wondering if I can do this anymore

[Katy]

I was thinking about this some more. You could try something simple and nonstimulant, like Wellbutrin extended release.  I want to say there's a generic at Walmart that's $10/3 months.

 

Kids are so hard.

 

[PrairieSong]

{{{HUGS}}} My kids don't have the exact same issues as your son, but our oldest butted heads with me and went to ps for high school. She was quiet but very intense and very smart. She graduated with honors from high school and college and is now a sister in a religious order and very happy.

 

One of our sons was intelligent but had a lot of trouble reading. We were misdirected into vision therapy which helped some but wasn't the complete answer. Fast forward, he got very frustrated which caused him to have a bad attitude about school. He kind of gave up. He took classes at the cc and then ttransferred to a four year university. He will graduate next spring with an engineering degree and a high GPA.

 

Your son's life is not over and you have NOT failed him. You have put your heart and soul into finding answers for him. It is obvious that you care very deeply about him. If I were in your shoes I would want to disengage from all the drama, whether that means public school, Catholic school, online school, etc. I would want him to have to be accountable to someone else for school. I would help him if he asks AND if he has a good attitude.

[Tsuga]

I'm considering that as well. But honestly, he was so hard to deal with when he was in public school, it was no better. And he was constantly sick. The school here I later found out has issues from cement dust blowing in from the cement "factory" for lack of a better word, behind it. Maybe that's why he was sick, maybe it was stress, I don't know. 

 

:thumbdown:

 

Wow, that's awful. I'm sorry your options are so limited due to the environmental pollution. How horrible! My daughter has some kind of mild smoke allergy and our trip to California this summer made me realize how incredibly lucky we are to live here without all that pollution. It was Northern California, but it was still horrible. From just an hour after we crossed the Oregon border, she appeared to have a cold and didn't get rid of it until we were on the coast, then it came back, then again, she got rid of it magically in Oregon.

 

It just makes me weep for all the kids exposed to that day in, day out.

[Vida Winter]

Have not seen the other responses but can you just drop all the negative stuff and sit with him, work out a plan, and work alongside him until it is done? Alongside, I mean, sitting side by side until it is done. Not in his room. Give him breaks but sit with him and guide him until whatever you need done is completed. Offer plenty of help but do not let him go to his room until it is done.

[Guest]

He said, "I don't think you will let that happen." So I guess he needs to see himself fail and know I won't save him.

This is the tell. You're in a poker game and he just gave you the key to his bet.

 

He doesn't own his success. You do. You have to fix that and it means you have to stop talking and start/ keep acting.

 

I have a great deal of sympathy for your situation.

 

You have to make a move: the end result is that your son and you have to be on the same side--you are not his enemy...you are on HIS SIDE. But he has to own his life. He's old enough, and anyway, he is not LETTING you own it. So he owns it.

 

The family counselor we went to told me that as long as I insisted on feeling the pain for my son's failures, he would never feel it got himself. And it is only when we feel pain that we make changes in our lives toward what is healthy and good.

 

I didn't do s great job...had I to do it over, I woul listen instead of talking and ask instead of telling.

 

(((T))))

 

I get it.

 

 

(And things are working out ok here. But I would never ever wish to repeat that part of my life.)

[Guest]

One other thing--my son has told me that it would have been good for us to put him in school-school in about 8th grade--so I could be JUST his Mom and not so anxious about the education, discipline, and so on "stuff."

 

Whatever you do, make it so you are not the enemy. You are on his side.

[abcmommy]

Another reason I'd vote to send him to school rather than continuing to try to homeschool him...

 

If you homeschool him and let him fail, it will be YOUR FAULT.  (No, not really, but that's what he'll say).  You were 'too hard on him" or 'didn't give him enough flexiblity' or bla bla bla excuses, but you did the grading and you will write the transcript with the F's, and I'm telling you, he'll want to blame you.  Kids like this blame everyone but themselves.

 

At least if he went to ps and flunked out (or just pulled C's or D's), he can still try to blame you (bet he will), but you didn't give the assignments, grade the work, or write the transcript.  I also doubt he will really take it seriously even if you start handing out D's and F's.  Because he still won't really believe that you will put those grades on his final college transcript.  Something magic will happen, you will want him to get into college, so he won't take those grades seriously.

 

I think you need to let him fail (if he takes it that far), but I wouldn't put yourself in the position of being the one actually handing him the failing grades.  It will just give him more excuses to make it about you, and not about him.

I agree.  This is why my 18 is in K12.  Its a terrible school and I regret sending him there rather than the public school.  He is not thriving but at least its not my fault.  And at least Im just the mom and not the teacher.  I just hope he graduates.  

[Guest]

Have not seen the other responses but can you just drop all the negative stuff and sit with him, work out a plan, and work alongside him until it is done? Alongside, I mean, sitting side by side until it is done. Not in his room. Give him breaks but sit with him and guide him until whatever you need done is completed. Offer plenty of help but do not let him go to his room until it is done.

I love this idea...but I have to say that had I done this, someone would have ended up in jail. This would not have worked with my don. Well, actually, it didn't. The kid was trying to assert his individual personhood and my coming so close alongside was not helpful but detrimental to his goals. I see it now; I couldn't see it then.

[Catwoman]

My solution with ds has been to "teach the child I have". For over a year now that has meant only doing one class because that is all he could handle and succeed at. I know this is the opposite of how many people handle it and perhaps I'm doing it all wrong. But ds and I have a very close relationship and he is growing and learning. But it is taking him longer. But in the last year he's gotten a job all by himself, works 20 hours a week and is navigating all the social requirements of that. (It won't go on a transcript but I count this as Life Skills in my head because honestly, the neuro-psych said that many 2E Aspies never get to that point.) He's also learned a lot about executive function skills and while he still has a long way to go, is lightyears from where he was even a couple of years ago. He's 2E - once he gets a handle on the other stuff that most people take for granted, I have every confidence that the academic stuff will start to happen. He does compare himself negatively to his peers though and I had to remind him that just like I have to teach the child I have, he has to accept himself as the child God made. I think he will make it to college and beyond but in a slightly different trajectory and time table than his peers.

 

ETA: I've taught p.s. high school and I 100% know that if I had sent him there that he would have fallen through the cracks. This way has been tough and a bit hard on the ego esp. when I'm tempted to compare him to his peers, but I know I've been there to shore him up.

Who cares if others may have done things differently with their own kids? You have figured out what works for your son and that's all that matters.

 

In the long run, it won't matter whether he completed his schoolwork one subject at a time or ten subjects at a time or if it took half the time or twice the time. He is a very intelligent young man and if he achieves things differently than other teens, so what, right?

 

I think you are doing a great job, Jean. :)

[abcmommy]

I love this idea...but I have to say that had I done this, someone would have ended up in jail. This would not have worked with my don. Well, actually, it didn't. The kid was trying to assert his individual personhood and my coming so close alongside was not helpful but detrimental to his goals. I see it now; I couldn't see it then.

yup.

 

Mine (add and autism) does not want me to hand hold at all.  I sometimes wish he would let me help but at the same time I don't think its age appropriate for me to interfere.  Someone on the K12 parent group scheduled all her son's work out for each week for him.  Frankly that seems over involved to me.  Her kid got great grades but what's the cost?  I would rather my son flounder and learn during high school than be hand held into college and then I can not be there to help...

 

 

 

 

Why can I not like your posts??  No button!

[Vida Winter]

I love this idea...but I have to say that had I done this, someone would have ended up in jail. This would not have worked with my don. Well, actually, it didn't. The kid was trying to assert his individual personhood and my coming so close alongside was not helpful but detrimental to his goals. I see it now; I couldn't see it then.

 

This is the difference... I have girls. Our sons went to public school and that was even before I was a mom so I didn't know much of anything. Boys and girls are SO different.

 

I will just say....do what you think best and don't worry about what anyone thinks. Your relationship matters more than this class. :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

yup.

 

Mine (add and autism) does not want me to hand hold at all. I sometimes wish he would let me help but at the same time I don't think its age appropriate for me to interfere. Someone on the K12 parent group scheduled all her son's work out for each week for him. Frankly that seems over involved to me. Her kid got great grades but what's the cost? I would rather my son flounder and learn during high school than be hand held into college and then I can not be there to help...

 

 

 

 

Why can I not like your posts?? No button!

I think what would seem like over-involvement with one teen may be exactly what another teen needs.

 

Maybe the other mom knows that her ds still needs her help in order to stay organized and on-track. He may not need that level of parental involvement forever, but if he needs it now, I think it's great that she is providing him with the help he needs. Would it really be better if he was forced to try to handle everything on his own and failed as a result?

 

I do agree that the mom should be trying to help her ds transition to handling more and more of his own scheduling, but it may take him a long time to be ready to do that, and in the meantime with her help, he is seeing that he is able to excel at his schoolwork, which will hopefully give him the confidence to keep trying new things -- and succeed at them. If his mom sat back and allowed him to fail because he wasn't able to get organized, I don't think that would have done him any favors at all. I think it would have made him feel like a failure, despite the fact that he is actually a very intelligent kid.

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug:  btdt.

 

dudeling is an aspie - he used to fight about everything.  dd said he came so late becasue he needed to be surrounded by adults.  still has somethings, but is far more cooperative.  one incentive is if he wants computer time . . he has to do a) b) c).  I've tried to be very positive in how I word things with him - when you do ___, you can have the ___ you want.  he is limited in how much he can have, but it has affected his levels of cooperation.

 

I've been taking him to a ND who specializes in working with spectrum kids.  after extensive testing, we found what nutrients in which he was deficient. what metals he had too much. (fairly common.) supplementing deficiencies and treating contaminants, then treating the ASD anxiety.

 

he's made phenomenal progress.  in many ways, he's almost a different kid.  stil work to be done.  he also has APD and we're doing the next eval on that next week.

 

have you ever had his bloodwork evaluated for asd sensitivities/deficencies?

 

 

[Matryoshka]

I love this idea...but I have to say that had I done this, someone would have ended up in jail. This would not have worked with my don. Well, actually, it didn't. The kid was trying to assert his individual personhood and my coming so close alongside was not helpful but detrimental to his goals. I see it now; I couldn't see it then.

 

Yes, this.  If I tried to sit alongside her, it just annoyed the heck out of her.  I wasn't giving her space.  I didn't trust her to get her work done.  She couldn't get anything done with me sitting there.  But if I wasn't there, nothing would get done either.  I tried sitting in the same room on the computer instead of next to her - she'd still manage to sneak doing stuff she shouldn't.

 

I think this kind of strategy could work well with a scattered but compliant child.  Not with an oppositional one.  Nope.

 

This is the difference... I have girls. Our sons went to public school and that was even before I was a mom so I didn't know much of anything. Boys and girls are SO different.

 

Sigh.  Mine is a girl. And she doesn't have Asperger's.  Would love to know what makes her so stinking stubborn and feisty.  I've said since she was two that I could probably get her do anything I wanted if I just told her to do the opposite.  I sometimes repeat a mantra "compliant children make boring adults"  Don't know if that's entirely true, but it makes me feel just a teensy bit better...

 

Our relationship is better since she went to school last year.  Still some (well, maybe lots of) bumps, but very much better.  In her case, she isn't oppositional at all at school or anywhere else for that matter, she saves that for home.  Oh, fun.

[gardenmom5]

One other thing--my son has told me that it would have been good for us to put him in school-school in about 8th grade--so I could be JUST his Mom and not so anxious about the education, discipline, and so on "stuff."

 

Whatever you do, make it so you are not the enemy. You are on his side.

 

I have a friend who did exactly this with her aspie.  she's a certilfied teacher - and was a sahm, so she could easily have homeschooled him, but chose to place him in ps.  (we're in a good district.)

she told him repeatedly - I'm here to be your advocate, not your opponent. (she felt like if she tried to teach him - they'd spend all their time butting heads.)

I spent alot of time with this kid when he was young (same age as 1ds). . . . I think he was prepping me for dudeling.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Who cares if others may have done things differently with their own kids? You have figured out what works for your son and that's all that matters.

 

In the long run, it won't matter whether he completed his schoolwork one subject at a time or ten subjects at a time or if it took half the time or twice the time. He is a very intelligent young man and if he achieves things differently than other teens, so what, right?

 

I think you are doing a great job, Jean. :)

Thank you.  I guess time will tell.

 

It hasn't been easy.  And I can't give anyone "cookbook" advice that tells you to add one cup of this and one cup of that because your child and your family and your circumstances are all different from mine.  From year to year and even from day to day my approach has changed with my son.  The main constant in all of it has been trying to calm down my own reactions and to get some objectivity so that I can respond to his needs, not my own.  (Mine are important too but I'm the adult here.)  Anxiety comes out in a bunch of different ways, including combativeness.  Frustration can be a result of truly being overwhelmed by stuff that seems second nature to me but isn't to him.  By speaking mostly to the underlying need instead of the surface stuff, ds has come to slowly trust that I truly am on his side.  I push sometimes.  I coax sometimes.  I walk away sometimes.  I empathize sometimes.  Often I do all of the above in the same half hour.  

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug:  :grouphug:  

[Another Lynn]

The one I butted heads with is in school now.  I think disengaging and docking points for late assignments is the right move.  If he is doubting you will really let this impact his grade, I wonder if there is a neutral way you could show him his cumulative grade every so often.  For example, my ds's school has an app where students and parents can see grades at any point in time.  It shows all the assignments, grades on each one, if one is missing and calculates the overall grade based on what things are worth (i.e. tests are 50% of grade, etc...)  Could you keep something like this in Excel and print it out once a week and give to him without comment, etc, so he sees how late assignments are effecting the overall calculation, and perhaps convince him that there won't be any mommy magic when it's time to do transcripts. 

[ktgrok]

Has he tried ADHD meds at all?  That might be another angle to approach.  I know a couple kids that started drugs in high school that were just bright enough to get through to that point and it mad a night and day difference to their ability to stay focused and self motivated. 

 

I just think it's completely understandable if you are ready to pull yourself out of the picture.  I have distanced myself from what my 9th grader is doing day to day.  Is online charter an option if your local PS is not an option? 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

He absolutely refuses to try ADHD meds. We do go through a lot of cold brew coffee though. We are also getting him a lap top he can do his work on but that can't be used for gaming,t hat he can take to starbucks or the library, to help with the distractions. 

 

We tried one class in the online charter, and it went abysmally. No textbooks, no real order to the lessons, not good. But outsourcing more may have to happen. Right now he's taking Latin with an online co-op in Texas, and that's going well, and an online Linux class via dual enrollment. He says that's going well, I have no way to know for sure. 

 

Teaching textbooks for math means I have no direct invilvment there other than making sure it gets done. Which has been awful. But I'm just going to require he send me screeen shots of the grade book and go by that, taking off 10 points per day it's late. 

[ktgrok]

:thumbdown:

 

Wow, that's awful. I'm sorry your options are so limited due to the environmental pollution. How horrible! My daughter has some kind of mild smoke allergy and our trip to California this summer made me realize how incredibly lucky we are to live here without all that pollution. It was Northern California, but it was still horrible. From just an hour after we crossed the Oregon border, she appeared to have a cold and didn't get rid of it until we were on the coast, then it came back, then again, she got rid of it magically in Oregon.

 

It just makes me weep for all the kids exposed to that day in, day out.

 

Yup. I had assumed he was ill from a lowered immune system from lack of sleep, due to having to get up so early. But I talked to someone that used to teach there, and she said all the teachers are constantly sick because of the cement dust. There are no interior hallways, so everytime they switch classes they are exposed. the symptoms she described matched his exactly. 

[ktgrok]

Have not seen the other responses but can you just drop all the negative stuff and sit with him, work out a plan, and work alongside him until it is done? Alongside, I mean, sitting side by side until it is done. Not in his room. Give him breaks but sit with him and guide him until whatever you need done is completed. Offer plenty of help but do not let him go to his room until it is done.

 

In a word, No. We did that when he was younger and having me right there meant an audience for his drama. Doing it on his own means less hysterics, by far. And with two little kids in the house (5 and 3) he can't concentrate anyway with them running around. He just got noise canceling headphones to wear during school, even in his room (which he says are helping a lot). 

[ktgrok]

I love this idea...but I have to say that had I done this, someone would have ended up in jail. 

 

LOL! Yeah....that would be the same here. In jail or in a graveyard. There is just no way. This is a kid that, if you say the sky is blue will argue for twenty minutes that it isn't, just to argue. Less feedback is better. 

[ktgrok]

You are right. I think I'd been thinking, "whatever else happens, I can't let him fail." That worked for my parents with me. It won't work for him. 

This is the tell. You're in a poker game and he just gave you the key to his bet.

He doesn't own his success. You do. You have to fix that and it means you have to stop talking and start/ keep acting.

I have a great deal of sympathy for your situation.

You have to make a move: the end result is that your son and you have to be on the same side--you are not his enemy...you are on HIS SIDE. But he has to own his life. He's old enough, and anyway, he is not LETTING you own it. So he owns it.

The family counselor we went to told me that as long as I insisted on feeling the pain for my son's failures, he would never feel it got himself. And it is only when we feel pain that we make changes in our lives toward what is healthy and good.

I didn't do s great job...had I to do it over, I woul listen instead of talking and ask instead of telling.

(((T))))

I get it.


(And things are working out ok here. But I would never ever wish to repeat that part of my life.)

 

[Lizzie in Ma]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Jenny in Florida]

Argh. I typed out a long response to this last night sharing my own experiences with my son, but the internet ate it. I have to leave for work in 10 minutes and don't have time to replicate now, but I'll try and get the gist in quickly.

 

My guy has no diagnosed issues, other than being too smart for everyone's good. However, I hit the wall with him when he was 14. I had put a lot of time and effort into planning what I hoped was a wonderful, creative, rigorous curriculum for that year, but by October, we were at each other's throats all the time. He simply wouldn't get anything done, and I was exhausted from the constant nagging and negotiation and frustration. Finally, one Friday afternoon, I e-mailed my husband and said I was done. I was "expelling" our son from my homeschool and, unless we came up with a different plan over the weekend, I would be depositing him at the nearest public high school on Monday morning.

 

Once my son realized I was serious about that, I had his attention, especially when I made it clear that, although he was working on his second year of high school, I was pretty sure he would have to start over with 9th grade, because the public school would place him by age.

 

After a number of intense discussions over the weekend, we finally decided that we would enroll him in a full slate of online classes. He did FLVS for everything except science and math, and we chose ALEKS for those. It meant starting the year over in October, which meant he either needed to do extra assignments every week or commit to working into the summer to finish. We also put in place painfully clear expectations for his grades -- both in individual courses and his overall GPA -- and clear consequences for what would happen if he failed to stay on pace and meet those expectations every single day.

 

My role was reduced to the purely administrative. I logged on to FLVS and ALEKS a couple of times every day to check his progress and grades.

 

At the same time, we agreed to increase the number of dance classes he took every week, with the understanding that he would not be allowed to attend on any day he wasn't caught up in school.

 

The combination of concrete rules about grades and progress and the threat of missing out on activities he cared about worked magic. After he missed a couple of afternoons at the dance school -- and one memorable day when I went and pulled him out of choir practice after he had been told not to go -- we never had another issue.

 

I will admit that I grieved. I felt I had failed. I mourned the loss of the academic plans I had for him, and I was hurt that he seemed to prefer what I considered the inferior classes he was taking. It made me crazy to watch him skate by submitting work I would have made him do over and getting good enough grades.

 

But, by the end of the first semester, things began to improve. His grades were excellent, nearly straight A's. We were getting along. He was happy as a clam at dance and began assisting in classes. Every adult in his life said wonderful things about him. 

 

He finished the year with a single B (in chemistry). The following year, based on his grades and the fact that he had already completed two years of high school, he was allowed to begin dual enrollment at the community college, even though he wouldn't be 16 until late in the spring.

 

The year after that, he was admitted to the college of his choice, where he is now chugging along in his sophomore year. Our relationship is good. He's happy and thriving and still likes to come home for weekends whenever he can.

 

I hope you find an approach that works as well for you and your son.

[ktgrok]

Ok, if he continues to stay home, and we do this where I am just grading things dispassionately, I may need to switch up the curriculum at some point. I started a thread on "Get 'r Done" curriculum for high school, if anyone wants to chime in over there, or here for that matter, on things that have clear assginments, can be done independently, and have objective things for me to grade. 

[ktgrok]

Is he interested in more challenging math?

What does he just want to get done?

 

He just wants to get all of it done, so he can focus on computer stuff. He admins a server part time, and games with his friends. 

[Serenade]

 

Of course, he currently has no output in history (bookshar/sonlight) so I guess I'd grade him on discussions? Or pay the money for this? http://www.amazon.com/History-US-Assesment-Books-Assessment/dp/0195153480

 

Just an FYI -- these are not worth the money, IMO.  I used about half of them with my older son last year and then I ditched them.  There are a lot of lame questions, IMO, and there are a number of mistakes -- I found several where the answer key was just plain wrong.

 

Some people use the tests from Hewitt.  I have not used them, so I can't comment directly, but they seem to be more popular.

 

I really appreciate your post here.  I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but all that you've shared makes me feel less alone.  People who have never had a child like this can simply not understand.   I appreciate the responses on the thread, too.  It seems like so often when I've posted similar (not on this forum), there always seems to be mommy-blaming, and I'm so happy that I've not seen it here.

[ktgrok]

Just an FYI -- these are not worth the money, IMO.  I used about half of them with my older son last year and then I ditched them.  There are a lot of lame questions, IMO, and there are a number of mistakes -- I found several where the answer key was just plain wrong.

 

Some people use the tests from Hewitt.  I have not used them, so I can't comment directly, but they seem to be more popular.

 

I really appreciate your post here.  I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but all that you've shared makes me feel less alone.  People who have never had a child like this can simply not understand.   I appreciate the responses on the thread, too.  It seems like so often when I've posted similar (not on this forum), there always seems to be mommy-blaming, and I'm so happy that I've not seen it here.

 

Thank you! I do have the Hewitt tests, I'll use those. 

 

And yes, if you haven't had this kind of kid, you can't imagine. I look at my other two who are so totally different. They are a joy. He is...hard. And has been since he took his first breath. Even at a few months old my mom was trying to tell me there was something....not right. That it wasn't normal the way he acted. He wasn't diagnosed until age 11, when I was so overwhelmed I had to do something. But yes, I need to keep repeating, this isn't me, it's him. 

 

And let him take ownership. Let him fail. I talked about that with my husband today (wasn't ready to last night) and was worried he'd think it was a failure on our part if the teen failed. My husband laughed and remined me that he himself is a highschool drop out, working now for a fortune 500 company making six figures. So it isn't he end of the world. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dh and I had an argument again last night re our ds.  We always argue about ds but never about dd.  He thinks I'm too soft on ds.  I think that dh hasn't spent enough time in the trenches with ds to really know.  If I ask ds to do ABCD and he shuts down, then it does no good to try and force it.  So I ask him to do ABC well, or in our case for awhile, AB.  Then as he did well, I added in C.  Now he's doing ABCand a little part of D.  But I know that the shut downs are not due to stubbornness (though of course there is aspie rigidity there) and disobedience (though his arguing can seem like it) , but are due to genuinely being overwhelmed.  Some of the being overwhelmed is sensory.  Some of it is having to focus for longer than he can sustain.  Ds has been deadset against meds too and as a teen, I could not force him.  Ds now at 18 wants to explore the issue of meds.  He knows that he wants to focus longer on schoolwork.  What I'm facing now is that dh is deadset against the meds because he thinks that ds should just have the mental toughness and self control to focus on his own.  We are exploring the meds.  And we're working on strategies for helping him with executive function skills.  

 

Once I stopped trying to push when ds shut down, he started to trust me more.  He is now free to admit that at the core, he's frustrated wtih himself. even if a lot of the talk was turned towards me at first.    And I'm free to encourage him that as frustrating and difficult as it is, that he can learn how to manage this and that he can have the success he wants with life.  

[ktgrok]

I really don't think mine is overwhelmed. Trust me, if you saw the workload you wouldn't either. It's that he THINKS he can get it all done "later" and then gets yes, a bit overwhelmed. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just sharing our situation.  Perhaps someone else out there in cyberland will have one that is similar in some ways to mine.  

[gardenmom5]

 

 

And yes, if you haven't had this kind of kid, you can't imagine. I look at my other two who are so totally different. They are a joy. He is...hard. And has been since he took his first breath. Even at a few months old my mom was trying to tell me there was something....not right. That it wasn't normal the way he acted. He wasn't diagnosed until age 11, when I was so overwhelmed I had to do something. But yes, I need to keep repeating, this isn't me, it's him.

 

In my experience, there are three kinds of kids.  most people only have the first two.

 

those that are malleable and influenced by their environment.

those that are basically, just really good kids and will eventually make wise choices with little environmental influence.

.

.

.

.

.

and those that will give the best parents in the world a run for their money. 

 

congratulations - you have one of the third, and most challenging group.  (some people are aware of this group - other's think every kid is from the first one.)

 

there are days, I feel like I have dudeling because God trusted me with him.  (incidently, I developed this idea before I had him.)

 

I've a friend who has a son who suffered a TBI at birth.  he is seriously disabled. blind, can't walk, can't talk, can't feed himself, etc. and never will. (he's in his 30's, and his health is starting to fail.) she helped a friend with an ADD/other child for a week.  her comment was, she'd rather deal with her son's disabilities because they are much, much easier.

[ktgrok]

Just sharing our situation.  Perhaps someone else out there in cyberland will have one that is similar in some ways to mine.  

 

Sorry! I didn't mean to minimize what you were saying...I am more like your kid, so I get it. Just clarifying that wasn't our situation. 

[jelbe5]

I am so sorry. My oldest daughter was the same way. I would like to share my experience with you.

 

When she was 16 I finally told her she could finish school with me, finish school at the local high school, drop out and get a job or look at taking a class at the local community college.

 

She decided to try the community college. She wanted to take a mythology class but had to take English Comp 101 first. She loves to write and does well in that subject. She took the class in the summer. It was challenging for her and she worked very hard but did well. Later she asked me if I knew it would be challenging. I told her I hoped it would be since that might be a bit of a wake up call.

 

Before I registered her I warned her that if she deliberately failed the class by not doing the work I would take the tuition money from her savings account, which I was on as a payback. Her father and I were willing to pay as long as she applied herself.

 

After the summer class she registered for the mythology class which she loved. She began taking classes at the community college to finish out her credits. She is still struggling to figure out what she should major in, but she has had great success at the community college. She is involved in a club, has acted in one of their plays, has been recognized in the creative writing contest which includes students from other regional community colleges, has been invited to join a group due to her high GPA and has done well academically. It has been one of the best decisions we have ever made. She later told me she wanted me to be her mom, not her teacher. I get that. I am just glad we are making progress.

 

Since your son is interested in a computer-related field I wonder if he could begin to take classes for a degree or a related certificate in that field. It might be the the jump-start needed. Just a thought.

[ktgrok]

 

Since your son is interested in a computer-related field I wonder if he could begin to take classes for a degree or a related certificate in that field. It might be the the jump-start needed. Just a thought.

 

He already is...he's taking a Linux Shell Scripting class (i don't even know what that is, but DH does) through the community college. He'll take the next class in the sequence next semester and then can test for the Linux + certification. 

[jelbe5]

He already is...he's taking a Linux Shell Scripting class (i don't even know what that is, but DH does) through the community college. He'll take the next class in the sequence next semester and then can test for the Linux + certification.

Sorry, just read through all the responses. Also, is he being paid for the server job you mentioned? If so I'd tell him you are done paying for things such as the costume and dance in the future. You might be willing to renegotiate that as a reward for work done but perhaps not.

 

What does your dh have to say? Perhaps your son looks at the fact that your dh is successful (I think you said your dh dropped out?) and figures he can follow the same path?

 

ETA to say that I guess I would be inclined to let him continue to focus on his success in the computing classes. If he is working and earning money perhaps he should help pay for the classes or at least pay for the fun things he wants. Or pay something for room and board . . .

[kbutton]

I have a 2e ASD kiddo. He's 11. My words will be direct, but they are not meant to be blaming on you at all--I am hoping to offer some troubleshooting ideas even though my son isn't that age yet. I personally think that the late diagnosis of 2e ASD kiddos is a travesty and is something that needs to change. It's hard to put a finger on what's up when they are little, and then it's so hard to get in front of it when you finally know what's going on because they are used to the status quo.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Wild shot in the dark...could you alternate semesters or quarters with him where he has one semester he plans, and one where you plan until he is finished? You could figure out what his classes will qualify for on a transcript (electives, etc.). He could figure out what he needs to complete in order to graduate (after filling in his interests), and he can see what he needs to do to fill in. He would have to submit proposals that work--x amount of the textbook or number or hours, etc. He would have to outline how he wants to be accountable. My reason for suggesting this is partly because he's arguing with you all the time, and it would probably be better for him to argue with graduation requirements instead. It sounds like he's constantly changing/framing the argument so that he can win it. This is partly a smart kid thing and partly the fact that ASD kiddos don't have a more persuasive way of winning arguments. It's both his biggest bully strategy and his Achilles' heel, but he's probably not as aware or as prepared as he seems--I think this is exploitable (that sounds so bad, but he should not have you up against a wall like this). I think if I were in such a frustrating situation, I would quietly do something that helps me personally prepare and take a break from him. During that time, do only what is necessary to keep body and soul together for him for school (getting the disposable dishes like you have done or are planning to do is an example of dealing with something in a barebones way while decoupling it from your own functioning as a person). Back off as much as you can for yourself, not for him. Who cares what he thinks during this time (he might actually become kind of vulnerable without the support and nagging and expose some additional strategies you can use).*** Then, come out with a serious plan at a semester break or some other time that works for you. It should be written down in contract form for him to sign. The plan can be about how you will proceed (and outline his responsibilities if you will share planning jointly), and if you don't want to leave the class planning up to him or share it with him, the plan should include your plans, whether that's a new school, classes online, etc. Enlist reinforcements from people that mean something to you and to him to back YOU up. It's okay if he thinks he's winning something as long as you've planned it out and it's supportive to YOU. Don't leave much to be made up as you go along. Talk through the plan with your support folks until you feel as though you can not have him easily undermine you because he found a loophole or something.

 

If you alternate semesters, he could potentially pursue his couple of passions with abandon, but when the semester is over, he must do your planned semester. He could potentially do a year's worth of a subject in a semester, and do fewer classes at a time. This gives him the room to hang himself with his own noose. And you don't have to give up your evenings and weekends to dreading when he'll get home from school. I think online classes, school, Catholic school are all potential options, but I totally understand about the fighting and fallout of that. I hated that when my son did school (and that was K-2!).

 

I would try to find something he really wants to do that requires your permission (and ideally that makes him depend on you for transportation or whatever), and I would tie his ability to participate in that endeavor to a trial of meds and a certain degree of compliance. Something well-designed where there is time to work out dosages and the right meds if the first try doesn't work. Many people take short-acting meds for specific tasks without taking them all the time. They are life-changing at our house. 

 

At this point, it's you that's really suffering the brunt of his ill-temper and shortsightedness, and that is so unfair. I am sorry you are dealing with that. My son was diagnosed at 9, so we had much better options for getting ahead of this ASD stuff. Mine argued before he could speak, and he was an early talker. I can see my son being on a similar trajectory so easily (though he has trouble with slower work pace and such, like Jean's son). 

 

I am hearing that tech stuff is your son's currency, and if he doesn't agree to some kind of workable plan that includes him submitting to some kind of plan with accountability, I would seriously consider pulling the plug on some of the tech stuff, but I would enlist some serious help and backup from husband, counselor, pediatrician, anyone who holds some kind of sway or authority over him. I also can't imagine living with the fallout, so I say that as a "last resort" option, but I do think if it's well planned, it could work.

 

My son sometimes needs to be able to choose between two options. If the option he ought to choose is unpleasant, then the alternative needs to be horrid so that he will choose the "right" thing. Sounds terrible, but it's a winning strategy. 

Lastly, if I sound like I am confident this will work and that it will be perfect, I don't mean that at all. This is just a strategy that sounds like it could turn the tables on him. I've had people give me fantastic ideas that worked for them but that I couldn't pull off, and then those people are angry when I don't use it. No strings here. Just a possible set of ideas IF they work for you.

 

*** With more reflection, I would go so far as to say that if he feels like he's winning something with the new plans in place, that will strengthen his interest in complying. If you can make him feel as though he's gained something important to him, that might be huge.

[Matryoshka]

 

I am hearing that tech stuff is your son's currency, and if he doesn't agree to some kind of workable plan that includes him submitting to some kind of plan with accountability, I would seriously consider pulling the plug on some of the tech stuff, but I would enlist some serious help and backup from husband, counselor, pediatrician, anyone who holds some kind of sway or authority over him. I also can't imagine living with the fallout, so I say that as a "last resort" option, but I do think if it's well planned, it could work.

 

I have no idea if this would work with OP's kid, but this idea totally backfires with my dd.  She will totally shut down with any negative reinforcement - she responds much better to positive.  If I say "if you don't do X (or keep on doing Y), then your tech will go away", she'll say right out "well, now I have no reason to work at all."   And she won't.  :banghead:

 

What works much better is to get out ahead of it and find carrots for her to work for.  But it's sooo hard to keep on top of it and ahead of it and to come up with 'rewards' - and she needs access to a computer to do most of her work and she will happily play free random internet games, or use it for drawing/art, so not installing games on the computer doesn't keep her from wasting time with it.  Every blocking program we've tried also blocks the stuff she needs for school. It is exhausting.

[texasmama]

My ASD kid does better with outsourced classes.  He is outsourced for math (Jann in Texas' online class), biology (co-op), Spanish (Landry online class), and he takes English in a co-op class with me as the teacher so it is a bit removed from sitting in the living room doing English with just mom.  He is independent with history, but he works very slowly in general so history is being ignored for now and bumped to the summer.  He plays on a competitive basketball team, and he is good at it.  This is an important part of his schooling and life.  He is invested in doing well in his classes, but he struggles with time management, prioritizing, and he is hampered by the fact that it takes him 2-3 times as long to do many things as it would take many students. 

 

The last couple of years were a struggle for us, and things are much better between us with me in a role removed from the day to day teaching of material.  He is accountable to outside teachers, not me.  He is doing well and working to his potential.  Our relationship is improved.

[Lisa R.]

He wants to go to a 4 yr college and study information security, and do that for a living, like my husband. Which of course requires grades and such.

 

I told him fine, if he isn't going to study he will just get a bad grade, and that effects him going to college. He said, "I don't think you will let that happen." So I guess he needs to see himself fail and know I won't save him.

So he knows what type of a career he wants, which is fantastic.

 

Since this job is the same as your dh's, I would ask dh to find a colleague and have him talk to ds. (I realize dh could do this, but someone outside the family would be more effective at this point.) Colleague could tell ds about the job, allow him to shadow and stress that this job comes with a four year degree. In a hard job market, better grades get a better job, Etc. Really, it's nothing you haven't already told him, but seeing and hearing about the career and getting advice from a professional he doesn't personally know can have great impact.

 

I'd also enroll him in a couple community college courses next semester and phase out teaching at home. Visit community college counselor and hear that these grades count on his permanent college record.

 

He's motivated enough to want a challenging job. The switch hasn't yet flipped in his mind that work is required for that job. I think others might be better able to help him now. He seems like he needs a change. Hang in there!

[kbutton]

I have no idea if this would work with OP's kid, but this idea totally backfires with my dd.  She will totally shut down with any negative reinforcement - she responds much better to positive.  If I say "if you don't do X (or keep on doing Y), then your tech will go away", she'll say right out "well, now I have no reason to work at all."   And she won't.  :banghead:

 

What works much better is to get out ahead of it and find carrots for her to work for.  But it's sooo hard to keep on top of it and ahead of it and to come up with 'rewards' - and she needs access to a computer to do most of her work and she will happily play free random internet games, or use it for drawing/art, so not installing games on the computer doesn't keep her from wasting time with it.  Every blocking program we've tried also blocks the stuff she needs for school. It is exhausting.

 

I have one of each type of kiddo. :-)

[HeWillSoar]

Have not seen the other responses but can you just drop all the negative stuff and sit with him, work out a plan, and work alongside him until it is done? Alongside, I mean, sitting side by side until it is done. Not in his room. Give him breaks but sit with him and guide him until whatever you need done is completed. Offer plenty of help but do not let him go to his room until it is done.

 

I liked this post because this is how I work it with my 15 year old on the spectrum kid.  BUT I do realize that it might be quite a bit different because my son was in public school up until 7th grade and he is very cooperative with me.  He knows homeschool is much better than what he was dealing with and he does not want to go back.  So I have a cooperative kid to deal with.

 

I also didn't want to post because this is only our second year--what do I know?!  But I will tell you how we do things with a cooperative kid on the spectrum.   We work together on things in the morning that require my teaching.  Then he is set free after that to do what he can do on his own.  I am around if he needs me.   He does not do anything else until his work is finished.    At some point, we will work it to where he has to get X done by a certain deadline but he's not ready for that yet.  The work is not always the best quality and he will try to get things done quickly if he can.  I don't expect a kid at his age to truly get that his future is at stake here.  I know I didn't put my best into my work at that age.  All I cared about was boys.  It wasn't until I was much older that I really wished I could go back and change things.  So I don't know if that helps or not but that's what is working well for us right now. 

 

One thing I can really commiserate on is the dishes.  Having two teenage boys, I never seem to have any dishes. 

[ktgrok]

Having talk to someone outside the family is brilliant. My husband has college interns...one just went to work at Google. Maybe he could talk with him. And dh was going to take him to a meeting of UCF Hacks..a group of computer types from our local college.

[catz]

 

 - and she needs access to a computer to do most of her work and she will happily play free random internet games, or use it for drawing/art, so not installing games on the computer doesn't keep her from wasting time with it.  Every blocking program we've tried also blocks the stuff she needs for school. It is exhausting.

 

We have had some luck with Microsoft Family Safety.  You have to manually approve EVERY website they visit and it's a royal pain.  If he needs something like google access during school, that is limited and he needs to ask to use my computer.  I own the passwords for all kids accounts.  Each kid has a school account and a "fun" account.  There is no fun account access before 3 pm or until school work is done.  I started this probably in about 5th/6th grade for my oldest who is also my gamer and it's still working for him as a 9th grader.  I think it would be harder to roll out initially for a teen for sure.  My kid was constantly gaming when I wasn't watching before this. 

 

If he's having success in the CC class and doing academically well in it, I'd worry much less. 

 

[Matryoshka]

We have had some luck with Microsoft Family Safety.  You have to manually approve EVERY website they visit and it's a royal pain.  If he needs something like google access during school, that is limited and he needs to ask to use my computer.  I own the passwords for all kids accounts.  Each kid has a school account and a "fun" account.  There is no fun account access before 3 pm or until school work is done.  I started this probably in about 5th/6th grade for my oldest who is also my gamer and it's still working for him as a 9th grader.  I think it would be harder to roll out initially for a teen for sure.  My kid was constantly gaming when I wasn't watching before this.

The problem we've had with blocking software where you have to approve every site is that a most (all?) of the school/learning sites bring up all kinds of 'background' pages or videos that work through YouTube - the 'background' pages are impossible to approve because it never says what they are - you try to open a page and it says 'opening xlciuwlkejroucxlj.htm' or something, and 5 other gobbeldygook pages, to get you to the page you're really trying to get to. And if I have to okay YouTube, that's opened up her watching anything there.  :glare:  

 

Have you managed to work around that with Microsoft Family Safety?

[elegantlion]

My son is stubborn and only motivated by internal motivation. He never cared about grades, so what, he thought, who will see them. My carrot was that he has a goal to achieve that requires a BS at least and lots of stretching his introverted self. 

 

I sat him down and showed him how GPA and test scores could play into college acceptance and scholarships. He's also frugal and wants as a few as loans as possible. He picked a local non-competitive school to start with and it's a good fit. All my "nagging" became focused on helping with his goal, not me wanting him to succeed. There's a fine line, but it's working for now. 

 

6 weeks into college he's doing all right. Still doesn't care about grades, but realizes he needs a certain GPA to maintain his scholarships. The kid that didn't care about my deadlines is keeping the ones at school. He still waits until the last minute sometimes, but when we walk out the door for school, the work is done. He's missed a few nights of sleep (he's a night owl anyway). 

 

He's still motivated by his goal and his internal desire to get done with school as quickly as possible. He's not the same kid that lackadaisically did his homeschool work last year. He'd still rather work on programming and Japanese and that's it, but realizes he needs the other classes and has to do well.

Can you consider dual-enrollment in a class on his interest? That might help him see the workload. 

 

Ds always has to see things for himself for it to sink in (he gets that from like everyone in the family).

 

Our last few years of homeschooling were get-er-done in a few subjects with a higher focus on his two main interests. I started looking at skills and how those might be covered in various subjects. We didn't finish everything I had planned, but like Jean said, I had to teach the student I had. He's not a competitive A student, at least not in the general studies area.

 

If I get time, I'll jump over to the high school board and see if I can add some tips. I guess I just wanted to let you know those stubborn kids can really come into their own in college and :grouphug:  :grouphug: it will be okay, this is not a failure.  

[ktgrok]

And...in the latest news, he totally didn't do a test in his online Latin class. He says that last time they had all weekend to do it, so he thought they did again. (despite my earlier reminders to always check dates as they can change any time). But it was due Saturday afternoon. (so he says). Of course, he didn't tell me this yesterday, he said it this morning, which makes me think even if he'd had the whole weekend he would have forgotten. GRR. 

 

I told him to email his teacher and let her know that he didn't mean to not do the test, he had the date wrong, and to apologize. She probably won't let him make it up, but at least she'd know he wasn't blowing her off. He didn't email her, and says he won't, because "he doesn't want to."

 

Do I email her? Let it go? I'm leaning towards "let it go". 

 

And going to buy him a student planner or something. Not that he doesn't have access to a million calendar apps, including homeschool planet, where all his other schoolwork is spelled out for him. 

[ktgrok]

and..going over his teaching textbook gradebook, now that he's "done" with Algebra 2. finding lots of lessons he said he did, but didn't do. Or only did a few problems of. Going to just average his test grades and call it done. But he is on notice that i want a screen shot DAILY of the gradebook for geometry, to see what was done. 

[ktgrok]

So, to update, he currently has 5 assignments overdue, 2 of which are two days past due, and he is claiming he's too sick today to have schoolwork today. He did attend his online Latin class, but that's it. 

 

He told me he doesn't need a good GPA to get into the school he's most likley planning on, so I pulled up the average GPA and assured him he is wrong. 

 

We are fighting less, because of the new "you do it or you don't, I don't care, I just mark off the grades" stance. So that's worth something. But it's breaking my heart a bit to see him just blow everything off.