Janie Grace Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 My ds7 told me today that one of his friends always asks to see his "private parts" when my son is at his house. This boy also wants to show ds his. I asked if ds had ever done so and he said he did, once. There was no touching. Since then, he has always said "no." This kid clearly knows it's not allowed because ds says he asks very quietly, when the mom is not in the room. Once he even wrote it down on a piece of paper to be sure the mom wouldn't hear. Ds says he asks every time he is over. I am not freaking out, but I'm concerned. I wish my son had told me about this right away (it came out in a conversation I try to have regularly -- but obviously not regularly enough -- casually discussing private parts, who is allowed to see them, etc). I am glad he has been telling this kid "no" and is comfortable sticking up for himself. Surprisingly, he has still been eager to go and play with this boy; it doesn't seem like it has felt threatening or upsetting to him, just kind of random and annoying that the kid keeps asking. I'll be calling the mom to give her a heads up. Any tips on what to say/not say? This is my question... is this kind of persistence just a curious kid? Or is there reason to think there is something else going on with this boy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Huh. When I saw the thread preview, I was going to pop in and say that based on my experience, it's a normal, curious-kid thing. But then I read your whole post, and the child's acknowledgement of the taboo and the persistence of it does actually concern me. I don't have the background to diagnose anything, but it does immediately raise red flags for me. I would tell the mom, as gently as I could. It's a hard call to make no matter what, but I would say something like, "Hey, mom-friend, I wanted to call and let you know about something DS has mentioned to me a few times now..." :grouphug: Good for your DS for knowing what to say and (not) do and for having the courage to stand up to his friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Well, your son's response (it not bothering him much, just sort of thinking it is weird etc) is totally typical. The fact that the boy is obviously wanting to avoid his mom knowing is a bit concerning, but don't jump to any major huge conclusions. Sometimes kids just do stuff like that. Normal 'show me yours' type play is just that, play. It is giggly, it is funny (I mean, really, bodies are funny!) and no one is coerced or forced. It is very normal and then kids move on. Sometimes kids get stuck, especially if they are shamed or someone makes it a big deal. I would just remind your son that private parts are private and he is allowed to ask you to the friend to stop. And maybe don't let them play unsupervised for a couple months. If this is typical kids behaviour it will be forgotten soon. If the boy gets mad at your son for not complying, or threatens to not be his friend etc then you might have to stop seeing him for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Just curiosity probably, though 7 seems a little old for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 One time? normal curiosity Repeatedly asking and sneaking (which suggests that he's gotten in trouble for asking others before)? Huge red flag for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 my curiosity is to wonder if this kid was molested at some time previously. the persistence is a flag for me. or does he come from a very ultra conservative dress from head to toe family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 my curiosity is to wonder if this kid was molested at some time previously. the persistence is a flag for me. or does he come from a very ultra conservative dress from head to toe family? No, not a conservative family... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 It sounds like molestation to me too. Behavior like that it typical of victims. Kids trying to make sense of what happened/is happening to them. I wouldn't feel comfortable allowing my child back in that home, especially since this boy might be providing a gateway to your son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBeth Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would see it as a red flag, and I would probably put some limits on the kids' play times. I would also definitely mention it to the mom. It may be an awkward conversation, but what if something happened and this is how he is showing it and his parents have no idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 My 5 y/o son is in love with his penis. He's obsessed with it. We have frequent discussions about not talking about it or touching it while around others and not letting others see or touch it. If my son were the friend, I would DEFINITELY want a call to say my kid had been doing this because it is not okay. Please call the Mom and tell her what's going on. I personally would not let my son be with this other kid unsupervised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I agree that once or even twice is normal, but the persistence in asking is troubling. I applaud you for telling the mom. It's a touchy subject and not everyone would tell the other parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Um, NOT normal to persist-- Definitely a red flag that the kiddo (not yours) has experienced something inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If he asks, but then moves on without being upset, I'd think it was more of a curiosity issue. How often do they see each other? How long has this been going on? I think the fact that your DS is not upset is a sign that there's no creepy factor, at least not yet. I think it is 80% curiosity and 20% a red flag, so I wouldn't dismiss this entirely. I'd make sure the playdates were in my house, but I wouldn't think "molestation" at this point either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would be inclined to say normal - I can remember those types of "games" around that age (a bit younger, I think, but not much). I'll caveat by saying my concern would be if the boy can't be distracted by "no - let's go play soccer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I think it's a red flag that he does it a lot but caution you not to jump to conclusions. Talk to the mom. Set whatever ground rules you feel are best given the situation. He could be doing it on the sly (compulsive behavior?) knowing that he's been told it's inappropriate. If that is the case, the mom may have thought this issue was settled before and probably would want to know. Some kids with developmental issues stay in this stage longer or experience it at a different age. And those developmental issues may not be evident to you unless you were told about them. If the mom dismisses you, I would state that it can be a red flag for child abuse (not necessarily that she's the abuser), and that you're sorry it makes her uncomfortable. You just want to be sure she realizes it can be a red flag (akin to "I just want you to know that your child is playing in the busy street"). Some parents are very naïve and others get a "deer in the headlights" feeling about such things. I would be embarrassed, but I would want to know. The boy who's asking could also have a friend that asks him this a lot, and he's doing it because he's trying to work through it. He may have an inkling it's inappropriate, but maybe the parents haven't brought it up because they don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 once or twice, totally normal, but if it is a consistent prolonged thing, absolutely a red flag. it may not mean he is being molested mind you, he might have a friend who is acting like this toward him and this is how he is responding, or it could mean his dad isn't so careful in hiding the playboys. but whatever the cause, its not good I remember these games went in cycles around school but there were always a couple of kids who took it further or began the cycle by being the first to introduce it and the last to continue once everyone else got bored. in hindsight, I know for a fact three of these kids were abused and suspect the other two could well have been. (5 kids spread over 3 individual 'incidences' at different times with different kids, not ask from the same time and school) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If he asks, but then moves on without being upset, I'd think it was more of a curiosity issue. How often do they see each other? How long has this been going on? I think the fact that your DS is not upset is a sign that there's no creepy factor, at least not yet. I think it is 80% curiosity and 20% a red flag, so I wouldn't dismiss this entirely. I'd make sure the playdates were in my house, but I wouldn't think "molestation" at this point either. I would agree. Mostly curiosity with hints of red flag. Maybe schedule the play times together at your house or public places for a while. It is great your son has been discussing it with you. Keep the communication open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Add me to the "sneaky & repetitive is concerning" camp. I'd expect that sort of "body wonderment" behavior a little younger than 7, though it could remain later for some children. By 7 my guys were masters of their own parts, were starting to get embarrassed at the topic, that sort of thing. They thought it was cool to be able to relieve themselves outdoors conveniently, but they were past the little boy comparing it/showing it off stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd say it's "within normal, but requires parenting" -- I don't envy you the awkward call. I'd also not be allowing that playmate to be play unsupervised / semi-supervised with mine. As far as the call. I'd start with actually saying, "This is going to be one of those really awkward mom-to-mom calls. I'm so sorry to have to bring this up." Then move on to plenty of opening material of the genre, "We're both moms of boys, isn't it a crazy funny adventure?" This allows her to have a momentary silent meltdown "Oh! What's he done??? Crud! I really like that family. I hope it isn't ruined!" Then say, "Here's the thing -- and I don't think it's abnormal, it just is something a boy's parents should be told... If it was my son, I'd want to know. So, um, my son said to me that your so quite often whispers to him about private parts. My son says this happens often, and that your son is asking to see my son's private parts. I'm sorry. I know that takes a minute to think about. My son let me know that one time they did show each other, but he says he's been saying no about it since then. My son is OK, and I think yours is probably OK too. This is just so awkward to have to tell you! Boy stuff!" Be prepared for her to basically drop out if the conversation (90% likely) so you will have to do all the talking, with rambly pauses, and eventually try to end the call in a cheery way. She's thinking, and there isn't a script for her! (10% possibility is that she will blame, deny, become angry, or all 3. In which case you can say thjngs like, "I see this has taken you by surprise. I was just letting you know what my son said to me. You don't have to worry about it if you don't want to. I just didn't want to keep it to myself. Sorry, I hope we can talk later." And end the call.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Is it possible to have this conversation in person rather than over the phone? It is probably boy silliness, but on the outside chance that there's more to it (the child is being abused or exposed to p--n), her facial reactions could be telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well, I called her and it went really well. She didn't freak out or get defensive, but she was definitely not happy that her son has been doing this. She wasn't dismissive and didn't try to blow it off. And she asked me, "Okay, so what would you do? What would you say?" (I have four sons and this is her only boy.) I don't think she is used to having these kinds of talks with her boy yet. I told her that I'd let him know he isn't in trouble but that the asking to see others' privates needs to stop. I encouraged her to go over the "rules" (only parents and doctors) and explain that those parts are private. I did mention that sometimes persistence like this can be the result of exposure (molestation/porn), so I'd carefully draw him out to make sure there isn't more to it. She chalked it up to curiosity (doesn't have brothers, wonders how other boys look). She was definitely wanting to make sure we're still "good" with each other -- my son is her son's favorite friend and I know she'd hate to lose the friendship. I guess her son is a bit of a wild child at school but he does well over here (he's a "pack animal" in her words, and seems to fit in with our big family of boys). I will definitely be keeping a close eye on it and encouraged my son to not just say "no" but to say something like "and stop asking me that or I won't play with you anymore." Some kind of ultimatum so this kid knows to drop it. Soooo... I think we're good. Next playdate is scheduled for here. I think I'll be okay with my son going over there, though I have to admit I'm a bit uneasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Good! That went really well. Nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sounds like you handled the situation perfectly, and I'm glad to hear the other mom was receptive and that she took it as well as she did. Honestly, I think the mom's reaction was entirely the result of how well you initiated and handled the conversation. Excellent job -- it was a tough topic to address! :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilma Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Good on you for having that potentially awkward conversation! And she sounds like a keeper as a friend - really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 So, the mom and I were chatting today and she casually mentioned that this child sleeps in her bed every night (single mom, so it's just two of them in bed). She was laughing about how "touchy-feely" he is and how he always wants her to be shirtless so that they can snuggle skin-to-skin (he sleeps naked too). I am not sure if they are completely nude or not -- maybe it's just shirtless. I might be a total prude, but does it strike you as odd that a 6-year-old boy would sleep (partly) naked with his (partly) naked mom? She also shared that he doesn't wear underwear because he gets er*ctions frequently and the fabric bothers him. I just wanted to add these two pieces of information to my previous inquiry to see if it changes anyone's impression of this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelly in IL Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It just feels a little "off" even if it is innocent. Kinda gives me the heebie jeebies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Sorry but... Ewwww. That, to me, is completely inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Um, weird. Sounds like a hyper-sexualized kid with a mom who doesn't enforce boundries. Some serious reconsideration about 'personal space' is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It sounds like molestation to me too. Behavior like that it typical of victims. Kids trying to make sense of what happened/is happening to them. I wouldn't feel comfortable allowing my child back in that home, especially since this boy might be providing a gateway to your son. This. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running the race Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It feels "off" to me, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It certainly strikes me as odd. :eek: And because it doesn't seem like the mom is a close friend of yours, I find her comments extra-weird and TMI... and I can't help but wonder what else goes on in her home, considering that she seems to consider the things she talked about to be normal. Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned gal, but I wouldn't have anything more to do with that family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ummm...weeeeird. I'm not a prude at all, and I'm amazed that she doesn't consider that inappropriate. I'd really worry about that family and keep mine away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TianXiaXueXiao Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So, the mom and I were chatting today and she casually mentioned that this child sleeps in her bed every night (single mom, so it's just two of them in bed). She was laughing about how "touchy-feely" he is and how he always wants her to be shirtless so that they can snuggle skin-to-skin (he sleeps naked too). I am not sure if they are completely nude or not -- maybe it's just shirtless. I might be a total prude, but does it strike you as odd that a 6-year-old boy would sleep (partly) naked with his (partly) naked mom? She also shared that he doesn't wear underwear because he gets er*ctions frequently and the fabric bothers him. I just wanted to add these two pieces of information to my previous inquiry to see if it changes anyone's impression of this situation. This is a huge red flag. I would report this immediately if I were in your shoes. She is testing you out to see if you will hold her accountable. I'm very familiar with sex abuse mentality trying to pass as benign and normal. Please report this admission. She just dropped the responsiblity square in your lap! I'm so sick and sad for this child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh wow, very inappropriate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So, the mom and I were chatting today and she casually mentioned that this child sleeps in her bed every night (single mom, so it's just two of them in bed). She was laughing about how "touchy-feely" he is and how he always wants her to be shirtless so that they can snuggle skin-to-skin (he sleeps naked too). I am not sure if they are completely nude or not -- maybe it's just shirtless. I might be a total prude, but does it strike you as odd that a 6-year-old boy would sleep (partly) naked with his (partly) naked mom? She also shared that he doesn't wear underwear because he gets er*ctions frequently and the fabric bothers him. I just wanted to add these two pieces of information to my previous inquiry to see if it changes anyone's impression of this situation. Okay. I just read this. Yes, I do think that is very odd. I don't want to tell you what to do. You know the situation & the family (and your own ds)... I would be *very* cautious about my son being in that home w/o me. It seems like at the very least she is setting her ds up for issues by catering to (encouraging?) his maybe innocent curiosities. It's also possible he has had some really bad experiences (maybe at school?) already - in which case she's definitely not helping him... I would be very concerned about what my son might be exposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TianXiaXueXiao Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Please, OP. Please don't look the other way on this. What you have described is clearly abuse. Lord have mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So, the mom and I were chatting today and she casually mentioned that this child sleeps in her bed every night (single mom, so it's just two of them in bed). She was laughing about how "touchy-feely" he is and how he always wants her to be shirtless so that they can snuggle skin-to-skin (he sleeps naked too). I am not sure if they are completely nude or not -- maybe it's just shirtless. I might be a total prude, but does it strike you as odd that a 6-year-old boy would sleep (partly) naked with his (partly) naked mom? She also shared that he doesn't wear underwear because he gets er*ctions frequently and the fabric bothers him. I just wanted to add these two pieces of information to my previous inquiry to see if it changes anyone's impression of this situation. It has been a while since I had a boy that age in the house but her saying he doesn't wear underwear due to "frequent" ...... seems a bit off for a 6 year old. Occ, yes, but frequent. Add in the sleeping arrangements and it does seem off a bit. Maybe I read too much into this but as a foster parent I have worked with kids whose mothers crossed the boundaries with boys and this seems possibly headed that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So, the mom and I were chatting today and she casually mentioned that this child sleeps in her bed every night (single mom, so it's just two of them in bed). She was laughing about how "touchy-feely" he is and how he always wants her to be shirtless so that they can snuggle skin-to-skin (he sleeps naked too). I am not sure if they are completely nude or not -- maybe it's just shirtless. I might be a total prude, but does it strike you as odd that a 6-year-old boy would sleep (partly) naked with his (partly) naked mom? She also shared that he doesn't wear underwear because he gets er*ctions frequently and the fabric bothers him. I just wanted to add these two pieces of information to my previous inquiry to see if it changes anyone's impression of this situation. I decided to reply before reading other replies. We are a co-sleeping family, so my initial reaction was that it is absolutely normal to co-sleep with a 6 yo. I'm not sure about some of the details you mentioned, though. My DD6 still sleeps with us. Recently DD12 was sick, and DH slept with her on the futon so he could monitor her when she was throwing up in her bucket. DS9 sleeps with us occasionally as well. We are always fully clothed in work out clothes, not even pajamas. I wouldn't be sleeping topless with a 6yo, but if my 6yo wanted to sleep naked, I'd have no problem with that. I wouldn't be comfortable for DS9 to be naked in bed with me. But when he was 6? I'm not sure. We are pretty relaxed about nudity, and all of my kids have seen DH and myself naked at some point or another, but I wouldn't want to sleep in the nude with my children. I'd be fine with DS9 was shirtless, but I wouldn't be shirtless myself. Something about the way it was phrased seems a bit odd to me. However, I can't be sure whether it is your interpretation / attitude / worry that are showing. I would never mention my kid's erections to anyone--this is private. The rest of the conversation is a bit off to me as well, but it will also depend on how the conversation came about. ETA: So basically as a co-sleeping parent who is comfortable with nudity and who nursed her kids for a very (*very*) extended period of time, I'd still be seeing possible red flags. Not in any particular detail on its own, and not even the majority of the details on their own, but all of them together...yeah...Something is a bit off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 It has been a while since I had a boy that age in the house but her saying he doesn't wear underwear due to "frequent" ...... seems a bit off for a 6 year old. Occ, yes, but frequent. Add in the sleeping arrangements and it does seem off a bit. Maybe I read too much into this but as a foster parent I have worked with kids whose mothers crossed the boundaries with boys and this seems possibly headed that way. I guess I am really naive; I didn't realize mothers crossing boundaries with boys was something that happened. :( Ugh. First order of business for me is to casually draw out my ds about his interactions with this mom. After that... I don't know what to do. She is definitely someone who is more blunt/open than most, and lacking in modesty (she'd pull up her shirt to show you a surgery scar or something without batting an eye). Abusive... I just don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I guess I hesitate to say this is something you should report b/c you said you are still probably fine with your son going over there. Honestly, if someone told me the things she told you, I would talk it over with Dh (just to make sure I wasn't overreacting) and report it as possible abuse. Abuse is a pretty hefty charge. I would hate to falsely accuse someone... And yet there are so many *horrible* things happening to children these days!!! So...just knowing what you've said that she told you, I would say it's abuse & should be reported. OTOH, you are apparently still comfortable to some extent with the situation... Hard to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I would not go so far as to call what she has described abuse. In some family cultures this is quite ok, my mother used to walk around topless and I admit that if my oldest DD comes into my bed because of a nightmare I don't suddenly get up and dressed (however, she is 3, a girl, and I wear underwear to bed. I suppose in the next few years I'll start making sure to wear PJs, they're just so uncomfortable atm being pregnant). Showering together was never much of a big deal either. I think my brother was 7 or 8 before mum began being more aware of modesty with him. (though I think she stopped showering with him around 4 or 5) Having said that, the snuggling, her obliging his desire for her to be topless, letting him go without underwear... not necessarily abuse but definitely not a good thing to be doing. She is not teaching him boundaries, or teaching him about personal space and privacy. She should not be choosing to go topless because he requested it, she should be explaining that it is not appropriate. She sounds as if she has no boundaries for bodily contact, and whether because of her or another cause he has an unusually high interest and low concept of the boundaries himself. It's also possible SHE was abused as a child but does not acknowledge or accept it. If so, she may simply be doing what she truly thinks is normal because it was always normal for her. I know, as a victim of abuse myself, there are times my husband has to explain to me that something I assume is normal actually isn't and I need to change my thought patterns. I have seen victims of abuse act 'abusively' completely unintentionally and unknowingly because they didn't realize. On the other hand, I also know children who were sexually abused by their mothers, and this may be politically incorrect to say, but a woman without a partner is more likely to 'blur the line' than one who is married or in a long term relationship. This situation needs a lot of delicacy, and to do anything about it is, unfortunately, probably going to mean ending the friendship. Is there a third party you can involve who knows her irl? Do you have enough 'strange' behavior to go to CPS (and are you the only one she has told this to? Could it be tracked to you if you reported anonymously?). You have managed to find yourself in a very sticky situation, and with just enough information to be concerned without enough to know for sure what the right thing to do is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I guess I hesitate to say this is something you should report b/c you said you are still probably fine with your son going over there. Honestly, if someone told me the things she told you, I would talk it over with Dh (just to make sure I wasn't overreacting) and report it as possible abuse. Abuse is a pretty hefty charge. I would hate to falsely accuse someone... And yet there are so many *horrible* things happening to children these days!!! So...just knowing what you've said that she told you, I would say it's abuse & should be reported. OTOH, you are apparently still comfortable to some extent with the situation... Hard to read. I was still comfortable after I talked to her the first time about her son's behavior. I am not sure I am still comfortable after today's admissions. I'm honestly feeling pretty UNcomfortable at this point. Yes, I need to talk to my dh. Haven't had a chance yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I guess I am really naive; I didn't realize mothers crossing boundaries with boys was something that happened. :( If this is all that is making you hesitate to report then you need to know that yes, yes, YES it does happen. Society mostly only talks about men touching little girls, and sometimes boys. But I have a close friend who's mother abused her sexually whenever her father was away (he was a pilot) and I have a male friend who's mother went 'all the way', so to speak, in crossing that line when he was 8 and it continued for many years thereafter. In many ways, being abused by a woman, especially a mother, is SO much worse for the victim because it's not socially accepted. People joke that the boys were 'lucky' for someone with 'experience' to show them. People don't believe that teenage boys are actually unwilling parties (through manipulation, not force). The psychology of it is seriously complicated, but these boys often suffer worse than girls abused by fathers (not that abuse should be rated, but with the dismissal society tends to place on it, and it's focus on female sexual abuse victims, I feel it needs to be stated how serious male victim sexual abuse is) I am still not saying that this woman is sexually abusing her son. But please, look at what you are seeing and hearing with the knowledge that it is a very real thing which happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I don't know if it crosses the line into abuse, but she does not have adequate social boundaries at the very least. No way in heck would my kids be going to her house unsupervised. As this is at least the second major interaction that has caused you to go WHOA, WHAT?!?!, I'd be looking at whether you should distance your family from this one. Don't ignore your gut. Maybe what they're doing is fine and dandy for their family, but it obviously is not for yours. Listen to that voice inside you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wow. I don't envy you for sure! If it *is* an abusive situation, she will be watching you closely, waiting to see what you will do with the information she's given you. I'm not experienced in counseling these kind of situations, so I want to be very careful about giving you strong advice one way or the other. Your dh may have a better sense, too - especially if he knows the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 I would not go so far as to call what she has described abuse. In some family cultures this is quite ok, my mother used to walk around topless and I admit that if my oldest DD comes into my bed because of a nightmare I don't suddenly get up and dressed (however, she is 3, a girl, and I wear underwear to bed. I suppose in the next few years I'll start making sure to wear PJs, they're just so uncomfortable atm being pregnant). Showering together was never much of a big deal either. I think my brother was 7 or 8 before mum began being more aware of modesty with him. (though I think she stopped showering with him around 4 or 5) Having said that, the snuggling, her obliging his desire for her to be topless, letting him go without underwear... not necessarily abuse but definitely not a good thing to be doing. She is not teaching him boundaries, or teaching him about personal space and privacy. She should not be choosing to go topless because he requested it, she should be explaining that it is not appropriate. She sounds as if she has no boundaries for bodily contact, and whether because of her or another cause he has an unusually high interest and low concept of the boundaries himself. It's also possible SHE was abused as a child but does not acknowledge or accept it. If so, she may simply be doing what she truly thinks is normal because it was always normal for her. I know, as a victim of abuse myself, there are times my husband has to explain to me that something I assume is normal actually isn't and I need to change my thought patterns. I have seen victims of abuse act 'abusively' completely unintentionally and unknowingly because they didn't realize. On the other hand, I also know children who were sexually abused by their mothers, and this may be politically incorrect to say, but a woman without a partner is more likely to 'blur the line' than one who is married or in a long term relationship. This situation needs a lot of delicacy, and to do anything about it is, unfortunately, probably going to mean ending the friendship. Is there a third party you can involve who knows her irl? Do you have enough 'strange' behavior to go to CPS (and are you the only one she has told this to? Could it be tracked to you if you reported anonymously?). You have managed to find yourself in a very sticky situation, and with just enough information to be concerned without enough to know for sure what the right thing to do is. I don't know details of her background but I do know she had a very painful childhood. She has alluded to this but has not gone into detail. I'd say some kind of abuse is possible if not likely (based on what she has said). I will say that both the mother and father of this boy do NOT teach boundaries. They have to coerce him into doing what they want -- there is no sense of "no, because it's not appropriate" or "yes, because I said so" in these parenting relationships. There is really no third part except her ex-dh. They are on very good terms. We are friends with him also. I cannot imagine involving him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So, the mom and I were chatting today and she casually mentioned that this child sleeps in her bed every night (single mom, so it's just two of them in bed). She was laughing about how "touchy-feely" he is and how he always wants her to be shirtless so that they can snuggle skin-to-skin (he sleeps naked too). I am not sure if they are completely nude or not -- maybe it's just shirtless. I might be a total prude, but does it strike you as odd that a 6-year-old boy would sleep (partly) naked with his (partly) naked mom? She also shared that he doesn't wear underwear because he gets er*ctions frequently and the fabric bothers him. I just wanted to add these two pieces of information to my previous inquiry to see if it changes anyone's impression of this situation. I was reading along, kinda skimming, thinking everything had been handled okay... until I got to this post... um, WHAT? This is one of the weirdest things I've ever heard! This is not normal. ?!?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 On the other hand, I also know children who were sexually abused by their mothers, and this may be politically incorrect to say, but a woman without a partner is more likely to 'blur the line' than one who is married or in a long term relationship. is.. This is a highly inappropriate and unsubstantiated and egregious claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 OP, she said that her son is asking her to sleep topless. Did she say how she dealt with this? Did she oblige? I don't think asking is a problem, but her sleeping topless just because he asked could be a problem. I think it is quite normal for kids not to wear underwear. It came up in several conversations with different friends (not discussing erections, mind you!) so I know my DD and DS are not the only ones who go commando 80% of the time. I'm not sure how common are erections in a 6yo...I only observed it once in DS, but he is not a "penis oriented" kid either. Some are, and it could be quite normal as well. Also, if you find yourself to be anti-nudity, you might not be reacting objectively to what she shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 To me it sounds more like she is treating him as an infant/toddler, rather than sexualizing him on purpose. It also sounds like she lacks any "healthy" baseline ideas... She doesn't know if this is wrong or not, and I think she is trying the manoeuvre known as, "Casually reveal it to someone and see if they are shocked." -- I think she chose you because you had already talked about little boy issues, and she probably doesn't have a lot of choices. Therefore, I think if you have a chance to say, "Really? I think he's way too old for that. It's probably time for having clothing between you, and I think he needs you to take a firm line about daily underwear. I don't think you are doing him any favours by letting him have his own way with this. Time for him to grow up." -- Something like that is probably the sort of support she is looking for, raising a boy with no one to check-in with about these personal issues. She has no frame if reference. I think she is looking for one. Maybe there is some documentation you could share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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