eloquacious Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 We realized a few months back that our infant seat (Chicco Keyfit 30) will expire this month. Since le bebe is due to arrive any day now (today, going by one due date), this poses a problem .... but more for me than for my husband, who is of the "they're just doing it to get us to buy another one" camp. What are your thoughts? We have friends willing to loan us their newer Chicco, but I'm thinking ahead to things like airplane travel, etc., where the thing gets pretty beat up. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that to someone else's seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmandaVT Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 How long will your new baby be in that seat? My DS only fit in his infant seat for 4 months (he was tall). If it's going to just be a few months, I'd probably be ok using it. Longer, I'd replace it. They have expiration dated because the plastic breaks down over time and it may not hold up well in a crash. Booster seats I'm less sure of - they're just belt positioning, so I'm not sure if the expiration date means as much as the infant or convertible seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Very seriously. I was underthinking when I had my 2nd baby, and just carried on with the seat I had used for my first. Until the day I pulled the strap a bit to position it on her shoulder, and it cracked the plastic and pulled right out. Right above her left shoulder. With barely a firm tug. I was holding the whole limp strap loose in my hand. I swear, I my stomach heaved and I was inches from throwing up, there standing beside my mini-van. I was physically ill knowing that I had put my baby in that seat to keep her safe, all those car rides, every time we had gone out -- and she had been in mortal danger, because I had forgotten that car seats have expiration dates. The seat was expired. I felt like I should have been arrested. It's NOT just to get you to buy another one. The issue is plastic fatigue. Plastic degrades and becomes less strong over time. It becomes brittle. My memory of fingering along that brittle texture of broken plastic is just so visceral that I can't even describe it. Heat, cold, and UV sunlight all accelerate the how quickly the plastic degrades, so maybe there is some kind of leeway where they put the date at a 'better safe than sorry' time frame, and if the seat has been kept at good temperatures out of the sun, maybe, well maybe it's not quite a death trap the instant it expires... but would I risk it? Not a chance. Not a day. Not based on my personal experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 We have friends willing to loan us their newer Chicco, but I'm thinking ahead to things like airplane travel, etc., where the thing gets pretty beat up. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that to someone else's seat. For airplane travel, our Cosco Scenara car seats were checked for all the relevant "stamps" and expiration dates at both the ticket counter and the boarding gate. The car rental company checked too when we use our own car seats on their rental minivan because of car rental insurance (we had not bought a car then so we did not have personal car insurance). ETA: We were hit in a car accident and the other party insurance did ask for car seat expiration dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I have discontinued use and replaced every seat we had at the expiration date. These seats prove their usefulness in the most extreme of circumstances (crash forces). I'm not willing to guess how much longer they last than those who designed them are willing to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I think there is likely a good bit of profiteering in the car seat manufacturing business, I expect there is also truth in the safety concerns. Safety is a priority, even on a tight budget. We don't cut corners on car seats. I'd get a new seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaS Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I take them pretty seriously, but I live in Ohio. Temps fluctuate a fair bit from pretty cold in winter to pretty hot in summer (all relative, I know) but I would rather pay a bit to replace my seat and have the peace of mind that I've done all I can to protect my kiddos. (I do foster care, too, so I feel really invested in keeping up with my seats since I'm driving around someone else's child.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Very. I live in an area where a lot of people ignore them and sell expired car seats at yard sales, so I understand your dh's thinking and didn't punch my landlord when he offered me the 16 year old car seat in his garage, but it's a scientific fact that plastic breaks down and kids die. You need to cut the straps on the expired seat when you put it out for the garbage. Your friends wouldn't have offered if they didn't expect you to use their unneeded seat and it's not going to be of any use to them if it expires before they have another baby anyway. Treat it the same way you would if you'd paid for it with your own money and make them a jar of jam or a batch of cookies to show your appreciation. If it falls through and you're really stuck, PM me; ds outgrew his convertible and I might be able to get it out to you if we can figure out the shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'll get flamed but I don't worry. I just don't. eta--I would NOT use a 16 year old seat. But a 3 year old seat, sure. See?!? I'm not really an ogre!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Very seriously. Borrow from a trusted friend or buy a new seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If it just expired very recently and you plan on buying a bigger seat pretty soon (within months), I wouldn't fuss about it from a substantive safety perspective. It's not like the seat is scheduled to self-destruct on the expiration date. I'd look into the insurance issues mentioned above, though. It's nice that you have a friend willing to lend you a seat. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaConquest Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Car accidents are the number one cause of death among children. I would never ignore the expiration. How do you put a price on your child's life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you were saying that your child was about to grow out of an expired seat within the next few months and could you hold off until you needed the next size I would say just wait. But a new baby just starting out in the seat? No. I wouldn't use the old seat. Not at all. You will need that seat for about a year and it is already expired. That is not a chance I am willing to take. And yes, if you get into an accident your insurance company will ask for proof that the seats are not expired. If there was any need for them to pay due to your child being injured (and I hope that NEVER happens to you) they will not have to pay a dime. They will simply blame the expired car seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Car accidents are the number one cause of death among children. I would never ignore the expiration. How do you put a price on your child's life? I had an alarm salesman ring my doorbell once and the first words he said were, "I see you have children. Tell me, do you value their safety??" Still a stupid question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Very seriously. I cannot even imagine putting my child in an expired car seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 When were you planning on switching your baby to a larger seat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Very seriously. If you get into an accident and your child is hurt in an expired seat, you are at fault and you'll have a very hard time getting an insurance company to foot the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinchick Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'm a pragmatist at heart and generally would ignore the expiration date on most items... BUT, I would hate myself forever, FOREVER, if a decision I made resulted in my child's death or injury - especially when there is the option of a low-cost/no-cost replacement. The chances of that ever happening are very low, but the repercussions are just too great for me to risk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I hope the insurance companies are telling people about this rule that they don't pay if your seat is expired. I never heard of that before. It sounds unreasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I hope the insurance companies are telling people about this rule that they don't pay if your seat is expired. I never heard of that before. It sounds unreasonable to me. I've never heard it either. Sounds like an urban legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Babies r us does a trade in program. They will give you a discount on any item if you bring in the expired seat. I would not put my baby in an expired seat. I was given one to use when we were super broke. We scraped up the money for a new one. Fwiw, we don't use infant seats. Only convertibles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I hope the insurance companies are telling people about this rule that they don't pay if your seat is expired. I never heard of that before. It sounds unreasonable to me. Insurance sure is different where you are, but here (given that all heathcare is already provided and does not require the coverage from anyone's car insurance) the logic that the injury would be deemed to have resulted from the child being improperly, insufficiently and illegally unrestrained before/during/after the incident sounds pretty normal. I wouldn't expect to be able to make an insurance claim for injuries in a situation like that. Doesn't it make sense that if "you" want insurance companies to pay for injuries "you" (generic you) would need to follow appropriate child safety laws? Not following laws generally influences eligibility for insurance payments right? If say you were driving the wrong way on a one-way road, or drunk or something? (Or are valid car seats not 'the law' in some places yet?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilma Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'd ditch it. When we had our last babe, the infant seat from the first babe was fixin' to expire just a month or so after her birth. Some friends who were done with having kids gave us their infant seat, which we used happily for a few months. There are probably free/cheap options available to you that don't involve an expired seat. Craigslist? Church people? Somebody has an infant seat well within its dates sitting around unused - you just gotta find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I guess if ours doesn't have an expiration date, we shouldn't use it??? I was saving it for grandbabies. Car seats produced before printed expiration dates should have a 'manufactured on' date. You can then consult the manufacturer as to how long from the manufacturing date their plastic is warranted to be safe. I think it's generally 5 to 7 years, so I'm thinking, no grandbabies... unless you've got quite a wide spread going on your childbearing years. It does happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I guess if ours doesn't have an expiration date, we shouldn't use it??? I was saving it for grandbabies. 5-6 years is standard, less if it was manufactured earlier. If in doubt, contact the manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKitty Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I had no idea seats expire. If there are dates on the seats, I dont have any on mine. I thought they weren't to be used if ever in an accident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I had no idea seats expire. If there are dates on the seats, I dont have any on mine. I thought they weren't to be used if ever in an accident? Correct that they should not be used after any accident (unseen stress and weak points). Ours (Canada) have had manufactured dates for a long time (at least 10+ years) but not necessarily in a prominent place, and not really 'out there' as an expiry date. Check for a kind of melted into the plastic imprint of some kind. It's more recent that they have been made obvious and published as a date of expiration, rather than a date of manufacture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Insurance sure is different where you are, but here (given that all heathcare is already provided and does not require the coverage from anyone's car insurance) the logic that the injury would be deemed to have resulted from the child being improperly, insufficiently and illegally unrestrained before/during/after the incident sounds pretty normal. I wouldn't expect to be able to make an insurance claim for injuries in a situation like that. Doesn't it make sense that if "you" want insurance companies to pay for injuries "you" (generic you) would need to follow appropriate child safety laws? Not following laws generally influences eligibility for insurance payments right? If say you were driving the wrong way on a one-way road, or drunk or something? (Or are valid car seats not 'the law' in some places yet?) Our laws vary widely by state, but laws do not determine liability. Standard practice does. The car seats have expiration dates. The manufacturer clearly warns not to exceed that date. If you choose not to use the product correctly, you are assuming liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'll get flamed but I don't worry. I just don't. eta--I would NOT use a 16 year old seat. But a 3 year old seat, sure. See?!? I'm not really an ogre!! A three year old seat would not be expired in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I've never heard it either. Sounds like an urban legend. When I was in an accident with my then-2yo in the car, the insurance agent asked for the date on his car seat. He wasn't hurt, but I was told that they needed the date on the seat in case he turned out to be injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom in High Heels Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I take it very seriously. I will not use an expired carseat. Ever. I don't want anyone else to use it when I get rid of it either, so I cut the straps, throw the cover away separately, and use a Sharpie to write 'Expired. Do not use!' all over the plastic shell. Either borrow your friend's newer one, or buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloquacious Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you were saying that your child was about to grow out of an expired seat within the next few months and could you hold off until you needed the next size I would say just wait. But a new baby just starting out in the seat? No. I wouldn't use the old seat. Not at all. You will need that seat for about a year and it is already expired. That is not a chance I am willing to take. And yes, if you get into an accident your insurance company will ask for proof that the seats are not expired. If there was any need for them to pay due to your child being injured (and I hope that NEVER happens to you) they will not have to pay a dime. They will simply blame the expired car seat. Well, we do have the option of bumping him to his older brother's convertible seat, a Graco which starts at 20 lbs and can be used rear-facing. My 3 1/2 year-old already meets the height/weight requirements for the high-backed booster, and we currently have two of those. (We primarily use the 2nd one for shuffling my 6 year-old nephew to school, but it could be replaced by a backless booster for $15.) So, that's one option: use our friend's car seat until the munchkin hits around 20 lbs, around the time his brother turns four, and then use our own seats. We won't be traveling internationally until next summer at the earliest. I did hope to keep #2 in the five-point harness a little longer, but... it's an option. One other thought I had was discarding our Chicco but keeping the car seat cover and using it on THEIR seat so I don't feel so bad about staining/etc. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 One other thought I had was discarding our Chicco but keeping the car seat cover and using it on THEIR seat so I don't feel so bad about staining/etc. ;) You can definitely do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloquacious Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 A three year old seat would not be expired in the first place. True, ours dates back to #1's infancy, so it was bought in 2008 and expires 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloquacious Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 You can definitely do that. Added bonus: Baby Braor will still have the photos that show him sitting in the "same" seat as his brothers... and it will match the stroller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Well, we do have the option of bumping him to his older brother's convertible seat, a Graco which starts at 20 lbs and can be used rear-facing. My 3 1/2 year-old already meets the height/weight requirements for the high-backed booster, and we currently have two of those. (We primarily use the 2nd one for shuffling my 6 year-old nephew to school, but it could be replaced by a backless booster for $15.) So, that's one option: use our friend's car seat until the munchkin hits around 20 lbs, around the time his brother turns four, and then use our own seats. We won't be traveling internationally until next summer at the earliest. I did hope to keep #2 in the five-point harness a little longer, but... it's an option. One other thought I had was discarding our Chicco but keeping the car seat cover and using it on THEIR seat so I don't feel so bad about staining/etc. ;) I wouldn't put a 3.5 year old in a belt positioning booster. If it's not feasible to buy a new seat, I'd borrow the friend's until you can buy the baby a seat. The Graco will expire before the baby would be done with it, correct? So you'll need a seat for the baby anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloquacious Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 I wouldn't put a 3.5 year old in a belt positioning booster. If it's not feasible to buy a new seat, I'd borrow the friend's until you can buy the baby a seat. The Graco will expire before the baby would be done with it, correct? So you'll need a seat for the baby anyway. Possibly. I'll have to look into it. We did buy the Graco Nautilus more recently, for #2 and not #1. That is always an option, too.. eventually buying a second Graco Nautilus so the middle boy can stay in the harness longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Very seriously. Expired seats can fail in a crash due to degraded plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Very seriously. If you get into an accident and your child is hurt in an expired seat, you are at fault and you'll have a very hard time getting an insurance company to foot the bill. I call shinanigans. What about people in wrecks without their seat belts on? Does the insurance company get to say "to bad, so sad" to them?? What about speeders? If I hit someone speeding, does my insurance company not have to pay?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I call shinanigans. What about people in wrecks without their seat belts on? Does the insurance company get to say "to bad, so sad" to them?? What about speeders? If I hit someone speeding, does my insurance company not have to pay?? Depends on state law, but yes, it matters, and it's called comparative negligence. Each party involved in an accident is assigned a percentage of fault for the injuries/damage. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=comparative+negligence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I don't take them very seriously. We do what we have to do to stay within the law, but move our kids up each level as soon as they are old enough. Honestly, I think the whole issue is a way to make more money for the companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I guess if ours doesn't have an expiration date, we shouldn't use it??? I was saving it for grandbabies. No. Don't do that. That is like saving a crib from the 1960s (like my mom did) only to have your daughter tell you in 2000 that the slats are too wide apart and put the baby in danger. Or saving that old highchair with lead based paint. Unless, of course you and your oldest child are of an age where you could possibly both be pregnant within years of each other and the seat is only 2 years old. Do people really not know that the seats expire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I call shinanigans. What about people in wrecks without their seat belts on? Does the insurance company get to say "to bad, so sad" to them?? What about speeders? If I hit someone speeding, does my insurance company not have to pay?? They might not pay (I want to say probably won't pay) if you are not wearing a seat belt and there is a seat belt law in your state. Same with speeding. If you are found to be be at fault in an accident due to excessive speed your insurance company really might not compensate you for your accident. When has an insurance company ever not gone out of its way to pay out? Of course they are going to look for every little opportunity to not pay. If you are breaking the law by not wearing a seat belt or speeding then why should they pay out for that? You were negligent. I got into a fender bender with no claims about my kids or their seats and I had to provide proof to the cops that the seats were not expired. It was part of the accident paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Apparently some people not only "don't know" -- they actually don't believe it. Maybe they would believe it if they were the ones holding the limp strap and fingering the cracks in the plastic -- the plastic to which they had been blithely trusting the life of their infant. Sometimes people need to learn from their own experiences, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Strawberry Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I call shinanigans. What about people in wrecks without their seat belts on? Does the insurance company get to say "to bad, so sad" to them?? What about speeders? If I hit someone speeding, does my insurance company not have to pay?? SIL was in a single car accident, intoxicated, no seat belt. She was seriously injured. She gets nothing from her insurance because she is entirely at fault. Nothing for medical expenses, nothing for the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Perhaps there is some issue between whether health insurance will cover needed healthcare after a negligent accident -- and whether vehicle insurance will pay out a compensation claim for injuries? I know that no one (in my province, Canada) gets any compensation for an accident where they were at fault, and being in violation of a law would certianly be considered at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Perhaps there is some issue between whether health insurance will cover needed healthcare after a negligent accident -- and whether vehicle insurance will pay out a compensation claim for injuries? I know that no one (in my province, Canada) gets any compensation for an accident where they were at fault, and being in violation of a law would certianly be considered at fault. In the US, auto insurance pays for medical costs associated with a car accident. Health insurance does not, and you can be required to reimburse your plan if you fraudulently use it after an auto accident or an accident where you are injured on someone's property that should be paid by liability insurance. My state allows some ridiculous $25,000 minimum medical coverage that will not be adequate in a serious accident (especially if multiple people have to share that), so we have high uninsured/ underinsured coverage on our own car insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Insurance sure is different where you are, but here (given that all heathcare is already provided and does not require the coverage from anyone's car insurance) the logic that the injury would be deemed to have resulted from the child being improperly, insufficiently and illegally unrestrained before/during/after the incident sounds pretty normal. I wouldn't expect to be able to make an insurance claim for injuries in a situation like that. Doesn't it make sense that if "you" want insurance companies to pay for injuries "you" (generic you) would need to follow appropriate child safety laws? Not following laws generally influences eligibility for insurance payments right? If say you were driving the wrong way on a one-way road, or drunk or something? (Or are valid car seats not 'the law' in some places yet?) Insurance covers you even when you are stupid. Following or not following laws has no bearing on it. My aunt is in risk management, and the stories she tells about the STUPID things people do (and they still get settlements and pay-outs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Insurance covers you even when you are stupid. Following or not following laws has no bearing on it. My aunt is in risk management, and the stories she tells about the STUPID things people do (and they still get settlements and pay-outs.) Depends on your state laws, if you aren't wearing a seat belt in OH among others you could get reduced payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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