What if there *isnt* a cure?

[Joanne]

That's wonderful.

 

But be cautious of selection bias. You are anecdotally selecting from a group of people you know. You have a clear bias toward a simple model in which calories in + exercise = healthy weight for all people, so those who are not what you consider to be a healthy weight must therefore not be following the moderate diet and exercise model that works for you.

 

I am within the normal range for weight for my height. When I started taking thyroid meds, I lost 15 pounds in 6 weeks with absolutely no effort on my part. None.  I was a stick. Diet and exercise stayed the same. Boy, was that an eye-opener for me when it came to recognizing the factors that impact weight loss. And people kept congratulating me, as though I'd done something praiseworthy. It was weird.

 

I have a dear friend who watches every bite. She exercises regularly. She cannot lose weight. If we went by the simple diet + exercise = healthy weight, she'd be much thinner than I. She's not, and it's frustrating for her. She works really hard at it, with minimal results. Her inner response to "I'm sure it occurred to you that perhaps your food intake was not quite in balance with your activity level?" would probably be along the lines of "Are you f---ing kidding me? I count every. single. calorie. and exercise vigorously, so you and your condescension can go jump in a lake."

 

I wish the people for whom it IS that simple could recognize that it ISN'T that simple for everyone instead of saying "Well, if you'd just do xyz...."

 

Cat

 

 

Bold = me, on many attempts lasting months.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

My mom reminded me today of a dear friend she has known for over 3 decades.  My mom's friend calls herself "fit but fat".  She runs marathons, walks on the treadmill, works out at the gym, etc. and has for decades.  She definitely eats what would be considered a healthy diet.  She could bench press me if she needed to.   She is definitely much stronger than I am, and certainly much healthier (although my health issues are primary genetic so that is really neither here nor there).  We are about the same height but she weighs quite a bit more.  She would still be considered "fat".  She has been a larger woman all of her life.  The assumption that she must be sitting around all day or just munching her way through the refrigerator really is hurtful and insulting.  Are there many people in our society who lead very sedentary lives and eat poorly?  Absolutely.  Many times many.  But not everyone falls into that category.

[LibraryLover]

There's this, too.

 

The Obesity Paradox

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/diet-fitness/weight-loss/obesity-paradox.htm

[Susan in TN]

I'm going to try the bacon diet. You with me, Sparkles? :D

[ktgrok]

Make it a BLT.  It works. That's what I lived on at the end of college. Never hungry, lost about twenty pounds in two months.

 

30 minutes later I'd want another one. And another one. You get the idea. For a person that prefers fat/salt that's like saying "eat only snicker's bars"

[Annie Laurie]

 

I have a dear friend who watches every bite. She exercises regularly. She cannot lose weight. If we went by the simple diet + exercise = healthy weight, she'd be much thinner than I. She's not, and it's frustrating for her. She works really hard at it, with minimal results. Her inner response to "I'm sure it occurred to you that perhaps your food intake was not quite in balance with your activity level?" would probably be along the lines of "Are you f---ing kidding me? I count every. single. calorie. and exercise vigorously, so you and your condescension can go jump in a lake."

 

 

 

Yes. My best friend in college was overweight but she didn't eat much at all. I was a skinny size 0 and would get asked if I ever ate (skinny shaming stinks too, but is a subject for another thread), and I ate constantly. We'd go somewhere to eat and she'd have a salad and some lean protein and I'd have like 6 slices of pizza. Yet, she couldn't lose the weight and I couldn't gain.

[Wheres Toto]

 

 

Some countries/cultures do this a lot better than North America, where physical activity is the norm and they are used to eating wonderful tasting, healthy food. When you are brought up on good food, junk food is simply disgusting to eat in large quantities.

 

Another vote for not true!  I grew up eating extremely healthy.  No preservatives, no artificial colors/flavors, low sugar, low fat, whole foods, lots of fruits and vegetables.  My mother was trying to help my brothers ADHD through diet and I was along for the ride.   As soon as I was on my own - it broke loose.  My favorite cereals are Lucky Charms and Fruity Pebbles, which I never had either until I was in my 20s.

 

Growing up with very limited treats leaves you with the feeling that you can't say no because you never know when you're going to have another chance to have some.

[MrsMommy]

According to my clinical research, mostly watching Mad Men, a steady stream of cigarettes & amphetamines can help deter obesity.  Drinking your calories in the form of gin and tonic probably means those donuts in the morning look pretty sickening, too.

 

I think I've found my new diet! I'll be thin, and if I do accidentally overeat, the hangover vomiting and drugs will probably take care of it. I think that might actually be classified as an eating disorder, but if it worked in the 60s, it must be ideal, right?

[Wheres Toto]

I can exercise heavily for an hour a day, eat a low calorie/whole foods healthy diet and weigh between 190 and 200 pounds.  I can sit on my butt all day long, eat ice cream and cookies every night, live on pasta and bread and weight between 190 and 200 pounds.  This has been my reality for about 5 years.

 

I was able to lose quite a bit of weight years ago.  I was heavy after the birth of my oldest and just couldn't get the weight off.  While I was in school I took a job doing stock work at Sam's Club.  I spent literally 40 hours a week of non-stop activity - weight lifting, running around, bending/stretching, moving for 8 hours a day/5 days a week.  In addition, I worked a 3am to 11am shift so I was eating very light (not too hungry for "lunch" at 6am), and spending hours in a classroom the two days I didn't work, so eating very little.   I lost about 40 pounds - doing 40 hours a week of exercise and eating a very light diet.   This is not something I could do while working in an office 40 hours a week, and wanting to spend some actual time with my children.  Or even when I was home with the kids all day - I didn't have 8 hours a day to spend exercising.  It definitely was not a healthy life-style or sustainable for any length of time.

 

I gained the weight back with the next two pregnancies and nothing I do now seems to affect it.  I'm not sure the 40 hours a week/barely eating plan would work at this point.

 

ETA:  AT this point I'm trying to eat better and get sufficient exercise for health reasons, even if it doesn't do anything about the weight.

[busymama7]

I hate these threads. It's so depressing. I'm glad some people have found success with lots of excercise but I just don't have that kind of time or desire. Two hours a day?!?! Yuck. I can't think of a worse way to spend a good chunk of my day. I am busy raising a large family and have been pregnant or nursing or both for 18 years. (So not able to get up super early) There is no way to fit that kind of time into my day. Sigh.

[ktgrok]

Another vote for not true!  I grew up eating extremely healthy.  No preservatives, no artificial colors/flavors, low sugar, low fat, whole foods, lots of fruits and vegetables.  My mother was trying to help my brothers ADHD through diet and I was along for the ride.   As soon as I was on my own - it broke loose.  My favorite cereals are Lucky Charms and Fruity Pebbles, which I never had either until I was in my 20s.

 

Growing up with very limited treats leaves you with the feeling that you can't say no because you never know when you're going to have another chance to have some.

 

Yup. We didn't have sweets, didn't have sugar sweetened cereal, etc. I went to college and my dessert every night was cocopuffs. I'd never had chocolate cereal before! Loved it. 

[ktgrok]

To add, my husband grew up in Germany.  They didn't eat a lot of junk food.  They also walked a lot...A LOT.

His whole family is overweight.  Every.single. one of them.

 

My dad's side of the family has weight issues, including me, and we all are very German/eastern European. I often like to blame my fat on being a stocky German woman :)

 

(when my husband was in Germany on business he said everyone looked like me, lol)

[wintermom]

That's wonderful.

 

But be cautious of selection bias. You are anecdotally selecting from a group of people you know. You have a clear bias toward a simple model in which calories in + exercise = healthy weight for all people, so those who are not what you consider to be a healthy weight must therefore not be following the moderate diet and exercise model that works for you.

 

 

 

Every single poster here is stating anecdotal information. Mine just happens to be different than many. I live in Canada, where there are less obese people than in the US relative to our population. I guess we must be hibernating or something so as to avoid the new trends in evolution. 

 

[ktgrok]

Here is my other question. For those that DO eat more than they should - WHY? 

 

Why does a naturally thin person eat two slices of pizza and feel full, to the point they do not WANT another slice, and yet someone else will eat two slices, maybe even feel full, but still want more pizza? Yes, they can use self control and not eat it, but they want it. They are having to deny themselves. The naturally thin person doesn't have to practice self denial, they just don't want another piece. When science truly addresses THAT issue, I'll be happy. 

[eternalsummer]

Evolutionarily, you'd think our bodies adapted to more or less the kind of lifestyle we had for millennia, right?  Surely that lifestyle involved more than 2 hours a day, on average, of exercise (walking around, cleaning, building, gardening/planting/harvesting, searching for tubers, running from bears, travelling to the next area with newly available foods, etc.)  Probably it also involved a lot less sugar and a lot fewer calories.  

 

So to me, it makes sense that if you wanted to be in tune with what your body is adapted to do, you'd eat less and exercise more.

 

I'm sure there are variants in this, both individually and as groups - the same way there are people who are really good at jumping and people who are really good at math, for instance.  All that means in the rest of society is that, except for really exceptional cases where people who are very disabled must be cared for by their families their whole lives, people with this or that impediment must find a way to adapt, or overcome it, in order to be productive and self-supporting.

 

So Polynesians are genetically more predisposed to diabetes - they must be more careful than the non-predisposed at watching weight and sugar intake, etc.  

[mommymilkies]

Here is my other question. For those that DO eat more than they should - WHY? 

 

Why does a naturally thin person eat two slices of pizza and feel full, to the point they do not WANT another slice, and yet someone else will eat two slices, maybe even feel full, but still want more pizza? Yes, they can use self control and not eat it, but they want it. They are having to deny themselves. The naturally thin person doesn't have to practice self denial, they just don't want another piece. When science truly addresses THAT issue, I'll be happy. 

Seriously.  Funnily enough, I was going through an old day journal from 2009 for homeschooling tips.  I tracked my eating at least once a week because I was trying to GAIN weight.  Instead-I lost weight until I got pg.  I was 115 lbs. size 4-5 and 5'5".  I ate in one day: 2 blueberry pancakes with syrup, 1 cup milk, 1.5 Italian Beef hoagie sandwiches with cheese, a handful of chips, cantaloupe and watermelon (unspecified amount), a piece of cake, strawberries, a scoop of vanilla ice cream, grilled pineapple, a Haagen Dazs ice cream bar, 1.5 beef shish kabobs, mac n cheese (unspecified but I never skimp here), green beans, 3 deviled eggs, a boca chick'n sandwich, and grapes.  Oh, and I didn't exercise.  I did yoga once a week or less.  Walked with the kids ~1.5 miles a few times a week.  That's it. 

 

And I don't eat until I'm uncomfortably full.  When I'm healthy and not sick, I eat a LOT.  Now, I was losing weight eating this way.  Now, I typed up what I ate the other day a couple pages back.  I eat at least less than 1/5 of that amount and I have no appetite. I weigh quite a bit more than before.  What gives?  Do you know what I'd do for a Klondike Bar right now?  :lol:

[Mom-ninja.]

Metabolism slows down as we age. So what you could eat 5 years ago will affect you differently now. Also, hormones are changing all the time and hormones play a huge role in weight gain or loss. That's one reason why alcohol is a no-no if one is trying to lose weight. It's not just the calories in the alcohol, but how alcohol can cause more estrogen in the body (yes, in males too) and estrogen makes the body store fat.

 

People downplay or don't think about hormones and weight. All hormones...not just estrogen. That was just an example. Heck, even the temperature of the environment can play a role because in cold weather our body want to store more fat and we have increased appetites.

 

As others have posted it is possible to be heavier and yet be totally fit with strong muscles, bones, heart, lungs, etc. just as it's possible to be thin and be unfit and have weak muscles, bones, and unconditioned cardiovascular system.

 

 

 

My dad's side of the family has weight issues, including me, and we all are very German/eastern European. I often like to blame my fat on being a stocky German woman :)

 

(when my husband was in Germany on business he said everyone looked like me, lol)

And then there's my German family that are all really thin. All my relatives (including myself) have at points been told we are underweight. There is not a one of us that weighs over 130 lbs and that includes my male relatives. However, my American side, they are all overweight. 

[Soror]

Fwiw I once found a calculator online that had you put in parental size and a few other background questions and kid size and it predicted the likelihood your child would grow up to be overweight. My children all had far below 1% chance of being overweight. I don't know what all studies and info they based this on but it is interesting nonetheless. I think there are some genetic factors at play, as well as environmental. My maternal grandmother was towards underweight, by mother was small and I've always been small except when my hormones/thyroid have been out of whack and even then I've never made it to obese, just overweight. My mom's sister and all her kids have always been overweight. 

 

I think we are so far from even understanding half of what plays into weight, fat storage and appetite. Even people with the same condition can be effected differently. I have a friend who is also hypothyroid and she has never put on any weight and if anything tends towards underweight. Gluten causes weight gain for me (along with many other problems) but for some with Celiac's or gluten intolerance it leads to weight loss.

 

I think our understanding about the connection to the gut and immune system are in its infancy. As it is we are all just doing the best we can in our own circumstances and information. I know I am privileged to have access to good food and the time and knowledge to prepare it. I think we need to as well recognize that healthy encompasses a lot larger range than our current culture pushes, smaller is not always better and we need to stop acting like it is. 

[flyingiguana]

I can exercise heavily for an hour a day, eat a low calorie/whole foods healthy diet and weigh between 190 and 200 pounds.  I can sit on my butt all day long, eat ice cream and cookies every night, live on pasta and bread and weight between 190 and 200 pounds.  This has been my reality for about 5 years.

 

 

Yep, that's the paradox that must have sparked this thread.

 

But there are still plenty of people who see that evidence and refuse to accept that it's a valid data point.  (Even researchers in the area)

 

I'm seeing lots of cherry picking going on with the anecdotal data.  See a data point that doesn't fit the calories in-calories out paradigm?  Deal with it by throwing out the data point, or calling the data point a liar.

 

At this point, the best we can do is eat the vegetables, avoid the bad stuff, and exercise.  And wait for science to catch up to the observational data.

 

My sister thinks I'm fat and has built up an entire edifice around that -- that I'm lazy and crabby and that I make her life miserable.  She may be thinner, but she's the one troubled by COPD and a host of other health problems that she won't even tell me about.  Probably out of embarrassment. (Not least of which is her crabby miserablesness.) And she eats pretty badly -- although she claims to eat well. 

 

If we want to talk anecdotes, looks to me like a little extra weight is a good thing.  (Although a fair amount of the "extra" weight I have that my sister does not have is probably muscle.)

 

Can I turn this into a rant about my smug, unhealthy sister?  Or does that not really belong on this board?

[Rebel]

I think for myself anyway, that BMI is crap. According to the BMI charts, I am overweight. According to body fat percentage charts, I am in the low end of ideal and almost into the lean category.  I recently uploaded the attached pic to facebook to show a new swim suit that I love. While I have body image issues like most everybody else, I do not think I look "overweight" in the pic.

 

[Moxie]

I think for myself anyway, that BMI is crap. According to the BMI charts, I am overweight. According to body fat percentage charts, I am in the low end of ideal and almost into the lean category.  I recently uploaded the attached pic to facebook to show a new swim suit that I love. While I have body image issues like most everybody else, I do not think I look "overweight" in the pic.

 

Me in bikini.jpg

 

You look great!  I kind of dislike you now.  Sorry!

 

I agree that the BMI charts are ridiculous.  Scales aren't a great option because muscle weighs more than fat.  I bought a set of fat calipers and they are VERY hard to use.  I'm thinking about getting one of those hand held electronic fat readers because I DO want some way (besides my clothes) to measure fat lost/gained.

 

[aggie96]

I can exercise heavily for an hour a day, eat a low calorie/whole foods healthy diet and weigh between 190 and 200 pounds.  I can sit on my butt all day long, eat ice cream and cookies every night, live on pasta and bread and weight between 190 and 200 pounds.  This has been my reality for about 5 years.

 

I was able to lose quite a bit of weight years ago.  I was heavy after the birth of my oldest and just couldn't get the weight off.  While I was in school I took a job doing stock work at Sam's Club.  I spent literally 40 hours a week of non-stop activity - weight lifting, running around, bending/stretching, moving for 8 hours a day/5 days a week.  In addition, I worked a 3am to 11am shift so I was eating very light (not too hungry for "lunch" at 6am), and spending hours in a classroom the two days I didn't work, so eating very little.   I lost about 40 pounds - doing 40 hours a week of exercise and eating a very light diet.   This is not something I could do while working in an office 40 hours a week, and wanting to spend some actual time with my children.  Or even when I was home with the kids all day - I didn't have 8 hours a day to spend exercising.  It definitely was not a healthy life-style or sustainable for any length of time.

 

I gained the weight back with the next two pregnancies and nothing I do now seems to affect it.  I'm not sure the 40 hours a week/barely eating plan would work at this point.

 

ETA:  AT this point I'm trying to eat better and get sufficient exercise for health reasons, even if it doesn't do anything about the weight.

 

 

This is me exactly.  Exactly.  And it pisses me off.  I want my old body, energy, hair, skin, sleep, etc back.

[myfunnybunch]

Every single poster here is stating anecdotal information. Mine just happens to be different than many. I live in Canada, where there are less obese people than in the US relative to our population. I guess we must be hibernating or something so as to avoid the new trends in evolution. 

 

 

Of course we are.

 

I meant it when I said that's wonderful that it works for you. However, there is a difference between sharing one's experiences, and generalizing one's experiences to, "This is my experience; therefore, it should be this simple for everyone." Where what you're saying breaks down is not in that it's anecdotal, but when you take what works for you and generalize it to others, especially when you use that generalization to implicitly pat yourself on the back for not being overweight and to make assumptions about the diet and exercise habits of individuals who are.

 

No one is disputing that there's a correlation between diet and exercise, and weight. What both anecdotal and scientific evidence shows is that it's not that simple for everyone.

 

Cat

[mommymilkies]

 

 

People downplay or don't think about hormones and weight. All hormones...not just estrogen. That was just an example. Heck, even the temperature of the environment can play a role because in cold weather our body want to store more fat and we have increased appetites.

 

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140122133824.htm

 

I find that fascinating. 

I think for myself anyway, that BMI is crap. According to the BMI charts, I am overweight. According to body fat percentage charts, I am in the low end of ideal and almost into the lean category.  I recently uploaded the attached pic to facebook to show a new swim suit that I love. While I have body image issues like most everybody else, I do not think I look "overweight" in the pic.

 

Me in bikini.jpg

You're gorgeous!  And yes, the standardization also has me all wonky.  

[Soror]

REbel- I think you look great as well, screw the stupid charts, you are not overweight.

[albeto.]

 That's one reason why alcohol is a no-no if one is trying to lose weight. It's not just the calories in the alcohol, but how alcohol can cause more estrogen in the body (yes, in males too) and estrogen makes the body store fat.

 

 I'll comfort myself with this healthy tip every time I can't get the cork off my dinner, and have to find something solid to eat instead. 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[Joyofsixreboot]

It really is about each person's body, what they can live with and what is doable. I break most of the rules but for ME it works. Ancestery, genetics, life style, personal preferences, habits, etc. are like a giant web and unraveling it is not easy. For me carbs are a must. All that lean protein and good fat makes me feel horrible. For others it's the only thing that makes them feel well. Then let's lump in all the societal expectations....I'm not in favor of going back to food scarcity and hunger but it did remove all the guesswork from weight control.

[shukriyya]

Seriously.  Funnily enough, I was going through an old day journal from 2009 for homeschooling tips.  I tracked my eating at least once a week because I was trying to GAIN weight.  Instead-I lost weight until I got pg.  I was 115 lbs. size 4-5 and 5'5".

 

 

I'm intrigued and kind of curious about why you were keen to gain weight at these numbers. From the rest of your post it sounds like you were eating enough, getting in some moderate exercise and had good energy for your kids and your life though maybe there were other factors you didn't mention? That weight is on the lighter side of normal for your height in terms of BMI. Did you feel uncomfortable at that weight or were you going by charts that said you should weigh more or were there medical issues?

[Katy]

I did some more research and read about estrogen dominance and it explains a lot.

 

 

 

 

In another thread I posted about how I'd rendered some beef tallow and made fries with it.  They were strangely filling.  So much so that I did some research and stumbled upon a website that advocated eating more saturated fat (Maria Emmerich's site).  It said that estrogen dominance comes from a fat imbalance - mainly too much vegetable oils and not enough saturated fat!   She went into this long reasoning about the pathway from saturated fat to progesterone, and how obesity made it worse because fat itself produces one of the three sorts of estrogen. I don't know if it's true (there weren't exactly footnotes), but I found it interesting.

[VeganCupcake]

You look great!  I kind of dislike you now.  Sorry!

 

I agree that the BMI charts are ridiculous.  Scales aren't a great option because muscle weighs more than fat.  I bought a set of fat calipers and they are VERY hard to use.  I'm thinking about getting one of those hand held electronic fat readers because I DO want some way (besides my clothes) to measure fat lost/gained.

 

 

Those hand-held things, as well as the scale-type body fat monitors, can be very inaccurate. Do you have someone helping you with the calipers? Another option is a tape measure and just logging measurements of several points on the body. 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[mommymilkies]

I'm intrigued and kind of curious about why you were keen to gain weight at these numbers. From the rest of your post it sounds like you were eating enough, getting in some moderate exercise and had good energy for your kids and your life though maybe there were other factors you didn't mention? That weight is on the lighter side of normal for your height in terms of BMI. Did you feel uncomfortable at that weight or were you going by charts that said you should weigh more or were there medical issues?

I was skin and bones.  My hip bones poked out, I was falling out of clothes.  My ribs were poking out and I felt weak. I had rude comments made to me about my weight and appearance, too. I was (barely) nursing a toddler, so I had to eat a little extra anyway (parallel-my toddler is just weaning), but it was hard for me to keep my weight up to that.  When pg with my son and breastfeeding, I was wearing size 0 pants at 5 months along.  For some reason my body tends to jump to extremes-like when my thyroid crashed after that pregnancy.

 

With my small pear body frame 120-125 with muscle works best for me so I don't look emaciated or pregnant. 

[shukriyya]

I was skin and bones.  My hip bones poked out, I was falling out of clothes.  My ribs were poking out and I felt weak. I had rude comments made to me about my weight and appearance, too. I was (barely) nursing a toddler, so I had to eat a little extra anyway (parallel-my toddler is just weaning), but it was hard for me to keep my weight up to that.  When pg with my son and breastfeeding, I was wearing size 0 pants at 5 months along.  For some reason my body tends to jump to extremes-like when my thyroid crashed after that pregnancy.

 

With my small pear body frame 120-125 with muscle works best for me so I don't look emaciated or pregnant. 

 

Okay, thanks for clarifying. It sounds like you've got a pretty good sense of what's a healthy body. I know lots of women who would be delighted with hip and rib bones poking out--most of our culture??!! It's refreshing to hear your balanced perspective on your body and that strength is what's important to you.

 

I was out the other day and interacted with a woman who, by our cultural standards, would be considered fairly large yet she carried herself beautifully and with confidence. I found her ample, strong body compelling because what she was saying with her intentional attention to her appearance was, 'I take up space in a way that is beautiful and utterly valid.'

[mommymilkies]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. It sounds like you've got a pretty good sense of what's a healthy body. I know lots of women who would be delighted with hip and rib bones poking out--most of our culture??!! It's refreshing to hear your balanced perspective on your body and that strength is what's important to you.

 

I was out the other day and interacted with a woman who, by our cultural standards, would be considered fairly large yet she carried herself beautifully and with confidence. I found her ample, strong body compelling because what she was saying with her intentional attention to her appearance was, 'I take up space in a way that is beautiful and utterly valid.'

I have a small frame, so my collarbone and wrist bones are always poky, but there's a difference between naturally thin and malnourished.  I like food, so who was I to complain about more ice cream? ;)  But there are definitely cons to being too thin, as well.  Yes, our society does favor it, though.  Like the photoshop snaffus-it's clear that even the thinnest models don't fit our ridiculous beauty standards.  I'd rather weigh more and have muscle than weigh less and be frail. 

[Arcadia]

I had consistently lose weight on antibiotics. They are appetite killers for me.

 

But that takes us back to the idea of genetically determined set points, which is the only reason I came into the conversation: in China it has been change in circumstance that has led to altered body size.

 

L

Circumstances does play a part. I have maternal male cousins and my brother that are overweight whenever they are not working but goes back to normal range when they work at desk bound jobs. So when they retire, they are likely to be overweight again. In a sense they seems to have an upper and lower limit for their weight,

 

My mum is not use to the food and weather here. When she is here, her weight drops to 46kg which is underweight. When she goes back home, she regains to a normal weight of 56kg. So a 10kg difference.

 

When I cook, I lose more weight because I get too tired to eat. If I am not cooking while on vacation, I eat a lot more and gain a few pounds.

[Soror]

Yep, fat creates more estrogen. I think in my case, I was predisposed to insulin resistance and my diet growing up was not that great, which led to developing the insulin resistance, which led to weight gain, which led to estrogen dominance, which led to PCOS (which also runs in my family).

 

It's weird because my weight gain, insulin resistance and PCOS started when I was in the Army. So I was being exercised like a fiend and I *still* gained weight and developed insulin resistance.

 

 

It is hard to figure out what comes first though. The dr. mentioned to me about how if I lose some weight then the estrogen will go down but the hormones and thyroid wonked before I gained weight. My estrogen and testosterone are both high right now and I'm having a bit of insulin issues myself, although no official PCOS diagnosis. I finally started losing again on the auto-immune diet when regular low-carb diets were not working and making me feel like crap. Right now I probably eat around 100 g carbs total per day and that feels pretty good. Starting the thyroid hormones helped even more. I've lost 10 of the 20 lbs I put on and am feeling better, not up for working out yet though. I had horrible cravings at first but now I'm not really having any. I think for some a bit of moderation works well but for others they need to go cold turkey, at least at first to break the cycle. I'm not planning on any re-introductions until I do my next lab tests but that is 2 more months, we'll see if I can make it. 

[Joyofsixreboot]

[quote name="shukriyya" post="5722705" timestamp="

 

I was out the other day and interacted with a woman who, by our cultural standards, would be considered fairly large yet she carried herself beautifully and with confidence. I found her ample, strong body compelling because what she was saying with her intentional attention to her appearance was, 'I take up space in a way that is beautiful and utterly valid.'

 

Anecdotally, when I finally decided to come out of a 18 year slump and start caring for my appearance and health my weight came off better. I've wondered was I depressed because I was heavy or heavy because I was depressed, or depressed because my hormones were out of whack or or....so many variables and inter plays.

[Mom-ninja.]

Mommymilkies, thanks for the link. Interesting. Although I know I find myself eating more when I'm cold but maybe the shivering burns those extra calories.  :lol:

[mommymilkies]

Mommymilkies, thanks for the link. Interesting. Although I know I find myself eating more when I'm cold but maybe the shivering burns those extra calories.  :lol:

I can't stand eating when it's hot.  But, the body response makes sense, I guess.

[myfunnybunch]

When I was serious low carbing, I would still drink low carb beer and had no trouble losing weight steadily. 

 

I never counted calories, just carbs.

 

I'm not sure I believe this. 

 

I know it's anecdotal, but I have never seen this information anywhere. 

 

Estrogen and alcohol:

I haven't read any studies of this, and don't have time to look them up, but spent some time as an after care counselor for women in drug and alcohol rehab, and learned a little about alcohol and hormones.

In a nutshell.....Our liver processes hormones and toxins.

Our liver identifies and processes alcohol as a toxin first, before hormones.

 

A healthy liver should be able to handle both moderate occasional alcohol consumption and hormones just fine, which is why alcohol consumption may not impact weight loss in some people. But it seems logical that if our liver is processing the alcohol, it takes longer to get to the hormones, including estrogen. Like most weight loss strategies, limiting alcohol in order to limit estrogen hanging around in the body probably impacts some people more than others, possibly people with livers already strained by processing processed foods and other environmental toxins.

 

Mostly speculation on my part based on what I know. I did google "alcohol estrogen liver" and came up with several links (none of which I followed). I do believe there is a clearly established link between alcohol consumption and estrogen levels, but I don't know if there's been any study specifically directed toward the impact on weight loss/gain.

 

Cat