Why does marriage get a bad rap?

[Night Elf]

I'm thinking about the jokes about marriage, like how couples fight all the time or that sex is non-existent or that a good life is over once married. Historically, is marriage typically bad? Where did these thoughts come from?

[JustEm]

Well for roughly 50% of the married population in the US marriage is bad since that is the estimated average divorce rate.

[JustEm]

People make jokes about things that they can relate to.  So its understandable if you are in an unhealthy marriage or you witnessed one growing up you are likely to make jokes about it.  Since an unhealthy marriage is just as common as a healthy one it isn't surprising that jokes are made about marriages being bad.  Its just like all the jokes about how your life is going to drastically change once you have a baby(never sleep again, they'll eat up all your money, never have time for sex, etc.)  That is what many experience with becoming parents and because of their attitudes and how they handle the changes it can leave a negative opinion of the subject.

[MistiDelaney]

Marriage is mostly very hard work. 

 

Not only do both people have to give 100% to make it work, but both have to be pulling in the same direction.  That can be very, very difficult to manage.

 

I have been married an embarrassing number of times, and until my current marriage (12 years and still adore each other) all of my marriages resembled the jokes after a year or two.  Some people are under the impression that if it's right, it won't require any work.  Some people are lazy and selfish. And many people don't communicate easily under stress and it's easy to find themselves pulling in opposite directions.

[happi duck]

I think when something uncomfortable is even a little bit true people kind of joke to check if anyone else feels the same. Some of these become common thoughts/jokes.

 

Just my two cents!

[suzybluecheese]

Maybe the issue is less about marriage and more about our (humans) sense of humor.  Just throwing it out there.

[TammyinTN]

I agree...marriage is hard work.  That said, I love being married.  There's lots of give and take especially when raising a family.  

[suzybluecheese]

I think when something uncomfortable is even a little bit true people kind of joke to check if anyone else feels the same. Some of these become common thoughts/jokes.

 

Just my two cents!

 

Yeah.  This is what I meant with the above reply.

 

If I'm having a rough patch in my marriage, with my job, or with my family, hearing someone with the same issue is a bit of a comfort.  I don't mind someone making light of a tough subject if we are both going through the same thing.

[MFG]

Well for roughly 50% of the married population in the US marriage is bad since that is the estimated average divorce rate.

The divorce rate in recent history has actually never been that high.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/health/19divo.html?_r=0

[elegantlion]

Anytime you sign yourself up for a long term relationship with anyone, there needs to humor involved.  :biggrinjester:  I mean how many jokes about jobs and coworkers are there? :boxing_smiley:  Many. 

 

 

[wendyroo]

I might be way off base, but I don't think the jokes are about bad marriages - I think they are about good marriages and finding humor in common trials that couples overcome.  It is like joking about the trials of raising a toddler or teen; I don't think anyone is saying that the child is bad or the parent is bad or the family is bad, just that there are parts of the gig that suck and everyone can relate to that.  I think anyone who is married will admit that there are parts of their marriage that aren't all sunshine and roses, and some of those parts are common enough complaints that people start joking about them because lots of people will be able to relate.  I don't think the jokers really want out of a bad marriage; I think they want to laugh about how ridiculous it is sometimes being incredibly in love with someone and completely exasperated with them at the same time. 

 

I think it is telling that people joke about bickering like an old married couple, but many times that couple is portrayed as bickering constantly within a happy, loving marriage.  I'd love for DH and I to grow up to be Miracle Max and his witch, I mean wife.

 

Wendy

[creekland]

It's easy to joke about stereotypes whether they be marriages, homeschooling, kids, babies, seasons, nationalities, hair colors, etc, etc, etc.

 

Most of us understand stereotypes, so we can (generally) laugh at the jokes.

 

But all of us should realize that stereotypes are just that - stereotypes - not necessarily correct for real life situations.

 

I know our marriage doesn't fit the stereotype in pretty much any shape or fashion from chores done around the house to who stayed at home with the kids the most to falling "out" of love or having staying together be a chore or anything.  Fortunately, we both like it that way!  But we can still laugh at the typical jokes while being glad that they don't apply to us.

[Crimson Wife]

The TeA jokes remind me of that movie where the guy complains to the couples' therapist that they "never have [TeA]...only 3 times per week!" while the woman complains to the therapist that they "constantly have [TeA]...3 times per week!" The reasonable amount of TeA was perceived very differently depending on the individual.

[DianeW88]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all.  It's the best thing I've ever done.

[kitten18]

I might be way off base, but I don't think the jokes are about bad marriages - I think they are about good marriages and finding humor in common trials that couples overcome. It is like joking about the trials of raising a toddler or teen; I don't think anyone is saying that the child is bad or the parent is bad or the family is bad, just that there are parts of the gig that suck and everyone can relate to that. I think anyone who is married will admit that there are parts of their marriage that aren't all sunshine and roses, and some of those parts are common enough complaints that people start joking about them because lots of people will be able to relate. I don't think the jokers really want out of a bad marriage; I think they want to laugh about how ridiculous it is sometimes being incredibly in love with someone and completely exasperated with them at the same time.

 

I think it is telling that people joke about bickering like an old married couple, but many times that couple is portrayed as bickering constantly within a happy, loving marriage. I'd love for DH and I to grow up to be Miracle Max and his witch, I mean wife.

 

Wendy

I completely agree.

[JustEm]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all.  It's the best thing I've ever done.

Lucky you!  I've been married 7 years and its the best thing I've ever done but it is certainly hard a times!  We actually only have one thing that continues to pop up that makes it difficult and have yet found a solution for it that we are both happy with.  But overall its not hard. Life was much harder without having my best friend with me daily and there to support me at any moment

[FaithManor]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all.  It's the best thing I've ever done.

I feel the same way! Dh and I are remarkably compatible so it's just not that jard. However, I am finding that many people I know are not blessed with even a modicum of compatibility and marriage is a lot tougher sad to say.

[creekland]

I feel the same way! Dh and I are remarkably compatible so it's just not that jard. However, I am finding that many people I know are not blessed with even a modicum of compatibility and marriage is a lot tougher sad to say.

 

Same here with us - and with those we know, though some are similar to us.

 

When I look back to try to figure out how we did it (meaning choosing the right partner), all I can come up with is that we were pretty good friends first (albeit only for 6 months or so as close friends vs acquaintances) and that he has a heart of gold.  I simply got lucky.  Yes, I've changed some as "I" became "us," but he changed far more.  And his heart of gold is worth far more than that IMO.

[shawthorne44]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all.  It's the best thing I've ever done.

 

Yeah, me too.  I normally don't say that though because I don't want people who find it hard to feel bad.  We were actually graduated early from an in-depth premarital training that we were test subjects in because the initial test showed us to be so compatible.  

 

DH and I have both commented to each other that we are easier to get along since we got married.  

I don't find the marriage jokes to be funny.  I guess because I don't see the kernel of truth needed for good humor.  They don't make me upset though.  

[Mrs Mungo]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all. It's the best thing I've ever done.

I agree that marrying my dh is the best thing I have done. However, it has also been hard work at times. This will depend as much upon circumstances as it does compatibility or anything else.

[stripe]

Also some of what people might discuss as being hard about marriage, are things that are hard about life.

 

People also complain and joke about their mothers, their kids, and so forth. Being in a close relationship with someone else has its challenges. Most of us wouldn't dump our mothers if we could, even when they are really challenging. It helps blow off some steam, though, maybe.

[DesertBlossom]

I think marriage may get a bad rap because a healthy, happy requires 2 people to be selfless, caring and committed to each other. Yet more and more our society encourages selfishness and "looking out for number one" even at the expense of others.  It's hard to look at marriage in a positive light when all you're thinking is "what's in it for me?"

[suzybluecheese]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all.  It's the best thing I've ever done.

 

Good for you. Some marriages go through rough patches.

[FaithManor]

I agree that marrying my dh is the best thing I have done. However, it has also been hard work at times. This will depend as much upon circumstances as it does compatibility or anything else.

And you have had it harder than many. Military life is a killer. I am in awe of how well you handle it!

[Scarlett]

I never know if my marriage now seems so easy because of how bad the first one was or if it really is just easy. We have problems of course....especially of the blended family sort...but my actual relationship with dh is a dream.

[shanvan]

I think there are so many ways to be compatible/not compatible.  Dh and I are very compatible, in that we share values, beliefs, goals, but sometimes we aren't compatible as far as the ways we get to those goals.  We are definitely not compatible with communication styles b/c of our different upbringings, and that can be a challenge at times.  

[Scarlett]

Also some of what people might discuss as being hard about marriage, are things that are hard about life.

ITA. We have sickness, job loss, kid trouble, exes trouble....but at the end of the day dh and I get along great and we are so thankful to have each other.

 

It is a terrible feeling to sleep beside a man who you feel doesn't share your troubles or your joys.

[HRAAB]

Huh...I've been married for 26 years, and I've never found marriage to be hard at all.  It's the best thing I've ever done.

 

Twenty-nine years and counting.  Marrying my dh (and having children) is absolutely the best choice I could have made.  I love being married and love my dh, but there has also been some very rough times that have taken a lot of hard work - for both of us.  As we have grown older, marriage has become much easier.  Right now I can honestly say marriage isn't hard at all, but there have been times when that wasn't true.  I honestly can't recall an older married person telling me that their marriage never had a hard or difficult time so you and others who also have never had hard times in their marriages are very, very fortunate and lucky.  Marriage and parenting have been the hardest and most rewarding tasks I've ever had.

 

I really don't like the negative jokes about marriage (or parenting), but I tend to view that more as a part of human nature - making jokes about spouses, children, family, whatever.  They just aren't something I appreciate.

[G5052]

I agree that marrying my dh is the best thing I have done. However, it has also been hard work at times. This will depend as much upon circumstances as it does compatibility or anything else.

 

You can marry "well" -- someone who is kind, hard-working, and respectful with the same basic values you have.  

 

But health, financial problems, and external circumstances try the best of us.  Years of that can derail what seemed like a solid marriage when times weren't as tough. At least that's what I've seen both in my house and with close friends.  In those cases both partners have to work really hard to keep it together.  

[fraidycat]

And you have had it harder than many. Military life is a killer. I am in awe of how well you handle it!

This. Being married to DH is not hard. Being married to a military member - not easy. He's worth it, though.

[Guest]

I think marriage was easier when people died earlier.

[Word Nerd]

Maybe this should be a spin-off thread, but I don't think marriage is that hard. It's not all sunshine and lollipops, but it isn't working in a coal mine either.

[Guest]

It doesn't have a bad rap in my home, and it is something I want very much for my kids even though it didn't happen for me.

 

I understand that my friends who have been married for 25-30 years deserve just as much admiration and respect as friends who have done different difficult things in their lives, like earning PhDs or having successful careers in the music industry.

 

I also understand that I would be shamed and belittled if I was too honest about how sad it makes me that it never happened to me and now it's too late to even pretend that it isn't too late.

 

#entitledwhitegirlproblems

[Guest inoubliable]

Because some of them suck? 
50% of marriages in this country crash and burn within 7 years. 
Marriage is a lot of hard work. Not everyone is prepared for that, or willing to put that in. 

[*Lulu*]

Obviously anyone in a good marriage is going to say it isn't that much work.

 

Not everyone is in a good marriage.

I am in a very good-how did I get this fortunate-my best friend in the world is my husband-marriage.

 

It absolutely is work.

 

Not always, and not drudgery, but it isn't all unicorns shooting rainbows out their nether regions either.

 

Although I do agree with pp that an overwhelming amount of the stuff that has been hard is just life stuff. It would have been hard married or single and, with a few notable exceptions, most of those hard days were made easier by having someone to lean into.

[HRAAB]

Obviously anyone in a good marriage is going to say it isn't that much work.

 

Not everyone is in a good marriage.

 

Or that it took a hell of a lot of hard work to make it good.  Then sometimes, all the hard work in the world won't make it good.  So many factors enter into it.

[Impish]

I think there's a percentage of the population that would rather blame the institution of marriage itself than look at their own responsibility in it.

[Another Lynn]

I think marriage was easier when people died earlier.

 

:lol:   In a thread about people making jokes about marriage, that's funny!

[HS Mom in NC]

The Past

 

It gets a bad rap because some of us have lived through all the wreckage around us. My situation isn't all that rare.

 

My Baby Boomer parents (each the other's first spouse) separated when I was 7 days old and my biological brother was 11 months old.  They divorced by my 1st birthday because of his drinking and adultery. My father was divorced a total of 3 times by my 16th birthday. Both of his other wives were divorced-one twice.

 

My maternal grandmother's (a WWII bride in her 20s) had parents who were divorced because of his adultery. 

 

My father's Baby Boomer parents were divorced from each other.  His mother went on to get divorced at total of 3 times.

 

My step-dad's first wife gave birth to 2 children that could not have been his (no pregnancy goes 11 or 12 months) and another that was questionable. That daughter has been divorced twice and widowed once.  She's 43. 

 

My older step-brothers are both married to divorced women.

 

Of the kids that I grew up with in my neighborhood (11 total) all but 3 are divorced from their first spouses.  The 1  had a child outside of marriage before he got married to his current wife-same category as divorced if you ask me.

 

The Present

 

As for me, you can read my post on another thread below describing my situation and the huge challenges I deal with every day.  Yeah, your marriage may not be so hard. Enjoy that.  I really do hope it continues that way for all of you who have it so easy but don't assume it will.  You may have to make serious adjustments later to stay afloat.  I wish you all the wisdom and grace you need if it happens.

 

From a criticism about courtship thread:

 

"Thanks for pointing this out.  It needs to be said a lot more frequently in religious circles.

 

I'm one of those people. Even with both sharing the same faith there are compatibility issues that have to be addressed. Let's remember that we have Christian denominations for a reason-different people will have different interpretations of what the Bible teaches and  who or what is a final authority on religious/moral matters, etc.  Add in those issues to the endless financial, lifestyle and  childbearing choices that abound, and it's foolish not to choose a spouse based on compatibility beyond religion.

 

Once one spouse leaves the faith then those compatibility issues matter even more if the one hasn't changed so much that those have gone out the window too-they often will.  The naivete among many believers when it comes to compatibility issues is pretty surprising. Both being believers is not enough and is no guarantee things will stay that way.  

 

Most churches do a terrible job supporting people in these type of situations because they aren't even aware of that it's a possibility.  It's like Hebrews Chapter 6 isn't even in their Bibles or if it is, they just skip over it because it's too messy or scary to think about. When you hear sermons about marriage, how many of them include believers married to each other or two unbelievers who married then one converted to Christianity?  All by my count.  I've never heard a sermon about two believers marrying and one leaving the faith but they stay together and now have to make decisions based on completely different worldviews and morals.   It's always been an unspoken assumption that the unbelieving spouse would leave and the believing spouse would not stop him/her. Not every unbelieving spouse chooses to leave.  Inexperienced leadership has left this conspicuous void for a long time and it's time they woke up, faced reality and addressed it. Same with pre-marriage counselors. "What are you planning to do if your soon to be spouse walks away from the faith in the future?" I've never heard of one who asks these kinds of questions. It's time they started."

[Mrs Mungo]

Maybe this should be a spin-off thread, but I don't think marriage is that hard. It's not all sunshine and lollipops, but it isn't working in a coal mine either.

 

 

Maybe a better word would be effort? We have been through some exceedingly hard stuff-serious illnesses and deaths of close family members, the chronic illness of a child, frequent moves (our eldest is 18 and has lived in 9 homes-one of those for 5 years), deployments and more. Other people have been through stuff that is more difficult-the death of a child, their own chronic illnesses, dependent parents and more. There are times that it takes a tremendous effort to maintain good communication, to make sure we are both good and that we are good together. It isn't a coal mine, but it isn't always easy either. And the longer you have been doing it, the greater the chances you have been through a terribly difficult time in your lives.

 

 

I am in a very good-how did I get this fortunate-my best friend in the world is my husband-marriage.

It absolutely is work.

Not always, and not drudgery, but it isn't all unicorns shooting rainbows out their nether regions either.

Although I do agree with pp that an overwhelming amount of the stuff that has been hard is just life stuff. It would have been hard married or single and, with a few notable exceptions, most of those hard days were made easier by having someone to lean into.

Agreed. Even when that person to lean into isn't even physically present.

[Jennifer3141]

Marriage gets a bad rap because we live in a patriarchal society and marriage is frequently a better deal for men than women.

[Mrs Mungo]

Of the kids that I grew up with in my neighborhood (11 total) all but 3 are divorced from their first spouses.

I wonder how much this has to do with particular micro-societies? The people I was friends with in high school and college (I don't really still know anyone from my neighborhood still) are *all* still married to their first spouses (many have been married more than 20 years)-some had divorced parents, some had parents who are still married or remained married until the death of the first spouse. We do have tons of friends who divorced, but our circle is extremely wide. I just wonder why.

 

Yeah, your marriage may not be so hard. Enjoy that. I really do hope it continues that way for all of you who have it so easy but don't assume it will. You may have to make serious adjustments later to stay afloat. I wish you all the wisdom and grace you need if it happens.

Agreed.

[Word Nerd]

To clarify, I didn't mean that at all in a flippant or sanctimonious way, and of course I can only speak for my own marriage. We've had a lot of tough life circumstances to deal with, and some of the hardest things I've been through in my life have happened since I've been married. I agree that marriage takes effort and isn't easy. I just don't see my marriage itself as being especially hard. It makes the hard times less difficult.

[Mrs Mungo]

Marriage gets a bad rap because we live in a patriarchal society and marriage is frequently a better deal for men than women.

Do you see this changing on the future? If so, how?

 

What I see happening in professional circles is that regardless of sex, one partner tends to be the main "breadwinner" and the other serves in a support role. The support person is expected to give up their own career and move whenever necessary. Or their career is a second tier career. They keep the "home fires burning." Can this dichotomy be broken, even if/when it isn't an issue of patriarchy?

[umsami]

I'm thinking about the jokes about marriage, like how couples fight all the time or that sex is non-existent or that a good life is over once married. Historically, is marriage typically bad? Where did these thoughts come from?

 

Well historically…. divorce was difficult or sometimes impossible to get.  (Depends where one lived, laws, etc.)   So, you were stuck in a bad marriage.

 

Historically….and actually until quite recently….domestic violence was viewed as a private thing.  If you watch old movies or "I Love Lucy"….threats of socking one's wife are viewed as funny, not horrific.

 

Many people have unhappy marriages.  People these days aren't as likely to stay in an unhappy marriage, but still financial concerns and others can cause people to.

 

There are happy marriages, but I honestly think they are more rare than the unhappy ones for a wide variety of reasons.

[Rosie_0801]

Do you see this changing on the future? If so, how?

 

What I see happening in professional circles is that regardless of sex, one partner tends to be the main "breadwinner" and the other serves in a support role. The support person is expected to give up their own career and move whenever necessary. Or their career is a second tier career. They keep the "home fires burning." Can this dichotomy be broken, even if/when it isn't an issue of patriarchy?

 

During my musings, I've considered that unequal expectations is a huge problem.

 

Roughly speaking:

 

Good man= has a job more than some of the time, pays half the bills, doesn't hit his wife or kids, has a pleasant demeanour.

 

Good woman= has a job at pays half the bills, keeps her house clean, doesn't let herself become overweight, spends time with her kids, ensures they are clean and relatively well mannered, advocates for them, takes them to therapy whether they need any or not, treats her husband like a demigod no matter what he's like, volunteers for an important cause or institution, helps out her extended family has a pleasant and rarely harassed demeanour as though she could manage more responsibilities and still be taking adequate "me" time.

 

If I'm getting cynical in my old age, my old age has started early.

[Mrs Mungo]

Can someone explain how marriage is a better deal for men than women? I mean this seriously, I don't get it. Help?

 

I married an older, extremely well educated man. I was in college. I had debt, he owned a home. I stopped working for anything but the sheer pleasure of it, he holds multiple jobs.

 

In exchange for bearing children, being his companion, and managing the house I am taken care of completely. He has six dependents on his salary.

 

This seems like an utterly awesome deal for me. Why would it be better for him?

Because of what happens in marriages like yours (and mine, for the record) when decides he doesn't want you any more, when he decides to take on a younger model or start a new family or that he just wants to be free and unencumbered. At this point in our loves, we have seen this happen a LOT, to marriages that seemed strong and that were long lasting. She has to start over without a job history or current education. It can be a *very* hard road.

[Rosie_0801]

Can someone explain how marriage is a better deal for men than women? I mean this seriously, I don't get it. Help?

 

What am I missing?

 

In many cases women are responsible for running the household, raising the children, maintaining the marriage and probably holding down a job and paying up to half the bills as well.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

During my musings, I've considered that unequal expectations is a huge problem.

 

Roughly speaking:

 

Good man= has a job more than some of the time, pays half the bills, doesn't hit his wife or kids, has a pleasant demeanour.

 

Good woman= has a job at pays half the bills, keeps her house clean, doesn't let herself become overweight, spends time with her kids, ensures they are clean and relatively well mannered, advocates for them, takes them to therapy whether they need any or not, treats her husband like a demigod no matter what he's like, volunteers for an important cause or institution, helps out her extended family has a pleasant and rarely harassed demeanour as though she could manage more responsibilities and still be taking adequate "me" time.

 

If I'm getting cynical in my old age, my old age has started early.

My point was that I see similar set-ups for breadwinner/support person, even when the partners are both male or both female or the male and female have non-traditional roles. I have a male friend who I jokingly refer to as my Air Force wife friend, Bill. She deploys. He has an at-home job. He coaches little league. He cooks. But, I agree that there are some differences in expectation levels.

[umsami]

Because of what happens in marriages like yours (and mine, for the record) when decides he doesn't want you any more, when he decides to take on a younger model or start a new family or that he just wants to be free and unencumbered. At this point in our loves, we have seen this happen a LOT, to marriages that seemed strong and that were long lasting. She has to start over without a job history or current education. It can be a *very* hard road.

 

Yes, and the expectation of alimony…of all that time being a stay at home Mom, caring for the home, helping him in his career…has changed.  These days, women are lucky if they get rehabilitative alimony.  Where I live, the laws changed recently so that there is a "time sharing" arrangements with child custody….and my friend who is a lawyer says that part of the reason the many male legislators pushed for that is it basically does away with child support payments.

 

So…for the past 5, 10, 15 years, the wife has put her career on hold….and has helped her hubby succeed in his.  Then he finds a younger model, divorces her…. she goes into poverty or near poverty….sees her kids half the time…and gets to watch trophy wife enjoy the fruits of her husband's successful career, which she helped create.

 

When I worked full-time in corporate America, many of us joked that we wish we had a wife at home when we'd see what the exec with Stay at Home Spouses experienced.  It makes life a lot easier for them.