Nart Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 They don't wear socks in my house unless they want to, dd usually wears house shoes. When they go to their house they throw on some slip on shoes w/out socks, the trip takes maybe 5 min so it is just a matter of keeping their feet covered and warm enough for the few minutes it takes to go between the door to the car. Is it that she doesn't like that your kids wear shoes without socks? Or she doesn't like bare feet? Maybe she doesn't realize it is just for the car ride. In the middle is summer does she expect your kids to wear sandals or flip flops with socks to her house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I totally agree she sounds like a controlling nut. I probably would not send them over without being there myself, and very infrequent short visits at that. Life is just too short. She probably has no idea how far from normal she is and is probably incapable of grasping it. My MIL thinks we are WAY too over protective because we home school. She says the most clueless things and I think she was a irresponsible parent, although I doubt she was much more irresponsible than many other parents were in the 70's. We disagree about what is careful parenting. Her way caused my dh some awful grief that we are trying to spare our own kids, but she takes our parenting style as a personal judgement. And so it is, in a very small way. Not to the degree that she takes it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmarm Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 That's creepy! No way should they be peeping on a 9 year old's shower! Holy cats. Why do they shower there??? To Me: It doesn't matter so much that they shower at the grandparents house, that isn't so unusual. My 4yo niece showers at our place just for convenience if they have stayed late in the afternoon or had dinner at our place. My nephews eat and shower here at times. They also have a couple of changes of clothes that live here too. It matters that Grammy (and/or Grappy?) feel the need/desire to micromanage the kids in the domain of personal hygiene/competence to the point of disrespecting their development and maturation as well as invading their privacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 It is funny as talking about this has made me think of all the other crazy things. When it happens it really annoys me and I try to move past it and then whenever some new crazy rule comes up it reminds me of all the other things. I could go on and on with the little things, like toddlers not sitting in grass, regular lawn grass mind you, as grass is sharp and they will cut themselves. She tries to determine what clothes they wear as play clothes and dress clothes, at home. I love, love, love my mother but we were in line for food at a cafeteria yesterday and bless her, she was telling me to get more protein on my tray and reminded me several times, in front of my kids, my DH and the cafeteria workers. Seriously, Mom, I've been making my own food choices for decades. I can handle this... :) How does your DH feel? And what is his relationship with them like (sorry if that is too personal a question; just trying to get the big picture, 'cause that would definitely factor in for me since I would not want to damage my relationship with my DH over in-law issues that are just really irritating and odd, not truly abusive). I know it is different and frequently a lot more uncomfortable with in-laws, but unless they are truly abusive, or causing a lot of emotional issues with your kids, if you still find value in continuing a relationship with them, and with keeping family peace, I'd just find ways to meditate (a LOT) and keep dealing as diplomatically as possible. Step in where needed, but this will obviously continue as long at they are alive (and may get worse as the years wear on) and unless you can find a way not to get irritated you are looking at years and years of escalating irritation. I really don't think you can fix this, just do damage control when things get out of hand and try and find ways within yourself to ignore and move on so you can stay sane. :) Best wishes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I'll be in the minority & say that I would not do anything about the sock issue at all. After all, Grandma told one of your kids, who mentioned it to you, but honestly it sounds ludicrous. I would think to myself "Grandma isn't THAT crazy. DS must have misheard". Then see what happens next time at Grandma's. If this is really an issue to her, she really should be telling you, not her grandkids. I mean, seriously, "You can't come unless you've got socks on" is ridiculous, barring some medical issue. What does SHE value more? Her grandkids or... sock-covered feet? Hopefully she'll bring it up to you next time & you can actually dialog about the issue. "I would like them to have socks on because they look cold to me". "Oh, thanks for your concern, grandma, that's so sweet of you. But they really aren't cold. If they were, they would put socks on themselves without prompting. We're so glad that they are independent in that way." Hopefully, through conversation it becomes obvious to BOTH parties which side is being petty. Also, I would be very explicit with my kids that none of them should be showering there anymore. I would let grandma know as well and would be honest with her about why if she asked. Also, I would tell her that she didn't need to check anyone's wiping unless somebody asked for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 To Me: It doesn't matter so much that they shower at the grandparents house, that isn't so unusual. My 4yo niece showers at our place just for convenience if they have stayed late in the afternoon or had dinner at our place. My nephews eat and shower here at times. They also have a couple of changes of clothes that live here too. It matters that Grammy (and/or Grappy?) feel the need/desire to micromanage the kids in the domain of personal hygiene/competence to the point of disrespecting their development and maturation as well as invading their privacy. Mine shower at the grandparents' houses if they have spent the night. But they would not be showering there or be there unattended AT ALL if the grandparents were watching them shower or wipe their butts. That's why I was asking why the kids are showering there. My kids would (rightfully!) freak over that kind of inappropriate invasion of privacy, and I wouldn't subject them to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srs Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If this is your MIL, what does your husband say? I got tired of my father's developmentally inappropriate rules for his grandchildren, so I told him we wouldn't be visiting anymore, and why. If it were just socks, I wouldn't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Oh, they also supervised my son wiping his butt well past the point that I did here. I get the impression that it is partly due to us hs'ing I think she has this odd idea that our kids need more direction or something because they are sheltered. I think the main part is her controlling though. My kids are way more independent and capable than most kids their age but she doesn't seem to grasp this. :blink: Ok...that's just...weird... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I just asked my son again if Papa is in the bathroom when he showers and he told me that he doesn't stay in there the whole time but he comes in and out. My husband thinks it is weird but he is not as annoyed by it as I am. I cannot help but imagine how I would feel personally and find it highly offensive. I know dh and I are very close with ds but he still yet likes his privacy even with us, he is however very much the easy-going type though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Sounds entertaining to me. I'm guessing somebody over there has a very sensitive nose. My kids wear socks pretty much all the time when we leave the house. My parents never said anything that I can recall about socks (they aren't the type really). But if they did, it would be because the kids' feet get black from their kitchen floor. (Sorry but it's true.) I don't think it's that unusual for older people to fuss about keeping little ones warm. It was part of our culture when they were young. You should see how they bundle up little kids in warm countries every time the temperature dips below 80, LOL. I thought my internationally adopted kids were going to have a fit when they found out how cold it is in their new home, but it didn't faze them at all. Just go along with it and tell your kids this is how people did things in "the old days." The time spent with their grandparents is precious and fleeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I just asked my son again if Papa is in the bathroom when he showers and he told me that he doesn't stay in there the whole time but he comes in and out. My husband thinks it is weird but he is not as annoyed by it as I am. I cannot help but imagine how I would feel personally and find it highly offensive. I know dh and I are very close with ds but he still yet likes his privacy even with us, he is however very much the easy-going type though. I think it's weird. I have occasionally popped my head in the bathroom when my 10 yr-old is showering but only for special circumstances - he was sick & I wanted to make sure he was OK, etc. Actually, that's the same criteria for my 8 & 6 yr-olds as well. I even let my 3 yr-old shower with my 8 yr-old without my intervention. He is amazingly able to get his hair washed without screaming which I am completely unable to do. I'm with you on this - they're asking too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Yeah, don't focus on the socks, focus on how inappropriate it is to watch a 9 yo shower. Agreed. I wouldn't choose a battle over the sock rule, but I would about bathroom/shower supervision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't understand the fuss if Grandpa goes in and out of the bathroom while the 9yo is showering. Maybe Grandpa has stuff to do in *his* bathroom, and presumably the shower curtain/door is closed. But more than that, don't kids have to shower in front of their coaches and classmates when they go to middle / high school (for gym / sports)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The socks are a very minor thing, but the showering and butt-wiping are a hill I would die on. There would be no more unsupervised visits if that kind of nonsense was going on. You need to protect your children's bodily privacy. They are too young to handle this issue on their own and it is probably much more scarring than you realize. The fact that ds feels comfortable barring you and dh from his showers, but can't say anything to grandpa says a lot about the power dynamic going on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The socks are a very minor thing, but the showering and butt-wiping are a hill I would die on. There would be no more unsupervised visits if that kind of nonsense was going on. You need to protect your children's bodily privacy. They are too young to handle this issue on their own and it is probably much more scarring than you realize. The fact that ds feels comfortable barring you and dh from his showers, but can't say anything to grandpa says a lot about the power dynamic going on here. Yes, well-said. This isn't about what GP's motives are at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Agreed. I wouldn't choose a battle over the sock rule, but I would about bathroom/shower supervision. Yeah, but if she's going to bring it up, I'd make it a larger conversation. I mean, the end result might still be the kids will be wearing socks because that's reasonable, but if I was going to bring it up, I'd make it a conversation about boundaries in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't understand the fuss if Grandpa goes in and out of the bathroom while the 9yo is showering. Maybe Grandpa has stuff to do in *his* bathroom, and presumably the shower curtain/door is closed. But more than that, don't kids have to shower in front of their coaches and classmates when they go to middle / high school (for gym / sports)? That NEVER happened in the schools I attended or any out here at all. If students shower it is in the individual, curtained stalls. There is no group showers. THe only place that happens it is prison. Nasty and weird. A coach supervising a shower would get the coach arrested for sexual assualt of a minor. It is not okay. I can not believe you think it is okay for adults to be supervising older kids showering. Even in my home with only 1 bathroom if someone is in the shower/bath we wait for them to finish or if a child just can't hold it, they knock, wait for a response to be sure the person has the curtain fully closed and isn't drying off or something and then open the door to go in. There is no in and out of a bathroom when someone is in it past preschool years when the child is old enough to safely bath unattended. With my littlest one, gramma may fill the tub, and she will come in with a big towel to wrap dd up in and help her out of the tub (it is a bigf jaccuzzi tub) if she bathes there, but she certainly isn't in and out. Though if one of the kids has been in their a long time she might call down the hall asking if they need anything or if they are okay. But still not just go in and out. SHowering, toileting etc are private functions and that privacy needs to be respected no matter where it occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 But more than that, don't kids have to shower in front of their coaches and classmates when they go to middle / high school (for gym / sports)? No, no they don't. ??? That's just weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 We had group showers in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't understand the fuss if Grandpa goes in and out of the bathroom while the 9yo is showering. Maybe Grandpa has stuff to do in *his* bathroom, and presumably the shower curtain/door is closed. But more than that, don't kids have to shower in front of their coaches and classmates when they go to middle / high school (for gym / sports)? But that's not what she said. She said they are specifically supervising them to check that they're washing to a certain standard. I mean, if the child is okay with the gp's coming in to grab a towel, get a toothbrush, etc. then that's one thing. We do that here and the kids are fine with it, but the gps are watching them. And if a child wants privacy and they're old enough to get it, that should be respected. I'm not assuming a lewd motive at all, but this is about basic respect. It is infantilizing and insulting to stand there watching a 9 yo shower and directing him to scrub certain places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Totally. I almost posted about the fingernail clipping on here before I just decided I'd have them take care of it themselves to appease Granny. They also supervise baths/showers and I find that very offensive as well, especially for a 9yo. They were making my 9yo (and everyone else) use a sippy cup, not due to spillage mind you. I finally put the kabosh on that during the holidays. I can understand it for the 4yo and MAYBE the 6(almost) 7 year old but I'm absolutely not going along with making my 9 yo use a baby cup. She is just generally controlling and infantilizes the kids majorly. Her house, her rules only goes so far. That point being watching a 9 yr old shower. (She is actually in the bathroom while the child is in the shower) No way! That is a matter of privacy, and that is where I step in. I can put up with a lot with family and grandmas' oddities - family is very important to me - but that crosses the line. I would need to have a talk with her. Oh, this is your mil, correct? Maybe dh needs to talk to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ Seriously??!! You have no plans to respect the privacy of your 9 yr old? When exactly do you plan to begin? When do they get to determine that their body is their own and does not belong to anyone regardless of the authority they have in their life? the more I see you post about how you raise your kids, the more concern I have over the way they are being raised. Children having privacy to shower without people barging in, should not be seen as a power play by the parents/grandparents. Behaving thusly just shows a complete and utter disrespect for them as people, and regardless of age they are still people that deserve to have their privacy and bodily functions respected as their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I don't understand the fuss if Grandpa goes in and out of the bathroom while the 9yo is showering. Maybe Grandpa has stuff to do in *his* bathroom, and presumably the shower curtain/door is closed. She said the grandparents were supervising the showers to make sure they are doing it correctly, not just going in and out of the bathroom to get something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ At what age do your dds have the right to shower by themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ I'm with you on that one. We have one bathroom. No one in our family can expect to take a bath or shower and never have someone else in the room. We do tell the kids they should notify us before they go to shower/bathe so that everyone has a chance to use the bathroom if needed, but if they forget, then chances are someone might come in. It's not like we are drawing back the curtain and ogling one another. And even if we did catch someone in the buff ... well, we all have naked bodies under our clothes, so there's no point acting like it's shocking. (We don't parade around naked, but we don't act horrified if we catch a glimpse.) I think that, with grandparents, there is a big difference in perception about kids and nudity. We have been raised with the idea that any time we see a naked kid past toddlerhood it's potentially abusive. The older generation was not raised that way. I can't imagine it ever occurring to my 70-ish mother that it could be considered potentially abusive if she saw an under-10 kid nude. I think that only when a kid's body began developing physically would she realize that privacy was an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 But that's not what she said. She said they are specifically supervising them to check that they're washing to a certain standard. I mean, if the child is okay with the gp's coming in to grab a towel, get a toothbrush, etc. then that's one thing. We do that here and the kids are fine with it, but the gps are watching them. And if a child wants privacy and they're old enough to get it, that should be respected. I'm not assuming a lewd motive at all, but this is about basic respect. It is infantilizing and insulting to stand there watching a 9 yo shower and directing him to scrub certain places. From the back-and-forth in the posts, it sounds to me like the younger kids might be supervised/instructed more, but the older is showering alone with the grandpa just coming in & out of the room, not looking him up and down naked. Of course I could be wrong. In my house, you can hear whether the shower water is running. If it's running, the shower door / curtain is closed and you can't see anything. So if the shower is running and the grandparent walks in & out it doesn't make him some kind of loon or pervert. My mother would do it without thinking twice, nor would I think twice about it. And yes, where I grew up we were required to take group showers every day beginning in 7th grade. And the teachers would check to see if you really got wet. I didn't like it, but most of the girls were unfazed. Seeing other people of the same sex in a shower area is not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 We had group showers in school. So did we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I am not certain that everyone is understanding what Soror was posting about the bathroom issues. This isn't grandparents just running in to get something and possibly seeing the child showering, this is grandparents supervising a 9 year old's ability to actually clean themselves effectively (micromanaging them like a very young child). Apparently, that is also why they supervise him cleaning himself after going to the bathroom and why they wanted all of the kids to use sippy cups long after it was no longer age appropriate. This is not a toddler. Mortgages and who owns the house and such are not the issue. It is treating an older child like a 2 year old that seems to be the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 And yes, we had group same sex showers in middle school during P.E. Not very comfortable but it was the norm. However, the coach wasn't coming in to tell us how to effectively clean ourselves, either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Okay. I'm pretty liberal when it comes to nudity, but... Does the child mind having someone supervise/come into the bathroom while showering? Is the child concerned about modesty? If the child does mind, then the child's right to privacy should be respected. One moment I'm reading about modesty, modesty, modesty; the next moment it's okay for a grandparent/parent to walk in and out of the bathroom while the child is showering? This is not a 4 yr old child; the child is 9. I'm confused. I see having one bathroom and the immediate family having to share as completely different than a grandparent supervising a shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If he's that icked out about taking a shower there he might as well take his shower at home. I agree the gps seem to be viewing the kids as if they were younger. It's not worth a family feud, though, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ Whose kid said anything of the kind? Not the OP's. The issue is not that the OP's kids are making unreasonable demands of their grandparents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Next visit- "Why MIL, you never mentioned the socks to me. I thought when DD said something about socks that you had made a joke about socks. As I couldn't imagine any grandmother telling their grandkids they couldn't visit over socks." That is exactly what I would say but I have relatives who if you give a mm they take a foot type thing. I honestly wouldn't go out of my way to make sure the kids are wearing socks. Now if the children have mud caked feet that is a different story. Honestly, this is what I'd do. If it is that important to her, she should bring it up to you herself or just buy some socks to keep at her house, not make it a condition of her grandchildren visiting. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOESOX-Toe-Sox-Yoga-Pilates-Sock-HALF-TOE-BELLA-w-GRIP-UGLY-SWEATER-Free-Ship-/151151545284?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2331558bc4 if these don't put her over the edge, I don't know what will... I love these! Blood is thicker than socks. I'm sorry, I am with Grandma. It irks me when people aren't dressed warmly. I am often cold and I just can't fathom other people being "okay". It is nit-picky and petty of me, I know, and for the most part I try very hard to just leave folks alone. I sincerely do. But...it irks me. HOWEVER, I am more of a compromise-type person. I'd buy a couple of packs of nice socks and keep them at the house for all the grand-kids and insist they wear them when at my place. I can see myself saying something similar in 40ish years. "Put some socks on your feet dear, and your long sleeved shirt too. Its too cold to run around in a t-shirt and no socks." In your case, unless your kids don't like their grandma and would prefer not to see her and your husband doesn't dislike the grandma and would prefer not to see her, I can understand your frustration but I'd just give them socks. It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me, even if I weren't a "cold person". But now you know my cozy little secret. Hm. I wouldn't make it a hill to die on if it were just the sock issue (which it is obviously not from OP's posts later in the thread) but I have a hot potato who would be genuinely uncomfortable being made to wear socks and a long sleeved shirt in a situation like that. I mean, the OP said grandma's house is kept at 80. My little guy would be sweating barefoot and in a tshirt. Actually, in his case I might make it a hill to die on if someone were so insistent on their own perception of "properly dressed" as to make him physically uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 It seems I should have led with the most egregious examples, huh? I just happened to think of the socks because that was the latest incident and I find it all to be varying degrees of the same issue. So, I view the sock rule through that lens. Nudity isn't that big of a deal in our house either, I'm sure we'd shock our more conservative friends with our standards. However, I respect my kids requests for privacy. I do not think that the in-laws mean anything lewd by their behavior. If they were just going in to do something because there was only 1 bathroom and there was a need that would be one thing but they have multiple bathrooms and clear shower doors, they aren't going in there for a need but supervising. I think one should be able to pick their own comfort with nudity. I also find it very insulting that they are treated with so little respect, the nudity is a side issue here. My son doesn't like it and I could tell it made him uncomfortable when I asked him. He is not the type to complain though and it is not something that happens frequently. I don't think it bothers the girls, all us girls still take baths together here, so it doesn't bother me so much for them although I see it as unneeded and controlling for the 6 yo. The overarching issue is that they micromanage the kids and have rules and expectations that are no where near age-appropriate and very controlling. I do try to go by their perception but it is harder with ds as he tends not to complain much even if he is bothered. So far I tend to deal with situations when they come up, ie when they got out the sippy cups at Thanksgiving. Since the bathing hasn't happened lately I had forgot about it until I was just sitting here and trying to think of all the other controlling and weird things they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ So you feel your children have no right to privacy as they get older? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ IMO, teaching a young girl that she has no right to privacy, or to set boundaries regarding her own body even if something makes her uncomfortable, is dangerous. Suggesting that the person who is paying the bills gets to determine how much privacy and bodily autonomy she is entitled to is even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The overarching issue is that they micromanage the kids and have rules and expectations that are no where near age-appropriate and very controlling. Just calling attention to this point in particular, as I think some are missing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Clear shower doors does make it a little weird for the nine-year-old. I'd just have him shower at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mynyel Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Well for me I am with SparklyUnicorn. I'd get the ugliest toe (or toeless) socks I could find. :) Or I would do what I want to ans if G'ma wants the kiddos to do something particular that don't tell the kids to tell me, tell me yourself. It isn't the socks that are irritating, is the the person behind the socks (in the socks?) that is causing the angst. I'd also make sure that showers don't happen over there either. I'd just have them come home first unless I am actually there. As for the comparison to a school gym? Apples and Oranges. This is in a private home, not a public school gym. One has no bearing on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 *snip* My son doesn't like it and I could tell it made him uncomfortable when I asked him. He is not the type to complain though and it is not something that happens frequently. I don't think it bothers the girls, all us girls still take baths together here, so it doesn't bother me so much for them although I see it as unneeded and controlling for the 6 yo. The overarching issue is that they micromanage the kids and have rules and expectations that are no where near age-appropriate and very controlling. I do try to go by their perception but it is harder with ds as he tends not to complain much even if he is bothered. So far I tend to deal with situations when they come up, ie when they got out the sippy cups at Thanksgiving. Since the bathing hasn't happened lately I had forgot about it until I was just sitting here and trying to think of all the other controlling and weird things they do. My oldest son is like this. He's just such an easy-going kid that he doesn't do a good job of handling situations where people overstep or where he is being mistreated. He will even lie and say that he isn't upset about something to avoid causing conflict and hurting people's feelings. It helps to pull him aside privately and assure him that nobody will be angry if he declines to jump on the trampoline with overly-rowdy friends or whatever it is. He has needed lots of coaching on how to be assertive about his preferences and personal boundaries. I feel this is a very important life skill to develop, so we continue to work on it. If your easy-going son is expressing discomfort then I would guess that he's actually very upset about the situation. At this point I think he needs you to intervene. It sounds like there is a power-dynamic with the grandparents, so it's probably too much to ask him to handle this on his own. Long term he probably needs coaching in how to be assertive about personal boundaries, but he needs you to protect him here. And you definitely need to supervise visits until the situation improves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 My grandmother used to have a thing about us touching anything in her house. We were allowed to sit on the couch and that was about it. Seriously. I think elderly people sometimes get controlling because they are afraid to lose control over what little they have. Maybe they are going a little senile, too. The sippy cup thing is so weird. Though my sister recently tried giving my 7-year-olds sippy cups until my other sister told her off. My sister is weird too. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 IMO, teaching a young girl that she has no right to privacy, or to set boundaries regarding her own body even if something makes her uncomfortable, is dangerous. Suggesting that the person who is paying the bills gets to determine how much privacy and bodily autonomy she is entitled to is even worse. Amen to this. I think it's a disturbing attitude to say "I pay the bills, so your personal, basic boundaries and bodily comforts and need for privacy mean nothing." I couldn't disagree more with that attitude, and I am generally about discipline and conservative values, and parents being parents and not "friends". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 If my kid at age 9 told me I wasn't allowed into the bathroom when she was showering, I'd ask her when she took over the mortgage payments. :/ I respect that my children have a right to privacy. My 10 year old son would be beyond mortified if, barring some reason I needed to help him (say his arm was in a cast), I popped in and out of the bathroom while he bathed. Once kids start locking the bathroom door on their own instead of streaking wet and naked into the living room after their baths they are exhibiting a developmentally and culturally normal need for privacy. Why would you need to go in and out of the bathroom while your child was bathing? There will come a day you will find a locked bathroom door instead of a kid calling out for help rinsing their hair. What harm can come from respecting our kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I never said a 9yo has "no right to privacy." I don't think it's age-appropriate for a 9yo to assume complete ownership of the bathroom during a shower, though. Assuming, as is usually the case, that there is a shower door/curtain that people can't see through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 So how do people take showers at the rec center / gym etc. then? Is it not enough to have a shower curtain between you and others of the same gender? Anyway, we probably shouldn't make this about everyone else's home shower rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Wow, Soror, did you realize that a question about socks would explode into a 3 page and climbing thread? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I would stop visits without me. These grandparents sound OCD or otherwise disordered. The nine year old being uncomfortable is enough, what his grandparents are doing is way over the top controlling. I would be direct and say infantilizing kids and observing toilet trips and showers are simply unacceptable. Also some older people think you can catch a cold through bare feet. That is just bad science. Also, I find it really weird for people to be irritated when others don't feel exactly as they do...cold, hot whatever. Isn't that lack of empathy starting to veer into NPD territory?. Not that anyone on the internet can diagnose someone who he or she doesn't know. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Yeah I'm still waiting for that to kick in. It has not happened yet. LOL I guess possibly part of it is DH walks around naked without batting a lash. I don't though. Yeah it kinda came out of nowhere here. One day, he didn't bother closing the door. The next day, the door was locked. We aren't super modest at home either, so it's not like he picked it up from us. But when it happens, I think it is reasonable, provided there is a second bathroom (which is true for us) to not go in to get anything. And even if there isn't a second bathroom, there isn't anything I need in the hall bathroom that I can't wait 10-20 minutes for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 So how do people take showers at the rec center / gym etc. then? Is it not enough to have a shower curtain between you and others of the same gender? Anyway, we probably shouldn't make this about everyone else's home shower rules. even the swimming pool has curtains separating each shower and one to close it off from the front. Same at the gym (the one that has showers, the other does not). I'll have to take pics the next time I am there. showering is private, period. And then there is the separate changing stalls also with curtains so people do not have to openly dress/undress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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