S/O What crimes of your offspring would you report to the police?

[AndyJoy]

When I'm in a dark mood and contemplating all the bad things that could happen in life, I consider the possibility that my child might commit a serious crime some day, either while still a child/teen or as an adult.  Obviously I don't know for sure how I would react in the moment, but it's something I've considered and thought on a bit.  I see parents defend their guilty offspring who've committed major crimes and am sickened.  I would be devastated if my child committed a major crime, but I cannot fathom hiding it or excusing it. I think I would cry and yell and pray and maybe puke and call the police.  Even if I were worried that my offspring would be "hardened" or "corrupted" or treated "too harshly" or "unfairly" or that the legal system is unjust I feel I would have a moral obligation to report many crimes.

 

Has anyone else thought about this?  Are there lesser crimes for which you would not call?  Where do you draw the line?  Would you report pot smoking, robbery, illegal gun possession, animal abuse, battery of siblings/parents/SO, illegal drugs, molestation, r*ape, statutory r*ape, murder, kidnapping, terrorism, arson, underage drinking, anything else?  Does anyone want to dialogue about this?

[Joker]

I can't imagine I would report pot smoking, drugs, or underage drinking. I would seek professional help if it was needed but I don't see going to the authorities unless someone else was harmed. Your other examples involve harm, or possible harm, to others and so I would at least like to think I would contact authorities.

[umsami]

Let's see: I'd report robbery, illegal gun possession, animal abuse, battery of siblings/parents/SO,  molestation, r*ape, statutory r*ape, murder, kidnapping, terrorism, and arson.  Anything that others could be hurt by, definitely.  Maybe not robbery from me (say $20 from my purse), but from others? Yes.  If it was chronic or if it was to buy drugs, then probably.  No to pot smoking, illegal drugs (if using themselves and not driving), and underage drinking (no driving).  I'd seek out help though. 

[Spy Car]

If he joined a hate organization that advocated killing innocent people, I'd turn him in.

 

Which Jim Bob and Michelle also failed to do with Josh.

 

Bill

[Anne in CA]

Any crime that hurt someone else should be dealt with professionally. I would not allow my children to avoid facing consequences for that sort of crime.

[LucyStoner]

Any serious crime with a victim other than themselves. So no, I wouldn't report drinking but yes, I would report sexual assault.

[gardenmom5]

I thought about it a lot as a teenager.   as a teen -  my brother was dealing drugs as well as had his own grow operation in our basement.  my mother allowed it (because she was very weak) - but it is something I never would have allowed to have progressed that far in my home. the thing that stopped me the most was I was afraid of what my family would do to me if I called the police on him, as I was the youngest and living at home.  (and I had a lot of stuff I had to deal with because of his choices.)

 

when my purse was stolen (along with my wallet and house keys. the purse was found in a trash can with only the money missing.) I reported it to the police with the concern someone could take them and break into the house.  so, they supposedly would do some drive bys.  my brother pounded on me for calling the cops because they might notice his druggie buyers.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

dp

[Katy]

I doubt I'd call for stealing something small from someone in the family, things that would be misdemeanors, or crimes that would only hurt themselves (drinking or drugs).  I would seek a licensed cognitive therapist for them if those turned into ongoing issues though.

 

For boys in a fist fight I would try and gauge why before deciding - was it an abusive situation or an equal fight?  Standing up to a bully or being a bully? 

 

For anything else I'd call the police and let them deal with the consequences, with the possible exception of calling a lawyer first to arrange a deal if I thought it was gang related or somehow related to organized crime and taking responsibility would result in retaliation against the child or our family.

 

If I had a son who was sexually abusing siblings then I would probably 1) get him out of the house ASAP by having DH take him to a hotel, and 2) Spend a day researching the most effective intervention & therapy programs and hiring a lawyer before calling the police so that the lawyer could advocate for whatever I felt the best option was before the child saw a judge.  I'd probably opt for a boarding school type therapy environment if that was an option to us, so I could focus on helping the victims.

[gardenmom5]

tp.

 

I don't know why I got an error message when I tried to post this, then when I'd click to refresh - it would repost the whole thing while still showing me an error message.  :001_rolleyes:

 

[DawnM]

If he joined a hate organization that advocated killing innocent people, I'd turn him in.

 

Which Jim Bob and Michelle also failed to do with Josh.

 

Bill

 

 

HUH?  Josh was openly a part of that organization.  The police would not have done anything as it wasn't illegal.  

[DawnM]

It would depend on which son it was.  If it were my son who is an Aspie, I would do everything in my power to take him to a mental facility first as he would never survive prison.  

 

My other two, well, I can't see any of them doing anything, so the question doesn't quite compute for me, but any felony would make the list.

[The Girls' Mom]

For a single misdemeanor, I probably wouldn't.  However, I've seen so many members of my family destroy their lives and that of their families with drug related crimes that their parents help them escape consequences for.  In the interest of my child's well-being, repeated drug offenses would be reported.  Any crime that impacted another life would be reported.  

[bolt.]

There might be things that I would try to handle "in house" -- but it would possibly be stupid to do so. I like the approach above: get the person away from the problem, research (and possibly start) an intervention, later up, then report... Possibly have the child turn them self in.

[creekland]

All I can say is it's something I've never thought about, don't see the need to think about now, and hope I never see the need in the future.

 

I feel for those in this situation though, and definitely agree with the "seek counseling" option over "turn them in" option if applicable.

[Melissa in Australia]

I would like to think that I would report to the police, but the reality is that I could not say what I would do unless I was in that situation.

 

 

 

 

 I am ashamed at my lack of guts ( or whatever it is) that I have not reported my SIL  and her family. They are not only drug dealers, but gave they children drugs as birthday presents in their early teens. If they lived in the same country I would absolutely report them as they would then be a threat to my family.

[Amira]

The country I was currently living in would make a difference for me in this decision. I think there are certain human rights that must be protected, no matter what awful thing someone has done. The type of treatment, not just punishment, would matter too.

 

I really hope this is not something I ever actually have to think through.

[bettyandbob]

The person who turned the Unabomber was his brother. He got a lawyer who negotiated with the police and got a deal for his brother to get no more than life in prison if he was in fact the Unabomber before revealing himself and his brother's wearabouts.

 

I can't imagine being remotely related to someone who did something so awful, but yes I'd turn him in. Maybe I'd go through negotiations, but I'd turn him in. I'd have to stop him.

 

Things like murder and rape, I'd have to report.

 

Things like using drugs, no.

 

Crimes in between I don't know. If the crime brought harm to the rest of my family yes. For instance, drug dealing could result in me being charged and my house being forfeited and my other dc homeless.

 

This is just a difficult concept.

 

I hope never to be in the position to evaluate turning a family member in. I haven't had to be. Thankfully, no one has done anything minor even.

[FaithManor]

Something without a victim such as possession of an illegal substance or underage drinking in which there was no driving or misdemeanors since our overwhelmed, under resources law enforcement often times do not respond anyway, would be handled here. In these cases, the child would land in either outpatient therapy or inpatient rehab depending on the severity of the incident.

 

Felonies that have victims? As hard as that is to imagine having to do, I would absolutely report my kid because at that point, the victim is the consideration, not my family reputation, not my child the offender's future, not...The authorities have to be informed and consequences have to be meted out according to the law. From there, we would do what we could to help rehabilitate our child though in the case of victimizing siblings, said child would not live here ever again, period. That's the natural consequences of the action, and again, the innocent whose lives are forever changed by the action get first, primary consideration period.

[Chris in VA]

I just want to say that I can't stand it when drug abuse is considered a victimless crime.

[FaithManor]

HUH?  Josh was openly a part of that organization.  The police would not have done anything as it wasn't illegal.  

I think Spycar was making more of a statement about actions that would appall him if his son were to take part than making a statement about involving police. Though certainly, while the FRC is not going to be investigated a present for hate crimes, there are groups that probably would be on the radar.

[FaithManor]

I just want to say that I can't stand it when drug abuse is considered a victimless crime.

Oh, I know it has its victims. I was thinking of the difference legally between possession of a controlled substance without the intent to distribute, vs. dealing. That's all.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I think that MANY families would TRY to handle many things on their own first. 

 

 

Child does X

Parents scold him and figure it was a "mistake."

 

Child does X again

Parents put in safeties, counsel child, try to get "safe" help

 

Child does X *again*

Parents raise the help (a program, for example)

 

Child does X *yet again*

Parents are desperate and seek another kind of help (maybe the police to scare kid straight?)

 

I have done this dance but it was with a young child.  

Which I think is another consideration.  

 

With most behaviors, they are on a spectrum of expected at some time in childhood.  Just for example, we EXPECT toddlers to hit siblings and friends.  By school-age, that decreases, a LOT, but a lot of teen boys get in a fight or two.  So at what point is it a legal matter rather than a parenting matter? at what point is it abuse?  And it is easy to look back and think, maybe I should have done something when _______.  But in the moment, you're just trying to handle it.

 

You  may or may not make the right decisions.  But how do you know?  I don't think you can.  My parents couldn't with my brother either.  You do the best you can and hope it works out.  But it is pretty normal to want to avoid jail, CPS visits, etc as you're doing so.  And then weighing out what is immaturity, within a spectrum of "normal" behavior, etc is challenging also.  Note that I'm not excusing the Duggars.  I have no idea the situation there.  But I could see some of this playing a part.  

 

Obviously, murder is a bit different.  But even then, what if it were an accident or a person were framed or just in the wrong place at the wrong time?  How many movies have been made on these subjects?  If the person or family just has a little bit of time to track down just the right information or evidence....What if you really didn't believe your child did it or that it wasn't done in evil?  Would you give them a day, a week, a month?  Would you contact a lawyer, a trusted friend, an out of the country relative?  I think that usually I'd say the truth would come out so just let the system work.  But sometimes it *doesn't* work.  Then what?  If I were in the situation, I'd likely turn a family member in...but I'm not in that situation so maybe in the moment I could think of a reason not to?

[Tanaqui]

I'm not going to report drugs or underage drinking unless I really believe this is the only way for them to get help. I think our drug laws are frankly insane. (This isn't to say I think it's a grand idea to just get high all the time. I simply think the laws have done way more harm than good.)

 

Of the remaining list, the only thing I might not report is simple statutory rape, if it fits under the criteria for the NYS "Romeo and Juliet" provision. That's a partial exemption, so reporting would still be an option.

[Amira]

Part of the trouble with unofficial restorative justice that families might attempt themselves versus official punitive justice, which is likely what you'll get if you turn your child in for committing a crime, is that we don't know how often that unofficial restorative justice does or doesn't work because it's never reported.  Is there any real way to know if it has a reasonable success rate?

 

What I'd really like to see is much more official restorative justice.

[Bluegoat]

I guess the question to me would be, what is mos likely to resolve the situation positively for as many of the people involved as possible.  I don't see that say, my kids smoking pot would be a situation that would be helped in most cases by involving the police, though there might be exceptions.  If I knew my kid was often driving under the influence and would not listen to reason about that, I might feel the need to call the police about it, to keep other people safe at the least.

 

 

Obviously something like murder would almost certainly require some sort of authoritative intervention.

 

But something like stealing might be a bit more tricky.  If it were possible to deal directly with the people who had been the victims, in some cases that might be a preferable solution.  It would really depend on the circumstances.  Some sort of sexual thing - that might depend too, on the circumstances - at the least if the victim didn't want to involve police I would not have any interest in over-riding that, and if  it were something closer to being rude and inappropriate rather than dangerous other ways of dealing with the situation might be better for all involved. 

 

[Princess Ariel]

If he joined a hate organization that advocated killing innocent people, I'd turn him in.

 

Which Jim Bob and Michelle also failed to do with Josh.

 

Bill

 

 

I am in NO way defending JD, but what hate organization are you referring to?  Do you mean FRC?  Where is there proof of this as I know people who are members and they might like to know (not me).

[Pamela H in Texas]

What I'd really like to see is much more official restorative justice.

 

 

The thing is that those of us in these situations have to evaluate them to determine if that is necessary and at what point.

Just for example, kids come into my home and they display various behaviors.  I have to determine if they ARE an animal abuser or if they simply are clumsy or if they are trying out a behavior for attention/see dog's reaction/etc.  And then there is the fact that it is normal for a 10 month old to pull the dog's hair (driving me batty that the dog won't just stay away from the 10 month old) and pretty typical for hurt children to try out messing with the dog.  But I won't know for a little time if they will stop doing it with some basic safeties in place, training, time to calm down, etc. So when three weeks in the psychologist asks me if this child abuses animals, I don't know.  I know if they have tried inappropriate behavior a few times, but not if they really feel the need to abuse animals.  

 

Same goes for pooping oneself and simulating or@l s*x and and and and...

 

So what kind of help do they need?  Does the 5yo who mistreats the dog a few times need to be taught "gentle hands" like the 10 month old?  Does he need intensive training?  does he need therapy?  does he need to be in a home with no animals?  does he need to be in a psych ward?  On day one, ten, fifty-five, etc, I have to make that decision the best I can.  Obviously, by a year in, I can tell you whether or not this child abuses animals.  I can't at a week in.  

 

And I could see parents with these situations.  Look up m@st*rb@t*on or other s*xu@l play in terms of children online and you will see that all sorts of parents worry about playing doctor or too much touching.  At what point do you say something?  discipline? seek help?  what kind of help?  etc?  Until you're in the situation,  you just really can only guess.  

 

I *do* think there is a difference between a six yr old and a 17yo.  But where do those lines get drawn?  what age?  what is parenting vs outside help vs law?  It could be challenging to say the least.  

 

Of course, then there is a question about whether your family should be traipsing around on national tv showing the country the best way to live when you have a serious issue to deal with.  

[Tanaqui]

 

I am in NO way defending JD, but what hate organization are you referring to?  Do you mean FRC?  Where is there proof of this as I know people who are members and they might like to know (not me).

 

Well, this is just a quick google search.

 

Back in June of 2010, FRC president Tony Perkins praised the infamous “kill the gays†bill in Uganda, referring to it as an effort to “uphold moral conduct that protects others and in particular the most vulnerable.†The bill that Perkins defended called for life in prison for having sex, even once, with a member of the same sex, or touching someone of the same sex with the intention of having sex.

 

The bill went further, calling for the death penalty for “aggravated homosexuality.†To be clear, Perkins defended a bill that called for people to be put to death for the following (among other things):

• having sex with someone of the same sex multiple times (a “serial†offender)
• having sex with someone of the same sex who is your employee, student, or otherwise under your authority
• having sex with someone of the same sex who is under the age of 18 (regardless of the age difference, e.g. a 19-year-old and a 17-year-old)
• having sex with someone of the same sex that you got drunk
• having sex with someone of the same sex who’s blind or deaf
• having sex with someone of the same sex if you’re HIV+, even if you use protection and the virus is not transmitted

 

The original, which this was excerpted from, has links to those statements.

 

[Princess Ariel]

Okay, thanks, but would like to find a more neutral source.  I googled as well but mostly found this quoted on sites they would not consider as credible. CBS news said they denied the statements of support and tweets were misinterpreted at the time. Just want to be sure before I pass it on.  I will keep looking but appreciate the lead. 

[Slartibartfast]

I just want to say that I can't stand it when drug abuse is considered a victimless crime.

 

I don't consider it victim-less because of those that it supports and the violence that it causes.

[Tanaqui]

 

I don't consider it victim-less because of those that it supports and the violence that it causes.

 

A good deal of which, however, is exacerbated by the criminal status of drugs.

 

[SKL]

It's a hard question, because dealing with the cops would be unlikely to help matters in any way, but there definitely would be a line.

 

I don't think I'd go to the cops about drugs, illegal possession of anything (excluding stolen goods), or a one-off minor physical or stealing incident involving only my own family.  I think there is some gray area beyond that.  For example, if she stole $20 from a friend, we would go to the friend and tell her and figure it out from there.  If she stole some appliances from Best Buy, either we'd take them back to the store (who would probably call the cops) or I'd call the cops.

 

I sure hope I never have to make that kind of decision.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Any serious crime with a victim other than themselves. So no, I wouldn't report drinking but yes, I would report sexual assault.

 

This is my line of thinking.

 

Honestly I might contact a lawyer first though, and have them go in with the lawyer.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I wouldn't report drug or alcohol use.  I'd treat that more as something they might need help with rather than a crime.  The exception would be selling drugs.

 

I'd report the rest of what you listed.

 

And hell, I'd expect my kids to report me for any of that stuff too.  All of that is pretty serious stuff.

[Hoot]

I remember having this conversation with my step-mom when I was around 17 years old. She posed the question and I said that if a family member had committed a crime I would most certainly turn them in to the police. She, on the other hand, was appalled, would never ever turn them in no matter how horrid the crime, seemed quite offended, and said that she felt that she couldn't trust me. She also said that if she ever committed a crime she would at least know now never to come to me. It was a weird conversation and just one of many that made me realize just how crazy she really is.

 

Drug or underage alcohol use I would not report, though we would seek appropriate and certified counsel if necessary. Illegal gun possession would really depend on the situation and his mental state. "Minor" theft from a friend or a small offense we would return the item, apologize, and face the consequences. Repeated "minor" theft would likely result in a police report though.

 

More serious robbery, animal abuse, battery of parent/significant other/child etc., molestation, rape, statutory rape, murder, kidnapping, terrorism, and arson I would report immediately. Illegally selling guns or drug trafficking I would also report immediately.

 

I cannot imagine sheltering a person who has harmed others.

[BigMamaBird]

 

Has anyone else thought about this?  Are there lesser crimes for which you would not call?  Where do you draw the line?  Would you report pot smoking, robbery, illegal gun possession, animal abuse, battery of siblings/parents/SO, illegal drugs, molestation, r*ape, statutory r*ape, murder, kidnapping, terrorism, arson, underage drinking, anything else?  Does anyone want to dialogue about this?

 

I would report all of those.  I might not report underaged drinking to the police if it were just dumb kids sneaking off into the woods with one or two beers.  But they would still severely punished by us parents.

[Melissa in Australia]

A good deal of which, however, is exacerbated by the criminal status of drugs.

:confused1:  :confused1: :confused1:  

 

 

So glad your life isn't affected by people who use drugs.

 

 

 

Drugs destroy people's life. not only the user, but their children, their relatives and the whole community.

 

 

 

 

I wish that the penalties for drug dealers was increased.

[Guest]

I mulled this for awhile. Truthfully I'd probably report anything, including alcohol and minor theft. I would have a very hard time with my conscience if I didnt.

[Tanaqui]

 

I wish that the penalties for drug dealers was increased.

 

Ah yes, when a broken system isn't working what we really need is more of the same. Is there any evidence that prison time works to decrease drug dealing or use?

 

Drugs destroy people's life. not only the user, but their children, their relatives and the whole community.

 

Sending people to prison for relatively minor offenses destroys their lives and breaks apart families and communities.

 

Alcohol abuse can destroy people's lives just as easily as drug use, but our great experiment with Prohibition saw that that approach is counterproductive.

[Melissa in Australia]

Ah yes, when a broken system isn't working what we really need is more of the same. Is there any evidence that prison time works to decrease drug dealing or use?

 

 

Sending people to prison for relatively minor offenses destroys their lives and breaks apart families and communities.

 

Alcohol abuse can destroy people's lives just as easily as drug use, but our great experiment with Prohibition saw that that approach is counterproductive.

here if you were using drugs and you kill someone your jail sentence is reduced - often to only a few years. ( cause obviously you had no control over yourself)

 

if you have a substance abuse problem then you can get most fines waved. You can get government payments without all the rigmarole non drug users have to do. And if you have a Heroin problem the government will even give you free methadone.

 

 

Has this reduce the problems with drug use? not at all, rather use is increasing rapidly along with increases in the number of  families destroyed, increase of violence and sadness that it involves.

[Melissa in Australia]

I'd like to see more, vastly more, policing focus on the 'king pins' of the illegal drug industry, and decriminalising personal use will free up some resources to do that.

 

I don't know about the extra social security payments etc. I don't think that's so. As far as sentencing goes, I'd have to see stats.

 

I agree that ice is a bit of a challenge to the idea of decriminalising use - given violence and delusions are a side effect. It's all a mess. I mean, binge drinking has those effects as well...

 not extra, just the regular. it is absolutely  so. last year I had to fight Centrelink to try and keep ds then 16 on a health care card and FTB - as I was homeschooling and in Vic. all the paper work etc involved in the reply to my appeals had written on it that there is exemptions  available for people with substance abuse problems.

 

One of my children had a fishing fine last month. written right on the form was that if he had a substance abuse problem then the fine would be waived.

 

I taught at a school that had approx. 80% of students from drug user parents. The major problems that those students had! classes were kept to 10 students and every class had aids.  I was there for 3 weeks, during that time the whole school had to go into lockdown because a drug affected parent rocked up to school and started hitting the principal. This is not a mostly indigenous community. it is way worse in those communities. Drug use damages the children of the user- it destroys families and communities.

 

Using drugs is the most selfish thing a person can possibly do.  Making drug use legal will free up no resources, as all those resources plus extra will be needed to counter all the destruction to humanity.

[Tanaqui]

Don't you think it might be better to tackle the reasons why people start using drugs?

[Melissa in Australia]

Don't you think it might be better to tackle the reasons why people start using drugs?

boredom, peer pressure, introduced by family and friends, finding that drug use in the beginning enhances having a good time and performance enhancing ability.  How are you going to tackle those by making it legal and even more accessible?

 

 

 

 

 

It was found that in the next town over a large amount  of the junior Aus rules football players were being supplied ice- it improved their game. These are kids under 16. These are small country towns I am talking about.

 

There are 'academics' what to make it legal to supply LSD to junior high school students to enhance their artwork.

 

How would making it legal address these major issues?