God WILL give you more than you can handle......... (Christian content)

[Joanne]

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/yes-god-will-give-you-more-you-can-handle

 

If more Christians/Christian writers used this kind of critical thinking and less trite answers, I may have forged a more nearly Christian faith after my own 5+ years of "more than I can handle."

 

 

[Harriet Vane]

Excellent article. Well written. I couldn't agree more.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[goldberry]

That was beautiful, thanks for sharing.

[RainySunday]

That was a good read, thank you for sharing.

[BlessedMom]

Thank you for sharing & for the link.

[6packofun]

Good article.  Others will always spout poor theology, but I have only myself to blame if I fall for it.  I'd leave Christianity, too, if it was actually founded on these trite sayings and I never took responsibility to discern truth from crap.

[maize]

Thank you for posting this.

[Halftime Hope]

I've learned to think of it this way:  He will not give us more than He can provide for.   That is a lifeline.

[BakersDozen]

100% agree with that article, especially the part about wanting to hit someone who says those stupid words to me.  

[SunnyDays]

Very well done article. I agree that many such "encouraging" phrases only invite feelings of inferiority, and often bitterness. We need to be real with one another.

[chepyl]

Our pastor mentioned something similar in his message this week. He said that God WILL give you more than you can handle so that you will learn to lean on him. I have always heard the opposite, but I also had Philippians 4:13 drummed into my head throughout jr high and high school "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." And also Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight." Those two verses outweighed the popular saying in my mind and heart.

[I.Dup.]

John Donne has some pretty amazing poems that go along the lines of this issue. Here's one of my favorites:

 

Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you

As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;

That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend

Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.

I, like an usurp'd town to another due,

Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;

Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,

But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.

Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,

But am betroth'd unto your enemy;

Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,

Take me to you, imprison me, for I,

Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,

Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

[Mom2Es]

Similar: http://awordywoman.com/god-wont-give-you-more-than-you-can-handle/

[Heather in Neverland]

1st Corinthians 10:13 is such a misused scripture. He won't give you more than you can handle? Define "handle."  That scripture is talking about your salvation... not your life problems. I hate when people say that because it is such a load of crap. I am pretty sure all the apostles who were tortured and executed didn't "handle" it. But their salvation was intact.

 

It's one of the reasons I loathe the prosperity gospel.  Right now our amah is spending half of her salary every month playing lottery tickets and telling us she is going to win because she is praying to God and her pastor said that God wants us all to be rich. No amount of discussion on my part will dissuade her because "her pastor said so." Grrrr.....

 

We are not promised health or happiness or riches. Period.

[RoughCollie]

Good article.  Others will always spout poor theology, but I have only myself to blame if I fall for it.  I'd leave Christianity, too, if it was actually founded on these trite sayings and I never took responsibility to discern truth from crap.

 

There are a lot of reasons people leave Christianity, and I think the number one cause is other so-called Christians being sanctimonious instead of "walking alongside one another".

 

From the article: 

 

"In times when life becomes unmanageable, we need to be willing to walk alongside one another. When we do this, we put flesh and bone on the person of Jesus. We can be with one another in the midst of suffering, helping each other carry the weight. Which means, that we, as the Body of Christ, have an opportunity.

 

When we are willing to sit in the pain, to walk with one another when life’s path is difficult and to shoulder one another’s burdens when they are too heavy, we become an embodied promise. We become living proof that while life can sometimes be too much, through the goodness of our loving of God displayed within us, we can move forward together."

[Lizzie in Ma]

Thank you so much, your timing was perfect.

[Chris in VA]

 

John Donne has some pretty amazing poems that go along the lines of this issue. Here's one of my favorites:

 

Batter my heart, three-person'd God, for you

As yet but knock, breathe, shine, and seek to mend;

That I may rise and stand, o'erthrow me, and bend

Your force to break, blow, burn, and make me new.

I, like an usurp'd town to another due,

Labor to admit you, but oh, to no end;

Reason, your viceroy in me, me should defend,

But is captiv'd, and proves weak or untrue.

Yet dearly I love you, and would be lov'd fain,

But am betroth'd unto your enemy;

Divorce me, untie or break that knot again,

Take me to you, imprison me, for I,

Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,

Nor ever chaste, except you ravish me.

 

 

This is my favorite poem. I've been chastised for embracing it. I never thought about applying it to what Joanne is talking about. Thanks for giving me more to think about!

 

As for the OP's post, I believe we were designed to live in community. ITA with those who are saying we cannot "handle" everything on our own. Utter crap. 

[*Lulu*]

Joanne, this article was so very good and so very timely. Thank you for sharing it.

[Mommyfaithe]

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/yes-god-will-give-you-more-you-can-handle

 

If more Christians/Christian writers used this kind of critical thinking and less trite answers, I may have forged a more nearly Christian faith after my own 5+ years of "more than I can handle."

Yeah, I have had much more than I can handle. The answers were always trite and damaging....if you only had more faith....yep, let's play the blame game! I did not lose my faith in Christ, but I sure lost my faith in other people, especially church people and Christians. Not a whole lotta love goin on there.

 

I am finally pulling myself all back together. I am healthy again, and maybe will even allow myself to be happy....but, DAMN, if I am not constantly looking over my shoulder ( figuratively) waiting for another 2 ton weight to fall from the sky. Trust issues???? Hell yes!

[Parrothead]

Yeah, I have had much more than I can handle. The answers were always trite and damaging....if you only had more faith....yep, let's play the blame game! I did not lose my faith in Christ, but I sure lost my faith in other people, especially church people and Christians. Not a whole lotta love goin on there.

 

I am finally pulling myself all back together. I am healthy again, and maybe will even allow myself to be happy....but, DAMN, if I am not constantly looking over my shoulder ( figuratively) waiting for another 2 ton weight to fall from the sky. Trust issues???? Hell yes!

Hugs. I'm sorry.

[Seasider]

About a decade ago, I had a huge life event that caused me to rethink that trite phrase. Nowadays, when people throw it out in my earshot, I engage.

 

"What makes you think that?"

"If one could handle everything on his own, would he ever turn to God?"

"What then actually brings a person to her knees in prayer?"

 

I try to be very gentle about it, but I can't let it go. That would be leaving someone with a wrong view of both God and the walk of the believer.

 

Nice article, thanks for posting it.

[Laurie4b]

Joanne, I am sorry that you were subjected to such lack of love during the time when you needed it most. Thanks for sharing the article.

 

Trite phrases are, I think,  for the benefit of the speaker of the phrase. For instance, if God doesn't give someone more than she can handle, that absolves the speaker of the need to share the pain in love." I don't like pain, so I'm off the hook.Let me schedule my mani-pedi"  It's been interesting to me, in a macabre way, what people say to the bereaved from the ridiculous ("You're young enough to find another husband" at the memorial service) to admonishing ("You should be over this and getting back to life by now" 2 months later.) I think it's a way of distancing themselves from not only the pain of the bereaved person but of the potential for their own bereavement at some point and the depths of pain it will cause.

 

I think we do often end up with more than we can handle and the response to that is love. God's love for us caused him to embrace suffering on the cross, and his words about the sheep and the goats and to Saul, "Why do you persecute Me?" indicate he continues to experience that suffering with us. Sometimes in pain, we grasp the reality of his presence. Sometimes we don't. I don't try to figure out why but I am grateful that when I feel most estranged from and angry at God, I can use words of Scripture to express myself. It's a comfort that Job, who railed at God, was the one who God engaged, but the ones who blamed the suffering on Job and admonished him for his raw words ended up in trouble. Job 42: After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has" Those men, who iinitially did what was right and just sat with Job, eventually began speaking platitudes.

 

But even if the presence of God seems distant, what never does is his love given through his people, those who share the pain and do what they can to lighten the load. It costs them because love feels the pain of the other.

 

I always thought these verses from Galatians 6 were helpful: ² Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. ³ If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. ⁴ Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, ⁵ for each one should carry their own load.  So there is a certain amount of stuff we carry ourselves--our load, like someone in the army has a pack. But then there is a load that is too much--it's a burden. Maybe our buddy is wounded and can no longer carry his load, so I take some or all of it, even though it increases mine. So we're not to shirk, either to carry what we can, nor does love allow us to shirk taking up someone else's stuff. We don't take for them what they can carry (that's enabling) but if we are "able-bodied" (metaphorically speaking) and someone else is not, love means helping out.

 

 

 

[Saddlemomma]

Yup!  I abandoned my claim to many phrases in the Bible because they don't actually pertain to us.  Christians tend to "claim" verses without reading in context.  If they did, they would discover, as I finally did, that many of those verses and promises were for a certain people, at a certain time, and in a certain place.  We are to use the content in context as examples to discover God's mercy, love, personality, and His need for justice, despite how cruel it may seem to us, because He cannot look at or tolerate sin.  We are to examine how He continually tries to steer us in the right direction by providing laws and rules, up to sacrificing His only begotten Son, despite our continual disobedience.

 

I never understood any of this by sitting in church listening to a pastor.  I didn't discover true Christianity until I started listening to podcasts from http://str.org

They have taught me to never read just a Bible verse, to read in context, and to examine everything.  Now I believe I'm on the right road to understanding true Christianity.

 

 

By the way, that was a fantastic article!

[Joanne]

Joanne, I am sorry that you were subjected to such lack of love during the time when you needed it most. Thanks for sharing the article.

 

Trite phrases are, I think,  for the benefit of the speaker of the phrase. For instance, if God doesn't give someone more than she can handle, that absolves the speaker of the need to share the pain in love." I don't like pain, so I'm off the hook.Let me schedule my mani-pedi"  It's been interesting to me, in a macabre way, what people say to the bereaved from the ridiculous ("You're young enough to find another husband" at the memorial service) to admonishing ("You should be over this and getting back to life by now" 2 months later.) I think it's a way of distancing themselves from not only the pain of the bereaved person but of the potential for their own bereavement at some point and the depths of pain it will cause.

 

I think we do often end up with more than we can handle and the response to that is love. God's love for us caused him to embrace suffering on the cross, and his words about the sheep and the goats and to Saul, "Why do you persecute Me?" indicate he continues to experience that suffering with us. Sometimes in pain, we grasp the reality of his presence. Sometimes we don't. I don't try to figure out why but I am grateful that when I feel most estranged from and angry at God, I can use words of Scripture to express myself. It's a comfort that Job, who railed at God, was the one who God engaged, but the ones who blamed the suffering on Job and admonished him for his raw words ended up in trouble. Job 42: After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has" Those men, who iinitially did what was right and just sat with Job, eventually began speaking platitudes.

 

But even if the presence of God seems distant, what never does is his love given through his people, those who share the pain and do what they can to lighten the load. It costs them because love feels the pain of the other.

 

I always thought these verses from Galatians 6 were helpful: ² Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. ³ If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. ⁴ Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, ⁵ for each one should carry their own load.  So there is a certain amount of stuff we carry ourselves--our load, like someone in the army has a pack. But then there is a load that is too much--it's a burden. Maybe our buddy is wounded and can no longer carry his load, so I take some or all of it, even though it increases mine. So we're not to shirk, either to carry what we can, nor does love allow us to shirk taking up someone else's stuff. We don't take for them what they can carry (that's enabling) but if we are "able-bodied" (metaphorically speaking) and someone else is not, love means helping out.

 

In graduate school, I did a paper/study based on the spirit of community building in the "one anothers" of the NT.

I (still) believe the design for community that emerges from those verses is inspired and necessary for a whole, healthy life.

[Miss Marple]

Excellent article.  I, too, have been subjected to phrases of this type - I think we probably all have at some time or other.  But I've come to realize that my relationship with Christ isn't based on the lousy relationship others have with Him.  And He is not responsible for the lousy representation they make of Him.  It's my business to learn about Him and follow Him...not learn what others think about Him and follow him they way they do.

[Woodhaven]

Good article.  Others will always spout poor theology, but I have only myself to blame if I fall for it.

Yes, it is our own responsibility to search out the truth. If we follow others in their shallow and poor theology we are fools.

[Carol in Cal.]

The prosperity gospel goes farther than just 'name it and claim it'.  It goes all the way to 'claim this verse out of context and interpret it to mean that God is bound to it although you have utterly failed to assess what He was actually saying in it'.  And that is completely unfair and extremely damaging.  It's wrong, misguided, and delusional.  It is no gospel at all.

[milovany]

I didn't discover true Christianity until I started listening to podcasts from http://str.org

Now I believe I'm on the right road to understanding true Christianity.

 

And, yet, there are "true Christians" who would disagree with the statement of faith of this group.  I read it through and don't believe it's original Christianity at all.  So there's still that whole interpretation-apart-from-the-early-church bugaboo.

 

---

Joanne, thanks for sharing the article. 

 

[Joanne]

Yes, it is our own responsibility to search out the truth. If we follow others in their shallow and poor theology we are fools.

 

 

Good article.  Others will always spout poor theology, but I have only myself to blame if I fall for it.  I'd leave Christianity, too, if it was actually founded on these trite sayings and I never took responsibility to discern truth from crap.

 

 

I searched the truth, to the degree of earning a Masters degree in a seminary. (Only to be told by some Christians that my choice of seminaries was the problem).

 

The comments about "poor theology" miss the boat for those who have made a researched, informed, agonizing and lengthy decision to leave the label or the faith.

 

The quoted posts are themselves trite and condescending. The implication is that the "right study" leads to "right conclusion. It's insulting that the student/learner must blame themselves if they study and determine that Christianity is not a workable faith for them.

[I.Dup.]

But Joanne, our whole life is a journey. We cannot continue blaming others for long; things will always come back on us and how we choose to respond. Even if others have hurt us or led us astray, blaming them for awhile may feel good for us, but it never helps anything, and it certainly doesn't hold them accountable in any real way. We are the only ones to suffer for it.

[Joanne]

But Joanne, our whole life is a journey. We cannot continue blaming others for long; things will always come back on us and how we choose to respond. Even if others have hurt us or led us astray, blaming them for awhile may feel good for us, but it never helps anything, and it certainly doesn't hold them accountable in any real way. We are the only ones to suffer for it.

 

 

I,Dup.

 

I have spent over 10 years working my butt off, losing sleep, getting pre-cancer, losing time/years/developmental milestones with my kids transcending the challenges presented by my life and the realities of people in it.

Christianity and Christian culture being harmful is a part of MY journey. I'll speak about it as I feel necessary. I realize it is not always a safe place here (or in Katy Texas, or in AA, or.......) to state my spiritual truth and worldview, but I will continue to state it as I feel I need to.

If you need to label it as "blaming others", go right ahead. You might want to spend some time looking for the moccassins of mine to try on and walk in before you decide if I am blaming or suffering because I mention the role people or institutions have had in my life journey.

[Carol in Cal.]

Joanne, you have been through so much.  My heart goes out to you.  It's horrible that we don't have a better medical system, that people can be denied care because of finances in this richest country in the world.  It's horrible that institutions, even churches at times, protect their own sometimes, instead of looking for the truth.  It's horrible that you have not found rest or peace.  Life is so hard sometimes.  And avoiding life's difficulties is not a given, or even a promise, or even an implication, despite what some say.  It's horrible that this is taught so misleadingly, and it's wrong.  If it were true, it would be impossible to read about Stephen, or Paul, or anyone else who was martyred in the early Church without assuming that there was something deeply wrong with them as Christians, which is ridiculous.  I'm sorry, Joanne.  I wish that there was something I could do.

 

 

[Joanne]

Joanne, you have been through so much.  My heart goes out to you.  It's horrible that we don't have a better medical system, that people can be denied care because of finances in this richest country in the world.  It's horrible that institutions, even churches at times, protect their own sometimes, instead of looking for the truth.  It's horrible that you have not found rest or peace.  Life is so hard sometimes.  And avoiding life's difficulties is not a given, or even a promise, or even an implication, despite what some say.  It's horrible that this is taught so misleadingly, and it's wrong.  If it were true, it would be impossible to read about Stephen, or Paul, or anyone else who was martyred in the early Church without assuming that there was something deeply wrong with them as Christians, which is ridiculous.  I'm sorry, Joanne.  I wish that there was something I could do.

 

Your support, care, concern, and love HAVE helped! :-)

 

Now, if you had some power to put a certain ex husband to work so that there were wages to garnish..........;-)

[I.Dup.]

I,Dup.

 

I have spent over 10 years working my butt off, losing sleep, getting pre-cancer, losing time/years/developmental milestones with my kids transcending the challenges presented by my life and the realities of people in it.

Christianity and Christian culture being harmful is a part of MY journey. I'll speak about it as I feel necessary. I realize it is not always a safe place here (or in Katy Texas, or in AA, or.......) to state my spiritual truth and worldview, but I will continue to state it as I feel I need to.

If you need to label it as "blaming others", go right ahead. You might want to spend some time looking for the moccassins of mine to try on and walk in before you decide if I am blaming or suffering because I mention the role people or institutions have had in my life journey.

 

Joanne. You are not the only one to have suffered. You are not alone.

 

You are free to share, I would never try to stop you. I do not judge you. Stopping you or judging you was not my intent in posting!

 

I am very, very sorry for your pain and the hardships you have been through. I don't mean to hurt you.

 

I do, gently, suggest that you are quite defensive on this issue and may see animosity where there is none. Not everyone is adept at tiptoeing. Some may answer in ways that are not acceptable to you. That does not necessarily mean they have not suffered, or that they are not intelligent. You give yourself the right to share freely and bluntly (often offending others) without affording others the same privilege.

[*********]

I'm frequently faced with more than I can handle. Many (most?) of us are, I'd assume. The trials my father went through this past year with his heart attack? Many, MANY moments that I could not handle. And other, even more personal situations in my life feel like more than I can bear at times.

But God.

 

Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content: I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. - Philippians 4:11-13

 

Without Jesus I am nothing and can do nothing. I mean that sincerely. He is my strength, my rock, my ever present help in times of trouble. And scripture promises us that He will be. On my own, I am useless and can do nothing. But through Christ alone can I persevere.

This life is full of hardships for everyone in our own ways. I cope by giving my burdens to Christ. When I try to carry them on my own, I fail miserably every time. Christ is what sustains me day to day.

[gardenmom5]

I'd just like to mention, in my experience,

sometimes bad things happen because that is life.

sometimes people make stupid choices and bad stuff that happens to them because they made stupid choices.  (the darwin awards comes to mind.  hmm, haven't been there in a while.  for those unfamiliar with the Darwin awards - they give an "award" to the person who most blessed the gene pool by removing themselves from it.  most notably in a stupid fashion.  they verify the stories - which they must do because some of them are spectacularly stupid.)

 

the ones that offend me the most - are the ones who openly tell the person experiencing difficulty because "bad stuff happens" that it's their own fault because they must be have done something wrong and god is punishing them.  I politely call them job's comforters.  (I also think it's a self-defense mechanism because if bad stuff only happens to bad people and they think they're good so nothing bad will happen to them. . . . . just you wait henry higgens. denile isn't a river in Egypt.)

[justamouse]

A lack of what to do with suffering I would say was the number one reason I went looking at other denominations. Name it claim it, prosperity...they just leave a &^%$ taste in your mouth when you're in the pits. Even the puritanical 'you must have sinned' is still out there with a new mask on. 

 

(I know you're not Catholic) when I'm in the throes of something, I often look to the lives of the saints and what they suffered. It helps a lot. 

 

 

[albeto.]

The prosperity gospel goes farther than just 'name it and claim it'.  It goes all the way to 'claim this verse out of context and interpret it to mean that God is bound to it although you have utterly failed to assess what He was actually saying in it'.  And that is completely unfair and extremely damaging.  It's wrong, misguided, and delusional.  It is no gospel at all.

 

I'm just using this post as a summary of this idea - "name it and claim it" people read the bible out of context, are misguided, and (I see you aren't mentioning this here but still) are self-serving.

 

When I became a Christian I was lovingly "adopted" by a group of really wonderful, genuinely compassionate, sincerely helpful, devout, sweet Charismatic Catholics ladies. Only later did I hear the phrase "name it and claim it" or "prosperity gospel" as an explanation for the things I'd been encouraged (and tried) to believe. Never once did I interpret my friends as being self-serving or afraid to share my suffering, or each others'. I suspect these comments are based on outside opinions rather than those who are/were closely united with people who interpret the gospel to encourage this belief. 

 

The thing is, this gospel message is perfectly biblically sound. There are numerous bible verses and references to this idea. The problem is, there are also numerous bible verses and references to opposing ideas. That's the difficulty with trying to figure out what the bible "really means." Reading it "in context" doesn't work, because these many verses and references support different contexts!

 

People leave their Christian faith just because the prosperity gospel doesn't work? I don't buy that for a second. Someone who believes there is a god, and that god knows and loves them, will find another way to read the bible "in context." People leave their Christian faith for a number of appropriate reasons. Ironically, the answers offered in this thread sound as trite to me as the answers the article seeks to correct. I suspect that people posting in this thread would feel the same if they'd read a thread about leaving the "real Muslim faith." It's only "real" to those who believe.

[bethben]

About a decade ago, I had a huge life event that caused me to rethink that trite phrase. Nowadays, when people throw it out in my earshot, I engage.

 

"What makes you think that?"

"If one could handle everything on his own, would he ever turn to God?"

"What then actually brings a person to her knees in prayer?"

 

I try to be very gentle about it, but I can't let it go. That would be leaving someone with a wrong view of both God and the walk of the believer.

 

Nice article, thanks for posting it.

 

Yup!  I was given more than I can handle 14 years ago.  It's made me very dependent upon God for every. little. thing including what kind of car we drive, what we do as a family, where we live.  Not much around here is done without prayer and a lot of other people support.  I get irritated when someone says that "God will not give you more than you can handle".  I feel like I give a mini-sermon about that verse.

 

Beth

[gardenmom5]

Yup!  I was given more than I can handle 14 years ago.  It's made me very dependent upon God for every. little. thing including what kind of car we drive, what we do as a family, where we live.  Not much around here is done without prayer and a lot of other people support.  I get irritated when someone says that "God will not give you more than you can handle".  I feel like I give a mini-sermon about that verse.

 

Beth

you can tell them their quote is incomplete.

 

God does not give us  more than we can handle WITH HIS HELP.  the point is, we need His help.

 

and often, - His idea of what we can deal with (with His help) and our idea of what we can deal with are different.

[Mrs Mungo]

We were recently listening to a collection of Kurt Vonnegut speeches in the car. Suddenly, my eldest said, "wasn't he an atheist?" I said, "yes." She said, "why is an atheist giving the best sermon on Christianity that I've ever heard?" Great question.

[Carol in Cal.]

Did y'all ever read Christy by Catherine Marshall?

It's a novel, but based on the life of CM's own mother.

 

There is this point that strikes me as true, and Truth, all the way.

 

It's late in the book.  Christy has accomplished quite a bit, but her best friend becomes gravely ill and then dies.  It's preventable, and it's horrible. 

 

So Christy is furious, and her older 'motherly' friend tells her to tell God that.  That  is extremely good advice.  After all, God knows anyhow.  Why not talk to Him about it?  Job did, David did, wrestling with these kinds of very serious rubber meets the road questions, right in the actual Bible.  Others did as well.  Tell Him.  Over and over.  This is what happened.  How could You let this happen?  This is not fair.  How can this be right?  Where are You?  What good are You?  Ask Him.  Seriously, do it.

 

In the book, Christy never gets an answer to why Fairlawn dies, but she becomes comforted by the absolute knowledge that she is loved.

 

That rings true.  And it sounds relevant.

 

 

 

[Ipsey]

But Joanne, our whole life is a journey. We cannot continue blaming others for long; things will always come back on us and how we choose to respond. Even if others have hurt us or led us astray, blaming them for awhile may feel good for us, but it never helps anything, and it certainly doesn't hold them accountable in any real way. We are the only ones to suffer for it.

 

May I paraphrase to show you why Joanne was hurt by this, because I don't really think you have understood.

 

"Joanne, you are blaming others for your hurt. You are a bully, blaming others for your failure to remain faithful. You're suffering for your own faithlessness and cruelty rather than managing to punish others as you mean to."

 

If that's what you have taken away from what Joanne has said. .  hmmm. 

 

Your response wasn't directed at me, but I too found it quite condemnatory, and don't think for a second that she was taking it too personally.  Ouch.

 

ETA: Oh, I saw your apology above. My bad! That was good of you, but I still think the paraphrase was sound, and I hope it helps you understand that it wasn't an issue of you being "unable to tiptoe" but clear statements that were hurtful. 

 

ETA: Duh. . . oh, you didn't actually apologize for what you said. I jumped the gun--failed critical reading there. 

[I.Dup.]

May I paraphrase to show you why Joanne was hurt by this, because I don't really think you have understood.

 

"Joanne, you are blaming others for your hurt. You are a bully, blaming others for your failure to remain faithful. You're suffering for your own faithlessness and cruelty rather than managing to punish others as you mean to."

 

That's a paraphrase??

 

Umm, okay. Either way, Joanne has posted many times that she has left the faith because of others, and then she lashes out at people who do not agree with her on various topics, calling them trite or insensitive or implying that they are not intelligent or simply have never suffered like she has.

 

My apology was for hurting her, if my words did, because that certainly was not my intent. I am so sorry for her suffering, and wish I could somehow take away her pain. I like Joanne.

 

She does not seem to have a problem speaking plainly and bluntly to people, so I would think she would afford other people that same privilege, but I guess not.