When a grown child causes you unbearable pain...

[Blueridge]

What do you do? This is a very complicated, messy, unbelievable event in our family that has unfolded over the last 2 years. I am trying to get my mind wrapped around it, still. I know that without details, you cannot possibly know how to advise me, but I am so empty at this point, I would value any bit of wisdom you would care to share. Cliff Notes version: Hubby lost job 2 years ago, found new job in new state. Oldest dd was going into her senior year of college. She stayed behind to finish. She is intelligent, high IQ, full scholarship, talented artist. We were grieving at the separation, she was excited with new-found freedom. She meets man. Awful man. College drop-out. From a terrible, abusive home. He needs dd to take care of him and his 15 year old sister who has been emotionally abused by his alcoholic father. DD lies to us to hide his reputation. She makes up wonderful things about him. We meet him for the first time at dd's graduation. He is awful. Never seen an uglier human, really. He is loud and obnoxious. He is prideful and rude. She hangs on his every narcissistic word. We talk for hours, advising her, warning her. We leave for home. They elope. Now her life is a mess. Poverty, bill collector calls, mental abuse toward our dd, his sister lives with them and they both smoke in dd's face. On and on the mess goes. In spite of it all, she *loves* him and is standing by him while he pulls her farther and farther away from everyone who has known and loved her. She has become paranoid and looks at us as the 'enemy'. She insists she will no longer communicate with us until we fully accept him as our son in law. We stand here, states away, crying at her complete change. She is another person and we do not know her at all. All our words of kindness and encouragement fall to the ground, ignored. I feel as though she has died. I do not know how to continue. We have tried kindness. We have tried loving honesty. We have tried patient waiting. She is our daughter and we love her and care deeply for her wellbeing. She is being torn apart because of her loyalty to him. She is under his control and we fear for her. He hated his parents and blames them for his dreadfully unsuccessful life. Now he has convinced her to do the same. She writes me awful, mean and disrespectful emails. Her calls are short and impatient. She hates us because we despise him and what he has done to our precious daughter. I am completely empty and have no more words to share with her. She has told me she has a *new* family now. It's all a really bad dream and I can't wake up. What can I do now? I guess I feel cheated...I thought this sort of thing never happened to a happy, homeschooling family. Thank you for listening to my scrambled thoughts today. Blessings to all~

[unsinkable]

Blueridge,

 

I am so sorry. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new when I write that there are warning signs of abuse there. The fact that your dd is so isolated from you is the most troubling.

 

Your dd has to make the choice to see him for what he is. I am sure there are signs for her that he is trouble but for some reason, she is ignoring the signs. Is this her first serious relationship?

 

You have all my prayers.

 

:grouphug:

[TammyinTN]

I can feel the pain in your post and the raw emotions. I know a little of what your going through. The only answer for me is loads and loads of prayers and a good doctor. I'm praying for you! :grouphug:

[Jumping In Puddles]

First, :grouphug: this sounds like a terrible situation for you and I'm so very sorry you are going through it.

 

I know it is difficult but she is married to him whether you like it or not. She is an adult and she chose this and since there is nothing you can do about it, you should embrace him as your son-in-law. I would call her and tell her so. Tell her you respect her, you would like to get to know her husband more and promise you will try not to not be so judgemental of him.

 

Talk to your daughter as a friend, someone she can lean on and stop telling her about her mistakes and putting down her family. Maybe if she didn't think you were against her family she wouldn't be pushing you away. No adult wants their parents or someone else telling them the person they married is a mistake. The only one who can figure that out is herself.

 

And you have nothing to lose by trying another approach. Your approach now is not working so please, maybe see a counselor or maybe someone here can recommend a good book for you.

 

Good luck, and :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[wagnfun]

Blueridge,

 

I am so sorry. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new when I write that there are warning signs of abuse there. The fact that your dd is so isolated from you is the most troubling.

 

Your dd has to make the choice to see him for what he is. I am sure there are signs for her that he is trouble but for some reason, she is ignoring the signs. Is this her first serious relationship?

 

You have all my prayers.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree: Does she have a friend you can call and confide in?

[HRAAB]

I am so sorry for what you're going through. We have been through something with one of our dd's that has caused us much pain. Different than your situation, but the pain is still there. I would say to always keep the lines of communication open, but it appears you are doing that. Try to not talk about her husband, but focus on her, what she's feeling and doing without bringing him into it. Not much advice; it's so hard to know the right thing to do sometimes. My prayers and thoughts are with your family.

 

Janet

[Kathy in MD]

(((((())))))) I'll be praying for you and yours.

 

I don't know if it will help you any, but I'm hoping that sharing your heartbreak with my 14yo will help stop his following in your dd's footsteps. It seemed it was meant that you post was the first I opened after I found out about the latest problem.

 

My dh and I have just been dealing with the fallout of our ds having a bad friend. I had ds read your post, hoping to open his eyes to what some people will do to drag him down to their level and to turn him away from those he loves and who love him. Thankfully he still comes to us for advice and help, but I'm still afraid. The bad friend is great on playing on my ds's sympathy and ds doesn't always react with logic.

 

I hope that the knowledge that your sharing your story might help another would go a tiny way in helping you deal with your pain.

 

((((())))))

[mommylawyer]

I am so sorry for your situation.

 

I have seen a case or two like this through my job. I think previous post nailed it when she said maybe it's time you try another approach with your daughter.

 

Instead of alienating her and her husband, embrace her and be, in the very least, courteous to him.

 

She will come to terms with how she wants to deal with the man she is married to in time - and perhaps her behavior of late is part of that. Really, all you can do is let her live her life with this man. If things are as terrible as you say, and if she is that intelligent, she will probably make a change in the future.

 

As for now, she needs your love and support, not your disapproval.

[Jenny in Atl]

No advice, just :grouphug:.

[Kathleen in VA]

No advice here - just prayers. I'm so sorry you are having to endure such pain.:grouphug:

[kalanamak]

This is so miserable, but I like to always look for the glimmer in things: hopefully he is so self-centered he doesn't want any children!! It is much easier to escape without a baby hanging on your arm.

 

I know this will be incredibly hard, in your position I would try very, very hard to "unload" my interactions with her (as in the opposite of a loaded statement). Get casual. No more "talked with her for hours". If she is not religious, no going on about how you are praying for her.

 

Stand up right, square back your shoulders, go on with life and change gears into "chatty" letters. You can edit letters. Phone calls with desperation and tears are not "unloaded". (I'm not saying you are doing those things, I'm giving examples).

 

Start with a *pleasant* weekly letter with what you did, and did you hear about X (something you have in common or she used to be interested in...my mother, the expert in pleasant, sweet letters, sent me newspaper about Lipizzaner horses when I well into my 30s). Send her some seeds from a plant you grew. Send her small, tasteful presents for birthday, anniversary, etc. Treat her as a valued friend whom you respect.

 

THEN, when effluvia hits the fan, she will turn to you as someone who won't make a big scene and make her feel worse. Do all venting, pillow bashing and crying out of sight of her.

 

This is what I would do. Usual disclaimers.

Keep in mind, this is an old story, and many people have lived through it. My parents went to their graves not knowing I stayed with a BF in college 7 extra months until they went on a planned trip up the Amazon, just so they'd be out of the country when I ran and hid from a man who beat me, held a gun to my head, and told me he'd kill my parents. I could cope with being dead, but not with living on if he had killed them. But, as my guy was adored by many, they never had a clue (I think).

HTH

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I agree with Kalanamak and the others who say you have to accept him at some level in order to maintain a friendly relationship with her. She's an adult who has made a choice. The more you push, the harder she'll push back.

 

If you have a woman's shelter nearby with experience in dealing with these difficult situations, they might have some good advice for you as well.

[Remudamom]

This is so miserable, but I like to always look for the glimmer in things: hopefully he is so self-centered he doesn't want any children!! It is much easier to escape without a baby hanging on your arm.

 

I know this will be incredibly hard, in your position I would try very, very hard to "unload" my interactions with her (as in the opposite of a loaded statement). Get casual. No more "talked with her for hours". If she is not religious, no going on about how you are praying for her.

 

Stand up right, square back your shoulders, go on with life and change gears into "chatty" letters. You can edit letters. Phone calls with desperation and tears are not "unloaded". (I'm not saying you are doing those things, I'm giving examples).

 

Start with a *pleasant* weekly letter with what you did, and did you hear about X (something you have in common or she used to be interested in...my mother, the expert in pleasant, sweet letters, sent me newspaper about Lipizzaner horses when I well into my 30s). Send her some seeds from a plant you grew. Send her small, tasteful presents for birthday, anniversary, etc. Treat her as a valued friend whom you respect.

 

THEN, when effluvia hits the fan, she will turn to you as someone who won't make a big scene and make her feel worse. Do all venting, pillow bashing and crying out of sight of her.

 

 

 

I agree. My heart aches for you. My mom and one of my sisters are estranged. It's painful beyond words. My other sister finally left an abusive husband. Things can work out.

[bkpan]

First, :grouphug: this sounds like a terrible situation for you and I'm so very sorry you are going through it.

 

I know it is difficult but she is married to him whether you like it or not. She is an adult and she chose this and since there is nothing you can do about it, you should embrace him as your son-in-law. I would call her and tell her so. Tell her you respect her, you would like to get to know her husband more and promise you will try not to not be so judgemental of him.

 

Talk to your daughter as a friend, someone she can lean on and stop telling her about her mistakes and putting down her family. Maybe if she didn't think you were against her family she wouldn't be pushing you away. No adult wants their parents or someone else telling them the person they married is a mistake. The only one who can figure that out is herself.

 

And you have nothing to lose by trying another approach. Your approach now is not working so please, maybe see a counselor or maybe someone here can recommend a good book for you.

 

Good luck, and :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Though it may be difficult to accept, he is her husband. You don't approve, but (very gently) at this point it is not about you. Your love for your dd is soo evident in your post, and knowing my personality, I can't say that I wouldn't be reacting very similar to how you are.

 

BUT, from a distance, I can tell you that if you want to keep a relationship with your dd, you MUST accept her husband (I'm talking w/in reason her, not a truly abusive situation). Marriage is sacred, and she is now his wife. She will (and should) stand by him, support him, and yes, defend him against her own parents. She does have a new family, but I wouldn't believe that she wants to lose her first family. It sounds as if she is reacting against perceived attacks against her dh.

 

My stepmother has had to deal with this with her daughters. She has chosen, once they were married, to fully support her children's families, despite her very real reservations. It sounds as if your dd could really use the support of her parents. I hope that you find the strength to provide that support for her. That is how I understand we truly love our adult children. You and your dh can grieve your loss of your dreams for your dd, but do it privately, and put on that loving and supportive face for your dd's sake. Never trash her dh. You can always find something kind to say.

 

Besides, you do not know the future. Your s-i-l may turn around to be something very different from what you see now. And your loving support may help to bring about that change.

 

If nothing else, I think that it IS commendable that he has taken on the responsibility of raising his younger sister. That alone, may speak of his character in a way that is hard to recognize right now. He did not have to care for her - he has stepped up to that responsibility. I hope that there is very real healing in your family. HTH

 

Kim

[Blueridge]

I am reading each post again and again. I started to write another 'book' but I don't need to burden you too much. I guess it just comes down to the pain associated with 'accepting' him. I've tried for a year to just talk to her, about her, and she always wants to bring him up in the conversation. I have had to subconsciously pretend he just wasn't there...to keep from saying 'we told you so'. Last week we had a wonderful talk, and she shared all sorts of things, just like old times. :) I was careful with my every word. He floats from 1 crummy job to another, and she has $25.00 each week for groceries for the 3 of them. Of course he still needs to buy 2 cases of cigarettes each week. She now works nights as a waitress. My mother and sister live near her, and she keeps borrowing money from them. Very embarrassing. She will never be the same. Neither will we. I know we are all products of our choices, and yet the parent inside me can't let go of the grief of her 'unraveling'. All that talent, all that incredible sweetness and giving spirit. Wasted on someone like him. He won't change because he sees himself as incredibly brilliant and strong because of all his life experiences. Sheesh. She had other opportunities with young men at school, but never took them seriously because she told me she was so focused on her studies. She said he 'convinced' her. Frightening. It could have been so different. I keep praying that she will see. We don't want to be 'right'. But everything we warned her of has indeed happened. I just want to stay curled up in my shell and hide. So if she learned anything at home, it was surely faithfulness and tenacity. Now if she can just find the wisdom that goes along with those...Just know how much your thoughts have blessed me today. Now I need to go hug my other 3 daughters~

[GailV]

I've observed a situation a bit like this as a younger sibling -- my older brother cut himself off from the family years and years ago, soon after his marriage.

 

As the youngest in the family I saw a bit more of my parents' reaction than the other kids did. Although Mom and Dad didn't parade things in front of me, I was aware of the oceans of tears and the private prayers.

 

Eventually they took the approach Kalanamak outlines -- keep the lines of communication open without strings attached.

 

And now it's 30 years later. I can't say we're one big happy family -- I think my brother is too unstable for that to ever be the case -- but at least we know where he is and how he's doing. He actually moved back in with Mom and Dad for several months a few years back. I think he knows they are his anchor, and there for him as long as they're alive.

[Renee in NC]

I am reading each post again and again. I started to write another 'book' but I don't need to burden you too much. I guess it just comes down to the pain associated with 'accepting' him. I've tried for a year to just talk to her, about her, and she always wants to bring him up in the conversation. I have had to subconsciously pretend he just wasn't there...to keep from saying 'we told you so'. Last week we had a wonderful talk, and she shared all sorts of things, just like old times. :) I was careful with my every word. He floats from 1 crummy job to another, and she has $25.00 each week for groceries for the 3 of them. Of course he still needs to buy 2 cases of cigarettes each week. She now works nights as a waitress. My mother and sister live near her, and she keeps borrowing money from them. Very embarrassing. She will never be the same. Neither will we. I know we are all products of our choices, and yet the parent inside me can't let go of the grief of her 'unraveling'. All that talent, all that incredible sweetness and giving spirit. Wasted on someone like him. He won't change because he sees himself as incredibly brilliant and strong because of all his life experiences. Sheesh. She had other opportunities with young men at school, but never took them seriously because she told me she was so focused on her studies. She said he 'convinced' her. Frightening. It could have been so different. I keep praying that she will see. We don't want to be 'right'. But everything we warned her of has indeed happened. I just want to stay curled up in my shell and hide. So if she learned anything at home, it was surely faithfulness and tenacity. Now if she can just find the wisdom that goes along with those...Just know how much your thoughts have blessed me today. Now I need to go hug my other 3 daughters~

 

It would be better if her mother and sister would quit loaning her money.;) I know, trust me. In the long run it doesn't help.

 

Let me say this - my family did NOT like my dh when we married. They were very unhappy about the situation and felt the same way you do - that he was bringing me down.

 

That was 11 years ago and things are completely opposite. He did mostly grow up and they adore him - he's a good father to our dc and a good dh to me. Things can change.

[OnTheBrink]

Though it may be difficult to accept, he is her husband. You don't approve, but (very gently) at this point it is not about you. Your love for your dd is soo evident in your post, and knowing my personality, I can't say that I wouldn't be reacting very similar to how you are.

 

BUT, from a distance, I can tell you that if you want to keep a relationship with your dd, you MUST accept her husband (I'm talking w/in reason her, not a truly abusive situation). Marriage is sacred, and she is now his wife. She will (and should) stand by him, support him, and yes, defend him against her own parents. She does have a new family, but I wouldn't believe that she wants to lose her first family. It sounds as if she is reacting against perceived attacks against her dh.

 

My stepmother has had to deal with this with her daughters. She has chosen, once they were married, to fully support her children's families, despite her very real reservations. It sounds as if your dd could really use the support of her parents. I hope that you find the strength to provide that support for her. That is how I understand we truly love our adult children. You and your dh can grieve your loss of your dreams for your dd, but do it privately, and put on that loving and supportive face for your dd's sake. Never trash her dh. You can always find something kind to say.

 

Besides, you do not know the future. Your s-i-l may turn around to be something very different from what you see now. And your loving support may help to bring about that change.

 

If nothing else, I think that it IS commendable that he has taken on the responsibility of raising his younger sister. That alone, may speak of his character in a way that is hard to recognize right now. He did not have to care for her - he has stepped up to that responsibility. I hope that there is very real healing in your family. HTH

 

Kim

 

I agree with this. And, something else to consider, if your dd knows you disapprove, she won't come to you when things get really bad. It's really good to keep the lines of communication open and positive so she will come to you when she needs you, and she will need you.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this. My ds has made some stupid choices that I want to bonk him on the head over, but with the wise counsel of my pastor and a few elders, I've did share my concerns with him, but then let it go. Beating him over the head wasn't going to work, so I would rather have my ds in my life and get along with him (while praying fervently) than have him alienated and view me as the enemy.

 

I'll pray for your dd and for you as well. Hopefully, she'll see the errors in judgment she's made and will lean on you for support.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Joanne]

{{{Many tender hugs}}}

 

It might help you to read Verbal Abuse by Patricia Evans. Also Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It's true that she's the one who needs the books, but they will help you understand why she stays and that she's not the girl/woman you knew.

 

When my oldest sister was in her late teens, she ran off to FL (we were in NJ) to live with a known "bad guy". This was particularly hard on my parents as she was at risk, young, the guy was awful, she'd be away geographically and she'd be living with someone instead of married (it was the 70's). My parents were devastated. My Dad basically wanted to disown her. But my mom handled this one well, with grace and wisdom. She limited contact so as to minimize the "crap" she'd put up with but she let my sister know that she'd be welcome home in the event that she need a safe place.

 

While your dd knows, on some level, she's hurting, it's very likely she doesn't see the dysfunction completely. She doesn't know what she doesn't know.

 

A "we love you, adore you and want the best for you" email is in order. Tell her that, but that you won't accept unhealthy words or communication from her. You're done fighting, you're done making her feel like she has to choose and you welcome positive, chatty email and calls from her.

 

And then make sure, on your end, you have excellent self care.

 

The book Boundaries might also help you. You might even try some of Melody Beattie's books to help you find a healthy place with regard to how much influence you can and should have in her life and how to find peace regardless of her choices.

[sagira]

:grouphug:

[Gretchen in NJ]

First, :grouphug: this sounds like a terrible situation for you and I'm so very sorry you are going through it.

 

I know it is difficult but she is married to him whether you like it or not. She is an adult and she chose this and since there is nothing you can do about it, you should embrace him as your son-in-law. I would call her and tell her so. Tell her you respect her, you would like to get to know her husband more and promise you will try not to not be so judgemental of him.

 

Talk to your daughter as a friend, someone she can lean on and stop telling her about her mistakes and putting down her family. Maybe if she didn't think you were against her family she wouldn't be pushing you away. No adult wants their parents or someone else telling them the person they married is a mistake. The only one who can figure that out is herself.

 

And you have nothing to lose by trying another approach. Your approach now is not working so please, maybe see a counselor or maybe someone here can recommend a good book for you.

 

Good luck, and :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I was thinking the same thing as Jumping in Puddles. I can tell you my mother has pushed all of her adult daughters away for one reason or another. She dislikes both of my sister's dh. I married her favorite sil, but have messed up else where according to her.:glare: Most of all, it is because we have made choices that she has disagreed with. It is very sad and does not make for a happy family life.:grouphug:

[sleepy]

Oh, my. I don't have any advice to offer, but I'm so sorry you're in pain...:grouphug:

[ChrisN in NY]

Nothing to add, just tons of prayers and lots of :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: for you.

[*anj*]

 

THEN, when effluvia hits the fan, she will turn to you as someone who won't make a big scene and make her feel worse. Do all venting, pillow bashing and crying out of sight of her.

 

I think that Kalanamak has given you excellent counsel. I can't add a thing.:grouphug:

[Blueridge]

You ladies just radiate well trained minds. You are so kind and wise. Thank you. It has been exhausting, these last few days. I have indeed tried the loving approach of 'remember we are here, we are a safe place, our door is always open and you can always count on us when times get rough'. She is so raw and emotional all the time now, she took even those statements said with my love as a threat. She raises her voice, screaming she will never leave him...never. I wasn't asking her to. I just desperately need to keep our communication lines open and she wants them closed. She isn't satisfied with my 'how are things down your neck of the woods?' emails or my calls with no real topic. She wants more. She wants us to like him. Respect him. Tell her how wonderful he is. I just can't go that far. I would wretch. So I keep my talking with her *safe* and it just isn't enough to satisfy her. I feel like an awful person who never says the right thing. My mother and sister both gave them warm welcomes into their home after they were married, and kept telling me to 'give him a chance'...I was just quiet then...and now they have washed their hands of them saying how awful it is. I am in pain here that I can't go and rescue her. She doesn't think she needs rescuing. I know all things work together for ultimate good. Right now I can't imagine what that will be. I am embarrassed that I am worrying about myself now, but I am getting old and tired and I have run out of patience. I am pondering all you have advised me. I believe things will get better one day. I have to believe that. Again, a million thanks to you all~

[elegantlion]

First of all :grouphug: for your hurting.

 

I have been that girl. I got married at 19 to a guy like that. What my mom did was crucial in the strength of our relationship today.

 

She accepted him, warts and all. She did not try to tell us what to do, but allowed us to live out the consequences of our decisions. She kept the doors of communication open between us and when it all hit the fan 3 years later my parents were there for me.

 

The marriage ended in divorce by mutual choice. I moved back home with my parents and they allowed me to be me. I've been remarried now for almost 16 years to a decent guy and my parents have still stood beside us through thick and thin.

 

As an adult the actions of your dd should not embarass you. If she is borrowing money, that should reflect on her and her alone. People can change and at somepoint this guy may realize the error of his way and become better or he may drive your dd away. Either way, I know the love you have for dd would want her to come to you in a time of need.

 

If she thinks you don't accept or love her for where she is at right now there is little chance of her coming back to you when she needs someone to comfort her without judgment.

 

My mom is one of my best friends today and it because of her being able to hold her tongue during those trying times. I know she prayed a lot for me.

 

I know this isn't easy. :grouphug:

[Amy in Orlando]

:grouphug: I can only imagine how hard this must be for you. I'll keep you and your dd in my prayers.

[Joanne]

Blueridge,

 

I want to add something, and I hope I can wrap words around it to help you.

 

Her choices as a young adult do not mean you failed, made the wrong choices or did something wrong.

 

There is not a direct line from parenting choices/decisions to the choices of our kids. It's not a linear progression. Her choices are not a commentary on the quality of your parenting, your home, the goals and objectives you embraced.

 

Please, please don't allow this situation to *further* hurt you by taking on responsibility that is not yours.

 

{{many more hugs}}

[Ahwahnee]

:grouphug:

I have watched friends go through this many times. You are getting great advice here.

 

One of the things I've observed is that my friends have acted as enablers. For the sake of their children, they have bailed losers out of jail, and given money to help with difficult times. This has delayed decisions the children need to make, which prolonged the agony for all.

 

I'm praying for you and your daughter.

[elizabeth]

Is there any chance that there is a type of substance abuse happening or some other type of problem that your dd might equate with shame ??I aonly ask as we are living this nightmare with my sibling same behaviour as your dd but I happen to know that behind the scenes there is cocaine/alcohol involved as well. I am so sorry that your family is faced with this but as a human being with a great deal of professional experience as well, I must raise this question for your consideration of the issues. Best of luck with this very painful situation.

[Joanne]

Is there any chance that there is a type of substance abuse happening or some other type of problem that your dd might equate with shame ??I aonly ask as we are living this nightmare with my sibling same behaviour as your dd but I happen to know that behind the scenes there is cocaine/alcohol involved as well. I am so sorry that your family is faced with this but as a human being with a great deal of professional experience as well, I must raise this question for your consideration of the issues. Best of luck with this very painful situation.

 

:iagree: The situation has many elements in common with living as an active addict/alcoholic.

[Blueridge]

We have reason to believe he may have had a drug problem in his past (maybe present?). We know he drinks. I imagine that is where the paycheck goes. She may be joining in to keep the peace? It surely goes outside her character, but now that she acts like a different person, who knows. We are a non-smoking, non-drinking, quiet and plain-vanilla sort of family, so it is surreal to think about. It's just all so sad. I just hurt about it every time I think about her, which is every day. We wanted so much happiness for her. I will keep writing her sweet notes, but she will, most likely, continue to write back with harsh, shameful words. Yes, she does appear to be 'full of shame'. Poor, poor, lost daughter of mine. I love her so.

[Joanne]

We have reason to believe he may have had a drug problem in his past (maybe present?). We know he drinks. I imagine that is where the paycheck goes. She may be joining in to keep the peace? It surely goes outside her character, but now that she acts like a different person, who knows. We are a non-smoking, non-drinking, quiet and plain-vanilla sort of family, so it is surreal to think about. It's just all so sad. I just hurt about it every time I think about her, which is every day. We wanted so much happiness for her. I will keep writing her sweet notes, but she will, most likely, continue to write back with harsh, shameful words. Yes, she does appear to be 'full of shame'. Poor, poor, lost daughter of mine. I love her so.

 

Given that is your family background, are you at all familiar with the disease of alcoholism and its effects? Do you need/want some ideas for where you can read to gain understanding? Not to fix her (or him) but so that you might understand better the dynamics?

[Blueridge]

He grew up in an alcoholic family. He was actually the 'black sheep' because he did not drink. He has scars from the memories of all the fussing and fighting to last a lifetime. He also stood by his father's bedside as he gasped his last breath, dying from lung cancer. His dad was a lifelong smoker, too. So I do have these experiences. But dd knows these facts. How could she be led astray by this? Leaves me bewildered. :confused:

[lovemyboys]

Though it may be difficult to accept, he is her husband.

 

Besides, you do not know the future. Your s-i-l may turn around to be something very different from what you see now. And your loving support may help to bring about that change.

 

If nothing else, I think that it IS commendable that he has taken on the responsibility of raising his younger sister. That alone, may speak of his character in a way that is hard to recognize right now. He did not have to care for her - he has stepped up to that responsibility. I hope that there is very real healing in your family. HTH

 

 

For us, it was a sister-in-law. My sister and mother had all kinds of ideas about who my only brother should and would marry. He had other ideas. Though he dated the "ideal" girls, he chose differently.

 

It was hard and took years and much pain, but the extended family has come around and the family has grown. Db must have seen qualities that were difficult for the rest of us to see, but my sil was a real diamond in the rough. Actually, I think their difficult early years (financial, family relations, baby) helped to mold them into the mature and wise people that they are now.

 

For better or worse, I always tried to remember that this was the woman my brother chose 20 years ago. And in our case, it's turned out to be a lovely better.

 

Hoping that your situation may become a "better" too. For now, though, you've gotten great advice to be accepting and as supportive as possible so that dd can find her way, knowing that she has your love, no matter what.

:grouphug:

[rafiki]

.

[JennifersLost]

I didn't have time to read all the replies, so I may be repeating someone else's advice, but I've BEEN there - on the other side.

 

Believe me when I say she is not doing anything deliberately - in fact, she's probably completely miserable but is following her morals (the ones you taught her!) to stand by her decision, to keep by her vows, to "do the right thing".

 

She believes that the situation can be fixed. That SHE can fix it, if only she can somehow identify the exactly right thing to do. Meanwhile, that man is probably twisting everything and playing a game that makes everything she does wrong, until she can't trust herself anymore.

 

So here's what to do:

 

1. Be there. Be unflinchingly there. Visit. Call weekly. Show up for any occasion you can. Pay for them to visit you (and include him). Let him know that you are NOT going away. Kill him with kindness.

 

2. Do NOT give them financial aid. Buy her gifts that will make her life easier if she needs them. Pay for classes. Pay for clothes for her to wear to work. Pay for health care and dental care. Support every decision that she makes that will someday make her life better. Anything you give to her (money or things) may be sold for cash for him, so try to pay for things that can't be sold. Let this guy get the message that YOU will not be supporting him. And, unfortunately if you make life too comfortable for dd, you will prolong all of this.

 

3. Try to get the book "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" into her hands. It can't come from you. Maybe it could come from a female peer of hers. I don't know how to sneakily do this, but it could spark some understanding in her. If there isn't a sneaky way to get it to her, hold onto it for the day the whole house of cards crumbles, because it will.

 

4. Understand in your heart of hearts that this is your daughter - she's still in there. The core lovely person you are talking about is there and she will survive this. Someday she will have enough. She will decide to leave. Or she will begin to show signs of a backbone and HE will get out while the getting's good. He will find another woman, cheat on your dd, and leave when he's got the new one "hooked".

 

5. Find ways to let her know about the problems this man and his sister face. It took me probably over a decade AFTER I split up with my ex (who was just the same kind of peach you're describing here) to REALLy understand addiction and aspergers, the two issues that define my ex's behavior. And I'm a graduate of an Ivy League university with a homelife that puts the Cleavers to shame. Many, many women fall for this game. Many smart women. She has to understand that none of this is about her and that she's not a failure. That this man's problems are unfixable, she owes him nothing and that it's time to move on. Maybe you could either make up or find a real person in a similar situation and start calling her for "advice". Describe to her situations you think might be like hers, and then a few calls later describe how that person dealt with them (in a "healthy" way). Then create an "escape plan" for this fictional/real person - because that was something that kept me from leaving my ex for years - I didn't know what I'd do without him. He'd made me doubt everything about myself.

 

You can't force any of this. You have to stay the course. I resented the heck out of my parents during my whole ordeal. I hated making up all those stories and covering for my ex's bad behavior. I had nothing to say when my parents called - what could I say? But they kept calling. They kept paying for things that were really important. THey kept sending me plane tickets. In the end I began to talk about leaving my ex and as soon as he knew the party was over he dumped me before I could dump him.

 

This is so hard. I wish I could sit your daughter down and swap stories. Just know that she will snap back true to herself someday. I really believe that.

[Blueridge]

Bless your hearts, all of you who so willingly shared, not only your wisdom, but your pain as well. My heart goes out to you today. Thank you for making me feel stronger and hopeful...

[Nakia]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I will be praying for your family!

 

And I just want to add that all the advice and wisdom shared in this post has been beautiful to read!

[beansprouts]

I have been following this thread all day. I do not have any wisdom to offer, but my heart goes out to you and your daughter. :grouphug:

[Denise in IN]

:grouphug: Blueridge, I can't imagine how painful this is for you. Others have given great advice, so I'll just give hugs and prayers.

[Mom to Aly]

My sister, who was almost deaf when she was young, has a speech impediment and is hard of hearing, was in a relationship with a man for years, who suddenly dumped her and married someone else (his boss's daughter). My sister was already horribly shy, with low self esteem, and this killed her. She was introduced to a man a couple of years later, after not dating at all, and ended up marrying him.

 

This man is someone none of us can stand. He has no social graces, is rude, obnoxious, horrible, horrible, horrible, and has robbed her of her true compassion and kindness, well, most of it. She has become like him, self centered, a "me" person, which is not at all how she was. Before she married him we all sat down and tried to talk her out of it, and she cried and cried, then married him anyway. We still don't know if he knows, but that was 15 years ago.

 

We realized, a long time ago, if we wanted her in our lives, we had to accept him. So we do. He is horrible to my daughter, who has been terrified of him, even as a baby, would cry whenever he got near her. He speaks, we cringe, inwardly. She goes nowhere without him. He has never really held a job. She works very hard. She has always wanted children, desperately. He doesn't--they have no kids, never will. He has changed, somewhat. As long as you offer no resistance whatsoever (meaning, totally put up with him), he does try. Is often tolerable. She has gotten to a place where I'd say she is happy, he has gotten better, much better than we ever thought he'd be. The main thing is, she is in our lives, and we love her. We would not want to let her go. Ever.

 

I think you have a choice to make. Put up with this man, "welcome" him into your family, put up with whatever you have to, and be there for your daughter, because she needs you, more than you can imagine. Be there for her, help her through what are going to be very difficult times, and, if she ever wakes up and does leave him, be there then; if you aren't in touch with her, she may never do it, she may be too embarrassed to ask for help. But don't go into this counting on that.

 

If you want your daughter in your life, you have to forget anything else, and accept her and her choices, knowing what will happen if you buck and fight. She is an adult, has made her choice, probably would have if you had been there or not, so stop beating yourself up over that. She had a reason for choosing him, one that you can't understand. Now you have to decide if you will be there for her; and, if she has children, for them.

[Mary in NJ]

I feel your pain. We are currently going through a difficult situation with our adult daughter. I never thought that my most trying times as a mother, would be when my children were grown.

[Catherine]

in danger. People CAN change. He might, with your loving support.

 

I know is one of my boys did this, I would be very very sad, scared, worried, everything. But none of that helps either of you. Don't express your fears and worries. Tell her you love her, apologize for judging, say only what you can honestly say that is positive.

 

No situation is all bad! My friend was HATED by her IL's for years, because she was not Catholic. Fast forward a decade, and she is the favorite DIL-because she was patient with them, showed them she was a good mom and wife, a honest, reliable DIL who loved their son. The other DILs have all revealed their petty, dishonest and unkind hearts, and the superficial reasons they initially were favored have grown less important.

 

I can imagine how hard it must be to see your daughter's potential seemingly thrown away, but as others have said, grieve privately and show her a brave, accepting face. No one knows the future.

 

Supportively, Catherine

[mcconnellboys]

I am sorry. As with all addictions, she must hit bottom, decide that she wants help, and ask for help before you can help her. All you can do until then is pray for her fervently. Pray that when she hits bottom, she will think to call on God to help her - because He will. I went down her road once upon a time and when I looked into the barrel of a gun and asked myself if I would live or die over a man who so obviously did not love me at all, God called me back into life and saved me.

 

I think to preserve your own sanity, perhaps you should just withdraw from attempting to communicate. She knows how to reach you if she wants to talk. She knows what you think. Just pray. I know it is hard to wait until then,

[mamakven]

i agree with what some of the others have said... and having a friend in a similar circumstance, stuck in a place where her parents didn't support her choice of husband, he ended up cheating on her and she's very stuck, i think she might feel like there's an "I told you so" situation on the horizon, if they do separate, kwim? the pride thing might keep her away from you... i agree that you should do whatever you can to be cordial to her dh so that you don't play right into what her dh is probably telling her about YOU, does that make sense?? at any rate, i'm SO sorry you have to go through this, what a horrible horrible situation :grouphug: