Christian response please

[JadeOrchidSong]

Christians, I would like your view on this. Thank you! Please do not quote.

 

ETA: My boys and a friend's daughter started martial arts class. Because of the bows, my friend googled and found some articles about martial arts and religion. I have never encountered this. So Christians, what is your view? I deleted the article link.

I have no problem with martial arts myself because I practiced when I was young and as far as my experience goes, nothing religion is involved and it is a pure way of exercise.

 

Update: My boys like MA a lot after completing 6 lessons and we will get membership for them to continue with the class after the 4 more lessons included in this groupon deal.

[SKL]

Hmm!

 

There will always be people trying to make Christians (and followers of other faiths) afraid for the integrity of their souls.  My response is that I'm not afraid.  IMO that is superstition.  If the girl chooses to quit over that, so be it, but personally I'd just say "that was an interesting read, but my soul is not so fragile that I worry about such things."  Similar comment on Yoga, Harry Potter, etc.  To a more mature person, I might add that I believe Jesus studied Eastern religions and, far from rejecting the underlying ideals, incorporated some of them into his teachings.  That is one of the reasons why the old testament teachings are so different from the new testament ones.

[Slache]

The religion behind most martial arts is false and I feel that it is extremely dangerous to expose our children to wordliness like that. However most martial arts classes do not reflect the religion so much as the art. I'm definitely more on the fundamental side of Christianity but I intend on enrolling my son in martial arts soon.

[TechWife]

Here is another article for her to consider: 

http://www.equip.org/article/should-a-christian-practice-the-martial-arts/

 

I don't think karate is a religion. I do think participation in the martial arts for a Christian, it is a matter of conscience. A lot would depend on who the instructor is and the content of the course.  If she is uncertain, it might be best for her not to participate. 

 

We chose not to have our son participate in martial arts because we wanted to disciple him in Christianity and didn't want to muddy the waters. 

[Slache]

Lying is a sin. Not practicing martial arts is a conviction. Pushing your convictions on someone else is legalism.

[Tiberia]

My daughter and I do tae Kwon do at the local YMCA. We love it. I'm not in fear that the history or foundations of eastern martial arts are a danger to my soul or beliefs. Most of so-called pagan stuff is just based on people honestly searching for meaning and dignity in their lives. I'm ok with that. I respect that. I can agree and connect with a lot of the searching, and I like having a basis for friendship with a diverse crowd of folks.

 

Tae Kwon do connects us to other people, and I believe in going where the people are and forming relationships with people, not judging every little thing that seems foreign or non-Christian to western Americans. However, I also won't try to talk someone into doing martial arts if they really struggle with this. Do what you feel is best, but don't allow a friend's paranoia to influence you.

 

Just my opinion. Did I mention we love the class?!

[Guest]

Our music director and deacon is a TKD instructor and uses the church as one of his studios. It's an area of liberty, plain and simple, and unlike yoga I don't think a solid case can be made for any religious invocation by use of the forms.

[TechWife]

To a more mature person, I might add that I believe Jesus studied Eastern religions and, far from rejecting the underlying ideals, incorporated some of them into his teachings.  That is one of the reasons why the old testament teachings are so different from the new testament ones.

 

This is not correct information. Sorry, it just isn't. 

[PrincessMommy]

I've heard these before... they seem to go along with LOTR's and Harry Potter are of the devil and such.

 

While there may be a religious aspect to some Karate/Jujitsu or other types of martial arts, it was not evident in the studio my kids were involved with.  Americanized Karate is different in the same way Americanized Yoga seems different.   It was about self-discipline and learning the moves to protect yourself.  It was a great self-esteem booster for my daughter too. 

 

I think some of the instructors took the spiritual stuff more seriously- at least one traveled to Asia to study... but it did not seem to push any of that in his classes.  

 

I'm a Christian,  of the Eastern Orthodox stripe, and our spirituality is actually a little more harmonious with Eastern Religions than it is with Western Protestantism, so I wouldn't have a problem just Christianizing what my kids might have learned (which they never did at Karate class anyways).  

[Ms.Ivy]

Nearly every culture has a form of martial art, and since physical discipline is closely linked to spiritual discipline, even in Christianity, it shouldn't be a surprise that a culture's martial art and religion are closely linked.  That doesn't mean we can't separate them and use what we want.  This is similar to classical education -- we study the Greek language and Greek history, and "use" what we want from them in our own way of life.  

There are many people who are superstitious and believe that if something has a pagan origin, it is inherently pagan and will make you turn into a pagan.  But it's simply not true that all things that pagans do are pagan.  Bill Gothard taught that drum beats were inherently evil because African pagans used them for demonic purposes.  Gary North says that a Christian classical education will turn your kids into homosexuals because some of the Greeks practiced homosexual pedophilia.  I have a friend who is adamant that whenever a Harry Potter movie came out in theaters, evil spirits fell over our city and gave her bad dreams.  But then we have in the book of Revelation the warning to the church in Pergamos that they were putting a stumbling block before others to eat food sacrificed to idols.  Paul was pretty clear that this was a matter of conscience.  So we have to be careful that if something bothers a Christian's conscience, they should not participate.  

 

Our family is pretty big into mixed martial arts.  Some Christians think that's weird.  Can't really put our family into a "box."  lol

[Guest]

To me, it feels like one more way to show what a much better Christian you are. Blech.

[8circles]

I think making martial arts about religion makes as much sense as making decluttering about being a monk.

[Heatherwith4]

It would just never even cross my mind....

[Guest]

Funny story--

 

A woman was concerned about the spirituality of our TKD class so she was asking Master P lots of questions.

 

Her - "You don't do any kind of levitation in the classes, do you?"

Master P - "Ma'am??"

Her - "You know, like sitting around with your legs crossed and thinking."

Master P - "No, we don't do anything like that here."

[Liz CA]

I think it all comes down to the individual and his heart and intentions.

If I enroll in Karate to acquire self defense skills, I am focusing on the skills and nothing else. I am not immersing my mind and heart in whatever principles or philosophy someone else may attach to it.

 

I do Yoga poses to stretch my old back and muscles and reduce pain. I don't feel I am less of a Christian for doing so because I concentrate on my improved agility and keeping my body limber. I do not chant or meditate while doing Yoga stretches.

[Random]

Here is another article for her to consider: 

http://www.equip.org/article/should-a-christian-practice-the-martial-arts/

 

I don't think karate is a religion. I do think participation in the martial arts for a Christian, it is a matter of conscience. A lot would depend on who the instructor is and the content of the course.  If she is uncertain, it might be best for her not to participate. 

 

We chose not to have our son participate in martial arts because we wanted to disciple him in Christianity and didn't want to muddy the waters. 

 

I really appreciate the article you linked. 

 

I think it's imperative that Christians are discerning about which activities they participate in.  For most activities, it is a matter of conscience.  I don't like how the word "legalism" is thrown around when someone (after researching) decides against a popular activity.

 

Whether we participated in a martial arts class would depend heavily on the type of art and we'd have to know the instructor well.  Not because we are fearful, weak, silly, legalistic, have a superiority complex, or anything like that. 

[PrincessMommy]

I think it all comes down to the individual and his heart and intentions.

If I enroll in Karate to acquire self defense skills, I am focusing on the skills and nothing else. I am not immersing my mind and heart in whatever principles or philosophy someone else may attach to it.

 

I do Yoga poses to stretch my old back and muscles and reduce pain. I don't feel I am less of a Christian for doing so because I concentrate on my improved agility and keeping my body limber. I do not chant or meditate while doing Yoga stretches.

 

I think that is a good point.  If someone is really looking for the spiritual side of MA they would probably keep looking for the right studio until he/she found what they were looking for. 

 

 

[Little Nyssa]

To me, it would really depend on the local studio. I would want to talk with the instructor and observe some classes before I made a decision. Likely it would turn out to be fine.

[Truscifi]

I've never understood how people can be so sure their way is the one true, right way and insist it is so clear and obvious, and yet also be so afraid that any exposure to other ways of thinking will prevent people from seeing the truth of their way. That seems so strange to me.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Growing up in Japan, I've seen people practice karate as a way of life and religion.  And I've seen people practice is as a sport.  Which way you approach it depends on your own mental connection and thoughts as well as the master and dojo that is presenting it.  

 

Ds takes taekwando.  Specifically, his school practices and teaches WTF (World Taekwando Federation) style which is specifically promoted as a sport and is the style used in the Olympics,  

 

I feel like this is a "meat offered to idols" type of  decision for Christians.  Go with your conscience but do not pressure someone else to follow your conscience instead of their own.  

[Liz CA]

Here is another article for her to consider: 

http://www.equip.org/article/should-a-christian-practice-the-martial-arts/

 

I don't think karate is a religion. I do think participation in the martial arts for a Christian, it is a matter of conscience. A lot would depend on who the instructor is and the content of the course.  If she is uncertain, it might be best for her not to participate. 

 

We chose not to have our son participate in martial arts because we wanted to disciple him in Christianity and didn't want to muddy the waters. 

 

I liked the article and found the whole website interesting and I am in total support of cautioning against the "genetic fallacy" argument.

 

As I am not knowledgeable on the various forms of martial arts I have always viewed martial arts in general as a form of self defense and not a form of spiritual expression.

[bolt.]

Wow. I read that whole thing. It took me a while. Here is my Bible-College-Prof response. Then I will go back and read the previous posts.

1. The etymology of foreign words probably has very little to do with your son’s actual experience in a contemporary children’s martial arts program.
2. Many sports and/or other physical disciplines contain the idea of focus, a lack of distraction, and reliance on muscle memory. This might be communicated through the idea of “emptiness†or inner stillness. There is no harm in this imagery or vocabulary.
3. Yes, it is possible to spiritualize martial arts, and many do – including the authors of the quoted manuals. Many also do not spiritualize it. There is a difference between a mental discipline and a spiritual experience. Classes can (and should) support mental discipline during sport, but spirituality is not inherently a part of the activity unless the students or instructors make it so.

Example: In the military, all members remove their head-dress during a public prayer. All members are taking the ‘reverent’ action,but not all members are praying. Similarly, some members of a martial arts class may be doing something spiritual: but those inward realities are not inherently connected to the martial art itself. Taking off a hat is not ‘actually’ a Christian prayer. Doing martial arts in not ‘actually’ a mystical activity either.

1. Bowing is an act of respect, not worship. Students do not worship their instructors, nor the room they are instructed in: they are expected to respect both. This is not idolatry. There is a difference between “bowing down†(worshipful prostration) and bowing by bending at the waist (a respectful greeting). The presence of an idol or shrine does not mean that the room-respecting bow is inherently an act of worship. If a student isn’t worshiping, the movement of their head does not automatically become ‘worship’ because of the presence of an idol. An idol is ‘nothing’ except to those people who are using it for idolatry.
2. The training room and the worship room of a temple are the same room for the same reason that schools tend to hold chapel in the gymnasium: both activities require a large open space. It’s not always practical to build two rooms of similar dimensions in order to worship in one and practice sport in another.
3. The linguistic connection between spirit, breath, life-energy, the spiritual centre of a person, and the creative activity of God in the world – are all found in the Bible. In the Old Testament the word is Ru’ah. The fact that another language uses another word for this (Ki) does not mean that they are catastrophically wrong in how they are describing human nature.
4. Paganism is not ‘crass’ (nor is this type of religion and culture, where it is expressed, actually correctly called ‘paganism’). This error reveals a degree of cultural superiority in the attitude of the author.
5. The “values†listed are quite neutral, and completely compatible with Christian values. Respect for life, respect for nature, the capacity for stillness / non-action, moderation and balance, education for training character, respect for elders and for society, supernatural spirituality and enlightenment. – I can easily substantiate any of these from the Bible.
6. Christianity is an Eastern religion. Being ‘western’ is actually something that makes Christian religious experiences and expression difficult for contemporary believers. The author’s presumptive resistance to the idea that an ‘eastern’ worldview is less compatible with Christianity than a ‘western’ one is both false and (again) an indication of cultural supremacy as his/her underlying objection to martial arts.
7. “Altered states of consciousness†are a natural function of the human brain. Mediation (‘eastern’ or otherwise) is no more spiritually dangerous than falling asleep. (“The Devil†cannot “invade†believers at any time.) Christian meditation (commanded by the Bible) may not be of quite the ‘far east’ flavour, but it is certainly an altered state of consciousness based on an ‘eastern’ mystical tradition, including a sense of ‘emptiness’.
8. The Bible affirms the reality of divination, supernatural human abilities (spiritual gifts), miracles, and divine intervention. It is ‘western’ thought that deems these to be pretty-much superstition, not Christian thought. The Bible’s teaching focuses on what is or isn’t appropriate about a believer’s choices regarding the supernatural – not the denial of the supernatural through a rationalistic worldview.
9. I don’t think the Bible actually says that believers are “not allowed to go into a place where idol worship is taking place†– participation is idolatry if the believer worships, not if the believer is present. If the believer ‘dismisses the idol as no god at all’ the believer is not worshiping. The Corinthian passage is being misinterpreted.
10. “Oaths†as a whole are a problem in the Bible: which seems to focus on what ‘thing’ is being ‘sworn by’. However, among people who are ok with national pledges, swearing in court, and making the ‘boy scout promise’ – as long as the content of any recited ‘oath’ is not objectionable, and no object is ‘sworn by’ there is no reason to object to the oath (unless one objects to all oaths).

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thank you, bolt.

[JadeOrchidSong]

OP here again.

Let me first clarify that my friend only sent me the link and doesn't say anything negative about MA. Her daughter really enjoys the class! Please leave her out of your comment. I grew up practicing martial arts and am thrilled dc are now interested in it and we will continue.

 

Dc's previous piano teacher from Taiwan and dh both ask dc to bow and say "thank you, teacher" at the end of each lesson.

Bowing to me is showing respect, not worship. I have zero problem with it. In fact, I really appreciate teachers make students bow to them.

[Tiberia]

Sorry I characterized your friend's position as paranoia in my post. I was making a judgement that is unsupported in your OP. My apologies. Thanks for the thread; it's interesting.

[Aura]

This is not correct information. Sorry, it just isn't. 

 And you would know...how?

 

She said SHE BELIEVES, so it her belief and her opinion. She's not asking anyone to agree with her, just giving her view. You are giving no more information than her. No facts. No research. But you don't state it is as your opinion. You just slam her. I find that extremely rude.

[TechWife]

Hmm!

 

There will always be people trying to make Christians (and followers of other faiths) afraid for the integrity of their souls.  My response is that I'm not afraid.  IMO that is superstition.  If the girl chooses to quit over that, so be it, but personally I'd just say "that was an interesting read, but my soul is not so fragile that I worry about such things."  Similar comment on Yoga, Harry Potter, etc.  To a more mature person, I might add that I believe Jesus studied Eastern religions and, far from rejecting the underlying ideals, incorporated some of them into his teachings.  That is one of the reasons why the old testament teachings are so different from the new testament ones.

 

 

This is not correct information. Sorry, it just isn't. 

 

 

 And you would know...how?

 

She said SHE BELIEVES, so it her belief and her opinion. She's not asking anyone to agree with her, just giving her view. You are giving no more information than her. No facts. No research. But you don't state it is as your opinion. You just slam her. I find that extremely rude.

 

 

Actually, no I am not slamming her. I am stating that the information given in the post is wrong. Jesus did not study eastern religions, nor did he incorporate them into his teachings. Doctrinally, the Old Testament teachings are not different than the New Testament teachings. The Bible contains one message - that of redemption. It isn't my opinion, it is a fact. If you would like some backup, there's the Bible - the whole thing. 

[Aura]

Lying is a sin. Not practicing martial arts is a conviction. Pushing your convictions on someone else is legalism.

 

I have encountered many convictions that are presented as sin by individuals and groups. The list can get really long and, IMO, tedious and finicky.

 

IMO, the Bible clearly lays out how to discern whether anything is good or not. I don't need someone to tell me such-and-such is going to send my soul (or my children's!) to hell or lead them astray.

 

Matthew 7:15-20

 

Ultimately I judge actions, etc. by their fruits. If they present good fruits, then the tree (action) is good. But if the fruit is bad, the tree is bad. Fruit takes a while to mature. There's a long process from a seed growing and producing another seed, so it requires a very discerning study.

 

So I would be asking myself what will the writer's fruits bring? What will taking martial arts bring? I know how I answer these questions, but you have to come to your own conclusions.

[Aura]

Actually, no I am not slamming her. I am stating that the information given in the post is wrong. Jesus did not study eastern religions, nor did he incorporate them into his teachings. Doctrinally, the Old Testament teachings are not different than the New Testament teachings. The Bible contains one message - that of redemption. It isn't my opinion, it is a fact. If you would like some backup, there's the Bible - the whole thing. 

 

You have no evidence that Jesus did not study eastern religions. That is your opinion, not a fact. And in the process of stating your opinion as fact, you are discrediting someone else's clearly stated opinion, which was never presented as fact. IMO, that's slamming her.

[TechWife]

You have no evidence that Jesus did not study eastern religions. That is your opinion, not a fact. And in the process of stating your opinion as fact, you are discrediting someone else's clearly stated opinion, which was never presented as fact. IMO, that's slamming her.

 

 

Slamming is personal. Stating facts is not personal. From the perspective of pure logic, it isn't my responsibility to prove that something didn't occur, it is her burden to prove that it did. It is within my secular right (freedom of speech and all that) as well as my responsibility as a Christian to tell people that someone has the facts about Christianity wrong. 

 

ETA: parenthesis

[happypamama]

I think you need talk to your instructor if you have concerns. As far as I am concerned, martial arts is a sport, same as basketball. Ours has no meditation or prayer or the like incorporated into it, and our instructor teaches values from a Biblical perspective. I have seen or heard nothing that makes me concerned for anything. I appreciate the "yes, sir" that my children are required to say, and I don't mind that they bow as a sign of respect to the instructor, their classmates, and the room itself. The room is not sacred, but I think bowing is the way that the students get in the classroom mindset and know that they are there to learn, not to fool around.

 

I think there may be things that one family feels are in conflict with their Christian beliefs, and I think that family should not partake in that activity, whether it's martial arts or shopping on Sunday. But I think there are a good many things not spelled out as being prohibited either, and so you have to make your own choice after getting counsel.

[SKL]

Fact, opinion - both are opinions IMO since neither of us was "there."  Jesus' life is not fully documented in the Bible.  He obviously did things and visited places that the Bible does not mention.

 

But maybe the objection comes from a belief that Jesus was born knowing everything perfectly (including how to communicate the universal message to all), and had nothing to gain or lose from exposure to other religions.

[ScoutTN]

The worldview from which the exercise originated is not necessarily or typically taught with the exercise techniques and skills. Same with yoga. Or acupuncture. Not a bad thing to be aware of the background, but not a reason for not participating, imo.

 

If the instructor is teaching Buddhism, a Christian might well want to find a different one.

[TechWife]

 

 

But maybe the objection comes from a belief that Jesus was born knowing everything perfectly (including how to communicate the universal message to all), and had nothing to gain or lose from exposure to other religions.

 

Yes, this is true. Jesus is omniscient - he knows everything. He is also infallible, which meant he could not be led astray during the incarnation (or now, for that matter). Of great import, though, is the earlier, incorrect statement that the Old Testament and the New Testament are different from each other. As I stated earlier, they are not different, they are both about redemption. Additionally, Jesus did not incorporate eastern religions into his teachings. The evidence is, and continues to remain, the Bible. 

[El...]

I am a Christian and a martial artist.  I've been actively training for the majority of the past 24 years (good golly, just realized that.  Ok.).

 

When I participate in meditation in class, it has become my routine to inwardly recite the first few verses of a Psalm, the one that begins, "Blessed be the Lord my strength, Who teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight, my goodness, my fortress, my high tower, and He in Whom I trust..."  I think about what I'm there to do, about doing my best, and just let go of my to-do list in order to focus on NOW.

 

I really think that what you get out of a martial art spiritually will be whatever you bring into it.  I suppose there might be a few hinky schools trying to teach religious things, but I've never seen one, and I even got to train for a little while in Okinawa. 

 

 

[El...]

Funny story--

 

A woman was concerned about the spirituality of our TKD class so she was asking Master P lots of questions.

 

Her - "You don't do any kind of levitation in the classes, do you?"

Master P - "Ma'am??"

Her - "You know, like sitting around with your legs crossed and thinking."

Master P - "No, we don't do anything like that here."

:smilielol5:

[Slartibartfast]

I am fine with yoga and martial arts. 

 

I think some people get over excited about things they don't understand and place too much emphasis on the "other" and keeping the cooties away. I don't think it impacts my faith to study other cultures or to engage in their fitness activities.

 

People who have engaged in other sports activities are aware that those who are more devoted to those sports and are wanting to reach higher levels will also engage in meditation and visualization techniques to help them achieve their goals. 

[bolt.]

Yes, this is true. Jesus is omniscient - he knows everything. He is also infallible, which meant he could not be led astray during the incarnation (or now, for that matter). Of great import, though, is the earlier, incorrect statement that the Old Testament and the New Testament are different from each other. As I stated earlier, they are not different, they are both about redemption. Additionally, Jesus did not incorporate eastern religions into his teachings. The evidence is, and continues to remain, the Bible. 

 

Another Bible-College-Prof answer... (Not that anyone asked for this one.)

 

There is *both* continuity and discontinuity of ideas between the Old and New Testaments. There is no conflict or contradiction, and the over-all main message and theme of both testaments is indeed redemption. This is what "continuity" between the Testaments means.

 

However there are definitely also 1. Some brand new ideas found in the New Testament that there is no evidence of in the Old Testament (or filaments of hints); 2. Some tension between ideas that are emphasized in one Testament and de-emphasized in the other Testament (both ways); and, 3. Some specific and authoritative interpretations or applications of the Old Testament by the New Testament that are narrower, more specific, or even somewhat "off" of the way the Old Testament would have been interpreted in the absence of the New Testament. 4. Some ideas that are entirely absent from the New Testament that are clearly present in the Old Testament (or even OT ideas that authoritatively put-an-end-to by the NT) . This is what "discontinuity" between the Testaments means.

 

There is the idea that on a fruit tree, a blossom and a fruit are clearly different things, yet, somehow they are also the same 'thing'. The Testaments are like that. Deep down, very much the same, yet, in expression (and through development) really quite distinct.

 

While (on the one hand) I do *not* agree that Jesus "learned" eastern mysticism and incorporated it purposefully into His teaching in the way that has been suggested.

 

On the other hand, I would not be surprised if some of the ideas that are brand new in the NT happen to have things in common with the present and active cultures, philosophies and religions of the day. I'd just say that it's because Jesus is a great communicator, able to use cultural ideas as effective tools to communicate truth -- truth that is independent of culture or 'eastern thought' or anything else (not truth 'from' eastern thought).

 

(In fact, I also believe that the Holy Spirit in the OT was using cultural ideas as effective tools to communicate truth, too, so I kinda think that's just the normal way that God communicates with people. I can't think of another way for God to do it.)

[chocolatechip]

For me, I am not "okay" with yoga or martial arts. From what I've been taught, it would fall under a physical form of worship that can't really be separated from the worship (ie, even if one wanted to just do the physical aspect it is still originated in that religion's worship and as such can't be only a form of exercise.) As an Orthodox Christian, we have a physical part of worship, prostrations, that also happen to be quite strenuous and good exercise, but they are so intrinsically an act of worship that it wouldn't be just "exercise" to do prostrations.

 

Quite obviously this is a view that others, even other EOs, may not share. But it is what I have been taught by those whom I trust very much, and so I choose to avoid the yoga and martial art trend.

[goldberry]

Here is another article for her to consider: 

http://www.equip.org/article/should-a-christian-practice-the-martial-arts/

 

 

 

Nice, balanced article.

[JadeOrchidSong]

NM

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think the issue is what you think God thinks about it all.  God is not legalistic.  He does not add burdens to us.  His yoke is easy and His burden is light.  

[milovany]

While I wouldn't say (and don't believe) that Jesus "studied Eastern religions and ... incorporated some of them into his teachings," I would say that He most definitely lived in an Eastern culture and that much of what He did and taught is probably often misunderstood by our western minds. For example, in an eastern culture, the Christian faith is far more communal than the West tends to think of it. In the west, especially the Protestant west, whether or not an individual has "received Christ into their heart" and so has a "personal relationship with [Him]" is pretty foundational. This theology is quite foreign in an Eastern phronema, as I'm coming to understand it.. One can't really be a "me and my Bible" Christian in Eastern cultures. There's very little "It's just between me and God" thought. The Christian faith is practiced in community. In this way, Eastern-ness needs to be taken into consideration when we read the Bible and learn from the church what Christ taught.

 

So that's what I think of in relation to the original statement that's being called into question. Maybe He didn't "study [other] eastern religions and ... incorporate them into His teachings," but He did teach and live in an Eastern culture and so in interpreting His words and actions, we'd do well to do so from this point of view.

[Saddlemomma]

Our DD has been taking To-Shin Do for about 4 years now.  Both of her instructors are in law enforcement and Christians.  We've never had an issue with adverse spirituality in the class.

 

I've heard about the issues with Yoga and martial arts, but frankly, I don't think there are any issues unless you cultivate them.  In other words, if I actively seek out, embrace, and practice the specific spiritual connotations associated with those disciplines, then that would be counter to my Christian beliefs and practices -- a major problem. 

 

Meditation is another supposed taboo against Christianity.  However, if I decide to meditate by praising Jesus or praying, concentrating on Him instead of trying to find my inner self or a higher plane, to me that's not an issue.

 

It all comes down to how you use the discipline in question, it's purpose for you, and what you focus on while doing it.  If you're secure in your walk with Christ and your spirituality, there shouldn't be a problem.

[DawnM]

OP here again.

Let me first clarify that my friend only sent me the link and doesn't say anything negative about MA. Her daughter really enjoys the class! Please leave her out of your comment. I grew up practicing martial arts and am thrilled dc are now interested in it and we will continue.

 

Dc's previous piano teacher from Taiwan and dh both ask dc to bow and say "thank you, teacher" at the end of each lesson.

Bowing to me is showing respect, not worship. I have zero problem with it. In fact, I really appreciate teachers make students bow to them.

 

Then why did she send you the link?  I am not quite following.  If she doesn't have an issue with it and you don't have an issue with it, then what do we need to discuss?

 

Dawn

[JadeOrchidSong]

Then why did she send you the link? I am not quite following. If she doesn't have an issue with it and you don't have an issue with it, then what do we need to discuss?

 

Dawn

You are right, Dawn.

I stand corrected in my statement earlier.

 

she does have issue with it just like other Christians that commented upstream that have issue with it and she decided to quit.

My sons will continue with this class that they and I both enjoy very much.

 

At the end of the day, we all have to agree to disagree. Everyone has a right to have their own opinions and everyone's spiritual journey is different and we are all most likely not at the exact same place. We don't start the same, we don't walk the same, but by God's grace and mercy, we hopefully will all honor Him.

[bolt.]

Some people encounter ideas and want to discuss them if they are just interested, or unsure about how good an idea might be, or if one part resonated, or want to explore ideas they don't hold, or want affirmation for their rejection of an idea... Lots of reasons to share an article other than legalistic browbeating.

 

Not everybody deals with ideas in a black-and-white way. Sometimes ideas are just part of learning about the world and the variety of perspectives that are out there.

[TechWife]

 

 

Meditation is another supposed taboo against Christianity.  However, if I decide to meditate by praising Jesus or praying, concentrating on Him instead of trying to find my inner self or a higher plane, to me that's not an issue.

 

 

 

Meditation upon God's Word is definitely endorsed in scripture. Christians who are grounded in Scripture should realize this, but alas, so many have a knee jerk reaction. What we meditate on is a choice. 

[JadeOrchidSong]

milovany,

The reason I love love love my current church is that it feels very communal like the house church I grew in as a Christian in China. My current church members and regulars mostly live within 2 to 3 miles from the church. My small group eats together every week before our study time. We cook for members in need, we walk or bike over to houses that need us or entertain us with meals and friendship. We visit each other in hospitals. We basically live out Acts. We welcome new people and fold them in right away!!!

It makes it so easy to build up your own neighborhood and have a solid communal impact on it. For example, we (people in this church) invite to our homes our neighbors (who cares if they are believers or not; we just want to love on them) to dinner, we welcome them if they are new by sending over pies, we shovel for neighors in need, we help in neighorhood schools, we coach sports in community parks, you name it. A good number of neighbors come to our church because of encounters like these. They get to know us first and then find out we are Chrsitians. They already feel loved and accepted and cared for before they learn we are Christians; then they want to become Christians and be part of this church.

I have an pie themed open house for 6 families on my block at the end of this month to welcome two brand new neighbor families and one relatively new family with a brand new baby.

[Samm]

Missing big time from both papers is any mention of Falun Gong.  This is something that needs to be called out.  Falun Gong is the 'gotcha' exercise arm of Falun Dafa. They do something that looks like Tai Chi and lure in people seeking to improve health.  Let's see ... their leader proclaims himself the highest god whose teachings surpass those of Jesus or Buddha, he claims that each grain of sand contains exactly 3000 worlds inside, that space aliens have already arrived on Earth to take over our bodies, that giant female cosmic angels twirl around the galaxies, people can get a third eye flipping mirror forehead which lets them see visions, that people can levitate, faith healing, etc.  Its leader was born in 1952, and he invented FG theology in 1992.  In other words, FG is nothing ancient.  Other arms of FG extend into the performing arts with Shen Yun politics-infused dance productions which always get gushing reviews in their media arm of The Epoch Times.  I think they are horrible.  When there was a terrible earthquake in Sichuan, China in 2008, this group was the only one running around Chinatowns in the US celebrating and banging drums in parades saying it is some kind of divine justice for communist rule.  I think most of their exercise practitioners (esp western ones) are oblivious until they get deeper into it.  Really, this group just needs to be called out and disinfected with daylight.