wondering if I can do this anymore

[elegantlion]

(((Katie))) I'm sorry. 

[ktgrok]

(((Katie))) I'm sorry. 

 

Thanks. In the scheme of things, he's not doing drugs, he's not partying or having sex. But watching such a smart kid do so badly just hurts, you know? 

 

Today we got lab supplies in the mail, a big box with a brand new microscope and slide kit. He didn't care one bit. How is he even my kid???   Nope. If it isn't computer based he doesn't care. 

[texasmama]

I understand from experience, speaking of my kid who is now in college.   :grouphug:   She was never homeschooled, but I still had to let go of bad grades in high school due to lack of effort.  In college, she still performs suboptimally due to lack of effort.  Truthfully, I performed suboptimally due to lack of effort until mid-college.  It all worked out in the end.

[unsinkable]

.

[mamiof5]

And tomorrow I need to take him for a haircut, to get a costume, and to his halloween dance I already paid for. Like I want to do that. But I also am done punishing for this crap.

I have no words or suggestions, really don't know anything about aspies and how can that affect their behavior. But I am just wondering, would public school work for you again? But totally disengaging from it though (which I am sure it would be incredibly hard)...but if he does his work, fine, if he doesn't... fine too. He has to answer to the school, not you. Whatever consequences he has for not doing his work would be his problem. And, I quoted the above because this did get my attention. If he understands what he is doing, and even doing it on purpose to argue with you... there's no way on earth I would have taken him nor even a mike down the street. Not punishing, but if someone is purposely going to treat me like that, I am sorry, I just wouldn't find it in me to take him to do those extra activities. That's just me :) Good luck!!!!

[ktgrok]

We tried public school last year, and it just made him worse to be around after the initial fun wore off. He was tired and sick all the time. We have since then learned that many teachers have similar illnesses from the school...it backs up to a concrete factory, and the suspicion is that the dust is causing respiratory illness. Yesterday he was there for the PSAT and within hours had a headache,a nd woke up today with his sinuses visibly swollen, eyes red, and a cough. He was like that constantly when he went there. So not an option really. 

 

What we are doing is he either does the work or doesn't. I grade what I get, with 10 percent off per day late. If I never get it he gets a zero. Period. I've changed things up so every day there are written assignments to grade. I won't yell, nag, or beg. He can pass or not. 

 

So our relationship is better in that we aren't constantly fighting. But it's just killing me to watch. 

[Professormom]

You are not a failure. He has failed to take responsibility for his own education. You have set up all the support you could, it sounds like. I love your plan to take a huge step back. So not a failure.

:Iagree: and :grouphug:

 

I wish I had answers:-(

[Guest]

So, to update, he currently has 5 assignments overdue, 2 of which are two days past due, and he is claiming he's too sick today to have schoolwork today. He did attend his online Latin class, but that's it. 

 

He told me he doesn't need a good GPA to get into the school he's most likley planning on, so I pulled up the average GPA and assured him he is wrong. 

 

We are fighting less, because of the new "you do it or you don't, I don't care, I just mark off the grades" stance. So that's worth something. But it's breaking my heart a bit to see him just blow everything off. 

 

 

It still breaks my heart, 2+ years after he graduated.  I am cleaning out old stuff, and yesterday I cleaned out the College Application Notebook.  So many hopes that he would just take one gap year.  

 

I find old papers where he was writing fabulous essays on topics of great depth and now I just see his brain rotting.  

 

I find little notes he wrote to me, and I see his heart so ... frostbitten now.  He's so distant.  He's warmer than he was...but

 

 

I see soft heart and deep intelligence and it's just so deeply buried right now.  I've been handling things OK for about a year, but this job...I think it is too much for me still, and I think I shall put the boxes back in the garage and wait a couple more years.  

 

But I wish I had done what you are doing much sooner than I did it.  Hang in there.  

[Tsuga]

I am sorry Katie. My mom said during middle school she was sure she'd find me at 21 rating out of garbage cans.

 

I do think now is the time to let him know you are concerned and you love him but it's his life. And definitely don't increase college credits. He will need CC and financial aid to be there when he's ready.

 

Huge hugs. I have a step-step-nephew dealing with this now (HS aged). It's frustrating but I do believe he'll come through.

[Guest]

Yup, disengage. Give him zeros in his transcript. Don't hand hold, don't email his teachers, let him fail now when it matter less than, say, being fired. You can't make him care and time and experience will do for him what you lovingly tried to save him from first. And he will see this and appreciate you for it then. But right now he doesn't get it, and that's okay. I think you're healthier and more sane just being mom than mom/teacher for him.

 

I cannot imagine how difficult this is for you! As "that smart kid" with the mood/behavioral issues, and a homeschooling mom now, I think your current plan of action is the best you can give him while keeping your own oxygen mask on.

[Bluegoat]

Thanks. In the scheme of things, he's not doing drugs, he's not partying or having sex. But watching such a smart kid do so badly just hurts, you know? 

 

Today we got lab supplies in the mail, a big box with a brand new microscope and slide kit. He didn't care one bit. How is he even my kid???   Nope. If it isn't computer based he doesn't care. 

 

Have you thought about whether this might be a more significant part of the problem than just being what he happens to be most interested in?  There is a lot of good evidence that computers, particularly online aspects, can act very much like addictions.  If you tried thinking about it that way, and it gave some greater insights into his behavior, that might indicate a way forward.  Teens with ADHD are considered to be high risk for internet addiction.

[Catwoman]

It still breaks my heart, 2+ years after he graduated. I am cleaning out old stuff, and yesterday I cleaned out the College Application Notebook. So many hopes that he would just take one gap year.

 

I find old papers where he was writing fabulous essays on topics of great depth and now I just see his brain rotting.

 

I find little notes he wrote to me, and I see his heart so ... frostbitten now. He's so distant. He's warmer than he was...but

 

 

I see soft heart and deep intelligence and it's just so deeply buried right now. I've been handling things OK for about a year, but this job...I think it is too much for me still, and I think I shall put the boxes back in the garage and wait a couple more years.

 

But I wish I had done what you are doing much sooner than I did it. Hang in there.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm sure you did the best you could at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20, so please don't beat yourself up. :(

[ktgrok]

Have you thought about whether this might be a more significant part of the problem than just being what he happens to be most interested in?  There is a lot of good evidence that computers, particularly online aspects, can act very much like addictions.  If you tried thinking about it that way, and it gave some greater insights into his behavior, that might indicate a way forward.  Teens with ADHD are considered to be high risk for internet addiction.

 

Oh, that's part of it. But he does turn it off when he wants to. I've tried just unplugging him, but eventually I have to give it back. He has to learn to regulate himself. We've talked about using various software to help him regulate himself, such as freetime, or antisocial. I use those apps myself ot help me stay focuse on my own work, and he refuses to try them. 

[Catherine]

I am very sympathetic; I have been there. I coped by having him take more classes taught by other people.  My ADD\oppositional child wasn't an arguer, he just did what he wanted with zero regard for house rules, other people' feelings, etc.  Farming out as much as possible helped me cope and gave me time for my other kids. I am SO glad those days are well behind me.  Your son may "get it:.  Mine is a senior in college and though he hasn't given much thought to what's next, I am disengaged enough to feel almost "zen" about it!  Your future, not my problem!  

 

Can I just add that you may someday be rewarded with a younger child who is a joy when it comes to these things?  My youngest just started high school and I cannot even describe the difference. He is engaged, he cares about other students, his teachers, he in involved in the life of the school and wants to be there when he isn't.  He actually redid an assignment, without being asked, because he wanted it to be better! OMG!!!  So...this may be your future.  And it most definitely is not your fault that your son is the way he is.  You did your best, I believe that.  (((hugs)))

[ktgrok]

LOL, yes, my daughter is a total people pleaser, LOVES to learn, and shows pride in her work. She's only in kindy but it's such a pleasure to teach her! She even begs for documentaries at bedtime, lol! 

[Jenny in Florida]

So, to update, he currently has 5 assignments overdue, 2 of which are two days past due, and he is claiming he's too sick today to have schoolwork today. He did attend his online Latin class, but that's it. 

 

He told me he doesn't need a good GPA to get into the school he's most likley planning on, so I pulled up the average GPA and assured him he is wrong. 

 

We are fighting less, because of the new "you do it or you don't, I don't care, I just mark off the grades" stance. So that's worth something. But it's breaking my heart a bit to see him just blow everything off. 

 

That was exactly what I worried about whenever we talked about either putting my son in school or going to full-time outsourcing. Our solution was to tie things he cared about doing to specific grade and GPA requirements, which I checked on and enforced daily. In his case, that was certain outside activities, specifically dance and choir. We required him to maintain an overall GPA of at least 3.0 and to have no grade in any course lower than a B. (In other words, 3.0 wasn't good enough if it meant an equal number of A's and C's.)

 

I logged onto my FLVS parent account every day, sometimes more than once, and I kept equally close tabs on his quiz and test scores on ALEKS. Unless his grades met our requirements before he was scheduled to leave the house on a given day for any activity, he wasn't allowed to go.(We agreed upon a small number of exceptions right up front for things like dress and tech rehearsals and performances, basically things for which he was part of a team that would suffer if he weren't there.) We also said that, if he finished a school week (defined as 4:00 p.m. on Friday afternoon) below his GPA requirement, he'd be grounded for the weekend.

 

The ultimate motivator was that, if it turned out this new structure wasn't working (meaning that his grades at the end of the semester weren't acceptable or that the family situation in any way worsened), we'd pull the plug. He'd be enrolled in public school. He was desperate to avoid that option, because he understood that it would mean seriously curtailing the assorted outside activities due to decreased flexibility in scheduling and increased homework load. We also made it clear that we would be resistant to continuing to fund things like his competitive dance (including extra classes and rehearsals, extra costumes, weekends away from home, etc.) under those circumstances.

 

I hated it, because it made me feel like my role in his academic life had been reduced to policing his behavior and enforcing him doing and turning in assignments I didn't even necessarily think were especially worthwhile.

 

I won't deny that I cried some now and then. The first time he missed a dance class because his grade in one class fell below the cut-off was awful. The first time he missed a social activity he had been very much looking forward to because he was grounded for the weekend was even worse.

 

However, in the long run, things smoothed out. It took only about four of those incidents to make the point that we weren't backing off. He got his act in gear and ended up doing really well, both academically and otherwise.

 

I have to say that I can't imagine most teenage boys are thinking far enough ahead to care much whether they get a bad grade today. They're not necessarily connecting that one grade to the big picture. I think mine, at least, would have welcomed the "I'm just going to record your grade and not otherwise engage" as a get-out-of-jail free card without the structure of specific requirements and consequences. 

[Catwoman]

I have to say that I can't imagine most teenage boys are thinking far enough ahead to care much whether they get a bad grade today. They're not necessarily connecting that one grade to the big picture. I think mine, at least, would have welcomed the "I'm just going to record your grade and not otherwise engage" as a get-out-of-jail free card without the structure of specific requirements and consequences.

:iagree:

 

That is exactly what I was thinking, as well. I'm also not sure that deducting points from a kid's grade for lateness would have much of an impact, either. If a kid doesn't place a strong value on getting good grades, I don't think he will be motivated by the threat of getting a B or a C instead of an A. He might very well decide that he doesn't care if he gets low grades if spending less time on schoolwork gives him more time to have fun doing other things.

[8circles]

:iagree:

 

That is exactly what I was thinking, as well. I'm also not sure that deducting points from a kid's grade for lateness would have much of an impact, either. If a kid doesn't place a strong value on getting good grades, I don't think he will be motivated by the threat of getting a B or a C instead of an A. He might very well decide that he doesn't care if he gets low grades if spending less time on schoolwork gives him more time to have fun doing other things.

And, when you deduct for being late, it quickly becomes not worth the effort anymore.

[jelbe5]

Thanks. In the scheme of things, he's not doing drugs, he's not partying or having sex. But watching such a smart kid do so badly just hurts, you know?

 

Today we got lab supplies in the mail, a big box with a brand new microscope and slide kit. He didn't care one bit. How is he even my kid??? Nope. If it isn't computer based he doesn't care.

I am so sorry. I want to gently share this realization which came to me regarding my oldest daughter. I had to let go of the dream I had of how I wanted our homeschool to be/look like and what type of student I wanted my dd to be. It was hard and sad for me but things improved when I let that go. I also found that, for my dd, the "school of hard knocks" is a very good teacher. Hugs.

[Tsuga]

And, when you deduct for being late, it quickly becomes not worth the effort anymore.

 

But nothing else works, and he's using her effort to suck all of her time away from other kids--kids that actually want to learn.

 

If he was her only child and she was of means, she might be able to take the advice of basically--do it for him, make him do it, live your life for this kid. But he's not and she's not. What happens when he's 18? Are they going to pay college tuition for this level of effort!?!? I wouldn't. That's so much money. And is that what they're working for? Her husband does have a decent salary, so is he doing this work for the exquisite pleasure of watching his son treat his wife like crap from the basement? I don't think so!

 

Honestly, it sounds like he's had a lot of choices and simply doesn't value the education that's being offered him.

 

He's not the only teen in that situation but it's not like you can change their attitude. I firmly believe, because I've seen it enough, that some kids just need reality to kick them in the pants. They will NOT learn that an "A" is good until they see the whole chain of events, firsthand, hungry at the grocery store, debit card denied, crying in the parking lot (hello, that was me) what they are working for.

 

I KNOW that some kids learn by telling, by showing, by explaining. I KNOW. But some just do not.

 

Still, I think docking for late work is too arbitrary. Set a time to grade the assignment. If it's not done, say "Sorry, the grading period has ended. You have an F. If you don't like the system find another one. I'm going to work with your sister now."

 

Yes, I'm a hard-ass. Because I was a hard kid and I know how I thought and I know how my kids think. There is a story behind "give them an inch and they'll take a mile". That is not just a cynical saying. Some ancestor of my daughter was somewhere in that story...

[Guest]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I'm sure you did the best you could at the time. Hindsight is always 20/20, so please don't beat yourself up. :(

 

Oh, I don't beat myself up much anymore.  It was just sort of a sad day, going through the papers.  It brought forward both the dreams and the disaster.  I just have to put this stuff away for awhile.  

 

My son is finding his way, thanks to a wonderful man who has come alongside and has taken him into an internship which will lead to a paying job unless my son screws up.  

 

I've learned a lot...  

1.  Listen more than you talk.  Ask more than you tell.

2.  Worry a lot less about what people will think of you if your kid does XYZ and more about how to help your kid find his path.

3.  Stop yelling.

4.  Be on your kid's side.  The world is a hard place...give your kid a soft place to land when the world beats him up; don't join in the beating.  (Metaphorical, as I hope you would assume...)

 

And...

 

It's going to be OK.  :0)

[Acadie]

It does sound like your public school is not an option, with the environmental health issues. Is there a private school anywhere near you that specializes in kids with ADHD and high functioning ASD? There's one near us that's been a life- and family-saver for a couple friends who were just at the end of their ropes, and had not been able to find a good fit for their children up to that point. Yes, it's expensive. One friend told me the other day that every time she writes a tuition check she breathes a sigh of relief and thinks it's worth every penny. The other friend switched jobs to afford the tuition and feels like it was well worth it.

 

May not be possible or practical, but I figured I'd throw out another option (and I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this came up before!).

 

Amy

[MomatHWTK]

Oh, I don't beat myself up much anymore.  It was just sort of a sad day, going through the papers.  It brought forward both the dreams and the disaster.  I just have to put this stuff away for awhile.  

 

My son is finding his way, thanks to a wonderful man who has come alongside and has taken him into an internship which will lead to a paying job unless my son screws up.  

 

I've learned a lot...  

1.  Listen more than you talk.  Ask more than you tell.

2.  Worry a lot less about what people will think of you if your kid does XYZ and more about how to help your kid find his path.

3.  Stop yelling.

4.  Be on your kid's side.  The world is a hard place...give your kid a soft place to land when the world beats him up; don't join in the beating.  (Metaphorical, as I hope you would assume...)

 

And...

 

It's going to be OK.  :0)

:iagree:

[ktgrok]

:iagree:

 

That is exactly what I was thinking, as well. I'm also not sure that deducting points from a kid's grade for lateness would have much of an impact, either. If a kid doesn't place a strong value on getting good grades, I don't think he will be motivated by the threat of getting a B or a C instead of an A. He might very well decide that he doesn't care if he gets low grades if spending less time on schoolwork gives him more time to have fun doing other things.

 

The thing is, when I cut outside activities as a consequence, he just sleeps and shuts down. It does not motivate him. He doesn't learn from it, he doesn't try harder, he just blames me for his sucky life and shuts down totally and/or tries to "get back at me". He focuses on the worngs done to him, not his own actions. This may be because of his specific issues. Until he was about 12 years old he had NO concept of cause and effect. NONE. He could stand on a stool, fall, and not relate that to standing on the stool. If he got upset over something and you asked him what happened he would get the timeline wrong, relating things totally out of order. If he got yelled at for slamming his door, he'd be positive he slammed the door because you yelled at him. 

 

Now, hes a LOT better now, but still, if there isemotion and angst and punishment he just focuses on that, not on his own part in things. So punishment just made him LESS motivated. And left us fighting constantly, which was not healthy for my family. It's not fair to the kids. If he fails, he fails. But my house won't be full of yelling and screaming. 

[ktgrok]

And, when you deduct for being late, it quickly becomes not worth the effort anymore.

 

See, the other options don't work. If I just let him turn it in for full credit he will keep putting it off and putting it off, and we end up with it never getting done. 

 

If I just say  listen, 0 points if it is late he won't turn it in on time, he'll just not do it at all. 

 

Hoping this is the in between. 

[ktgrok]

 

 

I KNOW that some kids learn by telling, by showing, by explaining. I KNOW. But some just do not.

 

S There is a story behind "give them an inch and they'll take a mile". That is not just a cynical saying. Some ancestor of my daughter was somewhere in that story...

 

Yes, he doesn't learn, and never has, by me just explaining. He has to feel the consequence. Often many many times. Sometimes even that isn't enough. 

 

 

And yes, I actually paraphrased that recently. "Give him and inch and he'll take a mile...of rope to hang himself." In other words, yes, he'll abuse anything not specific enough and use it to end up making things worse for himself. 

 

I'm sticking with the points off in the hope that makes him actually do it, rather than get zeros and not learn anything, as him learning is still a goal of mine. 

[ktgrok]

It does sound like your public school is not an option, with the environmental health issues. Is there a private school anywhere near you that specializes in kids with ADHD and high functioning ASD? There's one near us that's been a life- and family-saver for a couple friends who were just at the end of their ropes, and had not been able to find a good fit for their children up to that point. Yes, it's expensive. One friend told me the other day that every time she writes a tuition check she breathes a sigh of relief and thinks it's worth every penny. The other friend switched jobs to afford the tuition and feels like it was well worth it.

 

May not be possible or practical, but I figured I'd throw out another option (and I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this came up before!).

 

Amy

 

Nope, none like that. There is a catholic school, which would cost about $4 more than the state scholarship funds, that we could probably swing if we had to, but he doesn't want to go to. And paying that much to have him continue to fail would suck. Or a strange alternative school that is project based that I don't get a good vibe from. Graduating class was a total of one student last year. 

[texasmama]

It sounds like you are doing the best you have with the kid you have.  I suspect outsourcing as much as possible in the future will help a lot.  And he sounds like the type of kid who has to learn by experiencing.  

[*lifeoftheparty*]

We (finally) just got our DS11 diagnosed with ADHD, so I,ve been reading a lot about it... right now I'm reading the book "Buzz: A Year of Paying Attention."

 

Your son sounds so much like "Buzz," the authors son. Isn't there ANY way you could get some meds onto him? Get the capsules that you can open and sprinkle on food? Or the liquid stuff? Will he wear the Daytrana patch?

 

We keep going back and forth on meds because DS is responding well to behavior modification, but he also didn't have that many problems to begin with... but, in the end, I think we are still going to get hom some meds to help with focus on school work, and impulse control.

 

It sounds like so many of your sons issues could be helped/solved by finding the right medication and some kind of therapy.

 

Isn't there ANY way you can get him to work with you on that?

 

I'm sorry- I know how hard all this stuff is...

[ktgrok]

We (finally) just got our DS11 diagnosed with ADHD, so I,ve been reading a lot about it... right now I'm reading the book "Buzz: A Year of Paying Attention."

 

Your son sounds so much like "Buzz," the authors son. Isn't there ANY way you could get some meds onto him? Get the capsules that you can open and sprinkle on food? Or the liquid stuff? Will he wear the Daytrana patch?

 

We keep going back and forth on meds because DS is responding well to behavior modification, but he also didn't have that many problems to begin with... but, in the end, I think we are still going to get hom some meds to help with focus on school work, and impulse control.

 

It sounds like so many of your sons issues could be helped/solved by finding the right medication and some kind of therapy.

 

Isn't there ANY way you can get him to work with you on that?

 

I'm sorry- I know how hard all this stuff is...

 

As of now, no. Maybe if he fails some classes he will change his mind. I won't sneak the medication into him, and other than that, there is no way. 

[8circles]

Most importantly, I need to apologize for sounding so short.  I had just got back from a very frustrating meeting & I was in a bitchy mood.  It was completely unrelated to you.  I'm sorry.

See, the other options don't work. If I just let him turn it in for full credit he will keep putting it off and putting it off, and we end up with it never getting done. 

 

If I just say  listen, 0 points if it is late he won't turn it in on time, he'll just not do it at all. 

 

Hoping this is the in between. 

 

I think you're doing a really great job with a very difficult situation.  I just know that for many kids, taking away 10% is going to feel like the same as 0 anyway.  If it ends-up working, that's great.  It certainly won't hurt to try.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[ktgrok]

Most importantly, I need to apologize for sounding so short.  I had just got back from a very frustrating meeting & I was in a bitchy mood.  It was completely unrelated to you.  I'm sorry.

 

I think you're doing a really great job with a very difficult situation.  I just know that for many kids, taking away 10% is going to feel like the same as 0 anyway.  If it ends-up working, that's great.  It certainly won't hurt to try.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

No problem!!!!!  Hugs, sorry your mood was bad, and no offense taken. Honestly, there isn't a good solution here. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Oh, I don't beat myself up much anymore.  It was just sort of a sad day, going through the papers.  It brought forward both the dreams and the disaster.  I just have to put this stuff away for awhile.  

 

My son is finding his way, thanks to a wonderful man who has come alongside and has taken him into an internship which will lead to a paying job unless my son screws up.  

 

I've learned a lot...  

1.  Listen more than you talk.  Ask more than you tell.

2.  Worry a lot less about what people will think of you if your kid does XYZ and more about how to help your kid find his path.

3.  Stop yelling.

4.  Be on your kid's side.  The world is a hard place...give your kid a soft place to land when the world beats him up; don't join in the beating.  (Metaphorical, as I hope you would assume...)

 

And...

 

It's going to be OK.  :0)

These tips are what have helped me in my relationship with my son.  It started with me sitting down with ds and talking to him about his ADD and ASD.  There was a lot of fear and anxiety behind the anger and the shutting down. These talks were cumulative and non-confrontive.  I found that ds needed to know what was getting in the way of him being "normal" (his words) and to know that there are ways to deal with some of the issues that come up because of these ways of seeing the world.  He also needed to know that there are benefits to seeing the world like this.  Despite a genius label, my son saw himself as only a failure.  What I was trying to get at is that none of the labels matter - he is a person with unique strengths and weaknesses who has something to contribute to the world and our family.  

 

The computer was his coping device - a place where he could retreat.  It is something he can control in a way that he can't control the real world.  And it is a place where he can put his feelings on hold for awhile.  It's a place where he can get his racing mind to focus just on the game.  And in a way, that isn't bad.  It's certainly better for him to calm down in front of the computer instead of punching holes in the wall  (and yes we've been there).  He will now articulate "I'm really upset right now.  I need to sit down with my computer and calm down" and I'm ok with that.  As he's understood this need, it has actually become less of a crutch.  

 

Having thoughts that are chaotic and can't focus on what the next thing is, let alone focus enough to do it is difficult.  Feeling overwhelmed with what needs to be done is difficult.  Feeling sensory overloaded is difficult.  I try to approach these things from a position of empathy.  I probably do have ADD so I have some natural empathy there and can help him to come up with strategies.  Not all at once but gradually.  I am not ASD but I can relate to some of the anxiety at being overloaded and empathize as much as I can.  

 

I figure that learning how to cope with stuff like this is so much more important than building a transcript.  I have gone backwards some in the whole scaffolding process, giving him more hand holding than I had before because he didn't have the capacity to handle the freedom.  I don't care any more that "normal 18 year olds don't need their mother to do xyz".  So?  He's not a normal 18 year old.  And he needs this.  And he's progressing.  

 

But while I'm doing a lot of scaffolding, I'm also letting him drive the process.  "What do you want to put on your to-do list today?"  "How do you think you should approach this?"  The answers aren't always what I want them to be but his approaches actually do tend to work better for him.  He knows that he doesn't learn subjects the way someone else does.  He can't do the step-by-step mark things off the learning list that others do.  He has to wrestle with a subject, looking at it from all angles before filling in the details.  (Obviously this part is going to be different for different people.)  

It also helped us for ds to get a job.  He works 20 hours a week at our local grocery store.  He's been forced to use his social and executive function skills.  I have not helped in this process but have allowed him to do it all unless he specifically needs me to sign something or to give him advice.  I had a neuro-psych tell me that many young people will blossom in their school work (after an initial break in time) after they've started working and I've found it to be true for us.  

[redsquirrel]

And I know he won't go to therapy, but maybe you need one for you. This is a VERY difficult situation to be in and maybe you and your husband could use a place to safely vent and learn some ways to relieve the pressure.  My friend also has a sibling group for her other kids. It's been a tremendously positive thing for her other kids, to have a safe and non-judgemental place to talk about living with their brother. They have learned a lot of great skills.
 

[ktgrok]

I should explain that he doesn't want me to help him plan things, be there to help him at all really. He wants to do it on his own. And he doesn't think he's a failure, he thinks he's too smart to bother with school. 

[Tsuga]

Have you considered asking him to pay rent at 18? To have him try to get a job? Just to kind of move this away from being about you... If for no other reason than to save your sanity?

[ktgrok]

Have you considered asking him to pay rent at 18? To have him try to get a job? Just to kind of move this away from being about you... If for no other reason than to save your sanity?

 

Oh, definitely, but that's 2 years away. 

[ktgrok]

Just whining here, so I don't go insane. Feel free to ignore,it's nothing new. 

 

He still has done zero schoolwork today, or yesterday. Mind you, I get that he is sick, but if he is well enough to yell and laugh and play games online it seems he would be well enough to curl up in bed with some tea and a book and get some reading done, or at least watch the history documentary he was assigned days ago. He bragged to methat the game he's playing is "the chess" of that type of game, requiring great strategy. But he's too sick to watch a documentary. Right. 

 

I talked to his father, who was no help. 

 

My dh is his stepfather and not sure what to do, if anything, so he's staying out of it. 

 

I did tell him that we are going to be buying him his laptop soon, but it seems pointless if he's not actually doing any schoolwork, so if he has nothing done I don't see it happening. We got the bonus money to buy it, just waiting on the preapproval from the scholarship he has before purchasing. That could come through today even, so he could be getting a brand new macbook this weekend, but it won't happen if he's just refusing to do school. I explained that to him, telling him that DH wasn't going to be keen on delivering a new computer if he was behind in school, that I wasn't trying to punish him, I was just giving him the information. He aknowledged that and then went back to avoiding schoolwork. 

 

I'm so very very very over it. I either cut off all gaming and internet and deal with world war 3, or I let him regulate himself and he does nothing. Neither is an acceptable option. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I'm just throwing this out there as an idea.  Have you looked at Job Corps?  The income requirement is not hard and fast, as I know people with great income who have a son in there.  They live there, it seems, and counseling is provided and such.  My understanding is that they can get education and job training, and counseling from people who are trained to work with kids who can be challenging.  Just a thought as you sound a bit at the end of your rope, and that's how my friends were.  It's a great program.

[EmseB]

Just whining here, so I don't go insane. Feel free to ignore,it's nothing new. 

 

He still has done zero schoolwork today, or yesterday. Mind you, I get that he is sick, but if he is well enough to yell and laugh and play games online it seems he would be well enough to curl up in bed with some tea and a book and get some reading done, or at least watch the history documentary he was assigned days ago. He bragged to methat the game he's playing is "the chess" of that type of game, requiring great strategy. But he's too sick to watch a documentary. Right. 

 

I talked to his father, who was no help. 

 

My dh is his stepfather and not sure what to do, if anything, so he's staying out of it. 

 

I did tell him that we are going to be buying him his laptop soon, but it seems pointless if he's not actually doing any schoolwork, so if he has nothing done I don't see it happening. We got the bonus money to buy it, just waiting on the preapproval from the scholarship he has before purchasing. That could come through today even, so he could be getting a brand new macbook this weekend, but it won't happen if he's just refusing to do school. I explained that to him, telling him that DH wasn't going to be keen on delivering a new computer if he was behind in school, that I wasn't trying to punish him, I was just giving him the information. He aknowledged that and then went back to avoiding schoolwork. 

 

I'm so very very very over it. I either cut off all gaming and internet and deal with world war 3, or I let him regulate himself and he does nothing. Neither is an acceptable option. 

 

Reading all of your posts, I feel like "he does nothing" is an acceptable option at this point.  He said he thinks you're going to bail him out.  That is the card he's playing right now.

[Guest]

Bingo.

[ktgrok]

Reading all of your posts, I feel like "he does nothing" is an acceptable option at this point.  He said he thinks you're going to bail him out.  That is the card he's playing right now.

 

You are right. It's a long haul. I'm just resentful. And emotional. And he's totally not. Blergh

[flyingiguana]

As more and more of my friends have kids getting into this age group, I'm seeing that there are a lot of kids doing this.  Boys and girls.  "Diagnosed on the spectrum" and not.  It's just a thing that happens and the parents can't do much about it.  You don't even see it coming most of the time.

 

The one thing they all have in common is that their parents care and hate to see them fail.  (Not that that caused it, but that's all the parents I know)  But there isn't much that can be done unless the kid actually steps up to do it.

 

I know a number of seniors who are now in "credit recovery programs".  That's not a real thing.  Just what the parents around here are calling it.  The kids flaked out through most of high school, didn't pass a number of classes, and are now seeing that they need more on their transcript to graduate, let alone get into college.  A lot of them will pull it together in time and get into an ok 4 yr college.  Others will have to go to cc for a bit.  Some have just decided it's their failure and they intend to own it.

 

You've done what you can.  You need your life back.  Your other kids need you back.

 

If he doesn't want to go back to ps, you might ask him if he's intending to drop out of school.  Because that's effectively what he's doing.  It would be easier to see if he wasn't avoiding ps.  If you name it, it might make him care.  Or not.

 

I'd be inclined to just enroll him in ps and let him deal with the consequences of truancy if he decides not to go.  Depending on the laws in your state, he might not be truant if he's already 16, but if he is still required to be in an educational situation of some sort, you might point out that you enrolled him because for legal reasons you couldn't keep him at home and say he was being homeschooled if he, in fact, was not.  

 

The other option you mentioned was maybe sending him to live with his dad.  I'd consider that.  

 

Alternatively, if he wants to go to college, tell him to just apply now, since he seems to be done with high school.  You can provide a transcript for what he HAS done.  He'll quickly find out what sort of college that will get him into.  It might be better than you might think.  Or maybe it will tell him what more he needs to do for that dream.

[catz]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I personally think do nothing is fine.  If he can't work with you as a team, I would disengage too. I do think my kid would be doing nothing in a classroom though.  At least he couldn't game all day long and would be out of your hair part of the day.  I do think that is something my freshman would do if given the opportunity.  We have tight internet controls here.  My son has got a new laptop on order for his birthday and that one is going to be loaded up with the same controls. 

 

That might be something to consider if you do get the new laptop is setting it up with good controls?  We set our kids laptops with an educational and a recreational account.  The stuff that can run or be seen on the internet on the educational account is very limited.  I own passwords to all accounts and type them in. 

 

Anyway, parental burnout is a good reason to make some sort of change that at least will work for you.  Our homeschool approach is totally different than it was a year ago.  And I think if it weren't we'd be done by now!

[flyingiguana]

 

 

I did tell him that we are going to be buying him his laptop soon, but it seems pointless if he's not actually doing any schoolwork, so if he has nothing done I don't see it happening. We got the bonus money to buy it, just waiting on the preapproval from the scholarship he has before purchasing. That could come through today even, so he could be getting a brand new macbook this weekend, but it won't happen if he's just refusing to do school. I explained that to him, telling him that DH wasn't going to be keen on delivering a new computer if he was behind in school, that I wasn't trying to punish him, I was just giving him the information. He aknowledged that and then went back to avoiding schoolwork. 

 

 

Yeah, he does nothing, you do nothing.  Meaning you don't bother to buy the laptop.

 

There are consequences.

[catz]

 

You've done what you can.  You need your life back.  Your other kids need you back.

 

If he doesn't want to go back to ps, you might ask him if he's intending to drop out of school.  Because that's effectively what he's doing.  It would be easier to see if he wasn't avoiding ps.  If you name it, it might make him care.  Or not.

 

I'd be inclined to just enroll him in ps and let him deal with the consequences of truancy if he decides not to go.  Depending on the laws in your state, he might not be truant if he's already 16, but if he is still required to be in an educational situation of some sort, you might point out that you enrolled him because for legal reasons you couldn't keep him at home and say he was being homeschooled if he, in fact, was not.  

 

The other option you mentioned was maybe sending him to live with his dad.  I'd consider that.  

 

Alternatively, if he wants to go to college, tell him to just apply now, since he seems to be done with high school.  You can provide a transcript for what he HAS done.  He'll quickly find out what sort of college that will get him into.  It might be better than you might think.  Or maybe it will tell him what more he needs to do for that dream.

 

:iagree:  I know you said your mosts local PS won't work.  How about open enrolling to another district?  Charter schools?  Online charters?  Can he just jump to CC?  I think I'd be having a serious sit down adult conversation about where to go from here.  I'd personally be concerned about the legal implications of allowing him to do nothing at home all day.  I have told my 9th grader legally he needs to do high school.

 

[flyingiguana]

It also sounds like he needs a lot of sleep.

 

That may just be a phase, if you're lucky.  Has he finished growing?  That can really burn kids out and they don't even know it.

 

Or it could be a sign of depression.  So it might be something to discuss with any health care professionals that are responsible for him.

[Guest]

Soooo much is bringing back the 16-17 years with my son.  So much of the same attitudes.  I won't even bore you with allllll that so many people did to help my son succeed.  But he wouldn't step up to the plate.  He's doing better now, as I have mentioned.  One of the frustrating things about this time is that you as the parent are still legally responsible for so many things that you have NO control over.  It drove me nuts as I am a hyper-responsible person.  The day my son turned 18, I seriously felt a big load slide off my back.

 

One thing that I have learned about my son is that he *hates* doing repetitive mindless work.  The thing that drove him crazy at school was (for example) in math, where he had shown he knew how to do the problems, done it 20 times on a long homework assignment, and the next day....he got 20 more problems that were of exactly the same concept.  He just refused to do it.  He saw it as busywork and a waste of his time.  He got high As on all the tests, but wouldn't do the homework, so guess who failed pre-calc not once but twice?  It was the zeroes in homework that did it. 

 

WELL I was furious because we paid big bucks for him to attend a very good school and he just threw it away.  So I informed him that he was going to take pre-calc at a local "pay for tutoring/class/diploma/transcript" kind of place--Brightmont was the one we used--and he was going to pay for it.  They made him start over from day 1, BUT they let him progress at his own pace, and so when he showed mastery, he moved on.  He finished in 6 or 8 weeks, 2 meetings a week, got a 98 on the final and a 97 in the class.  The delivery mechanism made sense to him.  

 

There are places in the world where this attitude is going to be a boon, and places where it is going to be a bane.  But I hope he will find the boon place and it will be a big part of his success.  I have had jobs where 85% of the work was "git 'er done" and don't repeat, and so I know the jobs are out there.  But it's not a good fit for high school and even to some extent college, but less so there.  They mostly want to know that you know something there.  

[Scarlett]

This thread is very painful for me to read.

 

I think all of you are great moms doing the best you can with hardheaded teens. I have one too. He isn't on the spectrum but yeah some of the attitudes are the same.

 

My son is very Bright. I have no doubt if he would apply himself and actually CARE he would be top of his class.

 

He is my only child and I spend a lot of effort on him. Policing his school assignments mostly. But he is a good kid in so many ways that I am trying to let his education be his to own.

 

It does work to withhold computer time and time with friends until his work is done.

 

It is exhausting though.

[Matryoshka]

If he doesn't want to go back to ps, you might ask him if he's intending to drop out of school.  Because that's effectively what he's doing.  It would be easier to see if he wasn't avoiding ps.  If you name it, it might make him care.  Or not.

 

 

I forget, is he 16 yet?  If he's this intransigent, I might consider calling his bluff like that.  He is effectively dropping out.  But if he chooses to drop out he should have to:

 

- Take the GED or HiSET (or whatever that new one is called)

- Get a job

 

Then he can be done with school, but he can't just sit around and play all day.  (and you'll have him out of the house).

 

I have a acquaintance whose dd did this, but she was in ps.  She just stopped going.  The school actually just de-enrolled her because she hadn't come often enough.  Acquaintance is not a homeschooler, and didn't know about DE - she just had dd take the HiSET, which she passed no problem.  She enrolled her for CC, but unfortunately her ex-dh (with whom kids chose to live) decided to be 'fun dad' and told her she didn't have to do that, so she dropped them. :glare:   Does help to have the adults on the same page...  But I'm assuming he won't be happy having his now 18yo bumming off of him forever, so she'll have to at least get a job...

 

If he isn't 16 yet, but he gets there and things haven't improved, that could still be an option.  He'd have a diploma (yeah, it's a GED, but that's what dropouts get, at best) and it might be better to work for a year or two and experience what the world is like when you don't have much education, and he might be ready for college later with a better attitude than if he went as a dual-enrolled student right now...