Is the switch child abuse?

[poppy]

An NFL player has been indicted for using a switch on his 4 year old.
Photos show the child has many marks.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/12/minnesota_vikings_running_back_adrian_peterson_reportedly_indicted_for_child.html

My main response to this is, how on EARTH were those photos made public? That's deplorable.

My second response was, I wonder if there are WTM posters who would not consider this abuse.

So I am opening the topic, cautiously. Would like to hear other opinions.

[Ellie]

So, are you SURE you want to start such a hot topic?

[catz]

I am anti-spanking in general.  But to me, if you leave a mark, it's abuse.  This looks like clear abuse to me. 

[Guest]

Yes. I am not looking at the photos, but there is never a valid reason to whip any child with a switch. Never.

[mamajag]

Yep, that is abuse. I don't see how it isn't. FTR, I am not antispanking.

[JustEm]

Yes that is clear abuse!

[Truscifi]

Legally, spanking with a switch is not automatically child abuse here. But that is.

[Annie G]

To me it is clearly abuse.  The child is 4 and there are multiple marks that bled.  Seems like a much more clear case of a parent needing a visit from CPS than a parent who allows a 6 year old out of the yard alone. 

[amy g.]

I don't think any kind of hitting/spanking is a great parenting strategy. That said, if it leaves a mark, it is child abuse. It sounds like in this case, many marks were left, including open cuts. I'm pretty sure that is criminal.

[Slartibartfast]

That is abuse.

 

Those pictures are horrible.

[poppy]

So, are you SURE you want to start such a hot topic?

 

I was kind of cringingly curious to see if it would be a hot topic.

I am quite relieved it is not.

[Mimm]

As someone who was beaten with a switch... yes.

 

And I never looked like that. Can there even be any question in this case??

[AmandaVT]

What Peterson did was abuse - from the report: "beating allegedly resulted in numerous injuries to child, including cuts and bruises to the child’s back, buttocks, ankles, legs, scrotum"

 

I'm a football fan and follow many sports writers on twitter - I've never seen a group of people so collectively horrified. I'm not going to click on the pictures - they'll probably keep me up at night, but apparently they're pretty terrible.

 

There are many other and more effective ways to parent aside from beating your child. So to answer your question, yes, using the switch is abuse.

[redsquirrel]

In my state, if you hit a child with a closed fist or an object you will be dealing with CPS. There are other ways to hit a child that will also bring about a visit, but to answer your question that would be a yes.

 

And I give it about 5 mins before this is closed down, lol.

 

Doesn't poor SWB have enough to do with the whole photo/copyright issue?

[Guest submarines]

So, are you SURE you want to start such a hot topic?

And that's a hot topic because?

 

If there are still people here who think that hitting a child with an object is not abuse, this topic has to be started and restarted again, because those with the opposite opinion need to speak up.

[Spryte]

Abuse.  

 

Not opening the pictures, I have no need to see.

 

Just reading the quoted excerpts above made me cringe.

 

[Catwoman]

YES. YES. YES.

 

It is most definitely abuse.

[Slartibartfast]

In my state, if you hit a child with a closed fist or an object you will be dealing with CPS. There are other ways to hit a child that will also bring about a visit, but to answer your question that would be a yes.

 

And I give it about 5 mins before this is closed down, lol.

 

Doesn't poor SWB have enough to do with the whole photo/copyright issue?

I don't think this is a hot topic. If people look at the picture, read the article, and think that is just fine and dandy then they are *insane.* This is so far over the line I would be shocked if anyone thought it was ok.

[zoobie]

Not opening the pictures, but yes, abuse. That poor baby. :(

[NorthwestMom]

Abuse.

 

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

It's assault if you do it to an adult, so heck yeah it's abuse to a child.

[Jennifer3141]

That is abuse. And I hope the abuser ends up in prison forever.

[Catwoman]

An NFL player has been indicted for using a switch on his 4 year old.

Photos show the child has many marks.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/12/minnesota_vikings_running_back_adrian_peterson_reportedly_indicted_for_child.html

My main response to this is, how on EARTH were those photos made public? That's deplorable.

My second response was, I wonder if there are WTM posters who would not consider this abuse.

So I am opening the topic, cautiously. Would like to hear other opinions.

Wasn't one of his other children (a toddler) recently beaten to death by the mother's boyfriend?

[JustEm]

In my state spanking is considered abuse! And I'm glad it is.

[Caroline]

Wasn't one of his other children (a toddler) recently beaten to death by the mother's boyfriend?

Yes, about a year ago.

 

Vikings have removed him from the game on Sunday. From what I saw on SportsCenter, it sounds like he isn't denying it happened.

[Zoo Keeper]

If the pictures from the linked report are correct, what was done to that poor little child was abuse. :crying:

 

No matter what your opinion on spanking, switching, time outs, baby-wearing, co-sleeping, bottle-feeding, the tooth fairy, Santa, Halloween, or any other squabble worthy topic, that was not discipline, that was abuse.  :mad:

[texasmama]

I looked at the pictures.  Leaving a mark on a child during discipline is against the law.  In my long-ago former career as a CPS worker, I investigated and substantiated physical abuse cases much less severe.  This is clearly abuse. 

[Truscifi]

I looked at the pictures.  Leaving a mark on a child during discipline is against the law.  In my long-ago former career as a CPS worker, I investigated and substantiated physical abuse cases much less severe.  This is clearly abuse. 

 

Yep.

[unsinkable]

Yes, it is abuse.

 

And even more dangerous, is that he stands by what he did, and is proud that his son didn't cry:

 

"The police report also includes text messages between Peterson and the boy’s mother. First he texted to her: “You will be mad at me about his leg.†Later, he texted: “He got about five more pops than normal. He didn’t drop one tear! … He’s tough as nails.â€

In further text messages, Peterson allegedly said, “Never do I go overboard! But all my kids will know, hey daddy has the biggie heart but don’t play no games when it comes to acting right.â€

When investigators questioned Peterson, they say he told them he regarded it as a normal spanking and not excessive. He told investigators, “To be honest with you, I feel very confident with my actions because I know my intent,†and when asked if he would reconsider using switches in the future, said he would never “eliminate whooping my kids … because I know how being spanked has helped me in my life.â€

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/adrian-peterson-indicted-for-child-abuse/

 

 

To me, this man will not recognize what he did as abuse bc, most likely, he would have to recognize that what was done to him was abuse.

[redsquirrel]

I don't think this is a hot topic. If people look at the picture, read the article, and think that is just fine and dandy then they are *insane.* This is so far over the line I would be shocked if anyone thought it was ok.

 

Ok, well, seeing as the subject line is 'is the switch child abuse' and clearly some people here think it is not I figured this would get heated quickly.

 

I was under the impression, in the years I have been reading here, there there are people on this board who switch babies and think it is fine, and think the Pearls are dandy people. I would LOOOOVE to be wrong about that.

 

I am sure there are people here who will argue that what this article describes is incorrect switching or that person did it wrong or something.

 

Or not, and things have changed for the better. I would love to think so, but I suspect that is optimistic to the point of foolishness.

[umsami]

Historically, the switch was considered normal parenting.  But then again, at that time, schools would cane students, etc.  

 

Things have moved on.  Pretty much anything that leaves a mark is abuse.  And on a side note, there have been numerous studies that show corporal punishment isn't effective long run.  

 

That poor child. :(

[Chelli]

As someone who has spanked my kids (never with a switch) and has been spanked (with a switch), I can honestly say that those pictures were horrible. I cannot imagine hitting a child so hard or repeatedly that it would leave open wounds. That doesn't just cross the line from a spank/no spank debate, it plunges right into the deep end of child abuse. I pray for that little boy and his mom. I hope the father goes to prison.

[Murphy101]

I am not anti-spanking at all.

 

I do not view what that child got as a spanking.

 

I think it was abuse.

 

ETA: And I was switched and so were many I grew up with. Many of them have also switched their kids on rare occasion. Never looked like that afterward.

[Heatherwith4]

Yes, it's abuse.

[Guest]

Historically, the switch was considered normal parenting. But then again, at that time, schools would cane students, etc.

 

Things have moved on. Pretty much anything that leaves a mark is abuse. And on a side note, there have been numerous studies that show corporal punishment isn't effective long run.

 

That poor child. :(

Indeed. And clearly, that something was once viewed as acceptable does not make it still acceptable. That is why humans evolve. Thankfully, we generally improve on our past behavior.

[happi duck]

Yes, it's abuse!

[Mandylubug]

Wow, that was not a "Switching" that was flat out abuse. Poor baby :(

[Kathryn]

Those aren't "marks," those are open wounds. I think of a mark as like a red mark after being spanked. That is most definitely abuse and I'm appalled that the first grand jury didn't indict.

[bolt.]

There are two questions here:

 

1. Was this event, this kind if switching, with these results abuse?

 

2. Is every and any use of a switch always abuse?

 

I think we may be unanamous on the first question. If you want real answers on the second question, you would probably get more balance, reason and honesty if you didn't start with the first question (and photos).

[Mimm]

Yes, it is abuse.

 

And even more dangerous, is that he stands by what he did, and is proud that his son didn't cry:

 

"The police report also includes text messages between Peterson and the boy’s mother. First he texted to her: “You will be mad at me about his leg.†Later, he texted: “He got about five more pops than normal. He didn’t drop one tear! … He’s tough as nails.â€

In further text messages, Peterson allegedly said, “Never do I go overboard! But all my kids will know, hey daddy has the biggie heart but don’t play no games when it comes to acting right.â€

When investigators questioned Peterson, they say he told them he regarded it as a normal spanking and not excessive. He told investigators, “To be honest with you, I feel very confident with my actions because I know my intent,†and when asked if he would reconsider using switches in the future, said he would never “eliminate whooping my kids … because I know how being spanked has helped me in my life.â€

 

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/09/12/adrian-peterson-indicted-for-child-abuse/

 

 

To me, this man will not recognize what he did as abuse bc, most likely, he would have to recognize that what was done to him was abuse.

 

This just breaks my heart. I feel ill reading those texts. :(

[HRAAB]

I don't spank, but I don't think a swat or spanking is necessarily child abuse.  It depends.  When you start using plumbing line, branches, whatever, it is not a spanking and becomes abuse.  If those pictures are accurate, there is no question that was abuse.  He needs to face charges

 

And that's hard for me to say.  I'm quite a fan of Adrian's.  Well, I used to be.

[Desert Strawberry]

There are so many lash marks on that child. So many. That is systematic abuse. That is not a spanking.

[Catwoman]

There are two questions here:

 

1. Was this event, this kind if switching, with these results abuse?

 

2. Is every and any use of a switch always abuse?

 

I think we may be unanamous on the first question. If you want real answers on the second question, you would probably get more balance, reason and honesty if you didn't start with the first question (and photos).

Is there any particular reason why you would like to start that debate?

[Susan Wise Bauer]

1. Abuse.

 

2. Got too much else to moderate for this. Really, this isn't one of those debates that needs lots of careful parsing out. Just, 1).

 

So, closing.

 

SWB