I don't want to test the kids. Am I being irrational?

[Heidi]

Dh came home from church today, of all places, saying that we need to test our kids against a national standard to see how they measure up and to see if there any gaps that need addressing.

 

Apparently some guy at church made a comment about homeschoolers in general not being prepared for college because they don't know everything that PSers know... or something like that, and it got dh concerned. He has always been happily supportive, yet uninvolved in our homeschool. He thinks I am doing a good job, but wants them tested against a standard.

 

My homeschool is very Latin centered, very skill heavy in elementary and interst- led in science, with an emphasis in Greek mythology, roman/ Middle Ages history, and poetry memorization, so nothing like what they do at public school. I take a lot of pride in how I educate the kids. I'm feeling very defensive about his suggestion to test.

 

Admittedly it hurts my pride, but also I think it is irrelevant and a waste of time. It would be for my dd10 & dd8, who are on target or advanced for their age according to my observations on how well they complete their curriculum.

 

I'm having a hard time explaining to him WHY I don't want to test them against national standards. Can someone put that into words for me if you feel the same way? Or would you all test to appease the dh?

[ElizabethB]

I test yearly in math and LA. I used to use the ITBS but switched to the online computer adaptive letsgolearn tests. I think it is good practice and helpful. Even it they are above, it does help pinpoint sub areas where work is needed.

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/lglsite/assessments/

[Kathryn]

I wouldn't do it to appease anyone outside of your DH, but I think he has a right to make that request. I'd still talk with him about what you expect to see and chances are that you'll be right and this might be a one-time request. We test, but it's honestly just for fun. DS enjoys it. My 8yo is on a completely different trajectory for things like science and "social studies," but he scored far above the national average on those tests. His known weak areas were the ones he scored lower on, so we didn't really learn anything from them.

[EmilyGF]

I tested my kids last summer. It was a pain in the neck, since they were young enough that I was required to read it aloud, but I'm going to do it again. 

 

I think it makes clear to them that testing is no big deal (warding off test anxiety) and is normal. It keeps me honest - I've met homeschoolers who really seem to fool themselves about what "average" is! It helps me see what areas need work - maybe I haven't noticed because they aren't areas that I think about! 

 

I used the ITBS and was generally happy with it. If we test this summer, I'll use the other test BJU offers. I read the test and my kids' answers so that I could figure out if the problems they had were test-related or real. I gave them a test prep workbook every morning for 15 min for a month to get them used to a standardized test format, but really, it isn't that tricky.

 

Emily

[quark]

When we were with our charter school, we were required to test every year from second grade onwards for the mandatory state testing. I did it to appease the charter's requirements (DH couldn't care less!) because we were getting a good stipend in return and I just didn't think it necessary to refuse. The test was simple, didn't require that we take time to prep or anything like that and all I had to do was drive him to the next city two or three days in a row and wait for him to be done and we usually took the days off afterwards to visit the library or bookstore or eat ice cream or watch a movie etc. 

 

Since age 7, we've done three national standardized tests outside the charter's state testing requirements and I did them either to see if there were shocking gaps (there were gaps but they were not shocking and I couldn't trust the state test to be accurate) and to make relevant changes to our curriculum/ compacting or to wrap up some level of study and use the test result to validate it. All three have been very helpful to me. I didn't need to do them yearly. We did one at 7yo, one at 8yo and the most recent at 11yo. The most recent test was done with lots of enthusiasm from DS and DH, both were ready to see what 6 years of homeschooling had led to in comparison with national standards. No test is 100% accurate but this one (the SAT) was something we were all looking forward to because there is good nationally compiled data and it was interesting to see DS's percentiles. Some people also use the SAT or ACT for talent search programs but that was not our main requirement.

 

I understand not wanting to test. I don't feel any strong pull to do it either but there are some benefits as mentioned above and also upthread by other posters. Some kids also like the experience and doing it a little at a time might help acclimatize kids to the idea so that they are not extremely reluctant when you think you need to start preparing college apps etc. I know your kids are still young but it really is much easier to prep with a willing kid!

 

Even if you don't test with the usual ones, perhaps you could also look into contests like the classical ones e.g. National Mythology Exam, Latin classical exams and such. Those might be enough to appease your DH. Good luck!

[coffeegal]

We're required to test in my state, but only the skill areas. Would your husband be happy just testing LA and math, or does he wish to see science and social studies? Those are harder because homeschoolers tend to teach content subjects in a different order than the public schools. :001_smile:

[Desert Strawberry]

I could have written your post, OP. Word for word.

 

When my husband first brought it up, after panicking and being defensive, I agreed to speak with a friend who was a qualified test procter and homeschool mentor. She did not recommend testing before age 9. D was satisfied with that.

 

He brought it up again last year when Sagg was 10. I felt slightly better about the idea. I looked into tests I could administer myself. The testing fee stunned D. We haven't talked about it again.

 

My fear was that the testing, especially at younger ages, would be misleading. We don't do anything close to the public schools, on a completely different timetable. Testing him on things we have not studied will not give an accurate assessment of his progress. Added to that, my kids have delays that take time to resolve. Sagg, at 11, is caught up or ahead in all areas but one. That will be our focus next year. Right now, I would expect low scares in that area.

If we were to test my 8yo, I would expect a dismal failure. Not because homeschooling is failing him, but because he is extremely immature, his skills are not yet up to par and we have our focus on very different subjects than most 2nd graders are studying.

[In The Great White North]

We didn't test until the PSAT.  There were no surprises.

 

Perhaps your dh could read some of the "accepted to college" threads from the past few years.  That might allays his fears and convince him that the commenter at church didn't know what he was talking about or that his "homeschoolers in general" really meant "the one or two homeschoolers I know"

 

 

[freesia]

To be honest, I would just test them. They are sure to do really well--the average for homeschooled kids is something like the 85th percentile. Just do math, LA and Reading. I would discuss what results he'd be happy with. Would he be okay with 50% (average score across the US--on grade level) or does he only want a +90%? Make sure his expectations are realistic, and that he understands percentile scores, but then go ahead and do it. It is painless for my kids.

 

(We do the entire battery of tests and even though we have done different social studies and interest led science until middle school, I've never had anyone score less than somewhere in the 80th % on those tests. They are pretty basic, really.)

[Desert Strawberry]

Also, to me, it hurt my feelings in a not-so-rational way. I felt like D was second guessing my abilities and efforts. I do understand his need for objective confirmation of the children's progress, but part of me felt betrayed by his lack of faith.

 

Do you worry that your dh will withdraw his support if the testing doesn't meet his expectations? 

[Myeightkiddies]

First, don't take it personally.  It was a generalized statement that some guy made that has put a bug in your DH's ear.  The easiest way to squelch the whole thing is to test.  It'll remove any question from your DH, and it should prevent future bugs from appearing.  While you are justified not testing, it will make things go smoother now and in the future if you ease any of your DH's concerns.  

 

You could test locally through a teacher or homeschool group, but the easiest and most convenient method would be to do it at home. Seton has the CAT test.  Just order, administer the test, return to Seton, and wait for your results.  Since at home, it shouldn't stress the children.  Just treat it as if any other school day.  Make sure the children are rested and fed and all will be fine.

[Soror]

Well, I'm against the idea of testing in general, especially those type of end of the year tests in PS, however I do see the value of some testing. We had ds tested by a NP last year and as part of that they did general ed testing, the Woodcock Johnson- which is just skill based and it was a bit illuminating and encouraging. I'm looking into doing the ADAM and DORA tests that ElizabethB mentioned this summer before we start our year. I think the results of that type of testing will be helpful for me as a teacher, especially with ds in the area of Math, since we have done a hodge podge mix the last year and likely to continue that way with the current publishing schedule of BA I'll be glad to have confirmation of what and how ds is doing in various areas. I don't have inclination to test content areas though as I expect that the tests may or may not cover what we covered and I don't really care.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I won't test elementary-aged children. It's a hill to die on for me.

I convinced my DH of the superiority of well-kept portfolios and oral exams. It's so much better for the children to be able to naturally share what they have learned and created than to subject them to external standards, IMNSVHO.

[Desert Strawberry]

I won't test elementary-aged children. It's a hill to die on for me.

 

I convinced my DH of the superiority of well-kept portfolios and oral exams. It's so much better for the children to be able to naturally share what they have learned and created than to subject them to external standards, IMNSVHO.

Would you mind explaining why?

[Ellie]

Dh came home from church today, of all places, saying that we need to test our kids against a national standard to see how they measure up and to see if there any gaps that need addressing.

 

Apparently some guy at church made a comment about homeschoolers in general not being prepared for college because they don't know everything that PSers know... or something like that, and it got dh concerned. He has always been happily supportive, yet uninvolved in our homeschool. He thinks I am doing a good job, but wants them tested against a standard.

 

My homeschool is very Latin centered, very skill heavy in elementary and interst- led in science, with an emphasis in Greek mythology, roman/ Middle Ages history, and poetry memorization, so nothing like what they do at public school. I take a lot of pride in how I educate the kids. I'm feeling very defensive about his suggestion to test.

 

Admittedly it hurts my pride, but also I think it is irrelevant and a waste of time. It would be for my dd10 & dd8, who are on target or advanced for their age according to my observations on how well they complete their curriculum.

 

I'm having a hard time explaining to him WHY I don't want to test them against national standards. Can someone put that into words for me if you feel the same way? Or would you all test to appease the dh?

 

I would not be willing to test my children because some random, ignorant guy at church made a stupid comment. If Mr. Ellie came home with that, I'd probably just tell him no, explain why (my reasons would be similar to yours) and he'd be ok with that, because he trusts me.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

When have lived both in places that require testing and places that don't. Most years we have tested whether or not it was required.

 

Elementary testing is a molehill for me, though. Maybe I'm not the one to ask...

 

We see educating our daughter as a joint responsibility. If one of us feels strongly about something, we try to work it out. I rarely pull rank.  (Usually it's obvious that I am more familiar with what's going on, so there's not often a need.)

 

There have been times we've disagreed about various issues.  I've told him that I understand and respect his thoughts, however he can do whatever needs done to make whatever it is happen 'cause I'm not doing it.  :001_tt2:  

And he does. :)

[solascriptura]

I understand where you are coming from, but in the very least, the testing experience might be good for them. You are correct in recognizing the differences between the education that you are providing versus the school though. My dd reads history books voraciously and for pleasure. However, her test score showed a slight weakness in history. I suspect that it is because they may have covered modern history ,but we haven't hit that yet due to the history cycles.

[Mom2pandc]

One of the best things I've ever heard about testing was by Andrew pedewa from iew. He said something along the lines of testing will only show what they don't know, not the hundreds of interesting (yet untested) things they do know.

The results will only give you vanity and disappointment (I think he used a different word here)

Vanity -"look how wonderful they did on this part, they are so smart and advanced!!!!"

Disappointment - "look how low they scored here, I'm a failure and my kids will never make it!!!"

 

I got a good chuckle out of this, especially since I had just voluntarily tested my kids when I heard it!

If he's really bent on it, I'd consider it more out of respect for my husband, but perhaps share what I quoted above about tests not showing what they do know.

Good luck.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Would you mind explaining why?

 

I don't mind. :)

 

1. A quick perusal of my children's carefully-kept portfolios, compared with my state's academic standards for their grade, would show them to be well ahead in every subject.

 

2. I know what they are learning and how they are doing, so if anybody wants to know they may ask me. I don't really need outside help to tell me if they are learning.

 

3. There are no standardized tests that measure the skills that really count to me: Love of reading, creativity, imagination, adaptability/resilience, wonder, talent, kindness, compassion.

 

4. The standardized tests don't include the content that matters to me, either. I don't want my child marched through inane multiple choice questions about literacy when what I really want to know is whether what the reading was understood by him, or has changed him or moved him or caused him to grow....also, there are no questions about folk music, dancing, art, world religions, or Latin. Our school is so profoundly different that the public school-imitating tests are simply not relevant to our school or to my child's educational journey.

 

5. My children don't always learn everything on the testmakers' schedule. They are generally ahead in all subjects, as I mentioned in Point #1, but there are straggling facts, concepts, trivia, and maneuvers that we don't always master in a particular year. And I don't want to shoehorn lessons into my preferred scope and sequence just because "it will be on the test" when I chose or created the alternative scope and sequence for a reason. Which leads to my last point:

 

6. I don't want to choose curriculum or even topics to fit somebody else's idea of elementary education. I don't want to teach to the test in any way, shape, or form.

 

Those of us who are around or above 40 years of age remember when there were very, very, few standardized tests. I took one test, the ISTEP, in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grades, and then the SAT was available for the college-bound high schoolers. That was IT. We were better educated back then and we didn't see testing as a way of life. Not all forward motion is progress.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I forgot address not wanting my young child to feel as if there is an arbitrary yardstick by which he is measured outside of parental guidance and intrinsic self-esteem but that's rather a biggie.

[elinnea]

Our state requires us to test each year.  My kids don't mind taking the tests so it isn't a huge deal for us but I don't really think testing is all that helpful.  As I am actively teaching my kids every day so I am quite aware of their strengths and weaknesses and have never been surprised at the test results.  Also the tests are really only measuring a very small portion of what kids actually know.  

 

My dh is very uninvolved in our homeschool.  A few times he has voiced some concerns and it's made me feel a bit defensive.  However, after I'd given it some thought I realized that he doesn't know what we do every day and is basing his opinions on his own schooling experience.  After I explained to him my homeschool philosophy and why I teach what I teach it helped allay his concerns.  We homeschool for academic reasons so if I was just going to teach the same things they teach at ps and have the same expectations, what would be the point?

 

Perhaps your dh also doesn't have a true picture of what your children are actually learning?  Is he afraid that they are behind in a certain subject?  If you can ascertain what his concerns are I would strive to gently reassure him: show him some of the kids' work, have them do a small presentation for him, etc.  

 

 

[RootAnn]

Can someone put that into words for me if you feel the same way?

 

You could say:

"I feel that the current National Standards (Common Core) are developmentally inappropriate at the ages our younger kids are right now."

 

or:

"In elementary, I have designed our homeschool to be [insert Latin-centered, world history-focused rather than "social studies/US History focused", etc.) and the nationally normed tests will not show those strengths - only where the test-makers believe we should be spending more time. Based on the research I've done, our kids will [fill in the blank]."

 

or:

"I've made a conscious decision not to teach-to-the-test in our homeschool. Why do you want to measure our kids against a standard which I have purposefully avoided emulating?"

 

For us, however, we went into this homeschooling wanting an outside check to what we were doing once we got to a certain level (3rd/4th grade) and every couple of years. Since that was the expectation and agreement, that's what we do. The kids know we test every other year once they are a certain age. It isn't stressful because we don't put pressure on them and we try to make the rest of the testing week fun. Testing-week treats for my kids have included swimming, shopping, & eating out. 

 

The results (ITBS) have never been shocking. The gaps are ones we know about - such as scoring lower on the "Social Studies" section because we don't spend time on it - we learn history. They score low on the areas we are working on because we know they are weak in those areas (dd#2 in math, for example). They score high on the areas they are strong in (reading comprehension for dd#1 & dd#2). 

 

I did have to laugh at Mom2pandc's post because when my dh saw my eldest's ITBS last year, he congratulated me on what a great job I was doing. Then, he saw my dd#2's scores (particularly in math - her Achilles heel) and joked that her teacher should be fired.  :lol:

 

I have very "average" children - especially compared to some of the kids of Hive members. I know that. I'm okay with that. So, I don't go into testing expecting the 85% & higher scores quoted earlier in this thread for all areas. When you talk to your DH, ask him what he wants to see in this testing he's requesting. Like a previous poster asked - does he want 99%+? 80%+? 50%+? Tell him what you expect you would see because You Work With The Kids Every Day. How often will he want to see the testing?

 

My DH likes to see their daily work sometimes. He wants to see all their spelling & math tests. He wants to talk to them every day about what they are learning in history & science. He likes to see their art or what they wrote on their own. Would your DH like to see more of that if he doesn't normally?

 

You asked, "Am I being irrational?" in your subject line. I would say you might be feeling pretty defensive. I would argue your DH is being irrational if the only reason he suddenly wants to test your kids is because of some guy at church making an seemingly uninformed comment. IMO, you shouldn't test the kids Just Because Of Some Crackpot's Comment. But some testing sometimes isn't a bad thing for everyone.

[FO4UR]

I think your dh needs assurance that the kids are getting an excellent education.  Talk him through a day-in-the-life.  Show him the books they've read, the books you've read to them. Go through your goals for the kids, including the high school level, explaining how what you do now is preparing them for later work.  Explain to him how the PS curriculum would fail to meet those high school goals.

 

 

Listen to his concerns.  (What about ______?)   Address those concerns with thoughtful care.  

 

 

My dh was concerned at one point that I was using crazy spelling methods.  (In his day, he had a list of 20 words he memorized....and he turned out fine....sigh....)  It took explaining some intricacies of dyslexia, and how the purpose of spelling is NOT mere spelling, but reading.  He still didn't "get it," but he saw that this is something I have studied into realms he has no desire to ever.hear.again. :lol:   Bottom line: He knows this is something I take very seriously, and I have a plan that is reevaluated yearly.  I'm not being mislead...I'm leading.  

 

 

 

He has a valid concern.  (Perhaps he should take more interest in the work before jumping the gun on testing.  It's an EASY button for him to see a test score rather than evaluate their actual work.)  You have valid reasons for avoiding the standardized tests.  (Perhaps you can make it easier for him to see and evaluate the kids' work.  Display some portfolios. )

[Soror]

 

You asked, "Am I being irrational?" in your subject line. I would say you might be feeling pretty defensive. I would argue your DH is being irrational if the only reason he suddenly wants to test your kids is because of some guy at church making an seemingly uninformed comment. IMO, you shouldn't test the kids Just Because Of Some Crackpot's Comment. But some testing sometimes isn't a bad thing for everyone.

I agree, I don't think some random guy's comment is a good reason to test but I think SOME testing can be helpful. I would likely feel defensive as well and take it personal. It doesn't have to be harsh experience for kids, my son's NP testing didn't negatively effect his net worth, it wasn't about passing or failing but just determining where he was at, ds had some stuff going on that was a bit confusing and with some working memory and EF deficits gauging everything can be challenging sometimes.I'm looking forward to using the ADAM and DORA tests as a tool to help us, not some yardstick to measure and determine or success or worth.

[lewelma]

I would never even consider a broad-based standardized test in elementary.  We march to our own drummer, and why would I want to subject my kids to a test that does not reflect the content and skills learned in my homeschool? 

 

In contrast, I do have them take standardized tests in specific skill areas starting at age 9.  Specifically, my kids take the ABRSM practical music exams because I *believe* in what the curriculum is teaching and thus we prepare for the test.  This allows them to show off their hard work and to not fear tests.  So my older's test schedule has been:

 

Age 9 practical music exam level 3

Age 10 practical music exam level 4

Age 12 practical music exam level 5 + science fair project entered in regional fair

Age 13 written music theory exam  +  Math competition  + science fair project entered in regional fair

Age 14 NZ physics exam  + Math competition + 3 AoPS courses with tests + practical music exam level 6

 

The material on these exams I like, and my kids want to learn it.   I view these kinds of tests in a very different way than a generalized grade-based standardized test. 

 

Perhaps you could lay out some testing that you would actually like to do.  The best thing about exams IMHO is that they motivate you to learn the material.  This does not seem to be the purpose of the standardized tests used in American schools. 

 

Ruth in NZ

[zoobie]

If it were important enough to my DH to research the tests, figure out what/where/how to order, give the tests to the children, and send them back, then I would tell him to go for it. I wouldn't do any of that for him to satisfy some wild hair put in place by a random guy.

 

We have to test every so often for state requirements, and my kids thought the test was fun last year. I don't think it hurt them the no-pressure way I gave it over a week. Even my dyslexic child laughed through the spelling portion, saying, yeah... This is going to be my high score! ;)

[Lilaclady]

I think it might be more beneficial to let your Dh know what you are doing. I feel when the other parent at least knows what is going on, they usually do not feel the need to suggest testing etc. what you might want to do is take your kids notebooks and explain what they have/are learning and what your goals for them for the year was and how it has worked out. When he has a better view of what is going on, he will be able to access if they need to test or not.

 

I test my kids but have always been surprised by the tests. I am so close to what they are learning and generally see more what they haven't learnt yet. Testing helps me see how much more they have learnt.

 

Every month or so, I try to catch my Dh up on what is going on. Not because he doesn't trust me, but more because it is better to have a different opinion weighing in on issues that concern his kids. We parent together and this helps him have a general overview of what is going on.

[jnaj]

I think it's important for the parents to be on the same page with things. Does he REALLY feel it's important that they are tested? If it's really important to him, I would have him look up the testing options and get it set up (since you feel it's not needed.) Or, you could always meet in the middle and pick the testing option that you are most comfortable with. I just did the DORA and the ADAM assessments for my 6 year old daughter (it told me exactly what I knew it would in reading- but in math I was actually blown away.) I liked how those specific tests give suggestions on what to do to help them in areas they might be struggling in, etc (even the ADAM test gives specific Khan Academy links- which I thought was great.) Anyways, it was easy and done online at home and the results are instant. 

 

 

[SevenDaisies]

Maybe it's not that your husband doesn't have faith in you so much as that he wants ammunition to fire back next time someone tries to tell him that his homeschooled children don't know as much as public schooled children. I understand you being defensive, but maybe it's him and not you.

 

I have to test every three years. I probably would not have done it if I didn't have to, but I did, and it really wasn't that bad. We did nothing to prepare other than the Stanford practice test, and dd did quite well. We did skip the Science and History sections because I didn't want to waste the time testing content areas that did not match up with what we had covered. For dh it was further reinforcement that we were doing the right thing

[ElizabethB]

I think it's important for the parents to be on the same page with things. Does he REALLY feel it's important that they are tested? If it's really important to him, I would have him look up the testing options and get it set up (since you feel it's not needed.) Or, you could always meet in the middle and pick the testing option that you are most comfortable with. I just did the DORA and the ADAM assessments for my 6 year old daughter (it told me exactly what I knew it would in reading- but in math I was actually blown away.) I liked how those specific tests give suggestions on what to do to help them in areas they might be struggling in, etc (even the ADAM test gives specific Khan Academy links- which I thought was great.) Anyways, it was easy and done online at home and the results are instant.

I found it interesting to compare the types of things my children were able to figure out that they had not yet studied. My son did better on geometry than he had studied, for example, and my daughter on algebra.

 

Also, while my daughter did well on all LA on the DORA, she was less ahead in spelling than I thought, she can figure out the incorrect word on a multiple choice test but did not do quite as well when she had to type the words on her own, we had stopped doing spelling for a few years since I had not seen her misspell a word for a while, but we added back in a tiny bit of spelling after the test. Also, while I had taught her all the spelling rules and reviewed them every year through 3rd grade, after a few years of not hearing them she forgot a few.

[IsabelC]

I agree that it's a good thing if both partners (or other main carers) are in agreement about, at a minimum, the broader philosophical underpinnings and educational goals. Even if your husband is not involved in the daily homeschooling process at all, he needs to be on board with the bigger issues to be an effective support person.

 

However, I would suggest that you be very cautious about adopting a defensive mentality, where you feel that you must always be justifying what you do and proving that your children are learning well. If your neighbor makes an ignorant comment about how weird and unsocialized your kids are, this does not mean you are obligated to spend four hours reviewing studies and present her with an essay listing prosocial attributes of typical homeschoolers and outlining your weekly schedule to prove you don't keep them locked up away from human contact! It's none of her business and she probably knows nothing about it. 

 

Your husband is, of course, a different matter. Unlike other people, he ought to be entitled to ask questions and be reassured that you are doing what's best for the children. But still, it isn't fair for him to expect you to change your program (introduce formal testing that you don't see as beneficial) based on a random comment from 'some guy at church'. You have done the research, you have had the experience, and you know best how and what your kids learn. So it isn't really up to you to justify not testing. It's up to him to justify why testing would help. What tests does he wish to undertake? Is that kind of test proven to be accurate for students who haven't followed a standard scope and sequence? What does he hope to learn? If the results are not entirely what he hoped, what does he recommend you would do about that? Why would home schooled students be any less prepared for college than public school students? What books, articles or statistics has he found about this? 

 

The other thing you might want to discuss is whether he might really be after 'ammunition' to answer questions from others. Perhaps he isn't that concerned himself about how you and the kids are going, but felt caught off guard and didn't know what to say to the busybody at church? In this case, testing or not is a red herring, and what you need to talk about together is agreeing on what approach to take when other people comment or question your educational choices. 

[RootAnn]

Perhaps you could lay out some testing that you would actually like to do.  The best thing about exams IMHO is that they motivate you to learn the material.  

 

Someone else already suggested this, but y'all might be interested in the National Mythology Exam. I'm including the link for you if you want to look into it for next year. Might be right up your oldest kid's alley. There are some latin ones, too, but I don't know that they will line up as well with Latina Christiana as with some of the other Latin curricula at that level. :-)

[Alice]

I wouldn't do it to appease anyone outside of your DH, but I think he has a right to make that request. I'd still talk with him about what you expect to see and chances are that you'll be right and this might be a one-time request. We test, but it's honestly just for fun. DS enjoys it. My 8yo is on a completely different trajectory for things like science and "social studies," but he scored far above the national average on those tests. His known weak areas were the ones he scored lower on, so we didn't really learn anything from them.

 

I would agree with this. I think your dh has the right to bring up testing and suggest it. My dh and I share teaching responsibilities somewhat but I still do the bulk of the research, planning and teaching. Even though he is involved more than most Dads in the day-to-day of teaching, he doesn't have anywhere near as clear an idea as I do of what they are capable of and of if they are learning and making progress. I don't think you are being irrational not to wan to test but I can see how if I was in your shoes I might feel overly defensive. I think I'd feel like dh was saying "let's check on how you are doing as a teacher and make sure it's a good job" when dh might really just be seeing it from a very practical standpoint, "do a test, see how they do." Some people (and sterotypically men) like objective data and feel better when they have scores or outside benchmarks to meet. 

 

I had my oldest do the Iowa test last year when he was 9 and in 4th grade. We did it because although I'm not a big fan of testing I feel like it's a necessary tool for kids to be able to do. It's a hoop that they have to jump through at some point and I wanted him to have some practice. We had the opportunity to do it at our co-op and it also was one way to meet our state's requirements so we just did it. I had much the same experience as described above. It showed me he needed to work on the things I knew he needed to work on and was strong in the areas I knew he was strong in. Ds even named which areas were the weak ones before I told him, he knew what he needed to work on also. So it wasn't really all that helpful. The one thing that was nice was that he did very well in science and social studies and I knew we follow a completely different curriculum than public schools for those. 

[Arcadia]

It is a waste of time and money if you don't get to see where your kids did not do well in the tests. As in you bring them to a testing center and you just get the scores in the end.

 

It can be useful if you see the test questions and their answers and the scores/percentiles at the end are just interesting to have.

 

My boys has done both kinds of tests and the test results were useful for keeping parents and his siblings off our back.

 

Tests results has also been helpful in considering getting help in areas that my hubby and I are bad at helping. When we hire a tutor, we want to hire for their consistently weaker areas.

[Hunter]

What are your husband's plans if a child tests very low or very high? Does he want those scores registered somewhere?

 

My children have pulled off some very high scores and those were the ones my husband didn't want anyone to see. One of the boys also pulled off some very low scores on a couple subtests of one test. Those combined scores disqualified that child from being allowed back into the local public school when he thought maybe he wanted to try a math class or even going back full time. Schools have to provide an education, but they can tie you up for years fighting them about the wheres and hows.

 

Often, I didn't know what to do when test scores showed something different than I was observing. High scores made me think and say some things I regret. Low scores caused worries. Scores we were expecting–what was the point?

 

The only time I think testing can help is if you are observing something important that you want to try and prove to someone else that won't believe you. But often if someone doesn't believe you, you often have bigger problems that won't be solved by a test.

 

I REALLY hated when my ex-husband would ignore our family, but then SWOOP in and make a demand with no understanding of the consequences and all that was going on. Often he didn't even know the ages of his children, but would demand to have the last say about very important issues. Depending on the circumstances, no, some men don't have the right to demand a mom test the children, or demand that she doesn't.

 

:grouphug: and good luck!

[kirstenhill]

We are in a state where testing is mandatory, so I am coming from a position of having done testing with my kids. I agree with the PP's who said a lot of it comes down to figuring out where your DH is really coming from.

 

But I am also really wondering where the random guy was coming from, and how what homeschoolers face as they approach college has anything to to do with what early elementary age kids "know" or what standardized tests might show about that. We have used the ITBS and I continue to be surprised at how basic/common sense a lot of the science and social studies questions are. We've done a variety of things for science including a lot of interest-led, and we have certainly done different things for history than public schools do for "social studies". But my daughter has each year gotten pretty high scores on the science/social studies sections anyway just from life experience and random books we've read.

[Ellie]

Maybe it's not that your husband doesn't have faith in you so much as that he wants ammunition to fire back next time someone tries to tell him that his homeschooled children don't know as much as public schooled children. I understand you being defensive, but maybe it's him and not you.

 

 

Generally, people who challenge homeschoolers regarding standardized test scores are not appeased by reporting that the children did, in fact, get good test scores. They'll just move on to some other spurious argument against homeschooling. I prefer not to give them any ammunition to work with. 

[Heidi]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts!

 

I think what has happened is that it has suddenly dawned on dh that our children's education is important. And like someone mentioned, testing the kids is the easy way out for him to know they are recieving a good education so he can rest easy.

 

I think it is time to clue him in and write up my educational philosophy to help him see the big picture goals and how I intend to reach them, as well as how our curriculum this year is supporting those goals.

 

I might test as well, out of respect for dh, if he still wants me to after I show him my goals. Thanks for the links!

 

Now my dd8 would be in 2nd grade this year, but is doing third grade work. Would I test her as a 2nd grader or a 3rd grader?

 

Dd10 did the mythology exam last year and did great. I want dd8 to take the exam, but we missed it this year bc of major life events (baby in November, sold house in December, lived out of suitcases in January, moved overseas in February). Maybe next year.

[Lolly]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts!

 

I think what has happened is that it has suddenly dawned on dh that our children's education is important. And like someone mentioned, testing the kids is the easy way out for him to know they are recieving a good education so he can rest easy.

 

I think it is time to clue him in and write up my educational philosophy to help him see the big picture goals and how I intend to reach them, as well as how our curriculum this year is supporting those goals.

 

I might test as well, out of respect for dh, if he still wants me to after I show him my goals. Thanks for the links!

 

Now my dd8 would be in 2nd grade this year, but is doing third grade work. Would I test her as a 2nd grader or a 3rd grader?

 

Dd10 did the mythology exam last year and did great. I want dd8 to take the exam, but we missed it this year bc of major life events (baby in November, sold house in December, lived out of suitcases in January, moved overseas in February). Maybe next year.

 

 

You could test at either level, but best and most accurate results would come from testing her for the age appropriate grade level (2nd). 

[Hunter]

Generally, people who challenge homeschoolers regarding standardized test scores are not appeased by reporting that the children did, in fact, get good test scores. They'll just move on to some other spurious argument against homeschooling. I prefer not to give them any ammunition to work with.

:iagree:

[Hunter]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts!

 

I think what has happened is that it has suddenly dawned on dh that our children's education is important. And like someone mentioned, testing the kids is the easy way out for him to know they are recieving a good education so he can rest easy.

 

I think it is time to clue him in and write up my educational philosophy to help him see the big picture goals and how I intend to reach them, as well as how our curriculum this year is supporting those goals.

 

I might test as well, out of respect for dh, if he still wants me to after I show him my goals. Thanks for the links!

 

Now my dd8 would be in 2nd grade this year, but is doing third grade work. Would I test her as a 2nd grader or a 3rd grader?

 

Dd10 did the mythology exam last year and did great. I want dd8 to take the exam, but we missed it this year bc of major life events (baby in November, sold house in December, lived out of suitcases in January, moved overseas in February). Maybe next year.

Sometimes there is an overlap of the tests. When there was, I always picked the harder test. Those were the tests that my youngest got his REALLY high scores on because he was being compared to children who had never received instruction at that level. Also my son was a sloppy test taker, so more hard questions, instead of just a few hard questions gave him more of a chance to show off his higher level skills.

 

We were in a town that REALLY pushed testing, and as a low income mom, I really didn't have any options but to comply. I didn't have any choice in the testing other than which test to use when they overlapped.

 

The first year they STRONGLY recommended the easier test, but after my son got the highest test scores in the town that year, they trusted me to choose after that.

[Berta]

I'm one of those over 40 yr olds (well over!) and I do not like testing. DH helps teach math and grammar to our 8 yr old. He has not been a strong supporter of homeschool although he isn't totally against it. He still feels she should be "in school", because that's where kids belong. Our daughter was struggling with some of the grammar which prompted him to ask about having her tested. I went through all my reasons why I didn't feel it was necessary, but he said it would put his mind at ease. If it were anyone else requesting testing I would have shut them down without another thought, but as her father he does have the right to such a request. I found the CAT test online and was able to have her take it at home, doing each section and able to take a break in between. It was $25 and the results came instantly to me, and only me.

 

I printed out the results for him and he was flabbergasted. She is well above grade level on everything. He is happy, my daughter is happy that she did so well (and has it on paper to prove it) and that makes my job of homeschooling her that much easier. I will test her again when she is in middle school and high school, but for now DH is satisfied.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

Now my dd8 would be in 2nd grade this year, but is doing third grade work. Would I test her as a 2nd grader or a 3rd grader?

 

 

We tested at grade level during the elementary years even though she was working at a higher level.

[freesia]

What level you test at would depend on your purpose. Since your dh is interested in if they are keeping up, test on grade level. That compares them with others in their grade. That's the assurance he is saying he needs.

[Ellie]

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts!

 

I think what has happened is that it has suddenly dawned on dh that our children's education is important. And like someone mentioned, testing the kids is the easy way out for him to know they are recieving a good education so he can rest easy.

 

I think it is time to clue him in and write up my educational philosophy to help him see the big picture goals and how I intend to reach them, as well as how our curriculum this year is supporting those goals.

 

I might test as well, out of respect for dh, if he still wants me to after I show him my goals. Thanks for the links!

 

Now my dd8 would be in 2nd grade this year, but is doing third grade work. Would I test her as a 2nd grader or a 3rd grader?

 

Dd10 did the mythology exam last year and did great. I want dd8 to take the exam, but we missed it this year bc of major life events (baby in November, sold house in December, lived out of suitcases in January, moved overseas in February). Maybe next year.

 

You would test your dd based on the grade she would be in if she were in school (date of birth, cut-off date in your state). That's what the norms are based on.

 

You and Mr. Heidi might want to have the discussion about random people bringing up things like test scores and how we shouldn't let them decide how we teach our children, KWIM? We mothers are more used to that kind of interaction than the fathers are. :-)

 

[SevenDaisies]

I guess, but that strikes me as either immature or a guy thing (one upmanship....sorry if I offend any guys here, and this can pertain to women too). I don't feel the need to fire back anything when someone makes dumb comments about stuff they have no clue about. A lot of people who make comments about homeschooling know absolutely nothing about it.

 

Testing wasn't that bad here either, but I could have spent the time and money on something better. Bottom line is that I don't teach to those tests. And I don't want to start doing that.

I'm not saying I agree with him if that is the case, simply that perhaps it has nothing to do with him having faith in her and that she need not be defensive. My husband has a tendency to be rather pretentious, and while I feel no need to defend my decisions to others, he does.

 

I don't teach to the tests either. She did the practice test right before she took the test just so she was familiar with the format. I am almost certain I would not have tested if I wasn't required. It did, however, satisfy any doubts dh might have had, and it wasn't nearly as bad as I would have expected.

 

Edited to fix typo

[AMJ]

Speaking as a homeschool parent who has just completed the first year of homeschooling (after switching from brick & mortar school), I'm also wondering about standardized testing.  I'm wondering not so much whether to test, but when to test.

 

My eldest has some diagnosed issues that call for some accommodations on standardized tests and in the classroom in general.  However, we will have to have her evaluated by a neuropsych again in the future for these accommodations to be granted on tests taken in high school (evaluation and diagnoses must be within 3 years of the scheduled test).

 

One benefit of the switch to homeschool -- for us -- was the fact I don't have to test periodically on any subject throughout the school year.  I can evaluate progress interactively instead, which gives me a better understanding of how the kids' brains work and whether they are getting the material down or not.

 

Additionally the private school we were using switched the standardized tests they administered while our kids were still attending there (to a test I'm less familiar with), and I'm not that confident in how they administered the tests, either.  Our final year there they insisted they were unable to grant any of the accommodations the neuropsych called for (other than not making her fill out bubble sheets), and so DD's test scores were clearly negatively affected and did not show her actual grasp of the material.  Despite scoring decently DD came out of it feeling stupid and frustrated.

 

I plan to administer standardized tests to my kids, but first I need to research and choose a test.  I also want to give a little more time before administering such a test, to get them accustomed to the format of whichever test I choose and to work on forestalling the test anxiety they might develop.  I need to know how my kids are stacking up against expectations from universities as they enter junior high and high school, so we can adjust and tailor our schooling to fill any perceived gaps.

 

The end result I desire is for my kids to be able to function well in the world, and for them to be able to go out and do anything they desire.  This means eldest needs to learn how to address the diagnosed issues that make certain schooling more difficult for her.  She needs to learn to manage these aspects of herself, and work past them.  Not just universities but workplaces in general will demand this.  Standardized tests will be a tool to use to this end, as a measure against society's expectations, and as a way of identifying how each kid's brain works, so they can learn to use their strengths and build on their less-strong aspects.

 

Just some thoughts from this perspective. 

[happypamama]

If it were DH asking, I'd discuss with him a bit more about his concerns, what he thinks testing will prove, etc. If he still really felt that it would be necessary, well, I'd probably do it, because he's their parent too, and his concerns matter, even I personally think testing is pointless at the elementary level. I think it's important to remember that although we moms are usually the ones in charge of education, our DHs are not junior parents, and sometimes that means acknowledging their concerns in a way that might not be our favorite path.

 

Personally, I think testing is silly for elementary schoolers. I've had to do it three times so far, because our state requires it, but while it's been pretty painless and not too expensive ($25 each time), it's told me nothing I didn't already know. I already know where my kids' strengths and weaker areas were. And the tests did not reflect their interests in history, what they'd learned about science or art, the vast collection of classical music they know, nor their obsession with Star Wars. IOW, my kids and their educations are so much more than a standardized test.

 

(However, I will also admit that since my kids scored at or above where I expected, it *was* a bit of a confidence boost! even though I know I have little or nothing to do with their academic skills. But for a skeptical DH or grandparents, sometimes testing is just what's needed for everyone else to school out and get off Mom's back.)

[ElizabethB]

I tested one grade level ahead with the ITBS, but that is the beauty of the DORA and ADAM K-7, they are computer adaptive and the questions move up and down in complexity based on their answers. You can get a true 2nd grade spelling and 8th grade reading and 5th grade vocabulary score, for example, the questions move to their actual ability in each subsection.

[Berta]

If it were DH asking, I'd discuss with him a bit more about his concerns, what he thinks testing will prove, etc. If he still really felt that it would be necessary, well, I'd probably do it, because he's their parent too, and his concerns matter, even I personally think testing is pointless at the elementary level. I think it's important to remember that although we moms are usually the ones in charge of education, our DHs are not junior parents, and sometimes that means acknowledging their concerns in a way that might not be our favorite path.

 

Personally, I think testing is silly for elementary schoolers. I've had to do it three times so far, because our state requires it, but while it's been pretty painless and not too expensive ($25 each time), it's told me nothing I didn't already know. I already know where my kids' strengths and weaker areas were. And the tests did not reflect their interests in history, what they'd learned about science or art, the vast collection of classical music they know, nor their obsession with Star Wars. IOW, my kids and their educations are so much more than a standardized test.

 

(However, I will also admit that since my kids scored at or above where I expected, it *was* a bit of a confidence boost! even though I know I have little or nothing to do with their academic skills. But for a skeptical DH or grandparents, sometimes testing is just what's needed for everyone else to school out and get off Mom's back.)

 

Exactly! It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, but it did let my DH see exactly where she is academically. I teach most of the subjects while he is at work. He helps with math and grammar when needed. He isn't in the trenches daily like I am. He is a black and white numbers guy. It's not that he doesn't trust me or what I say, he just likes to see it on paper.

 

 

 

My biggest fear was that he'd flub up the bubble sheet.  Hehe..that didn't happen though. 

 

And the instructions said you can coach on the bubble sheet part.  Meaning if you see a kid filling in two bubbles on the same line or skipping lines you can point that out to them.  I was relieved about that fact.

 

Bubble tests give me bad flashbacks! We tested on the computer where it's multiple choice and a click of the mouse which my daughter had no issues with what so ever.