faiths13 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would love some opinions on this subject. My husband and I are new to Christianity. We have found a wonderful church in our new neighborhood and have been going 7 weeks today. My dh grew up in an Episcopal church, and I had very little religious background. Anyway, I feel at home with this church and am learning about the religion and reading the Bible. I have been teaching what I learn to my kids, as well as taking them to Sunday school. My dh and I are also going to an 8 week class to learn more about Christianity at the church. My oldest son who is 14 has now told me he is Atheist. It upsets me because I feel like I didnt teach him much about Christianity until now so he has formed his own opinions from outside sources. He is not open to it at all. He has an argument for every story in the Bible and is negative about God. And complains all the time about going to church, etc. I am just not sure if I should continue to have him go to church and teach him about it. I know it is possible that he can turn around and see things in a different way. I am worried he will just feel negatively about it and feel pushed away though. I feel very torn as what I should do. I know the whole thing is still new also. Unfortunately in the past I was uneducated about the Bible and Christianity and said some negative and incorrect things about it. I regret it very much. I honestly dont mind if he decides to not be Christian, but I would like him to at least have an open mind and explore religion and get to know God. So, what do you think? What would you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinmami01 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This is totally new to him, so I can see where this is awkward for him. However, he is 14. My son would be required to attend services with us. When he gets older, he is free to make his own decisions. I understand he's made up his mind that he's an atheist. Just remember, God is more than just religion, it's about relationship. God has to real to him. I can't imagine how difficult this is and not sure if what I would do would be helpful to you. (((((HUGS)))))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 There are some good books out there to refute atheism. Peter Hitchens wrote one to refute his brother Christopher's work entitled The Rage Against God: How Atheism Led Me to Faith. I would not require him to attend church at this stage, but I would have him read some of the books on the topic. He should also know that there is diversity among Christians as to the proper reading of Scripture. If he is having difficulty with a literal interpretation of the Bible, there are other denominations that take a more allegorical view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I honestly dont mind if he decides to not be Christian, but I would like him to at least have an open mind and explore religion and get to know God. See, now, I'm atheist, and I can't wrap my head around "getting to know God." That's no different to me than fairies or bigfoot. But to the point, there was a great thread not long ago: DS, 14, has decided God is a myth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would require a 14yo to go to any family activity that the rest of the family goes to, and that is how I would couch it. I would not expect him to "pretend" to believe, I would not lecture him on keeping an open mind, I would simply tell him you are in charge and he does what you do. He does not get to hang out at the house unrestricted for hours every Sunday while all of you are at church. If you were going for pizza and he did not like pizza I'm sure you would take him and order him some spaghetti, no? I would tell him to be respectful to others, and I would be respectful to him, and he can think whatever he wants. 14 is young, but he cannot change his mind without new information, and he cannot be allowed not to take in new information. In school he has to sit through classes where he does not like the teacher, or does not agree with the subjects themselves, but he does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faiths13 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thank you for the good points! Its funny because he believes in aliens but says God seems unrealistic. Lol. I don't really see that a person his age can be atheist when he has so little knowledge of the world and religion. I was at a point where I was an atheist when I was about 17. I really had no training or education in religion. I also thought I had all the answers lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Get him "The Magic of Reality." Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Its funny because he believes in aliens but says God seems unrealistic. Lol. I don't really see that a person his age can be atheist when he has so little knowledge of the world and religion. If a child can't be an atheist and NOT believe in God because they are a child with "so little knowledge", how the heck can they believe in God? They are still then a child with "so little knowledge." Wouldn't each belief set require the same level of knowledge of the world? Especially growing up outside of a faith as you say you are new to Christianity. My son declared his non-belief at age 3 (maybe when he was JUST 4, it's been awhile). He had just heard me give him a very basic rundown of core Christian beliefs about Jesus and he said in a very exacting voice "That can not possibly be true." He did not believe that resurrection was possible, in the least. He is almost 10 and is a very science oriented kid and is still very much an atheist with different beliefs from me, my husband and my family of origin. I teach him religious history and stories with a cultural significance. I teach him to be tolerant of other people's beliefs. But I do not try to tell him what to believe or convince him to believe differently. I think kids of all ages can form their own opinions. I grew up in a very religious home and my set of religious beliefs diverged from my parents long before I was 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 You can still require him to go to church with you, even if he is not open to your teaching him directly. He just has to go and behave himself. What he does in his heart is his own business; it is yours to see that he is exposed to religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 OP, have you shared with your son exactly what you shared with us in your original post? I would approach it as telling him how you were un-educated about it before and your regrets. When I change my mind about something that affects my DS, I find being honest with him and explaining my position as a fallible human who has made a mistake opens up his mind so he can hear me. I imagine a 14 year old would appreciate hearing that as well, especially on an issue this important to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think love and acceptance are the key at this point. Your son needs to know that you love and accept him even if his beliefs differ from yours. I think that is what Christianity ought to like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarynB Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think love and acceptance are the key at this point. Your son needs to know that you love and accept him even if his beliefs differ from yours. I think that is what Christianity ought to like. Very well-said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faiths13 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 OP, have you shared with your son exactly what you shared with us in your original post? I would approach it as telling him how you were un-educated about it before and your regrets. When I change my mind about something that affects my DS, I find being honest with him and explaining my position as a fallible human who has made a mistake opens up his mind so he can hear me. I imagine a 14 year old would appreciate hearing that as well, especially on an issue this important to you. That is a good point :) I don't think I've had that conversation with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faiths13 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think love and acceptance are the key at this point. Your son needs to know that you love and accept him even if his beliefs differ from yours. I think that is what Christianity ought to like. Yes this is true. I'm not judging him for what he feels right now. But I could probably talk to him to make sure he understands that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Aside from going to church and your family's devotional activities, can you approach teaching about Christianity academically, as part of his history class? What years of history are you studying now and can the Christian faith be discussed as part of that? Or geography-- discuss what religions are in the countries you are studying. Even if he does not want to make a point of belief right now, he still needs to know about it as a properly educated person, and that will come in useful to him later when he does come around. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillybell Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I can't really input on how to get him to change his mind because I am agnostic. However, I can give you some advise. I do not teach my girls to be agnostic but I do teach them to be open minded about all religion in general. I will be requiring them to learn about different world religions and probably read the bible. I read it from cover to cover when I was in college taking a theology course. That is where my search for the answers began. The co-op we attend is Christian and I have told my girls that although, I don't believe in the same thing, I don't expect them to sit there and share in my beliefs. I expect them to draw their own conclusions once they have become educated about all of world religion. You may want to take this type of an approach with him, maybe tell him that before he makes that decision and comes to that conclusion of being an atheist, he needs to become better educated in Christianity as well as have him learn about world religions. Show him that you are open to him learning about all of religion in general and not just your religion. No need to be upset over the belief system he chooses. As long as he is a good kid, contributes to the world, is good and considerate of others, then I think you are a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyMountain Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I didn't believe what they were teaching me in church at that age and was forced to go. I would do anything I could think of to get out of it but was still made to attend on a regular basis and go to the religious classes. All that did was cause resentment to me. As soon as I was old enough to decide for myself I stopped going and it was a relief. Being forced to go did not make me all of a sudden become religious and I got absolutely nothing from going to the classes. I always had a problem with daydreaming and focusing but I would learn a lot anyway but at those classes I would nod off and just not get anything because I didn't believe it. If my parents tried to get me to see the light it would have driven me away. I know my parents probably wish I go to church and was a believer but they respect me and accept me for who I am and I do likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 You can't just suddenly say to a 14 year old oh I know I said some negative things about christianity but now I have changed my mind and you have to too. Not and expect to keep his respect anyway. If he can't stay hone then find him a quiet place at church and let him read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 JMHO, but I think forcing him to attend church is the worst thing you could do if you want to have a chance at changing his beliefs. Live your beliefs, talk about them (gently) and let him see them in action. Forcing him to attend services is very likely to have the opposite effect you want. A 14-yo is plenty old enough to stay at home alone for a few hours a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaOz Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 OP, have you shared with your son exactly what you shared with us in your original post? I would approach it as telling him how you were un-educated about it before and your regrets. When I change my mind about something that affects my DS, I find being honest with him and explaining my position as a fallible human who has made a mistake opens up his mind so he can hear me. I imagine a 14 year old would appreciate hearing that as well, especially on an issue this important to you. Yes. Agree. I was going to say something similar. I think just being honest and open about what you are learning and thinking is the best reality he will see at this point. You can share what you are finding out in a conversational way - just like you would share about anything else. He might not be responsive on the outside but he will be watching and learning and gradually making decisions about whether it will be something he takes on board. As long as you keep being honest about changes in your views. All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 My oldest son has been an atheist most of his life. I was an ultra-conservative Christian for most of his childhood and his father was an unbeliever but not an atheist. My beliefs REQUIRED me to raise my children in my religion, so I did. Even though my husband was abusive and my son outweighed me by over 100 pounds at 14, they both KNEW I wasn't going to bend on this, because I believed God was bigger and badder than they were, and this was a hill I WOULD die on. I did not require my son to BELIEVE anything he did not want to, BUT he did LEARN a lot ABOUT Christianity, and was required to ATTEND family worship and church. My son is 26 now, and since about 18(?) claims that everything that has made him such a success in college and in adult life was learned during family worship time. He continues to be an atheist, but draws from his training. He started worrying at about 22(?) about how he was going to raise his children to receive the same training that he did without himself being a Christian. He married a Christian at 24 and had a serious talk with her pastor that deeply confused the poor man. He's looking for help from the church, instead of standing in the way of his wife and her pastor. EDIT: He doesn't have children yet. He's just THAT worried about how this is going to work. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would not require him to attend church. Is he attending with your or a youth group? I would not make him go to youth group at all. From my limited experience, youth groups can make him feel ostracized, even if he never says a word about his atheist beliefs. I would not force my child to attend any weekly meeting where his current POV was being criticized or with the undertones that atheists and non-christians are bad people. I would not want my son, regardless of my beliefs, to feel he couldn't be a moral person without a religion. I would ask that he be respectful of your new beliefs, but you can't force yours upon him. At 14 he certainly has enough knowledge to question his spirituality. Isn't the early teen years a common time to do that? It's also a common time for long-held unspoken beliefs to be aired in some kids. In my house, it would play out like this: My faith journey is my business, do not criticize me and I won't criticize you. Please be tolerant and respectful to your younger siblings about this. This doesn't change how I feel about you, I love you, no matter what. End of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdrumm4448 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 See, now, I'm atheist, and I can't wrap my head around "getting to know God." That's no different to me than fairies or bigfoot. God makes Himself known. All it takes is an open mind and heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 God makes Himself known. All it takes is an open mind and heart. I've heard the same about fairies and contrails and psychics. That's the problem with us pesky atheists/skeptics/freethinkers, we just won't "let" ourselves believe. Silly us. To quote Tim Minchin (who himself was paraphrasing): "If You Open Your Mind Too Much, Your Brains Will Fall Out (Take My Wife)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I suffer from severe Complex Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Despite my ultra-conservative Christian background, I no longer believe or have faith in the goodness and predictability of ANYTHING. I'm no longer a Christian. You cannot be a Christian if you don't believe. Has God fixed this? No, he hasn't. I refuse to shame myself for this symptom that is almost universal in trauma survivors. The Judeo-Christian god doesn't seem to be too quick to make himself know to trauma survivors, for whatever reasons that Christians want to cling to. Unfortunately they usually choose shaming reasons that re-traumatize victims. I believe that humans are both pack and spiritual creatures. I'll leave discussion of pack mentality for another post, but tackle our hunger for spirituality. Few humans exist in a healthy state without practicing some form of spirituality. Lots of art and nature can sometimes substitute for more organized spirituality. I believe it's usually best for a family to practice their spirituality together. I think 14 is too young for the family to split in this area. Other than new converts to traditional witchcraft that sometimes include children in activities that are not developmentally appropriate, I believe that children need to attend, and participate in at least a limited manner, in the family's chosen form of spirituality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I can't imagine what the pastor must have felt like, that's just extremely funny. Your son sounds like a special guy. Do you have any advice on this topic, from your current points of view and beliefs? My oldest is extremely interested in religion and wants to know as much as possible. She says she often talks to God. My younger kid, however, only tolerates attending services because he gets to see his friends, and despises family worship time. He is only four and has not said that he is an atheist, but I would not be surprised. I'll get back to you this afternoon. I have errands. :gnorsi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahliarw Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I wouldn't make a 14yo attend church if he is trustworthy enough to stay home alone (and I would tell him that). If he can not be trusted on his own, then he has to come because he needs to be safe, not because it is church. I'm Christian, have been all my life, if at 13 or 14 my kids decided they were not, I would not force them to attend church. I believe that at that age they are old enough to make the decision. I would let them know the invitation is open, and that I would love to have them there, but that it is up to them. I definitely would talk to him about your new beliefs, the things you were wrong about and why. Let him know that you're happy to discuss any of it with him if he has questions, etc. Then LIVE like a Christian and let him see your example shine. I believe example can be the best testimony. Let him see you read your Bible. Purposely have discussions about the Bible/Christianity with your husband around the dinner table where he can hear, but doesn't have to participate. Hold family devotionals and let him know he is welcome to participate but does not have to. Invite Christian friends over to your house (but let them know to not pressure your ds because that could push him away). Be guarded to not be hypocritical when it comes to religion (which is something that turns a lot of people off to Christianity). Most of all, pray, pray, pray. You can even let your ds know you pray about him and that you thank God for him in a round about way. If he sees the change in you and your husband, if he sees the benefits of being a Christian first hand, it might turn him on to it and his mind might be changed. Forcing it down his throat would not accomplish this, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 My big boys really like Tim Minchin. They particularly like storm. However, I don't know that this is particularly helpful to the OP. lol Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I wouldn't force faith on a 14 year old. Just show by example. Teach them to respect other people's faith by respecting what they believe as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The Bible addresses how to train up a child, but also how to handle a non-believing adult. I think for many parents it may be difficult to discern the difference. I know a teen is young. But, IMO, from a 'train up' standpoint the ship may have sailed. KIWM? In that instance, I would look to the Sciptures that tell us to pray, teach by example, and extend grace remembering that we too were once blind. The blind cannot be made to see by the acts of man, they can be guided by a loving companion. In Acts the early church members were instructed to comport themselves in a Christlike way so that when God sent them new disciples they could properly teach those individuals. We are taught that one person plants the seed, another nutures and cares for it and yet another may reap the harvest. Above all, it is the Shepherd that calls His sheep. He knows them and will move them in His time. I would not place any expectations on a child or adult of any age. If I express disappointment, it would be in terms of "I truly believe that I will have eternity with God and I am saddened that you might not." But I would quickly follow that up with a statement of faith that I can't see the future and will continue to pray for the person (even though I know a non-believer might be offended by this). If they respond that they don't believe, then I would share that God does not require our belief to exist, that I do believe and that it will be of comfort to me to pray even if the person who is subject of the prayer doesn't believe. IMO, the key to extending grace and standing strong in one's own faith is to know your beliefs. Know them and act accordingly regardless of outside stimulus. Believe that if God has called that person, He will keep searching and calling until the person if found. Believe that if you have prayed for that person, God will answer your prayers. Be still and know that He is. Then, in your daily prayers, each day, ask God to guide your words and deeds to bring Him glory. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Requiring a 14yo to go to church with the family isn't forcing him to believe anything. It's showing him that as a family, we go to church because it is important. He doesn't have to go to youth group if he doesn't want to, but he should at least go to the worship service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 First, Beth, I don't know if the names in your signature are your kids real names, but I really like them! Have I said that before? I know that I have thought it. You can't force your son into faith. You can explain that this is an activity that brings you joy or peace or happiness or whatever. You can explain that this is something that you want the whole family to do as a family. You can request that out of respect for you that you would greatly appreciate it if he would attempt to have a good attitude and play along like you have done for him on various activities, play groups, etc. I mean really as a mom I feel like a huge chunk of my time is spent organizing and attending activities for my kids. I am not complaining. This is what I signed up for, but at 14yo I would expect my child to be able to reciprocate and do something with me just because it is an activity I enjoy while keeping a good attitude even if it was something that wasn't particularly fun for him. Can he just view it as a social group or a mommy play date that he is obligated to chaperone each week where he watches mommy have a good time and tries to be happy for her? Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Like others, I encourage you to let him know about your change of heart - I think that information has potential to impact him for good. I encourage you to teach your son about your beliefs. it is the teaching parents are responsible for, the Holy Spirit is responsible for the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 My big boys really like Tim Minchin. They particularly like storm. However, I don't know that this is particularly helpful to the OP. lol Mandy The point was brought up that God is discoverable through his works if we're only just willing to open our minds and hearts to see him. It's not necessarily a convincing argument, and is certainly a patronizing one. It might be informative as to how not to try to deal with the situation. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The Bible addresses how to train up a child, but also how to handle a non-believing adult. I think for many parents it may be difficult to discern the difference. I know a teen is young. But, IMO, from a 'train up' standpoint the ship may have sailed. KIWM? I don't find any scriptures that back up this idea, though. There isn't a time limit on the training. There is only a distinction between "child" and "old." A lot of training goes on between those two points in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I was stating an opinion with regard to treating the 14 y.o. as an adult. I do not consider "training" and "teaching" to be interchageable words in the context of Scripture. Thus a teen may be teachable, but not necessarily trainable. However it really doesn't matter what I think. As I made clear in the entirety of my post, God is ultimately in control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I just want to echo what elegantlion said about youth group. I believe a strong case can be made for being hauled along to the parents' choice of worship as a minor child, but I don't think that extends to being immersed in the whole church culture. Sitting through the weekly worship service, he probably should be able to do that even if he thinks he's outside it, above it, beyond it, hating it...probably millions of people go to church with a believer to support their friend/loved one in something that means a great deal to them, not because they agree at all. Sunday school and youth group should be for kids who can tolerate being there, IMO. My kids are Christians but don't go to either, because the environment is kind of stupid. There's something about how SS and youth group are done these days that can be really off-putting to a smart and wise (and skeptical) kid. It doesn't make them snobby OR faithless to not like that environment; my kids are friends with youth group kids from our church! They do stuff together and hang out. Just not in youth group....and my kids do have religious instruction at home. Anyway, there's my two cents. I'd want him to "come to church" but not require him to go to religious ed classes, youth group, church camp, Christian concerts, etc. if he doesn't want to. And if going to worship service at your church means lots of pressure and you think it might drive him farther away, be really careful to consider that. Oops, one more cent: We have people in our church's youth group and in our Sunday morning worship who are not Christ-followers. They come because they like the activities, they like the kids, and they like being accepted. So if he's a "joiner" and looking for more friends, and likes the kids at your church as long as he doesn't have to pretend to be a Christian, that can be a good fit, too. Wow, a whole lot of this depends on how your church treats teens who don't fully subscribe to everything being taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Since he seems to have all the answers, why not provide him with some challenges. Here is a podcast library specifically for teens: http://www.str.org/p...bulletproof.xml The website these podcasts come from is: http://www.str.org They're an apologist group who actually have some Atheists regularly call into their show. Everyone is very civil and polite. Views are discussed and challenged. I would encourage you to preview the website. Read about the speakers: Greg Koukl (more for adults); Brett Kunkle (Teens & college), Alan Shlemon (Answers criticisms of Christianity) and J. Warner Wallace (a former cold-case detective and former Atheist who became a Christian utilizing his skills as a detective to investigate the claims of Christianity.) See if he'll listen to any of the podcasts. Maybe you could make a deal and tell him if he listens to the podcasts, he won't have to attend church. You would have to devise some way of making sure he actually listens to the podcasts though. Even allow him to choose which speaker and topic he wishes to listen to. This way, he'll still be getting educated about Christianity, (actually a deeper education) and not be forced to attend a regular church. He may just end up liking the challenges and call in or email questions to STR himself. Bottom line is, you really can't force someone to be a Christian. However, explain to him that you wish him to be well informed about what real Christianity is. There are a lot of misconceptions out there spread by the media and Atheists, as well as misinformed Christians. Tell him you want to give him a balance so he's sure that what he believes is true. Stress that you will love him in any event, but that if he wants you to have an open mind about his religion (Atheism is a religion) then he should also do the same and keep an open mind about your chosen religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faiths13 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Well my ds goes to his "class" on Sunday, then after that he gets to have pancakes and play video games for an hour or so. So Im certainly not torturing him, lol. And after that he gets cookies (which he loves, lol). Then he goes to youth group on Wed, and he has made friends there. They do fun stuff and get treats. I know he likes the youth group and the video gaming. I am not forcing him to believe what I believe or telling him he has to believe it. There has been times he's been open and even interested. One time at youth group they were praying and I asked him if he did and he said he did. They prayed silently, so he didnt have to, but he chose to. So I see a part of him that is open and interested. He says he believes in evolution and thats why he doesnt believe in God. I asked him what he viewpoint/beliefs were on that and he didnt have much to say. It seemed more like something he had heard but didnt know much about. I asked him to research it so we could talk more about what he thinks/belives, but he had no interest. I understand that he is getting older and able to form his own opions, but I dont think he is really an atheist yet.I think he needs exposure to more to make a decision. Im sure many will disagree, and thats fine. I have gone through the gammit of being atheist, pagan, and studying Buddhism . I think its important to expose and teach him about God and Christianity as well as other religions. This thread was not started as a way to have atheists get angry or start an agreement and def not to be judged. I appreciate the kind words from those that have given them so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I just want to echo what elegantlion said about youth group. I believe a strong case can be made for being hauled along to the parents' choice of worship as a minor child, but I don't think that extends to being immersed in the whole church culture. Sitting through the weekly worship service, he probably should be able to do that even if he thinks he's outside it, above it, beyond it, hating it...probably millions of people go to church with a believer to support their friend/loved one in something that means a great deal to them, not because they agree at all. Sunday school and youth group should be for kids who can tolerate being there, IMO. My kids are Christians but don't go to either, because the environment is kind of stupid. There's something about how SS and youth group are done these days that can be really off-putting to a smart and wise (and skeptical) kid. It doesn't make them snobby OR faithless to not like that environment; my kids are friends with youth group kids from our church! They do stuff together and hang out. Just not in youth group....and my kids do have religious instruction at home. Anyway, there's my two cents. I'd want him to "come to church" but not require him to go to religious ed classes, youth group, church camp, Christian concerts, etc. if he doesn't want to. And if going to worship service at your church means lots of pressure and you think it might drive him farther away, Oops, one more cent: We have people in our church's youth group and in our Sunday morning worship who are not Christ-followers. They come because they like the activities, they like the kids, and they like being accepted. So if he's a "joiner" and looking for more friends, and likes the kids at your church as long as he doesn't have to pretend to be a Christian, that can be a good fit, too. Wow, a whole lot of this depends on how your church treats teens who don't fully subscribe to everything being taught. I agree. I also find many SS classes shallow and just pontificating on the feel good, cartoonish "story" aspect rather than getting into the meat of the text. I like to teach my dd what the deeper meaning of each passage of the Bible means. How can we know it's true, what archeology is out there that backs up the historicity of the passage? We try to delve deeply. What actually is the Bible? A book of stories? No, it's 66 historical documents, written by 44 real people who lived thousands of years ago, and we know this because we have over 6,000+ fragments/parchments/papyrus scrolls..... Unfortunately, we don't give our kids a deeper understanding of the actual history or context of the Bible. This is, I think, where the church and Christian parents (myself included with my first dd) have failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenn- Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I didn't believe what they were teaching me in church at that age and was forced to go. I would do anything I could think of to get out of it but was still made to attend on a regular basis and go to the religious classes. All that did was cause resentment to me. As soon as I was old enough to decide for myself I stopped going and it was a relief. Being forced to go did not make me all of a sudden become religious and I got absolutely nothing from going to the classes. I always had a problem with daydreaming and focusing but I would learn a lot anyway but at those classes I would nod off and just not get anything because I didn't believe it. If my parents tried to get me to see the light it would have driven me away. I know my parents probably wish I go to church and was a believer but they respect me and accept me for who I am and I do likewise. This is my experience exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeritasMama Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I would have your 14 year old study Christianity from a historical viewpoint. The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel is written by a former atheist who converted after extensively investigating the historical accuracy of the New Testament. It is Protestant, but presents some great historical information that most people today simply never are exposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I can't imagine what the pastor must have felt like, that's just extremely funny. Your son sounds like a special guy. Do you have any advice on this topic, from your current points of view and beliefs? My oldest is extremely interested in religion and wants to know as much as possible. She says she often talks to God. My younger kid, however, only tolerates attending services because he gets to see his friends, and despises family worship time. He is only four and has not said that he is an atheist, but I would not be surprised. I think some children despise parts of family worship that have nothing to do with spirituality or beliefs. Sometimes they just want to be elsewhere. Sometimes they exaggerate their unbelief to try and engage in an alternate activity. This is why I strongly advocate keeping children and teens with the family during public and family worship. I think they are developmentally unprepared to be responsible for the results of being given the chance to take the lazy way out. The Jewish people have always had a high level of education, even among poorer families. Studies have shown that the study of core texts, history, worship music and foreign language prepare the mind well for further studies of all types. So many school subjects are studied during worship and religious studies. Before public schools were started, New England had a higher literacy rate than it does now; the church taught people to read the Bible and to memorize a catechism. Not only do children have the right to THINK what they want, they also have the right not to be shamed and frightened for their thoughts. I agree with the poster that said youth group should not be a forced activity. I kept my atheist child right by my side and protected him, as I began to better understand that he needed me to do that. As for the OPs concerns about science, I rest in the Mennonite view, that God is bigger than science. He is not bound by the rules of science. Also the Judeo-Christian god is not big on letting us peons in on the big plan. Who knows what he is up to when it comes to all this science that APPEARS right NOW to look like it conflicts with the Bible. There have been all sorts of discrepancies in the past that people struggled with, that secular scholars have now decided line up perfectly with the Bible after all. Most Amish and Mennonites just say, "I don't know" and "I trust my God more than man". And then they go right back to thinking about their jobs, families and what's for supper, and let "the English" waste their time with their arrogance and endless debates. The Mennonites are barely finding time to cover the science in baking, simple tools, cleaning, parasites, fertilizer and other information they USE on a daily basis. They don't go looking for problems or anything more to fill an already bloated curriculum. Despite no longer being Mennonite or Christian, I still follow their lead in this area. Some of us have different parenting styles, are ultra-conservative or ultra-liberal, and have different ideas about what ages define a child. Being 14 is a hot topic that might be even bigger than spirituality. I personally looked at 18 as the cut off with my boys. And at that cut-off point, it was for everything. They were never given a period of having their cake and being able to eat it too. And at past 18, as long as they lived under the roof of the person paying for it, there were still certain things required of them if they chose to remain a MEMBER of the family residing under that roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollyh Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 From your description, it sounds like he is responding like he has been taught from his limited 14 years of experience on this earth from friends, media, etc. His heart does not seem completely closed off to God. I would do as pp said and have a heart to heart conversation with him about your expectations and let him know that you will love him no matter what he believes, but that you would like him to continue studying and learning. I would ask him specifically what he believes, and why he believes it. Without judgement, ask him why he doesn't believe in God and what holds him back. Then take that information and find books, etc. for him to read that will help him explore that further. If evolution is his reasoning- then fine if he has a different belief. However, let's get some books to help him develop his beliefs further with more evidence. That can be his science this year - he can back up his beliefs by studying the different beliefs on evolution/creationism. ;) He can compare/contrast, etc. If you don't know what books/resources to use, ask here for suggestions, or PM someone, I know I would be happy to help. :) BTW, in general, the first book I would have him read is The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel, who was an atheist prior to writing the book. Praying for your son and for your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgiven Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 My only advice is to pray, pray, and pray. Pray that God sends a Christian friend into his life because let's face it. A 14-year-old is more likely to listen to a peer than to his mom. ;) Pray that God softens his heart. Pray that his wall get torn down so that he is open to conversation about it. I also agree that you being totally honest with him about everything you believed before and how/why you have come into faith is great. Pray before the conversation with your son and then pray afterward. Pray, pray, pray. Okay, so I guess you could say I'm a holy roller, but honestly, I believe in the power of prayer. Bring your son to church with you. I know that some people think that a 14-year-old should be able to make their own choice in going or not, but you're the mom. He is still under your protection. He is your responsibility. Even if he sits in service or in Sunday school with his arms folded and a scowl on his face, bring him. And pray. ;) Make sure he's doing all the fun stuff at church. A lot of churches have game nights for the teenagers. Get him connected with the youth group. Make sure he's getting introduced to others his age. He may be very surprised to find that these Christian teenagers are a lot like him in so many ways. And guess what! These Christian Teenagers aren't perfect at all. No one is. Especially in a church. I always laugh when people say that churches are full of hypocrits because we're all hypocrits. :) Ah, I digress. Oh, there's a great book out there called "The Case for Christ". It was written by a man who was an Athiest and he decided to research Christianity to prove to his wife, who had recently found Christ, that The Bible wasn't true and that Christ wasn't God, etc. He set out to prove Christianity false and found out the opposite. He was a criminal journalist, so he is a researcher by trade. The book is by Lee Strobel. It's a great read, and for logical people, an eye-opener. I had faith before hand, but it cemented any and all beliefs I had. Anyway, I guess you can guess what my final thoughts are: Pray. Best of luck to you. I'll pray for you and your family. God bless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Requiring a 14yo to go to church with the family isn't forcing him to believe anything. It's showing him that as a family, we go to church because it is important. He doesn't have to go to youth group if he doesn't want to, but he should at least go to the worship service. Requiring a 14 yo to go to church, when it is a new "idea" that his parents had a few weeks ago, is a little different than requiring a child to attend church who has parents who've had the same beliefs forever. I can totally see how a kid that age would wonder what had suddenly changed. I speak from the POV of my dh, whose fraught relationship with his mother started when she abruptly changed her religious views and started requiring him and his younger sibs (and her new dh) to attend church "together as a family." He believed she was being hypocritical. He thought she wanted him to become something he wasn't to please her new husband. His POV was that she could please him all she wanted to, he wasn't inclined to do that. And that seems pretty logical to me. ITA with the poster who suggested winning him over with your genuine loving, new-found Christianity. I think getting authoritarian with a 14 yo over church attendance is unlikely to achieve the end the OP presumably has in mind (making him into a Christian too, right?) and more likely to cement his atheism more than it already was. You may be able to make his refusal so irksome that he'll eventually give up and attend, but is that really what you want? To me, that's way more Javert than Jean Valjean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Evolution is the change within species over time. There are evolutionary biologists who do believe in God and evolutionary biologists who don't. If he wants to believe in God and also believes the theory of evolution to be correct, he can. It prevents him being a young Earth Christian, but that's not the only kind of Christian there is to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 How Do You Spell God? Answers to the Big Questions From Around the World is a book that discusses, in an informal way, different religions. http://www.amazon.com/How-Do-You-Spell-God/dp/0688152961/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363652447&sr=8-1&keywords=how+do+you+spell+god If your ds is intellectually curious, he might like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellalarella Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I would not require him to attend church. Is he attending with your or a youth group? I would not make him go to youth group at all. I totally agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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