Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 after working so hard on an elimination diet/food diary, it seems that ds reacts when he has either of the above. These sauces often just say "spices" so knowing exactly what the trigger is could be tricky. I am thinking paprika? mustard? or garlic? Is there another common spice I am missing? I know that cinnamon is okay. He eats tons of cinnamon/apple rice cakes. I only use organic ketchup and bbq sauce that do not have corn syrup. thanks for helping me brain storm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belacqua Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Aside from vinegar, I'm wondering what they might have in common. Ketchup and BBQ sauce can be pretty complex and varied, but mustard is pretty simple, isn't it? Turmeric? Cumin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Vinegar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 We eat a good bit of vinegar on salads. Actually, take mustard out of the equation. I just realized that the days when he had mustard, it was as honey mustard and it was on grilled chicken that was marinated in a combo that included other spices. Ugh, this is so hard. I am seriously suspicious of paprika. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 What kind of ketchup? I've heard of issues with Heinz organic and wheat allergies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 What kind of ketchup? I've heard of issues with Heinz organic and wheat allergies. Trader Joe's brand. He seems to eat wheat fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 onion powder...garlic powder tough one... What about citric acid? My mom just mentioned those too. Citric acid is an interesting thought as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 I am attempting to narrow it down for allergy testing on Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 and you're sure it isnt actually tomato? could you try making your own ketchup and bbq sauce for a while? ketchup is an ingredient in most bbq sauces .. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Tomato? (Cooked) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'd be willing to bet a moderate sum it's cayenne pepper. Barring corn allergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 "Spices" often include MSG. Because of how FDA regulations are written, if the MSG constitutes less than a certain % of the spices/flavorings added, it can be bundled with other ingredients and doesn't have to be listed separately. Food manufacturers prefer not to list MSG nowadays because it has (rightfully) gotten a bad rap. Many, many people are sensitive to MSG and have a variety of physical/behavioral reactions to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 and you're sure it isnt actually tomato? could you try making your own ketchup and bbq sauce for a while? ketchup is an ingredient in most bbq sauces .. . No, I am not sure :confused: It definitely could be. We don't eat cooked tomato except in sauces. ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'd be willing to bet a moderate sum it's cayenne pepper. Barring corn allergy. Would corn be in organic sauces that don't have corn syrup? I am pretty sure he has a corn allergy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Would corn be in organic sauces that don't have corn syrup? I am pretty sure he has a corn allergy too. I couldn't be sure without seeing the ingredients, but corn is in almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 What kind of reaction does he have? He gets conjunctivitis and extremely itchy eyes/ears and turns from the sweetest boy ever to a downright bear. You would think with the conjunctivitis it would be environmental, but the only time he is symptom free is when he eats nothing but rice, turkey, chicken, bananas, grapes, and green beans. When I expanded I allowed corn free sauces, assuming they were okay. The last week or so I felt so confident that it was a spice + corn that I have allowed him to eat wheat, eggs, etc but nothing with spice or sauce or corn and he has been fine. So hard to narrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Trader Joe's Ketchup Ingredients: organic tomato puree organic sugar organic vinegar salt onion powder garlic powder spices Trader's joes BBQ sauce tomato sugar molasses vinegar salt barbeque seasoning onion powder natural hickory smoke flavor garlic powder caramel color Geez, maybe I am not seeing the forest for the trees here.....tomatoes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Would corn be in organic sauces that don't have corn syrup? I am pretty sure he has a corn allergy too. Yes corn is everything! I believe even citric acid is derived from corn, some of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Yes corn is everything! I believe even citric acid is derived from corn, some of the time. Neither of them list corn, but that may mean nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubix Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'd bet tomatoes. Could you have him try some pasta sauce and see if that gets the same reaction? Or just plan tomato sauce if you want to eliminate the spice confusion. Hope you can figure this out soon :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'd try making a simple recipe, then add one ingredient at a time as he tolerates them. You may be stuck making your own ketchup, but it can be canned in batches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Would corn be in organic sauces that don't have corn syrup? I am pretty sure he has a corn allergy too. corn starch for thickening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I would think it was tomatoes. Tomatoes are a fairly common allergen, and if you all don't eat them a lot he may not have reacted before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in nj Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 My daughter has a sulphite allergy and hidden, unlabeled sulphites are in almost every processed food! The way I figured it out is that once her diet was clean, I got lazy and used processed lemon juice (anything other than a whole lemon) and within 15 minutes her eyes started oozing yellow gook. Your mention of his eye problems led me to mention this. It's easy to check because fresh lemon juice (from a real lemon) will not cause a problem but the "fresh' lemon juice that you buy in the super market (even if it says fresh, natural and only lists lemon juice as the only ingredient) will cause a reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 My daughter has a sulphite allergy and hidden, unlabeled sulphites are in almost every processed food! The way I figured it out is that once her diet was clean, I got lazy and used processed lemon juice (anything other than a whole lemon) and within 15 minutes her eyes started oozing yellow gook. Your mention of his eye problems led me to mention this. It's easy to check because fresh lemon juice (from a real lemon) will not cause a problem but the "fresh' lemon juice that you buy in the super market (even if it says fresh, natural and only lists lemon juice as the only ingredient) will cause a reaction. I am so glad to hear you say that your daughter has had an eye reaction to food. I mean, I am not glad that your daughter has an allergy, but people think I am crazy. They think it is environmental and that the food thing is in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 BIL has a life threatening allergy to garlic. He started with more mild reactions (like you described) when he was around 6yr-- at first everyone (including his Dr) thought it was a tomatoe allergy. He always reacted to Ketchup so MIL had it narrowed down. By his teen years he was hospitalized for severe reactions. BIL only eats out at certain restaurants-- and he always speaks to the head cook (every single time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuckoomamma Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 Could be the garlic, could be that the "sugar" is corn based. Some citric acid is from corn. Our girls are allergic to corn and can tolerate some citric acid and not others. Both girls and I also have a garlic allergy. We can tolerate very small amounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in nj Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yes, Charleigh, eye symptoms can definitely be the result of food intolerances/allergies. My dd just went off to college and they are preparing 6 dinners a week for her using only a narrow list of "approved" ingredients. About a week into school they served her turkey breast and about 1/4 way through her eyes started oozing. My daughter eats ground turkey regularly in the frozen meals we provide or stuff she makes in her dorm so we are certain that turkey is safe, and that this turkey had undergone some process before it arrived on campus. Sure enough, the chef/dietician did some digging and the turkey was "infused" (with God-only-knows what). As someone who has a child who developed severe food intolerances several years ago (constantly oozing eyes and progressively worse asthma), I would recommend that you go back to your strict safe diet and add things back one at a time leaving 72 hours before adding an additional food. I know it is really, really hard, but it is really tough to add in processed convenience items like ketchup or bbq sauce because there are just so many unknowns and unlabeled additives. I would suggest finding a clean brand of tomatoes (Muir Glen works for us) and then try fresh garlic and then maybe some fresh citrus. It is the easiest way to verify things are safe. Once you have enough safe ingredients, it is relatively easy and cheap to make your own ketchup and bbq sauce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 My dd reacts to raw tomatoes. She has a weakness for fresh salsa, so she just takes benedryll when she eats it :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'd want to know specifically what the "spices" are. Manufacturers can hide stuff in there, like the MSG previously mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 No, I am not sure :confused: It definitely could be. We don't eat cooked tomato except in sauces. ugh Does he react to spaghetti sauce or chili? If so, tomatoes might be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plateau Mama Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Would corn be in organic sauces that don't have corn syrup? I am pretty sure he has a corn allergy too. Xantham gum, maltodextrin, vegetable oil are some hidden sources of corn. These are the ones that can be corn derived. Veg oil is typically soy in the US, but it can be corn. Maltodextrin can be derived from one of several things. He gets conjunctivitis and extremely itchy eyes/ears and turns from the sweetest boy ever to a downright bear. You would think with the conjunctivitis it would be environmental, but the only time he is symptom free is when he eats nothing but rice, turkey, chicken, bananas, grapes, and green beans. When I expanded I allowed corn free sauces, assuming they were okay. The last week or so I felt so confident that it was a spice + corn that I have allowed him to eat wheat, eggs, etc but nothing with spice or sauce or corn and he has been fine. So hard to narrow. My son cannot have corn, even a little bit. He becomes a terror, and as he describes it he feels angry. He cries over everything and says very scary things. One thing to consider is if its really these things or not. My son doesn't show symptoms for 24 hours and it takes 36 hours from onset of symptoms for him to return to normal. His is technically an intolerance and supposedly a small one at that. A regular allergy test would not have shown this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Would corn be in organic sauces that don't have corn syrup? I am pretty sure he has a corn allergy too. Citric acid and ascorbic acid are frequently made from corn. So anything with that ingredient can contain corn. edited for spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Well, considering that they have almost exactly the same ingredients, it would be almost impossible to figure it out.. The only non duplicated ingredients are the caramel color and molasses. But with vague descriptions like 'BBQ seasoning' and 'spices', who really knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I have a delayed mucous membrane reaction to tomatoes. It was very hard to diagnose, since it wasn't until the following day that I would have a reaction. Like others, I would start by making pasta and then a basic tomato sauce. Add ingredients each time he eats until you isolate the offending variable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yes, Charleigh, eye symptoms can definitely be the result of food intolerances/allergies. My dd just went off to college and they are preparing 6 dinners a week for her using only a narrow list of "approved" ingredients. About a week into school they served her turkey breast and about 1/4 way through her eyes started oozing. My daughter eats ground turkey regularly in the frozen meals we provide or stuff she makes in her dorm so we are certain that turkey is safe, and that this turkey had undergone some process before it arrived on campus. Sure enough, the chef/dietician did some digging and the turkey was "infused" (with God-only-knows what). As someone who has a child who developed severe food intolerances several years ago (constantly oozing eyes and progressively worse asthma), I would recommend that you go back to your strict safe diet and add things back one at a time leaving 72 hours before adding an additional food. I know it is really, really hard, but it is really tough to add in processed convenience items like ketchup or bbq sauce because there are just so many unknowns and unlabeled additives. I would suggest finding a clean brand of tomatoes (Muir Glen works for us) and then try fresh garlic and then maybe some fresh citrus. It is the easiest way to verify things are safe. Once you have enough safe ingredients, it is relatively easy and cheap to make your own ketchup and bbq sauce. Does she always react immediately? Is there ever a delay? Great information. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Trader Joe's Ketchup Ingredients: organic tomato puree organic sugar organic vinegar salt onion powder garlic powder spices Trader's joes BBQ sauce tomato sugar molasses vinegar salt barbeque seasoning onion powder natural hickory smoke flavor garlic powder caramel color Geez, maybe I am not seeing the forest for the trees here.....tomatoes? My older son outgrew his corn allergy after strict avoidance. I see many possible sources here. I never trusted labels. I always contacted a company and asked specifically about where ingredients were sourced. Here I see that could be problematic: sugar, vinegar, salt, spices, molasses, barbecue seasoning, natural hickory smoke flavor, caramel color. Honestly, I wouldn't have even bothered attempting the barbecue sauce with the ingredients you listed. The ketchup I would have asked about. We stocked up on Jewish products during Passover season to last through the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 "Spices" often include MSG. Because of how FDA regulations are written, if the MSG constitutes less than a certain % of the spices/flavorings added, it can be bundled with other ingredients and doesn't have to be listed separately. Food manufacturers prefer not to list MSG nowadays because it has (rightfully) gotten a bad rap. Many, many people are sensitive to MSG and have a variety of physical/behavioral reactions to it. Agreeing. http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/blog/whole-story/myths-and-misconceptions-msg Found this just now, and thought it interesting. MSG definitely is bad. This article, however, addresses the misperception that other substances containing glutamates (such as autolyzed yeast) are the same thing as MSG. The writer notes that " .a small subset of people may be sensitive to even these small levels of glutamate, . . ." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'm assuming you don't mean the obvious, which is tomatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in nj Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Does she always react immediately? Is there ever a delay? Great information. Thanks. No, she does not always react immediately, sometimes she wakes up the next morning with gooky eyes and they continue to ooze for a day or two and then get progressively better. Now that her diet has been very clean for a year or two and especially clean since this summer and we started a new supplement this summer, she tends to have a more immediate reaction, but the effects are not as long-lasting and don't impair her breathing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I stopped reading after a while since this was so long, but I know someone who cannot eat distilled vinegar. Apple cider vinegar is okay. Most labels don't differentiate. I don't know what her symptoms are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 When you're stuck with allergy stuff, it is easier if you stay away from prepared sauces. They have all sorts of hidden things in them. There are a lot of ingredients that would be in both ketchup and BBQ sauce, and tomato is something that isn't unheard of as an allergy. Sorry, that stuff sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirth Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Tamarind. Annie's BBQ sauce and ketchup used to list tamarind explicitly. Now I think it's gotten lumped into spices Tamarind is botanically related to peanut. It even looks like a peanut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I have a relative who has extreme reactions to garlic. Also, how about corn syrup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 We go for another round of allergy testing today. Say a prayer :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 White vinegar is often derived from corn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 :grouphug: I hope the testing proves to be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorien Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Sugar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkermamaof4 Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Are you getting an IgG done? We did a metametrix one and it covered everything imaginable. For ds it was both cinnamon and mustard and 10 other things. I hear from others that they did both metametrix and Great Plains and found Great Plains IgG to be even more accurate. Metametrix wasn't wrong about anything, it just missed some. Great Plains caught them all and also wasn't wrong about any. HTH! Let us know what you find out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Skin prick test showed nothing :( At first she said mustard looked bad, but then when she measured it she said it wasn't large enough. He has many weals, just none large enough to claim. Should I be leary of mustard? I am really wondering about an allergy to sulfites or another additive. The BBQ we use is natural but it has molasses and molasses is high in sulfites. I really want to figure this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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