Halcyon Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We have had our rescued Jack Russel mutt for 3 years. He has always been anxious, had separation anxiety and didn't like strangers. He also nipped one of the gardeners about 5 months ago. We are taking him regularly to a behavioural vet (next visit is actually Wednesday) and he is on Trazadone for separation anxiety. Vet recommended always keeping him on a leash when he is out (we live on 3 acres, so this is unfortunate). TOday, the doorbell rang and DH opened the door without thinking. Our dog ran out and it was the mailman, a new mailman, and he started chasing him. He nipped him on the leg (bit him? The postman said it was not a big deal) before DH could corral him. Immediately, I knew this was a bad thing. We do our very very best to prevent this from happening, but he got out, and something bad happened. It could have been much much worse, I know that. 1/2 an hour later, the investigations unit from the Post Office comes over (again, I find it hard to believe these people are working on a Sunday) and DH talks to him. The guy seems pretty low key--hasn't seem the affected postal worker's injuries but says he needs to investigate when stuff like this happens. I basically started crying when DH told me what was happening. How can we ALWAYS be hypervigilant with this dog? We have kids come over, doors opening and closing, and accidents are going to happen. This could happen again, and it could be worse. What can I do? This dog is absolutely in LOVE with me, he is the sweetest most loyal guy you can imagine. I am just terrified that we will need to put him down, but OTOH, afraid of having to live for the next 10 years always anxious, always nervous, that we will make a mistake and he will escape and hurt someone. We have an appointment with the behavioural vet on Wednesday. We have mostly been dealing with separation anxiety, not the fear aggression, up til now because he urinates and defecates whenever we leave the house and is an anxious mess. WHen we are home, he is lovely, calm and sweet, cuddling with our new kittens and licking their heads protectively. Someone please tell me what's going to happen, what we should do. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 No advice, but hugs and hope that you can help him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF612 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I can't say what will happen but wanted to offer hugs and sympathy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I am very sorry. I don't know what to expect with the investigation. I would think the fact that you take him to a behhavioural vet would be facorable to you, because you are evidentally trying to improve his behaviour and increase his feelings of security. I am no expert on dog training, but would you be able to work on a sit-stay with him extensively, so that keeping him from bolting out the door is more likely? Hornblower may have some great ideas; she is my first thought for members here who know a lot about dogs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne115 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I'm so sorry. I am always afraid my dog will bite someone too, but she is the sweetest girl with me and my husband. I hope everything works out. Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 No answers, but so many hugs to you and your doggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We do not open our front door unless our fast and nervous dog is either in the back yard behind a closed and locked door, or in a crate (rare). Instead, we tell the person just a minute at the side window, and go around out the garage door or back gate. Our garage is accessed through our laundry room, with two doors between the kitchen and garage. We use them both to make sure he doesn't get out through the open garage. We call this the "dog lock". It slows us down answering the door, but they all know why we are doing it, because the second the doorbell rings he is on the other side of the door barking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I'm really sorry. I know I would be devastated too. I hope hornblower and paws4me will respond. I want to add that I have a rescue with lots of separation anxiety but he was older when we adopted him and had been trained in some areas. But he still bolted every time the door was open. I used a trick that was mentioned here but now can't remember the name. I think it was Total Recall but I had to adapt it slightly to suit my dog's temperament. I use treats because he is so food motivated and each time he comes back when I call he is guaranteed a treat, and then I slowly weaned it back to every 2 times and then every 4 times. Now I keep it between 2-4 times depending on the day and stimulus for him to run out. I practice often too. Slowly I think he got the idea that if he stayed close, he'd get a treat when I called? I don't know but it seems to have clicked for him. We can now keep our door open and he doesn't even peep out sometimes unless he sees a squirrel (still, I am always vigilant). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 okay i just ordered a sign for our front gate--one that says LEAVE ALL PACKAGES HERE (I don't need them coming up the driveway--nobody takes anything in our neighbourhood) and BEWARE OF DOG. Ugh. Heartbroken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We did what laundrycrisis did for a while until my DH got sick of it and said we can't let the dog's behavior control our lives. I would have been happy to let our dog control our lives lol but not DH, so we ended up using the recall trick. It could also be the breed. Mine is a doxie mix and doxies are reputed to not be as hyper as terriers but can be very strong willed vs obedient. You might have to find something breed-specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Huge :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:, Halcyon. Our last dog, a rescued Chi/terrier mix, had fear and aggression problems. We went to a behaviorist, hired a trainer, and tried meds. In the end, it was either euthanasia or disarming surgery, as he was becoming increasingly aggressive towards one family member. We chose disarming surgery and had all his teeth removed except his back molars. We drove out of state to a very experienced veterinary dentist. The surgery saved his life, as he was no longer able to seriously injure anyone. Obviously this would be a very last resort. Hoping others will have good suggestions for you. Please keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We have had our rescued Jack Russel mutt for 3 years. He has always been anxious, had separation anxiety and didn't like strangers. He also nipped one of the gardeners about 5 months ago. We are taking him regularly to a behavioural vet (next visit is actually Wednesday) and he is on Trazadone for separation anxiety. Vet recommended always keeping him on a leash when he is out (we live on 3 acres, so this is unfortunate). TOday, the doorbell rang and DH opened the door without thinking. Our dog ran out and it was the mailman, a new mailman, and he started chasing him. He nipped him on the leg (bit him? The postman said it was not a big deal) before DH could corral him. Immediately, I knew this was a bad thing. We do our very very best to prevent this from happening, but he got out, and something bad happened. It could have been much much worse, I know that. 1/2 an hour later, the investigations unit from the Post Office comes over (again, I find it hard to believe these people are working on a Sunday) and DH talks to him. The guy seems pretty low key--hasn't seem the affected postal worker's injuries but says he needs to investigate when stuff like this happens. I basically started crying when DH told me what was happening. How can we ALWAYS be hypervigilant with this dog? We have kids come over, doors opening and closing, and accidents are going to happen. This could happen again, and it could be worse. What can I do? This dog is absolutely in LOVE with me, he is the sweetest most loyal guy you can imagine. I am just terrified that we will need to put him down, but OTOH, afraid of having to live for the next 10 years always anxious, always nervous, that we will make a mistake and he will escape and hurt someone. We have an appointment with the behavioural vet on Wednesday. We have mostly been dealing with separation anxiety, not the fear aggression, up til now because he urinates and defecates whenever we leave the house and is an anxious mess. WHen we are home, he is lovely, calm and sweet, cuddling with our new kittens and licking their heads protectively. Someone please tell me what's going to happen, what we should do. Please. :grouphug: :grouphug: We had to face a similar situation when our rescue accidentally got out and attacked a neighbors dog. We had been working with a private trainer who deals with doggy aggression, but that incident was the last straw. Like you, I just couldn't guarantee that in 10yrs or so she would never ever accidentally escape and we just *knew* the potential for killing a little doggy (we have lots of little dogs on our street) was just too high. I was just heart-sick, but I was also off the scale anxious too. I think my kids thought I was going to lose it, I was that uptight and hyper about her. Like yours, our doggy was perfect in the house, but when she saw another dog it was like Mr. Hyde came out. We could not get through to her. We ended up giving her back to the rescue, but we did not have our doggy nearly as long as you. But, I still felt awful for her. She just didn't seem to get that what she did was really, really wrong. I contacted the rescue about 2 weeks after we handed her back in and they had adopted her over to a GSD Rescue with people very well trained to deal with difficult cases. I was so relieved, because in all other ways she was a good dog. We were just not the right owners for her. Can you call/email the behavioral Vet? I would definitely contact them and tell them exactly what happened and ask for advice. I did this. It was taken very seriously by our dog trainer. When we finally decided to give her back up she was very supportive. Good luck and lots of hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Have you thought about putting an invisible fence in your house? This way the dog is restricted to certain areas only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Our friends had a JRT, and tried all sorts of things. They eventually ended up using a shock collar to interrupt/redirect when the dog went "off the rails" and could not be reached via voice command, as a last resort before euthanasia. We moved away many years ago, but I think that dog is now an old lady dog and still with them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Not sure what will happen, but wanted to send you hugs. :grouphug: Hope your behavioral vet can come up with some constructive ideas for your little guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Thanks all. I have put up signs inside ALL our doors to remind our children to NOT OPEN THE DOOR for anyone unless he is secured. It's a PITA, particularly for my not-particularly-dog-loving DH but I hope it helps us all remember. We have tried shock collars but could never find the darn remote fast enough when an incident was about to happen. We bought a very expensive wifi electric fence which promptly broke after 1 month. We may look into an underground fence, but that won't help if people come IN to the property, kiwm? It will just prevent him from going out. I hope the behavioral vet has some ideas. I KNOW she will say "he needs to be on a leash" but that doesn't address the problem of accidental escaping, which is bound to happen, occasionally, kwim, especially with kids in teh house, friends coming and going....I just don't see how we can completely prevent it or assure that it will NEVER happen again. So anxious about this, and my anxiety has been ongoing for a while...i just knew something like this would happen sooner or later. He knows something is up because he is pressing his entire body against my leg as i sit here typing. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 He knows something is up because he is pressing his entire body against my leg as i sit here typing. :( Poor little guy. Dogs are very perceptive. He is fortunate to be with someone who loves him so much. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 does anyone here think we will have to euthanize him? this is my worst fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 does anyone here think we will have to euthanize him? this is my worst fear. For nipping a postman? I really doubt it, especially since the postal worker didn't seem too upset and the investigator was low key. If your dog had seriously injured a child or killed another dog, then you might need to worry more about that. Even in those circumstances you would have the right to due process to attempt to stop the euthanasia. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 How bad were the bites? Were police reports filed? Is he up to date on shots? Has the county health department gotten involved and given you any warnings? An extended family member had a rescued shepherd that she put down for biting last year. She voluntarily did so after dog started growling at children in the family and tried to bite a small child (but missed). I think the bigger question is, do you really want to be responsible for owning a dog that will attack at the slightest opportunity? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitestavern Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I did behavioral therapy through Tufts with my Lhasa Apso. Unfortunately it really didn't work. I couldn't bear to get rid of him though. He lived 13 years, 13 years of me being very vigilant. Hugs. I really hope your therapy works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 does anyone here think we will have to euthanize him? this is my worst fear. First offence? No. Eventually? possibly. How limiting would it be for you to wear him on a leash around the waist in the house? If he is beside you all of the time anyway, it might not be that bad. Good luck training your family to secure dog before door. It is a hard task. Seems like it should be easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 How bad were the bites? Were police reports filed? Is he up to date on shots? Has the county health department gotten involved and given you any warnings? An extended family member had a rescued shepherd that she put down for biting last year. She voluntarily did so after dog started growling at children in the family and tried to bite a small child (but missed). I think the bigger question is, do you really want to be responsible for owning a dog that will attack at the slightest opportunity? One nip- broke skin but not bad according to dh and according to postman, who said it was no big deal.. No police reports. Up to date on shots. No warnings yet--only happened this morning. As to the bigger question--well, he doesn't attack at "the slightest" opportunity-he has run after strangers on 4 occasions in 3 years--not good at all, but not constant. He loves visitors as long as he has a chance to greet them--our dishwasher repairman, who has come three times, is very big and "scary" looking but he always greets the dogs and says "Hi there!" and the dog absolutely loves him--licks him like crazy, very happy to be around him. It's just when something is unexpected and there is no "chance" to introduce him. So i hear you--this is causing me a lot of worry--do we want to manage this for 10 more years, CAN my family do this (I certainly can be vigilant, but kids and DH not so much, although after this incident you can bet that they will be very careful). Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 does anyone here think we will have to euthanize him? this is my worst fear. No, I do not see that. It doesn't sound like an injuring bite. Our town has a 3 strikes policy. Our neighbors had a pit bull who would run through their screen door and attack leashed dogs walking by with their people. It took three such attacks before they took that dog....and the attacked dogs were hurt badly enough to need immediate care. I can't see a small terrier who nipped at the mail carrier in the same category. Especially since you were already seeking training, and now you have taken another step with the signs....you are a responsible owner. I would be afraid too, but I think he will be fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 How bad were the bites? Were police reports filed? Is he up to date on shots? Has the county health department gotten involved and given you any warnings? An extended family member had a rescued shepherd that she put down for biting last year. She voluntarily did so after dog started growling at children in the family and tried to bite a small child (but missed). I think the bigger question is, do you really want to be responsible for owning a dog that will attack at the slightest opportunity? This. Get rid of the dog. The risk isn't worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 No, I do not see that. It doesn't sound like an injuring bite. Our town has a 3 strikes policy. Our neighbors had a pit bull who would run through their screen door and attack leashed dogs walking by with their people. It took three such attacks before they took that dog....and the attacked dogs were hurt badly enough to need immediate care. I can't see a small terrier who nipped at the mail carrier in the same category. Especially since you were already seeking training, and now you have taken another step with the signs....you are a responsible owner. I would be afraid too, but I think he will be fine. Over 30 states have strict liability laws, where you are responsible for a dog bite, period. Most others have the 1-bite rule and a few have some hybrid. I can't imagine anywhere that does nothing about it until the third bite. An owner that kept a dog after bite 1 is very irresponsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom25girls Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I'm so sorry. Sending hugs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne115 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Over 30 states have strict liability laws, where you are responsible for a dog bite, period. Most others have the 1-bite rule and a few have some hybrid. I can't imagine anywhere that does nothing about it until the third bite. An owner that kept a dog after bite 1 is very irresponsible. I think your last statement is very harsh. Suzanne 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 does anyone here think we will have to euthanize him? this is my worst fear. I wouldn't think so just for this offense. The post office jumped to investigate probably because it's a worker's comp claim if the guy misses work...and also because the guy is in a union and it's just standard policy to investigate quickly. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 How long have you been working with the behaviorist? How long has he been on the trazadone? Is that the only drug that's been tried? I'm certainly no expert, but I always thought trazadone was typically given in conjunction with other drugs. I found this AVMA article that seems to support that. I don't think you're at a place right now where you HAVE to make a choice. It depends on your local/state laws, but I kind of doubt anything serious will come of this incident. I'm guessing mostly they wanted to make sure your dog us up to date on his rabies vaccination? Talk to the behaviorist. See what she says about other medications -- either something totally different or adding something along with the trazadone. I've seen the right medication work wonders for some dogs. There are indoor invisible fences (here and here are examples). You might consider trying one of those to block his access to the outside door(s). If it really comes down to it (versus euthanasia), I think it might be worth considering what MercyA chose for her dog. Whether or not you want to manage this dog for another ten years -- None of us can answer that for you. If you decide you don't want to, I for one wouldn't blame you. Managing a dog for a decade or more isn't a small thing. The thing that would worry me the most is how does he react when your kids have friends over? But first what you need to do is talk to the behaviorist. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I can't imagine anywhere that does nothing about it until the third bite. An owner that kept a dog after bite 1 is very irresponsible. This. Get rid of the dog. The risk isn't worth it. What do you mean by "get rid of the dog?" A dog with a history of aggression will almost certainly be put down if he is taken to a shelter. Finding a different home for the dog will likely just pass the problem onto someone else and would certainly increase the dog's anxiety problem. Are you advocating euthanizing every dog that has bitten someone once? There are ways to deal with these situations. Please keep in mind that for some of us, these are loved family members. ETA: I fully recognize that even the most loving families may sometimes find it necessary to choose euthanasia. However, I have no respect for people who foist that responsibility onto someone else. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Honestly I think a lot of little terriers would not be trustworthy in that situation. Someone at the front door seems threatening. It does not mean that if they got loose, they would go on a rampage looking for people to attack. If he is fine with members of your household and with guests who have been invited in, I would not give up on your dog. I would keep going with the training, and set up a plan for how you will control him when someone needs to answer the door. We have a crate near the front door in case I do need to open it, and our dog has been trained to cooperate with getting in there when it's necessary. If he was lunging at family members or visitors in your home, that would be a different situation. A lot of little dogs are freaky about the front door. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Do you have a fenced yard? You need to be prepared to quarantine your dog for 10 days, even with proof of a rabies vaccination. I had a dachshund nip my brother on the finger. I told him to go get antibiotics, and the doctor reported the incident to animal control. They came to met the dog and were licked to death. My brother thinks he scared him, but it was almost twenty years ago, so I don't really remember. Animal control had us keep him in the house or fenced yard for ten days and then rechecked him. My dog never nipped anyone again, and animal control was not worried about it at all. We had the dog for 11 more years before he died. If we hadn't had a fenced yard, they would have taken him for 10 days. Best of luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Also- we used to have a baby gate at the front door. It was a pain, but prevented escapes. Your dog might jump higher than dachshunds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Over 30 states have strict liability laws, where you are responsible for a dog bite, period. Most others have the 1-bite rule and a few have some hybrid. I can't imagine anywhere that does nothing about it until the third bite. An owner that kept a dog after bite 1 is very irresponsible. Every dog has the potential to bite. Every single dog. We don't know this dog. Halcyon is, by all accounts, a very dedicated and responsible animal owner, trying very hard to do the right thing. Getting rid of the dog is not necessarily the right thing (and Halcyon will have to be the final decision-maker there, not the internet). You don't know that, and calling her "very irresponsible" is not only ridiculous, it's completely unnecessary. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Is it possible to put a dog crate at the front door - to put the dog in each and every time the door will be opened? Especially in unexpected doorbell situations when the dog will head right to the door. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 All dogs need to be trained in "bite inhibition." This is the single most important part of a puppy's education and is shockingly overlooked by most dog owners. Dogs actively and consistently trained in bite inhibition almost never bite people. Halcyon, Jack Russells require massive amounts of exercise. It is essential they are run every day. Without proper (read extensive) exercise any mental issues they may have will be exacerbated greatly. Seek whatever drug therapy is available, but vigorious daily (or twice daily) exercise is vital for Jack Russells. You can NOT walk them enough to get sufficient exercise. If the dog can not be trusted off-leash (which sounds like the case) I'd suggest getting a bike leash contraction ("Springer" is the best brand) that would allow you to run the dog off a bike. Otherwise the dog will not the sufficiently exercised, and the "on-leash" rule will become part of making the problem even worse. It is late to start bite inhibition training. But better late than never. Exercise is vital. More than you might realize. I can't emphasize this enough with a JRT. They NEED TO RUN (not walk) daily. A lot. And hard. It would change the dog. Here is a video by the late Dr Sophia Yin, a great favorite of Hornblowers, who passed recently (and far too young). In the video she uses counter conditioning with a Jack Russell to reduce biting behavior http://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/counter-conditioning_a_dog_to_blowing_in_face 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thank you SPy Car. I am ordering one of those bike leash contractions right now. It is exceedingly hot in FLorida for most of the summer (in excess of 95 degrees where we live) but it is beginning to cool down and I will do this asap. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thank you SPy Car. I am ordering one of those bike leash contractions right now. It is exceedingly hot in FLorida for most of the summer (in excess of 95 degrees where we live) but it is beginning to cool down and I will do this asap. Thank you. There are some cheaper brands. I can't say one way or another on those (don't know). I sincerely believe that regular vigorous exercise will transform the dog. JRTs need this, more than most dogs (despite their pint-size). It is nice to have a horse when one owns a JRT. A bike is a good second choice. Best wishes Halcyon. I'd like to hear how it goes. I also like the idea of Fraidycat's to have a crate by the door. Having this work best would take a lot of positive training (a lot), including rewarding going in the crate and testing with someone ringing the door/knocking, etc. Training to sit on a mat near the door is another option, but is a higher order of training with more risk of failure. All the best, Bill 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastianCat Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thank you SPy Car. I am ordering one of those bike leash contractions right now. It is exceedingly hot in FLorida for most of the summer (in excess of 95 degrees where we live) but it is beginning to cool down and I will do this asap. Thank you. I live in Florida too and we exercise our miniature schnauzer inside during the summer when it's too hot outside or during the torrential rains that we've had this year. I can tell a huge difference in her behavior when she's been chasing a ball (or chasing my 13 year old son, her other favorite) for 20-30 minutes. It doesn't hurt the 13 year old, either. I think others have given you excellent suggestions. If I was in the same situation with my dog, who is very attached to me, she would be worth the trouble of finding the right meds and intense training to keep her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livetoread Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 What was the circumstance when he bit the gardener five months ago? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 All dogs need to be trained in "bite inhibition." This is the single most important part of a puppy's education and is shockingly overlooked by most dog owners. Dogs actively and consistently trained in bite inhibition almost never bite people. Halcyon, Jack Russells require massive amounts of exercise. It is essential they are run every day. Without proper (read extensive) exercise any mental issues they may have will be exacerbated greatly. Seek whatever drug therapy is available, but vigorious daily (or twice daily) exercise is vital for Jack Russells. You can NOT walk them enough to get sufficient exercise. If the dog can not be trusted off-leash (which sounds like the case) I'd suggest getting a bike leash contraction ("Springer" is the best brand) that would allow you to run the dog off a bike. Otherwise the dog will not the sufficiently exercised, and the "on-leash" rule will become part of making the problem even worse. It is late to start bite inhibition training. But better late than never. Exercise is vital. More than you might realize. I can't emphasize this enough with a JRT. They NEED TO RUN (not walk) daily. A lot. And hard. It would change the dog. Here is a video by the late Dr Sophia Yin, a great favorite of Hornblowers, who passed recently (and far too young). In the video she uses counter conditioning with a Jack Russell to reduce biting behavior http://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/counter-conditioning_a_dog_to_blowing_in_face So I have a question. We have a nearly 5 month old Border Collie, sweet as can be to us, but she does not like other people. We are not around other people much -- we live on a large lot in the country. Mostly we only have problems with her when she goes to the vets, and then when we're camping because we are around other people. We don't have a lot of friends and acquaintances to help us socialize her. Anyhow, I watched the video above, but I'm not sure how we could get something like that to work in our situation, since she would never be aggressive towards us, and it's not like we can tell someone else, "Hey, can you come over and try to help us train our dog not to bite you." I'd ask my sister but she's pregnant, so probably not a good idea. She hasn't seen the pup in a couple of months, anyway, so I'm not sure how the dog would react to her now. When she met the puppy previously, she was able to win her over with some treats. The puppy has not yet bitten anyone, and I don't know if she would, but she has a mean bark and she lunges at people ferociously. We have to put a muzzle on her at the vet's. The vet suggested that next time we bring her in, that we don't go into the exam room with her, to see if she is only acting that unfriendly when she is around us in protection mode. Still, even if that's the case, that doesn't solve our problem when we are camping or have the dog out on a leash. And how does one balance between keeping a dog for some protection out in the country, and having that same dog be friendly to others? We met her dad, and he was a very, sweet, friendly dog -- he'd always come up to my husband for pats and scratches. The mom was on site as well, but she was in a fenced off area with the pups, so we didn't get to know her in the same way. The other Border Collies on site were so well-behaved and trained. They would even respond to hand commands from the owner. So I tend to think this is a problem with something we're doing, and not with the dog herself. Oh, and the puppy is extremely cute (seriously!), which compounds our problem because when we are out in public, people always want to come up and pet her, and she will have none of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 So I have a question. We have a nearly 5 month old Border Collie, sweet as can be to us, but she does not like other people. We are not around other people much -- we live on a large lot in the country. Mostly we only have problems with her when she goes to the vets, and then when we're camping because we are around other people. We don't have a lot of friends and acquaintances to help us socialize her. Anyhow, I watched the video above, but I'm not sure how we could get something like that to work in our situation, since she would never be aggressive towards us, and it's not like we can tell someone else, "Hey, can you come over and try to help us train our dog not to bite you." I'd ask my sister but she's pregnant, so probably not a good idea. She hasn't seen the pup in a couple of months, anyway, so I'm not sure how the dog would react to her now. When she met the puppy previously, she was able to win her over with some treats. The puppy has not yet bitten anyone, and I don't know if she would, but she has a mean bark and she lunges at people ferociously. We have to put a muzzle on her at the vet's. The vet suggested that next time we bring her in, that we don't go into the exam room with her, to see if she is only acting that unfriendly when she is around us in protection mode. Still, even if that's the case, that doesn't solve our problem when we are camping or have the dog out on a leash. And how does one balance between keeping a dog for some protection out in the country, and having that same dog be friendly to others? We met her dad, and he was a very, sweet, friendly dog -- he'd always come up to my husband for pats and scratches. The mom was on site as well, but she was in a fenced off area with the pups, so we didn't get to know her in the same way. The other Border Collies on site were so well-behaved and trained. They would even respond to hand commands from the owner. So I tend to think this is a problem with something we're doing, and not with the dog herself. Oh, and the puppy is extremely cute (seriously!), which compounds our problem because when we are out in public, people always want to come up and pet her, and she will have none of it. Your post sends up all sorts of red flags to me. The behavior you describe isn't typical of a puppy who isn't yet five months old. Most young puppies (and grown dogs) aren't displaying protectiveness when they act as your puppy is. Or if it is it's a bad form that you don't want. At best your very young (still a baby) puppy is saying "this person is mine and I don't want you (vet or other person) around my possession." It's not protective any more than a three-year old child saying to another one "No! That's my toy! You can't have it!" is being protective. Another possibility is that it's fear related. Unfortunately for dogs, many people commonly mistake a fear response for aggression. A well trained, stable dog--the kind of dog who would protect you if a true need arose--is not typically the type of dog who reacts when the situation doesn't warrant it. I really think you need to get a trainer in to see your pup (or, even better, a veterinary behaviorist like Halcyon is seeing). Your pup's breeder may be another good source of advice. You need someone knowledgeable who can see your pup in action in person. Whatever is going on--whether it's fear or possession aggression, the level of aggression you describe isn't normal at all for puppies that age, and something you need to be very proactively working on to extinguish before the pup gets any older. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 My brother had a dog that bit. The first time it was recorded as a dangerous dog - meaning high fence at home and muzzle and lead in public. The second time it was put down. It it feasible to simply have it on a chain before you open the door? You have to be absolutely sure you can prevent it happening again if you don't want to have to give the dog up or have it euthanised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 You might also need some training--you might be sending out vibes that the dog is picking up on. You might be acting nervous when the doorbell rings because you are worrying about the dog and he thinks there is something to worry about on the other side of the door and then he tries to protect you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 What was the circumstance when he bit the gardener five months ago? Same situation. I didn't realize the gardeners were even at the house, and I wasn't vigilant--I had a bag of garbage in my hand, opened the front door to bring the garbage out and he slipped out and ran directly towards the gardener. He had a big wide-brimmed hat on and a leaf blower which i thought was the trigger (after the fact, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 My brother had a dog that bit. The first time it was recorded as a dangerous dog - meaning high fence at home and muzzle and lead in public. The second time it was put down. It it feasible to simply have it on a chain before you open the door? You have to be absolutely sure you can prevent it happening again if you don't want to have to give the dog up or have it euthanised. Yes. I have a LARGE sign on the inside of the door to remind everyone (dh and kids, primarily) to NEVER open the door unless he is on a leash or in the downstairs bathroom with the door shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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