Butter Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 A new trampoline park opened locally. Someone was kind enough to schedule a homeschool jump time at a group rate that was almost half the regular rate. 40 jumpers were needed for that group rate. 67 people said they'd be there this morning. Many of them confirmed they'd be there just in the last couple days. It turns out only 20 jumpers showed up. 47 didn't show up and of those 15 didn't even bother to contact the woman who organized it. The owner was kind enough to still give them the great rate even though they only had half as many as requested. And, thank goodness, he's still willing to give it another try in the fall in the hopes at least 40 people show up. Why do so many homeschoolers commit to stuff like this and then not show up? I've heard time and time again of situations like this happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's usually because they haven't paid yet so there is no heartache of being out money. It's not homeschoolers only though. Library free events that needs registration due to space constraints has the same problem. People didn't show up and didn't cancel. The librarians know my kids and would ask them if they want to take part since it could be half no show out of 20 registered participants. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yeah the only way to make that work is make people pay up front. That is so typical to my experiences. I won't organize anything like that. No way. Too many times I've seen people get burned. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 A new trampoline park opened locally. Someone was kind enough to schedule a homeschool jump time at a group rate that was almost half the regular rate. 40 jumpers were needed for that group rate. 67 people said they'd be there this morning. Many of them confirmed they'd be there just in the last couple days. It turns out only 20 jumpers showed up. 47 didn't show up and of those 15 didn't even bother to contact the woman who organized it. The owner was kind enough to still give them the great rate even though they only had half as many as requested. And, thank goodness, he's still willing to give it another try in the fall in the hopes at least 40 people show up. Why do so many homeschoolers commit to stuff like this and then not show up? I've heard time and time again of situations like this happening. Our local homeschool group has a rule that if you have two no-shows, you can't sign up for any more field trips. They will take extenuating circumstances into consideration, but they had to make the rule because the no-shows were making the entire group look bad to the point where some business owners didn't want to work with homeschoolers any more. In addition, they always collect money up front. That's the only way many people will show up. If you don't get your money to the organizer on time, you're removed from the list. The poor organizers have been yelled at and worse for not letting non-payers participate, but it's the only way to make the day run smoothly. (Some people actually expect the organizer to front the money and then trust everyone to pay up!) The rules might seem harsh, but they were made after many poor experiences. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chava_Raizel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ugh. Yes. This drives me batty. I'm looking for a new homeschool group, because every single time they schedule a fair (biography fair, science fair, whatever), 30 - 40 people initially sign up and then as it gets closer, they start dropping off like flies. Usually it gets canceled. Occasionally they'll have it anyway and there might only be 6 kids total. It's frustrating. Or no one wants to commit to anything, so people throw out great ideas and they never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Our local homeschool group has a rule that if you have two no-shows, you can't sign up for any more field trips. They will take extenuating circumstances into consideration, but they had to make the rule because the no-shows were making the entire group look bad to the point where some business owners didn't want to work with homeschoolers any more. In addition, they always collect money up front. That's the only way many people will show up. If you don't get your money to the organizer on time, you're removed from the list. The poor organizers have been yelled at and worse for not letting non-payers participate, but it's the only way to make the day run smoothly. (Some people actually expect the organizer to front the money and then trust everyone to pay up!) The rules might seem harsh, but they were made after many poor experiences. I don't think the rules seem harsh at all 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Homeschoolers are flakey, as a general rule. And chronically late. Drives me nuts! Maybe they are too accustomed to absolute control (beholding to none). Maybe the same attitude that makes them buck against organized schooling makes them buck at society generally. Maybe they have to hand out the consequences they (hastily) promised (eg "if you don't get your math done in 10 minutes you aren't going to ____!"). Maybe they're antisocial (and homeschool for the same reason) and though they try to break out into group activities, in the end they just want to stay home. Maybe school is so overwhelming they forget. Maybe they blew their budget. Maybe they are so connected virtually that they neglect the courtesies required to maintain relationships in real life. I could go on. Solution - pay up front. PayPal works. Also, in our group if you don't give 24 hr-ahead cancelation (or longer if stipulated) warning, and no show twice you are out of the group. I'm sorry for your situation. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yeah, we now require payment ahead of time. Even for free events, we charge a few dollars per family. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This comes up every now and then and I'm always surprised and disheartened about all the stories. I never want to plan field trips, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think the only way to avoid it is payment in advance. It can even be half the payment in advance. As long as they know they won't get it back if they don't show. Not only does it increase the number of people that show-up to the events, if you don't have enough show, you can pay for the required number to keep the group rate for those who do. Homeschoolers are notorious for this, but it is an issue I hear from non-homeschool families too. I do think that homeschoolers are used to a level of freedom and flexibility that others are not and I believe that is what makes them the worst. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think many homeschoolers are proud of their stance that "I do what's right for my family, period." On a basic level, that's why most of us homeschool. Taken further, it can turn into "...and the heck with anyone else, particularly the needs of some group or the dictates of some social convention. We don't play by those rules! We're independent!" 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This comes up every now and then and I'm always surprised and disheartened about all the stories. I never want to plan field trips, that's for sure. Planning field trips is not that big a deal...as long as you charge something, even $1 a person, and you require payment in advance, by a deadline, with no refunds. Then things are actually quite simple: announce the field trip, how much you're charging, and when the deadline is. Make a list of the people who paid. The end. No e-mails (or phone calls) reminding people, no e-mails (or phone calls) from people telling you they're coming (because you don't care. You only want their money.), no nothin'. And on the day of the field trip, you don't have to worry about collecting money from anyone, or wondering whether you'll have enough people, or anything. Just check off people's names as they arrive, walk in when it's time. The end. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Always collect the money ahead of time, and have a cut off for sign ups and for cancellations. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think the only way to avoid it is payment in advance. It can even be half the payment in advance. As long as they know they won't get it back if they don't show. Not only does it increase the number of people that show-up to the events, if you don't have enough show, you can pay for the required number to keep the group rate for those who do. Homeschoolers are notorious for this, but it is an issue I hear from non-homeschool families too. I do think that homeschoolers are used to a level of freedom and flexibility that others are not and I believe that is what makes them the worst. Yes, it's other people, too. I think that we just imagine that homeschoolers are worse because that's the group most of us have to deal with. However, I have done things with other, non-homeschooling groups, and it's the same. As far as homeschoolers, I always charge for any activity that has required me to interact with anyone at the event site. I always charge the full amount, too, not a deposit. When I arrange for the event, I find out what the minimum group number is and when the deadline is to cancel without penalty (some places want to charge you if you cancel after a certain date. Really.), and if I don't have enough people by that date, I cancel it. I've only had to do that once. Anyway, I don't want to be handling money from the attendees when we arrive on site, so no deposits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 ITA - flaky, late, unreliable. Make people pay in advance or just plan meetups to be pay-your-own-way, no group rate. I personally burned out on putting any effort into planning anything for other people's kids. Too many people want everything customized for them, but don't offer to help in any meaningful way, and can't even be bothered to supervise their own kids at an activity so it isn't ruined for others, or a damaging misfortune to the venue that the group was there. I'm also wary of making plans to go to things that are homeschool-specific. We have precious little time open for recreational stuff, and I don't want to commit any of it to people who may blow it off The best homeschool activies we have experienced have been things set up by a park district that are pay in advance, no reschedules, no refunds, and not run by homeschool parents. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think it's several things: 1. American culture. I notice when my brother puts together big group camping or hiking events (not homeschooling groups) a few people consistently show up like they said they would and most people feel perfectly comfortable not showing up at all or cancelling at the last minute even though they're not having an unusual situation that demands cancelling. I hear other people complain about this with groups that aren't homeschool related.2. Homeschooling demographics. I think there are plenty of homeschoolers who need lessons in shifting from an individualistic mindset at home to a group mindset when others are involved. Many do this very well but there is a sizable chunk of people who just don't get it and give the rest of us a bad name. They genuinely have no concept that when it's a group activity, things change. I suggest we have lots of internet discussions and homeschool convention workshops addressing it.There are also groups of homeschoolers with what I call "producer" mindsets and those with "consumer" mindsets. Producer mindset types are people who have or will take the reins and create and or organize groups and events when they have a need that isn't met by what's already available. They aren't waiting for the homeschooling fairy to wave her magic wand and create it for them. Consumer mindset types won't ever take the reins and do the work to make it happen. Since consumers haven't invested anything in the event (no time, no energy) it's nothing to them to not show up or to cancel at the last minute. Clearly the producer who did make the effort is a homeschooling fairy with a magic wand who effortlessly conjured the event or group for the convenience of consumers to attend or not as it suits them. Personality types. We all know people (in the homeschooling community and out of it) who are chronically late, miss things because they don't organize well, have difficulty prioritizing, struggle with follow through, have difficulty managing children, have particularly difficult children to manage, don't manage time well, etc. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 A new trampoline park opened locally. Someone was kind enough to schedule a homeschool jump time at a group rate that was almost half the regular rate. 40 jumpers were needed for that group rate. 67 people said they'd be there this morning. Many of them confirmed they'd be there just in the last couple days. It turns out only 20 jumpers showed up. 47 didn't show up and of those 15 didn't even bother to contact the woman who organized it. The owner was kind enough to still give them the great rate even though they only had half as many as requested. And, thank goodness, he's still willing to give it another try in the fall in the hopes at least 40 people show up. Why do so many homeschoolers commit to stuff like this and then not show up? I've heard time and time again of situations like this happening. No, this is the whole entire country. Americans have got to be the worst at just getting out of the house. I mean, I know some people have disabilities, but not everybody, so everybody else, get off yer butts. When I lived on a military post, I'd go to many events, and the vast majority of people I met there were foreign wives of soldiers. Korean, German, Mexican, Chinese, French, Swedish, Kenyan, no matter, they show up. It's an activity. Let's go. But my god, we international couples made up what, 10% of the community and 90% of the events! And the same when I lived in an apartment complex. It is the same 8 families out of 100 families every single time. Even now, we have PTA events. The same 10% every time and those same 10% are all dual working families with multiple kids so please don't tell me it's hard to get out of the house. I mean, it is, but just deal with it. Remember the thread awhile back in which someone's husband wanted to run a life coach class at the Y? And I posted, "Charge a fee. Don't do it for free. Make them pay a little bit or fill out a scholarship form. Otherwise they'll quit." That was not based on my homeschooling experience because I never homeschooled. :) That was based on my life experience in many parts of the world. I do think Americans take the lazy cake for this one, but it is human nature. That said, I feel sorry it happened. Pay in advance. Remind two days ahead of time and the night before. Give them a checklist to print out: Socks? [ ] Checkbook? [ ] Cash for snacks or nut-free snacks in a baggie? [ ] Water bottle? [ ] Kids? [ ] Car keys? [ ] You're ready to go! We can't wait to see you [insert name here]. If possible, remind the kids. ;) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It isn't just homeschoolers and it isn't just the US. Some people just don't consider a commitment to be something they have to adhere to. The 'my word is my bond' seems to have died. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree that this is a North American problem, but I do think homeschoolers can be a little worse. The science center in my city runs programs for homeschoolers, you buy tickets in advance, and they let you get them for an individual session rather than signing up for the whole series. Last series they told people they would no longer give refunds for tickets without a doctors note - the complaining and whining about the cost was incredible. I don't tend to see that from non-homeschoolers in teh same way - their expectations for group activities seem to be different. I pointed out that in any other kind of lesson you were expected to pay for the entire session, and if you missed one or two classes - often even the whole thing - you probably could not get a refund. They were already being very flexible by allowing people to purchase for individual sessions. Sometimes it seems like the more accommodating and flexible people try to be, the more they are expected to let others walk all over them. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I've also found that flakiness decreases when the cost increases. So, for my clubs I've increased the amounts enough that parents complain up front (by doing things like bundling in the CML test fees, the NME exam fee, and stuff like that)-but those who DO commit tend to stick around. $20 seems to be the minimum at which people actually commit and show up regularly for an ongoing activity (which is still about $2/month). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basketcase Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'd just like to add that flakiness is much less likely when the event is sponsored by a small group who all know each other. We support our friends more than strangers. In our family, we mostly do field trips with our own homeschool group, and we all show up, because we're friends with the organizer and the other moms. Our kids are friends with each other and expect to see each other every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjackoaktree Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I have found homeschoolers to be flakier than the rest of our groups we are in, but there does seem to be a trend of what I see as a sort of selfishness involved. Maybe selfishness isn't the word I'm looking for here, because that's a bit harsh. Just this sort of, "Oh, I know we committed to Science Extravaganza today, but it's sunny out, so we're going on a hike and picnic instead." And I hear that from people all the time! And in our area at least and where I lived previously (same state, different part), it was always the homeschoolers that did this to our groups. Church we'd belonged to would have people show up to an event. Scout troop would have people show up with few exceptions. Library sign up clubs always show up. Homeschool group activity- EH, 40-50% show up rate, and some of those would also still bring extra kids along that hadn't paid or signed up and expect them to be accomidated (or the moms would talk and allow kids 1-5 to just run around screaming while the event was taking place for older kids.) I actually found it really turned me off of homeschool groups. It does feel like there's a reputation - at least where I've lived-- for homeschoolers to turn that "what's best for my kids' mentality into 'I can do whatever I feel like at any time, and if a commitment gets in the way of that, oh well.' I now only attend homeschool events that are well established, like the class run by the museum. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 My mantra: Homeschoolers are flakey. I arranged for a field trip in April to a local National Historic Site (The President Lyndon B. Johnson National Historic Site). I had nearly 80 people on the roster. About 30 showed up. I was sorely disappointed, and I doubt I'll volunteer to arrange a field trip for next school year. I feel your pain, but I'll say again: Always charge, even for things that have no actual cost. When I was just a baby homeschooler, my homeschooling neighbor arranged for a behind-the-scenes field trip to the San Diego Zoo. It was $15 per person, which she did not require people to pay ahead of time. What we did not understand was that we had to pay for *15 people* whether we had 15 people or not. She had verbal commitments from at least 15, but you guessed it: they didn't all show up. So she and I had to pay for the ones who didn't. Ouch. (It was a great field trip, though.) Some years later, when I moved to San Jose, a friend arranged for a free docent-guided tour or a nearby slough. Upwards of 30 or 40 people had told her they were coming; the park brought in two or three docents because she told them so many people were coming. My friend and her son, and one other parent-and-child, showed up. :svengo: Up until that time, I had never planned a group field trip, but I had an epiphany: I would always charge for field trips, and I would always require people to pay up front, no refunds. Here's one more anecdote: I went to a couple of field trips where the number of people in the group determined how much they paid, and it was painful: after everyone arrived, *then* the organizer counted heads, and figured out how much each had to pay, and *then* everyone wrote checks...it was awkward and time consuming. I would have charged everyone a flat rate and called it good; if it meant we ended up with more money than we needed, I would used the extra to pay for my dc and me. Yup. And one more: At the Monterey Bay Aquarium, it's one adult free for every five (or 10...I forget) children, the rest of the adults pay full price, children are free. So, the field trips I went on that were arranged by others went something like this: Everyone arrives; the coordinator counts two groups, children and adults (and the MBA wanted to know how many children in each grade level); divide the number of children by five; subtract that number from the total number of adults; multiple that number by $10; divide that total by the total number of adults; everyone writes checks, then the coordinator pays the docent. Oy. (There are Homeschool Days now at the MBA, but it was not so back in the day.) So, having endured that painful procedure a couple of times, I decided not to. I mailed out Official Registration Forms which included how many children in each age group (not grade level, 'cuz homeschoolers either don't know what grade level their children are, or they've mucked with the grade levels so they don't reflect the children's ages, which is what the MBA actually cares about, but that's another story, lol). I charged $10 per adult. Mr. Ellie built a database for me which totaled attendees each time I added people, because I could take only 100, so I needed to know as I went along. At the MBA, I had people arrive one hour before our scheduled entrance time. I printed out a list that included names (parent name, # of children in each grade, total # in group), and I checked people off as they arrived. When it was time for us to get ready to go in, I wrote the check to the MBA, gave the docent the total adults and children in each grade-level group, she gave me "Chaperone" name badges for the adults, and in we went. The last time I did this, the docent almost wept at how prepared I was, because she had just done another homeschool group the day before, who had done things the *other* way. :-) Oh, and my friend who had organized the field trip to the slough that no one attended said that she used to think I was pretty hardnosed about signing up in advance and paying ahead of time and whatnot...until she started organizing field trips. :D 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I have found homeschoolers to be flakier than the rest of our groups we are in, but there does seem to be a trend of what I see as a sort of selfishness involved. Maybe selfishness isn't the word I'm looking for here, because that's a bit harsh. Just this sort of, "Oh, I know we committed to Science Extravaganza today, but it's sunny out, so we're going on a hike and picnic instead." That's selfish, to me. What would not be selfish would be not committing and taking on the risk yourself: "We will go if the weather's bad, so we'll take a leftover spot if there's one available. Oh, you need a pre-commitment? I guess we can't go. Thanks for your hard work in organizing this though. Maybe some other time." Everybody understands wanting to be out in the sun, but not knowing that you are going to be the sort of person to do that, or not admitting it, and then just flaking out, that is selfish. It's the not taking responsibility and not having consideration that is selfish, not the prioritizing your family. We all prioritize our families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebcoola Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I don't think it is just homeschoolers I have run 2 different Mom's clubs and realized quickly if you had 30 members you really had 5 and some people who showed up once or twice but mostly talked about coming and never did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This thread reminds me of an article I recently read: http://m.mic.com/articles/113138/there-s-a-modern-problem-afflicting-our-friendships-and-it-s-time-to-talk-about-it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momto4inSoCal Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think it's more of our culture in general. It really bugs me and I have a hard time dealing with people who are consistently late, skip things without calling etc. To me it sends a message of my time is more valuable than yours and its rude. I understand things come up but I feel like some people will drop things if they don't feel like going or if something that sounds more fun pops up. No one really honors their commitments. The only way to get them to honor their commitment is to attach money to it, either they get paid for going or they have to pay before going. Maybe it's just personality differences but for me if I say I'm going to be somewhere I show up and I show up on time. I think it sends a bad message to kids if you are constantly late or flaky. Even with my twins as infants I still showed up places on time. You just have to plan more and give yourself extra time to get out the door. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenDaisies Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There is a local group here that charges a $20 deposit per family for free field trips. If you attend, you get your deposit back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I was the field trip coordinator for our local homeschool group for a couple of years, then stepped down because I couldn't work with all the no-shows anymore. It makes business owners grumpy when they are expecting and set up for x number of people, and only get y. Plus I think it makes homeschoolers look bad in general... or at least flaky. I think more rules for no-shows would have been beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Use Paypal - it works well! Next time, send out an email that since many did not show up to the June event, in order to preserve the great rates for homeschoolers at the trampoline park, the participating parents need to put down a deposit of $5 per child that will be attending - no refunds allowed. And then, send out the invitation so that they are scheduled to arrive a full 10 minutes ahead of the actual event. That is what I would do if I were you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The last field trip I went on, against my better judgement, was to a riparian preserve. We have a "Just Field Trips" FB page for homeschoolers here in AZ. When a field trip that interests you comes up, you sign up at the online link provided for that particular field trip by listing your child's first name and age (often a factor in whether or not others will sign up) and you pay online at that site with a credit card or pay pal to secure your spot and registration. All the details are listed there and it automatically sends a reminder which I think is extremely generous and not at all necessary. Then there's the bad parenting that many homeschoolers have to deal with by other homeschoolers at these events. Back when I started homeschooling, there were workshops of a "Don't screw this up for us" nature as part of new homeschooler lectures at homeschool conventions. They included talk about making sure your kids we extremely well behaved in public or keeping them home and actively working on it if they weren't. Those were the days when we didn't tremble at upsetting a new homeschooling mommy with some matter of fact, this is the reality of the situation, talk. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 This thread reminds me of an article I recently read: http://m.mic.com/articles/113138/there-s-a-modern-problem-afflicting-our-friendships-and-it-s-time-to-talk-about-it that was spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 This thread reminds me of an article I recently read: http://m.mic.com/articles/113138/there-s-a-modern-problem-afflicting-our-friendships-and-it-s-time-to-talk-about-it The whole time I read that article I was feeling like I was reading an Onion article even though I knew they were being serious. I was raised by a mom who *never* flaked out on scheduled things and was always 10-15 minutes early. And so she taught us kids that that was how we should approach life, too. I get sometimes there really are emergencies, especially when dealing with kids - they get sick. But when you are saying you will go to something 12 times a month and only getting to 2, something is wrong. Before I ever commit to something I make absolutely sure it will work in our schedule because it's rude to cancel at the last minute or just not show up because the sun came out. I do not understand how people can feel fine about not keeping their commitments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I have found that it's really uneven. Some groups of homeschoolers I know are terrible flakes. Others are much less so. But when there's a random group, I find it's often hard to know which way it's going to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Okay, I just read that Mic article. Interesting... You know, I see most of the "commitments" in that article as being different. I mean hang out with so and so is different to me than, please confirm that you'll be at this pay event/class/gathering. I see myself as being pretty firm on my commitments, but I do flake on casual social gatherings pretty routinely - both socially and with homeschooling. I mean, if someone says, hey will you be at the workshop at the gallery that we all registered for tomorrow and I say yes, then I really mean it and if something comes up, I'll either work around it or I'll contact the organizer beforehand and apologize that about an emergency change of plans - one that would genuinely be something I couldn't change. If someone says, hey, will you be at the park day tomorrow and I say yes, then I mostly mean it, but if something comes up, I'm not going to stress, I'll just skip the park day. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It is not just America... I see the same at homeschoolers in the Netherlands and in Belgium. Dd has now the age to attend adult workshops, so that makes things easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Okay, I just read that Mic article. Interesting... You know, I see most of the "commitments" in that article as being different. I mean hang out with so and so is different to me than, please confirm that you'll be at this pay event/class/gathering. I see myself as being pretty firm on my commitments, but I do flake on casual social gatherings pretty routinely - both socially and with homeschooling. I mean, if someone says, hey will you be at the workshop at the gallery that we all registered for tomorrow and I say yes, then I really mean it and if something comes up, I'll either work around it or I'll contact the organizer beforehand and apologize that about an emergency change of plans - one that would genuinely be something I couldn't change. If someone says, hey, will you be at the park day tomorrow and I say yes, then I mostly mean it, but if something comes up, I'm not going to stress, I'll just skip the park day. :iagree: I rarely do the kind of meet-ups that were discussed in that article. Park day is not really a commitment. Moms' Night Out is not a commitment. A field trip that you signed up for, that I've had to verify number of attendees with the destination event, is a commitment. If you don't show up, you might not be allowed to join my group again. Telling me you'll be at my 10th Anniversary in Texas Cook-out, where I'm preparing all the food and inviting the friends who have become dear to me during my 10 years in Texas, is a commitment, and if you don't show up...you might be removed from that list. Just sayin'... :glare: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There is a local group here that charges a $20 deposit per family for free field trips. If you attend, you get your deposit back. That's brilliant. Although I'm not sure I'd want to be in charge of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 But wouldn't you at least be courteous enough to state that you weren't coming to the park day or MNO if your plans did change? The organizer also could probably better use that time to do something else if everyone bails and they don't feel like going to the park alone. It is partly a respect for other people's time as well. I'm not as peeved at people who tell me their plans change as I am at those who leave up a yes RSVP and then just no-show. If enough people do that, it is not even worth my time to organize and I could spend it researching curriculum or something, lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 But wouldn't you at least be courteous enough to state that you weren't coming to the park day or MNO if your plans did change? The organizer also could probably better use that time to do something else if everyone bails and they don't feel like going to the park alone. It is partly a respect for other people's time as well. I'm not as peeved at people who tell me their plans change as I am at those who leave up a yes RSVP and then just no-show. If enough people do that, it is not even worth my time to organize and I could spend it researching curriculum or something, lol. Yes, this. A few years ago, a friend and I organized park days/informal PE class. Every time people would say they were coming and then some would just not show up (generally different people). It would have been nice the three times my friend and I showed up and no one else did (and after that we just quit completely) to have known no one was coming when 10-15 other people were supposed to be there. It is rude to just no show after you've said you'd be there. If we had known no one would be there, we wouldn't have gone and sat and waited. The crazy thing is when we cancelled completely, people complained because they had enjoyed it?!?! Even if it's informal, someone took the time to put it together and not showing up disrespects their time. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Don't even get me started. There are reasons why I am stepping down from leadership in my hs group. This is just one of numerous similar issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Telling me you'll be at my 10th Anniversary in Texas Cook-out, where I'm preparing all the food and inviting the friends who have become dear to me during my 10 years in Texas, is a commitment, and if you don't show up...you might be removed from that list. Just sayin'... :glare: Hehe. If I am ever invited to a serious Ellie event, I'll be sure to keep my RSVP. ;) Anything where the host is preparing food is a commitment to be honored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawthorne44 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I know several people (that don't live near me) that have stopped having a beloved annual party because they couldn't get people to commit so they had no idea how much stuff to prepare. The ratio of people that committed to those that actually showed up varied wildly. When I was in the wedding planning stage my mother peered into a wedding being setup at her club. She ended up helping decorate and then she was invited to the wedding because a huge hunk of the RSVP's no-showed. A wedding! I would think that even flakes would keep a wedding RSVP. Basically, I think Americans are just flaky now days. Reminds me of when I was inquiring about a bus to the casino. It is basically free because you get chips equal to the cost. I wasn't sure if I'd be able to go because the times were inconvenient. The lady was so amazed that I said I'd call her back when I was absolutely certain I could go that she took my name done to get priority seating. I don't remember if you had to pay when making the reservation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I think articulation is a part of the problem. So many people don't say what they mean. If I'm committed to doing something I say "I'll be there." I mean I'll be there unless illness, injury, or some other emergency comes up with me or my immediate family member. If I'm not truly committed, then I explain. If I think I'll probably go to something unless something else comes up, I say so out loud in plain English. I say things like, "Yes, I'll probably be at the church social, but if my husband's work schedule conflicts, I'll skip it and stay home with my youngest, so don't wait for me." or "I might to go the park day event, but it'll depend on how things go that morning, so don't count on us." "My kid is having significant medical/behavior issues so if it turn out to be a bad day, we'll have to bow out." or "You should know I help take care of an adult dependent and in the recent past we've had several things pop up at the last minute, so if I'm needed by them I'll have to cancel." I do it with time too. "Yes, I'll be at the church social, but I'll probably be late because my [then] 15 year old has archery practice on the other side of town and traffic is terrible that time of day." or "I can get there sometime between 2 and 2:30 because the thing I have before/ the distance I have to cover / some other thing makes me unable to commit to being there right on time. " Then I ask if being late would interrupt the event in any way shape or form. If so, then don't go. If not, they know not to wait to start until I show up. In my experience, people planning, hosting and/or coordinating events appreciate this kind of information and welcome it over saying yes and then not showing up or showing up late. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 But wouldn't you at least be courteous enough to state that you weren't coming to the park day or MNO if your plans did change? The organizer also could probably better use that time to do something else if everyone bails and they don't feel like going to the park alone. It is partly a respect for other people's time as well. I'm not as peeved at people who tell me their plans change as I am at those who leave up a yes RSVP and then just no-show. If enough people do that, it is not even worth my time to organize and I could spend it researching curriculum or something, lol. It probably depends on the situation. If it is a person or two waiting for me then yes I'd tell them. If it is one of these hey anyone who wants to show up if they can things then not necessarily. I have specifically asked people to tell me if they aren't going even if it is just an e-mail or facebook. Usually that is because the place I intended to meet them is very far for me and I wouldn't go there otherwise except to meet up with them. They have always let me know in that case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Telling me you'll be at my 10th Anniversary in Texas Cook-out, where I'm preparing all the food and inviting the friends who have become dear to me during my 10 years in Texas, is a commitment, and if you don't show up...you might be removed from that list. Just sayin'... :glare: So what time is the party? :drool5: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There are park days around here for groups with more than a hundred homeschooling families in them. No need to let anyone know you won't be there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 But wouldn't you at least be courteous enough to state that you weren't coming to the park day or MNO if your plans did change? The organizer also could probably better use that time to do something else if everyone bails and they don't feel like going to the park alone. It is partly a respect for other people's time as well. I'm not as peeved at people who tell me their plans change as I am at those who leave up a yes RSVP and then just no-show. If enough people do that, it is not even worth my time to organize and I could spend it researching curriculum or something, lol. I guess it would depend on how your support group works. :-) In my support groups, park days were informal, unorganized events. They happened on the first Friday of every month, at the same time, at the same park. Whoever showed up...showed up. There was never a park day where no one showed up (unless the California weather was really inclement, and people just figured out on their own that no, there's no park day today). Ditto with Moms' Night Out: first Monday of the month, at a different home (announced in the newsletter); whoever showed up...showed up. The hostess decided on the agenda, which was never announced ahead of time. We had everything from a craft night to a devotional to a whole evening of just chatting and enjoying each other's company, such that the hostess didn't feel like interrupting us for her agenda. :-) The MNO in August was the one Official Business Meeting. That's when we decided whether to continue MNO, on the same night; to continue park day, at the same time, at the same park; we passed around a sign-up sheet for possible group activities, such as a Thanksgiving dinner, a Christmas dinner, Valentine's Day festivities, St. Patrick's Day ditto, end-of-year event, and so on. People who were interested in planning those signed up, and then met together on their own time to plan the details (IOW, no planning of parties and whatnot at a MNO). If no one signed up, then we didn't have that event. The MNO before our convention was a "book look." We met at a room at a church or somewhere, instead of in a home, and we all brought all our stuff to share. No buying or selling, just looking. Field trips were, of course, a whole different ball game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 So what time is the party? :drool5: I wish I could have invited you. :-) It was last summer. I invited, gosh, 50 people? Lots of people, and I told them that it wasn't a secret and that I had plenty of room, so they could invite any other friends; I just needed them to let me know if they were coming because **I was preparing all of the food.** I saved up for several months so I could buy as much barbecue as I needed, and I made potato salad (I make good potato salad), and cole slaw, and banana pudding (it is the best.banana.pudding.ever). 30 people said they were coming; 10 people didn't show up, and didn't call to let me know they weren't coming, and didn't call afterwards to grovel. Do you know how much it cost to feed those 10 people? Do you know what leftovers for 10 people looks like? :cursing: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There are park days around here for groups with more than a hundred homeschooling families in them. No need to let anyone know you won't be there. Exactly. And for us, even with only 30 families, park day was a casual, informal event, so no need to let people know. I would not want to spend time on e-mail/FB/devices checking up/in with everyone to verify who was or was not going. :ack2: ETA: BOOYA!!!! First on the page! :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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