How seriously do you take car seat expiration dates?

[Desert Strawberry]

Insurance covers you even when you are stupid.  Following or not following laws has no bearing on it.  My aunt is in risk management, and the stories she tells about the STUPID things people do (and they still get settlements and pay-outs.)

That may depend on the company. I totalled a car in a very stupid way, my insurance company had a no-questions-asked policy at that time. I made a call, someone came out to confirm the damage, and I got a check. 

Not all companies work that way.

 

Eta: my dh is also in risk management. They pay all kinds of ludicrous claims because it's cheaper than going to court, and they want to maintain a kind image. It has little to do with who is at fault. But not every company feels that way.

[bolt.]

Fascinating.

[Serenade]

Our laws vary widely by state, but laws do not determine liability. Standard practice does. The car seats have expiration dates. The manufacturer clearly warns not to exceed that date. If you choose not to use the product correctly, you are assuming liability.

 

The problem is, many people do not know about the expiration date.  I never heard of this until a few years ago, and I heard it on one of the homeschool forums.  I never, ever heard one of my friends mention it.  Now, I'm an older mom, so I wasn't hanging around with young moms, either, so maybe they are more in the know on this issue.  I was glad when I read about it my younger son was just about to age out of the requirement.  I'm not even sure my seat had an expiration -- I know after I read about it, I looked, and I couldn't find one.  Maybe pediatricians are now telling this to new parents?  I surely hope so.  I'm guessing all the parenting mags have this info, now, too.  However, back when I was reading magazines like Parents and Parenting, I never saw it mentioned.

[Desert Strawberry]

I never heard about until maybe my second kid. But now, yes. It's in all the parenting magazines, online articles, chat boards. I think after we have a kid or 2 we stop keeping up with all of the new parent news.

I know that the expired seat we were given had a manufacture date of 10/01. So at least Evenflo has been marking them for that long.

[zoobie]

Insurance covers you even when you are stupid. Following or not following laws has no bearing on it. My aunt is in risk management, and the stories she tells about the STUPID things people do (and they still get settlements and pay-outs.)

Edited: There's definitely a difference between DUH stupid behaviors and dangerously willful stupid. I bet she has *great* stories of DUH stupid. :)

[Serenade]

 

 

 

I got into a fender bender with no claims about my kids or their seats and I had to provide proof to the cops that the seats were not expired. It was part of the accident paperwork.

 

Now that is interesting.  I was in a fender bender 3 years ago, right before my younger son turned 8, and neither insurance company asked about the expiration date.  Probably a good thing, because I'm guessing it was expired.  This is about the time I first learned that there were expiration dates.

[Kathryn]

I call shinanigans. What about people in wrecks without their seat belts on? Does the insurance company get to say "to bad, so sad" to them?? What about speeders? If I hit someone speeding, does my insurance company not have to pay??

Um, yes, depending on what state you're in. Here's the first site I came to about contributory negligence and comparative fault: http://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/contributory-negligence-comparative-fault-laws-in-all-50-states.pdf

[redsquirrel]

My younger son's current car seat had a big sticker on the seat telling me the expiration date. It is also on the tag that is attached to the seat cover, and it is on a sticker that is on the back. It is also on the front page of the installation book.  The expiration date is molded into the plastic of the seat along with a very clear explanation of what it is. I don't really know how much more clear they could be. My car has a notice to check the expiration date of any car seat in the car manual on the page where it explains LATCH installation.

 

My elder boy is 13, born in 2000 and every single seat I bought for him had a clearly labeled and explained expiration date. It was always easy to find. It has either been molded into the seat or on a big sticker on the back.

[LMA]

In the US, auto insurance pays for medical costs associated with a car accident. Health insurance does not, and you can be required to reimburse your plan if you fraudulently use it after an auto accident or an accident where you are injured on someone's property that should be paid by liability insurance.

 

My state allows some ridiculous $25,000 minimum medical coverage that will not be adequate in a serious accident (especially if multiple people have to share that), so we have high uninsured/ underinsured coverage on our own car insurance.

 

Health insurance does pay for costs after a car accident. I've had all my medical costs paid by my insurance company after I had two car accidents (minor accidents but required hospital tests and follow up care/visits.) The health insurance company will try to get reimbursement from the other party, which is what they attempted to do, but failed to get reimbursement.

[Serenade]

 

 

My elder boy is 13, born in 2000 and every single seat I bought for him had a clearly labeled and explained expiration date. It was always easy to find. It has either been molded into the seat or on a big sticker on the back.

 

 

My older son was also born in 2000 (January), and none of his car seats had that info.  I never bought any of the pricey ones, though -- maybe that is why?  We bought our first seat at Babies R Us, and I know at least one of our seats was bought via a USAA (car insurance) offer.  My mom got that one, but I never recall seeing a date, and I doubt she would have taken it off.  I think the one via USAA was the last one we used, and that was the one where I searched for a date and couldn't find it. I wish I could remember the brand.  Anyhow, I'm glad that this information is now prominent on the seats so that people can't miss it.  Even though my boys are long out of seats, it still kind of gives me the shivers that we never even knew they expired.

[jennynd]

In general, engineers design component consider safety margin and statistic of the material property (considering possibilty of material defect). and usually considering extreme condition,,, (temperature, loading..etc) So, if it deigned for 7 yrs, chances are, you will be fine extend for few months. That been said, I will not play with expiration day if financial is not a issue.

[zoobie]

Health insurance does pay for costs after a car accident. I've had all my medical costs paid by my insurance company after I had two car accidents (minor accidents but required hospital tests and follow up care/visits.) The health insurance company will try to get reimbursement from the other party, which is what they attempted to do, but failed to get reimbursement.

If they failed to get reimbursement, maybe the injuries were not clearly related to the accident. Who knows. Based on my experience from the litigation side of insurance coverage issues, I choose to maintain the highest possible medical coverage through my auto insurance and will not rely on my health insurance to cover potential injuries sustained from car accidents. :)

[redsquirrel]

My older son was also born in 2000 (January), and none of his car seats had that info.  I never bought any of the pricey ones, though -- maybe that is why?  We bought our first seat at Babies R Us, and I know at least one of our seats was bought via a USAA (car insurance) offer.  My mom got that one, but I never recall seeing a date, and I doubt she would have taken it off.  I think the one via USAA was the last one we used, and that was the one where I searched for a date and couldn't find it. I wish I could remember the brand.  Anyhow, I'm glad that this information is now prominent on the seats so that people can't miss it.  Even though my boys are long out of seats, it still kind of gives me the shivers that we never even knew they expired.

 

Our first car seat was purchased at Kmart in May 2000. It was the second cheapest infant seat. It was stamped on the back and it looked like two clocks each with an arrow pointing to numbers. If you didn't know what it was you wouldn't know. All the following seats (the second would have been purchased in 2001) had it very prominently labeled.

 

We only got the Britax seats when we got a new car. I inherited some $$ from my aunt and I was instructed to buy a new car with the money. I included two top of the line car seats in the cost of the car. Before that, I always bought inexpensive ones.

 

Look, I am not a super duper rule follower. And, I totally understand the suspicion that this is about making people buy car seats. If my kid was going to outgrow a car seat within the year and the seat expired within the same year I doubt I would buy a new one for only a few months, kwim? I am always wondering how come car seats expire but our seat belts don't? Why don't we have to take in our cars to have new belts installed? They are made of the same materials and face the same extreme weather challenges of freezing in the winter and baking in the summer.

 

But there is an issue of insurance and this is my kids lives I am talking about. And if I were told that I had to replace my seat belts then I would to that to keep everyone safe.

[Moxie]

Ok, thinking about this some more. My seat belt idea doesn't apply because seatbelts are the law of the land in most states. But, there is no such law about using expired car seats. I just don't believe that that is a valid reason for insurance companies to not pay.

 

And what about the convertible seats that you are supposed to be able to use for years and years? Are they made of better plastic??

 

I'm still not feeling concerned.

[PeacefulChaos]

I have always switched my kids out of infant carrier seats pretty quickly - around 3-5 months.  I never carried them in it past 3 months.

So I borrowed one of those for our last kid.  I'd do that if I were you (and if that's the type of seat they are offering to let you borrow).

Convertible, I'd buy a new one.  That's also what we did with our last kid.  :)

And I stick to the exp. dates pretty seriously.

[wintermom]

I guess if ours doesn't have an expiration date, we shouldn't use it???  I was saving it for grandbabies.

 

Definitely not. Don't save for grandbabies. Destroy the seat so no one else uses it. The thought is nice, but in this case it would be a death trap.

 

I used to work in injury prevention in a program rounding up expired car seats, and it was really scary the old "baby buckets" that some grandparents were saving for their grandchildren. The plastic is too old, technology changes a lot, safety testing, regulations, and standards change.

 

To the OP, I'd invest in a new seat. They are not that expensive, and you don't really know how long you will need it for. The expiry dates on car seats are there for safety reasons. Here are a few reasons according to Canadian Transportation:

 

Manufacturers give an expiry or useful life date because over time:

• frequent use and exposure to sunlight can damage and weaken plastic;
• safe-use labels on the products fade or become hard to read;
• instruction manuals have likely been lost;
• food, cleaners, drinks and other materials that have been spilled or used on webbing, buckles, adjusters and other parts may prevent them from working safely;
• the history or condition of the car seat or booster seat becomes hard to check (was it in a crash, was it stored in a place or in a way that caused damage to parts, etc.?);
• safety regulations and standards may have changed, so safer products may now be on the market; and
• second or subsequent owners may not get product safety recall notices if problems arise.

[redsquirrel]

Ok, thinking about this some more. My seat belt idea doesn't apply because seatbelts are the law of the land in most states. But, there is no such law about using expired car seats. I just don't believe that that is a valid reason for insurance companies to not pay.

 

And what about the convertible seats that you are supposed to be able to use for years and years? Are they made of better plastic??

 

I'm still not feeling concerned.

 

 

I know that my boosters that have a really long expiration date have steel reinforcement inside. They weigh a ton and they cost a fortune. But, my kids are small. My older son didn't outgrow his seat until he was 11. I took off the five point harness when he was 9, but he used the seatbelt until he was 11. I expect it will be the same for my younger boy. He is almost 9 and still using the booster with the 5 point harness. It will expire right around when he is 11.

 

And yes, you are correct that seats with different expiration dates are made from different grades of plastic.  Some last longer than others.

 

http://www.thecarseatlady.com/choosing_a_car_seat/choosing_a_car_seat_2.html

[bolt.]

 

 

I am always wondering how come car seats expire but our seat belts don't? Why don't we have to take in our cars to have new belts installed? They are made of the same materials and face the same extreme weather challenges of freezing in the winter and baking in the summer.

It's not the belts. It's the plastic they go into, through, and around: the shell of the thing. Your car's seat-belts go into steel mechanisms and are bolted to the frame.

 

 

 

And what about the convertible seats that you are supposed to be able to use for years and years? Are they made of better plastic??

Do they make a car seat that is meant to be used from infancy to beyond 7 years old? If so, I suppose they'd have to use better plastic. All of my 'run of the mill' car seats seem  to be 5-7 year plastic. Good conditions may lead to longer plastic-life, but since usage conditions can't be predicted, that's where the limit gets set.

[SKL]

I'm guessing that if the insurance companies are asking about the expiration dates of the seats, that is in case they decide to sue the seat manufacturer, if an injury was caused by a seat not providing the expected protection before the expiration date.  It could also be because they are gathering data to be used for future rating or other purposes.

 

I don't believe most insurance companies refuse to pay based on the insured making a mistake.  The whole point of insurance is to manage the risk of someone (including oneself) making a mistake.  Maybe there are some bare-bones policies out there like that, but I don't believe it is typical.  That said, check with your insurance if you are concerned about this.

[SKL]

And all that "contributory negligence" stuff is about whether you can sue somebody, not whether your insurance company has to pay.  You have a contract with your insurance that says it will pay if an accident happens.  I've never heard of one saying it won't pay if you didn't do xyz.  Well, except for stuff like ramming another car on purpose.  In any case, those exceptions are spelled out in the policy.

[Cammie]

This discusses NJ law but I think it will help people understand what is being discusses regarding comparative negligence and auto insurance:

 

2. Does New Jersey have a law governing Comparative Negligence?

Yes. The statutory cite is New Jersey Statutes Annotated (NJSA) 2A:15-5.2.  Most states have similar laws, but there may be differences in how much or how little a person can be at fault and still collect all or a portion of the damages. New Jersey’s law does not provide specific guidelines or dictate procedures for assessing fault and responsibility. The amount of fault is determined on a case by case basis depending on the circumstances surrounding the incident.

3. What is permitted under the law?

The Comparative Negligence Act permits insurance companies to determine responsibility for an accident in proportion to fault of the involved parties. The insurer will review the facts and investigate then assign a percentage of liability to the parties involved in the accident based on contributing factors. Examples of these factors include such things as, failing to observe and avoid the other vehicle, failing to sound the horn, apply brakes or swerve and/or driver inattention. 

Some terms you may come across when discussing negligence issues with the insurance company are: proximate cause of the collision, meaning the primary reason the accident occurred such as a driver not stopping at a stop sign; greater duty of care, such as a person pulling out of a stop sign having the responsibility to be certain no cars are coming before pulling out; last clear chance to avoid the collision, meaning the person who could have done something to avoid the accident occurring and evasive action, meaning the actions a driver can take to avoid the accident.   

4. How does an insurer determine the degree of negligence?

After reviewing the facts relating to the accident, the claims adjuster will determine the degree of negligence of their insured as compared to the person making the claim. The degree of negligence is stated in terms of a percentage of fault, such as 80% or 50% at fault for the accident.

Documentation that the insurer may consider includes the police report, driver and witness statements, if available, applicable motor vehicle laws and a scene investigation showing the design and configuration of the roadway where the collision occurred.

5. Can I collect from the other driver’s insurance company for my damages if my fault is greater than the other driver’s?

No. Under New Jersey’s Comparative Negligence law, an individual’s fault for the accident cannot be more than the individual from whom damages are sought. Therefore, recovery of damages is permitted when each person in a 2 car accident is 50% at fault, but not if you are more at fault than the other person. The amount of damages paid to you is reduced by the percentage you are considered at fault. In other words, if you were considered 50% at fault for the accident, and had $1,000 in damage to your car, you would be paid $500, or 50% by the other person's insurance company.  If in the same accident you were only considered 10% at fault, you would receive $900 from the other person's insurance company. Also, be aware that your percentage of fault will also be considered when reimbursing you for other accident related costs, such as rental car charges. 

 

[Murphy101]

I never heard about until maybe my second kid. But now, yes. It's in all the parenting magazines, online articles, chat boards. I think after we have a kid or 2 we stop keeping up with all of the new parent news.

I know that the expired seat we were given had a manufacture date of 10/01. So at least Evenflo has been marking them for that long.

I have never heard or read a single word about it except in this thread. I stopped reading/watching/keep up with all the parenting guru crap years ago. Every time I hear something along those lines it seems to just solidify why I stopped. Either it was common sense stuff or it was scare mongering and I'm not interested in either.

 

We were in a "small" wreck. (Totaled their car completely. Did about $5k to my tank. No injuries.) The cop wanted to know the name, birthdate, and seat location of everyone in my vehicle but that's it. He not only didn't ask about car seats, he sure didn't ask about expiration dates. (We have a 2 year old and a 4 year old still in a car seats.) He only asked if my dh and I were buckled. (We were.)

[SKL]

 

This discusses NJ law but I think it will help people understand what is being discusses regarding comparative negligence and auto insurance:

 

5. Can I collect from the other driver’s insurance company for my damages if my fault is greater than the other driver’s?

 

No. Under New Jersey’s Comparative Negligence law, an individual’s fault for the accident cannot be more than the individual from whom damages are sought. Therefore, recovery of damages is permitted when each person in a 2 car accident is 50% at fault, but not if you are more at fault than the other person. The amount of damages paid to you is reduced by the percentage you are considered at fault. In other words, if you were considered 50% at fault for the accident, and had $1,000 in damage to your car, you would be paid $500, or 50% by the other person's insurance company.  If in the same accident you were only considered 10% at fault, you would receive $900 from the other person's insurance company. Also, be aware that your percentage of fault will also be considered when reimbursing you for other accident related costs, such as rental car charges. 

 

But if you have car insurance yourself that would cover those types of damages, your own insurance would cover the costs the other party's insurance doesn't cover, net of deductibles.  The contributory negligence issue is how to break down the costs between two insurance companies, not how to get all of the insurance companies out of paying for mistakes.

[SKL]

Yeah, I was rear-ended in 2011, and nobody asked the expiration date of my kids' car seats either.  The other guy's insurance covered everything with no undue hassle.  They even sent me checks for my kids' and my pain and suffering, even though we didn't end up claiming any medical costs.  (And they reimbursed my replacement car seats.)

[Catwoman]

I'm solidly in the camp that believes that it's not worth using a car seat after its expiration date.

[Dahliarw]

Ok, thinking about this some more. My seat belt idea doesn't apply because seatbelts are the law of the land in most states. But, there is no such law about using expired car seats. I just don't believe that that is a valid reason for insurance companies to not pay.

 

And what about the convertible seats that you are supposed to be able to use for years and years? Are they made of better plastic??

 

I'm still not feeling concerned.

 

Actually, there is a law about expired car seats.  Almost every state law has some sort of statement in it that says children have to be "secured properly" in an appropriate child restraint for certain ages.  Securing a child in an expired seat is not properly securing them (just like using a baby bucket forward facing would not be properly securing the child).

 

As for buckets versus convertibles, all car seats expire in 5-10 years, depending on the seat.  There are none that do not expire.

[Renee in NC]

SIL was in a single car accident, intoxicated, no seat belt. She was seriously injured. She gets nothing from her insurance because she is entirely at fault. Nothing for medical expenses, nothing for the car.

 

Did she have liability only?  Being "at fault" in an accident where you only have liability insurance will not get you a pay out.  Crashing into a tree because you are speeding and lose control will still have a payout if you have collision insurance.

 

Wokers' comp can be the same way.  You can do something really stupid and dangerous at work, but if you are legitimately injured, you will still get paid.

 

If you burn down your house because you leave a pan of oil on the stove on, you will still get an insurance payout.

 

I will agree that different states have different laws.

[Heather in Neverland]

I had no idea seats expire.

Me either. I swear. I have never heard of that until this exact moment. I bought new car seats with each child because my kids are spaced far apart and I got rid of baby stuff after each child, but it was never for expiration dates.

 

Is this new? I've been here nearly 5 years and no one uses any car seats of any kind (we are an anomaly). But I never heard this anywhere before we left 5 years ago.

[NatashainDFW]

An idea as to why you should NEVER use an expired seat:

Crash test of an expired car seat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvCRz7BRAM0

 

Why you shouldn't be checking a car seat on an airplane (buy a seat for your child because they deserve proper safety restraints even though they aren't 2 or older and checking a seat becomes unnecessary)

Car seats being thrown by an airline baggage handler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzmJr1a-BHU

 

Why you shouldn't put an infant carrier on the top of a shopping cart

(Empty) Car seat falls from shopping cart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wzp-8V-vfNg

 

Car Seat laws by state:

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/bystate/index.html

If you are in a state that requires proper use you are breaking the law by using an expired seat.

 

A great place to learn more: www.csftl.org

 

There is a lot of info out there. While there is still some debate about rear facing beyond 2 (recommended minimum age per AAP) there is no debate about expired seats or the potential damage done by checking a seat. Please either borrow from a trusted friend or buy a new seat. Remember that the seat is meant to save your child's life should something terrible happen. Do you really want to risk it?

 

[Soror]

I don't understand that people don't believe car seats expire, really have you never seen old plastic that has gone brittle? Have you not seen how easy it breaks, especially things that are left out in the sun? I know that I'm not as up on things as I was with my first baby but I think it is dangerous to assume that there are no advances in safety that are worthwhile. Perhaps we should go back to the 1950s, maybe we just shouldn't use car seats at all. Each generation wants to hold onto how they grew up and their beliefs as superior and people don't like change but blindly sticking our head in the sand and pretending that new knowledge and advances are impossible is unfathomable to me.

[NatashainDFW]

Yet isn't it amazing all my children survived...   

 

Yet there are many parents whose children have not........ 

[Lizzie in Ma]

I didn't even know they had them!

[clarkacademy]

I went to college with a girl who had to take her insurance to court because the car seat was expired. Here is the rub, she was the one hit by a teen running a red light and here is the big thing THERE WAS NO BABY IN THE SEAT!!!! The teen had no license no insurance or anything but hers was saying since she had an expired seat she was not following the law. Another funny, she had no kids. The seat was being taken to the drama dept of her younger sisters high school to be used as a prop for a doll.

[clarkacademy]

Had no idea.  Bought a car seat in 1995 and used it for the other two children born in 1997 and 2001.  Oh well...  I don't know why in the world I've kept any of the baby stuff.  I think every single thing I own has been recalled or something...   Yet isn't it amazing all my children survived...   Sigh, I'll go throw it out.  It just seems a waste.    But whoever my daughter in law is ( and I'm guessing I won't have one for 5 years and kids for another 10 probably if they follow our lead) will probably have her own stuff she wants me to use.  I know that my inlaws used my stuff, though we did use the high chair from hubby's days...  Guess I'll add to the landfills.

 

Don't throw it out!! Donate to a photographer or to a little kid playing dress up with her dollies look for ways to reuse stuff in a different way. Old cribs have been turned into desks, clothes can be made into quilts or even used as animal bedding

[SKL]

I once made the point that we eschew the unnecessary production of plastic items because, allegedly, plastic lasts for freakin ever.  Remember those infobytes that said a plastic pepsi bottle will still be on earth after the human race is long extinct?  Seriously.  I don't know who's lyin', but somebody is full of kaka.

 

The answer I got when I brought up the "plastic supposedly lasts forever" argument:  "It's not the plastic, it's the seat belts.   They are only gonna last x years."  OK, so why don't the seat belts in my car expire?  It's 12 years old and nobody has ever suggested I need to replace my seatbelts.  Are they telling us they make crappier seatbelts for infants?

 

Or, I've heard it's the padding that expires.  OK, so why not have people replace the padding and keep using the seats?

 

Anyhoo, I am not saying car seats last forever.  I really don't know all the science behind it, and honestly, I don't care.  It isn't that expensive to buy a new car seat, considering it's going to give you many years of use.  But a few months this way or that way should not make a difference.

 

Still not buying the argument that my insurance company won't cover my kid if I make a mistake.  I do understand contributory negligence if raised by another driver's insurance, but even then, can they really argue that it's mostly my fault if THEY plowed into me so hard that my kid went flying?  They can try, but I wouldn't let them get away with it.  If my own insurance contract didn't include those damages, then I'd be in court with the other carrier.  Maybe a judge or jury would get a little angry that someone thinks they can plow into a car and kill/maim people and then blame them for it.

[Caroline]

The plastic lasts forever, it just doesn't keep its strength after being exposed to sunlight and heat. It becomes less plastic (the material property, not the material itself) and more brittle, like glass.

 

I once made the point that we eschew the unnecessary production of plastic items because, allegedly, plastic lasts for freakin ever. Remember those infobytes that said a plastic pepsi bottle will still be on earth after the human race is long extinct? Seriously. I don't know who's lyin', but somebody is full of kaka.

 

The answer I got when I brought up the "plastic supposedly lasts forever" argument: "It's not the plastic, it's the seat belts. They are only gonna last x years." OK, so why don't the seat belts in my car expire? It's 12 years old and nobody has ever suggested I need to replace my seatbelts. Are they telling us they make crappier seatbelts for infants?

 

Or, I've heard it's the padding that expires. OK, so why not have people replace the padding and keep using the seats?

 

Anyhoo, I am not saying car seats last forever. I really don't know all the science behind it, and honestly, I don't care. It isn't that expensive to buy a new car seat, considering it's going to give you many years of use. But a few months this way or that way should not make a difference.

 

Still not buying the argument that my insurance company won't cover my kid if I make a mistake. I do understand contributory negligence if raised by another driver's insurance, but even then, can they really argue that it's mostly my fault if THEY plowed into me so hard that my kid went flying? They can try, but I wouldn't let them get away with it. If my own insurance contract didn't include those damages, then I'd be in court with the other carrier. Maybe a judge or jury would get a little angry that someone thinks they can plow into a car and kill/maim people and then blame them for it.

[vonfirmath]

Possibly. I'll have to look into it. We did buy the Graco Nautilus more recently, for #2 and not #1. That is always an option, too.. eventually buying a second Graco Nautilus so the middle boy can stay in the harness longer. 

 

ACK. The Nautilus is NOT a rear-facing seat. It is "3-in-1" -- Forward Facing harnessed, high back booster, and no-back booster.  It is not a convertible (going both rear-facing and forward-facing). It's a combination. I know it gets advertised badly because of the "3-in-1" aspect.

[unsinkable]

Anyone else remember the days when carseats didn't have Proper Names?

 

Just me?

[kitten18]

The plastic lasts forever, it just doesn't keep its strength after being exposed to sunlight and heat. It becomes less plastic (the material property, not the material itself) and more brittle, like glass.

 

 

Exactly. The plastic doesn't just dissolve into dust but eventually it isn't as strong as it needs to be.

[SailorMom]

We bought our car seats in 1996 - no expiration dates.  No one had ever talked about expiration dates, not in magazines, etc.  So - of course, by the time people were talking about them (parenting blogs, magazines) we were no longer listening.  I heard about them about 3 years ago.  Parents of older kids can easily be out of the loop on little kid stuff....

I wouldn't use one past the expiration date 'just in case'....

[vonfirmath]

Anyone else remember the days when carseats didn't have Proper Names?

 

Just me?

 

You mean the companies didn't give their products names?

 

That was a LONG time ago.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=217623  has pictures of onevintage seats. And it had a Proper Name as well (Dream Seat; Though maybe people didn't always refer to them by these names)

[unsinkable]

You mean the companies didn't give their products names?

 

That was a LONG time ago.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=217623 has pictures of onevintage seats. And it had a Proper Name as well (Dream Seat; Though maybe people didn't always refer to them by these names)

I mean your last sentence...in my circle of moms, no one called their car seat by its Proper Name.

[zoobie]

Did she have liability only? Being "at fault" in an accident where you only have liability insurance will not get you a pay out. Crashing into a tree because you are speeding and lose control will still have a payout if you have collision insurance.

 

Wokers' comp can be the same way. You can do something really stupid and dangerous at work, but if you are legitimately injured, you will still get paid.

 

If you burn down your house because you leave a pan of oil on the stove on, you will still get an insurance payout.

 

I will agree that different states have different laws.

The insurance company can deny the claim and force you to fight for it, which happens all the time. That's the adjuster's job, to reduce the company's liability. The more things they can point to your doing wrong, the more they want to fight your claim, and the less your claim is effectively worth. Legally, on paper, a drunk driver may have insurance coverage. Practically, is the drunk driver going to be able to find an attorney to take the case that s/he knows will be fought tooth and nail and last donkey years (costing the attorney $$$) for no payout? It's in your interest as a driver to be buckled up, not drunk, not curling your hair while driving... ;)

 

Intoxication is a defense to workers' comp in GA, as are willful acts and a few other things. Bad idea to be drunk at work. Willful or intentional acts can be a defense to liability claims as well.

 

Plus these are just civil law issues. Criminal charges are a whole 'nother ball of yarn!

 

And if you're in a car accident, and your baby is injured, are you really sure that you won't care whether the seat was expired/legal/properly installed? Being able to tell myself (and my child) that I was doing the "right" thing would matter to me. Ethically, for these little people dependent on my care, I feel an obligation to do what's in my control to keep them safe.

 

Following laws/rules matters. On so many levels!

 

(To the quoted person--just bouncing off what you said and veering off on a tangent. :) )

[MissKNG]

Very seriously. A car seat is something I would NEVER screw around with or be cheap with (ie. buying one at a yard sale). And I'm a pretty cheap person.

 

And yes, I lived at the time when car seats did not exist and am still here. BUT people are driving faster and have bigger vehicles. Car seats are very serious imo.

[Aura]

This is how I look at it: It's like everything else in life. You have to use common sense. Can you stretch a car seat past the expiration date? IMO, yes. You don't need to toss a car seat the exact date of expiration. What's the history of the car seat (temperatures DO matter), how much longer do you plan on using it, etc? There is no definitive line for every circumstance. A person who lives in a state that sees extreme temperatures might want to replace their car seat sooner than someone who doesn't. Someone might opt to use a car seat past the expiration date rather than no car seat at all. You have to use common sense.

 

Also, the argument, "How much is the safety of your child worth," is rubbish. Everything, EVERYTHING, is a risk. Just traveling in a car puts your child at risk, and having a car seat does not guarantee that a child will never be hurt. And this phrase is insulting. You cannot put worth on your child's safety. Telling someone to scrape the money together when they have no money to scrape together is ridiculous. If the money isn't there, it just isn't there. Take the precautions that are possible and reasonable for your situation, and don't expect everyone else to do the same as you.

[Murphy101]

Our old car seats are only in the garage to serve for those occasional times when we need a spare car seat for some random event. Grandma doesn't have car seats, so she'll grab one of those if she is taking them somewhere in her car. Or a friend needs to go somewhere with me and needs a seat for their kid. That type of stuff.

 

I have a 12 year old crib that has been used exactly 4 times and a 7 year old pack and play that has been used more by visiting family than me stored in the cedar closet. I'd set them up for grandkid use at MY house. My mil did the same with an old crib she found at a garage sale cheap and then repainted to use at her house. It was/is all safe enough though I'm sure they are all recalled or have some such horrific but rare danger found about them.

 

But hey, my babies all sleep with me in my bed, so right from the start I'm an awful parent by the supposed parenting gurus. ;p

[SKL]

Well, even if there weren't laws, I'd have bought car seats because I know enough to make that choice.  Despite the fact that some articles go way overboard with sensationalism and mommy guilting, I do appreciate the ones that have actually provided useful information in this regard.

 

But my study of statistics has taught me that expiration dates always leave substantial wiggle room.  Especially something involving child safety, everyone's favorite jumping-off point to hysteria.  :P

[Murphy101]

Really? :laugh: (I'm not arguing with you, just that there were some HUGE vehicles back in the day.)

 

Yeah that's bull. The cars are not faster or bigger today. If they were they would be just as awful on fuel as cars in the 70s/80s. My parents had what we called a steel banana boat. A yellow Lincoln continental. That thing was huge and not some fiberglass POC that collapses like a tin can like so many cars do today.

[Murphy101]

Well, even if there weren't laws, I'd have bought car seats because I know enough to make that choice. Despite the fact that some articles go way overboard with sensationalism and mommy guilting, I do appreciate the ones that have actually provided useful information in this regard.

 

But my study of statistics has taught me that expiration dates always leave substantial wiggle room. Especially something involving child safety, everyone's favorite jumping-off point to hysteria. :P

Yes. We bought car seats before we legally had to. Because it's just easier to drive without a baby in your lap for one thing. My mother thought it was great bc she used to put all three of her babies in a laundry basket (she had my 3 older sibling 9 and 10 months apart) and bungee cord them in it, then hold it tight while my dad drove them all on his motorcycle to wherever they had to go. :o I tease my siblings about that and lots of other stuff explaining a whole about them. ;) My parents were really poor and didn't have the money for a car until about a year after their third baby was born. Then mom put the laundry basket in the floor of the back seats and gave orders to the toddlers to be still in the back seat and play with the baby so he wouldn't climb out of it.

[Jennay]

I don't take them very seriously.  We do what we have to do to stay within the law, but move our kids up each level as soon as they are old enough.  Honestly, I think the whole issue is a way to make more money for the companies.  

I'm the opposite.  I take them very seriously and keep mine in 5 point harnesses as long as I possibly can.  After being in an almost head on car crash with very minor injuries I am thankful I didn't have my younger ones in a booster even if technically they were within the limits.

Car seats are one thing I refuse to skimp on.