Have we talked about Alecia Pennington?

[zoobie]

How in the world does one obtain a US passport without a birth certificate? I find this alarming. Perhaps someone can give me an explanation, but I do not understand how a person with no identity papers whatsoever could apply for a passport, especially post-911.

 

I also wonder what's up with the name change. There must be a story behind that (I mean, I would understand if the original name were the same as or similar to a derogatory or offensive word, but, Sublett?). As for Alecia having to sign off on it, um...she doesn't exist. No record of a previous name, she's not on file anywhere, no need for her (or any of the previously undocumented children) to be included in paperwork for that. All that need be done is to simply start calling her by another name.

Per a blog post of theirs posted on FJ, Daddy Pennington was led to change his name because his father walked out on his family, so he decided to use the wife's maiden name. (Insomnia + baby with a growth spurt = lots of wasted time on the interwebs.)

[Seasider]

Per a blog post of theirs posted on FJ, Daddy Pennington was led to change his name because his father walked out on his family, so he decided to use the wife's maiden name. (Insomnia + baby with a growth spurt = lots of wasted time on the interwebs.)

"the wife's maiden name" meaning the wife of the dad who walked out (so, his Mom's maiden name), or his own wife's maiden name?

[zoobie]

Does it follow, then, that such people end up as "common law spouses"? The children of these unions have no legal status under inheritance laws?

 

The various sub-cultures in this country amaze me!

Not very many states currently recognize common law marriages. Children without birth certificates would have problems, though DNA testing would allow them to prove relatedness. The estates (such as they may be) would be a hot mess to probate for so so many reasons! Tax liens, questionable issue, maybe maybe not spouses...

[TechWife]

I had to have a bc to get a passport. my kids had to have a bc to get a driver's license - and their own passports.

 

and their ssn of course - which they got as infants.

My son had to have hi birth certificate and both of his parents present in order for him to get his passport. He also had to have a poto I'd , which was his state issued ID card. I think we had to have his SS card too, but I'm not sure

In order to get a state issued I'd card, he had to have his Ssn and proof of state residency (a letter received I the mail was fine.

For his drivers license he had to have the same documents as he had to have for the state ID

[Rivka]

Lisa Pennington appears to be editing her archived posts to make them seem less extreme and controlling.

 

Someone elsewhere quoted, and linked to, a post about children and money:

 

 

 

If a child uses their money only for themselves, they are selfish. I would have them work really hard for very little pay, then tell them they have to use that pay to buy something for someone else.

 

If a child begs for things at the store, they don’t appreciate what they have. First of all, I would never buy them what they are asking for. Then I would take them home and choose 3 things from their room (YOU choose, not them) for them to give away. Not put on a shelf, not take away for a while, GIVE away. The less they have, the more they will appreciate their things.

If a child whines about not getting paid enough then they are showing a “welfare†mentality. I would have them work for free for a day (preferably helping an elderly neighbor or doing a hard, unpleasant job). Feed them well, like you would any workman, but don’t allow them to whine. For every complaint they owe you an extra 15 minutes of work.

 

 

None of those suggestions are in the post about children and money anymore. Ir says "These are some tips for using money to teach lessons" and then doesn't give any tips - just platitudes about selfishness, appreciation, etc. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

 

Edited to add: The Internet Wayback Machine has the original. https://web.archive.org/web/20121122092930/http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

[Corraleno]

Lisa Pennington appears to be editing her archived posts to make them seem less extreme and controlling.

 

Someone elsewhere quoted, and linked to, a post about children and money:

 

 

And there was another post saying that whenever the grandparents gave the children money she would wait until the grandparents left, and then take the money away and put it in the family account.

 

Her posts about privacy were quite eye-opening as well — she believes that teens do not deserve privacy and said that all her kids know that she has the right to go through their drawers, read their mail/email/texts/etc. at any time. And when they leave the house they have to tell her exactly where they will be at all times and when they will be home. This goes for the adult children as well (and the girls are not allowed to date, not even the 24 year old).

[cbollin]

How in the world does one obtain a US passport without a birth certificate? I find this alarming. Perhaps someone can give me an explanation, but I do not understand how a person with no identity papers whatsoever could apply for a passport, especially post-911.

 

 

I didn't see this question answered yet: 

 

a US birth certificate is considered  one way to show "primary evidence of US Citizenship."  If one does not have any way to show "primary evidence of US citizenship", then they have to come up with "Secondary Evidence of US Citizenship".  and this link should explain that further

 

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/information/secondary-evidence.html.

 

As one example, a random person could have find themselves in Census Record (or a properly filled out baptism record), and then present a "Letter of No Record" from the state that couldn't find their original birth certificate.

 

You're correct that you have to have some kind of identity papers.  But it can be done without either a birth certificate or even a "delayed birth certificate"

 

our minor aged children got their passports by using birth certificate and state issued ID card, and having parents go in person with them and show our passports too.  (the rules vary slightly based on age of child at time of application. )

 

sorta off topic

a little PSA here: 

if anyone reading this thread is considering passport application, please make sure the birth certificate has full names of parents.  I had to get one child's certificate re-printed by the county health department as it only had our (parents named)  middle initials instead of middle names.  John C Doe  instead of John Charles Doe.    apparently the rules for passport require full names.  ok.  no worries there. full name was on record at health department, but someone just typed initials back when middle gal was one week old.

[Orthodox6]

At the other end of the spectrum, when my parents die, we shall have to produce their birth certificates in order for them to be buried in the military cemetary. This is a very needed document for people!

[gardenmom5]

TechWife, on 14 Feb 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:TechWife, on 14 Feb 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

My son had to have hi birth certificate and both of his parents present in order for him to get his passport. He also had to have a poto I'd , which was his state issued ID card. I think we had to have his SS card too, but I'm not sure

In order to get a state issued I'd card, he had to have his Ssn and proof of state residency (a letter received I the mail was fine.

For his drivers license he had to have the same documents as he had to have for the state ID

yeah, that too for dudeling.  the rest were old enough they didn't.

they all had to have bcs, and don't remember if they wanted ssns or not.  I just remember how difficult dudeling was about getting a picture . . . . . he hates having his picture taken.  HATES.

 

DMV wanted bcs, and proof of residency  (my license worked for that).  which is ironic, as one dmv was found to have a scam going where illegals could get licenses, no paperwork required.  for a price ugarte.  (those perpetrating it were busted and it was shut down.)

[gardenmom5]

Rivka, on 14 Feb 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

Lisa Pennington appears to be editing her archived posts to make them seem less extreme and controlling.

 

Someone elsewhere quoted, and linked to, a post about children and money:

 

 

 

 

 

None of those suggestions are in the post about children and money anymore. Ir says "These are some tips for using money to teach lessons" and then doesn't give any tips - just platitudes about selfishness, appreciation, etc. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

 

Edited to add: The Internet Wayback Machine has the original. https://web.archive.org/web/20121122092930/http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

I guess she really doesn't understand the internet is forever . . . . .

 

at least she's starting to get a clue that there's a big mass of public opinion that think she's out of line with her kids. - so she's trying to hide the flags.

[ktgrok]

Right. Mine did too and so do others I know. Most midwives keep their records the same as a dr would.

 

But the law at least here is only 7 yrs for medical records. Not 19. 

[Corraleno]

Regarding the name change... According to Alecia, the father changed his own last name to his mother's maiden name some time ago, but did not change the children's names, and those were done last fall. According to the oldest sister, Grace, one of the forms of ID she used to get her drivers license was the name change document, so perhaps that's why it was done. I assume that the parents must have sworn an affidavit and gone to court to get the name changed, but they must also have done something else to prove citizenship so that Grace and Jacob could get licenses. Grace also states that she was born in a hospital, but that there is also no record of her birth — not sure how that is possible??? She says that she is herself trying to get a delayed birth certificate and is having a great deal of trouble, and the dad said in his video that Alecia should try to get a passport instead of a BC, so presumably he knows that it's problematic.

 

And FWIW, someone who says she has known the family for a long time posted on Alecia's FB page that Lisa once bragged about hitting a 15 month old for an hour for disobedience, because he refused to answer her with "mama." :(

[Guest]

What is really scary is, if you read the comments, there are lots of fan girls out there patting her on the head and thanking her for her wisdom. I hope this gives those women a moment to reflect on their own issues.

[ktgrok]

I read the part about money to my husband, whose response was "That's how you raise a serial killer." That's sick. 

[Χά�ων]

I find the young women to be incredibly strong. To have grown up in that house and to be able to walk away and fight them for what she needs to be independent and resist the manipulation. I am impressed. Many people who are much older and have more life experience are unable to break away from abusers. I think this young woman will go far in life.

[justasque]

With a passport and a license, they should be easily able to get a SSN.  I assume they could also get a delayed bc if they ever wanted one.  But how often do you need your birth certificate?  The only time I recall ever needing it was for my dossier when I adopted my kids from a foreign country.  The foreign country wanted my birth certificate IIRC.  Nobody else did.

 

 

My kids needed a birth certificate for team sports (dance, soccer), presumably to show they were of the appropriate age for the team, in case anyone challenged that.  Dance competitions often have, in their rules, a requirement that dancers have their bc available in case of a challenge; I assume other sports may be similar.

 

 

[zoobie]

With a passport and a license, they should be easily able to get a SSN. I assume they could also get a delayed bc if they ever wanted one. But how often do you need your birth certificate? The only time I recall ever needing it was for my dossier when I adopted my kids from a foreign country. The foreign country wanted my birth certificate IIRC. Nobody else did.

 

I needed it for my state Bar application and marriage license. It makes getting a passport and drivers' license much easier. I think you may need it now in my state to get the DL/state ID but I haven't renewed since they changed the law. Many states are making it tougher to get IDs and requiring them for more things, such as voting.

 

My DS needs a copy for Little League baseball tournament teams.

[Guest submarines]

Lisa Pennington appears to be editing her archived posts to make them seem less extreme and controlling.

 

Someone elsewhere quoted, and linked to, a post about children and money:

 

 

 

 

 

None of those suggestions are in the post about children and money anymore. Ir says "These are some tips for using money to teach lessons" and then doesn't give any tips - just platitudes about selfishness, appreciation, etc. http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

 

Edited to add: The Internet Wayback Machine has the original. https://web.archive.org/web/20121122092930/http://thepenningtonpoint.com/2012/01/children-and-money/

That's some perverted shit that you cited. I'm done playing the devil's advocate.

[justasque]

So, for a passport, you need primary evidence of citizenship:
 

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):

• Previously issued, undamaged, and fully valid U.S. Passport (5 year for minors or 10 years for adults)
• *Certified U.S. birth certificate (must meet all of the following requirements): 
  • issued by the City, County, or State of birth
  • Lists bearer's full name, date of birth, and place of birth
  • Lists parent(s) full names
  • Has date filed with registrar's office (must be within one year of birth)
  • Has registrar's signature
  • Has embossed, impressed, or multicolored seal of registrar
• Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
• Naturalization Certificate
• Certificate of Citizenship

It sounds like Alecia (and her siblings) would have none of these.  In that case, they'd have to use secondary evidence:

 

Secondary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship

 

If you cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship, you must submit secondary evidence of U.S. citizenship. Determine what form of secondary evidence is most appropriate for your situation based on the descriptions below.

 

• Early Public Records
  If you were born in the United States and cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship, submit a combination of early public records as evidence of your U.S. citizenship. Early public records must be submitted with a Letter of No Record. Early public records should show your name, date of birth, place of birth, and preferably be created within the first five years of your life. Examples of early public records are:
  • Baptismal certificate
  • Hospital birth certificate
  • Census record
  • Early school record
  • Family bible record
  • Doctor's record of post-natal care
  • Early Public Records are not acceptable when presented alone.
• Delayed Birth Certificate
  If you were born in the United States and cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship because your U.S. Birth Certificate was not filed within the first year of your birth, you may submit a Delayed U.S. Birth Certificate. A Delayed U.S. Birth Certificate filed more than one year after your birth may be acceptable if:
  • It lists the documentation used to create it (preferably early public records), and
  • It is signed by the birth attendant or lists an affidavit signed by the parents.
  • If your Delayed U.S. Birth Certificate does not include these items, it should be submitted together with Early Public Records.
• Letter of No Record
  If you were born in the United States and cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship because you do not have a previous U.S. passport or a certified U.S. birth certificate of any kind, you must present a state-issued Letter of No Record showing:
  • Your name,
  • Your date of birth,
  • The years for which a birth record was searched, and
  • Acknowledgement that no birth certificate was found on file.
  • A Letter of No Record must be submitted together with Early Public Records.
• Form DS-10: Birth Affidavit
  If you were born in the United States and cannot present primary evidence of U.S. citizenship, you may submit Form DS-10: Birth Affidavit as evidence of your U.S. citizenship. The birth affidavit:
  • Must be notarized,
  • Must be submitted in person with Form DS-11,
  • Must be submitted together with early public records,
  • Must be completed by an affiant who has personal knowledge of birth in the U.S.,
  • Must state briefly how the affiant's knowledge was acquired, and
  • Should be completed by an older blood relative.
  • NOTE: If no older blood relative is available, it may be completed by the attending physician or any other person who has personal knowledge of your birth.

...

 

Unacceptable Documents

The following will not be accepted as secondary evidence of U.S. citizenship:

• Voter registration card
• Army discharge paper
• Social Security Card

This is pretty confusing, so I'm not surprised Alecia is frustrated.  Most (all?) of the above options require early public records, of which Alecia has none.  As per Alecia, the midwife wouldn't sign the affidavit form.  I do wonder whether she could get a passport with her grandparents' signatures on an affidavit, but the lack of any other early public records, and the possibility that the grandparents weren't present at or around the time of birth, might be a problem.  I do wonder how the siblings got their passports, and if there is perhaps a family Bible that could be used.

[Word Nerd]

My DD is treasurer for our 4-H club and had to have SSN and a birth certificate to be added to the club's checking account. We had to have a BC to enroll both kids in school as well. That wouldn't be an issue for homeschoolers, but we've needed a copy several times already.

[Annie G]

It's going to be more necessary to have a birth certificate pretty soon- the story below explains why Illinois residents might not be able to use their driver's licenses at airports starting in 2016.

The Daily Herald reports the licenses don't meet requirements set by a 2005 federal law on IDs that was meant to increase security. Illinois doesn't require a birth certificate to get a driver's license, which an Illinois Secretary of State spokesman says is one of the law's mandates.

 

The spokesman says state legislators would have to approve funding for changes to driver's license requirements. The Secretary of State's office previously estimated it would cost $100 million to $150 million to be in compliance.

Driver's licenses meet the federal mandates in 22 states. As early as 2016, the Department of Homeland Security website says travelers with noncompliant driver's licenses would need another valid ID, such as a passport or military ID.

 

 

The REAL ID Act of 2005 has provisions to allow applicants to use an alternate form of proof of birth other than a birth certificate, but if your DMV is like ours, they have a list and if you don't bring exactly what's on the list they turn you away.  Asking DMV workers to pass judgement on whether a piece of documentation is good enough is tricky- if your document is valid, you want them to approve it. If someone is presenting bogus documents in order to get a false ID, you want them to deny it.  

 

 

[regentrude]

As an immigrant who spent a great deal of time, effort and money to receive permission to legally be in this country it boggles my mind how cavalier some people are about making sure their children have the papers to prove that they have the incredible privilege of being American citizens. No other single piece of paper bestows as many advantages as a birth certificate documenting birth on American soil.

 

[G5052]

And there was another post saying that whenever the grandparents gave the children money she would wait until the grandparents left, and then take the money away and put it in the family account.

 

Her posts about privacy were quite eye-opening as well — she believes that teens do not deserve privacy and said that all her kids know that she has the right to go through their drawers, read their mail/email/texts/etc. at any time. And when they leave the house they have to tell her exactly where they will be at all times and when they will be home. This goes for the adult children as well (and the girls are not allowed to date, not even the 24 year old).

 

They are control freaks, no doubt about it.  Even with all of the spiritual language, they are involved way deeper with their children than they should be. She uses this verse several times on her blog (here's one: http://thepenningtonpoint.com/blog/faith-points/)...

 

And when all else fails I can remind my adult kids of what it says in Deuteronomy 21:18-21 â€œIf a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them,  then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones.†

 

We know a family who leans this way (although not this far), and DH is predicting a problem at some point with the grown children. Even into their late 20's and beyond, there is such tight control. I actually warned my DD about the youngest son when he showed interest in her. She doesn't think much of him and is focused on her education anyway, but I've watched enough to discuss what being interested in someone from that kind of family means.

[Dmmetler]

My kids needed a birth certificate for team sports (dance, soccer), presumably to show they were of the appropriate age for the team, in case anyone challenged that. Dance competitions often have, in their rules, a requirement that dancers have their bc available in case of a challenge; I assume other sports may be similar.

 

 

I have had to submit a copy of DD's birth certificate for academic competitions and cheer competitions. We probably need it at least once a year.

[Corraleno]

Here's the mom's actual post about hitting the 15 month old for "disobedience," which someone pulled up:
 

One little swat and he screamed. "No screaming" I'd say (in a very gentle way....I always spoke gently and calmly) and give him another little swat. When he'd stop I'd tell him again to say "Hi Mommy." Nope. Swat. Cry. Swat. This went on for about 30 minutes. I'd cradle him and rock him and he would be soothed, then I'd tell him again, "Say 'Hi Mommy.' " over and over.

Finally, when I was trying to decide if he would get dinner or not (I was actually thinking I would give him something else besides the pizza that everyone else was having because he is too young to go without a meal), he leaned his head on my shoulder and said, "Hi Mommy." and it was over.

 

:sad:

[Corraleno]

Another gem:

 

 

 

Occasionally it will happen that you discipline for lying when they were telling the truth. I tell my kids that when that happens, they should remember that there were times they lied and didn’t get caught. This is a good opportunity for them to reflect on the real consequences of lying which is that after a few lies, people won’t believe you even if you’re being honest. I assure them that they can work toward being believed again by telling the truth and earning our trust.

 

So if you make a mistake and punish your child for something they didn't do, never apologize or admit you were wrong! Tell them they deserved it anyway, because they probably got away with something in the past!

 

 

[regentrude]

Here's the mom's actual post about hitting the 15 month old for "disobedience," which someone pulled up:

 

 

:sad:

 

I have no words. This is crazy.

[zoobie]

Here's the mom's actual post about hitting the 15 month old for "disobedience," which someone pulled up:

 

 

:sad:

That's sickening. :(

[Joanne]

Here's the mom's actual post about hitting the 15 month old for "disobedience," which someone pulled up:

 

 

:sad:

 

 

That belongs in a special category of abuse.

[*Lulu*]

My heart hurts for those children.

 

For anyone who has questioned the vehemence of the criticism of Bob Jones, ATI, Gothard, the Pearls, and the myriad of other über-conservative sects of Christianity, THIS is the result of these twisted theologies being applied. There are victims. Just all too frequently they are unseen and unheard.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

THAT is Pearl or Gothard 101. Not even a little bit rare among families like this.

 

(For those who don't know, Pearl and Gothard are not the same and Pearl has spoken out against Gothard, but the net result for the kids under each paradigm is very similar. The "training" of babies is one area in which they are in agreement.)

[Guest]

I'm curious where all the defenders of these a-holes are now???

[LucyStoner]

I'm curious where all the defenders of these a-holes are now???

Oh, don't worry, they'll be back.

 

No one owes their abuser respect.

[Soror]

Sadistic. Really? Hitting your baby so they will tell you hi? And some think these type of parents are heroes. Yes, everything would be sunshine and roses with no crimes if we just hit our babies, that solves everything.

[Farrar]

She's also one of the owners on the Hip Homeschool Moms blog, which is a pretty big homeschool blog. I've always felt like that one was a little sketchy. Definitely feeling like it's not so hip now.

 

It's just shocking that she wrote this stuff with such pride at one point. Maybe the fact that she's pulling it all down and re-editing it means she's realizing how out of step she is. For the sake of those kids still at home, I sure hope so.

[*Lulu*]

Oh don't worry, they'll be back.

With a scripture backed, Christianese based, gold plated bullshit reason why this family was not a real member of the pack and a gold medal in mental gymnastics worthy explanation of how right the TRUE teachings of their group are.

[LucyStoner]

With a scripture backed, Christianese based, gold plated bullshit reason why this family was not a real member of the pack and a gold medal in mental gymnastics worthy explanation of how right the TRUE teachings of their group are.

Or, you know, the wayback machine is lying and making them look bad when really they are fanfreakingtabulous parents.

[Farrar]

If anyone comes back it will be to say that we don't know the "real" facts. Two sides to every story. Etc. etc. Except these are the mom's own words.

[*Lulu*]

Or, you know, the wayback machine is lying and making them look bad when really they are fanfreakingtabulous parents.

The Internet IS of the devil- here is the proof!

[Guest]

She's also one of the owners on the Hip Homeschool Moms blog, which is a pretty big homeschool blog. I've always felt like that one was a little sketchy. Definitely feeling like it's not so hip now.

 

It's just shocking that she wrote this stuff with such pride at one point. Maybe the fact that she's pulling it all down and re-editing it means she's realizing how out of step she is. For the sake of those kids still at home, I sure hope so.

Ha! I'm sure she is pulling it down because the godless people are picking apart her beautiful, Christian parenting style.

[*Lulu*]

Ha! I'm sure she is pulling it down because the godless people are picking apart her beautiful, Christian parenting style.

But since she is being "persecuted" she will surely take that as proof that her way is godly.

[Joanne]

Ha! I'm sure she is pulling it down because the godless people are picking apart her beautiful, Christian parenting style.

 

We never did understand the benefits to "godly submission" and submission to authority.

 

I'd post more but I have to go permissvely parent my heathen kids now.

[LucyStoner]

Sadistic. Really? Hitting your baby so they will tell you hi? And some think these type of parents are heroes. Yes, everything would be sunshine and roses with no crimes if we just hit our babies, that solves everything.

My older son barely talked at all at that age. He understood everything, didn't talk until he was much older.

 

I see how easily a child with autism would be abused in such a home (inflexible child meets inflexible adult who thinks the child owes them something and not the other way around + belief that it is ok to hit kids repeatedly to gain compliance = perfect storm for abuse) and it breaks my heart. I am so glad my son was born with parents who don't buy this stinking pile of parenting advice. While obviously I feel for all kids with abusive parents, having a son with autism makes me very sensitive to how vulnerable and in danger a child with autism would be with such parents.

[4ofus]

I keep seeing a Free Jinger thread mentioned. What is that? Is it a thread on WTM?

 

[LucyStoner]

I keep seeing a Free Jinger thread mentioned. What is that? Is it a thread on WTM?

It's an entire message board devoted to the Duggars and commentary thereof.

 

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=87

 

Not my cuppa but these people know their patriarchal religion watching pretty darn well.

[Joanne]

It's an entire message board devoted to the Duggars and commentary thereof.

 

To be fair, it is a forum devoted to reality tv, cultish abuse, religiosity symptoms.

 

And the Duggars are a large part of the content because they "match" a great deal of the interest content.

 

Free Jinger was named because Jinger was identified from the Duggar clan as the most likely to believe their life is BS.

[Wheres Toto]

My older son barely talked at all at that age. He understood everything, didn't talk until he was much older.

 

I see how easily a child with autism would be abused in such a home (inflexible child meets inflexible adult who thinks the child owes them something and not the other way around + belief that it is ok to hit kids repeatedly to gain compliance = perfect storm for abuse) and it breaks my heart. I am so glad my son was born with parents who don't buy this stinking pile of parenting advice. While obviously I feel for all kids with abusive parents, having a son with autism makes me very sensitive to how vulnerable and in danger a child with autism would be with such parents.

 

I've had these thoughts with my son as well.  He's not diagnosed, just has Asperger-ish traits and sensory issues.  But I think about how he would do with parents who were more rigid about eat whatever's on your plate, only specific attire is acceptable, or baby training, etc.  It comes up because that's basically my MIL's way of doing things and I'm always thankful that dh was more laid back. 

[PrairieSong]

Here's the mom's actual post about hitting the 15 month old for "disobedience," which someone pulled up:

 

 

:sad:

Abhorrent. I just...hurt reading that.

[gardenmom5]

ΧάÏων, on 14 Feb 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:ΧάÏων, on 14 Feb 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

I find the young women to be incredibly strong. To have grown up in that house and to be able to walk away and fight them for what she needs to be independent and resist the manipulation. I am impressed. Many people who are much older and have more life experience are unable to break away from abusers. I think this young woman will go far in life.

 

yeah - multiquote definitely has a problem.  glare.

 

she will also set an example to her other siblings that one day, when they recognize what the_ is going on, they too *can* break* away.

[LucyStoner]

I've had these thoughts with my son as well. He's not diagnosed, just has Asperger-ish traits and sensory issues. But I think about how he would do with parents who were more rigid about eat whatever's on your plate, only specific attire is acceptable, or baby training, etc. It comes up because that's basically my MIL's way of doing things and I'm always thankful that dh was more laid back.

I am pretty certain that what's "wrong" with my father is undiagnosed ASD paired with having been subjected to authoritarian/physically violent parenting. He's 72 this year. My grandfather, dead 15+ years now meant well. But you can't hit the autism out of someone. He had no way of knowing why his oldest son was so different.

 

I am glad your husband and you are taking a different road with your son.