WWYD in this situation re homeschool vs public school--UPDATE in Original Post

[HSmomof2]

For financial reasons mostly, our dc are in ps this year for the first time. Ds(12) is in 6th grade at our local middle school. I posted about him a few months ago because he's struggled with fitting in and making friends a lot this year. We were considering taking him out at Christmas break, but decided to finish the year at school. The social situation has not improved. Ds is desperate to make a friend at school, which has contributed to doing some foolish things---hyperventilating on purpose to try to pass out because some kids told him to try it. There may be more that I don't know about. His language has become an issue with swearing frequently. His grades are also not good (C's mostly with a couple B's). He is extremely disorganized, forgets to bring home his work, forgets to turn in completed work, etc. I've tried talking with his teachers and the counselor, but they just send me a list of missing assignments that Ds has no idea where they are. He is in the school's homework lunch where basically during lunchtime, he goes to a classroom to work on missing assignments. He has not been to actual lunch since before Christmas. He denies it, but I think he doesn't mind not going to lunch because he has no one to eat with.
Dd(10) is in 4th grade and basically doing well. She has one good friend and does well in class.

Despite seriously looking, I've only been able to find a part-time job locally, which I could still do and homeschool. Our debts are paid off, so financially things are much better.Our plan was to sign Ds up for a co-op next year and bring him home. Maybe Dd, too. I brought this up today, as I have to register for the co-op next week, and they sent me the class list. Both Ds and Dd do not want to be homeschooled again. They said they felt like "freaks" when they were homeschooled, and that I need to understand their education is not about me. I should stop trying to pretend to be a teacher. Also, they will never make any friends if we take them out of school. It will basically ruin their lives. Obviously, this was very hurtful to me, and most certainly not ok for them to say in the way it was said. I was just so taken aback. They are usually pretty much respectful and kind children. I know the decision is ultimately not theirs to make, but at their ages forcing them to be home may not work out so well. Ds was never easy to homeschool. He'd really prefer to do no type of school at all. Obviously that's not an option. I'm very concerned for him both academically and socially. We have to make a decision by the end of the week regarding the co-op. I don't want to waste our money and their time registering if we aren't going to homeschool. But, I also don't want to lose the opportunity to be in the co-op if we do. I planned to be very intentional about helping Ds be involved in activities where he could develop positive friendships---co-op, youth group (one at the co-op and at church, which are many of the same kids), swim team, and music lessons. Also because of my work schedule, Dh would be home one day/week to do the schooling with them. I think this would be very good for both dc, especially Ds.
Sorry this is so long, but wwyd regarding schooling in this situation?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

UPDATE:

We visited the Catholic school, and while it seems like a nice school, I don't think it's a good fit for ds. It's smaller than I realized (less than 200 students for grades PreK-8). The principal said that while ds is certainly welcome to enroll, there are less than 10 students attending the school that are not Catholic. I think if he's already having problems fitting in, this may be tough to fit in as well. We only have one Catholic church in our area, so these kids have probably known each other since kindergarten and attend church together. May be tough to break into that group at 7th grade.

 

In the afternoon, we visited the co-op. There are a lot of kids his age there---especially compared to our old co-op that had become much 'younger' over the years as older kids went to school. A couple boys his age took him on a tour while we met with the director. This seems like a much better fit for us.....I regret not looking for another co-op a year or two ago. Ds was pretty excited about this option, and has been warming up to coming back home. We ended up registering him for classes for the fall--- a speech/debate class, PE, art, and cooking (which he is particularly happy about). They also have a very active youth group that meets weekly for co-op kids 7th grade and up.

 

Dd came to us that evening and asked if she could be homeschooled again, too. She thought the co-op sounded fun, and says she thinks she'll feel 'left out' if she has to get up and go to school every day and ds is home. We said she is welcome to be homeschooled, but can still think about it over the summer. I did get her registered in co-op classes as well, though.

 

I talked to my mother, who at first tried to deny she said anything, but then admitted to it. She says she was talking to my dad, and dc must have overheard her. I told her that I appreciate her watching dc while I'm at work, but that she needs to keep her opinions/comments to herself when dc are present. If she has a concern with me, she needs to talk to me privately. She did apologize and seems to be ok.....not thrilled with the homeschooling idea, but ok with it.

 

So, I'm going to spend the next couple months reading/researching/reorganizing. Going to spend some time seriously reflecting on what didn't work in our homeschool before and start getting things in place for the fall. Thanks again for everyone's help! :-)

[Miss Tick]

I don't have any advice, but I wanted to extend my sympathies. That sounds like a really tough decision.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Oh, Bethany Grace. Before I could decide anything I'd have to wait until I could breathe again. ((( :grouphug: ))) after what they said.

 

I remember once my son hurt a mentor SO bad by saying something important in such a hurtful way -- I remember telling the man that just finding the maturity and words to express themselves about an opinion or concept is one difficult skill for tweens and young teens, and learning to do it tactfully and graciously is another, even more difficult, skill to master. I think that's what happened to you, there, and I'm so sorry. That would have just floored me.

 

Just so you hear it somewhere, you weren't pretending to be a teacher and you aren't to blame if your kids felt like freaks.

 

I think I'd be pretty reluctant to bring ds home, even though school is not all that awesome. I'd hate the lack of communication and the homework lunches, a LOT, but he's pretty much telling you he's going to blame you for everything if you pull him out. I think if I really thought I could turn his attitude around and hs'ing was right for him in the long run, I'd have to pull out all the stops and really sell it. Archery courses, unschooling, clubs and activities, whatever a magical childhood might look like to him, and see if he bites. But if you can't afford to be Mary Poppins and don't have time because reality, and he's not interested, maybe try to leverage community resources more? An involved and non-judgy church, or sports or something?

 

Dd is easier b/c she doesn't seem to be at risk at school and firmly doesn't want to homeschool. I always want to leave dc wherever they are if it's working.

 

I'm going to say a prayer for you. I would be a ball of emotions and nerves over all of this. I love how you are listening to your kids even though it hurts. That's going to be a win for you, in the long run, just as a really good Mom.

[itsheresomewhere]

Being very blunt here- let me say that youth group and the kids from church really gave me a eye opening education.  Not that I am saying that all youth groups are like that but the common thought that those are the nice kids/good influences crack me up. 

 

Your DS is 12.  He does need to have some say in his education.  You really need to think about how it was homeschooling him.  It sounds like it was not easy and probably stressful.  What are your other options?  Have you looked at any private schools?  Some do offer scholarships.  If I were you, I would really do some deep thinking on this and not make my decision based on the coop. 

[HSmomof2]

Oh, Bethany Grace. Before I could decide anything I'd have to wait until I could breathe again. ((( :grouphug: ))) after what they said.

 

I remember once my son hurt a mentor SO bad by saying something important in such a hurtful way -- I remember telling the man that just finding the maturity and words to express themselves about an opinion or concept is one difficult skill for tweens and young teens, and learning to do it tactfully and graciously is another, even more difficult, skill to master. I think that's what happened to you, there, and I'm so sorry. That would have just floored me.

 

Just so you hear it somewhere, you weren't pretending to be a teacher and you aren't to blame if your kids felt like freaks.

 

I think I'd be pretty reluctant to bring ds home, even though school is not all that awesome. I'd hate the lack of communication and the homework lunches, a LOT, but he's pretty much telling you he's going to blame you for everything if you pull him out. I think if I really thought I could turn his attitude around and hs'ing was right for him in the long run, I'd have to pull out all the stops and really sell it. Archery courses, unschooling, clubs and activities, whatever a magical childhood might look like to him, and see if he bites. But if you can't afford to be Mary Poppins and don't have time because reality, and he's not interested, maybe try to leverage community resources more? An involved and non-judgy church, or sports or something?

 

Dd is easier b/c she doesn't seem to be at risk at school and firmly doesn't want to homeschool. I always want to leave dc wherever they are if it's working.

 

I'm going to say a prayer for you. I would be a ball of emotions and nerves over all of this. I love how you are listening to your kids even though it hurts. That's going to be a win for you, in the long run, just as a really good Mom.

Thank you for saying this.

 

I really never knew they felt this way. Neither wanted to go to ps. We were very active homeschoolers, were out and about a lot, visited with people, certainly never isolated. The only negative homeschool comment I know of that Ds had was from the assistant taekwondo instructor, and it was more out of ignorance than meanness.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Thank you for saying this.

 

I really never knew they felt this way. Neither wanted to go to ps. We were very active homeschoolers, were out and about a lot, visited with people, certainly never isolated. The only negative homeschool comment I know of that Ds had was from the assistant taekwondo instructor, and it was more out of ignorance than meanness.

 

That makes me wonder what they hear about homeschooling at ps. Maybe they were mostly OK with it until they heard negative talk about hs'ing at school. I don't know how you'd find out if that was happening.

 

That happened to one of my sons at work, at age 16! He spent several months being anti-hs, after enjoying it for his whole life. (He came around when he was actually offered the possibility of going to school, looked into it, and decided hs'ing was better. LOL)

[HSmomof2]

Being very blunt here- let me say that youth group and the kids from church really gave me a eye opening education. Not that I am saying that all youth groups are like that but the common thought that those are the nice kids/good influences crack me up.

 

Your DS is 12. He does need to have some say in his education. You really need to think about how it was homeschooling him. It sounds like it was not easy and probably stressful. What are your other options? Have you looked at any private schools? Some do offer scholarships. If I were you, I would really do some deep thinking on this and not make my decision based on the coop.

No, I know the 'church kids' aren't all wonderful influences. I'm not naive about that. We do know a number of these particular kids, though, and most are nice kids. I thought it would be good for Ds to be able to see some of the same kids during the week. I know Ds is going to have to buy in to whatever we do for his education. And, he's going to have to learn to make good decisions morally, socially and academically. This scares me because he's so desperate for friends at this time.

There are only two private schools in driving distance. One is $20,000/year and has a not so great reputation for bullying that goes ignored among the wealthier kids. The other is a Catholic school. It's more affordable, but we're not Catholic (Lutheran), so I don't know how that would be. (I have talked with the principal of this school and she said 95% of the students are Catholic, but we would of course be welcome to enroll). I suppose it is a possibility.

[HSmomof2]

That makes me wonder what they hear about homeschooling at ps. Maybe they were mostly OK with it until they heard negative talk about hs'ing at school. I don't know how you'd find out if that was happening.

 

That happened to one of my sons at work, at age 16! He spent several months being anti-hs, after enjoying it for his whole life. (He came around when he was actually offered the possibility of going to school, looked into it, and decided hs'ing was better. LOL)

This is possible, especially since this is the first time I've heard them be so negative about it.

[kiana]

That makes me wonder what they hear about homeschooling at ps. Maybe they were mostly OK with it until they heard negative talk about hs'ing at school. I don't know how you'd find out if that was happening.

 

That happened to one of my sons at work, at age 16! He spent several months being anti-hs, after enjoying it for his whole life. (He came around when he was actually offered the possibility of going to school, looked into it, and decided hs'ing was better. LOL)

I think this is it.

 

Only you can know how your son will respond, but some conditions on "you can stay in PS if you get rid of the disrespectful behavior and maintain a 2.0" or something like that would seem reasonable to me.

[Desert Strawberry]

I agree you are likely hearing pushback from the school setting.

I would pull them out yesterday. Your son, definitely, daughter, maybe not.

School is not going well. Clearly. You would be negligent to allow a 12 yo to make a major life choice based on peer pressure and a desire to not be educated. 

I have never done a co-op, not faced that kind of resistance. I can't give advice there.

What I did with my reluctant sixth grader was help him choose some possible careers that he would find appealing then decided on his education from there. Once he had some buy in (you will need this skill to do this job), he had become quite eager. It sounds like your boy might benefit from some guidance and perhaps a different educational track from the one you would choose.

 

[NittanyJen]

I would hope not, but I really must wonder based on the specificity of what was said-- you "pretending to be a teacher"-- if some of the negative blowback they have heard at school about homeschooling has come from faculty who feel threatened by homeschooling.  That would be a weird thing for a kid to say.  I'd be curious to find out why they said it, once I had calmed down a bit.

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm with Strawberry on this one.

[Saddlemomma]

I agree you are likely hearing pushback from the school setting.

I would pull them out yesterday. Your son, definitely, daughter, maybe not.

School is not going well. Clearly. You would be negligent to allow a 12 yo to make a major life choice based on peer pressure and a desire to not be educated.

I have never done a co-op, not faced that kind of resistance. I can't give advice there.

What I did with my reluctant sixth grader was help him choose some possible careers that he would find appealing then decided on his education from there. Once he had some buy in (you will need this skill to do this job), he had become quite eager. It sounds like your boy might benefit from some guidance and perhaps a different educational track from the one you would choose.

I couldn't agree more with you.

[Mom22ns]

The other is a Catholic school. It's more affordable, but we're not Catholic (Lutheran), so I don't know how that would be. (I have talked with the principal of this school and she said 95% of the students are Catholic, but we would of course be welcome to enroll). I suppose it is a possibility.

 

Catholic schools often work well for non-catholic students - at least the one here does. I would consider this option.

 

I can't manage to decide what else I would do in your position. I wouldn't want to leave you ds in ps, but I also wouldn't want to force him home against his will, at 12, that could be a real nightmare. I agree, the negative opinions of homeschooling probably came from ps. Joining the coop and finding other homeschoolers he can relate to might help. It might also make him separate himself from other homeschoolers. My kids never related well to other homeschoolers after being in ps. They thought homeschoolers were weird. (They've homeschooled for 7 years now and never changed their minds.) It didn't stop them from wanting to homeschool or loving homschooling, but it definitely shifted their perspective permanently.

[clementine]

I will say that one of the hardest tasks there is, is to homeschool a reluctant student - especially after elementary school.  I have had friends put their child(ren) in ps because of the child's unwillingness to 'do school' for the parents.  About 90% of those kids do better (and follow deadlines) at school, because there is very little wiggle room with expectations.  

 

If you do decide to bring them home, prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for the resistance & backlash.  It's definitely do-able, but it may wear you out.  

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Liza Q]

Since your husband is willing to take over one day a week, I am assuming that he also thinks that going back to homeschooling is the best thing for your son? If so, have him speak to your son, sort of man to man. That definitely takes you out of the picture, probably dials down the emotion, and hopefully leads to a productive discussion.

[PeterPan]

If he was that socially involved in co-ops, youth groups, etc. before ps, did he have friends?  What you've described with his school work and passivity can be common with ADHD or other issues.  Is it possible he has something else going on, something intrinsic to him, that has nothing to do with where he's schooled?

 

I'd pull him out just over the lunch thing.  That's absolutely absurd.  You can't function without lunch because your blood sugar drops.  No wonder he's having problems.  You can make a written request for evals and they can create a 504 and get him some supports.  Either INTERVENE or remove him.  

 

And no, I wouldn't give a flying flip what a 12 yo thought about his education.  Just the fact that you said you have to have buy-in, well I'm sorry but that's how my ds is.  When you start into this list of executive function issues, social issues, no friends, anxiety (how it sounds), manipulatability, etc., it just makes you wonder what isn't being caught.  You have the LEGAL RIGHT to make a formal written request for evals from the school.  You don't have to wait around wondering.  And frankly, I'd do it now, TODAY.  That starts the ball rolling on the number of days they have to get the evals scheduled and done.  Do not trust the system to solve your problems.  You have to get in there and get active and involved and get them solved yourself.  He could definitely get 504 supports for the EF issues.  They could be doing things to help him if you asked, but you have to ask IN WRITING.  

[HSmomof2]

If he was that socially involved in co-ops, youth groups, etc. before ps, did he have friends? What you've described with his school work and passivity can be common with ADHD or other issues. Is it possible he has something else going on, something intrinsic to him, that has nothing to do with where he's schooled?

 

I'd pull him out just over the lunch thing. That's absolutely absurd. You can't function without lunch because your blood sugar drops. No wonder he's having problems. You can make a written request for evals and they can create a 504 and get him some supports. Either INTERVENE or remove him.

 

And no, I wouldn't give a flying flip what a 12 yo thought about his education. Just the fact that you said you have to have buy-in, well I'm sorry but that's how my ds is. When you start into this list of executive function issues, social issues, no friends, anxiety (how it sounds), manipulatability, etc., it just makes you wonder what isn't being caught. You have the LEGAL RIGHT to make a formal written request for evals from the school. You don't have to wait around wondering. And frankly, I'd do it now, TODAY. That starts the ball rolling on the number of days they have to get the evals scheduled and done. Do not trust the system to solve your problems. You have to get in there and get active and involved and get them solved yourself. He could definitely get 504 supports for the EF issues. They could be doing things to help him if you asked, but you have to ask IN WRITING.

I should have mentioned we've been down the evaluation road already. I did this after I posted about his struggles last fall. I requested (in writing)an eval and spoke with the school psychologist about it. She said the first part was that he would be 'observed' for a certain amount of time and all his work/test scores reviewed. After this observation time, the committee that does the 504's and IEP's determined no further eval was needed for him. From what I understand, it was because his test scores are too high, and his grades on his work are good (when they're actually turned in). And while the other kids don't seem to like him, his teachers all do and all commented that he is engaged during class, paying attention, etc. So, the school psychologist told me she thought the issues were more related to needing to work on being organized and having social difficulties 'because he didn't have friends from elementary school to transition with'. The psychologist also said if we suspected ADHD, which she didn't from her observations, that we should see his doctor. Saw the pediatrician in March for his regular check-up. Pediatrician said he also does not suspect ADHD, but if we want a neuropsych referral he would give us one. Since we'd have to pay for that ourselves, and no one else is suspecting any LD's, we just don't know how valuable that would be at this point.

 

ETA: Yes, he did have friends when he was homeschooled. Before going to school, he's never had trouble making friends. We still see a couple of his co-op friends, but it's not very regular anymore since they live 40 miles away. One of the problems with our old co-op was that people came from a very spread out area that made getting together outside of co-op difficult. The co-op we're looking at for next year is closer, with more members living in our area, and offer more activities (field trips, game nights, youth group, etc) outside of co-op.

He's extremely extroverted and says he felt lonely at home, even though we were out of the house involved in something 4 days/week. He's said that even though he doesn't have any friends, he likes being around other kids every day. It does concern me that he feels he needs to be surrounded by other kids all day, even though the environment he's currently in is so bad for him. He's been isolated at school (other kids leaving the table at lunch when he sat down), is called 'nerd' by others as he walks down the hall, got his haircut and spent 3 days being called a 'retard' by a couple boys in band. He won't report anything to the counselor because 'it will just make things worse.' I did contact the counselor anyway, and she said she'd be on the lookout for any bullying. Well, the kids are smarter than that. They're not going to do or say anything when she's around. So, he gets up every day hopeful that it will be the day he makes a friend at school, only to come home sad that didn't happen. I'm really concerned about this aspect more than anything else.

ETA: He does get to eat a lunch, it just has to be in a classroom where he's supposed to be catching up on his work. They're not causing him to starve.

[MomatHWTK]

You have a 12 year old boy who is falling through the cracks academically, becoming disrespectful and drawing further away from you daily.  What could be a better investment of your money that to pull out all stops to find out if there is a reason?  You won't get a do over when he's 18.  Do everything and anything you can now to find out and get him whatever he needs. Unleash the mommy bear within you.    :grouphug:

[fairfarmhand]

"The kids are mean to you...you don't get to be around them at lunch because your work isn't caught up...they call you names...and you like being around them?"

 

I think he's probably echoing what he's heard at school.

 

I would start spelling some stuff out for him "School is about learning and getting your work done. This isn't happening. I have an option to help you do better academically, avoid bullies and jerks, and I really want to improve this situation. If you could have 3 things change about homeschooling, what would it be? How would the ideal homeschool day look? What things can I do to help you have the best of both worlds? I can see that you didn't like homeschooling the way we did it before. Fine. So lets figure out how to make it work for us."

 

If that conversation didn't go well, then I would lay out the criteria "If you don't keep a decent GPA, keep losing your schoolwork, and don't lose the attitude, we are just going to have to try something different...like homeschooling."

[HSmomof2]

Wanted to add some info about the 'social' part of this problem to get some input. Ds has always been able to make friends easily with other homeschooled kids or kids in other group/class settings. However, when he's been in more unsupervised, kid-led groups, like the school hallways/cafeteria and even our old neighborhood, he seems to be a bully magnet. I'm not exactly sure why this is. Ds is outgoing and very friendly. He looks like a regular kid---has regular hair, wears regular clothes, etc. Just saying that he doesn't 'stand out' in any physical way. Despite his grades, Ds is very bright. When he speaks, I think is when other kids pick up that he's a little 'different'. He goes very deep into things that interest him and becomes an expert on it (music, space, snakes/reptiles, rocks & minerals, sea creatures, and Minecraft).

 

Before we enrolled him in school, I talked to them about him being placed in their gifted program. They gave him the CogAT. He had to be in the 90th percentile in both the math and language sections. He scored 98th percentile in language, but 87th in math, so they said no. I did appeal this, and the appeals committee still said no. I asked if we got our own evaluation with IQ testing, they said no, they only accept their own CogAT test results. Obviously, the school district is not going to help Ds, even with a fight from me. Another reason I don't see how leaving him in ps is going to be good for him. He's going to keep trying to 'fit in' where he will never fit in, and he's going to fall through the cracks academically.

[JumpyTheFrog]

So it sounds like your son is being bullied for being bright and liking learning? Maybe all the low grades are his attempt to try to fit in better socially, although it's obviously not working. This environment sounds terrible to me.

[wapiti]

What testing did the school do?  There may be some info in there, hiding in the subtest scores (e.g. if they did a WISC); maybe everything's fantastic from a processing perspective and his grades are for other reasons (e.g. fitting in, bored, etc.), or maybe everything's not fantastic from a processing perspective.  I'd dig up that report and look for the subtest scores.

 

As for the social angle and the psych reference to not transitioning with other kids from elementary, I don't think that has credibility at all (if that were true and significant, that statement would reflect very poorly on the other kids and/or the school social culture).

[lllll]

..

[HSmomof2]

What testing did the school do? There may be some info in there, hiding in the subtest scores (e.g. if they did a WISC); maybe everything's fantastic from a processing perspective and his grades are for other reasons (e.g. fitting in, bored, etc.), or maybe everything's not fantastic from a processing perspective. I'd dig up that report and look for the subtest scores.

 

As for the social angle and the psych reference to not transitioning with other kids from elementary, I don't think that has credibility at all (if that were true and significant, that statement would reflect very poorly on the other kids and/or the school social culture).

They did only the CogAT. That is their only determining test for their gifted program. I agree that him not having kids from elementary school to 'transition' with is baloney. She knows he was homeschooled, so I think that was her way of letting me know his 'social issues' are my fault. No, I don't buy that. I've been in the school during lunch time volunteering and chaperoned their first dance. From what I saw, the social culture is pretty Lord of the Flies. They rely on their one security guard to monitor 800 kids.

 

ETA: After typing that out about the security guard....it seems a little surreal to me that the fact they need a security guard in 6th grade should be more alarming to me.

[JoJosMom]

I agree you are likely hearing pushback from the school setting.

I would pull them out yesterday. Your son, definitely, daughter, maybe not.

School is not going well. Clearly. You would be negligent to allow a 12 yo to make a major life choice based on peer pressure and a desire to not be educated. 

I have never done a co-op, not faced that kind of resistance. I can't give advice there.

What I did with my reluctant sixth grader was help him choose some possible careers that he would find appealing then decided on his education from there. Once he had some buy in (you will need this skill to do this job), he had become quite eager. It sounds like your boy might benefit from some guidance and perhaps a different educational track from the one you would choose.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Edited to add a :grouphug: .  FWIW, I have an extroverted 12 year old, albeit a very easygoing girl.  Despite that, I have been getting pushback and some outbursts of anger (all directed at me.)  So I think some of what you are getting may be being 12. Best wishes to you.

[Jenny in Florida]

I would start spelling some stuff out for him "School is about learning and getting your work done. This isn't happening. I have an option to help you do better academically, avoid bullies and jerks, and I really want to improve this situation. If you could have 3 things change about homeschooling, what would it be? How would the ideal homeschool day look? What things can I do to help you have the best of both worlds? I can see that you didn't like homeschooling the way we did it before. Fine. So lets figure out how to make it work for us."

 

This is my gut reaction, too. When we got negativity from each of my kids about homeschooling, we took the position that we as the parents had decided that homeschooling was the best option for that child at that time. That decision was made. The ship had sailed. However, we were enthusiastically willing to discuss what form that homeschooling would take.

 

Each of my kids liked accountability and outside validation/grades for at least some subjects. So, we found ways to make that happen. My son needed social contact, time with friends, a schedule that gave him places to go and things to do and people to see. So, we made sure he had them.

 

I'm talking mostly about your son, here, because it doesn't sound to me like your daughter is in as difficult a place. You're his parent. Obviously, you know much more about your son and his situation and your family's needs than the rest of us do. But, honestly, it doesn't sound from what you've posted here like school is a healthy or even especially educational place for him to be. 

 

He doesn't want to return to homeschooling the way you did it before? Fine. There are countless ways to homeschool. With his input, you guys can find  way to make it work for him.

[LucyStoner]

I think that if you put them into school before primarily for your financial considerations and they truly want to stay now, you should hear them and do what needs to be done to get better services for your son and put a good faith effort into making what they want work. I'm not saying you haven't tried but there are channels you have to push to get things done at a lot of schools. Don't be afraid to call the district or even the state when the school isn't being forthcoming with services. The squeaky wheel and all that. Maybe it won't work out and you bring them home. At their ages though, their opinion really does matter.

 

Also, can you meet some of the kids from the closer co-op? Maybe making those connections face to face over the Spring and Summer will shift his thinking.

 

Can he retest on their CogAt for the coming year? Have you requested an evaluation for special ed services in writing? Did you check with the state education board if they are really allowed to not allow you to test on your own for the gifted placement appeal? Schools give out incorrect and sometimes illegal information sometimes. Is there another school that he could go to in the fall?

 

Edited a bit.

[fairfarmhand]

by the way, I am so sorry your kids were so hurtful with their words. That's a horrible thing to say. i think you might want to see if dad can mention to your kids that you were hurt by their tactlessness.  They are old enough to consider their words.

 

My dd was 8 or so when she made a terribly unkind remark. I went to my room and cried. Later on my dh told her how hurtful she was to me, and she ended up apologizing for her unkindness.

 

However, it would depend on the kid. Some 12 yos intend to be hurtful. When mine was 12 she often intended her hurt to go deep.

 

If you were only *playing* teacher for all those years, then why haven't they completely flunked out of school so far?

[HSmomof2]

I think that if you put them into school before primarily for your financial considerations and they truly want to stay now, you should hear them and do what needs to be done to get better services for your son and put a good faith effort into making what they want work. Maybe it won't work out and you bring them home. At their ages though, their opinion really does matter.

 

Can he retest on the CogAt? Have you requested an evaluation for special ed services in writing? Did you check with the state education board if they are really allowed to not allow you to test on your own for the gifted placement appeal? Schools give out incorrect and sometimes illegal information sometimes. Is there another school that he could go to in the fall?

He cannot do the CogAT again as they don't admit new 7th or 8th graders into the gifted program. It ends in 8th grade anyway. I did request an eval in writing. They did start the process, but after he was 'observed' and records reviewed, the Special Ed committee decided further evaluation was not warranted. We could do a waiver request to see if he could attend the other middle school in our district, though I don't know that would be an improvement.

[LucyStoner]

He cannot do the CogAT again as they don't admit new 7th or 8th graders into the gifted program. It ends in 8th grade anyway. I did request an eval in writing. They did start the process, but after he was 'observed' and records reviewed, the Special Ed committee decided further evaluation was not warranted. We could do a waiver request to see if he could attend the other middle school in our district, though I don't know that would be an improvement.

What do they do for highly capable high schoolers? Also, you can appeal the special ed decision based on his ongoing situation. They really do have to test him, even if they don't want to. A great many schools neglect to do this.

[HSmomof2]

What do they do for highly capable high schoolers? Also, you can appeal the special ed decision based on his ongoing situation. They really do have to test him, even if they don't want to. A great many schools neglect to do this.

High schoolers just take honors and AP classes. There's not a specific gifted program in high school here. As for an eval, I think if we do that, I'd rather do a neuropsych eval privately and pay for it. I don't really trust the school district's competence at this point.

[wapiti]

They did only the CogAT. That is their only determining test for their gifted program.

 

No other testing re: special needs issues?  CogAT is junk IMO.  ETA, never mind, I re-read your earlier post about grades not being low enough, basically, for other testing.

[justasque]

 The other is a Catholic school. It's more affordable, but we're not Catholic (Lutheran), so I don't know how that would be. (I have talked with the principal of this school and she said 95% of the students are Catholic, but we would of course be welcome to enroll). I suppose it is a possibility.

 

 

 He's been isolated at school (other kids leaving the table at lunch when he sat down), is called 'nerd' by others as he walks down the hall, got his haircut and spent 3 days being called a 'retard' by a couple boys in band. He won't report anything to the counselor because 'it will just make things worse.' I did contact the counselor anyway, and she said she'd be on the lookout for any bullying. Well, the kids are smarter than that. They're not going to do or say anything when she's around. So, he gets up every day hopeful that it will be the day he makes a friend at school, only to come home sad that didn't happen. I'm really concerned about this aspect more than anything else.

 

 

 

Wanted to add some info about the 'social' part of this problem to get some input. Ds has always been able to make friends easily with other homeschooled kids or kids in other group/class settings. However, when he's been in more unsupervised, kid-led groups, like the school hallways/cafeteria and even our old neighborhood, he seems to be a bully magnet. I'm not exactly sure why this is. Ds is outgoing and very friendly. He looks like a regular kid---has regular hair, wears regular clothes, etc. Just saying that he doesn't 'stand out' in any physical way. Despite his grades, Ds is very bright. When he speaks, I think is when other kids pick up that he's a little 'different'. He goes very deep into things that interest him and becomes an expert on it (music, space, snakes/reptiles, rocks & minerals, sea creatures, and Minecraft).

 

Before we enrolled him in school, I talked to them about him being placed in their gifted program. They gave him the CogAT. He had to be in the 90th percentile in both the math and language sections. He scored 98th percentile in language, but 87th in math, so they said no. I did appeal this, and the appeals committee still said no. I asked if we got our own evaluation with IQ testing, they said no, they only accept their own CogAT test results. Obviously, the school district is not going to help Ds, even with a fight from me. Another reason I don't see how leaving him in ps is going to be good for him. He's going to keep trying to 'fit in' where he will never fit in, and he's going to fall through the cracks academically.

 

 

 From what I saw, the social culture is pretty Lord of the Flies. They rely on their one security guard to monitor 800 kids.

 

ETA: After typing that out about the security guard....it seems a little surreal to me that the fact they need a security guard in 6th grade should be more alarming to me.

 

I would be seriously considering the Catholic school.  He needs an environment where the kids have at least a basic set of manners and behavior standards.  The differences between Lutherans and Catholics are not nearly as large as the differences between kids raised in a "Lord of the Flies" culture vs. one where basic values are upheld.  I know many non-Catholic families who have found Catholic school to be a good fit for their child.  You need to ask yourself, "Where are the smart, nice kids in our community?  The ones whose families value education (perhaps enough to pay for it) and who uphold decent behavior standards for their kids?", and put him there.  The Catholic school might be that place.  

[ElizabethB]

I would be seriously considering the Catholic school. He needs an environment where the kids have at least a basic set of manners and behavior standards. The differences between Lutherans and Catholics are not nearly as large as the differences between kids raised in a "Lord of the Flies" culture vs. one where basic values are upheld. I know many non-Catholic families who have found Catholic school to be a good fit for their child. You need to ask yourself, "Where are the smart, nice kids in our community? The ones whose families value education (perhaps enough to pay for it) and who uphold decent behavior standards for their kids?", and put him there. The Catholic school might be that place.

in Little Rock, the Catholic schools were better and cheaper than the Protestant schools. I had several Protestant friends who homeschooled the younger years, then switched to the Catholic schools for the upper years when homeschooling was more demanding.

[Arcadia]

I would check out the Catholic school. The school would probably let your son shadow for a day or two.

Is your son in any youth orchestra or chess club? That is where the public school "nerds" (male and female) gathers in and outside of school.

While the school psych might be condescending, it is true in my local K-8 school that the kids who were in K-5 together has already form cliques and continue the cliques in 6-8. The ones joining in from a k-5 school at 6th grade gets treated as "outsiders". The thing is some of the public school parents has form cliques due to many years of play dates in K-5.

[Reefgazer]

All in all, I feel that young children should not be making the educational decisions; parents should be making them. Once they're teenagers in high school, I can understand them having some input, but your kids age, no.

 

It's so it's hard to tell with your son's behavior what the problem is. It may just be middle school. I don't know about you, but where we are at, the middle school is a nightmare - cursing, drug dealing, disrespectful behavior, minimal academic output. But regardless, I think that your son is not doing well, according to your description, and that needs to change. Having friends and making friends was crucial for my kids, so we joined a co-op specifically for that reason. So if you do decide to bring them home, you might be able to ameliorate the friends issue by having your kids active in the co-op, team sports, or church. Based on your description, I definitely would not keep your son in that middle school; is private school possibility?

 

ETA: just saw that you have the option of a Catholic school. I would definitely look into that. we are not Catholic and if DD had not homeschooled, she would be in Catholic school now.

 

For financial reasons mostly, our dc are in ps this year for the first time. Ds(12) is in 6th grade at our local middle school. I posted about him a few months ago because he's struggled with fitting in and making friends a lot this year. We were considering taking him out at Christmas break, but decided to finish the year at school. The social situation has not improved. Ds is desperate to make a friend at school, which has contributed to doing some foolish things---hyperventilating on purpose to try to pass out because some kids told him to try it. There may be more that I don't know about. His language has become an issue with swearing frequently. His grades are also not good (C's mostly with a couple B's). He is extremely disorganized, forgets to bring home his work, forgets to turn in completed work, etc. I've tried talking with his teachers and the counselor, but they just send me a list of missing assignments that Ds has no idea where they are. He is in the school's homework lunch where basically during lunchtime, he goes to a classroom to work on missing assignments. He has not been to actual lunch since before Christmas. He denies it, but I think he doesn't mind not going to lunch because he has no one to eat with.

Dd(10) is in 4th grade and basically doing well. She has one good friend and does well in class.

 

Despite seriously looking, I've only been able to find a part-time job locally, which I could still do and homeschool. Our debts are paid off, so financially things are much better.Our plan was to sign Ds up for a co-op next year and bring him home. Maybe Dd, too. I brought this up today, as I have to register for the co-op next week, and they sent me the class list. Both Ds and Dd do not want to be homeschooled again. They said they felt like "freaks" when they were homeschooled, and that I need to understand their education is not about me. I should stop trying to pretend to be a teacher. Also, they will never make any friends if we take them out of school. It will basically ruin their lives. Obviously, this was very hurtful to me, and most certainly not ok for them to say in the way it was said. I was just so taken aback. They are usually pretty much respectful and kind children. I know the decision is ultimately not theirs to make, but at their ages forcing them to be home may not work out so well. Ds was never easy to homeschool. He'd really prefer to do no type of school at all. Obviously that's not an option. I'm very concerned for him both academically and socially. We have to make a decision by the end of the week regarding the co-op. I don't want to waste our money and their time registering if we aren't going to homeschool. But, I also don't want to lose the opportunity to be in the co-op if we do. I planned to be very intentional about helping Ds be involved in activities where he could develop positive friendships---co-op, youth group (one at the co-op and at church, which are many of the same kids), swim team, and music lessons. Also because of my work schedule, Dh would be home one day/week to do the schooling with them. I think this would be very good for both dc, especially Ds.

Sorry this is so long, but wwyd regarding schooling in this situation?

[HSmomof2]

I talked with Ds and Dd this afternoon and asked her about some of the things that were said yesterday (like my pretending to be a teacher, etc). This came from my mother. She has been the one providing the anti-homeschool sentiments. Dc go to her house one afternoon each week while I'm at work. She knows Ds is struggling at school and wants to discourage him from being homeschooled again because he needs to be with his peers every day. And he just needs to go through these problems at school and learn to deal with it. I am going to need to wait a little before I talk to her.

[prairiewindmomma]

Well, at least you knew where that's coming from. It's gotta really hurt that it's your mom. May you find a place of grace and patience while you find the right words and actions to set up appropriate boundaries. 

[MomatHWTK]

Oh Dear!  I don't even know what to tell you re: your mom.  It would take me a long time before I could talk instead of yell. 

 

Maybe if you can get past her propaganda, your DS will be onboard with coming home.  :grouphug:

[Arcadia]

I talked with Ds and Dd this afternoon and asked her about some of the things that were said yesterday (like my pretending to be a teacher, etc). This came from my mother.

Is your mother formerly a teacher? My dad is a former teacher and knows I have no patience to teach. He was honestly worried at how I would cope. My ability is in facilitating my kids education though.

 

I have friends who are thinking about homeschooling who's chief concern is how to teach their kids. So they see homeschooling as a parent having the same ability as a school teacher. They won't be saying I am pretending to be a teacher but someone who thinks I am doing a lousy job might think that.

 

Would it be possible to let your daughter stay until end of elementary school and put your son in the catholic school or co-op (from the financial point of view and also your son's social needs).

[solascriptura]

I talked with Ds and Dd this afternoon and asked her about some of the things that were said yesterday (like my pretending to be a teacher, etc). This came from my mother. She has been the one providing the anti-homeschool sentiments. Dc go to her house one afternoon each week while I'm at work. She knows Ds is struggling at school and wants to discourage him from being homeschooled again because he needs to be with his peers every day. And he just needs to go through these problems at school and learn to deal with it. I am going to need to wait a little before I talk to her.

Wow!  This is from your mother?  

 

I would try to talk through this with your ds and try to lead him to the conclusion that homeschooling is the best for him.  His thought process is not rational, but of course he is 12 and that is to be expected.  School does not always equal friends.  It doesn't for many kids.  I would stress this point to him because this is all that he cares about.

[Kiara.I]

I talked with Ds and Dd this afternoon and asked her about some of the things that were said yesterday (like my pretending to be a teacher, etc). This came from my mother. She has been the one providing the anti-homeschool sentiments. Dc go to her house one afternoon each week while I'm at work. She knows Ds is struggling at school and wants to discourage him from being homeschooled again because he needs to be with his peers every day. And he just needs to go through these problems at school and learn to deal with it. I am going to need to wait a little before I talk to her.

 

 

Wow.  Just....wow.

 

I...

 

I can't believe your mother is choosing to deliberately and systematically try to sway your children to disapproving of their mother and being ashamed of their earlier schooling.  That's...

 

So, can you find other childcare?  Stat?

[Eagle]

I talked with Ds and Dd this afternoon and asked her about some of the things that were said yesterday (like my pretending to be a teacher, etc). This came from my mother. She has been the one providing the anti-homeschool sentiments. Dc go to her house one afternoon each week while I'm at work. She knows Ds is struggling at school and wants to discourage him from being homeschooled again because he needs to be with his peers every day. And he just needs to go through these problems at school and learn to deal with it. I am going to need to wait a little before I talk to her.

:grouphug: I'm upset about this and I don't even know your family. Raising children is hard enough without family undermining your efforts. I'm so sorry. :grouphug:

[HSmomof2]

Is your mother formerly a teacher? My dad is a former teacher and knows I have no patience to teach. He was honestly worried at how I would cope. My ability is in facilitating my kids education though.

 

I have friends who are thinking about homeschooling who's chief concern is how to teach their kids. So they see homeschooling as a parent having the same ability as a school teacher. They won't be saying I am pretending to be a teacher but someone who thinks I am doing a lousy job might think that.

 

Would it be possible to let your daughter stay until end of elementary school and put your son in the catholic school (from the financial point of view).

No, neither of my parents were teachers. I have a BS in Developmental Psychology, have worked in ps classes for behavior disordered students, as well as taught preK-K at a private school when dh and I were first married twenty years ago. No, I do not have a teaching certificate. Nor do I (or anyone else) need one to homeschool effectively. This comment from her is especially hurtful and just mean-spirited. She doesn't have to agree with homeschooling, but to just be insulting to me (and saying it to our dc), is so wrong.

 

ETA: It may be possible to put Ds in the Catholic school next year and keep Dd where she is. I don't think we could afford both of them to go. Although I may be able to find a full time job before she would go there too in 6th grade.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

That STINKS about your mother. :cursing:

 

As you've described more about your son's whole picture at school, I've been growing ever more hopeful about the possible Catholic school option. He could have his desire to not homeschool but you might get better academics and better behavior of classmates -- at least you'd know in pretty short order, and could explain to him that those things are a condition of going to school.

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

Wow.  Just....wow.

 

I...

 

I can't believe your mother is choosing to deliberately and systematically try to sway your children to disapproving of their mother and being ashamed of their earlier schooling.  That's...

 

So, can you find other childcare?  Stat?

I literally gasped out loud when I read that it was your MOM who planted these seeds.

 

That is just.....

 

 

Wow.

[TranquilMind]

For financial reasons mostly, our dc are in ps this year for the first time. Ds(12) is in 6th grade at our local middle school. I posted about him a few months ago because he's struggled with fitting in and making friends a lot this year. We were considering taking him out at Christmas break, but decided to finish the year at school. The social situation has not improved. Ds is desperate to make a friend at school, which has contributed to doing some foolish things---hyperventilating on purpose to try to pass out because some kids told him to try it. There may be more that I don't know about. His language has become an issue with swearing frequently. His grades are also not good (C's mostly with a couple B's). He is extremely disorganized, forgets to bring home his work, forgets to turn in completed work, etc. I've tried talking with his teachers and the counselor, but they just send me a list of missing assignments that Ds has no idea where they are. He is in the school's homework lunch where basically during lunchtime, he goes to a classroom to work on missing assignments. He has not been to actual lunch since before Christmas. He denies it, but I think he doesn't mind not going to lunch because he has no one to eat with.

Dd(10) is in 4th grade and basically doing well. She has one good friend and does well in class.

 

Despite seriously looking, I've only been able to find a part-time job locally, which I could still do and homeschool. Our debts are paid off, so financially things are much better.Our plan was to sign Ds up for a co-op next year and bring him home. Maybe Dd, too. I brought this up today, as I have to register for the co-op next week, and they sent me the class list. Both Ds and Dd do not want to be homeschooled again. They said they felt like "freaks" when they were homeschooled, and that I need to understand their education is not about me. I should stop trying to pretend to be a teacher. Also, they will never make any friends if we take them out of school. It will basically ruin their lives. Obviously, this was very hurtful to me, and most certainly not ok for them to say in the way it was said. I was just so taken aback. They are usually pretty much respectful and kind children. I know the decision is ultimately not theirs to make, but at their ages forcing them to be home may not work out so well. Ds was never easy to homeschool. He'd really prefer to do no type of school at all. Obviously that's not an option. I'm very concerned for him both academically and socially. We have to make a decision by the end of the week regarding the co-op. I don't want to waste our money and their time registering if we aren't going to homeschool. But, I also don't want to lose the opportunity to be in the co-op if we do. I planned to be very intentional about helping Ds be involved in activities where he could develop positive friendships---co-op, youth group (one at the co-op and at church, which are many of the same kids), swim team, and music lessons. Also because of my work schedule, Dh would be home one day/week to do the schooling with them. I think this would be very good for both dc, especially Ds.

Sorry this is so long, but wwyd regarding schooling in this situation?

 

All I can say is that attitude took a real dive after the exposure in public school at too early of an age (13-high school).  I regretted that mistake immensely.  Years later, things are better but the whole experience was negative, except for a couple of AP classes and a couple of teachers.   The indoctrination there is insane.  I'm not at all surprised by anything you have said, because this and worse is the kind of stuff that some kids will say to others, so I'm sure that's where they got it. 

 

I know it is easy for someone else to say, but this really isn't personal.  They are just lashing out.  I can't tell you how many times I "ruined" the life of one of my kids, who is now doing phenomenally, and I've heard "You were right, Mom" a few times already while still in the teen years, so don't give up! 

 

Edited:  Have not read entire thread, but your MOM is saying this?  Are you sure they are not twisting what she is saying? I'd be having a talk with Mom. 

[73349]

I think you should check in with the Catholic school ASAP to see if they will take him for next year... and I'd let him know that you will help him with organization if he's willing to accept it, but if he doesn't pull down a certain GPA (maybe a 3.0), he will be coming home.

[HSmomof2]

All I can say is that attitude took a real dive after the exposure in public school at too early of an age (13-high school).  I regretted that mistake immensely.  Years later, things are better but the whole experience was negative, except for a couple of AP classes and a couple of teachers.   The indoctrination there is insane.  I'm not at all surprised by anything you have said, because this and worse is the kind of stuff that some kids will say to others, so I'm sure that's where they got it. 

 

I know it is easy for someone else to say, but this really isn't personal.  They are just lashing out.  I can't tell you how many times I "ruined" the life of one of my kids, who is now doing phenomenally, and I've heard "You were right, Mom" a few times already while still in the teen years, so don't give up! 

 

Edited:  Have not read entire thread, but your MOM is saying this?  Are you sure they are not twisting what she is saying? I'd be having a talk with Mom. 

 That's pretty good to get "You were right, Mom" in the teen years. :laugh:

 

Yes, the social culture and indoctrination at public school is much worse than we expected. I never thought it would be great, but it's far worse than I expected.

 

As for my mother.....yes, I will be having a talk with her, when I'm not as angry and after I talk with dh. I'm guessing she has said many of these things to either my dad or sister within earshot of my dc when they are there. Ds did confirm that she did tell him he just needs to deal with the problems at school.....it's "perfectly normal" and "what all kids have to go through". :confused1:  Both she and my dad have a very nostalgic view of public school from when they were in school in the 1950's. They weren't involved at all with the schools when my sister and I were kids, and we never told them anything that went on even back then in the 90's.

 

ETA: I don't take the "ruining my life" comments from dc all that seriously......isn't it pretty much the mom's job to ruin their kid's lives? Seems to be the case no matter what choices we make. :laugh: