Trainwrecks among formerly homeschooled students

[RoughCollie]

After reading some comments here today, I wonder how many of you have known or known about formerly homeschooled students who are "trainwrecks".

 

I have not met anyone like that, and I'm surprised there are enough of those to comment on. I guess I don't get out much.

 

Is this the case -- that there are plenty of homeschoolers who are not as vigilant about educating their children as we are (or at least as we portray ourselves to be)?

 

RC

[Michelle in MO]

some months ago on the high school forums here.

 

I have sometimes wondered if I have a myopic view of homeschooling, based upon my experiences with the normally good to sometimes exceptional homeschoolers I've met. Are we on these forums in the minority? I hope not. Overall, my experience with many homeschoolers (and their parents) has been extremely positive.

 

Good question, though, RC. Anyone?

[Julie in Austin]

I knew one. Here's what happened: the mother felt that she needed to go back to work and so she enrolled two kids in hs. They had to be tested to be placed into classes and both ended up one year behind. The mother told me that she "didn't do much writing with them."

 

I consider this a minor trainwreck, since it basically meant that a year of each child's life was wasted since they ended up graduating at 19.

 

That's why, while I respect the right of people to hs however they want, I think it is a good idea to give some attention to your ps standards so that, if your circumstances change and you have to enroll a child, they do not end up "behind." While I don't really care about "behind" as a concept, I think it can be embarrassing to the child and harm her self-confidence to be in classes where everyone is a year younger.

[Starr]

Sadly "trainwrecks" can happen in school or out. And to those in the best of families. Everyone I know with adult children seem to have cranked up the prayer time! :)

[Ann@thebeach]

I also have not met any, however I have met a few kids I worry a little about that are super shy or socially awkward.

 

I guess statistically there are probably less homeschooled "trainwrecks" than schooled "trainwrecks" don't you think?

[Plucky]

The only trainwrecks I know would also be trainwrecks in PS. One family the mom and both children appear to be low IQ. She homeschools because she was tortured in PS as a child. The other trainwreck is a boy with obvious LDs who has had no testing and the parents coddle him. He also has behavior issues. Is it from lack of discipline? I don't know. I try not to judge situations where I don't have the full picture.

 

Almost all the families I know are doing right by their kids. Good parenting and good homeschooling. Some kids are nice to have around. Some are spoilt brats - yes, this does happen in homeschooling. I just concern myself with my own job of parenting and schoooling. That's plenty for me. :)

[Guest]

Unfortunately, we knew a couple families who shaped our view of homeschooling - and NOT in a good way.

 

DH and I had some friends when we were in high school and their whole family homeschooled. Basically, I have come to believe they were un-schoolers. (No offense to you out there, but these are the only people I have ever known who use this method, so I don't know what else to think except that which I know.)

 

They were a large family and they claimed to homeschool but there were no books, no learning whatsoever. No order, either. The kids had no respect for their parents, got into drugs, alcohol, started having babies in their teens, you get the picture. The house was a disaster. It was just a very negative picture of what homeschooling is. If that's the way you want to live your life, so be it, but that's not the way we wanted to live ours and to us, that's what homeschooling meant: chaos.

 

We have known a few other homeschoolers who, while they "do school", the kids had no excitement and couldn't even tell you what they were studying.

 

So yes, our experiences growing up told us that homeschooling was not good. I am so blessed that we have since had some very positive examples of homeschooling that have helped clear up an otherwise distorted view.

[KatieJ]

Sadly, I have met many trainwrecks and many PS teachers have met many more..that is why tthere are such strong opinions about homeschoolers. I always felt it was my job to let them know that therea re awesome homeschoolers out there doing fabulous jobs with their kidds, they just weren't sharing them with the public school system!

[Tracey in TX]

It happens, but hopefully not often. What one deems a "trainwreck" another might view as a success. I don't focus on home skills, but demand a strong academic study. You could fault this as a failure--maybe justifiably?--but would surpass state academic expectations. On the flip side, a parent who views a DD as wife-only material and not prepping her for college or workforce would find my teaching style a complete trainwreck. It's all a matter of perspective.

I would like to think that the parents here on WTM have similar academic expectations and won't have our children enter school or workforce as one of those "trainwrecks".

 

ETA: Some parents opt to homeschool for learning disabilities. We don't see this from the outside, so don't know what obstacles have been overcome in order to achieve whatever success a child has. For example, a friend is homeschooling her DD, who is autistic due to IUGR. Her main objective is to teach the 11y/o to do basic addition, subtraction, and social skills in order to function in society. It would be sad for the parent if she were to be considered a "failure" because she didn't reach other people's objectives.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I would say over half the homeschoolers I have met here in town fall into this category. I was talking to a teacher while my daughter was dancing Monday, and she and I agreed that writing is the area that is most lacking in many homeschoolers. I told her about the struggle in our own homeschool to get up to par with writing. She offered a lot of support and I was very grateful to have it.

 

My teacher friends tell me lots about the homeschoolers they come in contact with. All of them agree that when done right, homeschooling is a great thing. However, the outcome is going to equal the amount of work that is put in. I have heard about stellar students coming to ps from homeschool environments. But, I have heard plently of horror stories too.

 

Most of the horror stories have to do with poor work habits and lack of skills in areas (again, writing was the biggie).

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

as ps trainwrecks??

 

Just curious.

 

K

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

as ps trainwrecks??

 

Just curious.

 

K

 

 

I don't think so because parental involvement has a lot to do with success. It is not the teacher's job or the school's job to make sure the students succeed.

[dangermom]

It isn't a trainwreck, but a mom in my church recently put her teenage boy into PS for the first time (I think he's the youngest of 3, about 16 or so). He was not up in math at all and apparently had to be put into basic algebra when he should have been in trig/pre-calc. I'm sure he'll be fine, he's a great kid and all, but it's too bad that his math was neglected. I don't know about writing, but I kind of got the impression that overall he wasn't where one would hope for his age.

[mommaduck]

I don't think so because parental involvement has a lot to do with success. It is not the teacher's job or the school's job to make sure the students succeed.

 

You wouldn't know it with the way the system acts sometimes towards parents. (I say system, because I do understand there are some wonderful teachers here)

[Sophia]

I don't know any homeschooled ones, but know PLENTY of ps trainwrecks!

In fact, I used to be one.:D

[Melissa B]

I would not call them trainwrecks, but many of the families in our area are homeschooling children below their "grade level." Some pulled their kids from school because they would not be moving up the following year and some pulled their kids because the areas around here do not have any schools for behavioral or even learning disabilities so each school is trying to cover everything with a very limited staff inside the school. This causes the school system and the parents of such children to really butt heads. I also know families that do not consider book-learning to be of vital importance. Their kids are good kids, but not at the grade level of their peers. We are a farming community and a couple of families homeschool so their kids can spend more time working. I really don't know them well enough to say where they are academically, but they plan to stay in the area and work within the family. So they aren't really thinking about college and test scores, etc.

 

I do know of at least three families that tried to put their children back into elementary or middle school and were surprised and even outraged that their children would be placed a year (and one of the children - two years) behind their grade level due to test scores. Personally, I wasn't surprised.

 

There really are a lot of parents in our area that have no idea how to homeschool. Many parents have a limited amount of education themselves. And they are really reacting to a present day situation. They are not thinking about long term plans, colleges, or anything overly academic. They have no intention of researching theories of education, learning types or homeschool philosophies. Many have no idea what they are going to do. They hope the child will get into middle school or high school at some time. I hear a lot of anger at the school system and how it has failed, forcing the parent to homeschool. But nothing about where to go from there. They are homeschooling to put an end to a situation they are in, but with no clear idea of what to do next.

I have yet to meet a single homeschool family (including those that have chosen to homeschool from the beginning and really know what they are doing) who has taken advantage of the free education available from the community college and state university in our area. They are both an hour from our house, but only about 30 minutes from a majority of the families I know. Sadly, many parents do not have expectations of college for their children. And they say that. "My child really isn't college material." How does a child overcome statements like that coming from his/her parents?

 

So the schools in our area are always struggling with admitting children who were homeschooled. The last I heard Florida simply does not accept high school credit from homeschoolers. I imagine it would be very time consuming. I suppose it would require a test for each subject?

[8filltheheart]

If the definition of train wreck is that the family believes that the level of academics is adequate to meet the future goals of the children and it isn't......then, yes, I know plenty of families that fall into that definition.

 

And, yes, in my yrs of homeschooling, I would not hesitate to state that the level of academic pursuits on this board is an anomaly. It is why I do not discuss homeschooling with my friends and it is why I ask all my homeschooling related questions on this forum.

[Jenne]

My older son is currently a private school trainwreck. I say currently, because he has the intelligence to get himself further in life than he has. Unfortunately, he had too many teachers in public and private school who felt it wasn't their job to help him succeed. He has serious organization problems, to the point where it's probably recognizable as a disability. I had to work, so I couldn't follow him to school, telling him to turn in his work, and his teachers refused to remind him to turn it in. So, despite his intelligence, high test scores, and math and science abilities, he barely passed most of his classes and did not end up getting a diploma. Now, he has married young, cut us out of his life, and apparently hasn't held a job for longer than three months. I wish I could have homeschooled him.

 

With my younger son, we definitely have the writing problem. But that problem started showing its face while he was in public school, so I'm not going to blame homeschooling. (He can write, and writes well, but hates it.) (He's reading this over my shoulder right now. :-) )

[abbeyej]

Yes, absolutely. I wish I hadn't, and it's a good thing I've seen so many successes too...

 

So I really no longer blanche when someone indicates to me their skepticism about home schooling based on others they've met. I've met 'em too. I just hope that my kids and I can be one of the counter-examples. ;)

 

When I first transferred into traditional school (9th grade), one of the public school guidance counselors we met with told us "all home schooled kids fail". We were horrified. The idiot hadn't even seen a single test score, example of my work, or recommendation letter yet... We laughed and went to another school (one of two I eventually attended in high school) that was welcoming, supportive, worked with me and was nothing but complimentary about the schooling I'd received until that time. That guidance counselor is assuredly still an idiot ;), but I've come to have a little more sympathy, having seen some examples that could have seriously skewed my perspective too (had I not also seen home schooling *work*).

 

I think home schooling is wonderful. Obviously. I was home schooled, as were my siblings (though all of us eventually had *some* schooling -- only one of the three of us will have graduated with a traditional diploma). I think I'm reasonably successful. ;) I have a loving family of my own, a college degree, work and volunteer experience, no felonies... ;) My brother seems to have worked out okay too (married, decent job, just back from seven months in Iraq, should finish his rather wandering path to a B.S. this coming year), and my sister is young enough that time will tell... And dh and I are home schooling our own children, and I've taught Latin (and sometimes drama) to other home schooled kids for about four years now.

 

I think home schooling can build family relationships, provide children strong academic backgrounds, allow them the opportunity to pursue interests and talents (academic or otherwise)...

 

And I have no illusion that traditional schools (public, private, parochial) always turn out well-prepared and well-adjusted students. (cough...)

 

But I've met far too many people who thought that "home schooling" -- as in, not going to school -- was enough. That it would make their children creative, attentive, well-prepared, dedicated, disciplined... And no, just *not* going to school isn't enough.

 

I've known high school aged students who never learned to write. No, I don't mean they simply couldn't form a complete sentence... I mean that they couldn't hold a pencil in a reasonable comfortable grip and put their thoughts on paper in a legible and fairly correct manner. I've known parents to be befuddled that their child was unprepared for a liberal arts college when they've done no math beyond basic arithmetic (and that unsystematically). I've known adult-aged former home schoolers who had never held a job for more than 3 months or supported themselves in any way because they were just "too creative" -- or undisciplined, as the case may be...

[Diannab]

I was a homeschooling trainwreck. My Mother did everything the 'wrong' way (IMHO). She pulled me out of 9th grade because I was a disobedient heathen turning juvenile delinquent. She decided to homeschool me.... She enrolled me in a mail in program, something in Illinois I believe... :)

 

She did this so she could still work FT. So I, the juvenile delinquent, was left at home teaching myself. With a shiny new car in the driveway. Yep, you guessed it. School work done in an hour. :) After that I was off in my car! I would normally drive 5-6 hours away to visit friends and got in even more trouble.

 

I was so anti~homeschooling it was not even funny. Then I received my ADN and became an RN after having my oldest daughter. The schools just could not meet my daughters needs for many reasons. LOL. So, my best friend convinced me to try homeschooling her way. Here we are. :D

[StaceyinLA]

And not just educational ones, but trouble-with-the-law ones. Several of the guys in our hs group were arrested for car theft, cc theft, drugs, pornography, etc. Their parents were hs group LEADERS, and one has parents who wrote an entire home school curriculum.

 

I just have to jump in right now and say that none of us should ever believe that we are above anything happening to our children. Home schooling is not THE only answer to raising smart, law-abiding citizens. Statistically, the only reason there are probably not as many hs trainwrecks is because there are not as many home schooled kids. I have learned that statistics can be used to show anything people WANT them to, and all home schoolers are not going to Harvard, or even to college!

 

My family is a prime example. I have 4 kids. Oldest dd is in college. She scored an average score on her ACT, did okay her first semester, blew her 2nd sem playing around and is now serious and doing well her 3rd semester. She is bright, has held a job for the last 3 years, paid for her car insurance and gas ever since she has owned her car, and now works, goes to school and lives in an apartment with another home schooled friend. Lots of home schooled kids show up at their apartment to hang out. One family in particular has 5 kids that are, IMO, exceptionally smart. All but one of them drinks and smokes pot. Dd has had to really stand firm about kids not doing these things in their apartment.

 

Okay, that was a little off-subject. I could go on and on about the hs'ed kids in our group (of over 300 families). However, I'm just supposed to be talking about MY kids.

 

My 2nd dd is about to take GED classes, finish her courses at home, graduate in the spring and head to cosmetology school. This is what she REALLY wants to do, and the cosmetology licensing board requires the GED if you don't have an accredited diploma. She has no desire to go to college. She has worked, paid insurance and gas for her car, etc. just like her older sister.

 

Dd#3 started ps this year (first one to go). She is 15 and a sophomore. She did have to go in as a freshman because she didn't take the same 5 cores they tested her on so she couldn't pass all 5 tests. She will graduate on time, and next year she'll jump to junior status where she should be, but she had to start "behind."

 

Ds is an 8th grader. He is totally different than his sisters. He thinks differently and is very all-around smart (not intended to mean his sisters aren't smart). We don't know yet whether he'll go to school for HS or stay home. Either way, I know this boy will be able to do whatever he wants to (let's just hope he wants to do something useful!)

 

All this is to say that there is no "set" pattern for home schoolers. MY goal in home schooling is to raise Christians who can become productive members of society. I hope for my girls that means working until they have children and then staying home with them. I hope for my son that means being able to comfortably support a family. I hope for all of them that they live for the Lord, enjoy life and enjoy family!

[StaceyinLA]

I didn't mean to go off on quite that large of a tangent...

[NCMom]

My oldest just graduated after 12 years of homeschooling so we have known plenty of hs'ers and only 1 or 2 trainwrecks, lol. We also know lots of public and private schooled teens through church, martial arts and swimming.

 

People here are not well educated at all and I would say (judging by my co-op classes;)) that most of their children get a very average education. BUT, nearly everyone goes to the CC for most of their last two years and they get the remedial classes if they need them.

 

I have never known any homeschooler not to have college opportunities, etc. if they really wanted them. I had one kid in a co-op a few years ago who was 15 and couldn't write a decent sentence. He is doing fine now and will graduate, has lots of cc credits and got a pretty good SAT score... He did the time and work and "caught up".

 

Even if the parents are doing what some of us might consider to be a mediocre job, we might be surprised at how much the child themselves will do to get where they want to go once they hit a certain age. Maybe not ideal but that's life.

 

The two kinda trainwrecks I knew were families from the UL list and local unschooling gatherings, one a seriously hardcore vocal proponent of unschooling. They had family problems and had to put the kids in school which was a true disaster. The other family who we knew has a college age daughter who has large gaps, few social skills and little direction. But she did start out in the ps and it was the exactly the same for her there...adding in bullying and other misery she had to endure.

 

Still, she doesn't just sit home all day and she is passionate about music, volunteering and a few other areas so I guess she is still finding her way. I do not consider her a trainwreck, though I'll bet many here would :001_smile:

 

Maybe I just live under a rock, but hs'ers and psers seem about even to me - some well educated, some not as much, but nearly all find some way to get where they are going in the end.

 

Georgia

[Murphy101]

The only trainwrecks I know would also be trainwrecks in PS.

 

I would say this too. I don't think their kids wouldn't have faired any better in public school because education just isn't on their top 10 list of priorities, kwim?

 

One is my dh's aunt and her kids. She was an "unschooler" again not slamming anyone here who is, just saying that was her own claimed excuse. I kid you not her 2 dd graduated barely able to write, read, and do basic math. One still doesn't have steady and probably never will have decent work prospects and sends her 3 out of wedlock kids to public school and is an alcoholic. The other seems to be much more level headed, but had to take 2 YEARS of reading and math at her own financial and emotional expense via a tutor so she could attend vocational school for nearly 4 years. And even then, she had to pay for a LOT of remedial courses to get through it. She harbors a LOT of resentment against her mother for it. To my knowledge there were no LD issues. The mom just never got her act together and didn't think it important. Didn't even give the girls a transcript at graduation or anything. When we decided to hs, my dh's entire family completely freaked out because that woman had been their only experience with it. She said last christmas that we should be grateful to her for "paving the hs-ing road" for us.:glare: Um. no. don't think so. It's only been the last year that my in-laws have accepted that not all hs-ers are like that and we might not be entirely messing up our kids for life. Partly because already by 8th grade my oldest is YEARS ahead of of the education his cousins received by graduation. So we are at the point of the family saying, "well at least they won't be as bad off as ___'s kids...":glare:

[lovemyboys]

They were a large family and they claimed to homeschool but there were no books, no learning whatsoever. No order, either.

 

The house was a disaster. It was just a very negative picture of what homeschooling is. If that's the way you want to live your life, so be it, but that's not the way we wanted to live ours and to us, that's what homeschooling meant: chaos.

 

 

A friend of ours doesn't homeschool but many of us friends do, so she's seen lots of homeschooled kids and homes. She has a relative by marriage who chose to pull her ds out of middle school and homeschool.

 

Df told me that mom and son sleep til noon or so, get up and putz around, he might look at a subject here or there. Df isn't even sure they've got curriculum, maybe he does things online. There are no maps or posters on the wall, experiments underway, etc.

 

She's wondering when they will tire of this and send him back to school, at which point he'll probably test a year or more behind. She cringes when they talk about homeschooling since she's seen it done by others and the rest of the family hasn't. They're definitely a family that'll put a bad rap on homeschooling. Detoxing from school is one thing, he's been out of school for a couple years now.

[mommaduck]

My view of a "homeschool trainwreck" is where no learning is happening and everyone has gone wild. Much like many public schooled children (not that all ps kids are like this, but there are many families that simply leave the kid to the system).

 

I've never known any. The only trainwrecks I've seen were from family disaster (sudden divorce, a foster care system/school system both failing a kid that needs help, etc)

 

I also don't believe that a child going wild once they are legal is a trainwreck...they are simply making their own bad choices. A child can come from a perfect home, perfect school, and still go on a wild binge.

[lovemyboys]

When we decided to hs, my dh's entire family completely freaked out because that woman had been their only experience with it. She said last christmas that we should be grateful to her for "paving the hs-ing road" for us.:glare: Um. no. don't think so. It's only been the last year that my in-laws have accepted that not all hs-ers are like that and we might not be entirely messing up our kids for life.

 

 

:lol::001_huh::lol:

[dragons in the flower bed]

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[StaceyinLA]

there was one who we just adored as a person. He wrote me a letter at my dd's graduation and gave it to me (apparently much of our "Christian" home school group had totally shunned him - to me that isn't what Christ's love is about so we just kept on spending time with him as a family). The child couldn't write a complete sentence, couldn't spell, etc. He mentioned to us many times that, though he knew a lot about scripture, he felt he could never go to college.

 

Well, I am happy to say that, after all his troubles, he is active in his church (not the type of church we would attend, but hey), he is going to the cc and he seems to be really doing well. We no longer really associate with the family because their religious beliefs are SO different from ours, but I am always happy to see him doing well.

[Paula in MS]

The trainwrecks that I have seen personally have not been academic. I personally know of 2 girls that have gotten pregnant--one in high school and one in Jr. high. Both girls had fathers who were in the ministry. They were both educated in that they did their school work every day. I think the real problem that many homeschoolers have is that when work is finished (4 hours a day in many cases), the kids have nothing to do. This is something that I am already struggling with and my dd is only 6. What do you do for the rest of the day (that is constructive.) If you finish school before lunch every day :lol: (I wish!) and have no homework, what do they do to stay out of trouble?

 

What do you think? Is there anything to this?

 

Paula

 

P. S. I know that many of us that are educating classically have days much longer than 4 hours; but, many people in my area use standard Abeka all the way and can be finished before lunch.

[Ohio12]

After reading some comments here today, I wonder how many of you have known or known about formerly homeschooled students who are "trainwrecks".

 

I have not met anyone like that, and I'm surprised there are enough of those to comment on. I guess I don't get out much.

 

Is this the case -- that there are plenty of homeschoolers who are not as vigilant about educating their children as we are (or at least as we portray ourselves to be)?

 

RC

 

I don't have time to read all the other replies, but I do know of some families whose homeschooled kids were way behind when they entered into the Christian school where I used to teach. My MIL still teaches there and reminds me of this. :tongue_smilie: I think some people do a great job (the majority probably do) and then there are some who do a terrible job. Just like anything else, parenting, teaching, landscaping, etc etc.

[Ohio12]

The trainwrecks that I have seen personally have not been academic. I personally know of 2 girls that have gotten pregnant--one in high school and one in Jr. high. Both girls had fathers who were in the ministry. They were both educated in that they did their school work every day. I think the real problem that many homeschoolers have is that when work is finished (4 hours a day in many cases), the kids have nothing to do. This is something that I am already struggling with and my dd is only 6. What do you do for the rest of the day (that is constructive.) If you finish school before lunch every day :lol: (I wish!) and have no homework, what do they do to stay out of trouble?

 

What do you think? Is there anything to this?

 

Paula

 

P. S. I know that many of us that are educating classically have days much longer than 4 hours; but, many people in my area use standard Abeka all the way and can be finished before lunch.

 

 

that is a sad story, but I think even if you are done with school by lunch the girls could have tutored, volunteered at an old age home, gotten a job, done 4H, helped out young moms in their church, done housework or baking or played and practiced sports.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

The trainwrecks that I have seen personally have not been academic. I personally know of 2 girls that have gotten pregnant--one in high school and one in Jr. high. Both girls had fathers who were in the ministry. They were both educated in that they did their school work every day. I think the real problem that many homeschoolers have is that when work is finished (4 hours a day in many cases), the kids have nothing to do. This is something that I am already struggling with and my dd is only 6. What do you do for the rest of the day (that is constructive.) If you finish school before lunch every day :lol: (I wish!) and have no homework, what do they do to stay out of trouble?

 

What do you think? Is there anything to this?

 

Paula

 

P. S. I know that many of us that are educating classically have days much longer than 4 hours; but, many people in my area use standard Abeka all the way and can be finished before lunch.

 

I was at public school from 7-2:15. I found plenty of time between after school and the time my parent's got home to engage in inappropriate behavior. I would think if you are homeschooled, you are better supervised, but I could be wrong.

 

K

[Plucky]

My younger kids are done in 4 hours or less but there are still not enough hours in the day to play legos or dolls, write a book complete with drawings, take pictures or make videos (a favorite around here), ride bikes, play badminton or practice other sports, compose a song on the piano - including notes on music paper, dress up the cat or dog, call a friend, play a computer game or chess, bug any of your siblings or especially your MOM. LOL Half the time we are out by 2 p.m. so my kids really cherish their freetime.

[gardenschooler]

After reading some comments here today, I wonder how many of you have known or known about formerly homeschooled students who are "trainwrecks".

 

I have not met anyone like that, and I'm surprised there are enough of those to comment on. I guess I don't get out much.

 

Is this the case -- that there are plenty of homeschoolers who are not as vigilant about educating their children as we are (or at least as we portray ourselves to be)?

 

RC

 

I haven't known any all-out trainwrecks. I've known some people who I thought were a little too far on the lax side, even as their kids got older. Those same kids ended up either a) doing well at cc classes in high school, thereby being plenty prepared for college (and receiving scholarships!), or b) going to public high school, and doing just fine there, too.

 

But trainwrecks? No, can't say I've seen any.

[Plucky]

I forgot to mention the weirdest kid I ever knew. He was still wearing capes and pretending to be a superhero at 16. His parents had him do an independent program but were very lax about it. He ended up getting a perfect SAT score and a college scholarship. Learned Chinese and did an international program for a while. Now he's a successful and well off man with a wife and kids. I would've never in a million years predicted this.

 

So, while he wasn't a trainwreck he sure did look like it before he was done becoming who he is today.

[dragons in the flower bed]

If you finish school before lunch every day :lol: (I wish!) and have no homework, what do they do to stay out of trouble?

 

What do you think? Is there anything to this?

 

Paula, I think there may be something to this, but also to the efficiency of homeschooling over the long-term, as well.

 

I know that in my case, by the time I was sixteen, I knew how to manage my time, prepare healthy meals, handle my own finances, set goals and meet them, while my peers were clueless. In fact, only last year -- we were all around 24/25/26 years old -- did I see my friends who went to school and college catch up with me, use datebooks, set up financial plans for emergencies, and such like this.

 

Not only do homeschooled kids have more real world knowledge and skills as teens, but they have premature options, too.

 

My partner's cousins kids are homeschooled, and have thus far all graduated from high school at fourteen. Grandmother's reaction: Now what are they going to do? I think that she nailed it. The girls'll be done with college at seventeen at the latest, and what college kid doesn't get distracted by romance and sow a few wild oats?

[G5052]

I've taught paid classes for five years now with homeschooled grade school children, and I've been an adjunct professor at local community colleges for nine years now. So I see the whole spectrum from kids who have obviously had very little if any education at home to homeschooled college students who probably could have done well at an Ivy League school.

 

Frankly I've come to the conclusion that homeschoolers in the broad sense are no better or worse than those who send their children off to the classroom. There are some horrific failures, but some great successes too. At the college level, I frankly haven't seen huge differences between the broad spectrum of homeschooled, public schooled, and private schooled kids. There are some in each category that aren't ready for college, and there are some who are fully ready.

 

It bugs me though that parents choose to take responsibility for their children's education at home -- and then some of them do very little. That's a crime IMHO. I've had 8-10 y.o. kids tell me in class (no mom around) that they basically play all day while mom focuses on the older kids, takes care of the babies, pursues hobbies, etc. And I've had kids slightly older than that in a writing class who were reading at maybe a second grade level and the mom downplayed that and said that they'd catch up someday.

 

We have a lot of successes though, but so do families who send their darlings off to the classroom. Interesting!

[Jenny in Florida]

One is a boy whom everyone except his parents seemed to know had some sort of diagnosable condition. (My best guess was Asberger's Syndrome, but I'm far from an expert.) I don't really know where he stood academically, but socially he was a mess. I really liked the mom and even the boy, but it got to the point at which we were kind of embarassed to go out with them, especially in situations in which we would be readily identifiable as homeschoolers.

 

The other was more complicated. The girl had started in public school, but couldn't pass the required standardized test in third grade. They held her back a year, in theory to remediate, but she still didn't pass the following year. Basically, once she was told she was a failure, she just tuned out and quit trying. She was tall for her age and already starting to develop. So, when the school said they wanted to retain her for another year, he mom said no. She pulled her out and began homeschooling.

 

Two years later, she was still way behind academically and absolutely uninterested in anything related to school or learning. She watched a lot of "educational" TV and did a little math. Her mom really did try hard, but the girl was just so resistant that not much progress got made. Because she is now identified as a homeschooler, I'm sure others view her as a homeschooled trainwreck, but I'm not sure that would be fair.

 

I've certainly run into a few families over the years in which I was pretty sure I saw the makings of some trainwrecks. But we haven't kept in touch with any of them enough to know if I'm right. For the most part, it seems to me that there are no more disasters proportionally among homeschoolers than there are in public schools, possible a lot fewer.

[tibbyl]

Without giving it a minute's thought, I can think of three or four immediately. And two of those also have younger homeschooled (I'd call it more self-schooled) siblings.

[Jugglin'5]

I forgot to mention the weirdest kid I ever knew. He was still wearing capes and pretending to be a superhero at 16. His parents had him do an independent program but were very lax about it. He ended up getting a perfect SAT score and a college scholarship. Learned Chinese and did an international program for a while. Now he's a successful and well off man with a wife and kids. I would've never in a million years predicted this.

 

So, while he wasn't a trainwreck he sure did look like it before he was done becoming who he is today.

 

It sounds like he was probably the kind of kid who would have been eaten for lunch at school. He would probably have been bullied, miserable, and had serious confidence problems. That is the kind of kid that homeschooling can be a lifesaver for. I have one of those kids, but she's a girl. She would be a basket case in ps, but she is thriving at home, free to be a bit odd, and slowly learning how to deal with people who didn't care about King Alfred when they were 6. She gets plenty of this practice with her own, more conventional siblings, and playing sports. I really think she would be suicidal, or at least very depressed, if she had to go to school.

[Jenny in Florida]

The trainwrecks that I have seen personally have not been academic. I personally know of 2 girls that have gotten pregnant--one in high school and one in Jr. high. Both girls had fathers who were in the ministry. They were both educated in that they did their school work every day. I think the real problem that many homeschoolers have is that when work is finished (4 hours a day in many cases), the kids have nothing to do. This is something that I am already struggling with and my dd is only 6. What do you do for the rest of the day (that is constructive.) If you finish school before lunch every day :lol: (I wish!) and have no homework, what do they do to stay out of trouble?

 

Well, the thing is that I, personally, knew of three girls in my public high school who got pregnant before age 16. So, this is certainly not something that can be laid at homeschooling's doorstep.

 

As for "staying out of trouble," I've always thought that the kids I know who've gotten through adolescence in the happiest and healthiest way are those who have a real interest in something. I know the word "passion" makes people nervous, but that's what I think I'm talking about. They need a reason to make it worth getting out of bed in the morning, a reason to motivate them to do well with their basic responsibilities in order to earn the right to do the other stuff.

 

In my case, I've always said that my entire academic career--and by extension my life--would have been different if my high school had offered a drama class or even a club. Theatre was what I loved, and if my school had made it available to me, I would have been a whole lot more invested in staying there and doing well. Even if I'd had to go off campus for it, to community theatre, for example, but had something healthy to do with my time (not to mention something for my parents to hold over my head), that would have helped. As it was, not so much. I was a public school trainwreck, and it took me years to recover to the degree that I did.

 

By contrast, the kids I knew who were athletes or band geeks or on the staff of the newspaper or who were really heavily involved in off-campus things like dance or church youth groups came through to young adulthood relatively unscathed.

 

I think it's a combination of, as I said, just plain keeping kids busy and involved (so that they don't have time on their hands to get into trouble) but also helping them to feel they are doing something real and meaningful with their lives. I remember very clearly that sense that I was just spinning my wheels waiting until I was "old enough" to "get on with my life." I was absolutely convinced that I was capable of so much more than I was being allowed to do. (And, by the way, I wasn't wrong.)

 

This is one of the reasons I've been do determined to nurture and support my kids' extracurricular interests. I knew from before they were born that I wanted to give them every opportunity to develop those passions. It's also why I was willing to discuss my daughter's desire to go off to college early.

 

Of course, in our case that may have worked just a little too well, as the odometer on my car and the paucity of funds in our bank account will testify! But, hey, the kids are happy and healthy, so it's worth it, right?

[sassenach]

This is a really interesting thread. I actually need to be reminded that there ARE hs failures, because I seriously have not met any. Dh and I didn't "agree" with hsing until we had been in youth ministry for several years. We started to realize that our top notch students were all hsed, with only a few exceptions. None of them were social retards (most were the most popular in our groups) and all were high achievers. Almost every single high school hser I know starts cc in 11th grade, if not sooner. I have yet to meet any that have gone way off the deep end, but I have seen some rebellion. All of the kids that I've seen rebel after high school came from families that I would call very legalistic. Since moving to Cali, I have to say that I've seen more kids that I would call socially awkward. I'm really not sure why I see more here than I did in Florida. We've also run into some attitude problems here, in the sense that for whatever reason the hsers we've interacted with seem to think that they are on the same level with adults. To the point that they've spoken to dh is a manner that was very disrespectful. I really don't know why we've seen that here in Cali, vs never having that experience in FL. There's a lot of things about this area that I have no explanation for, lol.

[sassenach]

The trainwrecks that I have seen personally have not been academic. I personally know of 2 girls that have gotten pregnant--one in high school and one in Jr. high. Both girls had fathers who were in the ministry. They were both educated in that they did their school work every day. I think the real problem that many homeschoolers have is that when work is finished (4 hours a day in many cases), the kids have nothing to do. .

 

I think there is a difference between academic failures and teenage pregnancy. I was psed, involved in multiple sports, employment, outside activities and academic enough to do 4 years of credits in 3 and yet, managed to become pregnant at 16. Speaking for myself, too much extra time was not the issue. I don't think I'd put this in the category of hs failure, but that's just me.

 

I don't disagree with you about having outside activities in the sense that I feel like hsers (like many psers) often depend on the tv and computer to be their kid's only entertainment.

[sassenach]

 

But I've met far too many people who thought that "home schooling" -- as in, not going to school -- was enough. That it would make their children creative, attentive, well-prepared, dedicated, disciplined... And no, just *not* going to school isn't enough.

 

.

 

 

BINGO, I think you hit in on the head.

[Pink Fairy]

I don't personally know any train wreck types now, but about 15 years ago I knew a family who kept their kids out of school for "moral" reasons, but yet they didn't provide them an education at home either. If I remember right, the teenage boy could barely read. I wonder sometimes how those poor kids are managing today...

[mommaduck]

I have to amend my posting...I DO know one trainwrecked family (IMNSHO). I have some in-laws that homeschool. The dad is determined that his kids NEVER get a degree and doesn't want them graduating highschool. He's decided that the kids will school up to the 8th level and then just have them repeat the 8th level over and over until they are 16 and able to "drop out" in this state. THAT is a trainwreck!

[swellmomma]

Well I know of one that is too soon to tell if the kids are too young to determine if they will be trainwrecks. But she homeschooled from the start, considered herself an unschooler and laughed at the fact her kids did what they wanted all day while she laid on the couch watching tv. WHen her 2nd marriage started falling apart she decided to enroll them in ps. The 5 kids were 3-4 years behind their peers and it was suggested they be put int he special ed classes to give them time to catch up, since this wasn't a case of simply doing extra tutoring to catch up. She left them in for 4 months then found an alternative program that allows the children to come and go as they please, they can nap all day or work on one of the projects etc. The kids have been in the program for 1 semester and will be starting again next week, and I see no change in what they have learned, or what she is doing to help them catch up to their peers. This is not a case of learning disabled kids, but of lazy parenting/teaching. I can see them beling classified as trainwrecks down the line.

[dawn of ns]

Sadly, I have met many trainwrecks and many PS teachers have met many more..that is why tthere are such strong opinions about homeschoolers. I always felt it was my job to let them know that therea re awesome homeschoolers out there doing fabulous jobs with their kidds, they just weren't sharing them with the public school system!

 

I think teacher have got to realize that their experience of homeschoolers may be warped and biased. They'll get the get ones for home homeschooling was a failure simply because that's the recourse if you can't make homeschooling work. They very often don''t get to see all the successes because those kids aren't in school.

 

It's rather like a trauma surgeon maintaining that driving cars is inherently dangerous and should be avoided because all he evers sees are the disasters.

[frogpond1]

back into the system weren't the success stories of homeschooling. I know that people return to PS for different reasons, but I think teachers see a lot of train wrecks and that forms impressions in their minds.

 

I have seen wrecks in the making when parents aren't teaching writing or math and expectations are low or non-existent. It is always sad to me.