Should I bring ds home.....

[HSmomof2]

We homeschooled through fifth grade. Ds has never been an easy student to teach. He's very easily frustrated, especially about math, and we were butting heads almost daily with usually one of us in tears. We were also dealing with some financial issues and I accepted a part-time job. So, this year, ds(12) and dd(9) are going to public school. It's not horrible, but not great either.....especially for ds. He has no friends at school, no one to eat lunch with---group of kids he sat down with all got up and moved to a different table when he sat down. He's on the smaller side for his age and has been pushed, had things taken from him in the halls between classes. He basically hates school, except for band. I'm worried about him---he seems so lonely. His grades are ok so far, but he struggles with dysgraphia and is very self-conscious about his spelling and handwriting. School will not do any testing but is allowing him to type everything except math.

Part of me would like to bring him back home. I could work out my schedule to make it work with homeschooling. I am hesitant to bring him home with all the problems we had the last couple years. I haven't talked with dh yet. He's unhappy with the school, both academically and socially. But, I don't think he'll go along with homeschooling again. Dd is doing ok in school. She is a perfectionist and is very stressed with all the testing they have to do. She's had headaches and insomnia since October. I'm just not sure what to do. Really feel stuck between rock and hard place.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Ausmumof3]

I probably would as I would worry about long term consequences of the experience. He may be more cooperative about the work now he knows the alternative.

 

Would it be worth outsourcing to maths online or something to avoid the main source of conflict?

 

If you decide to keep him in school do try to do everything you can to get them to work through the bullying issues.

[bettyandbob]

Is ds involved in anything outside of school where he feels competent or where he is connected socially. At this age he needs this.

[BlsdMama]

We homeschooled through fifth grade. Ds has never been an easy student to teach. He's very easily frustrated, especially about math, and we were butting heads almost daily with usually one of us in tears. We were also dealing with some financial issues and I accepted a part-time job. So, this year, ds(12) and dd(9) are going to public school. It's not horrible, but not great either.....especially for ds. He has no friends at school, no one to eat lunch with---group of kids he sat down with all got up and moved to a different table when he sat down. He's on the smaller side for his age and has been pushed, had things taken from him in the halls between classes. He basically hates school, except for band. I'm worried about him---he seems so lonely. His grades are ok so far, but he struggles with dysgraphia and is very self-conscious about his spelling and handwriting. School will not do any testing but is allowing him to type everything except math.

Part of me would like to bring him back home. I could work out my schedule to make it work with homeschooling. I am hesitant to bring him home with all the problems we had the last couple years. I haven't talked with dh yet. He's unhappy with the school, both academically and socially. But, I don't think he'll go along with homeschooling again. Dd is doing ok in school. She is a perfectionist and is very stressed with all the testing they have to do. She's had headaches and insomnia since October. I'm just not sure what to do. Really feel stuck between rock and hard place.

 

 

I assume, with dyslexia and spelling problems, that he is dyslexic and if math is hardest then probably also dyscalculic considering it's often seen together.

 

 Yes, yes, I'd bring him home.  What an awful, heartbreaking, life changing, awful experience for him. :(

[LLMom]

So, he has only been in school a half a year? I don't think that is enough time for most people to know whether it will be successful.  That is a hard age whether you are in school or homeschool.  They have a hard time making friends.  I put in a 10 and 12 year old after xmas last year.  They are just now comfortable with school and have made some good friends. Being in extracurriculars like sports and band helps.  That is where they made their friends.  If you were butting heads with him before, I would hesitate to homeschool again until you first give school a good long go.  I would want to preserve the parent/child relationship and for some people that means having the child in school because the dynamics don't work as parent=teacher.  Middle school kids are hard! But I would have a talk with the school about testing. 

[bettyandbob]

I think I would try to finish the school year. I would be putting together a clear workable plan to bring him home next year, so that when I sat down to discuss it with dh, everything would be clear. Then, dh and I could discuss the option of coming home with ds. Based on past homeschool behavior, I might include a contract for ds regarding his compliance with academics as a homeschooler. 

 

Included in the plan would be social opportunities as well as any activity where ds would feel successful. I don't know your ds's interests, but things like 4H, scouts, community theatre, rocket club, chess, TKD, drum lessons etc all could all provide either social or competence opportunities, some provide both. If you or ds don't know what fits this category for him, then part of the homeschool plan would be for him to agree to sincerely try two activities for a set period (semester/year) and then rotate to something new if the first couple activities didn't take. 

 

I homeschooled and worked part time. It's a real juggle, but it can be done. If you dd is doing OK in school I'd leave her there. At 12 your ds can probably be home a few hours at a time and be expected to get some work done (this can be part of the contract). I think 9 is a little young for that. My kids were about those ages when I was working part time. Because my dd was younger and needed more adult contact, I ended up doing is scheduling dd to go to a French tutor and then grandmas (french tutor was on the same street as my mom) on one of my work days. Then, on the other workday dd went to a friends who homeschooled and took assignments to do. In exchange, once a week I did science and fieldtrips with dd and her friend. That meant I was crunch down to 2 days a week I was really available for academics I had to teach, not just supervise. We got through it. It worked, but it was hard. If you are able to just have ds home you will be able to focus on his academic and social needs without worrying if you are doing enough for dd. 

 

Watch the situation and your ds carefully. Experiences at this age can have lifechanging consequences. Social isolation can lead to being bullied and definite lowered self esteem. It doesn't mean the person will become a criminal or mentally ill, but lowered self esteem seriously effects academic performance which in turn effects career outlook. 

[Guest submarines]

Your DS is being psychologically damaged, and your DD, who'd doing "okay" is manifesting her stress through physiological issues. What an unhealthy, soul crushing environment, and I would not subject my children to this, not even for the rest of the year.

[Anne in CA]

I would INSIST that the school do testing. They do not have the right to withhold it, legally. I have a friend who spent more money on a lawyer than actual testing would have cost because her school district hates to diagnose dyslexia. Her son does have dyslexia and it caused them more work. I might consider that if you leave him in school he will need something extra to help him make friends. It is not too late for him to join scouts or a youth orchestra, but he needs something to help him belong to make friends. Some people do not make friends without shared experiences, they will not make friends just by being around other kids, and as your ds experienced, jr high kids are evil in the ways they exclude other kids. I once talked to a career junior high teacher who told me that junior high is the worst time to put a home schooled kid back to school. He said it always goes badly.

[La Condessa]

He has no friends at school, no one to eat lunch with---group of kids he sat down with all got up and moved to a different table when he sat down. He's on the smaller side for his age and has been pushed, had things taken from him in the halls between classes.

 

Your son is being shunned and bullied. If an entire group (kids who he hoped to be accepted by, so presumably not those involved in the pushing and taking) are actively shunning him, then his bullying and social isolation have been accepted by the group and absolutely will get worse without intervention. Whether or not you go back to homeschooling, do whatever you have to to stop this now. Do not wait. Do not rely on the teachers to stop it. Speak to his teachers, but know that few teachers deal with bullying effectively and be prepared to do more. Go to the teachers, go to the administration, take any opportunity to show up at the school yourself, switch schools, pull him out, move. It doesn't matter how, just do what it takes to nip it in the bud.

 

This is more than not having friends. It is more important than his grades. Adults have the option to leave bad situations, but he is stuck there unless you get him out.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I would pull them both out immediately.  This type of situation is detrimental to their current and long term mental health.  Children don't understand that eventually it will get better, all they can see is the now.  A boy I went to school with tried to kill himself in 7th grade because he was shunned.  Not even actively bullied, just ignored.  I was also ignored during 5th-6th grade and actively bullied in 7th.  All I thought of everyday was how much I just wanted to run away or die.  Either was fine.  My parents had no idea.  So I'd do what I had too, to convince your husband and I'd pull him/them out now. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'd see this as an emergency and remove him the first day back from Christmas break. DD is a little less critical because no one is attacking her but I think she needs removed from that environment, too.

 

I'm sorry this is happening. I'm sorry that homeschooling is the best and only option for so many of our children these days, whether it goes very well or not, whether we can afford it or not...But something has to dramatically change for this young man, whether at school or at home. and the school is letting you know that he's SOL. At least at home you have all the power to make the changes once you figure out what he needs.

 

 

 

[JFSinIL]

I would bring him back home....and invest in a math program he can do on the computer, like Chalkdust, so you are taken out of the picture (for the most part) with that subject.  "Teacher in a can" can be viewed repeatedly until the child understands the demonstrated concept, without the teacher getting frustrated or annoyed. The visuals used are very helpful, too, in the "canned" math programs, and can help a kid see the concept.  Videotext is great, too, when time for algebra. 

[Ottakee]

It sounds like he might be better off at home-----or at least talk to the school social worker on friends, find some other outside activities that mesh well with his interests, etc.

 

I would request IN WRITING that they formally test him---whether or not you continue with school, it sounds like testing would be a good idea to find out what is really going on and how best to help him.

[Corraleno]

He has no friends at school, no one to eat lunch with---group of kids he sat down with all got up and moved to a different table when he sat down. He's on the smaller side for his age and has been pushed, had things taken from him in the halls between classes. He basically hates school, except for band.

Dd is doing ok in school. She is a perfectionist and is very stressed with all the testing they have to do. She's had headaches and insomnia since October. I'm just not sure what to do. Really feel stuck between rock and hard place.

 

That's horrible! I would pull the kids immediately, without question. You can always outsource math — whatever conflict there may be at home can't be remotely as bad as what the kids are going through in school. Why do we, as a culture, accept this kind of thing as "normal"??? My heart hurts for your kids, and all the other kids, who have to put up with bullying, shunning, and stress so bad it hurts them physically.  :crying:

[NotSoObvious]

If you leave him in, you need to get an advocate who knows the law to go with you to meet with the principal. Several years ago my understanding was that once you requested testing, the school had 60 days to complete it. It wasn't at their discretion if you formally requested it. 

 

[HeWillSoar]

Testing may help to give you a better picture of your son's needs but be aware the process can take a long time.  They do have a certain amount of time after you formally request testing, but in that first 60 days, that is just an observation period to determine if they feel testing is warranted (at least in my experience).  We went through this twice, and each time they took that 60 days to observe, and then they let us know in our scheduled meeting that they determined testing was not warranted.  The second time they did that, we had to put up a fight to get them to agree to test.  It was a little ugly.  Then the actual testing took a couple more months.  So if you decide to do this, just be aware that it will be the end of the school year before you get any results.  Another option is doing your own testing, but there is a cost involved. 

 

It sounds like the bigger issue though is how your son is being treated by the other kids.  How does he feel about staying there?  I'm really sorry you are all going through this.

[Garga]

I'd take him out. All the kids got up and left him there alone? I've had that happen to me as a kid. I was telling my kids about my childhood the other day. I was talking about the pain of knowing that the people around you can't stand you, possibly hate you. I said, "Well, have you ever been near someone who you thought might not like you?" assuming that surely by now they've bumped into someone who they felt didn't like them. They just stared at me and said, "No. We've never had someone not like us."

 

Wow. That was amazing to me. I used to sit in classrooms where 30 of the 32 kids couldn't stand me. I never spoke a word in school. My education certainly suffered for it. If you're too scared to ask questions in school, you don't learn as much. You can't believe the pain inside when you sit in a roomful of people who actively dislike you. I mean, stop and imagine it. Imagine walking into work and having everyone roll their eyes at the fact that you had the audacity to walk into the room, and then they all turn their backs on you and a few mutter about you to each other. Imagine someone walking past you and purposely bumping into you. Imagine them grabbing your pen out of your hand and when you say, "Hey, give that back!" they say, "Oh this is mine," and stare you down. Can you imagine that? Your son is living that hell. How horrible for him. If you haven't lived it, then you don't know the intense pain of it.

 

If he had a group of friends and just a few bullies were treating him the same way they treat all the kids (like Scut Farcus in A Christmas Story--he bullied ALL the kids), it would be different. But your son isn't part of a group of kids who mostly are friends. He's the only kid on the outside. The others are shunning him and it causes deep, deep pain. I finally had therapy in my 30s and am over it. I can speak of my experiences without pain, but the pain didn't go away without therapy. My misery lasted from 4th-12th grade. Your son has had just a few months, so he may be ok and recover quickly if he's out of that toxic environment. (I never told my parents how terrible it was for me. We didn't know of homeschooling. What would anyone have done to help? Not a thing.)

 

And your daughter--headaches and insomnia at 9 years old? I dunno. Maybe by the end of the year she'll have adjusted. She might be able to stay. If she's not stopped the headaches and insomnia by the end of the year, I'd pull her out, too.

 

Find online work for your son. Ask him if he thinks he can learn without butting heads. Maybe now that he knows the reality of the other option (school and bullying and misery) he'll try to reign in his head-butting ways.

[73349]

I think some counseling might be a good idea either way, and maybe even to help you make the decision.

 

The first step, of course, would be talking with your DH and seeing if he thinks you could make it work, now that your DS has experienced the alternative to homeschooling.

 

:grouphug:

[sbgrace]

:grouphug:

 

I would pull him out ASAP. It wouldn't matter to me what hubby thought. This sort of thing can have life long damage. Then seek evaluation to see what is going on with math and  what you can outsource in that area (tutoring, computer, etc.)

 

I'd tend to want to pull your daughter, too, but your son is critical imo.

 

 

[La Condessa]

My misery lasted from 4th-12th grade.

Hugs, Garga. 1st to 5th for me. Isn't it wonderful that your children have never experienced that?

[La Condessa]

I don't believe kids are all just so horrible tht they are isolating a kid on purpose.

 

This kid was miserable and making mom miserable at home too.

 

Bringing him home may not be in his best interest. He sounds like he needs some social skills intervention.

This is not at all uncommon. Kid gets picked on, some others go along with it, and then other kids who might otherwise have been friendly are afraid of being targeted, too, if they socialize with the shunned one. It is so much easier to be one face in the group turning away than for a kid to speak up and go against what the others are doing, knowing it will make them a target, too. It happens all_the_time, often to kids who are already a little different or particularly introverted, but through no fault of the bullied. The other kids can't all be getting up and walking away by accident.

[idnib]

I would pull him and his sister out. I think he's too young to understand the long-term consequences and he's the one stuck between rock and a hard place. Get a therapist to help your family move forward but he needs you to be the adult and make a good decision.

 

Maybe show this thread to your DH?

[foxbridgeacademy]

I don't believe kids are all just so horrible tht they are isolating a kid on purpose.

 

This kid was miserable and making mom miserable at home too.

 

Bringing him home may not be in his best interest. He sounds like he needs some social skills intervention.

What do you mean, please, that "you don't believe it"?   Are you suggesting that he is lying or that it could never happen?  Or are you saying that IF it is happening it is his own fault obviously because he caused trouble at home? 

 

This kid is a victim, many of us had it happen to us for NO GOOD reason (I wore skirts that's why I was picked on).  So please don't say you don't believe it.  I do agree that he could use some intervention in how to deal with whatever issues he might have (99% of us need help sometimes) but a P.S. is not where he needs to learn those "social skills" (I hate that term).

 

ETA: I would pull him over my Dh's objection my kids always come first but my DH knows that and if I explained it he would be on board.  you need to sit your husband down and explain that this is what needs to be done and why.

[Ravin]

Are there any other options where you live? Charter schools, including virtual charters?

 

My DD is in an arts-focused charter school this year, and doing okay--though she struggles with math still and started some head-butting and complaining about certain teachers once she'd settled in and gotten used to them. And she still head butts with me over homework FREQUENTLY. Socially she is holding her own. There is a bullying situation with one kid, but she mostly seems to get on well--she's much more outgoing and sociable than I was at that age! It helps that the overall atmosphere of the school is one that's about encouraging individuality and freedom of expression. It's also quite small, only about 30 students per grade level for the middle school.

 

If the bullying situation isn't addressed to my satisfaction, however, we may consider other options as well. She's at least learned (as I'm sure your son has) that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the schoolyard fence!

 

In short, I commisserate. If my DD was as miserable as your son seems to be, I'd be having serious discussions with DH about pulling her out. He's old enough that you can work home school around your part time job, if he's capable of being at all independent.

 

[HSmomof2]

nm

Edited September 30, 2017 by Bethany Grace

[ktgrok]

Your DS is being psychologically damaged, and your DD, who'd doing "okay" is manifesting her stress through physiological issues. What an unhealthy, soul crushing environment, and I would not subject my children to this, not even for the rest of the year.

 

This! People are pushing your child, stealing his stuff, and walking away from him in a horridly shaming and embarrassing way in the lunch room. How on EARTH could that be worse than butting heads over math with mom? There is no way possible. He's being abused. Bring him home. Protect him. Show him you will be there for him. This is soul crushing. 

 

As someone who once sat at a lunch room table and had someone say, "if you like Katie, raise your hand!" and watched only one hand go up, I can't even imagine how much worse his experience is. I'm 38 yrs old and that lunch room incident happened when I was 12. It still upsets me. Bring him home before something worse happens. 

[HSmomof2]

Are there any other options where you live? Charter schools, including virtual charters?

 

My DD is in an arts-focused charter school this year, and doing okay--though she struggles with math still and started some head-butting and complaining about certain teachers once she'd settled in and gotten used to them. And she still head butts with me over homework FREQUENTLY. Socially she is holding her own. There is a bullying situation with one kid, but she mostly seems to get on well--she's much more outgoing and sociable than I was at that age! It helps that the overall atmosphere of the school is one that's about encouraging individuality and freedom of expression. It's also quite small, only about 30 students per grade level for the middle school.

 

If the bullying situation isn't addressed to my satisfaction, however, we may consider other options as well. She's at least learned (as I'm sure your son has) that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the schoolyard fence!

 

In short, I commisserate. If my DD was as miserable as your son seems to be, I'd be having serious discussions with DH about pulling her out. He's old enough that you can work home school around your part time job, if he's capable of being at all independent.

I wish we had charter school here. And an arts one would be great for ds. The music he's involved with at school are the only things that keep him going. He's in band, choir, and an after school guitar club. The kids in these classes/activities aren't ones that are mean to him, but he hasn't made friends either. And ds isn't quiet or shy at all. He's very outgoing and friendly.

[J-rap]

I'm so sorry! I would probably bring him home ASAP, and probably your daughter too. I would have him tested to learn what his specific learning challenges are and how they should be addressed. I would outsource math, or use something like Teaching Textbooks which can be done nearly completely independently, UNLESS you learn that he has very specific needs regarding math. Maybe you could even find him a math tutor? I would also get him involved in some extra curricular type activities where he can gain confidence and hopefully meet some new and kinder kids.

[Garga]

I don't believe kids are all just so horrible tht they are isolating a kid on purpose.

 

This kid was miserable and making mom miserable at home too.

 

Bringing him home may not be in his best interest. He sounds like he needs some social skills intervention.

Well, as a child, I most certainly did believe they were all "just so horrible." I didn't have children until I was 30 and the *only* reason I waited that long was because it took me that long to stop believing children were absolute monsters. I didn't want children because I couldn't bear the thought of living with monsters. As a child I hated children and once I grew up I still hated children. I wanted nothing to do with them. In my experience, they were cruel and brutal and utterly without mercy. And they *were* that way--to me. Now, as the years have passed, I can see that a lot of them were either oblivious to the pain they were causing or they were pressured to act that way out of fear of becoming the outcast as I was. No one wanted to be in my shoes, so they stayed far, far away.

 

In fact, I had true hatred for all people in my 20s. 80% of the people I had come into contact with as a child treated me cruelly, and in response, I grew to hate everyone as I grew up. I was/am a Christian and I used to seriously worry about how I couldn't love people as we're told to do in the bible. I was as far from love as could be and knew it was NOT how a Christian should be, but I didn't know how to change it.

 

I am a completely different person now at 42. Completely different. You would never guess these things if you met me. I'm outgoing and really enjoy people quite a bit! If we're at an event, I'm the one walking up to strangers and being kind to them and introducing myself to them.

 

If I were to meet myself at age 28 and younger, I wouldn't be able to stand the person I used to be. I was filled with bitterness and hatred and cynicism. I was the person in the grocery store rolling my eyes and sneering at the kids throwing tantrums or being loud. I hated kids.

 

You would never know it now. I'm the one who pets my kids and gives them constant hugs and tells them many times a day how much I love them. The day my oldest was born, all that hatred for children melted away. All of a sudden, in an instant, I could see the innocence and goodness that children have. I don't think they're all little angels, but I can see that they're not the devil's minions either. :) They're just people.

 

So...I do believe that all the kids were behaving horribly. Many of them probably felt pressured into it and they many of them are not horrid people, but they did *behave* horribly.

 

And good luck with teaching social skills at a place where he's already targetted. I absolutely have no idea how a kid who has become the target ever really gets out from under that.

 

So, yes, OP. Being the misfit has lifelong consequences and is soul crushing. Those aren't just words. It's a fact. But I lived that way for 9 years. Your son has only had this for a couple of months. There is plenty of hope left.

 

And don't worry about me now. After the therapy, this all causes me NO pain in the slightest. Sometimes I poke at the memories and see if it makes me sad or upset...nope. It happened, it sucked, but the pain is gone. The trained therapist at my church taught me how to forgive, with lots of prayer and God's help.

[NotSoObvious]

Testing may help to give you a better picture of your son's needs but be aware the process can take a long time.  They do have a certain amount of time after you formally request testing, but in that first 60 days, that is just an observation period to determine if they feel testing is warranted (at least in my experience).  We went through this twice, and each time they took that 60 days to observe, and then they let us know in our scheduled meeting that they determined testing was not warranted.  The second time they did that, we had to put up a fight to get them to agree to test.  It was a little ugly.  Then the actual testing took a couple more months.  So if you decide to do this, just be aware that it will be the end of the school year before you get any results.  Another option is doing your own testing, but there is a cost involved. 

 

It sounds like the bigger issue though is how your son is being treated by the other kids.  How does he feel about staying there?  I'm really sorry you are all going through this.

 

 

So, this actually made me curious enough to go looking. I couldn't remember from when I was teaching. 

 

http://ldaamerica.org/advocacy/lda-position-papers/right-to-an-evaluation-of-a-child-for-special-education-services/

 

They do have to complete an evaluation, period, and RTI isn't enough on its own. It's part of the Child Find law. When I was taking my special ed law class, there were several cases where the school refused to test (illegal) and later the child was diagnosed with a learning disability. The parents sued the school and the district was required to pay for all the special schooling, tutoring, and testing that the parents paid for over the years. 

 

So, OP, if they won't complete a comprehensive evaluation, you can let them know that you'll be making them pay for outside testing. :)

[Garga]

Oh wait! I remembered one more thing. The only reason I didn't go to college is because I was treated so miserably in school that I couldn't bear the thought of more of the same in college.

 

So...I hated kids until I was 28, I hated all people until I was 30, I cried from time to time from the memories until I was 36, and I didn't get a college education all completely because of being shunned and teased as a child in school. Yikes. It really does have lifelong consequences. I had totally forgotten that that's why I never went to college until now. Blah.

[Alicia64]

 He has no friends at school, no one to eat lunch with---group of kids he sat down with all got up and moved to a different table when he sat down. He's on the smaller side for his age and has been pushed, had things taken from him in the halls between classes. He basically hates school, except for band.

 

Yes, I would absolutely bring him home. This is a enormous deal for kids: to be completely excluded and in such a public way.

 

And the stress your daughter is under is a big deal too.

 

Alley

 

[Incognito]

Thanks everyone......a lot to consider. I did talk with dh about it this afternoon. He's not totally opposed to bringing him home and wants to discuss it more after Christmas and family has gone home. I should clarify about ds. His behavior at home wasn't 'bad'----more of the meltdown/crying variety after being frustrated. Ds is a very (overly) sensitive and kind-hearted child----which I think really makes him a target in middle school. As for testing---I'm almost certain he doesn't have dyslexia. His reading and comprehension is way above his age. He has problems with handwriting and spelling. When I talked to the school earlier, they basically said his writing wasn't bad enough for testing. Math, I'm not sure what his issues are. He has really struggled to memorize his math facts. He still isn't great with them. It's odd that he can memorize long passages from books, remember every detail from a read aloud, but if it's numbers, he can't remember.

 

FWIW, what you describe does not mean he doesn't have dyslexia.  How is his oral reading?  

 

I'm so sorry he's having such a crummy time.  I'd get him out of that environment if at all possible - the answer might be home, it might be a different school, but bring him somewhere he can feel successful and be in a small group/well monitored environment for a while.

[Ausmumof3]

Except many kids who experience bullying at school turn in to functional healthy adults... It can just be the environment that is an issue not the child. Just as some work places have a bad culture some schools do. At work you can leave, at school you are stuck.

[Laurie4b]

The school cannot refuse to do testing, but you have to ask in a way that conforms with the law, thus triggering the process. To do that, simply write a letter to the director of exceptional children and copy it to the principal. In the letter, state that you believe that your son has learning disabilities in written language and that you are requesting an evaluation.

 

Here's a link: https://www.disabilityrightstx.org/files/Education_Resource_New_Timeline_for_Special_Ed_Process_Aug_2013.pdf

[Luanne]

I would remove both children right away if it were me.  I don't think either child should have to deal with what is happening to them.  Clearly your dd is also having issues with something at school or she wouldn't be exhibiting the signs you mentioned. 

 

I have a hard time believing that someone doesn't believe this stuff actually happens in public school.  It happens all the time, in every area of the country, at every age.  My daughter has a friend who lives in Georgia.  She homeschools her daughter because she was being bullied in Kindergarten and the school wouldn't do anything about it.  I guess some people have never actually set foot in a public school lately. 

[idnib]

You know kids with major social issues need real help not just a retreat back home.

 

The environment may or may not be toxic.

 

I see a lot of this here on the board where people say their child is shunned and other people say the child should be home. I don't agree this is always the best answer.

 

Obviously only the OP knows what is really going on. But school kids are not all horrible beasts who feed on the aouls of homeschooled kids. If a child has major social issues he may need RL help.

 

.

[Garga]

You know kids with major social issues need real help not just a retreat back home.

 

The environment may or may not be toxic.

 

I see a lot of this here on the board where people say their child is shunned and other people say the child should be home. I don't agree this is always the best answer.

 

Obviously only the OP knows what is really going on. But school kids are not all horrible beasts who feed on the aouls of homeschooled kids. If a child has major social issues he may need RL help.

You're not wrong. I've posted (entirely too much) information about what it was like for me in school. Part of why the kids initially started treating me badly was because I was very shy. Perhaps if I'd have learned better social skills by the 4th grade I could have had a better time of it.

 

But after living through being ostracized, I'm not sure a kid can learn social skills in an environment where he's already labeled. Perhaps it can be done, but I'm not sure how. Once the kids think you're the nerd of the group, they are very unwilling to let you join in with them lest they be labeled nerd as well. How do you get kids past that? I don't know. I really don't. Maybe there's a way, but I would think it would involve intense intervention by the adults (the teachers.)

 

And sometimes it's really not the ostracized kids' fault in any way and they have great social skills, but something caused the alpha kid in the group to target the new kid and everyone else followed suit. It's such a complex issue. The op may need to help her son with social skills, or maybe not.

 

I do know that for myself, since I was ostracized from all the other kids from 4th - 12th that I did not progress as much socially as I would have if I'd have been included with the other kids. I wasn't allowed the chance to interact with them so I couldn't learn how (since they refused to interact with me.) So, it took me until my 30's to be able to handle social situations. My teens and twenties were a bit of a waste for me socially as I was still so awkward. But by my 30's I was getting pretty good at social stuff and now (42) you'd never know I ever struggled.

[Luanne]

You know kids with major social issues need real help not just a retreat back home.

 

The environment may or may not be toxic.

 

I see a lot of this here on the board where people say their child is shunned and other people say the child should be home. I don't agree this is always the best answer.

 

Obviously only the OP knows what is really going on. But school kids are not all horrible beasts who feed on the aouls of homeschooled kids. If a child has major social issues he may need RL help.

 

It doesn't matter to bullies whether your child was homeschooled or has always been in public school, they are going to bully.  This goes on all the time.  I don't know where you live, but it makes me wonder how much you actually know about public school these days.

 

[Corraleno]

I'm almost certain he doesn't have dyslexia. His reading and comprehension is way above his age. He has problems with handwriting and spelling. When I talked to the school earlier, they basically said his writing wasn't bad enough for testing. Math, I'm not sure what his issues are. He has really struggled to memorize his math facts. He still isn't great with them. It's odd that he can memorize long passages from books, remember every detail from a read aloud, but if it's numbers, he can't remember.

 

This describes my son exactly (including the extreme sensitivity), and he is dyslexic. There are two types, dysphonetic and dyseidetic (sometimes also called "stealth dyslexia"), and DS is dyseidetic. His reading comprehension has always been waaay above his age level, because he's gifted, but he still struggles with handwriting, spelling, and math facts. Heck, he can recite extended passages of literature in Old Norse or Ancient Greek, by heart, after reading them just a few times, and yet he still has a really hard time remembering 7x7!

 

Google "Visual Spatial Learner" and "Whole to Part Learner." The reason they can't retain math facts is due to the lack of context — they don't "file" information the way most people do, so they struggle to retrieve random facts out of context. DS described it as feeling like all the answers (times tables) are written on scraps of paper scattered all over the floor in his brain, and when he needs to recall one it's like there's a little man frantically running around turning every piece of paper over, desperately hoping to find the right one. Can you imagine how frustrating that must be? :sad:  

 

I would definitely get testing, and I would especially look at working memory and processing speed issues. You may find a very wide gap between the scores in those areas and in other areas. Dyseidetic dyslexia qualifies for accommodations, as do issues with working memory and processing speed. I highly recommend reading the Eide's books, The Mislabeled Child and The Dyslexic Advantage.

 

And please bring your son home. The learning issues are not as hard to solve as you might think — and they need to be solved anyway, regardless of where he learns. What's happening at school can cause so much damage, and doubly so for a child who is highly sensitive and already has some learning differences. 

 

:grouphug:  to both of you

 

[Storygirl]

I was thinking of posting that your son could be dyslexic even if he reads well, and Corraleno beat me to it. Trouble with handwriting, spelling, and memorizing math facts? Very very common among dyslexics.  If he has excellent reading comprehension, he could easily be reading much in context (ie, guessing at words successfully instead of truly reading them). My daughter does this. She can read a paragraph perfectly, but if you take an individual word from the page and put it on a flashcard, she might not be able to read that word in isolation. She is so smart that she can tell what the word should be.

 

I suggest that you have him evaluated so that you know for sure what the root of his learning problems is. And I would not leave him in school if he is withering. Even if he does need help developing social skills that will help him to make friends, it will be hard to do that in a hostile environment. I'd seek some social skills help elsewhere.

[HSmomof2]

This describes my son exactly (including the extreme sensitivity), and he is dyslexic. There are two types, dysphonetic and dyseidetic (sometimes also called "stealth dyslexia"), and DS is dyseidetic. His reading comprehension has always been waaay above his age level, because he's gifted, but he still struggles with handwriting, spelling, and math facts. Heck, he can recite extended passages of literature in Old Norse or Ancient Greek, by heart, after reading them just a few times, and yet he still has a really hard time remembering 7x7!

 

Google "Visual Spatial Learner" and "Whole to Part Learner." The reason they can't retain math facts is due to the lack of context — they don't "file" information the way most people do, so they struggle to retrieve random facts out of context. DS described it as feeling like all the answers (times tables) are written on scraps of paper scattered all over the floor in his brain, and when he needs to recall one it's like there's a little man frantically running around turning every piece of paper over, desperately hoping to find the right one. Can you imagine how frustrating that must be? :sad:

 

I would definitely get testing, and I would especially look at working memory and processing speed issues. You may find a very wide gap between the scores in those areas and in other areas. Dyseidetic dyslexia qualifies for accommodations, as do issues with working memory and processing speed. I highly recommend reading the Eide's books, The Mislabeled Child and The Dyslexic Advantage.

 

And please bring your son home. The learning issues are not as hard to solve as you might think — and they need to be solved anyway, regardless of where he learns. What's happening at school can cause so much damage, and doubly so for a child who is highly sensitive and already has some learning differences.

 

:grouphug: to both of you

This describes ds exactly. Others have mentioned 'stealth dyslexia', and I will look into this. Although, not formally tested, I think ds is gifted as well, but is definitely dealing with some type of learning issue. His standardized test scores have always been in the 98-99th percentiles--at least in the language/reading areas. Last year, on his CAT5, he had 98-99th percentile in all areas (even math concepts), except spelling (54th) and math computation (52nd). The teacher that administered the test said it was strange to have such a large discrepancy in two areas. The math computation part was lower because he ran out of time to finish the test.

 

As far as the social situation, ds is not a social freak and doesn't have poor social skills. He is very friendly and outgoing, looks normal, wears normal clothes, and has not had problems making friends in the past. He had neighborhood friends (we recently moved, though), friends at co-op and church, etc. From what I can gather, his problem at school seemed to happen in early October when a girl asked him if he would be her boyfriend. She wanted him to go to the movies with her. Ds said he would like to be friends but that he was not planning on having a girlfriend until he is older. From what he described, he said this to her privately and nicely. She was very angry and told him he was an as$h0le and to f-off. Immediately after this incident, the meanness from other kids started and the cafeteria incidents happened. The lunch time every one getting up and leaving when ds sat down happened twice with two different groups. Apparently, this girl has a lot of friends. So, ds's social crimes seem to be not having a 'girlfriend' at age 12 and being new to the school.

 

ETA: who does this type of testing for dyslexia? With the exception of his math teacher, I'm not overly impressed with the school staff. A neuropsych maybe?

[Corraleno]

Oh I wasn't suggesting that your DS was a "social freak" — that's not what I meant at all. Gifted kids tend to be highly sensitive and easily frustrated (google "gifted + overexcitabilities," e.g. this article on the Davidson gifted website), and when a kid like that is subjected to bullying/shunning/abuse, especially during adolescence when their sense of self is really developing, it can turn an otherwise happy outgoing kid into a very depressed and isolated one. Add in the frustration of LDs, which in a PS setting can mean that they sometimes fall behind their peers despite a high IQ (and get very frustrated with themselves because they feel they should be able to do so much better), and you can end up with a child who is so frustrated and unhappy that he just shuts down. That's basically where my son was when I pulled him out at age 10.

 

ETA: We did the first round of testing with an Ed Psych, who pointed out the severe issues with working memory & processing speed, but who was not familiar with dyseidetic dyslexia, although she did say that she would give him a diagnosis of "specific reading disability." We did the 2nd round of testing (4 years later) with a neuro psych, which was waaaaayyy more expensive, but also a lot more comprehensive. She's the one who will be writing the letters for accommodations for the SAT, DE classes, etc.

[HSmomof2]

Oh I wasn't suggesting that your DS was a "social freak" — that's not what I meant at all. Gifted kids tend to be highly sensitive and easily frustrated (google "gifted + overexcitabilities," e.g. this article on the Davidson gifted website), and when a kid like that is subjected to bullying/shunning/abuse, especially during adolescence when their sense of self is really developing, it can turn an otherwise happy outgoing kid into a very depressed and isolated one. Add in the frustration of LDs, which in a PS setting can mean that they sometimes fall behind their peers despite a high IQ (and get very frustrated with themselves because they feel they should be able to do so much better), and you can end up with a child who is so frustrated and unhappy that he just shuts down. That's basically where my son was when I pulled him out at age 10.

 

ETA: We did the first round of testing with an Ed Psych, who pointed out the severe issues with working memory & processing speed, but who was not familiar with dyseidetic dyslexia, although she did say that she would give him a diagnosis of "specific reading disability." We did the 2nd round of testing (4 years later) with a neuro psych, which was waaaaayyy more expensive, but also a lot more comprehensive. She's the one who will be writing the letters for accommodations for the SAT, DE classes, etc.

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying anyone actually was calling him that....just that in this particular situation, I don't think it's a lack of or poor social skills causing the bullying/shunning.

So far, although he's expressed strong dislike of school and not wanting to go, I'm not seeing signs of him being depressed (yet). But I don't want it to get to that point.

 

ETA: thank you for the testing info. I kind of thought a neuropsych would be best....just need to figure out how to pay for it.

[Corraleno]

The special ed person who was responsible for arranging/interpreting testing for the PS system where we used to live was worse than useless. I was absolutely shocked at the things that came out of her mouth:
"Oh, these kids never learn to spell, just buy him one of those little electronic spell checkers."

"He can just use a calculator for math, and they have things like Consumer Math if he can't do algebra."

"If he struggles to write, just get him software like KidSpiration, and let him turn in "mind maps" instead of papers."

 

I told her that DS plans to get a PhD and I doubt any university will let him turn in his thesis as a "mind map" instead of an actual paper. I was told by other parents that not only do they do everything possible to discourage testing, if a parent really insists on it, they go out of their way to "not find any significant issues." 

 

After that meeting, I decided I'd rather pay for private testing than deal with the school because I seriously doubted the objectivity of any testing that would be done through them.

[HSmomof2]

That's unfortunate but not surprising. I'd rather pay someone and not waste time.

Reading about visual-spatial learner so far makes a lot of sense. Ds is left-handed which I'm reading is more common. He does well in word problems in math---but they have context.

[Corraleno]

That's unfortunate but not surprising. I'd rather pay someone and not waste time.

Reading about visual-spatial learner so far makes a lot of sense. Ds is left-handed which I'm reading is more common. He does well in word problems in math---but they have context.

 

Yep, my DS is also left-handed. Two things that helped him a lot with math facts and spelling were (1) letting him use a times tables chart (not a calculator) and (2) typing. The chart provided context in two ways — visually (he could literally see the patterns in the math facts as part of the whole system) and meaningfully (using them in the context of actual problems, versus trying to memorize them as random facts). The spell-checker on his computer has greatly improved his spelling, because he sees the misspelled words underlined in red, and has to correct them as he goes, rather than wait until someone else goes over his writing. Interestingly, his spelling when handwriting lags significantly behind his typing, because it's almost as if his fingers have learned the correct keystrokes, rather than his eyes learning the correct letters, if that makes sense. It's almost more of a body memory than an abstract symbol type memory. Still, his handwritten spelling has improved, just not as quickly as when he types.

[HSmomof2]

Yep, my DS is also left-handed. Two things that helped him a lot with math facts and spelling were (1) letting him use a times tables chart (not a calculator) and (2) typing. The chart provided context in two ways — visually (he could literally see the patterns in the math facts as part of the whole system) and meaningfully (using them in the context of actual problems, versus trying to memorize them as random facts). The spell-checker on his computer has greatly improved his spelling, because he sees the misspelled words underlined in red, and has to correct them as he goes, rather than wait until someone else goes over his writing. Interestingly, his spelling when handwriting lags significantly behind his typing, because it's almost as if his fingers have learned the correct keystrokes, rather than his eyes learning the correct letters, if that makes sense. It's almost more of a body memory than an abstract symbol type memory. Still, his handwritten spelling has improved, just not as quickly as when he types.

Thank you!