wondering if I can do this anymore

[Guest]

I don't know if your son has adhd or not but I know that my son did the same. It was writing that was so hard for him. I finally threw in the towel. Done. Learn it your own self. He struggled his way through college classes he had to take and has turned into a pretty good writer. He is in a masters program now and has to pick his thesis topic. He was telling me about it, and I was laughing because he 15 yr old self was so full of "I will never have to write anything." And presenting papers at conferences...I am enjoying this!

Oh, you give me such hope. It's writing for my DS15, too. He is at a B&M school. I think at present he believes he will "just" join the military and play with guns and computers all day.

[ondreeuh]

My husband was a really late bloomer. He's smart as a whip, which got him through most things, but because he has an excellent memory he was able to master material without doing "work," and that's not how you get grades in high school. Even though his mother was a teacher, he was never formally diagnosed with dysgraphia although it's clear he had/has it. His mom had him evaluated by a tutor who noted it his junior year. He wasn't able to take notes, didn't study because he didn't need to, and really struggled with writing. His parents were understandably worried about his future. He did get into college because of excellent SAT scores, but still struggled. After 4 years he took a break from school and joined the National Guard while working. He also benefited from a mentor who basically apprenticed him for several years.

 

Fast-forward 7 years - he decided to finish up his undergrad degree and got all As. He then got into an excellent MAT program and earned a 4.0 for his master's work. He has moved quickly up the ranks and has received many accolades through the military. He is very well respected and appreciated for his hard work.

 

I asked him last night whether he truly remediated himself or if he finally got to the point that he wasn't expected to do busywork anymore. He said both. The Army cured him of his busywork avoidance (you don't really have a choice, obviously) and he is able to write great essays. He still doesn't study, and his papers are close to a first draft, but he bangs out his work and turns it in on time. He is super efficient at his job because he figures out what people actually expect and does exactly that.

 

My 8th grader has dysgraphia, and I expect him to be a late bloomer as well. Seeing how well his father turned out gives me a lot of hope. The military isn't an option for him, but I do hope he can do an apprenticeship and learn a trade from a patient mentor.

 

I also have a DD 20 who is a late bloomer in other ways, and I am not rushing her. There are multiple paths to a successful life.

[Corraleno]

One problem with getting your son to accept meds is that he is already self-medicating — with gaming. It's no coincidence that gaming can be a serious problem with ADD kids, since ADD symptoms are often a manifestation of a dopamine processing deficit, and gaming releases dopamine. Studies have shown that a high percentage of people who become addicted to gaming have the same genetic mutation (which affects dopamine processing) that has been linked to other addictions, including drugs, alcohol, gambling, and nicotine.

 

Hours of gaming may make him feel better, but it also uses up the dopamine he has, so there's nothing left over for focusing on school work and other tasks. You've said that when you take away the gaming, he just sleeps and refuses to do anything — that's not just a way of "punishing" you, it's because you've basically taken away his "meds."

 

If I were in your shoes (and I was in a similar situation with DS when he was much younger) I would (1) seriously limit the amount of time he's allowed to spend on gaming, and (2) make it a condition of gaming that he get on meds and get into therapy to work on coping skills. If he were self-medicating with weed or alcohol or even cigarettes, you would never say "well, I can't take it away because it will make him angry and he'll go into withdrawal and just sleep." He needs to learn how to handle his medical needs in a healthy and legal way, or he may end up being one of the many adults who self-medicate for ADD in self-destructive ways.

 

As for homeschooling, I would back off completely. You can't force him do the work anyway, and as long as he feels you pushing him he's likely to push back. I would lay out a set of options for him, maybe even make up a flow chart so he can clearly see where each option leads, and then leave it entirely up to him which direction he goes:

Option 1 would be doing nothing, in which case he is effectively a high school drop out. I would make it absolutely clear that you will NOT graduate him or give him a diploma if he drops out. If he drops out he would need a full time job and to pay rent. He should know that one consequence of this choice is that, in the future, every time he fills out a job application he will check the "no HS diploma" box, which will severely limit his career choices. He can always take the GED, but that does carry a stigma and marks him as a high school drop out.

Option 2 would be getting a homeschool diploma and applying to the 4 yr college he's interested in. Show him the courses they require for admission, the minimum SAT scores and GPA, and tell him if he chooses that option you can show him how to meet those requirements and you'll help if asked, but he needs to take ownership. I would NOT give him the option of homeschooled courses graded by you, until he has demonstrated his commitment by doing the work in another way. He could self-study for CLEPs or other exams, do Coursera or EdX courses with certificates, or any other options you can think of that involve objective outside assessment. Benefits of credit-by-exam options include being able to do the work on his own schedule, being able to skip all the busy work if he knows the material, and providing a totally objective assessment that has nothing to do with you.

 

Option 3 could be going the CC transfer route. I would show him the required courses for an AA transfer degree and present a set of options for meeting those. If he's interested in this, I would have him go ahead and take the Compass test (or whatever they use for placement) to see where he's at and what, if anything, he needs to do to get up to speed. For example, if he needs more math to test into College Algebra rather than remedial math classes, show him various ways he could get there (Khan Academy, Edx HS courses, self-study from a textbook, online math classes, etc.). Once he's finished a year's worth of CC courses, you can give him a HS diploma retroactively (NARHS will also issue an accredited HS diploma for completion of 1 yr of college classes, for a few hundred dollars).

 

List any other options that you think might work for him, that you would also be OK with (PS, private school, online school, whatever), along with what those would entail in terms of coursework, schedule, etc.  And then step back and just be his mom for a while.

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

[ktgrok]

Well, small update :)

 

I was gone all day, first to church and then to my parents' house over an hour away. Left the house at 9:30 and teen was still asleep. Got home after 5pm. Teen stayed home because he is sick (he really is sick, but not so sick he CAN'T do work, but yes, sick enough to stay home rather than get other people sick.)

 

I got home and he'd gotten all the dirty dishes/plastic cups/trash out of his room. Don't get me wrong, there are two chili bowls soaking in teh sink and I know he's hoping I'll just wash them for him, but he did clean up the room some. Still stuff everywhere, but it no longer is gross. 

 

AND....he did his history reading asignment, two assignments in Wordly wise, AND a geometry lesson!!!  I did dock points on some of these things, the ones due before he got sick. I didn't dock the ones for the days he was sick, as he and I both acknowledged that in public school he has 48 hours after returning to class to turn it in without penalty. So those days didn't count against him, BUT, this time I'm not bumping back the whole schedule to allow him to catch up, like I used to. I told him that, and he tried to argue, but I held firm.

 

He still needs to finish the written part of his Biology assignment, and to do his literature assignments, but he DID do work, and I wasn't here bugging him. He could have just gamed all day. And he's still coughing, sneezing, etc, but looks like he feels a lot better. He'd had headaches the last few days and that seems to be gone. 

 

So, going to count this as a win so far!  We're getting along so much better, and maybe this will work. It's early days, but maybe :)

 

If it doesn't, next option is studying for Clep tests and doing that, but I'd rather we give this a try for a bit longer. 

 

Thanks everyone for being here with me....the support means so very very very much. 

 

Edited to Add: When I got home and saw that he'd been productive I actually hugged him. He grimaced but laughed. 

[brehon]

Woot on the good day!

 

Katie, I'm wondering if drinking a cup of coffee in the mornings would help your son focus better. I don't remember if you were on the boards years ago; however, I remember a poster talking about her ds and how he had a coffee maker or espresso machine in his room because drinking the coffee allowed him to do his school work. If I recall correctly, he ultimately won a scholarship and attended a really good LAC. I *think* he had ADHD, too, and simply couldn't do any work without the caffeine.

 

Anyway I have no relevant experience and think you are handling this much better than I would. Huge kudos to you! And your ds for working today!

[ktgrok]

OH, he definitely has coffee in the mornings! Even bought him a cold brew pot to make it in, as he prefers iced. But often he drinks it, then gets onto something else, then bythe time he goes back to do schoolwork it has worn off :(

 

But he has put together that math is easier right after coffee...we we have a start. 

[ktgrok]

Another insight into my son's personality. You know how kids want to do everything themselves? Yeah, times 1000. He actually taught himeself to swim, rather than put up with me teaching him. Everytime I'd offer advice or tell him what to do he'd duck under the water, to avoid listening to my instructions!  

[brehon]

OH, he definitely has coffee in the mornings! Even bought him a cold brew pot to make it in, as he prefers iced. But often he drinks it, then gets onto something else, then bythe time he goes back to do schoolwork it has worn off :(

 

But he has put together that math is easier right after coffee...we we have a start.

Of course. <sigh> Teenagers.

[LMD]

Can I just say, I'm not dealing with the asd/ADHD stuff or the teens yet, but I'm getting a lot out of this thread. You're a great mum doing a fantastic job! Thanks to everyone for contributing.

[Guest]

I'm so glad today was another improvement! It sounds like your current strategy might be good for both of you,

[ErinE]

Another insight into my son's personality. You know how kids want to do everything themselves? Yeah, times 1000. He actually taught himeself to swim, rather than put up with me teaching him. Everytime I'd offer advice or tell him what to do he'd duck under the water, to avoid listening to my instructions!  

 

I have one of these. Big hugs to you for your patience and understanding. :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Mrs. Tharp]

He wants to go to a 4 yr college and study information security, and do that for a living, like my husband. Which of course requires grades and such. 

 

I told him fine, if he isn't going to study he will just get a bad grade, and that effects him going to college. He said, "I don't think you will let that happen." So I guess he needs to see himself fail and know I won't save him. 

 

Yes. This, exactly. Take care of yourself and allow him to fail. It is the only way he will learn to take responsibility. Don't fight over homework. Don't sacrifice your family time in the evenings to fight with him. In the long run, this will be a positive thing.  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

ETA: Should have read the rest of the comments before posting, ha. 

[ktgrok]

Started reading smart but scattered as well, for some more insight. Don't get me wrong,I GET it...I was a smart but scattered kid too. Smart, but would forget my homework at home, or lose it in my insanely messy locker. Never had paper and a pencil in class because I'd forget to tell my parents I was out. Half the time forgot to bring the right textbook to class and had to share with someone. My lovely friends, bless them, helped me out a lot!  And yes, some teachers took pity on me. But, I did have the drive to do well, get good grades, etc and didn't have the extra stuff going on that he has as far as refusing help, etc. 

[ktgrok]

i'm also looking at his schedule this morning, and realizing that it LOOKS more streamlined, with the curriculum switches. I'm wondering if that is going to help. He's always reacted badly to a long list of assignments, even when I point out that they are short and will take less time than the day before when he had a shorter, but more time consuming list. English is now done with history, in Notgrass Exploring America, and I'm just adding Wordly Wise to that for now. Biology isn't a whole list of pages to read, the assignment takes just one line for me to write out. Math, now that he's in Geometry and done with Algebra 2 is just one lesson a day. 

[gardenmom5]

 

Since your son is interested in a computer-related field I wonder if he could begin to take classes for a degree or a related certificate in that field. It might be the the jump-start needed. Just a thought.

 

1ds recently signed dudeling up for a khan-academy account.  he has him learning coding. it's free.

 

1ds used it to get up to speed with calculus because he wants to do engineering - and he had to start with calculus.  he's starting at the local (former community) college with plans to transfer to a state four-year school.  it took him awhile to figure out what he wanted to do, but he is now very much in the driver's seat.

[ktgrok]

It's 1:30 and he's done geometry. That's it. Sigh. 

[OneStepAtATime]

It's 1:30 and he's done geometry. That's it. Sigh. 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

Stop hovering, even if it is only mental hovering.  It isn't healthy for you and at this point it isn't going to help him.  In fact, the more he senses you hovering the less he may want to do anything at all.  Act like you really are walking away from this.  It really is his responsibility.  Find something else to occupy your brain.  Good luck.

[ktgrok]

Oh, I didn't even ask him. He checks things off on homeschool planet as he does them, so I glanced at that. I haven't said ONE WORD. I'm so proud of myself. 

 

He did come ask me to clarify another assignment, then went to take a shower. 

[ktgrok]

I checked his dual enrollment class grades, as his father actually asked me to please do so. I explained this was his father asking, and made a joke about how I have enough to keep track of with the classes he takes at home! He didn't mind showing me, and he actually does have everything turned in, AND of the two assignments that are graded he has a 100% on one and 110% on the other! So that's good news! 

 

Also, our community college was actual mentioned on NPR today as being one that other schools are learning from, as it has such a good reputation! So that was good too!

[ktgrok]

And he's now caught up on Biology :)

 

He did try to cop out and write way too brief an answer for one On Your Own question, and I docked him for it. "Man, you mean it wants me to write it all out? I just put a short thing...." yes, I know what you did. No, it isn't what was asked for. 

 

He just has history to do for today's list, and he is behind on his literature. But he's getting there. And he's working on migrating the server he helps admin into a new data center over the next few days. 

[ktgrok]

He's still not feeling well, sinuses are plugged, dry cough, bad postnasal drip, so I did the Doc on demand thing via the internet and got him a script of antibiotics, as he has a long history of sinus infections. Then the doctor offered to write a note to get him out of school. yeah...he took that to mean he didn't need to do any. Even though I'm pretty sure reading A Separate Peace isn't any more taxing than playing video games and chatting with his friends. He did do his Geometry though. After taking a year and a half to finish Algebra 2 I think he's afraid to get behind in that. 

[katilac]

  so I did the Doc on demand thing via the internet and got him a script of antibiotics, as he has a long history of sinus infections. 

 

I am now completely sidetracked by this. 

 

Did he just ask for symptoms? Did ds cough into the microphone, lol? 

 

This would be amazing. When I get bronchitis, it comes on fast and it's usually impossible to get to the doctor quickly, bc I have to wait for someone to drive me. 

 

Edited to add: I am in one of 3 states they don't operate in yet. Our stupid politicians at work, I'm sure! 

[ktgrok]

They did look at his throat via webcam..mostly they go by symptoms you describe. Bascially the kids have had enough sinus infections I know what to say now in order to get a script of antibiotics :)

[ktgrok]

Deep breaths. 

 

I woke him up at 10 am, an hour later than usual. I took out the recycling for him because I heard the truck coming and there was no time to wake him before it got to us. I also scooped the litterbox for him because I figured stirring up that dust wasn't good for his sinus infection. I woke him up at 10, told him I did those things, and then went to do stuff with the little kids. Came back and he's done nothing productive, just gaming. And when I interuppted him to get some info I needed in order to file a warranty claim on his broken phone he was rude to me. I'm NOT happy. I'm calming down, then going from there. 

 

He's been "out of school a week". I know he still doesn't feel great, but at this point I think he needs to be getting more than one or two things done a day. He obviously disagrees. 

 

I hate this. 

[MomatHWTK]

Ugh, I can't get anything done during mornings.  Our whole household usually does school late afternoon and into evening unless we are all up early by some fluke.  

[ktgrok]

Ugh, I can't get anything done during mornings.  Our whole household usually does school late afternoon and into evening unless we are all up early by some fluke.  

 

By his own admission the later he does something the worse he can concentrate. 

 

So he uses up that prime concentration time for stuff he WANTS to do well in, rather than school. 

 

I did find out he's in the middle of that server migration, from one to another. Not because he nicely explained it, but because he yelled at me about it. 

 

I informed him that the way he's treating me means he shouldn't expect me to drive him to his homeschool activity this friday. Yelling at mom is not allowed. 

[MomatHWTK]

I am not going to offer advice, because each situation is so different and your choices are yours to make, but my ASD kid would not be able to handle interactions like the ones you describe between yourself and your DS without serious difficulty.  I'm just speculating, but I think if I tried those techniques with my guy he would be in continuous fight of flight mode and would have a chance to engage higher thinking.   

 

I think it is great that your DS is doing so well in so much of his school work and has a paying job.  I hope my guy can find something he loves to do that pays.  He would love to find something he could do from home someday.    :thumbup1:

[ktgrok]

He came out an apologized, then told me a bit more about the server migration. We discussed the right and wrong way to deal with family while stressed, as all the family has deadlines to deal with. Cracked a few jokes. 

 

I'm upset he hasn't done any schoolwork, but at least he's working and not gaming. 

[ktgrok]

I actually was thinking we've decreased the drama between us. I can't not grade schoolwork and not nag him to do it, trust me, we learned over the years that just means nothing ever gets done. 

 

As for jobs for those on the spectrum, IT jobs are great. So much communication is done by computer, which means that there is no body language or facial stuff to figure out, or tone of voice to interpret. A lot of neurotypical people find that difficult, but I figure it just levels the playing field for someone on the spectrum. 

I am not going to offer advice, because each situation is so different and your choices are yours to make, but my ASD kid would not be able to handle interactions like the ones you describe between yourself and your DS without serious difficulty.  I'm just speculating, but I think if I tried those techniques with my guy he would be in continuous fight of flight mode and would have a chance to engage higher thinking.   

 

I think it is great that your DS is doing so well in so much of his school work and has a paying job.  I hope my guy can find something he loves to do that pays.  He would love to find something he could do from home someday.    :thumbup1:

 

[ktgrok]

The good news: he's still sick but totally caught up on Geometry. In fact, he did today's lesson yesterday. He says he never wants to get behind in math again, after having to do Algebra 2 for so long, over the summer, etc. The bad news is, other than that and Latin, he hasn't done anything else. But he is still sick. I do wish he'd generalize the lesson he learned about geometry to his other subjects!

 

His laptop computer funds are available, and my DH has said he will take him shopping to get one when,and only when, he is caught up on schoolwork and his room is clean. "Actual clean, not BS clean" was what he said. I passed the info on to son, who after taking the trash out went back to sleep. 

[ktgrok]

Small update. 

 

He's still getting over being sick, but back "to school" this week. I pushed back his history as we have time left at the end of the year, so he isn't totally overhwelmed. He has one lesson a day scheduled, rather than two lessons if I hadn't pushed it back. Biology, we don't have room to push back any more so he is doing double work this week, theorectically. So far he's done two lessons and it's Thursday. He has kept up with Geometry, his dual enrollment class, and his online Latin class as best as I can tell. 

[ktgrok]

he's caught up!!!!!  As of right this minute, he has zero outstanding assignments! Now, I did trade out his Bio test with tomorrows assignment, as he wanted to do the test in the morning when he was fresh. That seemed fair, an even trade of one assignment for another. But yay!

[freesia]

he's caught up!!!!!  As of right this minute, he has zero outstanding assignments! Now, I did trade out his Bio test with tomorrows assignment, as he wanted to do the test in the morning when he was fresh. That seemed fair, an even trade of one assignment for another. But yay!

Yay!

[SproutMamaK]

Wow, what a huge change! How has his attitude been over the past few days as he's been getting caught up on everything? I'm hoping that him getting all this work done over the past few days wasn't done at the expense of him lashing out at you. Either way I'm glad he caught up, but I'm hoping for your sake that it was in a positive, self-driven way.  SO relieved for you... maybe there's hope for mine yet, lol. :D

[Guest]

I'm cheering for you both. What great news!

[Catwoman]

:party:

 

You must be so relieved that he is caught up!

[ktgrok]

Wow, what a huge change! How has his attitude been over the past few days as he's been getting caught up on everything? I'm hoping that himgetting all this work done over the past few days wasn't done at the expense of him lashing out at you. Either way I'm glad he caught up, but I'm hoping for your sake that it was in a positive, self-driven way.  SO relieved for you... maybe there's hope for mine yet, lol. :D

 

I wont' lie, there were a few tense minutes. Usually brought on by me harping on him. I did cut him some slack because he'd been sick for so long, so we moved history out a week. And the workload is much lighter with the new curriculum so that helped. But mostly, I tried to present myself as there to help. I offered to take him with me to Panera to work if he wanted, and I'd work on my writing and he could do that. (he turned me down, but appreciated hte offer). He came and hung out on my bed while doing some biology, and when he needed to look up some outside info a few times I googled it for him and read out what I found. I teased him a bit when he got things REALLY wrong (dear lord, how did my gifted 16 year old think butterflies had a backbone???), but all in good fun. Today, my husband took the little kids to the science center (he's on vacation) nd that was a good time for us to work together on his first microscope lab. I read him the directions out loud as he did it, and just kept him company. 

And then tonight, when he was in spitting distance of being caught up, i threatened to stay up all night with him if need be, but darn it, he was not going to bed still behind. And at that point, when that was clear, I turned off his internet. Only took him about 20 more minutes of work to be done, and then I turned it back on. If I'd turned it off when he still had a ton of work to do he would have shut down. But he could see the end in sight, so he just went and did it. Which tells me, I need to make sure he doesn't get that behind in the first place. 

 

But mostly, having the grades has helped too. I told him today was the last day to make up sick work, and tomorrow ponts were coming off. He's had a few other assignments where he has lost points as well. And at least once a week I'm printing a grade report and showing it to him, so it's real. 

 

but mostly, I've had some HUGE stress moments, but kept from bashing heads with him, and let him work it out. I've spent nights worrying, but our relationship is much better. 

[MomatHWTK]

:coolgleamA:

[ktgrok]

I should also say, he has a mix of A's and B's right now. He is Totally capable of straight A's. But that's his choice. And at least respectable!

[Harriet Vane]

Awesome! sounds like this is working. 

 

Can you reward him for catching up? You have mentioned how much negative interaction you have had in the past, and it is lovely that you are replacing that with a neutral stance on some things and positive in others (conversation, hanging out, etc.). A small gift--a chocolate sundae or something?--may add to the bank of encouragement you are building.

 

So glad to see this is working well for you!!!

[ktgrok]

Awesome! sounds like this is working. 

 

Can you reward him for catching up? You have mentioned how much negative interaction you have had in the past, and it is lovely that you are replacing that with a neutral stance on some things and positive in others (conversation, hanging out, etc.). A small gift--a chocolate sundae or something?--may add to the bank of encouragement you are building.

 

So glad to see this is working well for you!!!

 

Well, DH is going to take him to get a macbook pro tomorrow. We will be reimbursed by his scholarship, but we said we weren't fronting the money if he wasn't going to be serious about his schoolwork. And he wants to go to Ikea to buy himself a bookshelf for his room, and I'm going to take him tomorrow, now that he's caught up. And buy him his favorite lunch while there. And probably offer to pay for half the bookshelf. 

 

Oh, and when he got mostly caught up today I ordered him a pizza :)

[Guest]

Great news!

Now: don't YOU backslide and start owning his stuff again!!!! K?????