) into a dog park. Today one dog bit the older kid's shoe and the boy freaked. The poor dog owner had tears in her eyes as she took the dog out. The dog was friendly and just being a dog.

 

Alley

[SeaConquest]

We have lived on our sailboat off and on for years, and spend a ton of time in and around the water. So, for us, learning to swim at a very young age is a necessity, not a luxury. Both of my kids have been able to swim across the pool by the time they were 2. (And, I take them in the locker room with me.)

Edited January 28, 2016 by SeaConquest

[AndyJoy]

As naturally happens in this kind of thread, this discussion has moved away from the facts in this particular case to experiences and different varied facilities. Which I totally expected and understand as we like to talk these things through ;).

 

For those who don't want to wade through everything to find the particulars in this situation, I'll summarize and add some details.

 

Kids 0-4 are allowed in the opposite gender locker room. 5 and older must use their own gender's room or one of two family bathrooms if accompanied by an adult who has requested a key.

 

The family bathrooms are spacious and open directly to the pool area. They can definitely be busy at times, but ON THIS DAY ONE WAS OPEN. The woman lied about the staff running out of keys.

 

This is a 2-hour homeschool swimming block from 11-1, including 30 minutes of lessons. This boy's lesson finished at 12:05, so there was lots of time for the mom to plan access to the family room before 1:00. There are only 22 kids ages 3-10 in lessons that day, plus a few assorted homeschoolers who are members and come to hang out for free time and don't pay for the class (an incredibly reasonable $5 for non-members).

 

Most people leave by 12:30, so the family rooms have little to no wait after then. There were 2-3 other boys ages 6-10 changing in the men's room at 1:00 when this lady came in.

 

The locker rooms are not huge or maze-like. Easy in and out. I can hear every word my son says when I stand in the doorway. The men's room is exactly like the women's, with 6 curtained shower stalls, 3 doored changing stalls, and an open locker area. The only difference is the substitution of urinals for part of the toilet stalls. They are around a wall from the locker area.

 

The mom and boys were in and out in 5 minutes (during which it was unusually, completely, silent).

 

No one has answered my question about whether a typical 7-10 year old could be expected to enter the men's room with just his trunks, towel, underwear, and pants and return unscathed on the other side where mom is waiting, able to hear his every word. She can even call in to tell him to hurry, and this alert possible predators to the fact that he's not truly alone. My son is low on executive function skills, but he could do that much at 5 1/2 with me coaching and talking him through it beforehand. I really don't see what could possibly happen in 5 minutes in this situation.

[AndyJoy]

They started a women's only swim in the Dutch town I grew up in when I was a teen or so (probably because of the large and increasing Muslim population). And I think there was some pushback, e.g. if they want to move to NL, they can learn Dutch cultural norms. And fwiw, it's not like all Europeans walk around naked everywhere. IIRC all of the pools I went to in NL had individual stalls to change in.

 

 

I specifically was wondering why the 18yos aren't allowed in the men's/women's locker rooms/sauna. Usually, 18yo is seen as adult... why do they have to be 19 for that? (and yes, it was made very clear that you have to be 19, not 18, even if I maybe wrote it in an ambiguous way in my post)

My guess is it weeds out highschoolers in favor of "real" adults ;). Edited January 28, 2016 by AndyJoy