Talk me into it or out of it

[SKL]

Thanks

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[Jen in NY]

My opinion: yes, absolutely, no question - you should go to a counselor. I don't know how old your dd is, but your description would have me on the phone in a heartbeat.

 

I have been though some dark times, and counseling has been invaluable. I would make the time, make it a priority, and go.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

ETA: I will come back and edit details out of this in a little while. Done.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Jen in NY

[Lawana]

For the love of all things holy, get her some help before she is a teen. By then, the dynamics have changed so much it might be too late until she is an adult and maybe will make those decisions on her own. BTDT

[SproutMamaK]

Yes, you should absolutely go to a counsellor. A lot of those issues point to serious underlying concerns, and the longer it's left without being identified and dealt with, the more difficult it will be for her to deal with them. Please contact a counsellor asap, both for her sake and your own. I don't think you can afford NOT to.

[maize]

Has she had a full evaluation from a neuropsychologist? I would start there, probably for both girls so as not to single her out. 

 

Problems that appear small in a 4th grader can become much more severe by high school, and there are enough red flags here (anxiety, self harm, etc.) that I would be wanting to address things proactively. I realize you are doing your best to address things at home, but I do think you need A) more information; and B) professional support. 

[Guest]

I used to play the "give it more time" card until we were really in a bad spot. Go to the counselor. If you don't need it (and we've done some therapy that wasn't necessary in hindsight), oh well.

[JFSinIL]

I agree with the other posters.  Please let us confirm what you know you need to do, and call the counselor.  You are being a good mom by doing do.

[TechWife]

Do it. Your child needs help and you need to start somewhere. 

[Joules]

Yes, absolutely go as soon as you can.  It's uncomfortable to talk to an outsider about family things, so the nervousness is normal.  In other words, not a sign you shouldn't go.  

 

It sounds like she needs help (and if you haven't already consider a doctor's appointment in addition.  With so much on food and eating, there may be underlying medical issues.)

[Happy]

Adopted mom here....get thee to a counselor.

 

You may have to go through a couple to find a GOOD one, but finding a good one is worth the effort.

[Rockhopper]

nm

Edited December 8, 2015 by Rockhopper

[TammyS]

Look at it this way.... you aren't taking out a mortgage.  You can call the woman up (or 2-3 different ones) and talk to them, have an appointment or two, and see what you think.  You don't have to commit to doing anything long term.  Maybe what you need before you get counseling for your daughter, is a session or two with someone to help you think out what to do next.

[KrissiK]

Yeah, I think you should probably see someone, but be careful. My son doesn't have those issues, but we did decide to see a counselor last spring. And in the safe, non-judgemental environment of the counselor's office, where the kid was alone with a guy who was just focused on him, asking him non-intrusive questions and playing monopoly with him.... turns out that there's not a whole lot wrong with him, I got a lot of advice that didn't work and turns out that I'm the problem! Apparently I'm OCD. Though that was the first I ever heard of it. And I even I sent the guy via e-mail weekly narratives of this kid's behavior, attitude, etc. DS loved the sessions, he was the center of attention, nothing was required of him, etc. so none of his behavior problems came out. We stopped going to this guy. I don't know if we'll try again. Our issues aren't awful. We just thought counseling might help things run a little more smoothly. All that to say, it's hard to find a good one. Be careful.

[East Coast Sue]

Absolutely, seek help. I'm right there with you and understand being nervous to make the call, but you've really got to do it. PM if you want support from a fellow adoptive mom who understands.

[SKL]

nm

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[Pink and Green Mom]

Please go to the adoption specialist.  My oldest was adopted from overseas at 4. He is now 14.5.

 

Your daughter is 9. What might this list escalate to at 11?  13? 16?  PLEASE - and I speak from experience - nip this in the bud NOW.  Let me just say that once my son turned 13 some adoption related issues started to rear their head, along with the whole teenage hormonal experience, and a whole lot of "I don't have to listen to you, you are not my real mother."

 

Help her get these things and feelings under control now before teenage angst sets in.  You still have maximum influence now.  It may not be so in a few years.  I have come to the realization that adoption issues (even just the very fact that they are adopted) heaped upon normal teenage angst is really something else.

 

This path is not easy.  :grouphug:

[prairiewindmomma]

Go to counseling and keep working until you find someone good.  

 

 

[Pink and Green Mom]

Yeah, I think you should probably see someone, but be careful. My son doesn't have those issues, but we did decide to see a counselor last spring. And in the safe, non-judgemental environment of the counselor's office, where the kid was alone with a guy who was just focused on him, asking him non-intrusive questions and playing monopoly with him.... turns out that there's not a whole lot wrong with him, I got a lot of advice that didn't work and turns out that I'm the problem! Apparently I'm OCD. Though that was the first I ever heard of it. And I even I sent the guy via e-mail weekly narratives of this kid's behavior, attitude, etc. DS loved the sessions, he was the center of attention, nothing was required of him, etc. so none of his behavior problems came out. We stopped going to this guy. I don't know if we'll try again. Our issues aren't awful. We just thought counseling might help things run a little more smoothly. All that to say, it's hard to find a good one. Be careful.

 

:iagree: Finding the right therapist is just as hard (if not harder) than finding the right mix of medicine for someone with depression, anxiety, mental illness, etc.  It may take several tries to get it right.

[maize]

I'm not sure what this is, or how to go about this.

 

I'm pretty sure my HMO won't pay for anything on this.  I did go to them 3 years ago to try to get a referral for auditory processing therapy (which did not happen), but I was very unimpressed with the way they handled it, and I don't trust them with this right now.

 

 

Insurance often will pay, usually you need a pre-authorization but the neuropsychologist office can take care of that. Search on the insurance network for neuropsychologist, if you don't see any on there do a google search and call the office and ask about insurance (the one I have taken my kids to did not show up as a provider on the website but they are, not sure how that happened). They're experts at dealing with insurance.

 

They can take awhile to get into though, so start with a counselor and a visit to your regular doctor. It can be hard to find good professionals but they are out there, and I for one am of the opinion that the more supportive people I have on my own and my children's team the better. The first therapist I took my very intense 7 year old to was a complete flop, and the one we have now clicks very well with her.

Edited December 8, 2015 by maize

[mathnerd]

 

and if you haven't already consider a doctor's appointment in addition

 

:iagree: I would suggest that you talk to her doctor about the sugar cravings as a lot of the incidents are connected to her craving and hoarding of sugar. I have a family member who craves sugar and will eat a meal and then start eating sugary stuff right afterwards (cookies, ice-cream etc). After several years of this, we consulted a doctor who said that he might have candida overgrowth due to being put on intravenous antibiotics a lot as a young child. There are other reasons as well, but, this is the reason for our case. When the cravings hit, this person was not in control of their thoughts and actions. So, it could be that there is an underlying issue that makes her crave sugar and also has mood changes. Please follow up on that in addition to the other actions that you are considering.

[gardenmom5]

in addition to talking with a counselor about the thefts -

 

I would do a good quality candida cleanse.  yeast craves sugar.  that can have huge impacts. 

I used to have a horrible sweet tooth - doing periodic yeast cleanses, actually would relive the cravings.  along with that, a good quality broad probiotic. (re: good gut bacteria). it will be easier to make dietary changes.

especially if she has a history of antibiotics.  (which are necessary, but kill good gut bacteria too.)

Edited December 8, 2015 by gardenmom5

[MomatHWTK]

Get the counselling if nothing else, for an  outside perspective.  Also, it demonstrates that you are proactive (should the need ever arise).  

[SKL]

nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[SKL]

nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[maize]

I tried with the doctor. They labeled her file "ADHD" before we arrived for the first appointment. I've mentioned the sugar and one other physical issue every time and they blow it off. She doesn't fall outside of any normal developmental ranges so she doesn't need help.

 

Can you find another doctor?

 

This is a child who is self-harming and having death ideation, she does need help. No 4th grader ought to feel that way, nor should she be constantly getting in trouble for behavioral issues that are likely driven by things completely beyond her control. She needs people on her side, working with her to help her navigate life successfully. The road she is on I am afraid she will just dig herself deeper and deeper into a hole, and she will not be able to climb out on her own.

[SKL]

nm

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[Pamela H in Texas]

Are one of these therapists near you?  http://child.tcu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/TBRI-Alumni-2015.09.251.pdf

 

 

 

[Pamela H in Texas]

For more help and resources, encouragement in the moment and beyond, check out the FB group Parenting With Connection.

[Tsuga]

My older daughter is similar to yours, but without the stealing and less permanent self harm as she's extremely sensitive to pain.

 

I struggle with this because I don't know anyone who was helped long-term through counseling or maybe everyone who doesn't fall apart keeps it a secret? Counseling seemed to always lead to drugs in the lives of people who told me about it. I'd like to hear positive stories as well.

[itsheresomewhere]

Call and ask for the cash rate for the neuro. Our insurance will not cover it at all. The cash rate for the one we really liked and had the best reputation was 1800.

[Liz CA]

Good for you for having contacted a counselor who specializes in Attachment / Adoption issues!

What are you afraid of when you think of seeing a counselor? Discovering some answers to this may answer some of the questions you posted.

Of course you have time because if this was a medical emergency you'd make time to see the doctor, even repeatedly if necessary. :)

 

Some of the behavior you have listed warrants some counseling. Just think of how much better your girl may feel with a little extra help given her circumstances.

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Liz CA

[Liz CA]

My older daughter is similar to yours, but without the stealing and less permanent self harm as she's extremely sensitive to pain.

 

I struggle with this because I don't know anyone who was helped long-term through counseling or maybe everyone who doesn't fall apart keeps it a secret? Counseling seemed to always lead to drugs in the lives of people who told me about it. I'd like to hear positive stories as well.

 

Not necessarily. But I do share your concern of overdiagnosing in some areas and trying to solve issues with RX. Counseling may take some time whereas people hope for overnight solutions. Counseling involves the person being counseled and places a certain amount of responsibility on their shoulders to take the steps to grow. It is not a passive process. Some people are not ready or willing to go on a journey of growth and therefore - in their eyes - counseling is of little value.

 

[maize]

My older daughter is similar to yours, but without the stealing and less permanent self harm as she's extremely sensitive to pain.

 

I struggle with this because I don't know anyone who was helped long-term through counseling or maybe everyone who doesn't fall apart keeps it a secret? Counseling seemed to always lead to drugs in the lives of people who told me about it. I'd like to hear positive stories as well.

Medication for mental health can be just as helpful and necessary as something like medication for hypothyroidism or diabetes; please do not dismiss a recommendation for medication as a negative outcome of counseling.

 

Years ago, when I first convinced my husband to seek counseling for his anxiety and depression, we met with aatherapist. That first day, the therapist evaluated my husband's situation and strongly encouraged him to seek medical help, then come back for therapy.

 

That was, in his case, the very best possible advice and has been a huge blessing in allowing dh to function well in life.

Edited December 8, 2015 by maize

[gardenmom5]

I'm trying to remember if she's ever had antibiotics.  One course when she had strep, several years ago, but I'm pretty sure that's it.

 

She's had yogurt every day since she was in preschool.

 

I will look up the candida thing and see if it makes sense in her case.

 

ETA:  yes, the candida thing does make sense - it could be caused by eating all that sugar and she has had quite a few of the symptoms.  Now how to fix it....  No way she's going to be able to stop eating sugar; we've tried that and it just leads to more sneaking etc.

 

most commercial yogurt is loaded with sugar.  (I now refuse to eat it.)

I only eat plain, unsweetened greek yogurt (no honey, nothing.).  I add my own unsweetened (frozen, and thawed) berries/fruit. (I also throw in raw plain rolled oats.)  greek yogurt has more types of probiotics than commerical yogurt.

 

even just eating alot of sugar (and not enough fresh veggies) - will throw off the balances, without needing any help from antibiotics.  it's an easy place to start while also working other angles.

 

start with candida cleanses. start slow -  die off throws out toxins, and can be extremely unpleasant.  (especially the first time. just . . wow. I didn't know about starting slowly.) however, as you reduce her candida levels, her sugar cravings should naturally start to go down.  

 

and a good probitic.  dudeling's ND has him on mindlinx  http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/p-pharmax-hlc-mindlinx-powder#.VmciZeKYEg0 I buy it off amazon. I think you need to buy it through a supplier - not amazon itself - to get it with an ice pack.   

 

I'm currently using hyperbiotics pro-15 for myself, because it has 15 strains, and is supposedly enteric coated to get it past your stomach.

Edited December 8, 2015 by gardenmom5

[Catwoman]

I have no experience with this, SKL, but I wanted to say that I admire you for having the courage to post about this and admit you're not sure what to do. It's very obvious to me that you have put a lot of time, thought, and effort into helping and working with your dd, and I'm sure you will find the best possible counselor for her even if it takes a bit of trial and error.

 

I do think she needs professional help, not because you aren't already doing a great job because I think you are, but because it sounds like the adoption issues can be tough to understand and navigate and having the help of someone who is experienced at it will make both your dd's life and your life much easier.

 

Your dd is lucky to have a concerned mom like you.

[SKL]

nm

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[Catwoman]

most commercial yogurt is loaded with sugar. (I now refuse to eat it.)

I only eat plain, unsweetened greek yogurt (no honey, nothing.). I add my own unsweetened (frozen, and thawed) berries/fruit. (I also throw in raw plain rolled oats.) greek yogurt has more types of probiotics than commerical yogurt.

 

even just eating alot of sugar (and not enough fresh veggies) - will throw off the balances, without needing any help from antibiotics. it's an easy place to start while also working other angles.

 

start with candida cleanses. start slow - die off throws out toxins, and can be extremely unpleasant. (especially the first time. just . . wow. I didn't know about starting slowly.) however, as you reduce her candida levels, her sugar cravings should naturally start to go down.

 

and a good probitic. dudeling's ND has him on mindlinx http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/p-pharmax-hlc-mindlinx-powder#.VmciZeKYEg0 I buy it off amazon. I think you need to buy it through a supplier - not amazon itself - to get it with an ice pack.

 

I'm currently using hyperbiotics pro-15 for myself, because it has 15 strains, and is supposedly enteric coated to get it past your stomach.

I wonder if SKL's dd might like a yogurt maker as a sort of crafty Christmas gift. She might think it was fun to make her own yogurt, yet SKL could control what additives (like sweeteners) were going into it.

 

I mentioned it as a possible extra Christmas gift because then it would seem like a fun thing and not a "healthy" thing.

[SKL]

Hmm, yogurt maker - great thought.  :)

[Catwoman]

Thanks for the list, but no, none of them are close.

 

I do have a friend referral to someone not too far from me, and that's who I called last week. I will try them first.

 

If your friend is happy with that person and you generally trust your friend's opinion, I think that is the best person to try. Obviously, everyone is different and your dd may not click with that counselor, but it's still a huge step over picking a name out of the phone book at random.

 

It's scary to trust people who are potentially going to have a lot of impact on your child, and in this case, it's a total stranger. :grouphug:

Edited December 8, 2015 by Catwoman

[SKL]

nm

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by SKL

[Catwoman]

Hmm, yogurt maker - great thought. :)

I bought one last year and it was inexpensive and easy to use -- and I had never made yogurt before I got it.

 

I just went and looked at it and it's called the Dash Greek Yogurt Maker.

[Kristie in Florida]

Without getting too personal...

 

I was a similar child. Counseling helped. I don't remember a lot of the specifics. My foster family was also amazing and patient with me. By the time I was a teen I was a completely different child.

[Catwoman]

I think I'm afraid of the unknown. And being vulnerable. And coming out with more questions than answers.

 

 

I would be feeling the same way. :grouphug: When you're used to being the person who solves the problems, it's hard to give up that control. It's also hard to admit when we need help, especially when the help is coming from someone we don't already know and trust. Edited December 8, 2015 by Catwoman

[mathnerd]

 

I only eat plain, unsweetened greek yogurt (no honey, nothing.).  I add my own unsweetened (frozen, and thawed) berries/fruit. (I also throw in raw plain rolled oats.)  greek yogurt has more types of probiotics than commerical yogurt.

 

even just eating alot of sugar (and not enough fresh veggies) - will throw off the balances, without needing any help from antibiotics.  

Another option is to drink plain kefir or plain kefir with fruit and greens in a smoothie. It is a great breakfast and has a ton of nutrition as well as more probiotic strains in large doses than most commercial yoghurts.

 

Also, being under a lot of stress will kill off the good bacteria in the gut and it does not necessarily have to be antibiotics or high carb eating.

[Happy]

Yeah, I think you should probably see someone, but be careful. My son doesn't have those issues, but we did decide to see a counselor last spring. And in the safe, non-judgemental environment of the counselor's office, where the kid was alone with a guy who was just focused on him, asking him non-intrusive questions and playing monopoly with him.... turns out that there's not a whole lot wrong with him, I got a lot of advice that didn't work and turns out that I'm the problem! Apparently I'm OCD. Though that was the first I ever heard of it. And I even I sent the guy via e-mail weekly narratives of this kid's behavior, attitude, etc. DS loved the sessions, he was the center of attention, nothing was required of him, etc. so none of his behavior problems came out. We stopped going to this guy. I don't know if we'll try again. Our issues aren't awful. We just thought counseling might help things run a little more smoothly. All that to say, it's hard to find a good one. Be careful.

Oh my, this brings back some memories. At first glance, it was always my fault. And, granted, I'm a bit of a free spirit with a child who obviously needed major structure...  But when someone really got to know us or dug into the issues, it was clear I was doing a pretty decent job.

 

I've heard RAD moms talk about similar things. It's mom's fault. Or if you did this, this, and this, your child would not act that way. Yeah, right. Better parenting does not always equal a 'better' behaved kid. (for lack of a better description.) I loved (not) one or two counselors, both women, who could not see past the charming exterior my good looking son presented off the bat...what a waste of time.

 

We finally found a counselor who understood attachment issues and was able to help. Unfortunately, I can say it does not cure...these issues can continue to raise their ugly heads into adulthood. The hope is your child learns coping skills to help them deal with what's going on inside them. That's why counseling NOW is good.

[gardenmom5]

Another option is to drink plain kefir or plain kefir with fruit and greens in a smoothie. It is a great breakfast and has a ton of nutrition as well as more probiotic strains in large doses than most commercial yoghurts.

 

Also, being under a lot of stress will kill off the good bacteria in the gut and it does not necessarily have to be antibiotics or high carb eating.

 

fermented foods.  pickles are good.  ;p

[texasmama]

Yes, I would take my dd to counseling with the list of issues you mention.  You said you have found someone who specializes in adoption issues, which is good and important.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes I think you should give it a try.  And I fully understand being nervous and hesitant and wondering if it is good or not.  Totally totally get that.  It takes a lot for me to go to a therapist.

 

Giving it a try does not mean you MUST go back if it doesn't feel right.  Or you can always try someone else if they don't turn out to be good.  Sometimes it takes a few tries to find someone that works for you.

 

 

[Liz CA]

I think I'm afraid of the unknown.  And being vulnerable.  And coming out with more questions than answers.

 

 

This is probably exactly the fear of nearly everyone who contemplates this step. Being vulnerable with a safe person is very healthy, freeing and healing. Good counselors are not there to judge you but to help you and your daughter. After you are being vulnerable you will find that the sun still rises and sets, the sky has not fallen and your counselor is most likely still sitting in her chair because she has probably heard it before. More questions will likely pop up but the counselor will help work through some things and should have concrete suggestions for you.

 

[Spryte]

I think I'm afraid of the unknown. And being vulnerable. And coming out with more questions than answers.

 

Those are reasonable feelings and fears. I hope you find an excellent therapist for your DD, one who really gets adoption issues. And that you get answers. It's tough, parenting. Especially when we have these extra issues on top of the usual stuff.