help me think through moms night out/guys night, versus couple time, versus?

[ktgrok]

My husband just got a new job, that actually gets him home around 6pm instead of him working until 9pm or later. He also now has weekends off. He's very excited, as am I. He has said he thinks it would be a great idea for him to hang out with his friends one evenign a week, and I should do the same. This makes me nervous for a few reasons, and I need to talk through this and get some sanity about it. And to be VERY clear, this is NOT husband bashing. He is an AMAZING husband, and has done nothing wrong. I'm just reacting oddly, and need to figure my thoughts out, and figure out how to communicate my desires to him.

 

1. When he has seen his friends in the past it turns into a long/late thing. For instance, he had a friend in town Sat. So he met that friend and some other friends for dinner. Cool. But that isn't enough. They then go back to the other friend's house 35 minutes away, play board games and have some scotch. He said he would be home about midnight, but didn't leave there until 12:30, so was home about 1am. Other times he has seen his friends he leaves the house at 4pm and is back around 1am or later. Now, to be fair, he hardly ever gets to do this, maybe a few times a year, but still. When I see my friends it is once a month at an ICAN meeting, which is very emotional, where I offer support to moms healing from c-sections or looking for VBACs, and I'm gone from 7pm to 10pm, at the latest. It just doesn't seem the same, and I don't know how to explain that.

 

2. My friend are moms, they are not available that often! I suppose I could make some more friends or something. But when I mentioned this he said "well, you could go to the library or get coffee or whatever." Um..yes, in his defense i've mentioned in the past I'd like to be able to go to the library without the kids, so I can pick out books without struggling with them. But I don't think a 30 minute outing to the library to return books and pick more out is the same as what he is planning, and shouldn't be thought of that way. I explained that me going to the library without the kids is more equivalent to him going to the hardware store without the kids. He wouldn't ever think i was doing him a favor by keeping the kids so he could have a relaxing time at the hardware store, it would just be assumed that if i was available I'd keep them. I'd like the same courtesy, but that isn't a girls evening out by any means.

 

3. I don't think we need time with other people that much, when we don't get fun times out with each other. We don't have family near by, so we don't have anyone to watch the kids when we go out. We had a babysitter once, in the past 2 years, and I would have her back but our house is being remodeled and is totally torn apart, so I don't know that I want someone else in here.

 

Basically, it makes me VERY nervous for us to have most of our "fun" times apart from each other. Does that make sense? I think we will star to associate fun and freedom with other people, rather than our spouses, and that seems dangerous.

 

Plus, in a selfish truth, I'm due with a baby soon, I don't plan to introduce bottles any time early on, so I'm not going to be going out without a kid anytime in those months anyway.

 

Finally, right before my first marriage totally fell apart my ex started having "guys' nights' with his friends. they got more and more common and later and later, so I'm sure that is part of my paranoia.

 

Oh, and there is also a bit of pity for myself because yes, he misses his friends, but I moved halfway across the state away from all my friends when I married him. I miss my best friend HORRIBLY, and see her maybe 3 times a year, and even then it is usually a holiday or party where her time is spent divided amongst me and a million other people. (for instance, we had an hour together alone in the past year).

 

Ok, so....pity party aside, please help me figure out my thinking, what I want, what is healthy, what is a good idea, and how to communicate my thoughts to my husband?

[Ellie]

:grouphug:

 

I think you could say just what you said here.

 

I'm trying to imagine either my dh or me going out for social time with friends every single week :001_huh: although I guess that isn't any different from my taking a weekly dance class (other than the fact that it's a one-hour dance class and there's no partying involved...).

[KungFuPanda]

It will never be 'fair.' I can't imagine any couple logging hours or keeping score and have that work. The best you can do is meet the needs of the two people in the marriage. He's enjoying some time out. Let go of the clock-watching. Do you really want him to get up at 10 p.m. and say he has to leave or his wife will freak out? Just go to sleep. THIS is not the REASON your last marriage didn't work.

 

Take advantage of the weekends off. Can't that best friend get away for a girls' weekend? Can you meet your social needs with some time away from the kids? (Don't worry about how much time you get compared to DH, just, are your needs met?) Can you use that time to cultivate friendships so you WILL have friends available to watch your kiddos on date-night? Can you invite HIS friends to a BBQ and meet their significant others? Do you have any interests outside your particular life-phase that you can pursue?

 

You need to stop looking for reasons NOT to enjoy this. Renovations are no reason not to call a sitter. If it's safe for your family to live among the construction debris you can get over yourself and have a night out with your husband. If you want to spend your time off at home, get your DH to take the kids out somewhere. Make this work for you too. Friendships are healthy. Don't be afraid to embrace them.

[Chris in VA]

Just random comments to get the ball rolling...

 

You are right, your time at ICAN is not "fun" time. It's not comparable to his guy time. It may feed you, but not in the same way. You need fun time, too.

 

I think his library/coffee comment was less about comparing and more about him brainstorming some ways for you to get around the "moms are too busy to go out at night" thing you mentioned.

 

I agree with the idea that you need to have fun together. We struggle with this, too. Dd (the only child home now) was at a retreat this weekend. I expected to have fun with dh and we did! Two movies, one at home and one at the theater; two special meals; and some time to relax. It was really nice, but honestly, we were both exhausted from the basic living stuff, so it wasn't as good as it could've been, but hey, I'll take it.

 

I think you named the root of your fear and discomfort when you mentioned your ex. Having a fun, playful time together and keeping the marriage relationship the central one in your household is kinda difficult, but really important. You can't expect each other to meet every need for each other, but yes, you should be having some joyful times together and not just sluff that off to friends!

 

Oh, and you can go out when you have a newborn. It's just the 30 minutes or an hour here and there--and those times can be wonderful because they are so rare! lol I'd say (more gently than it sounds) get over not wanting a babysitter and just start building a relationship with one you can learn to trust, so that you and hubby can have regular times out, even if they are short, even if they aren't the 5 hour dates we might be used to. We don't have any family here either, and we didn't when the boys were little, but we made sure we had someone to let us go play for a while.

And pretty soon you'll be able to trust your son to care for your dd. In a couple of years, he can watch the littlest, too! (Right? Or maybe not-ymmv)

 

Find what feeds your sense of enjoyment and fun and play, and try to do some with your hubby and some with friends. Honestly, if you model taking care of yourself to the other moms, maybe they will be able to go out for short periods, too. I have a dear couple of women who can meet with me from time to time--we talk about spiritual things and everything else, too, and it's so much fun. But I make sure dh and I can do some of that, too.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Hmmm ... interesting topic. Here are my thoughts based my marriage, its strengths and weaknesses ...

 

Parents with young children need to focus on each other and that relationship. It is so easy to get caught up into being parents and forgetting to be friends/lovers. Doing something fun with just each other (or with the nursing baby) should be much higher priority than individual friendships outside of that relationship. I know that dh and I struggle with that. It has come to light more so now that we will have one leaving the next next fall.

 

I believe it is important for married couples to have friends in common - other married couples - other families. Dh and I used to have this and it was very healthy for our relationship. He had guys to talk to, I had women to talk to, but we were together. We lost most of those friendships after we all started having children and having very different ideas about parenting and lifestyles. When we started meeting families after we had children, we would get to know them and they would move away or a few of them divorced.

 

While I do believe having one's own friendships is important, the question is "are these friendships enhancing my life?" "Am I a person my spouse would like when I am with these people?" What your dh is proposing does seem very unfair. He sounds like he wants to act like a "single person" with these people. He sounds like he becomes thoughtless and irresponsible around them. The other thing is frequency. If the frequency of "guy's nights" is more than that of "our nights - where the focus is not on being parents", then there is a serious imbalance in the relationship. I personally would feel threatened by it and I don't have your history.

 

If I were in this situation, I would lay it on the line and tell him that what he is proposing is not good for your relationship and is not fair to you. No one is saying he can't see his friends, but once a week is unreasonable, especially with young children. Once a month? Maybe, but only if he could come to a point where he can be more responsible.

[sassenach]

Have you said everything you wrote here to him? If not, you should. I think you have some valid points. But I can also see from his perspective, if he has been working such terrible hours, why he would suggest this. I bet there's a compromise somewhere in there.

 

My dh is out several nights a week, but not for fun. A certain amount of ministry needs (he's a pastor) happen on weeknights, because that's when people are available. Once every couple of months he meets a really close pastor friend in the city and they stay the night. Those mini retreats are REALLY good for him. I try to get to the once a month moms nights, but don't often make it. It's always been harder for me to get out than dh. I guess that's the nature of motherhood. On the other hand, I will be going to the homeschool conference for 2 nights solo, and I made a trip to visit friends last year for 3 nights. So it happens, just not consistently.

[QueenCat]

Everyone is different, having different needs. I need both time with my friends and time with dh. I get together with one group of friends almost every Sunday evening for dinner & fellowship. At least one other time during the week, most weeks, I'll have breakfast/lunch or coffee, sit on the porch with a glass of wine with a neighbor or something with a friend. I work out with a friend three times a week. I have a high need for socializing and being with friends. Dh and I do spend plenty of time together though, on the couch at night, dinner out once a week, most weeks. Dh doesn't have as high of a need for socializing, and goes out about once a month, right after work with a couple of guys from work. As a couple, we get together with other couples/families once or twice a month.

 

But we did not do most of the above when we had young kids. Ours are much older than yours. When they were younger, we couldn't afford to go out as much, plus we had to consider a sitter. I did get to see friends through playgroups and such, and school activities (pre-homeschooling), and work, so I did get my need to socialize in there, just in a different way.

Edited April 24, 2012 by CathieC

[ma23peas]

I would feel the same as you, and if you're pregnant hormones work, too...

 

But, honestly, we have been married 20 years...before children, he would go play card games with his buddies maybe 2x a month, but literally once one of the men had children..that stopped...focus I guess was on family. My own father has NEVER had a 'guys' night out, they've been married 50 years this December...now when I was young, he would go out himself to fly his airplane..his own hobby, no buddies..I can not recall either of my grandfathers going out ever...I do not even remember them going out to a restaurant...always in the garden or they may have neighbors over for pie or something...both were married over 50 years.

 

So, for me, it's just not customary to do such things..my husband and I budget tightly as well so we'd rather save the dough and go on a big vacation as we afford it...and if we ever had any kind of night, it was having friends over WITH their families to play a game or hang out..usually with church friends or neighbors/family.

 

Just sharing our experiences, neither right nor wrong, just what our outlook on it is.

[Cera]

I think it's healthy to have time alone with friends.

 

If you are worried about once a week being too often maybe you could do every other week.

 

If it's a jealousy issue (he has friends and things to do but you don't) then it might be time to start looking for what it is that you would enjoy. Search for a group on meetup or a similar site, sign up for a class, etc so that you have something to do on your evenings out.

 

Are you able to find a sitter so that you can go out as a couple occasionally? (Maybe even once a month alone with friends for each of you and twice a month as a couple would work for starters).

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I'm on a roll this morning :D, so bear with me. It seems like there are several separate issues, there.

 

1. You're afraid that dh will get carried away, pulled away or otherwise taken away from you if he spends more time with his friends.

 

2. You're anticipating the lifestyle of the mother of a breastfeeding newborn, which basically means you will not have your own life for quite a while :tongue_smilie:, and will therefore be a little jealous and resentful of your dh's freedom (at least, that was my experience.)

 

3. You don't feel like your time away is the same as dh's time away, and not as fulfilling for you, nor as "detrimental" to your family time.

 

 

My opinions:

 

1. I think your fears are a little justified considering your past experience. However, your dh is not your ex, and you can't compare the two.

 

2. Having little children, especially nursing babies, is exhausting and draining in a way that most husbands I know can't fully understand. So, for them to suggest that you go out for coffee once a week is annoying and clueless. They're just trying to help, but don't really get it.

 

3. My dh plays poker with his buddies once a week. They play at our house, down the basement, so at least I know where he is. They play from 6:00 PM until 12:00 or 1:00 every time. He also usually goes to Vegas once a year with his cousin and some other friends, as well as a fishing trip to Canada every summer with his cousins and friends. He is actually coming home today from 5 days in Vegas. Do I know what he's been doing all this time? No. Sure, he calls every day and tells me what he did, but do I really know everything? There's no way for me to know. All I can do is trust that I know my husband well enough to know that he would not do anything stupid in Vegas. And I do.

 

When my kids got older, I started going on scrapbooking weekends. I'm going in two weeks on another one. I'm gone for 48 hours, 2-3 times per year. Plus I take an hour long dance class once a week. It's no where near as much "me time" as dh takes. Sometimes I am a little resentful of that, but then I re-evaluate my priorities and realize that I personally don't want to be away from my kids for more time than that. For me, it's about finding a balance that works for everyone. If you're not comfortable with your dh being gone so long, tell him and make compromises.

[tristangrace]

Do you have the sort of relationship where you could just say all these exact same things to your husband? (I do, but I know some don't.) If you can, I would recommend doing so.

 

I, personally, don't think the fact that you don't have the same ability to get equal time with your girlfriends is a reason that he should refrain from going out with his guys friends. Sounds like he is totally willing to step up to give you whatever time you want/need to get away from the house yourself--the rest is up to you.

 

If late nights bug you for reasons other than the fact that you don't stay out late yourself, talk about it. Maybe he could come home earlier, or, if staying out late is a big part of the fun for him, maybe plan a late night out with the boys once a month or four times a year would be fine.

 

I can sympathize with feeling conflicted about having your sitter in your house during remodeling, but your choices are limited. Do you care more about what the babysitter thinks of your house, or do you care more about getting some recreational time out with your husband? If date nights are important to you, you've gotta make them happen--don't make the condition of the house an obstacle, because it isn't, except in your mind.

 

Not knowing you at all, I would still guess that most of your feeling stem from the ghosts of the past--at least, that would MORE than account for uneasiness if it were me!!! That's why talking about your feelings with your husband would be good. It's OK to feel insecure. It's even OK to ask him to modify his desire for nights out with the guys based on nothing more than your insecurities. But I bet you can work your way through this together.

[fairfarmhand]

I would have the exact same issues.

 

If this is really important to him, I would be completely frank about my concerns. Perhaps if he has regular guy time it wouldn't turn into a long, late night every time. But I would have regular parameters about how late these evenings would be.

 

If you are not too interested in going out every evening, would he be up to taking your kids out for an evening/afternoon to give you alone time to relax?

 

Also, I completely understand your worries about having fun times apart from one another. I'd have the same concerns. I would also want this to happen more like once a month, personally, rather than weekly. And if he gets guy nights, I'd expect some dating time for just the two of us as well.

 

And with the new baby coming, how flexible will this be? If you are swamped at home, you will really resent his going out for fun.

 

Those would be my initial thoughts on it. For what it is worth.

[Parrothead]

1. Two different types of outings. Your outing would equate his going to work or him going to a men's meeting at church.

 

There is nothing wrong with him hanging with friends. There is nothing wrong with you going out (or having friends in when he goes out) if you had someone you'd like to see.

 

2. Again apples and oranges. Your friends are moms. You'd like to go to the library (or the market) without the kids. Should we take it that your dh's friends are single?

 

How about getting together with your friends while your dh is at work.

 

Maybe you should organize a girl's night out. No, you wouldn't want to do the same things your dh and his buddies are doing but a nice dinner out with girlfriends is doable.

 

Just because he spends evenings away doesn't mean you have to.

 

Or it might be a case of waiting until this season of your life is over.

 

3. Sounds like it is time to make date night or date day a priority. How about hiring a teen on Saturday to keep the kids outside and entertained while you and dh share coffee time inside and reconnect. Or taking the kids to the park together. They can play while you watch and reconnect with dh.

 

You will have to be the one to start initiating fun times for you and your dh. Be creative.

 

As for the new baby, I know quite a few women who take baby but leave the others home with dh while they are attending girl's night out.

 

I say this gently, it isn't a contest to see who gave up the most for the other. If you aren't happy with your situation you are the only one who can change it. If you need to talk to your friend more - call her. Or invite her to your house for the weekend. Or take the baby and go visit for a weekend.

 

Everything lasts a season.

[SailorMom]

I think it's very healthy for couples to have "away" time from each other. One night a week, or at least one night every other week, is not a bad thing. Him staying out until 1am playing board games (not out at a strip club, or betting on race horses) sounds great to me. Guys need guy time, and there is nothing selfish about it. My mom tried to stop my dad from having any sort of guy time, and they had horrible marriage issues.... She wanted all of his attention - not healthy.

As for your own time - he can't help that your time is with moms or that your once a month is emotional. Why not have a board game night of your own? MAKE dh watch the kids, etc. He also can't help that your best friend lives far away and you haven't made new close friendships where you are. These are not issues with him having friends, these are your issues. I am saying that as nicely as I can - this isn't snippy (although I can see how it could sound that way so assume a nice tone of voice). This is coming from a military wife who has had to make new friendships so many times I can't count, but whose closest friend lives on the other side of the country.

As for having a baby soon - I think your DH would understand if (for a short while) after the baby comes home he needs to put a hold on guy night. But right now - I can't see a reason for him not to strengthen his friendships, and you should do the same :)

:grouphug:

He sounds like more of an extrovert than you. My DH and I are opposites with that. He is a total extrovert and wants to be around tons of people all the time. I'm not. I can be just fine without it. Although, in order to strengthen my friendships I actively make sure I am giving my female friends quality time.

Also- you cannot give him everything he needs. You cannot be a "guy" for him. Guys need guy time. They need to be around other men. This is normal and healthy.

Lastly, quality time for yourselves. No one can make this happen except the two of you. Take turns planning things to do alone and as a family, getting babysitters, or just mapping out "after-bedtime" quality time like playing a game, watching a movie, etc.

[fairfarmhand]

Hmmm ... interesting topic. Here are my thoughts based my marriage, its strengths and weaknesses ...

 

Parents with young children need to focus on each other and that relationship. It is so easy to get caught up into being parents and forgetting to be friends/lovers. Doing something fun with just each other (or with the nursing baby) should be much higher priority than individual friendships outside of that relationship. I know that dh and I struggle with that. It has come to light more so now that we will have one leaving the next next fall.

 

I believe it is important for married couples to have friends in common - other married couples - other families. Dh and I used to have this and it was very healthy for our relationship. He had guys to talk to, I had women to talk to, but we were together. We lost most of those friendships after we all started having children and having very different ideas about parenting and lifestyles. When we started meeting families after we had children, we would get to know them and they would move away or a few of them divorced.

 

While I do believe having one's own friendships is important, the question is "are these friendships enhancing my life?" "Am I a person my spouse would like when I am with these people?" What your dh is proposing does seem very unfair. He sounds like he wants to act like a "single person" with these people. He sounds like he becomes thoughtless and irresponsible around them. The other thing is frequency. If the frequency of "guy's nights" is more than that of "our nights - where the focus is not on being parents", then there is a serious imbalance in the relationship. I personally would feel threatened by it and I don't have your history.

 

If I were in this situation, I would lay it on the line and tell him that what he is proposing is not good for your relationship and is not fair to you. No one is saying he can't see his friends, but once a week is unreasonable, especially with young children. Once a month? Maybe, but only if he could come to a point where he can be more responsible.

:iagree:

[Starr]

I wouldn't like it. I feel like if it's too difficult for the two of us or the family to have extra, fun time together it doesn't make sense for one of us to go out. For various reasons I would not be happy about dh coming home very late after drinking with his buddies. It seems, the way you tell it, that he looses his family focus when he's out. It's not like they are hanging out for 2 hours and he's coming home. Maybe his buddies should come to your house.

[Ellie]

I wouldn't like it. I feel like if it's too difficult for the two of us or the family to have extra, fun time together it doesn't make sense for one of us to go out. For various reasons I would not be happy about dh coming home very late after drinking with his buddies. It seems, the way you tell it, that he looses his family focus when he's out. It's not like they are hanging out for 2 hours and he's coming home. Maybe his buddies should come to your house.

:iagree:

[J-rap]

The way I see it, if it helps make him a better person, and as a result -- a better husband and father, then it's okay. If it does the opposite, then it's not okay.

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

I wouldn't like it. I feel like if it's too difficult for the two of us or the family to have extra, fun time together it doesn't make sense for one of us to go out. For various reasons I would not be happy about dh coming home very late after drinking with his buddies. It seems, the way you tell it, that he looses his family focus when he's out. It's not like they are hanging out for 2 hours and he's coming home. Maybe his buddies should come to your house.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I completely understand your concerns. BTDT.

 

My dh and I were told early in our marriage by every couple we knew we needed time apart to grow the relationship. Dh did things with friends. I did things with friends. Many years later we spent most of our time apart doing our own things. It ruined our marriage and it's a miracle we were able to start fresh and reprioritize things. I truly believe the time with friends thing that people push for is wrong and hurts marriages.

 

My dh and I found new interests for our family to do together. We have date nights. I do get out once a month for a homeschool meeting. Dh games on those nights at home. But we have tried to make our lives revolve around each other and our family. If dh wants to go mtn biking on a trail the family can't do I am all for him going with friends. but he lowered his athletic interests to be with us. I don't go out with friends like before but put my energy into my husband.

 

Our marriage was over before we both agreed to start over and put each other first. I don't miss the nights out with friends. I enjoy my husband. But it took both of us on the same page to put this focus into action. So tread lightly in how you talk to him about your concerns.

 

Dh was invited the other day to go out with a guy from work for drinks. But dh and I both agreed he's never been a drinking guy before, and isn't going to start now. We agreed to invite the family over. So far no response. We choose to push family now instead of individual interests. It means I don't scrapbook on long weekend retreats anymore. It means he doesn't adventure race anymore. We hope to do that as a family instead.

 

This works for us and is how we saved our marriage, so I hope you can talk openly with your husband and get your priorities on the same page so you can both be content with the final decision. :grouphug:

[LostSurprise]

Sounds very familiar. Could have written 4/5 of this.

 

My husband started going out once a week; board game night, men's wood shop, hitting Goodwill. I encouraged it because our home is pretty stressful right now and getting away helps him be a better father.

 

Me though? Nah, what do I have to do? I don't have that many friends here and most of them are SAHMs. Everything has to be scheduled. Plus I'd be so exhausted when 6pm came around I wouldn't want to go out. Dh also mentioned the library. Which is a bit more relaxing then the hardware store (unless you dh is really into projects in which case it might be similar).

 

So I was willing to let him go, but I was far too emotionally and physically exhausted to do the same and it was starting to tear at me. I was jealous. I was angry. Not just about this situation but about my entire situation.

 

1. People have different social needs. Some people need/want to be out 3 hours. Others need a longer, more complex time.

 

*Don't be down on him because his time takes longer.* Be happy for him.

 

I know its hard. I've suffered from depression the last few years and I can get angry that its so easy for my dh to compartmentalize our life and go off and have fun.

 

I can see that its good for him. Let this happen.

 

2. The library is a perfectly valid place to go. So is the movie theater, the mall, the park, the bike trail, the YMCA, the yarn store.

 

If this is scheduled weekly, you can start scheduling with your friends. Just because it would be hard doesn't mean it couldn't happen a few times a month. Until others schedule their time in it wouldn't hurt to wander around a bit. Take up a hobby or a class. Read in a coffee shop.

 

Just be happy he didn't say go to the 'grocery store.' Mine did. :tongue_smilie: And then he has the guts to say 'did you have fun?' afterward. At the grocery store!?!?!?!?! :lol:

 

All humor aside, I know at that point he was desperate to find something for me. He understood that he needed something and I probably did too.

 

3. Because his schedule is changing, there should be more couple time coming. Because you have a baby coming, probably most of this time will be at home. You have the ability to shape this time. What do you want to do? How will you connect with each other and your children?

 

Having time off will not change how you relate to each other, although it will help you feel more recharged, more yourself. You can take that feeling back to your nightly time together and make more/stronger connections.

 

 

 

I didn't start taking time for myself until I realized I was moderately depressed and if I didn't get out it was going to effect how I treated my children. I hope you won't wait that long. Once I went a few times, even if it was only to grab an ice cream cone and read a book by the river, I realized how vital this was to my sense of self. I still get jealous. Things are lot easier for my dh to leave behind, but I love him and so I want the best for him.

 

*try it

*talk to him about your late night fears

*ask him to come in by a certain time

*confess that you're jealous about his friendships and miss your own

*schedule weekends where you can see your bf (she coming to your or you going to her) while dh stays with the kids

*schedule these so that you feel you 'make up' some of the extra time your dh gets but that he feels is fair too

 

I really hope this works out for you. Once you start going its easier to see what you can do. Its taken me months just to realize what is available to me in this tiny town, and sometimes I'm still tired so I just go grocery shopping. :tongue_smilie: Shhh...don't tell dh.

[ktgrok]

First of all, wow. This board is amazing.

 

Every single response was heart felt, gentle, and full of wisdom. I have tears in my eyes actually.

 

I'm realizing that there are so many factors to this!

 

I think I am more jealous of his friends spending time with him, than him spending time with his friends, if that makes sense. I want to be the one out with him having fun! Sounds like date night really needs to happen, before the baby gets here and things change again. YOu are all right, the house is not an excuse. And although I'm NOT comfortable leaving my kids with people, I do have my son to act as my eyes and ears, and to keep his sister happy.

 

Also, I haven't talked to hubby about this yet. I started to, but was all over the place and it came out wrong. Also, I get uptight, as my ex told me I was a b@#ch for complaining about him going out, so I get nervous talking about it. Add in that my Dh's mom got angry and mean every time his dad went out, and there is a lot of baggage around this issue.

 

I think I do need to find a way to talk to him about compromise and balance without soundling like a shrew. If it was just dinner/drinks after work and he was home by 10pm that seems like plenty of time to me. But he always makes things "an event". We could talk about that.

 

Also yes, the friends in question are single. He has this phobia that his friends will forget about him, or he is being left out, because he doesn't have the time to sit around doing nothing that they do. It drives me a bit nuts actually....he will go out with them, and when I ask who attended he will list all his single friends. I've tried gently pointing out that he was the only married with kids guy there, that the others were NOT there and were home with their families, but he doesn't see it. Again, this is only every few months, so not a huge issue, but it does bug me a bit.

 

Maybe we need to think about rotating...one week he gets to go out, but is home at a decent hour, one week I get to, and twice a month we have a date night? Money also factors into this, but his new job came with a good raise, so I think that is part of it.

 

I have made some friends, through ICAN and a moms group, and they do have a moms night out at least once a month, I need to look into that. I have face blindness to some extent, so large groups of new people intimidate me.

 

I agree with those that said the best idea is to be friends with couples, and do things together as families, but the only two of his friends that have kids don't work for us....he doesn't like the wife of one of them, and I don't really enjoy spending time with the wife of the other.

 

I'd LOVE to have his friends over here, but that isn't what dh wants. He gets too uptight about if the house is nice enough, the repairs he hasn't made, etc. Plus I think he wants to hang out without me....something that kind of hurts.

[Mama Geek]

I have been through many changes with how much time dh works or doesn't work. When he doesn't work I get used to him being around most of the time. Then it is always hard when he starts back to work, usually working 60+ hours a week usually in a new location (sometimes with us and sometimes without.) He is a contractor and usually gets work away from our home. It always takes some adjustment no matter whether he is starting a job or finished with a job. Is he willing to also have fun times with you and the kids? One night a week I wouldn't worry about and I wouldn't worry about what time he comes home (unless you have reasons to be suspicious.) If dh goes out for an evening I can usually go to sleep before he gets home. You can come up with things for yourself. Even just going for a walk by yourself or with a friend.

 

I am suggesting giving it some time because change is never easy. Keep communications open between you and show some extra grace to each other.

[fairfarmhand]

can you write it all down, tell him that you DON'T want to sound controlling or nagging or shrewish, but you do have some concerns, most because of past insecurities.

 

This way you can edit and perfect the letter so that he can really understand your concerns.

[ktgrok]

I should have clarified that I can't really sleep when he is out late. I hate falling asleep for just an hour to be woken back up (dogs bark, alarm being put on, him changing clothes, etc), and so I end up staying up, or laying in bed tossing and turning wondering when he will be home.

 

Also, this weekend, I was sick with a miserable cold, and REALLY needed sleep, so was rather annoyed that he came home so late, and an hour after he had said he would be home.

[ktgrok]

can you write it all down, tell him that you DON'T want to sound controlling or nagging or shrewish, but you do have some concerns, most because of past insecurities.

 

This way you can edit and perfect the letter so that he can really understand your concerns.

 

I'm worried his reaction will be "fine. never mind." and jsut be silently upset.

[ktgrok]

again, I want to stress, he's a great guy. I felt bad, because when he brought up the library idea I went a bit "hormonal/tired/baby hasn't napped in days/I need a shower" pregnant woman on him. oops. I was like, "you get to hang out till the wee hours drinking good scotch and I get to return the overdue library books?!?!?" and he was totally confused, saying "but you said you WANTED to go to the library by yourself?!?" Poor man just didn't get it.

[BW1426]

I think every week is a bit much. But, what about every other week? I also think I would discuss with him how late is reasonable for each of you to stay out. I can't sleep if DH is out, so him being out until 12:30 would really negatively affect our family. I even like just going to the grocery store by myself. Seems like such a treat. We go on very few dates, but do date night at home regularly. We get take out after DD is in bed and just talk or watch a movie or tv show. It is much cheaper than going out and getting a babysitter.

 

Once the noob comes, I'd discuss maybe a month off of guys night out and figure out things the two of you can do to bond. If you can't go out because your exclusively nursing what about talking to DH about making one night a week his night to clean up the kitchen or fold laundry while you relax with the baby, craft or something else relaxing.

 

I think there are a lot of ways DH can give you a break without you actually having to leave, he just has to be committed to doing it and you have to let him.

[Starr]

Single people's lives are different than married peoples. I think one really has to make a shift.

[MrsBear]

 

1. When he has seen his friends in the past it turns into a long/late thing. For instance, he had a friend in town Sat. So he met that friend and some other friends for dinner. Cool. But that isn't enough. They then go back to the other friend's house 35 minutes away, play board games and have some scotch. He said he would be home about midnight, but didn't leave there until 12:30, so was home about 1am. Other times he has seen his friends he leaves the house at 4pm and is back around 1am or later. Now, to be fair, he hardly ever gets to do this, maybe a few times a year, but still. When I see my friends it is once a month at an ICAN meeting, which is very emotional, where I offer support to moms healing from c-sections or looking for VBACs, and I'm gone from 7pm to 10pm, at the latest. It just doesn't seem the same, and I don't know how to explain that.

 

I do see a huge value in guy time and since your DH has said he'd like to have it, perhaps you can discuss with him some "ground rules" that will help you feel comfortable when he does go out with the boys? Maybe explain to him that if he says he'll be home around midnight, that if he's running late, a call or text is important so you aren't worried about him? It's not asking your permission to stay out longer than planned, but letting you know that he's not getting in until a later hour.

 

My DH does have 'guy activities' he does and does plan a couple of nights a month to hang out with guys.....sometimes they're here, watching something downstairs on the TV or shooting pool, sometimes they out at a local restaurant to eat, sometimes they're at someone's home playing cards or whatever. I do think these times are important for DH to maintain his relationships with other men.....but, they don't interfere with us, we also make time for us....and for me.

 

2. My friend are moms, they are not available that often! I suppose I could make some more friends or something. But when I mentioned this he said "well, you could go to the library or get coffee or whatever." Um..yes, in his defense i've mentioned in the past I'd like to be able to go to the library without the kids, so I can pick out books without struggling with them. But I don't think a 30 minute outing to the library to return books and pick more out is the same as what he is planning, and shouldn't be thought of that way. I explained that me going to the library without the kids is more equivalent to him going to the hardware store without the kids. He wouldn't ever think i was doing him a favor by keeping the kids so he could have a relaxing time at the hardware store, it would just be assumed that if i was available I'd keep them. I'd like the same courtesy, but that isn't a girls evening out by any means.

 

Time you have, to spend with friends, or doing something you like without DH and the kids - that's yours to decide. I don't think your time has to be spent the same way your DH spends his....if you don't want to spend it with friends, or they're not available, find something you do want to do and do it.

 

3. I don't think we need time with other people that much, when we don't get fun times out with each other. We don't have family near by, so we don't have anyone to watch the kids when we go out. We had a babysitter once, in the past 2 years, and I would have her back but our house is being remodeled and is totally torn apart, so I don't know that I want someone else in here.

 

This is the issue - you don't feel you already have enough time with DH and until you and he do find that time, IMO, it'll be hard to accept him going out with others because you and he aren't already spending enough time together, alone, just the two of you. I'd make that the priority first....perhaps suggest that you and DH do two nights a month, where you both clear schedules and do something together, get a babysitter, and go out....then once a month he gets a night with the guys and you get a night to either have a night for you or you and friends, OR you can use your one night to do something else with him or with him and your kids - it is your time afterall to decide what to do with!

 

Personally I don't think your DH "needs" a night a week out with the guys, I don't think I'd like it if my DH wanted to be out once a week, but I'm okay with a couple of nights a month, and totally okay if he brings the guys here (hint, hint) for a night of games, eating, TV, whatever...and think that maybe that's why I am okay with it, because it isn't always out, but sometimes here too.

[LibraryLover]

Once a week seems like a lot, I'd be more open to once or twice a month, with the off weeks being a chance for family time or a spousal date (however short, as I get not wanting to leave nurslings).

 

Guys getting together to play poker or whatnot (I guess now it's XBox for some lol), and laughing is something I think is emotionally healthy male bonding time, as long as they are not getting rip-roaring drunk and going out to put dollar bills in stripper thongs. I used to love peeking downstairs in the basement when I was a kid at my Dad playing pool with my uncles and grandfather. Of course, back then I was exposed to a lot of second hand smoke. ;) I loved their innocent rowdiness and guffaws. I also loved seeing the women (nostly my grandmothers) sitting at the table smoking and playing cards. I still remember their Mary Tyler Moore capris, and later, pantsuits. Ah, the good old days. lol:tongue_smilie:

Edited April 24, 2012 by LibraryLover

[KungFuPanda]

Have you considered that you are still tired from the old schedule? With the new schedule won't you see more of him on the other 6 evenings that he's NOT with his friends and have more family time on the weekends? Won't you get more time to just sit and talk to him now? Once that becomes your new normal, you may feel much less stressed about it all.

 

Also, think long-term. All of those single guys are likely to get married one day :D This leads to couple friendships, and weddings to attend, and children, and younger couples looking to you two for advice when you are cruising along with older kids making it look easy and THEY are exhausted from little ones.

[Coffeetime]

I think it's very healthy for couples to have "away" time from each other. One night a week, or at least one night every other week, is not a bad thing. Him staying out until 1am playing board games (not out at a strip club, or betting on race horses) sounds great to me. Guys need guy time, and there is nothing selfish about it. My mom tried to stop my dad from having any sort of guy time, and they had horrible marriage issues.... She wanted all of his attention - not healthy.

As for your own time - he can't help that your time is with moms or that your once a month is emotional. Why not have a board game night of your own? MAKE dh watch the kids, etc. He also can't help that your best friend lives far away and you haven't made new close friendships where you are. These are not issues with him having friends, these are your issues. I am saying that as nicely as I can - this isn't snippy (although I can see how it could sound that way so assume a nice tone of voice). This is coming from a military wife who has had to make new friendships so many times I can't count, but whose closest friend lives on the other side of the country.

As for having a baby soon - I think your DH would understand if (for a short while) after the baby comes home he needs to put a hold on guy night. But right now - I can't see a reason for him not to strengthen his friendships, and you should do the same :)

:grouphug:

He sounds like more of an extrovert than you. My DH and I are opposites with that. He is a total extrovert and wants to be around tons of people all the time. I'm not. I can be just fine without it. Although, in order to strengthen my friendships I actively make sure I am giving my female friends quality time.

Also- you cannot give him everything he needs. You cannot be a "guy" for him. Guys need guy time. They need to be around other men. This is normal and healthy.

Lastly, quality time for yourselves. No one can make this happen except the two of you. Take turns planning things to do alone and as a family, getting babysitters, or just mapping out "after-bedtime" quality time like playing a game, watching a movie, etc.

 

:iagree: with every word. My husband is an extrovert. He needs his social time. It re-energizes him and honestly, makes him much happier when he's at home.;)

I'm an introvert and don't need that much social time, but I do make sure that once a month I organize a girl's night out with some friends, and when I need time away from the kids, my husband watches them while I do the library or shopping or coffee.

We make sure each other's individual needs for away time are met, and it makes for a very happy, healthy marriage. It's not "equal" and never will be, because we have different needs. :001_smile:

BTW, it took me a few years to realize that I had to just take control of getting my time away. He wasn't going to plan it for me, that's for sure! So grab the calendar, plan what you want to plan, and be sweet about his time away. ;)

[Parrothead]

Katie, I didn't want to multi-quote all of your later posts. But I thought I should mention that while I'm sure your dh is an all around great guy, from your later posts it sounds as if he is a bit immature yet in some of his thinking.

 

Mine is like that too so I've had to learn to deal with it in odd ways. You might have to get creative.

 

 

Oh, and the whole pouty-I-just-won't-go-out if you bring the subject up thing... What worked best for me was to just not say anything. Since I am the social coordinator for the family I simply schedule couple things or family things in advance. I put them on the calendar. So when Friday rolls around and I hear "I have a fire meeting Tuesday night," I can something about being home early because Wednesday is family pizza and movie night. He has a choice to come home right after the meeting instead of hanging out with the boys or hanging out with the boys and making the effort the next evening as well instead of going to bed early. Since family pizza and movie night can get quite rowdy no one is sleeping trough it. :D

[Mrs Mungo]

Well, I can say what we do *now*, but we are at a very different place in our child-rearing journey than you. We go out on dates and I get a night out with my friends once or twice a month, he gets to golf or something once a month or so. But, back when our kids were younger? It was much more common for us to have another family over for dinner and game night or go somewhere with another family versus getting alone time once a week (heck, we don't even get that now).

[kwickimom]

Single people's lives are different than married peoples. I think one really has to make a shift.

 

I would be OK with dh hanging out with single friends here and there but not every week and not if it included drinking. That is not our lifestyle now and I feel that values and lifestyles of married men are different from single guys.

[fairfarmhand]

op, how long have you been married? Those first couple years we had these same issues crop up. We had a child early on and the mental shift from single guy to married guy was difficult for my guy. Mentally he knew where his responsibilities were but in actually implementing it was much more difficult.

 

I think for you (it seems, and I was like this too!) that the main problem is that you don't feel that you and your dh are really having fun TOGETHER. If that issue was addressed, I doubt you would care as much about his plans with his friends.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would work on that ONE thing.

 

Tell him that going out with friends one night a week might be okay for you for awhile, but what you'd REALLY like is for you and he to have one night per week where your relationship is priority. Once you feel connected and secure with him, you may not worry so much about the other nights.

 

Plus, when you are feeling really good about your relationship, you will give him something (wink wink) to look forward to when he gets home from being out with the guys.

[*********]

My random thoughts on some of what you posted are in blue.

 

He has said he thinks it would be a great idea for him to hang out with his friends one evenign a week, and I should do the same. I think it sounds like a good idea, too.

 

1. When he has seen his friends in the past it turns into a long/late thing. For instance, he had a friend in town Sat. So he met that friend and some other friends for dinner. Cool. But that isn't enough. They then go back to the other friend's house 35 minutes away, play board games and have some scotch. He said he would be home about midnight, but didn't leave there until 12:30, so was home about 1am. Other times he has seen his friends he leaves the house at 4pm and is back around 1am or later. Now, to be fair, he hardly ever gets to do this, maybe a few times a year, but still. When I see my friends it is once a month at an ICAN meeting, which is very emotional, where I offer support to moms healing from c-sections or looking for VBACs, and I'm gone from 7pm to 10pm, at the latest. It just doesn't seem the same, and I don't know how to explain that. Not everything has to be 'the same'. Do what makes you happy with your 'once a week' outing, and let your dh do the same. I see nothing wrong with a dh staying out to 12 or 1 once a week, so long as whateve he's doing is something you're ok with.

 

2. He wouldn't ever think i was doing him a favor by keeping the kids so he could have a relaxing time at the hardware store, it would just be assumed that if i was available I'd keep them. I'd like the same courtesy, but that isn't a girls evening out by any means. Yeah, what's with that?! My dh is the same way, and I have girlfriends who have similar situations. If dh has to go to the tire store, he goes; and the kids stay home with me. If *I* need to go run three random errands (let's say, I need a posterboard from Michaels, new socks for the boys from Kmart, and to pick up bagels from the bagel shop), it's kinda assumed I'll take at least one of the little boys with me, if not both. Why is that?! It drives me CRAZY. And dh acts like he's giving me a 'break' by keeping them both if he does. Um, YOU always just *assume* that you'll have no little people in tow when running errands, and YOU don't think I'M doing you a favor when they stay home. So why the other way around? I've even talked to dh about it before, and all he can say is 'you know it's different'. Um, I suppose he means that since I'm with the kids all day every day, I'm 'used' to it, whereas he assumes it's more taxing in some way for him to take them on an errand. But of course, I see it differently. ;) I think if anything, that dh should take the kids on his errand and/or keep them when I run mine since sometimes I'd like a BREAK from being in charge of people all the time.

Whew. I feel better. :D

 

3. I don't think we need time with other people that much, when we don't get fun times out with each other.

 

Basically, it makes me VERY nervous for us to have most of our "fun" times apart from each other. Does that make sense? I think we will star to associate fun and freedom with other people, rather than our spouses, and that seems dangerous. I get what you're saying, but I think you're wrong. For dh and I at this season in our lives, there's just no one for us to leave the kids with so that we can go out by ourselves. And we are ok with that. But that doesn't mean we can't have friends. (Now, dh has male friends, and I have female friends. I won't get into that, but if that were the issue, it'd be another story, at least for us.)

Plus, in a selfish truth, I'm due with a baby soon, I don't plan to introduce bottles any time early on, so I'm not going to be going out without a kid anytime in those months anyway. Again, it's just the season of life you're in. Nothing wrong with bringing a babe in arms to a mom's night out. I get that it's not 'by yourself', but that's what you've chosen for right now, you know? If it were REALLY important to you to be totally without kids, you could bottle feed. But it seems your priorities are that you'd like to breastfeed, so you have to accept reality that you'll have a little one with you at all times. Make peace with it, instead of feeling slighted by it.

 

Finally, right before my first marriage totally fell apart my ex started having "guys' nights' with his friends. they got more and more common and later and later, so I'm sure that is part of my paranoia. Gently, you've gotta let that go. Your dh is NOT your ex. Don't put that on him.

 

Oh, and there is also a bit of pity for myself because yes, he misses his friends, but I moved halfway across the state away from all my friends when I married him. I miss my best friend HORRIBLY, and see her maybe 3 times a year, and even then it is usually a holiday or party where her time is spent divided amongst me and a million other people. (for instance, we had an hour together alone in the past year).

 

Ok, so....pity party aside, please help me figure out my thinking, what I want, what is healthy, what is a good idea, and how to communicate my thoughts to my husband?

[nono]

Based upon the additional information you've provided, I'd do the following:

 

I'd plan a party! Yep, invite his single friends, his married friends and their families and all your newish friends. Maybe even some of your friends could come in from out of town and spend the weekend. In the meantime, before the party, dh could stay the heck home and finish up some of his projects that make him not want to have people over!

 

Really! The guys never come to your house? Heck, have everyone come to your house and help dh do whatever project isn't complete that he uses as an excuse not to have folks over! Then have them back for the party! By not attending to first things first, your husband is making something into a mountain that should be a mole hill. That's right. I said HE is. Not you. By fixing this issue, and then occasionally having boys night at your place, you would likely not feel run out on, because well, you will be in rotation in his "guy time" and getting to know his friends better, which is somewhat normal in a married relationship. :banghead: Just because he isn't your ex doesn't mean he can't exhibit some of the same behaviors.

 

Plus, maybe some of his single guy friends will meet some nice women at your party...and you can arrange some marriages! :tongue_smilie: