Need some parenting views from a broad spectrum

[Elizabeth in MN]

Today was a great day for my little family. My dd got her braces tightened, we got to hang out with some friends, ate at a Chinese buffet and even got the oil change in the car.

 

But it all came crashing down this evening.

 

It turns out that my twelve year old dd and the eleven year old ds of my friend managed three kisses - one on the boy's head and one on the cheek and hand for my dd. No parent knew about the kissing until the youngest dd told the other mother.

 

The other mother is flipped a bit out. Mind you, she's not banning us from her life but she feels that it was deeply inappropriate and now the kids have to be supervised at all times when they are together. I'm a bit more mellow about the issue. My view is that yes, they are too young to be kissing. No, they can not go into a room together and close the door until they are over eighteen and married. It's normal and kinda scary for all of us but it's part of life. The "no dating until you're sixteen and then only in groups" rule still applies.

 

My dd is horrified, ashamed, mortified and several other adverbs (adjectives?) that I can't think of right now. She never wants to see the other family because she is so embarrassed.

 

So what are your-alls thoughts? Should I get a chastity belt and send her to the nunnery? Should I get my dd on birth control then offer to rent them a room? (Neither is an option I'm gonna do - I'm just kinda making this over the top to get some laughs at a serious situation)

 

To keep the Moderators happy - this is homeschool related because all the kids involved are homeschooled.

 

Also, I'd like a fruity but alcoholic beverage for dealing with two upset but lovely females so close to bedtime : D

[Mrs Mungo]

I have Mike's Pink Lemonade, a nice Spatlese or Margaritas, take your pick!

 

I would not think it was a big deal, they were not KISSING kissing, kwim? I would supervise them more closely and would have talked to the other parents about it to make sure they supervised them more closely too, but that is about it.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Pamela H in Texas]

Elizabeth, have you read the other thread about kids the same age?

 

Seriously, I think both of your views are valid. I tend to agree with the other mother about plenty of supervision, but with your attitude about it. It is new, normal, scary, and life. This is y'all's opportunity to guide your kids, set boundaries, discuss things, etc.

 

And your daughter's reaction is fine. One of the natural consequences in life is that other people often know what we do whether we like it or not. If we don't want people to find out, then it is probably best not to engage in the behavior (at this time, at that place, whatever). This is an important realization about life. Thankfully, she's finding it out about some fairly innocent kisses rather than anything more problematic.

 

JMO, of course....

[kalanamak]

 

It turns out that my twelve year old dd and the eleven year old ds of my friend managed three kisses - one on the boy's head and one on the cheek and hand for my dd.

 

For me, this would be the biggest ho hum of the week.

[Barb_]

Totally normal and developmentally appropriate, IMO. Your friend needs a few deep breaths and a fruity cocktail of her own. :grouphug:

[Jennifer3141]

For me, this would be the biggest ho hum of the week.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And I would probably think twice before hanging out with this family too much again.

[GWOB]

Take the other mom out to a bar. Order the largest margaritas available. Cry over the fact that, despite your best efforts, your children are human. Resolve to talk to your kids about appropriate behavior. Laugh about it when these kids don't even remember each other in 3 years.

 

I am solidly in the "Kids do not need to grow up too fast" camp, but I see this type of behavior as totally normal. Just talk to your daughter about her feelings. There should be no shame attached to finding a boy attractive or being slightly curious. Though my oldest turned 12 yesterday, I am pretty sure this behavior is completely normal. I would just talk to my dd about boundaries, respecting herself, and age-appropriate behavior. No loss of sleep necessary.

[IsabelC]

What Wendi said.

[annandatje]

And I would probably think twice before hanging out with this family too much again.

 

:iagree: The mother's over the top reaction is unhealthy and could be misinterpreted by the adolescents involved. It is almost as if she is sexualizing normal innocent actions. Her response to such matters is bound to eventually invoke guilt or, worse yet, deceit in her own children.

 

Totally normal and developmentally appropriate, IMO. Your friend needs a few deep breaths and a fruity cocktail of her own. :grouphug:

:iagree:Maybe a spiced tEa .. I can never remember the upper case sequence of the code word.

 

For me, this would be the biggest ho hum of the week.

 

I feel sorry for your daughter's humiliation; give her lots of loving reassurance and hugs.

[kitten18]

I have Mike's Pink Lemonade, a nice Spatlese or Margaritas, take your pick!

 

I would not think it was a big deal, they were KISSING kissing, kwim? I would supervise them more closely and would have talked to the other parents about it to make sure they supervised them more closely too, but that is about it.

 

Totally normal and developmentally appropriate, IMO. Your friend needs a few deep breaths and a fruity cocktail of her own. :grouphug:

:iagree:

[Elizabeth in MN]

Elizabeth, have you read the other thread about kids the same age?

 

No, I haven't seen it. Link me please?

 

All the responses so far have me nodding in agreement. I really love the other family in this situation so I'd rather not not hang out with them. However, winter is coming and we won't see each other as much.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Agreeing with the others that these people are not a good influence for your dd, not because their son is a kisser but because they are wigging out in a way that contributes to unnecessary shame and guilt on her part.

 

If they can't be matter-of-fact about these incidents, don't let them be the people you trust to supervise your daughter. Of course the children should be supervised. Of course there should be loving discussion. But if a 12yo girl is made to feel like a harlot or something over three such kisses, she will associate all intimacies with shame and drama. I mean, if the sky falls over a kiss on the hand, there aren't enough steps between that and how parents should react to them actually having s*x.

 

If young people can't tell their parents about small things in their relationships, or even that they feel they have relationships, they sure aren't going to tell about the big things. They won't ask their questions or give you clues; they'll sneak and feel rebellious in every interaction with the opposite sex, putting themselves in risky situations...

 

And that's how you end up with pregnant teens. Scared to talk to you, short on information, operating without proper perspective or reasonable supervision.

[dangermom]

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Tibbie. I wouldn't be thrilled if my 12yo daughter was involved in that, but really it's not a big deal. The embarrassment of everyone knowing that it happened is plenty of consequence!

 

Seriously, an 11yo boy did that? All the 11yo boys I know are still in the 'girls are icky, let's tell fart jokes' stage.

[Elizabeth in MN]

Seriously, an 11yo boy did that? All the 11yo boys I know are still in the 'girls are icky, let's tell fart jokes' stage.

 

Oh, he still does the potty humor jokes. Drives my dd batty with them. Hence the shock about the kisses. My dd did kiss him too, so he's not all to blame : D

[Incognito]

How'd they manage it at a Chinese restaurant with so many people there, that's what I want to know?! :P

 

I wouldn't worry about it. And if the boy is their oldest child, maybe the mom just needs to have a day or two to calm down about it and it'll be fine. If she really is THAT upset about it forever, and she is a friend, I'd try talking with her about it sans kids (about the stuff mentioned above).

Edited August 24, 2012 by Tjej

[GWOB]

Oh, he still does the potty humor jokes. Drives my dd batty with them. Hence the shock about the kisses. My dd did kiss him too, so he's not all to blame : D

 

Seriously, they kissed, and not even on the mouth. It's not like they wer dry humping (sorry to be crude, but perspective and all that). My 12yo girl cannot even watch cartoon characters kiss, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask. Poor girl cannot even stomach the fact that her dad and I kiss. A lot. (I take my duty to embarrass my kids seriously.) I have a great, conservative hs friend whose 7yo daughter constantly hugs and kisses my 9yo son. They honestly do not know what they are doing. We adults sometimes need to stop projecting adult behaviors onto our innocent kids.

[IsabelC]

Poor girl cannot even stomach the fact that her dad and I kiss. A lot. (I take my duty to embarrass my kids seriously.)

ROFL

 

My kids tell me "You don't need to cuddle daddy in the day time because you get to cuddle him all night". Sadly, I tend to mostly SLEEP at night :lol:

[phathui5]

It sounds like the other mom is overreacting.

[SunieDawn]

I agree with Tibbie. I would be more concerned about the emotional trauma for the kids--not because of the kissing but the extreme over reaction. At that age they should be supervised, but kissing is not from the devil and should not be treated as such.

 

We certainly don't encourage the behavior, but we also do not shame the children. We have to be open and understanding (even if we are horrified and screaming on the inside) otherwise our children will never trust us with the big secrets.

 

Take a deep breathe, Mama. Enjoy each moment with your kids, they grow up fast:001_unsure:

[Rosie_0801]

So how old do you have to be to kiss someone's hand?

 

 

Absolutely agreeing with Tibby.

 

Rosie

[IsabelC]

My little Ms 4 kissed my hand yesterday! :ohmy:

[Joyofsixreboot]

Agreeing with the others that these people are not a good influence for your dd, not because their son is a kisser but because they are wigging out in a way that contributes to unnecessary shame and guilt on her part.

 

If they can't be matter-of-fact about these incidents, don't let them be the people you trust to supervise your daughter. Of course the children should be supervised. Of course there should be loving discussion. But if a 12yo girl is made to feel like a harlot or something over three such kisses, she will associate all intimacies with shame and drama. I mean, if the sky falls over a kiss on the hand, there aren't enough steps between that and how parents should react to them actually having s*x.

 

If young people can't tell their parents about small things in their relationships, or even that they feel they have relationships, they sure aren't going to tell about the big things. They won't ask their questions or give you clues; they'll sneak and feel rebellious in every interaction with the opposite sex, putting themselves in risky situations...

 

And that's how you end up with pregnant teens. Scared to talk to you, short on information, operating without proper perspective or reasonable supervision.

 

All that.:iagree:

[Momof3littles]

Take the other mom out to a bar. Order the largest margaritas available. Cry over the fact that, despite your best efforts, your children are human. Resolve to talk to your kids about appropriate behavior. Laugh about it when these kids don't even remember each other in 3 years.

 

I am solidly in the "Kids do not need to grow up too fast" camp, but I see this type of behavior as totally normal. Just talk to your daughter about her feelings. There should be no shame attached to finding a boy attractive or being slightly curious. Though my oldest turned 12 yesterday, I am pretty sure this behavior is completely normal. I would just talk to my dd about boundaries, respecting herself, and age-appropriate behavior. No loss of sleep necessary.

I love this and :iagree:

[Beth in OH]

Totally normal and developmentally appropriate, IMO. Your friend needs a few deep breaths and a fruity cocktail of her own. :grouphug:

 

 

:iagree: Absolutely. This was happening at 11 and 12 at least 40 years ago ;)

[ktgrok]

Not a huge deal. They weren't making out, these were innocent kisses. Heck, I kissed a boy on the cheek in preschool, lol.

 

I don't allow dating at that age,or making out, or whatever, but a kiss on the cheek seems like just exploring and not dangerous, especially now that DD knows that everyone knows.

[Wheres Toto]

Agreeing with the others that these people are not a good influence for your dd, not because their son is a kisser but because they are wigging out in a way that contributes to unnecessary shame and guilt on her part.

 

If they can't be matter-of-fact about these incidents, don't let them be the people you trust to supervise your daughter. Of course the children should be supervised. Of course there should be loving discussion. But if a 12yo girl is made to feel like a harlot or something over three such kisses, she will associate all intimacies with shame and drama. I mean, if the sky falls over a kiss on the hand, there aren't enough steps between that and how parents should react to them actually having s*x.

 

If young people can't tell their parents about small things in their relationships, or even that they feel they have relationships, they sure aren't going to tell about the big things. They won't ask their questions or give you clues; they'll sneak and feel rebellious in every interaction with the opposite sex, putting themselves in risky situations...

 

And that's how you end up with pregnant teens. Scared to talk to you, short on information, operating without proper perspective or reasonable supervision.

 

:iagree:

[TXMomof4]

:iagree: Absolutely. This was happening at 11 and 12 at least 40 years ago ;)

 

:iagree: And a 100 years ago the girl would have been married at 13 and having kids! Completely normal - good for you for talking to your dd and give her a big hug. Growing up is so hard - so many mistakes to make - how did we get it all done and become adults?

[fairfarmhand]

 

And your daughter's reaction is fine. One of the natural consequences in life is that other people often know what we do whether we like it or not. If we don't want people to find out, then it is probably best not to engage in the behavior (at this time, at that place, whatever). This is an important realization about life. Thankfully, she's finding it out about some fairly innocent kisses rather than anything more problematic.

 

this is my take.

[Kathryn]

Agreeing with the others that these people are not a good influence for your dd, not because their son is a kisser but because they are wigging out in a way that contributes to unnecessary shame and guilt on her part.

 

If they can't be matter-of-fact about these incidents, don't let them be the people you trust to supervise your daughter. Of course the children should be supervised. Of course there should be loving discussion. But if a 12yo girl is made to feel like a harlot or something over three such kisses, she will associate all intimacies with shame and drama. I mean, if the sky falls over a kiss on the hand, there aren't enough steps between that and how parents should react to them actually having s*x.

 

If young people can't tell their parents about small things in their relationships, or even that they feel they have relationships, they sure aren't going to tell about the big things. They won't ask their questions or give you clues; they'll sneak and feel rebellious in every interaction with the opposite sex, putting themselves in risky situations...

 

And that's how you end up with pregnant teens. Scared to talk to you, short on information, operating without proper perspective or reasonable supervision.

 

:iagree: and with everyone else. NOT a big deal, completely normal and age appropriate. They weren't making out, they weren't even kissing on the lips. I'd just tell DD that I didn't approve of it and watch them more closely. End of story.

[Katy]

Maybe it's that a boy from church used to kiss my hand and cheek when I was 3, but I guess I don't see why the other mother is making such a big deal of this. I take it from the "not alone in a room together until 18 & married" statement that both families are pretty conservative Christians?

 

Is this mother of the variety that believes only in courtship, and not in even having crushes until the boy is of courtship age?

 

They didn't even kiss on the lips. It's normal. Your daughter's mortification about the other mother's reaction is normal.

 

If you are going to continue to have her spend time with families with rather fundamentalist views, you perhaps should inform her that *other* families do not see this as innocent. And maybe limit your time with them unless you want to risk her adopting the same sort of views.

 

Since you haven't seen some of the other threads about middle schoolers, some public school kids are having sex (or versions of sex) at 11, and there are some instances of 9 year olds having babies (though there was an issue of whether or not that would have to have come from abuse). You probably don't want to look at those threads.

[Elizabeth in MN]

Maybe it's that a boy from church used to kiss my hand and cheek when I was 3, but I guess I don't see why the other mother is making such a big deal of this. I take it from the "not alone in a room together until 18 & married" statement that both families are pretty conservative Christians?

 

See, that's the funny part. Neither of us are conservative in any way, shape, manner, or form. We are Christian, but very liberal. Yes, I'd love to see my dd married before she has sex but I don't think she'll burn in Hell if she does.

 

Today the other mother is a lot more calm. My own home is pretty calm too, though my dd is still coming to terms with all of this. I've told her over and over that she did nothing bad, that it's just a part of growing up. Hopefully that is sinking in and helping her get over her mortification : )

 

Thank you all!

[QueenCat]

Totally normal and developmentally appropriate, IMO. Your friend needs a few deep breaths and a fruity cocktail of her own. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:100%

[jujsky]

It's not big deal and the other mom is blowing it WAY out of proportion. It's not like they even kissed on the lips or anything.

[Farrar]

I think she should show the other mother the other thread, you know, to put a couple of harmless little pecks into perspective.

 

Another vote that it's normal. A little surprising if you're unprepared for a kid to grow up, but I guess I'd think it was sort of sweet.

[TranquilMind]

Elizabeth in MN; Today was a great day for my little family. My dd got her braces tightened, we got to hang out with some friends, ate at a Chinese buffet and even got the oil change in the car.

 

But it all came crashing down this evening.

 

It turns out that my twelve year old dd and the eleven year old ds of my friend managed three kisses - one on the boy's head and one on the cheek and hand for my dd. No parent knew about the kissing until the youngest dd told the other mother.

 

The other mother is flipped a bit out. Mind you, she's not banning us from her life but she feels that it was deeply inappropriate and now the kids have to be supervised at all times when they are together. I'm a bit more mellow about the issue. My view is that yes, they are too young to be kissing. No, they can not go into a room together and close the door until they are over eighteen and married. It's normal and kinda scary for all of us but it's part of life. The "no dating until you're sixteen and then only in groups" rule still applies.

 

 

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous! She is 12 and kissed him three times, not even on the lips? They were probably playing around. Or she might have a crush on him. This is just no big deal.

 

This is where someone says, "Hey, what was going on? I heard there was some kissing involved?" and gets the story. Then you tell them not to do that because they are too young. That's it. No shaming should be involved.

 

Though I know how you feel. I had this overreacting friend who thought every little thing that one of the kids did, er, excuse me, one of MY kids did, was the sign of a major character flaw and we should be banned for life. When her kid did something, it was no big deal.

 

My dd is horrified, ashamed, mortified and several other adverbs (adjectives?) that I can't think of right now. She never wants to see the other family because she is so embarrassed.

 

 

This is more destructive than any kissing on the hand. She just should NOT be made to feel this way. So she thinks a boy is cute? SO WHAT? Be glad she likes boys! Today, you just never know what could happen, with everything that goes on. Could have been much, much worse. Could have been oral sex or something (not saying your girl would do this! Just saying that it happens commonly and that if it did, the other Mom would be justified in flipping out!).

 

So what are your-alls thoughts? Should I get a chastity belt and send her to the nunnery? Should I get my dd on birth control then offer to rent them a room? (Neither is an option I'm gonna do - I'm just kinda making this over the top to get some laughs at a serious situation)

 

To keep the Moderators happy - this is homeschool related because all the kids involved are homeschooled.

 

 

Go give her a hug and tell her everything is FINE. That you know she will be attracted to boys but the other Mom and you think right now is a little early for the kissing. Then give her a brownie or something to go along with your fruity drink!

[TranquilMind]

:iagree: Absolutely. This was happening at 11 and 12 at least 40 years ago ;)

 

Absolutely! I got my first real kiss at 12 years old from a neighbor boy. It was not on the hand!

[TranquilMind]

Tibbie Dunbar: Agreeing with the others that these people are not a good influence for your dd, not because their son is a kisser but because they are wigging out in a way that contributes to unnecessary shame and guilt on her part.

 

 

This! I just posted the same thing before I went back to read the thread.

 

If they can't be matter-of-fact about these incidents, don't let them be the people you trust to supervise your daughter. Of course the children should be supervised. Of course there should be loving discussion. But if a 12yo girl is made to feel like a harlot or something over three such kisses, she will associate all intimacies with shame and drama. I mean, if the sky falls over a kiss on the hand, there aren't enough steps between that and how parents should react to them actually having s*x.

 

 

Absolutely! This is much more of a dangerous possibility than the "danger" presented by three kisses on the hand and head.

 

If young people can't tell their parents about small things in their relationships, or even that they feel they have relationships, they sure aren't going to tell about the big things. They won't ask their questions or give you clues; they'll sneak and feel rebellious in every interaction with the opposite sex, putting themselves in risky situations...

 

 

 

So true!

 

 

And that's how you end up with pregnant teens. Scared to talk to you, short on information, operating without proper perspective or reasonable supervision.

 

 

Scary!

[Elizabeth in MN]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

[kalanamak]

T

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

Tell her that some people are so obsessed with sex they give it so much power it is destructive in their lives.

And that you're sorry if she was distressed by all this.

And that she will be okay and live through this.

And that overreaction hurts people and to always weigh the consequences of your reactions against the weight of the event. "One's feelings" about something stop being all your own when you act on them.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[GWOB]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

Oh good gravy! Seriously? That's just.... I don't even know. Your dd can hang out with my dd any time. Well, except for the drive;). That other mom needs a drink and a huge chill pill. And maybe a HUGE slice of perspective pie.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

:( :grouphug: I'm sorry.

[dangermom]

:grouphug: Some people are jerks.

[kitten18]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

I'm so sorry that your dd will be hurt by this. I do think that in the Long run it will be for the best because honestly this woman is crazy and she could hurt your dd far worse in the future. :grouphug:

[SunieDawn]

I am so sorry to hear your neighbor has gone bonkers! It's hurtful when others reject us and our family, especially when we have done nothing wrong.

 

On the other hand, maybe this is an answer to pray. By your neighbor cutting ties now it might save you from future heartache. If she is this irate about a simple kiss, who knows what the future will hold as the children get older.

 

Hug your children tight, and make sure your DD knows this is NOT her fault. Some people just have ISSUES, and nothing we can do changes that!

[SunnyDays]

Elizabeth, I am so sorry. I'm just reading this, and... good grief. It's not like they were making out and groping each other. It was a couple innocent kisses, not even on the mouth. I'm sure I'll be more cautious than many parents in this area, but as Tibbie and others have said... this mother is setting up her children for a lot of shame over nothing.

 

I can't imagine what this mom would think of my son. My darling boy, when he was 6 or 7, confided to me that his best girlfriend, whom he still believes he may one day marry, allowed him to kiss her on the cheek. I told him that was very nice, and he went back to playing with his legos. Your friend would probably leave the country to get away from us.

 

Tell your daughter that she's a wonderful girl. I'm sorry for the loss of your friends.

[annandatje]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

I'm sorry, Elizabeth. This strikes a nerve with me because I recall how hurt two of my kids were when they were uninvited to a party. The uninvite and subsequent shunning ocurred when the mother invited us a second time to her church. I honestly responded that we did not attend church. Apparently that is enough to warrant shielding her children from us as well as informing other families at the co-op, some of whom also shunned us.

 

The positive spin on this is that this incident revealed the kind of person she truly is, and you and your daughter will not be expending any more time or emotional energy in such a potentially unhealthy dynamic.

[Kathryn]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry she's such a douchebag.

[Lara in Colo]

:grouphug: I'm sorry she's such a douchebag.

 

:iagree: (although I cannot say I have actually used that word before, it does seem correct)

[Ipsey]

The follow up to this all happened today. My advice, always take the advice of The Hive.

 

The other mother has cut all contact with us. We have been officially uninvited to a house warming party. She has said that her children are not allowed to play with my dd. I'm not even sure how to tell my dd because these were her best friends and she saw them weekly.

 

I am honestly sitting here with an open mouth. That's one of the most over-the-top things I've ever heard. I didn't even kiss until I was 18, but hearing of a 12-year-old pecking an 11-year-old on the hand, cheek, forehead is about the most innocent thing I can imagine.

 

I know it's hard and sad for your kiddos, but it'll probably just be for the better in the long-run. You've probably ducked more painful and horrifying things in the future from this woman.

[Incognito]

Wow - I'm sorry too. That is an intense overreaction. Is it possible she was looking for a way to end the friendship and is using this as her excuse? Either way, bad form.