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Talk to me gently (teenage dd)


Amethyst
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Done that and been there twice.  I survived and you will too.  I would just let it go unless she's going out with you to family things or church.  Hugs...big hugs! 

 

Haha, I think church is the BEST place to let her do this.  You'll find out what kind of people make up your church.  :glare:

 

(I posted above a bit of our experience, and yes, it still bothers me.)

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This is definitely a "let it go" issue. It's about taste. The thick eyeliner with wings seems to be "in" right now judging by some of the teens I see. If she's really out of bounds, one of her peers will say something. And if it turns out that she likes a more dramatic look than you do and keeps it that way, you gotta accept that, too.

 

Save your ammunition for something important. There will be important things.

 

I also agree with a pp that criticizing her make-up is likely to be taken as criticizing her. 

 

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My mom started letting me do make-up going into Jr Hi (7th grade). She bought some mascara, eyeshadow, etc, and told me that if my face looked like "two burnt holes in a blanket" she would take it away and I could try again NEXT YEAR!!! Needless to say, I was very careful in my application from then on.... :lol:

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There is no way I would have taken makeup advice from my mother as a teen.

Just to say something about this to give hope to parents of teens? As a young teen, no, you are right. BUT, as older teens? They will. For example, I helped my dd with her makeup for an audition. She received so many compliments that she changed the way she was doing her make up. So, even if they don't listen at 14 or 15, give them time and space and they will eventually come back to you. :)

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I remember my mom always saying, "Why fool with make up now? You do it when you're older and you'll have years and years of it."

 

The funny thing is that I still love playing with make up and using it -- although I use loads less than I used to.

 

My mom also used to get on me for wearing too much perfume. Which. I. Totally. Did. I must have smelled awful.

 

I do think it's part of the teenage phase of finding herself.

 

I'm sorry. I have boys. I think this would be rough to go through.

 

Alley

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I say this very gently as a mother of children who are now adults able to make all of their own decisions - If it isn't going to effect her physical, emotional, or spiritual health, Let it go!   

 

You won't always like the decisions they make - goodness knows my kids have done lots of things that make me groan. But, as much as you can be, be her cheerleader and her soft place to fall.

 

Save your worry and your strength for the really important matters.

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I wear thick liquid eyeliner and wings from time to time. I just wish I was young because then I could wear it all the time. It's very popular right now. I mean, I REALLY wish I was young enough to pull it off. I would totally let your daughter do it. And I'd help her learn how to do it right. (you have to pull at your lid a little and aim really high up toward the brow.)

 

And brows are different now than they used to be.

 

This reminds me of when I was a teen. My friend had fingernails that were long and shaped somewhat pointy. But at the time the newest way to do nails was to have them in a rounded-square shape. My friend did the long, somewhat pointy nails because she said, "My mom has taught me how to do nails." But they were really outdated. Really outdated. I felt sorry for her because she wanted her nails to look nice, but they looked like old lady nails. (Well, old lady to a teenager--the mom was probably 40 something back then, which is what I am now.)

 

Let her have fun with makeup. One day she'll be 41 and won't be able to do the new trends because she'll be old and it'll be harder to do the trendy stuff without looking goofy.

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I went through make-up issues with my dd when she was a teen. Her friend down the street (blond, blue-eyed) gave dd some make-up. My daughter is African. The make-up did NOT work for her at all. She looked like a poorly painted doll. I gently tried to point out to her that she needed different colors and tones and offered to take her to purchase some (even though I don't wear make-up at all). She was very resistant and insisted on using her friend's completely unsuitable make-up. I didn't say anything, but dh finally stepped in and put a stop to it. He couldn't stand seeing her look so ridiculous. He told her that if she chose to wear make-up, her responsibility was to wear it well. She decided it wasn't worth the effort and quit.

 

Personally, I think that if the OP's dd really looks that bad, the parents have a right to curtail the make-up use. I don't think it's helpful to kids to let them go around looking terrible in the name of "finding" themselves. I don't see any reason that the parents couldn't say, "If you wish to use make-up, you need to learn to use it appropriately."

 

But honestly, I would not make a huge stink about it. This, too, shall pass.

 

Although I know adults who still wear heavy black liner. On one or two, it works for their style. On most, it just looks bad.

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This is timely, because just yesterday I gave my dd mascara and a lesson in applying it.

 

We tend to wait for things a little longer than many people. For instance, she had to wait til 13 for pierced ears, and she has to wait til 16 to date.

 

I bought her clear mascara for Xmas last year and she's always been allowed to wear Burt's Bees lip stuff (mostly uncolored).

 

No eyeliner yet, here. It's so common to see 13-15 year olds trying out eyeliner looks--it's always super thick, even if that ISN'T the trend! You can practically tell the girl's age by the eyeliner...But now wings and such ARE a trend.

 

Anyway, I try not to put too much emphasis on appearance. Just last night, I did a Theological Reflection using my dd's mascara tube as a starter. We talked about the messages young women get. And I said I have to be careful, because forbidding makeup is just as much an "outside appearance matters a lot" message as saying "Wear lots of makeup."

 

So my take is, age appropriate (with our personal parameters), apply it correctly (allowing for trends), and mostly, foster INNER beauty--try to spend more time on THAT!

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Have you looked at the girls in public school? Thick eye liner is how they do it now.

 

Yes, actually, I have. Last week was the big end of year 8th grade dance. My dd got all gussied up and the makeup was even heavier than usual. When I drove her over to a friend's house for pictures where 10 of her friends were, not a single girl had makeup anywhere near as heavy as she did. It is probably one of the things that has me concerned again. I've been letting this go all year thinking that, oh well, it's just the style. But she was the only one that heavily made up.

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I wonder if the conflict is that you want her to look 'pretty' and she wants a different look - cool, sexy, avant garde - whatever. So you are telling her it doesn't look 'good' and she is ignoring you because she knows that by 'good' you mean makeup that looks pretty, blends in, looks discreet but enhancing etc. And that just isn't the statement she wants to make.

This is quite possible. She is naturally very pretty, but from a very young age she wanted her fashion to make a statement. I just let it go thinking that she would outgrow her outrageous styles, but she still thinks she might want to be a fashion designer. So, yeah, pretty might not be what she's after. Thanks for pointing that out.

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One other thing, last year during her first year at the public school I got very positive feedback from the teachers. She's so sweet, so helpful, chooses nice friends, etc. This year, my dd has said that "the dress code is so unfair! There are girls that wear skirts that are WAY shorter than mine and they never say anything to those other girls, only ME!" I've not said this to her, but I suspect that the makeup gives the teachers a different impression of her. They are looking for a rule-breaker because she looks like a rule-breaker. 

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Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful posts. I've read every single one. I asked you to talk to me gently because I know down inside that I need to let this go, as so many of you suggested, but I just needed a gently nudge. It really spoke to me those of you that mentioned that it will jeopardize our relationship, or that you remember hurts from Mom from so long ago. I don't want to be that "mean" mom. (Of course, I also agree with those of you that said that it's okay for parents to give some guidance about makeup too. So I'm still somewhat torn!) But I will try really hard to say only positive things about her appearance. 

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OP  - have you watched any of the makeup/youtube videos with her (would she let you)?  Perhaps if you do that, you can see what she's trying to achieve and give helpful tips/hints while still allowing her to practice the look she wants?  She sounds very fashion forward. :)   I wish I'd had youtube for hints/tips when I was learning about makeup!  Best wishes!   

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One other thing, last year during her first year at the public school I got very positive feedback from the teachers. She's so sweet, so helpful, chooses nice friends, etc. This year, my dd has said that "the dress code is so unfair! There are girls that wear skirts that are WAY shorter than mine and they never say anything to those other girls, only ME!" I've not said this to her, but I suspect that the makeup gives the teachers a different impression of her. They are looking for a rule-breaker because she looks like a rule-breaker. 

 

I would gently point that out.  Ask what sort of message she wants to send about herself with her appearance. Maybe she should wear wild makeup on weekends but not to school?

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There are girls that wear skirts that are WAY shorter than mine and they never say anything to those other girls, only ME!" I've not said this to her, but I suspect that the makeup gives the teachers a different impression of her. They are looking for a rule-breaker because she looks like a rule-breaker. 

 

We dealt with this with my dd, too. She liked to wear daisy dukes and strappy tank tops and high-heeled sandals, and then she complained that guys were hitting on her. I told her that in a perfect world she would be free to dress as she liked, end of story, but that she lives in the real world and, in this world, boys and men will comment on sexy clothing and/or think she is trying to make herself available. We all have to live with the consequences of our decisions. If she wants to wear wild make-up, she will be judged for it. We can rail against that all we like, but it remains the way it is.

 

I was a punk teenager. My mother was horrified by what others thought of me. I remember not caring at all because I was trying to show that I was not like other people. Dressing crazy and wearing bad make-up is an immature way of trying to assert individuality, but for the most part, it's not harmful. But she will have to accept the consequences of her choices. If she can't accept them, she needs to modify her make-up. Complaining about the consequences of one's choices is also immature.

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I have boys but along those lines.  We always kept ds hair cut super short.  One year he decided he wanted to let it grow out.  So I figured it was only hair and he needed a way to "express" himself.  It looked like a shaggy mop and really drove the grandparents nuts.  I didn't like it either but kept quiet.  After a year or so he tried a new shorter style and liked it. (looked much better too).  

 

Fast forward a few years.  Ds is looking at some old pictures and says "man my hair looked horrible"  I just grinned and said "you told me you liked it and it was cool" 

 

Now same boy is growing a beard.  Do I like it? NO (and neither do the grandparents)  but again it is his outlet for free expression so I am trying to keep my mouth closed.  Some days it is sooooooo hard though 

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I wore makeup when I was young, but haven't for a long time. When my dd reached the age that we would allow her to wear makeup, I took her to a professional makeup place in the mall and allowed an "expert" to do her makeup and teach her about skin care. There with the expert we discussed the overly dramatic makeup and the message it sends. (The Clinique girl was great, said that the overly dramatic stuff was great for the red carpet, but looked like the wearer was trying too hard in the harsh light of day!)

 

Dd and I discussed the difference between people we knew who wore their makeup so thick that it looks like it was applied with a palette knife, and those who cultivated a more natural look. We talked a lot about why people choose to wear the makeup they do. Dd agreed with me that for her age, it was best to wear makeup that enhanced her looks so that when someone looked at her, they saw her features at their best first, not the makeup.

 

Another consideration is that makeup is expensive! Who is buying this eyeliner for your dd? I have had to put my 15yo dd on a makeup budget because she would spend a huge amount of money on it, if there were no limits.

 

One other thing you could do is find a teen photo of you, dressed in whatever the fashion extremes were at that time. Then tell your dd that fashion trends do change and some day, she will be horrified to look back and see some of the more dramatic, trendy things she embraced. (Why did we do those things to our faces, our hair, and wear those clothes???? What were we thinking???)

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One other thing, last year during her first year at the public school I got very positive feedback from the teachers. She's so sweet, so helpful, chooses nice friends, etc. This year, my dd has said that "the dress code is so unfair! There are girls that wear skirts that are WAY shorter than mine and they never say anything to those other girls, only ME!" I've not said this to her, but I suspect that the makeup gives the teachers a different impression of her. They are looking for a rule-breaker because she looks like a rule-breaker. 

 

My thoughts--maybe this is a good opportunity for some old teachers to learn to not judge a book by it's cover!!  I would absolutely be on my daughters side if I thought she was being treated differently because of some eyeliner. 

 

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I'm not sure I'd assume it really is the case that the teachers are applying the dress code unfairly due to her make-up.  Chances are they are not because chances are a LOT of girls are wearing similar make-up.  While all my kids were in public school I volunteered in the front office of the middle school.  *Every* kid who came in with a dress code violation (and there was always at least one during my 2 hour weekly shift) said it "wasn't fair" and "so-and-so has a (shorter dress, ripped jeans, tank top, etc.) and they didn't get in trouble" and "it's always me who gets caught and never anyone else."  Are 100% of the kids caught for violations?  No.  But ever kid who was swore it was only them!

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My thoughts--maybe this is a good opportunity for some old teachers to learn to not judge a book by it's cover!!  I would absolutely be on my daughters side if I thought she was being treated differently because of some eyeliner. 

 

I think that sometimes teens (and, let's face it, people in general) want it both ways. They want to dress or behave in ways that call attention to themselves, but then when the attention causes a pinch they don't like, they want to complain about it.

 

I am by no means a conformist. But neither am I immature enough to believe that I am free from the consequences of my decisions. That's part of growing up: learning that not everything you do is going to net the outcomes you desire and learning to balance your need to be yourself with the outcomes you desire. 

 

In my dd's clothes situation that I mentioned previously, my advice to her was very practical: change the way you dress to avoid (or reduce) the attention you claim you don't want, or man up and deal. Complaining about a situation without taking steps to resolve it is immature. Period.

 

Now, in the OP's daughter's situation, changing her outward appearance is not her only option for taking steps to resolve the problem. Advocating for herself is also an option. If she feels she is being singled out due to her appearance, she could certainly talk to the teacher(s) in question about it.

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I think that sometimes teens (and, let's face it, people in general) want it both ways. They want to dress or behave in ways that call attention to themselves, but then when the attention causes a pinch they don't like, they want to complain about it.

 

I am by no means a conformist. But neither am I immature enough to believe that I am free from the consequences of my decisions. That's part of growing up: learning that not everything you do is going to net the outcomes you desire and learning to balance your need to be yourself with the outcomes you desire.

 

In my dd's clothes situation that I mentioned previously, my advice to her was very practical: change the way you dress to avoid (or reduce) the attention you claim you don't want, or man up and deal. Complaining about a situation without taking steps to resolve it is immature. Period.

 

Now, in the OP's daughter's situation, changing her outward appearance is not her only option for taking steps to resolve the problem. Advocating for herself is also an option. If she feels she is being singled out due to her appearance, she could certainly talk to the teacher(s) in question about it.

I agree that our appearance can tell people a lot about us. I would hope that a teacher would recognize a girl with too much eye makeup as a young girl experimenting and not as a young girl in a biker gang.

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If her peers say something - then she''ll listen ;-)   Meanwhile, 'tis the fashion among the teen girls, and half the appeal is that we oldsters hate the look.  Just smile and note "Everyone has to go through this phase" to her. 

 

My teen has a bestie who is dark-skinned (her folks hail from Paktistan) and she is a lovely girl...who insists on WHITE eye liner and shadow.  No no no......

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I asked my (very noncomformist) dd12.5 about this. She said, "If the girl really is being discriminated against, then it is her fault for wearing too much eye make-up. Schools don't want kids coming there looking outrageous. They want them coming there focused on learning. She should quit wearing so much eye make-up to school and save it for when she's on her own time."

 

Dd did add the caveat that, "I don't like make-up, so maybe my opinion is influenced by that."

 

ETA: I neither endorse nor condemn my dd's take. I just posted it as a kid's perspective.

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 make her see the wisdom of my superior ways

 

:huh:  Do you really think your ways are so superior.  If so, that is where your problem lies.  Every generation works hard to look and act different from the previous one.  From bellbottoms to acid wash, to skinny jeans; jazz, to the Beatles, to rap; fashions change and parents have told their kids that they are wrong for liking what they like.  

 

It is not only appropriate for her to deviate from your preferred make-up standards, but healthy.  Kids are supposed to find healthy ways to push boundaries and discover themselves.  Encourage her, support her, but please don't share the "wisdom of your superior ways" on a topic so trivial as make-up.  It will only drive a wedge between the two of you.

 

PS - If your child's greatest rebellion is her choice of eye-liner, you are both going to come through this stage just fine.  

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One other thing you could do is find a teen photo of you, dressed in whatever the fashion extremes were at that time. Then tell your dd that fashion trends do change and some day, she will be horrified to look back and see some of the more dramatic, trendy things she embraced. (Why did we do those things to our faces, our hair, and wear those clothes???? What were we thinking???)

 

Funny you mention this.

 

When I look at old photos of my Mom, she always looks lovely.  You can tell what decade it was, but she always went for a classic, conservative look.  I was proud of her as a girl, because she never even went to the grocery store without a dress on.

 

When I look at my MIL's photos, it's hilarious.  Whatever the trend was, that's what she did in spades.  When bouffant hairdos were in, she has a big one.  If it was the year of the peddle pusher, that's what she wore.  Some of her photos are hideous, but they reflect her fun loving personality.  She wasn't (and still isn't)  as concerned about what other people think as my mother.  She was more confident, risk taking, and independent.  I love her photos, because they do capture her joie de vivre.

 

I love them both, and one way isn't necessarily better than the other.  You have to just live out your own personality.  If I had worn bad makeup, my mother would have tried to be tactful, but she would have disapproved and really hated it.  I think my MIL would have taken it in stride and been glad her daughter wasn't afraid to try things.  She would have figured makeup washes off and wouldn't care if people made judgments.  And they both were great Moms - just different.  But if my mother had been my MIL's Mom, I guess there would be some head butting:)

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:huh:  Do you really think your ways are so superior. 

No, of course not. I put that in the original post to indicate that exactly the opposite. I put it there so everyone would know that I recognize that I'm pushing what I prefer on my dd. I guess sarcasm doesn't always come through on the internet. But thanks for giving me the chance to clarify, in case everyone thought I was serious.

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One other thing you could do is find a teen photo of you, dressed in whatever the fashion extremes were at that time. Then tell your dd that fashion trends do change and some day, she will be horrified to look back and see some of the more dramatic, trendy things she embraced. (Why did we do those things to our faces, our hair, and wear those clothes???? What were we thinking???)

Funny thing is that I was such a traditional classic dresser always. My daughter's school had 80's day today and so we looked through pictures and you know, I don't dress much differently now than I did then. Or in the 70's. I was not a trendy type. Still not. She however is all about trendy.

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en went to the grocery store without a dress on.

 

When I look at my MIL's photos, it's hilarious.  Whatever the trend was, that's what she did in spades.  When bouffant hairdos were in, she has a big one.  If it was the year of the peddle pusher, that's what she wore.  Some of her photos are hideous, but they reflect her fun loving personality.  She wasn't (and still isn't)  as concerned about what other people think as my mother.  She was more confident, risk taking, and independent.  I love her photos, because they do capture her joie de vivre.

 

 

This bolded part is interesting to me. Because I wore what was classic rather than what was trendy, I considered myself independent and confident. I didn't have to be wearing what "everyone else" was wearing. Maybe not a risk-taker. But I think the trendy people rely on what other people think of them more than someone who is constantly changing. Your comment just got me thinking. I can understand your perspective about your MIL though.

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This bolded part is interesting to me. Because I wore what was classic rather than what was trendy, I considered myself independent and confident. I didn't have to be wearing what "everyone else" was wearing. Maybe not a risk-taker. But I think the trendy people rely on what other people think of them more than someone who is constantly changing. Your comment just got me thinking. I can understand your perspective about your MIL though.

 

Oh, yeah, I see what you are saying.  My MIL's personality is reflected in lots of ways - not just how she dressed.  I think a confident person could dress anywhere on the range from conservative to outrageous, and the same is true for an insecure person.  It's just part of a bigger picture.  I am definitely more of a serious person and more reserved in how I dress.  But I  find my MIL refreshing in this respect.  She has more of a "consumer" mentality than my family did. My mother (I kid you not) has sofas that are from the Victorian era.  Likewise, she bought high end clothes and expected them to last.  My MIL kept things until she didn't like them and then got something else.  My mother's house looks better, but I admire my MIL's light touch and sense of fun. 

 

But I think I understand how you feel about this.  My oldest son made me give him bleached highlights in his hair as a teen.  It looked terrible, lol.  I told his father that he wasn't going to have hair for long, so he should play with it, but it really wasn't my favorite. 

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Look at it this way, it is makeup. It gets washed off every day. It isn't permanent purple hair dye or a shaved head that would take a long time to grow out. Or extreme facial piercings or visible tattoos that would require medical help to reverse if she later decides that she regrets the decision to get them.

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I once accidentally plucked out almost all my eyebrows at that age. (Early 90s, when pencil thin eyebrows were in.) I think it must be the age.

 

One of my sisters shaved her eyebrow off, thinking it was cool. She looked so funny. I don't know how my mom didn't bust up laughing when she saw her.

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Haha, I think church is the BEST place to let her do this.  You'll find out what kind of people make up your church.  :glare:

 

(I posted above a bit of our experience, and yes, it still bothers me.)

Can someone please explain this and other similar comments suggesting that of all places not to allow the heavily painted look church is the one? I'm not a churchgoer, have gone once as a child with a friend. So I really don't understand the reasoning.

Would you allow the girls to wear this type of makeup if friends from the church were hanging out with your family, but just not in the church itself or is it that other Christians would be the least understanding of makeup improperly applied? Is it against your families religion? I have no experience with church, but always assumed it was more of a family setting where people have known each other for many years and there is no need for images. Are church relationships generally more superficial? I guess this is a spin off, but I don't think it's worth starting a whole thread. Sorry OP.

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My oldest girl is only 7 fwiw, I do however well remember being a sensitive teenaged girl. I was never in to crazy make-up  and I tend to more classic looks but I do well remember the feeling of trying to make sure I had the right look to be accepted and constantly worrying that I didn't. Teenaged girls have enough self-esteem issues on their own, they don't need their parents telling them they look terrible as well, it isn't going to help, it will only hurt her feelings. I can see making a rule that certain occasions call for a more subtle look but otherwise I would let her find her way and be there to help her when you can.

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Some things people have to find out for themselves. When my oldest entered high school I had the darndest time getting her to dress modestly. After four years of home schooling she really wanted the attention that came with belly shirts and low cut shirts. The first day of her Sophomore year of high school she didn't have the same lunch period as any of her friends and didn't know anyone to have lunch with. She listened to some boys at the next table comment on girls as they walked through the lunch line. After she heard them talking about how they considered girls showing too much skin to be "easy", she never wanted to wear those clothes again. I never had another problem with her clothing choices. But I had talked about modesty until I was blue in the face, previously. Some kids don't learn from parents, and some do.

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Others have already said let it go enough, so I won't repeat that.  I just want to say that I do remember some hurtful things my mom (and especially my stepfather) said to me when I was a young teenager and I still remember how bad I felt.  Like so many others have mentioned, it just made me dig my heels in deeper.  

 

I wish I had YouTube videos, or something similar, available when I was a teenager, it would have helped me learn how to put on makeup much better than I did.  My mom never showed me how, so I was left to bumble about with that Maybelline blue eyeshadow on my own.  Yeesh.  I'm 38 and still find the YouTube makeup videos helpful.

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I don't have time to read all the posts, but I'll give my 2 cents.

 

First, I do NOT wear makeup.  My friend had this problem with his daughter. The family had no mom and the two grandmas lived across the country.  I found a make-up person, Mary Kay of all things, who believed in the idea that: "less is more". For a bit of money and about $25 in sales, she taught the teenager how to do makeup on herself.

 

This lady *really* helped by doing two things:  

 

1) she did the makeup on the girl the way the GIRL wanted it done.  Thick and way too much.  And, then took a picture.

 

Then... 2) she did the makeup on the girl with classy colors and the right colors for her complexion (this little girl had freckles and beautiful orange hair). Then, took another picture.

 

They compared the pictures.  Both grammas compared the pictures.  Dad kept his mouth shut.  I kept my mouth shut.  The change was done by the final product.

 

The lady then taught her to do it right.  

 

My dd13 hasn't discovered makeup yet. I am just.fine.with.that!  But, when the time comes, I will probably do the same thing again.  Better to teach her the idea that less is more now.

 

Good luck,

Kris

 

P.S. Oh, and before you think that was the cure all.... my friend's daughter STILL had "wild days" and did use the other stuff that she had, but she knew the difference between what looked natural and beautiful and fun.

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My daughter wears her makeup the same way. I never know what color her eyebrows are going to be.  I've had to get over it.  It was hard for me to do though. 

 

For some years we did say no to so much make up because we felt she was doing it just to get attention. IT was a character issue.   There was more to it than that but that is the gist.  Anyway, after she got older I let it go, as we could see that it wasn't a character issue any longer, and truly she just loves makeup.  She is good at applying it.  I've let her do her sister's makeup for a special occasion and it was gorgeous.

 

So .. while I don't like it ... she does.  And others do too!   I think she is (more) beautiful without all that stuff on her face ... but whatever.  I hope you can look past it.  :)

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