Are nasty patdowns still happening in airports?

[Guest Xapis10]

Wondering if this is mostly a thing of the past??

[KatieJ]

I had my first patdown 2 weeks ago when we flew to Houston.

Wasn't nasty, but I wouldn't sign up for it deliberately!

[Guest Xapis10]

Sorry to hear that

[BlueTaelon]

A few people just strip naked and walk through to avoid the pat downs, yes seriously:lol:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/john-brennan-man-who-stri_n_1684381.html

 

oh yes! They can see you naked as you walk through the scanners now too:glare:

[Starr]

We went cross country and had to go in the machine and one time dh was patted down. He was not happy. It was less intrusive and quicker in Northern Ireland some years ago.

[plansrme]

Wear snug clothes and flat hair.

 

If there is any kind of poof in your clothes--an empire waist on a top, shorts a little baggy, hair fluffy--it will get patted. Seriously, this is the time to break out the Spandex.

 

Terri

[AlmiraGulch]

I can't say for sure whether they are or are not happening. I can say that I am a frequent traveler (minimum of 2 round trip flights per month, but usually more) and have only been patted down once. The experience wasn't my favorite thing, but it really wasn't invasive. I was not groped.

 

I can also say I've never witnessed an invasive type of pat down.

 

I had dinner tonight with a friend who is in national law enforcement who regularly travels with a weapon or weapons (fully documented, of course) as part of her job. She also happens to be a firearms instructor for the federal organization for which she works, and sometimes when she leaves the range extra rounds get tossed into her bag. A few weeks ago she was leaving the airport on personal travel (no weapons) and set off the x-ray. Apparently there was a bullet at the bottom of her backpack! She was patted down, for obvious reasons, but even she said there was no groping....just open hands and nothing intrusive.

 

The did keep her bullet, in case you were wondering. :-)

[zimom]

.....

[LibraryLover]

I am not an apologist for it, but I have been patted down by female TSA about 6 times in the last year. I have light hair and green eyes, but they never seem to let me through.

 

It's fast, and not a big deal...to me.

 

Is it effective? Dunno. But for me, it's so quick, it's simply not a big deal.

 

I wear simple clothing (usually a sun dress --I put my wrap in the bin), no bra, no tights, and simple heeled sandals that are easy on, easy off.

 

I take any hair clips or barrettes off, and pitch them in the bins with my stuff.

 

It has never taken more than a few seconds.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Yes. My 15 yo dd just flew on Monday. I went with her through the line with a parent's pass. They wanted to "max out the machine" so they funneled everyone through the scanner. She had two hair ties in her pocket so they patted her down then did a chemical test on her hands because she pulled them out of her pockets after they asked her to. It. was. ridiculous.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Agree w/flat hair.

 

I had a TSA agent go through my ponytail with her hands..when she said "anything in your hair?" I was like :001_huh:

 

Went to reach up to take it down and she said, "NO! Don't touch it!"

 

Okay lady...it's all yours..lol

 

Two second deal, but it really surprised me. I've seen some major freak outs in planes/TSA - if something happens, just go w/the flow, it's not worth missing a flight over.

[Rivka]

I have an artificial hip, so I set off metal detectors. I am probably the only person in the airport who is hoping that there will be a backscatter machine to go through, because if there isn't, I get the patdown. Every. Time. It is definitely worse than it used to be.

 

I was patted down a lot under the old system - every time I flew since September 11th. I always felt that the TSA workers were very professional about it and tried to make it as comfortable as possible. But when they introduced the "enhanced patdown" I found it very hard to cope with. The TSAs are still just as professional and kind, but the required procedures feel so much more invasive to me.

 

The last few times I have cried. It really alarms them - they get very upset too.

[oldskool]

We flew quite a bit this summer and none of us got the pat down. Actually none of our family members have ever got one.

[stripe]

The last few times I have cried. It really alarms them - they get very upset too.

It's amazing, isn't it, the level of separation we are supposed to have, and the lack of emotion. :grouphug:

[KatieJ]

When I was patted down this last flight, I had just gone thru the big scanner thing. On the screen just outside it, there were circles under the arms of the body image there. That is the only place they patted me down.

What did they see on the scanner that would require my armpits to be screened??

I thought it odd. But it was over in a second.

[Farrar]

It's amazing, isn't it, the level of separation we are supposed to have, and the lack of emotion. :grouphug:

 

Dh yelled at them when they insisted on patting our 7 yos down. And everyone acted like he was nuts. Also, they had a weird thing where they wouldn't just come right out and say we HAD to submit the kids to it. Instead, they kept asking over and over and over. He made them admit that we had to do it, it was not really a "request." But really, who's nuts - the man saying don't fondle my kid's genitals no matter how "professional" you are about it or the people doing the pat downs? Sigh. It was endured. They were, indeed, calm and professional.

 

Rivka, I hear you.:grouphug:

[Caraway]

The friend of a friend just had an awful experience. She was carrying rolls of film which needed to be hand checked. Two rolls (new and sealed) tested positive for potential explosives. Her "patdown" involved the TSA agent reaching into her pants, and under her shirt.

 

Apparently glycerin (like they put in hand lotion) can test positive for explosive substances. :glare:

[Ali in OR]

We've had only positive experiences, and we are not exactly easy! My disabled dd and her wheelchair have to be checked out by hand. They always get a female. They always explain to me what they are doing. There is no fondling--just a simple patting. My dd was very fussy after a long day in the car when we hit the Las Vegas airport for our flight home. She was growling and rocking in her chair. The attendant starting patting her and she calmed right down and actually started humming! But then she's a touchy-feely kind of person (visually-impaired). Anyway, no complaints here.

[zimom]

......

[JoLuRu]

So in short, a pat down is possible, but not common. Go to the TSA site and read your rights so you will feel empowered. .

 

Even knowing the rules doesn't guarantee a reasonable TSA agent conforming to those rules.

 

DS wore a medical device which the TSA website said would not need to be removed. I printed it out and brought it to the airport with us, along with a letter from DS's doctor and information about the device. It was completely ignored by the TSA agent. I was polite but firm that I would not remove the device, but the agent was insistent and rather abrasive, making DS cry. When I refused, he told us to sit and wait for a supervisor.

 

The agent had us wait apart from our belongings for more than 20 minutes, and DH took our things and DD away from the area, a plan we'd come up with in advance. The TSA didn't know that it was my husband removing my luggage, though, and even though there was nothing suspicious in my belongings I wasn't allowed to go get them. It could have been a stranger stealing our things!

 

When the supervisor came out, I showed him the TSA rules, my son's device and doctor's letter, and he did a patdown and let us through. There was no apology for the agent who made us wait, away from our belongings, unnecessarily and against their own policy.

 

I knew my rights but that certainly didn't empower me.

 

:mad::mad::mad:

[TranquilMind]

I have an artificial hip, so I set off metal detectors. I am probably the only person in the airport who is hoping that there will be a backscatter machine to go through, because if there isn't, I get the patdown. Every. Time. It is definitely worse than it used to be.

 

I was patted down a lot under the old system - every time I flew since September 11th. I always felt that the TSA workers were very professional about it and tried to make it as comfortable as possible. But when they introduced the "enhanced patdown" I found it very hard to cope with. The TSAs are still just as professional and kind, but the required procedures feel so much more invasive to me.

 

The last few times I have cried. It really alarms them - they get very upset too.

 

This is appalling that you have to go through this. Our tax dollars at work. I can just imagine the founding fathers being told they were going to have an enhanced patdown to go from one state to another. When is enough going to be enough.

 

Look what happened to this poor 61 year old guy with a urostomy bag.

The TSA rules say that a passenger will NOT be required to expose one of these devices for inspection.

 

Check this one out. Rape victim who ended up in the ER.

 

Traveling out of Florida due to a death in the family, Dunn’s wife was asked to go through a backscatter x-ray device. When she said she would like to opt out, the TSA agent graphically described to her how “they will need to touch your privates,” a threat routinely used by TSA screeners to intimidate people into going through the body scanner.

“That just about did it for my wife, and she started shaking, sweating, and ended up going through the backscatter,” writes Dunn.

However, despite passing through the x-ray device, TSA agents claimed an “anomaly” in the woman’s bra mandated she be patted down on her breasts.

When the woman asked for the pat down to take place in a private room with her husband present, the TSA agent became visibly annoyed and aggressive.

“As she started shaking and sobbing in the room as the TSO began to touch her breasts, I gently touched her arm. Big mistake – the TSO yelled that I couldn’t touch her and that I’d need to go through screening again,” writes Dunn.

 

 

There are reports of TSA agents plunging their hands down the pants of victims - yes, victims- and touching private parts quite invasively. Some reports have indicated that they don't even change GLOVES before handling the next person.

 

TSA should be shut down.

Edited August 16, 2012 by TranquilMind

[zimom]

Sorry you went through that JoLuRu. Unfortunately there are idiots everywhere and we are all susceptible to a bad encounter, but we want to minimize our chances. Sounds like something that could potentially happen with us too, and yes, with a child that will set off the alarm, has a medical device, and on and on, our chances are higher, but we just have to educate ourselves, speak up to do the best we can, and hope for the best.

 

I spoke calmly but firmly when they started leading my daughter away (nope, you wait until Mom is there with her), same thing regarding our belongings (they would not allow me to touch them but they collected them and brought them along), etc.

[TranquilMind]

When the supervisor came out, I showed him the TSA rules, my son's device and doctor's letter, and he did a patdown and let us through. There was no apology for the agent who made us wait, away from our belongings, unnecessarily and against their own policy.

 

I knew my rights but that certainly didn't empower me.

 

:mad::mad::mad:

 

Right. Empowered. There is no "empowerment" when government agents get on a power trip.

[Kate in Arabia]

I'm always searched, every time I fly.

[tntgoodwin]

We flew in October and the Theater Security Administration patted me down. It was uncomfortable but I wouldn't say traumatizing.

[mumto2]

I know that I am slightly off topic but ds kept setting machines off about 5 years ago on a vacation both in Europe and US. We finally figured out his problem was a store security tag inside his trousers. I had not removed it -- just a cloth tag that apparently had something in it for theft. They had been washed at least a dozen times.

 

Maybe this will help someone. It did say to remove it but I never look inside clothing. :glare: I just remove price tags and wash new things.

[lynn]

My fil had his cane taken away. Idiot TSa agent offered 2 fingers for balance. then his pants almost dropped because he had to remove his belt. I understand that they are changing rules more with the elderly. It's about time.

 

I used to be pulled aside all the time so the TSA could check off 30 something mom flying alone with kids. That was before the touching started. It never happened when we would fly all together.

Edited August 16, 2012 by lynn

[Heather in Neverland]

We just flew here from the U.S. and it was easy-peasy. It was way less invasive than the Singapore airport! They REALLY pat you down!

[Joules]

Wear snug clothes and flat hair.

 

If there is any kind of poof in your clothes--an empire waist on a top, shorts a little baggy, hair fluffy--it will get patted. Seriously, this is the time to break out the Spandex.

 

Terri

 

That's what I do, stretch pants and a tank top. I usually have a long overshirt, but I throw that in with my carry-on.

[ErinE]

I fly often and though I'm still really unhappy with the security theater, I have seen gradual improvement. The gate agents were asking more questions and engaging people in conversation. My children were expected to state their names and talk briefly with the ticket reviewer. However, they didn't have to take off their shoes which made things easier for me.

 

I highly recommend arriving 2-hours before your flight. The time to go through security can vary wildly, for no reason I can see. I just went through Charlotte-Douglas, which has really ramped up security for the Democratic National Convention. I refused the backscatter machine and the agent was very polite, but thorough in her pat down. She explained everything before she did it and repeated her instructions as she moved from front to back.

 

I have found that when I travel alone with my children the agents automatically allow me to skip the backscatter. My son was briefly subjected to a pat down a few months ago, but the agent worked quickly. His pat down was not as thorough as the one I went through.

[stripe]

I fly often and though I'm still really unhappy with the security theater, I have seen gradual improvement. The gate agents were asking more questions and engaging people in conversation. My children were expected to state their names and talk briefly with the ticket reviewer. However, they didn't have to take off their shoes which made things easier for me.

What happens when you have a child who is shy, autistic, deaf, doesn't speak English, or otherwise won't do that? Then you look suspicious?! Great. I have a kid who is a major wildcard in that regard.

 

I'm always searched, every time I fly.

:grouphug: Ah, but it's all random, right, Kate? :glare:

 

Right. Empowered. There is no "empowerment" when government agents get on a power trip.

And even less so when it's a private agency that pays people very low wages and doesn't educate them correctly, and the whole thing is based more on what looks like impressive security than what actually would work.

Edited August 16, 2012 by stripe

[Heather in Neverland]

I have yet to be pat down. DH was pat down last time we went. He beeped going through so they sent him through again trying to figure out why he beeped. He took off his belt. He still beeped. So they gave him a quick pat down. It really wasn't a big deal. I didn't beep. They didn't give me a second glance.

 

FWIW there was a group of Muslim women ahead of me and they kept beeping. They kept letting them take stuff off from underneath and walk through again and again until they figured out what was setting off the detector. They didn't pat them down.

 

All these horror stories I've heard I just haven't seen.

 

Me either. My step-father is a TSA supervisor at Detroit Metro and says none of these horror stories happen where he is at. The entire area is on camera and the TSA workers are being videotaped and watched. The slightest inkling that they are doing something wrong and they are fired.

 

He said the TSA agents there are terrified of losing their jobs and are hesitant to pat anyone down at all. And he hates when people talk about TSA agents "getting off" on people going through the scanner. Basically, he says people are overreacting to a few isolated cases compared to the millions that fly all the time. He also had a few choice words for people who use these sweeping generalizations for TSA agents but I won't repeat them.

 

I have been patted down... Ummm... "vigorously" .... in other countries but it doesn't bother me. If you have a history that includes sexual abuse I guess I understand it but other than I just don't understand the hysteria. YMMV.

 

 

.

[Abigail4476]

Yes. One of my best friends FLIPPED OUT when she was searched *because* she was wearing a skirt. Unfortunately, part of her flip out was because she thought the TSA agent was going to pat up her legs UNDER her skirt, when in fact the TSA agent meant that she was going to pat up her legs on the outside of the skirt. The TSA agent said, "I'm going to have to pat up your skirt" and my friend took that to mean "upskirt." Apparently there was some discussion of taking it to a private room after my friend flipped her skirt up in front of everyone and said (yelled), "Is that better?" :lol:

 

My husband travels and he doesn't mind. He said it makes him feel safer. I haven't had to go through it yet, so I'll have to withhold judgment.

[MamaT]

My 15yo recently flew out of the country. She was patted down and searched in all three airports she went through. She is bi-racial and very exotic-looking. It is impossible to tell her ethnicity by just looking at her. She was separated from her group and taken into a questioning room in the last airport, where they held her 20 minutes questioning her in a language she did not understand. She had been traveling 20 hours at that point. They finally brought an interpreter in, and then let her go. I'm afraid with her looks, she is going to get searched every time. Random, humph.

[stripe]

My 15yo recently flew out of the country. She was patted down and searched in all three airports she went through. She is bi-racial and very exotic-looking. It is impossible to tell her ethnicity by just looking at her. She was separated from her group and taken into a questioning room in the last airport, where they held her 20 minutes questioning her in a language she did not understand. She had been traveling 20 hours at that point. They finally brought an interpreter in, and then let her go. I'm afraid with her looks, she is going to get searched every time. Random, humph.

Yes, most "ethnic" looking people are given special attention, as I think several WTM members have already confirmed. However, those who don't fit that profile, don't experience it.

 

My husband travels and he doesn't mind. He said it makes him feel safer. I haven't had to go through it yet, so I'll have to withhold judgment.

Right. It makes him feel safer. However anyone with evil intentions knows the limits of the machines. Heck -- everyone knows they can't detect stuff in body cavities. That's very public knowledge. So.... yeah. Very safe. Not sure how someone with a big flannel mamacloth or wearing a big soggy depends adult diaper feels about having her groin confused with people who put explosives down their undies, either.

[Scuff]

Do they reallygo in pants and touch genitals? Why would they possibly need to do that?! I was always one to think people were probably too touchy about this. (I was patted down pre-9/11) but that's much more invasive than someone touchig clothing.

[QueenCat]

When I was patted down this last flight, I had just gone thru the big scanner thing. On the screen just outside it, there were circles under the arms of the body image there. That is the only place they patted me down.

What did they see on the scanner that would require my armpits to be screened??

I thought it odd. But it was over in a second.

 

When ds was patted down last month, they only patted the area of concern that they had seen on the scanner. Not a full scan. Same child has mild autism. I told the agent to be specific in telling him what they were going to do before they did. Agent was great, took about 20 seconds.

Edited August 16, 2012 by CathieC

[flyingiguana]

Wear clothes with minimal amounts of metal and don't forget to take the Kleenexes out of your pockets.

 

If I'd remembered these tips, I would not have gotten patted down. Neither would the woman behind me who didn't remove her chainlink belt.

 

The pat down I had a number of years ago (pre-scanners) was a lot more intrusive then the one I had this summer because I didn't take a Kleenex out of my pocket. They just targeted the Kleenex area.

 

Wear as little as you feel comfortable with and you'll probably just sail through with no pat down.

 

That said, though, I think a lot of it depends on the city you're flying out of and what scolding the TSA agents most recently had. So it's a bit random. In recent years, I've flown with no scan and no pat down, but then had both on the way back.

 

But whatever you do, don't make any jokes when you fly out of LAX.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Do they reallygo in pants and touch genitals? Why would they possibly need to do that?! I was always one to think people were probably too touchy about this. (I was patted down pre-9/11) but that's much more invasive than someone touchig clothing.

 

I don't know. I haven't seen anything like that. With dd the worker just took the back of her hand and rubbed dd's pocket where her hair ties were. The woman explained what and how and was very professional about it. If the tsa agent had gone down her pants and touched genitals I would have flipped!

[Dobela]

Search your luggage before ever leaving home. Just a couple of weeks ago a friend's sister flew across country for a funeral. She grabbed a bag that her dh had not used since college. He had left in it some small objects that could have been perceived as a weapon. She made it to her destination ok, but on the way home was stopped because of what was in the bag (in an interior pocket she had never opened). Not only was she patted down, she was stripped searched. Aggressively. More than once. Because TSA was involved, she was not given the opportunity to call family for HOURS because apparently they aren't law enforcement and aren't required to give you that call. Finally a local law enforcement person felt sorry for her and gave her the opportunity to call family.

[Guest Xapis10]

I guess I haven't been around any news in this area since those body scanners were just a possibility that hadn't happened yet.

So, if you're checked, you might get a choice between the scanner or a patdown?

[Annie Anne]

.. Go to the TSA site and read your rights so you will feel empowered. With my daughter's specific needs it has made a huge difference in taking a lot of worry away. A family member that has a history of s@xual abuse / PTSD also knows what to do if she flies to keep herself safe emotionally.

 

Sorry this happens to your daughter and your family.

We are flying for the first time since the enhanced pat downs.

Knowing my rights will help me know what I have to put up with, but I cannot find the list on the TSA sight.

I hope I am missing it, and they did not take it down. When did you access it?

Anne

[Guest Xapis10]

and the whole thing is based more on what looks like impressive security than what actually would work.

I agree.

people who use these sweeping generalizations for TSA agents

 

.

For the comments here, I'm getting the feeling of frustration not with every single TSA worker, but with the excessive "power" they are given.

 

That said, though, I think a lot of it depends on the city you're flying out of and what scolding the TSA agents most recently had. So it's a bit random. In recent years, I've flown with no scan and no pat down, but then had both on the way back.

 

But whatever you do, don't make any jokes when you fly out of LAX.

 

I wish there were a way of knowing the history of each airport!

On the TSA website, they're saying that some of the backscatter units have been replaced with the millimeter wave unit which has a generic image. Is there a way to know which airports have which kind of scanner?

[celticmom]

This is appalling that you have to go through this. Our tax dollars at work. I can just imagine the founding fathers being told they were going to have an enhanced patdown to go from one state to another. When is enough going to be enough.

 

Look what happened to this poor 61 year old guy with a urostomy bag.

The TSA rules say that a passenger will NOT be required to expose one of these devices for inspection.

 

Check this one out. Rape victim who ended up in the ER.

 

 

 

There are reports of TSA agents plunging their hands down the pants of victims - yes, victims- and touching private parts quite invasively. Some reports have indicated that they don't even change GLOVES before handling the next person.

 

TSA should be shut down.

 

:iagree:Especially with the bolded.

[celticmom]

It doesn't make me feel safer. It mostly hurts those who wouldn't harm anyone anyways. If someone is that hell bent on hurting people he/she will figure it out.

 

:iagree:

[justLisa]

This is the sort of reason I won't fly with the kids. I would literally have a full blown panic attack, I don't even doubt it one bit. I am not one to cause a scene or say much, I would just probably fall over and die right there.

[Dinsfamily]

I had a pat down in July and it wasn't a big deal at all. The lady was very respectful and made sure I knew exactly what she was going to do. It wasn't invasive.

[LibraryLover]

I have very light hair, almost blond, and green eyes. I don't look exotic at all. I look like the suburban white mom that I am. I have been patted down 6 times this year, and last year I had pat downs, *and* had to go through two scanners in two different airports.

 

My dh, who flies at least once a month, and does look 'ethnic', used to get the pat down as well, but hardly ever anymore. He's getting gray, and I think he's seen as out of the age range of the 'terrorist' profile. He usually has to wait for me. He's got his shoes back on, and there I am...maybe looking like the middle-aged wife of a terrorist? Last year, I was able to fly from LA to Vegas without a pat down. Not sure why. :tongue_smilie:

 

It doesn't traumatize me, and it doesn't take more than a few seconds. I've never been taken aside and asked questions. That would be frightening.

Edited August 18, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Guest Xapis10]

For the trip we're planning, we will be able to drive this time.