TLC can't get enough of the Duggars...

[ocelotmom]

Property brothers

 

I don't have a TV, but when I'm watching for some reason, it ends up being HGTV, a police procedural, or a medical drama. I fear I've become some sort of stereotype, but I'm not sure what.

 

Somehow people I can rarely identify with in the slightest house-hunting or renovating is endlessly compelling.

[mamiof5]

Well...the Kardashians are still around... Why can't the Duggars?

[Catwoman]

Well...the Kardashians are still around... Why can't the Duggars?

Are you talking about the entire family or just the girls?

[mamiof5]

Are you talking about the entire family or just the girls?

Honestly no idea? I don't watch TV, at all. All I know is that I constantly see the Kardashians on the magazine covers at the grocery store, and always wonder why on earth are they celebrities?

[Catwoman]

Honestly no idea? I don't watch TV, at all. All I know is that I constantly see the Kardashians on the magazine covers at the grocery store, and always wonder why on earth are they celebrities?

I have no idea why the Kardashians are celebrities, either!

[mamiof5]

I have no idea why the Kardashians are celebrities, either!

There's so much garbage in TV, I always wonder why anyone would waste time and money to produce it :(

[gardenmom5]

Well...the Kardashians are still around... Why can't the Duggars?

 

I wish they'd all go away.

I have no idea why the Kardashians are celebrities, either!

 

Kris Jenner is a pimp.  seriously - she's the one who released HER DAUGHTER'S s3x tape!  and pushes them to be this way.  just, gross.  sickening.  no one associated with her could possibly stay sane.

[displace]

Maybe Jessa can discuss her two week Spanish lessons the donors paid for her to go to El Salvador to receive.

[DawnM]

There's so much garbage in TV, I always wonder why anyone would waste time and money to produce it :(

 

 

Because, just like every other reason to waste time and money, it is money producing.  If people didn't watch it, they wouldn't produce it.

 

Believe me, if TLC wanted to do a show on my family, we would be so boring, they would either need to give us a script to make up stuff, of no one would watch.  DH says we can't even be on wife swap because we are just that dang uninteresting in our daily lives.

[Guest]

Ok, I've been off the boards for several weeks so maybe I missed some stuff. I thought Jill and Jessa were married? So I'm confused as to how their dad gets their money (maybe their husbands do?). Also, shouldn't we support them getting their own show and making their own livelihood? It seems like a step up. I mean, I wouldn't choose to be on a reality show but maybe that's what they want for themselves. Plus, it would be supporting the victims of abuse. Maybe it's a platform for them to speak out.

 

Maybe this is could be a pro-woman, make the girls the spotlight and leave out the brother and dad thing.

 

Or maybe I'm naive.

 

:laugh:

Yes Jessa and Jill are married and, one would assume, have lives of their own. In reality, Jill is probably more independant, because her husband is not a cult zombie and they are moving out of the country. Jessa's husband is or was working for JimBoob and I do not assume she is able to live independantly.

 

To me, the bigger issue is that this reality show stuff is not beneficial for their children. All the Duggar youngest kids have grown up with their lives broadcast; they are famous with no understanding of why and not due to their own merits, and now all the youngest kids live with the embarrassement of Josh's downfall.

 

I am fully supportive of the grown girls having their own lives and a good livelihood, but not theough a TV show that does the same exact thing to their kids as was done to themselves and their younger siblings.

[Mimm]

Sounds more like a vacation.

 

Seriously. Sign me up, can I go be a missionary to Italy?

 

It's a joke... but I'm sure there are plenty of missionaries in Italy trying to convert Catholics.

[Luanne]

And I still don't understand the need to crucify the entire family (including the one's who were victims) for what ONE person in the family did.  It isn't like there are NO other families in the world where one person did something wrong like this.  If we were taking about rape, would you crucify the victim and blame then for what the guilty person did?  I doubt it.

[KungFuPanda]

I have nothing to contribute. I'm just here to tell you all that you're doing the Internet wrong.

 

[fairfarmhand]

I have nothing to contribute. I'm just here to tell you all that you're doing the Internet wrong.

 

 

One of the best scenes EVER!

[mommaduck]

Yes, I have absolutely zero problem talking about someone trying to convert other Christians. It's an issue. It deserves discussing. Pimping your family or on TV is also an issue with talking about. It's not good and not healthy.

[Laurie]

Well, to be fair, the vast majority of the population somehow manages to earn a living without having their own reality television show, but I do understand your point.

 

If I thought JimBob wasn't involved and that this was something the girls could do in order to become financially independent from their parents, I would support them.

 

I don't watch the Kardashians or the Real Housewives, either. I am not a fan of reality television, although for some bizarre and unexplainable reason, I have somehow managed to become addicted to "Texas Flip and Move." :blush:

 

Recently I read that Jill is now officially a certified midwife.   I don't know what Jessa's plans are beyond being a wife/mother...and since I'm "only" a full-time wife/mother myself I don't see anything wrong with that.  But I think it's sad that innocent members of the family lost their "tv jobs", especially the victims.  

 

I don't watch the Kardashians or the Real Housewives, but they seem to have an audience.   There are so many  shows to choose from, and like the saying goes, "One man's trash is another man's treasure."  :laugh:

 

[Catwoman]

And I still don't understand the need to crucify the entire family (including the one's who were victims) for what ONE person in the family did. It isn't like there are NO other families in the world where one person did something wrong like this. If we were taking about rape, would you crucify the victim and blame then for what the guilty person did? I doubt it.

I think most of us feel sorry for the other kids; at least I do. It's not their fault that Josh turned out to be a pervert.

 

One thing we haven't really discussed, though, is whether or not some of the kids might be feeling incredibly relieved at not having to perform for the cameras any more.

 

I keep thinking of the stories about Jeremy, the youngest son of the Roloffs, who always resented being forced to live his life on television to the point where he moved out of the house the minute he turned 18. Obviously we don't know the whole story behind it, but in my mind, if the entire family is being featured on a reality show, then it makes sense that the entire family should be in agreement that it is a good idea.

 

I guess that is my biggest problem with reality shows that include children -- the kids don't seem to have a voice in the decision, and the parents' greed and/or desire for fame can win out over the children's feelings and best interests.

[Catwoman]

Recently I read that Jill is now officially a certified midwife. I don't know what Jessa's plans are beyond being a wife/mother...and since I'm "only" a full-time wife/mother myself I don't see anything wrong with that. But I think it's sad that innocent members of the family lost their "tv jobs", especially the victims.

 

I don't watch the Kardashians or the Real Housewives, but they seem to have an audience. There are so many shows to choose from, and like the saying goes, "One man's trash is another man's treasure." :laugh:

 

I'm glad to hear that Jill got her certification. :hurray: I hope the other girls follow her example and either go to college or train for a career so they will be able to support themselves financially -- even if they end up being SAHMs -- because they should always have something to fall back on if it becomes necessary.

[HRAAB]

I probably saw the Duggar show a half dozen times over the years, and this new one won't even get that much. I suspect some others in this house will be curious enough to turn it on to see what the girls have to say, and that will be it. To be fair, I do not watch much TV and no reality TV. Except for PBS and BBC America, my TV viewing would be nil.

[Cinder]

Well, to be fair, the vast majority of the population somehow manages to earn a living without having their own reality television show, but I do understand your point.

 

If I thought JimBob wasn't involved and that this was something the girls could do in order to become financially independent from their parents, I would support them.

 

I don't watch the Kardashians or the Real Housewives, either. I am not a fan of reality television, although for some bizarre and unexplainable reason, I have somehow managed to become addicted to "Texas Flip and Move." :blush:

 

Top Chef, here. And I, too, wondered how much the parents would benefit vs. the daughters and their families.

[Mimm]

And I still don't understand the need to crucify the entire family (including the one's who were victims) for what ONE person in the family did.  It isn't like there are NO other families in the world where one person did something wrong like this.  If we were taking about rape, would you crucify the victim and blame then for what the guilty person did?  I doubt it.

 

Seriously, NO ONE on here has "crucified" Josh's victims for his actions. The Duggars in general have gotten a lot of criticism for their beliefs, for making their children live their lives on camera, and for how they handled Josh's crimes. They've gotten criticized for hypocrisy and for having what many people here, including me, see as a dangerous and harmful belief system. They were being criticized for this before the molestation thing came out so please don't pretend this is all about Josh. Go back to previous Duggar threads from years ago. You'll find some of the same posters saying the same things about the family. If you think anyone here is blaming the girls for what Josh did, you haven't read any of these threads. That's a pretty nasty and offensive accusation really. People are allowed to disagree with Jill's missionary work while not blaming her for Josh molesting her.

[catz]

Seriously, NO ONE on here has "crucified" Josh's victims for his actions. The Duggars in general have gotten a lot of criticism for their beliefs, for making their children live their lives on camera, and for how they handled Josh's crimes. They've gotten criticized for hypocrisy and for having what many people here, including me, see as a dangerous and harmful belief system. They were being criticized for this before the molestation thing came out so please don't pretend this is all about Josh. Go back to previous Duggar threads from years ago. You'll find some of the same posters saying the same things about the family. If you think anyone here is blaming the girls for what Josh did, you haven't read any of these threads. That's a pretty nasty and offensive accusation really. People are allowed to disagree with Jill's missionary work while not blaming her for Josh molesting her.

 

:iagree: And sorry Duggars.  If you want to live your life in the public eye, there will be discussion and criticism.  Refuse interviews and stay out of the lime light and that will all fade very quickly.  And I wouldn't say only one person in the family acted dishonorably.  Would we be having this discussion now if JB hadn't decided his family should be celebrities and have their kids grow up on TV>  I have been saying for years (even on this board), reality shows should not have children on them.  If adults want to live their lives publicly, so be it.  Kids shouldn't have to answer for things they do while they're minors and have that follow them around forever.  This is the effect and shouldn't be a surprise. 

 

As someone said earlier, as long as people keep discussing the Duggars, they're still relevant and can still make some money off of media appearances.  They LOVE that someone is still willing to talk to them.  (yawn) 

[saw]

  If we were taking about rape, would you crucify the victim and blame then for what the guilty person did?  I doubt it.

 

I wouldn't, but the ATI movement very well may blame the victim because she dressed immodestly.

 

http://gawker.com/the-duggar-homeschool-programs-terrifying-advice-on-sex-1706406324

[gardenmom5]

Seriously, NO ONE on here has "crucified" Josh's victims for his actions. The Duggars in general have gotten a lot of criticism for their beliefs, for making their children live their lives on camera, and for how they handled Josh's crimes. They've gotten criticized for hypocrisy and for having what many people here, including me, see as a dangerous and harmful belief system. They were being criticized for this before the molestation thing came out so please don't pretend this is all about Josh. Go back to previous Duggar threads from years ago. You'll find some of the same posters saying the same things about the family. If you think anyone here is blaming the girls for what Josh did, you haven't read any of these threads. That's a pretty nasty and offensive accusation really. People are allowed to disagree with Jill's missionary work while not blaming her for Josh molesting her.

 

about the only people I could see blaming the girls are ATI supporters  . . . . .

and equating condemning the duggars for putting their children on TV to earn an income to support their extremely large family (the one JB and M chose to have), is NOT the same thing.  not. at. all.

[HS Mom in NC]

If you're being paid by a network to film and broadcast your life, to you it's not gossip; it's publicity.

[abcmommy]

I'm glad to hear that Jill got her certification. :hurray: I hope the other girls follow her example and either go to college or train for a career so they will be able to support themselves financially -- even if they end up being SAHMs -- because they should always have something to fall back on if it becomes necessary.

CPMs are NOT legal in many states.  Its sort of an apprenticeship with no real oversight.  "Certificates" are NOTHING compared to CNM programs which are a masters in nursing.

[ocelotmom]

CPMs are NOT legal in many states.  Its sort of an apprenticeship with no real oversight.  "Certificates" are NOTHING compared to CNM programs which are a masters in nursing.

 

And yet CPMs are, in many areas, the only option if you want a homebirth.

[mommaduck]

I know some CPMs that are highly respected by CNMs. My two homebirths were in a very homebirth friendly area. More areas need to become like that.

[Catwoman]

CPMs are NOT legal in many states. Its sort of an apprenticeship with no real oversight. "Certificates" are NOTHING compared to CNM programs which are a masters in nursing.

It's still far, far more than most of us expected any of the Duggar girls to achieve, given that it appears none of them have been permitted to attend college or train for any kind of career.

 

I give her a lot of credit for working hard and doing what she said she wanted to do. Apparently, CPMs are legal where she lives, so it doesn't really matter whether she can use her certification elsewhere. I'm not sure why you insist on comparing her certification to a masters degree in nursing, as I'm sure she hasn't been misrepresenting herself or her training or qualifications. :confused:

[JadeOrchidSong]

I cannot stand the term 19 Kids and Counting. To me, it means producing kids has become an idol and it simply sounds very arrogant. I also agree that reality shows are harmful for children involved in them.

I have never watched any of the Duggar show and I don't have the desire to now.

[ktgrok]

CPMs are NOT legal in many states.  Its sort of an apprenticeship with no real oversight.  "Certificates" are NOTHING compared to CNM programs which are a masters in nursing.

 

Um, it's not just a sort of apprenticeship. There is a national board exam, and at least in my state several years of focused schooling including clinicals are required as well. No, it's not a master's level program. It's much more similar to what is done in European countries where women can become midwives directly, without becoming nurses first. Of course, in some countries doctors go straight to med school after college, and don't do college degrees first. They are still doctors. 

 

In my state CPMs are regulated, have to have attended midwifery school, and must have passed the national board exam. 

[gardenmom5]

I went and looked up my state's requirements.  there are accredited schools with midwifery programs that do not require a BSN. (or even a LPN.)   as long as the CPM/LM meets the state requirements they can apply for a license and are completely legal.  there are free standing clinics, as well as midwives who practice out of hospitals in our state.

 

only when non-licensed midwives (iow: have not done enough training to pass the state exam) when it is part of their religious practice will the state look the other way. Those midwives may not advertise, nor charge for their services.

[December]

There is a strong movement growing against CPMs as more and more horror stories are surfacing of people who have lost their babies to negligent midwives (often CPMs).  This is a very controversial blog, but if you want to get an understanding of where people like abcmommy are coming from when they make statements derogatory about CPMs then it would be a good place to start:

 

http://www.skepticalob.com/2015/09/jill-duggar-dillard-is-not-a-real-midwife-shes-a-cpm-a-counterfeit-professional-midwife.html 

 

Huh, for some reason the link as its displayed here doesn't work, but if you just refresh the page then it is fine.

[ktgrok]

Please. There are bad CPMs and bad OBs. I personally know of at least half a dozen lying, dangerous OBs, and one bad CPM. The CPM is the only one to be reported, 

 

And I will never again click on that hateful woman's link. And for anyone checking, she is a troll. She doesn't have a medical license, she only blogs to attack midwives. Period. 

[StaceyinLA]

Okay I will admit that I will most likely watch Jessa's show out of curiousity. She has pretty openly condemned Josh on her Instagram, and I am honestly curious as to what direction that might go for her.

 

Since Jill pretty much seems to stand firm with the whole, "wife needs to take care of her man or it's okay for him to cheat," approach (based on the sermon links she posted a little while back), I'm not sure I could stomach watching her.

 

One of them is bound to make a stand at some point, and I'd like to witness it...

[StaceyinLA]

CPMs are NOT legal in many states.  Its sort of an apprenticeship with no real oversight.  "Certificates" are NOTHING compared to CNM programs which are a masters in nursing.

 

Well a CPM delivered my son at home, and has delivered at least 1500 babies over the years. She is quite well-respected by the OB that does her backup (and others), as well as the CNM she works with. 

 

I'm not speaking to Jill's abilities or lack thereof, but CPMs have been around for a LONG time, and I disagree with the assumption that they are less qualified just because they weren't nurses first. Most nurses aren't well-versed in natural birth coming out of nursing school. In addition, the CPMs in our state have to pass medical board licensing tests just like doctors and nurses.

 

I know a lot of labor and delivery nurses that aren't really equipped to do much more than watch monitors. Hands-on maternity care is a lost art. CPMs are much more in tune with the natural, normal bodily function that birth usually is.

[mommaduck]

Please. There are bad CPMs and bad OBs. I personally know of at least half a dozen lying, dangerous OBs, and one bad CPM. The CPM is the only one to be reported,

 

And I will never again click on that hateful woman's link. And for anyone checking, she is a troll. She doesn't have a medical license, she only blogs to attack midwives. Period.

Thanks for the warning. I was debating. I know a jealous CNM that constantly harassed a CPM, because the CPM had more clients. Uhm, not one liked the CNM's attitude and that can be a problem.

[mommaduck]

My CPM had been certified in Uganda. She has previously been a doula in the PNW. My first home birth was her last needed for certification (yes, you have deliver so many babies BEFORE you are certified). She practiced with a group of CNMs at a clinic AND has her own practice on the side (yes, everyone knew about this and its perfectly legal). She had an OB at a hospital that was willing to take any transfers from her. Her work at the clinic permitted her to carry and use pitocin in case of an emergency (something CPMs generally don't have access to, but it was part of her job with the CNMs. Seriously, I could not have asked for better. CPMs are also trained to take clients on a case by case basis. If I had seemed to be someone without sense to listen, she would not have taken me. She knew that if she referred me to an OB or transfer to a hospital, I would do it. Many losses have happened due to parents refusing to follow the instructions of their CPM or CNM. OH, FTR, EVERY OB, CNM, and CPM will have a loss. It happens. It happens at home. It happens very often in the hospital (the US actually has a higher infant mortality rate than other first world nations where home birth is more normalised and difficult births/pregnancies are sent to the hospital...those mortality numbers are from our hospitals).

[abcmommy]

I have used and worked for CNMs.  

 

I would never EVER hire the CNM I worked, and I will tell anyone who asks locally my experience and why.  But in general I would usually never recommend a CPM if an alternative exists.

 

(1500 babies does not sound like a whole lot to me)

 

Any CPM certs are pretty loose and not standardized. 

[StephanieZ]

I have used and worked for CNMs.  

 

I would never EVER hire the CNM I worked, and I will tell anyone who asks locally my experience and why.  But in general I would usually never recommend a CPM if an alternative exists.

 

(1500 babies does not sound like a whole lot to me)

 

Any CPM certs are pretty loose and not standardized. 

 

FWIW, 1500 babies for a home birth midwife, especially a lay (direct entry, whatever you call it) is a LOT. My first baby was attended by a wonderful direct entry midwife, and my second would have also if he hadn't been too fast a birth for the midwife to get there . . . (so he was safely and nicely delivered in the hospital by our back up OB). 

 

A home birth can typically include 12-24 or (many) more hours of attendance by the midwife at the birth itself, plus 2 or so hour visits for several days following. They don't show up just to catch the baby . . . they show up early on in the birth and are there for the whole thing, awake, coaching, checking on you throughout the labor and for hours post-delivery (and coming back for several more hours once a day for a few days). 

 

And of course prenatal care visits of an hour or two up to many visits. In order to be available for such an event, the midwife really can't schedule more than a couple births per month, maybe one per week max if she is working full time and has good back-up with other midwives to cover if she ends up with two births happening at the same time. So, one a week 50 weeks a year would be 50 babies a year. 1500 would be 30 YEARS of full time midwifing. That's a LOT of babies and experience. 

 

Typically, a lay midwife always has a second midwife there for most or all of the birth as well, so she likely attends a second birth for every one she is the main midwife for. 

 

So, at a "one per week" schedule, she'd be attending TWO 24+/- hour births each week in addition to all the many hours of pre and post natal care . . .

 

I've BTDT with one lay midwife birth (wonderful), one OB attended 4 hour in-and-out hospital birth (the one that was planned as home birth but logistics made it impossible for the planned midwife OR her backup to get there on time due to the illegality of home birth in our state at that time and so the limited number of home birth attendants -- fortunately we had a supportive OB who provided a wonderful and very brief hospital birth and then we got back home for the recovery), and one CNM attended home birth (in a state that was home birth friendly). All were good births with good attendants. I had complete confidence in our attendants in all cases. The home birth attendants were, however, unmatched in their skill, compassion, and peaceful support of a healthy natural birth. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I have used and worked for CNMs.  

 

I would never EVER hire the CNM I worked, and I will tell anyone who asks locally my experience and why.  But in general I would usually never recommend a CPM if an alternative exists.

 

(1500 babies does not sound like a whole lot to me)

 

Any CPM certs are pretty loose and not standardized. 

 

You should start another thread on that topic since you seem to want to talk about different midwife certifications outside  of the Duggar context. Doing so is hijacking the thread-that's frowned on here.  I suggest when you do, you provide some research to back up your position because this is TWTM boards and people around here are usually interested in more substantial discussions about medical related issues.

 

[Catwoman]

I have used and worked for CNMs.

 

I would never EVER hire the CNM I worked, and I will tell anyone who asks locally my experience and why. But in general I would usually never recommend a CPM if an alternative exists.

 

(1500 babies does not sound like a whole lot to me)

 

Any CPM certs are pretty loose and not standardized.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask you this -- if "1500 babies does not sound like a whole lot" to you, I can't help but wonder what you would consider to be "a whole lot," because 1500 babies sure sounds like a whole lot of babies to me!

 

(Not being snarky -- I'm genuinely curious.)

[Audrey]

Catholics don't want or need them. Catholics and Orthodox are really tired of having various other groups come and try to proselytize them and their countries.

 

 

Rather funny, isn't it? Seeing as how the Catholics and Orthodox were first on the block.  It's a bit like Justin Beiber telling Placido Domingo how to hit a high C.

[StaceyinLA]

I'm sorry, but I have to ask you this -- if "1500 babies does not sound like a whole lot" to you, I can't help but wonder what you would consider to be "a whole lot," because 1500 babies sure sounds like a whole lot of babies to me!

 

(Not being snarky -- I'm genuinely curious.)

 

I'm wondering this as well, since most people would have no issue seeing an OB that just graduated med school and may/may not have nearly that many deliveries during a residency (certainly not that many that weren't medically induced and/or delivered via c-section).

 

1500 deliveries is a LOT of hours with laboring women, and all but 2% of those (statistically) were delivered without "needing" medical interventions or c-sections.

[itsheresomewhere]

Maybe they can discuss Jill's missionary funds.

From some stuff coming out, I think we are about to get that "discussion".  

[gardenmom5]

From some stuff coming out, I think we are about to get that "discussion".  

 

oh, please.  spare us.  .  .  (I won't be watching anyways.  but headlines can be hard to avoid, unless avoiding all news sources.  and even then, . . .)

 

I feel sorry for the youngest children, they've never known any different.

[Mimm]

Yeah it sounds like they've been deliberately vague and perhaps intentionally misleading. They don't have a church supporting them but posted that their church had "officially commissioned" them which apparently was nothing more than praying for them. And now people are upset that they are going back and forth to the US and don't seem to be doing much to actually help people in El Salvador.

 

ETA: Hit post too soon.

 

My question is this. If they've got TLC money, why are they soliciting donations? I'm generally against parents being on reality TV shows, but if they were doing these things and saying, "Yeah, we're going to use the money to help people of El Salvador," then I might be more inclined to be ok with it (not that my being ok with it matters one iota to the Duggars, nor should it). Though I guess it would matter to me if money was being used to build schools and houses and buy medicine and books and clothing and food... or just to spread their version of Christianity to people who are already Christians (but the "wrong" kind).

[Shahrazad]

I think the differences in the caliber of CPMs has a lot to do with the spectrum of midwifery regulations in the US. When I lived in Florida, CPMs were very much regulated (sometimes, in my opinion, over-regulated) and had to pass the NARM as well as complete a program of study at a direct-entry midwifery school. Now, living in Ohio, midwifery is alegal and they're not regulated at all. As a result, there have been issues with people who've never completed any real program/course of study, with no experience, and who've not had to pass a licensing exam working as midwives and there have been fatalities because they're not qualified to be doing so. 

 

There are certainly some CPMs that are better than some CNMs and there are CNMs who are better than CPMs. The real determinants are experience and skill which can be had by either. Ina May Gaskin is a CPM and probably one of the best midwives in the nation. One midwife I worked with who was truly extraordinary was a midwife from the UK and even though the course of study is more similar to a CNM, she was considered a CM or CPM when she came to the US. And of course there are some lay and traditional midwives in other countries whose statistics are downright extraordinary and who have so many years of experience and so many births under their belt that they can tell what is going on just by looking at a woman or touching her. A good example of this are the Angelina the Midwife or Angeline Partera videos on YouTube. (Disclaimer: there are also lay midwives in other countries who practice poor care and increase mortality rates because they do not know what to do at the sign of complication or rely on dangerous old-wives tales but, with any profession, there are always going to be good and bad).

 

[Guest]

I cannot stand the term 19 Kids and Counting. To me, it means producing kids has become an idol and it simply sounds very arrogant. I also agree that reality shows are harmful for children involved in them.

I have never watched any of the Duggar show and I don't have the desire to now.

ITA about the name. I found the title of their first book, "Twenty and Counting" equally off-putting, because it sounded like they were just trying to get to that nice, round, mind-boggling number 20. At the time, "20" was the count of the 18 kids and two parents.

[albeto.]

To the victor belong the spoils.

 

Catholics don't want or need them. Catholics and Orthodox are really tired of having various other groups come and try to proselytize them and their countries.

 

Surely the natives norther Europe, Africa, and the Americas felt the same way - they didn't want or need conversion to xianity.

 

Though I guess it would matter to me if money was being used to build schools and houses and buy medicine and books and clothing and food... or just to spread their version of Christianity to people who are already Christians (but the "wrong" kind).

 

Being the "wrong" kind of xian is no different than being a druid, follower of voodoo, or devout to Quetzalcoatl. Wrong is wrong, faith is faith, salvation is salvation, according to those who genuinely believe that. If these Duggars (and others like them) are successful in their goal, and the region of their mission is convinced to adopt their theological views, they will be recorded in local history as having done great things for their god. 

 

It's the same story we've seen for thousands of years, only it's less violent and gruesome on the whole than it used to be.