My cautionary tale

[snickelfritz]

Joining you ladies in the corner!! Has anyone mentioned online degrees you can live at home and earn??

 

.

I have heard many people that they don't hold these degrees in very high esteem. A degree doesn't do much good if you can't get hired. And it also wouldn't work for a degree that required lab work (any technical or science degree.)

 

I think these degrees work best for someone who is already employed in an industry, but needs the "piece of paper" for advancement. A situation that happened to a relative, where company policy required a degree--any degree--to go into management. Her associates degree and 15 years in the industry were what led them to "strongly suggest" she get her B.S., by any means necessary.

Edited April 20, 2012 by snickelfritz

[Janice in NJ]

Hi. Maybe in your state things are different.

 

Our big state mega-school is Rutgers. Stats for the Newark branch here:

http://www.collegeresults.org/search1ba.aspx?institutionid=187134,186399

 

Check under student characteristics. (21% are listed as being over 25 years olds; of the entire student body, 21% are part-timers)

Four-Year Grad Rate is still under 30%.

 

Hope things are better in your neck of the woods.

 

Peace,

Janice

[Heather in Neverland]

First, will you remain in Malaysia while he's in college? You should know that financial aid looks at present income. So, if for some reason you came back here and moved to a higher income his aid would be calculated as though he'd always had that higher income.

 

I have a couple of book suggestions for you. I attended a seminar by the author and thought she was really knowledgeable. http://www.expatwomen.com/expat-women-books-authors/the-global-nomads-guide-to-university-transition-tina-quick.php

 

Another book is called Third Culture Kid's Guide to College. http://www.denizenmag.com/2011/09/a-third-culture-kids-guide-to-college/

 

Both of these books are available through Amazon.

 

Thank you for these great recommendations!!!

 

For those in Michigan here is a link giving the information for community colleges and four-year colleges that participate in the MACRAO agreement.

 

http://http://www.macrao.org/Publications/MACRAOAgreement.asp

 

The MACRAO agreement lists which four-year schools will accept Associate degree transfers from participating community colleges (nearly all community colleges in MI) and with what provisos.

 

For Heather in NC: some Christian colleges, including the one I used to work for, give large scholarships for kids of missionaries.

 

This gives me a glimmer of hope. :grouphug:

 

Also, technically I from Michigan, still have a Michigan driver's license and Michigan address (I just happened to be living in NC when I chose my screen name:D) so now I am thinking I have some options....

[LibraryLover]

I don't know what people mean by being in the 'lonely corner." This whole thread is about the ridiculous costs, and how people are changing how they are approaching and paying for college in this time of deregulation, and the staggering, soaring costs of higher education that have come with that. I shared that tow of my kids were going to the local state uni, the schooled kid has a full tuition scholarship (although fees are higher ;) than tuition, so whoppee) and the other (hs'd, so not elegible for this exam tuition wavier) is living at home. While one planning to tty a year living on campus, we are not looking to borrow zillions of dollars. Nobody here is.

 

We're venting about the insanity, and sharing various creative ways the middle class is trying not to let themselves or their kids get shafted. The middle class will cease to exist if this keeps up. It's not about whether we want the boozing college 'experience' for our kids.

Edited April 20, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Scarlett]

THIS! A great education is a precious thing, but a college "experience" is much less important than life and work experience. (Full disclosure: Dave Ramsey has really changed my thinking on this topic since I went to college myself, and took a lot of stuff for granted.)

 

Dave Ramsey confirmed my feelings on it....because there was a time when I felt like the only person on the planet who thought it was craaaazy to go deeply in debt for a degree.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I have really been enjoying the frank discussion. Very glad to see the creative possibilities, the careful weighing of pro's and con's...I don't see very many people here or IRL ready to just lay down any amount of cash for their kids to go to college whether they have a vision for their future or not.

 

My son will be 35 years old when he is finally an ophthalmologist (if he goes that route)! He'll be trained as an electrician first, and then use his apprentice wages to put himself through his first four years, and then get loans (and hopefully scholarships and grants) for medical school. 35 years old, but a self-made man pulled up by his own bootstraps.

 

I will be bowled over by his courage and determination if he really does this.

[Briartell]

A family member if mine couldn't afford college in 1988 so he worked for an electrician. On the side he would fiddle around with computers. He made about 25,000 a year. Then he realized he could do some IT jobs but he didn't have the degree required to be hired. He did find that he could get better paying work if he earned Microsoft certification. He bought the huge books and read them cover to cover and studied hard. He passed all the tests in a two year time frame with flying colors.

 

This allowed him to be hired through a temp/contract work agency. He was sent to a major company making 60,000. Because he was a contract worker, his agency kept the other 20,000 the company paid for him. My relative learned that he needed a bachelors degree to come off contract and be hired full time with benefits. So he went to night school.

 

7 years later he had his bachelors and the company immediately hired him for their IT department. His pay was now 90,000 plus benefits. He no longer had to pay for $1000 a month health insurance for the first time in years. Two years after that he earned another major promotion which bumped him up to 125,000.

 

Overall it took him 18 years to get to this salary and job stability. I see his story as one that will be repeated by many more people today. High school graduates will have to work after high school before they get to college and then will go part time while they work.

[Jane in NC]

I don't know what people mean by being in the 'lonely corner." This whole thread is about the ridiculous costs, and how people are changing how they are approaching and paying for college in this time of deruglation, and the staggering, soaring costs of higher education. I shared that my kids were going to the local state uni, the schooled kid with a full tuition scholarship (although fees are higher ;) than tution, so whoppee) and the other (hs'd, so not elegible for this tution wavier) is living at home. One is going to live on campus, but we are not looking to borrow zillions of dollars. Nobody here is.

 

We're venting about the insanity, and sharing various creative ways the middle class is trying not to let themselves or their kids get shafted. The middle class will cease to exist if this keeps up. It's not about whether we want the boozing college 'experience' for our kids.

 

Thanks for stating this. I wondered if some of the recent posters were reading a different thread than the one in which I had been participating!

 

And perhaps these recent posters also missed Lori D's constructive spin-off thread.

 

One other thing that baffles me in these discussions is that some people assume that college equates debt. Many of us come from family cultures which place education before certain material goods or comforts. Some of us began college savings accounts for our children when they were infants. I did not have the cash reserves of the sticker price of a private college. But with merit aid, my son is currently attending an LAC debt free. This would not be the case had we not saved.

[Plucky]

Thanks for stating this. I wondered if some of the recent posters were reading a different thread than the one in which I had been participating!

 

And perhaps these recent posters also missed Lori D's constructive spin-off thread.

 

One other thing that baffles me in these discussions is that some people assume that college equates debt. Many of us come from family cultures which place education before certain material goods or comforts. Some of us began college savings accounts for our children when they were infants. I did not have the cash reserves of the sticker price of a private college. But with merit aid, my son is currently attending an LAC debt free. This would not be the case had we not saved.

 

Yep. And until you get to this point you may not see things the same way. It's like parenting. We are all perfect parents until we have kids. I had an idea about college and costs. It's different when you are actually facing THIS kid who is going to THIS college. Fun stuff. :lol:

[kubiac]

[double post]

Edited April 20, 2012 by kubiac

[kubiac]

so forgive me if I am repeating things.

 

First of all, test scores are super important, so pay the money for a test prep class. It will make a difference.

 

Second, have your child apply to schools where their scores and grades are in the top 25th percentile - or higher. We did this with my sons and they had merit aid offered at EVERY school. Going to community college for 2 years might not end up cheaper in the long run, because you very rarely get any merit aid as a transfer.

 

Third, research college essays, there is a correct way to write them and it is not that hard to do. There are multiple books dedicated to this and online sites as well. A good essay could really make a difference.

 

Another make or break item is extra curriculars, start keeping track freshman year, count hours, make sure there is volunteer work, sports, interning - and if your child has a specific interest, try to assemble all these activities around it. Passion is the word of the day.

 

The application process is important, research the way each school wants things done - apply the way they prefer, if they offer more than one option.

And put together a really nice looking transcript (not that anybody here wouldn't)

 

For a high performer, apply to some 100% needs met schools. If your EFC is low, they will give you everything you need. My dd will be going to a small needs met school in the fall, the tuition is lower than we dreamed possible. She iss a very unique child with hundreds of hours of very specific extra curriculars, looking for a degree in a very specific (and rare) major. One top tier school put her on the waitlist, but the second - looking for unique individuals - wanted her. This is her dream school, with excellent lab facilities and opportunities. Yes, some of it was luck, but we also worked very hard to present her at her best, and I think that paid off.

 

Spend time, lots of time, on College Confidential - especially on the Financial Aid forum. I learned sooo much there, and was prepared in advance for anything that might have happened. Yes, it can be a bit snobby, but get past that and learn everything you can.

 

Education is very big in my family - if any of my kids had had a passion for a trade I would have blessed them to go off and learn it, but they all have different desires, and I have no qualms about scrimping to help them get there.

 

Thank you for this. :)

 

If I might offer two other pieces of advice that were shared with me that I found especially helpful:

* Find some kids in your community that are two or three or four years older who appear to be on a college-prep track, find out what they are doing (extracurricular, academic) and just follow in their footsteps!

* Consider the writing skill of people you ask to do recommendations. For example (and forgive my bias), but I would tend to assume that English teachers might be able to write especially elegantly! A physics teacher for whom English is a second language might find it more difficult to effectively articulate your child's strengths.

[mamakim]

Joining you ladies in the corner!! Has anyone mentioned online degrees you can live at home and earn??

 

CLEP testing?? My friend earned her AA through the local community college by testing + 2 required classes there.. It took her 6 months and $2000.. then transferred to a 4 yr school.

 

But check before embarking . . . the U of W's, for example, don't accept/recognize CLEP credits, so the plan to transfer them in wouldn't work, and I've heard the same from other schools.

 

One hopes that preparation was sufficient for our children to maintain great GPAs while at uni, but dorm life, (and for out of state students homesickness, no parent there) . . . both of my sons' merit scholarships had/have 3.2/3.4 GPAs attached. That's just one class going badly and the scholarship can be lost. I watch how feverishly hard my ds 2 is working to keep it up - so proud of him - but there was one term where it was really nail-bitingly close.

[Julie in MN]

But check before embarking . . . the U of W's, for example, don't accept/recognize CLEP credits, so the plan to transfer them in wouldn't work, and I've heard the same from other schools.

Have you checked all the majors at these schools? It tends to vary in each department. I just did a quick check of Madison, where we have family, and there were some CLEPs that were listed:

http://clep.collegeboard.org/college-credit/university-of-wisconsin-madison?destination=/search/colleges/us%3Fsearch_type%3D0

[mamakim]

Have you checked all the majors at these schools? It tends to vary in each department. I just did a quick check of Madison, where we have family, and there were some CLEPs that were listed:

http://clep.collegeboard.org/college-credit/university-of-wisconsin-madison?destination=/search/colleges/us%3Fsearch_type%3D0

 

I should've been more specific! The poster who posted that is from Washington, as I am, and I was referring to University of Washington, forgetting that there are many places that locals would call "U of W"! :001_smile:

[arliemaria]

Yes but college debt and the cost of college are exponentially more than it was 20 to 30 years year even when inflation is taken into consideration.

 

I agree that retirement is important and that students should try to pay their way for college but today it is like climbing Mount Everest instead of walking up a knoll.

 

I think our country needs to do something to fix this situation. IMO perhaps, high school should end after sophmore year (with the caveat that a strong education is supplied) and the last 2 years of high school should be the attainment of an associate degree or vocational school paid for with school taxes. I am sure there a multitude of solutions but IMO parents and students should not have to take out the equivalent of a mortgage to get a an education. Our country will suffer if we end up with an uneducated populace.

 

:iagree:I have not finished reading this thread, but I very much agree with this statement.

[Julie in MN]

I should've been more specific! The poster who posted that is from Washington, as I am, and I was referring to University of Washington, forgetting that there are many places that locals would call "U of W"! :001_smile:

 

Too funny. I've never been to WA, so it didn't occur to me, either. :)

[Julie in MN]

One thing I've noticed lately is that folks today seem to expect all colleges are going to be open to them, and that's probably a good correction to make early on.

 

Here's a price list for one of our local private K-12 schools (Breck), and it doesn't include dorms and lunch plans like some of the East Coast boarding schools.

 

Pre/K Half Day: $16,070

Pre/K Full Day: $21,870

Grades 1-4: $24,205

Grades 5-8: $24,840

Grades 9-11: $24,995

Grade 12: $25,215

 

This is per year, per student, and some families I've worked with have had 3 kids in private school, sometimes they are all also in orchestra lessons, theater lessons, Kumon tutoring, they know their geography because they have traveled the world, they have nannies to help with homework, and on it goes -- these numbers are just the tip of the iceberg. The wealthy international students that someone mentioned sometimes don't even have to work for excellent grades because they are guaranteed jobs at home.

 

I actually think it's nice that wealthy families spend there income on education, but I don't necessarily want to give up the things they do to have that income. So my kids probably won't go to the colleges they attend, any more than my kids went to the high schools they attend.

 

My kids will probably miss a few really cool opportunities in the world (I met someone whose East Coast archaeology degree was really going to be used because she had connections to real jobs in that field, whereas an archaeology degree in my family has been useless). Maybe I grieve it all a tiny bit. However, I still think my kids can be well educated and have meaningful careers.

 

Julie

[Plucky]

One thing I've noticed lately is that folks today seem to expect all colleges are going to be open to them, and that's probably a good correction to make early on.

 

Here's a price list for one of our local private K-12 schools (Breck), and it doesn't include dorms and lunch plans like some of the East Coast boarding schools.

 

Pre/K Half Day: $16,070

Pre/K Full Day: $21,870

Grades 1-4: $24,205

Grades 5-8: $24,840

Grades 9-11: $24,995

Grade 12: $25,215

 

This is per year, per student, and some families I've worked with have had 3 kids in private school, sometimes they are all also in orchestra lessons, theater lessons, Kumon tutoring, they know their geography because they have traveled the world, they have nannies to help with homework, and on it goes -- these numbers are just the tip of the iceberg. The wealthy international students that someone mentioned sometimes don't even have to work for excellent grades because they are guaranteed jobs at home.

 

I actually think it's nice that wealthy families spend there income on education, but I don't necessarily want to give up the things they do to have that income. So my kids probably won't go to the colleges they attend, any more than my kids went to the high schools they attend.

 

My kids will probably miss a few really cool opportunities in the world (I met someone whose East Coast archaeology degree was really going to be used because she had connections to real jobs in that field, whereas an archaeology degree in my family has been useless). Maybe I grieve it all a tiny bit. However, I still think my kids can be well educated and have meaningful careers.

 

Julie

 

Don't forget these schools have financial aid & scholarships. Not everyone going to a private school is wealthy. :001_smile:

[kalanamak]

I should've been more specific! The poster who posted that is from Washington, as I am, and I was referring to University of Washington, forgetting that there are many places that locals would call "U of W"! :001_smile:

 

University of Washington is not U of W. It is always UW. I would think U of W is Wisconsin, if pressed to guess.

[LibraryLover]

Yep. And until you get to this point you may not see things the same way. It's like parenting. We are all perfect parents until we have kids. I had an idea about college and costs. It's different when you are actually facing THIS kid who is going to THIS college. Fun stuff. :lol:

 

Yes!

 

And dang, I do looove seeing my typos copied and pasted. lol

Edited April 21, 2012 by LibraryLover

[mamakim]

University of Washington is not U of W. It is always UW. I would think U of W is Wisconsin, if pressed to guess.

 

:sad: sorry.

[Sneezyone]

Both my parents are UDub alums (...I had better taste) LOL. It's no different than me moving down south and everyone assuming USC is South Carolina.:lol:

[Audrey]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

 

:iagree: I would also consider that the student get a job to pay for at least the room & board, and books. In fact, I expect that to be the very least my kid should do to pay for college.

[Susan in KY]

Home'scool, thank you for posting this. It is causing me to re-think my approach, and I am grateful to be doing that now instead of scrambling later.

[lauracolumbus]

I mentioned Oxford and Cambridge. They are hard to get into but, considering the cost of excellent US universities, they are worth Americans considering. A degree at an English university is only three years long. At Oxford, you pay:

 

Between £13,000 and £20,000 p.a. in university fees

Around £5,000 p.a. in college fees

Around £9,000 in living expenses

 

Plus air fares.

 

So it comes in a between £27,000 and £34,000 p.a. for each of three years, so a total of £81,000 and £102,000 total plus air fares for a degree from one of the most prestigious universities in the world. It's not cheap, but it's very competitive. That's between USD 130,000 and 163,000.

 

FWIW, our US 529 funds can be used for British universities.

 

Just an idea....

 

Laura

 

Hmm, my dh went there, and I would never have considered it for my kids. Thanks so much for mentioning this.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

Hmm, my dh went there, and I would never have considered it for my kids. Thanks so much for mentioning this.

 

Laura

 

I will say that I suspect that getting in is much harder than it was in my (and presumably your DH's) time. I didn't try to get in - I had other interests - but I got the impression at the time that it was hard but not impossible for a reasonably bright and studious child. So many more children now get top marks that anything but the best is just not good enough. Here are entry requirements for US students to Cambridge.

 

The Oxford and Cambridge degrees are very specialised. If you wanted something with a more general first year (leading to a four-year degree) then a Scottish degree would suit you better. That's an extra year of expense, of course. There are a lot of American students at St Andrews, for example.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[BlsdMama]

Now, I'm not sure even the $25,000 was worth it, but I cannot even get my head around what you guys are all talking about. I guess I'd better be doing some more research if we are thinking about our kids going to college. We have 5!

 

:glare:

 

I'm only thinking about them one at a time.

DH's education cost us over $100K if you count paying in blood, sweat, and tears. ;) He paid off $65K by joining the military, they paid for his MBA as well, and we are still carrying some. I *really* want the oldest going to a private Christian college if/when she goes, but I tell you what, the time is FAST approaching.

[PiCO]

I understand wanting your kids to have the "college experience". But in your reality, I would be considering community college.

 

Yes, and that college experience isn't the best for everyone.

 

I think the important part of the experience is to live on one's own. My older dd will be taking a gap year, she's trying to get a job on a cruise ship or with Disney (as an acrobat.) Failing that, she will be looking for a job out of state.

 

Anyone know of a good gap year experience abroad? There's got to be a reputable company that helps young adults get jobs and housing somewhere. There are a lot of young adults in this country working in the hospitality industry from Europe.

[Scarlett]

Yes, and that college experience isn't the best for everyone.

 

I agree. I was discussing this thread with my dh and asked him 'what happened to 'young adult' experience? First job, first car, first apartment....all of that THRILLED me.' He was the same way.

 

IMO, the 'college experience' is just one more way that adulthood can be delayed.

 

I think the important part of the experience is to live on one's own. My older dd will be taking a gap year, she's trying to get a job on a cruise ship or with Disney (as an acrobat.) Failing that, she will be looking for a job out of state.

 

I think this is SUCH a good idea. I hope to encourage my son in something similar....maybe even a gap year where he spends some time working and some time volunteering while living at home....this will give him time to figure out what he might want to do work wise---to make a living. This is especially a good idea with academically bright kids who easily finish up high school by 16 or 17 but IMO are too young to go off on their own in the big wide world....

 

Anyone know of a good gap year experience abroad? There's got to be a reputable company that helps young adults get jobs and housing somewhere. There are a lot of young adults in this country working in the hospitality industry from Europe.

 

How about a year as an exchange student?

[Laura Corin]

 

Anyone know of a good gap year experience abroad? There's got to be a reputable company that helps young adults get jobs and housing somewhere. There are a lot of young adults in this country working in the hospitality industry from Europe.

 

Right now, youth unemployment is so high in Europe that it's hard to see overseas young people (who need visas, support, accommodation, maybe language help) being offered jobs. I have heard of live-in tutoring jobs in Europe for native English speakers though.

 

Laura

[happypamama]

Okay, while we're on the subject of college, is it still beneficial to attend a college that your parent(s) attended? DH and I are both Penn State alums, and I also am an alum of their honors program. I had assumed that that would look good if our children ever wanted to go there and join the honors program, but maybe not anymore? That has been one reason we've wanted to remain in PA, because of the benefits of in-state tuition plus honors scholarship, but maybe it doesn't matter nowadays?

[lauracolumbus]

I will say that I suspect that getting in is much harder than it was in my (and presumably your DH's) time. I didn't try to get in - I had other interests - but I got the impression at the time that it was hard but not impossible for a reasonably bright and studious child. So many more children now get top marks that anything but the best is just not good enough. Here are entry requirements for US students to Cambridge.

 

The Oxford and Cambridge degrees are very specialised. If you wanted something with a more general first year (leading to a four-year degree) then a Scottish degree would suit you better. That's an extra year of expense, of course. There are a lot of American students at St Andrews, for example.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

St. Andrews sounds like another great option. I'm going to go check out Trinity College, Dublin as well. Who knows maybe they'll work harder to study abroad.

 

Thanks again.

Laura

[Barbara H]

Okay, while we're on the subject of college, is it still beneficial to attend a college that your parent(s) attended? DH and I are both Penn State alums, and I also am an alum of their honors program. I had assumed that that would look good if our children ever wanted to go there and join the honors program, but maybe not anymore? That has been one reason we've wanted to remain in PA, because of the benefits of in-state tuition plus honors scholarship, but maybe it doesn't matter nowadays?

 

Legacy status is much less important than it used to be. It matters not at all at some schools, more at others. If you are a donate a new library kind of alum that's something different.

[Joyful]

I just sat down to read this thread. (Yeah, I haven't been on the board much lately.) I've been hearing from some of the moms at our co-op about the high cost of tuition for their kids. But this thread has been an eye-opener for me.

 

This thread is so long I skipped many pages. So, please forgive me if I ask a question that's already been answered. (Please direct me direct to the thread page if it's been discussed already. Thanks!)

 

Have people discussed why the cost of college has skyrocketed (in relation to median income)?

 

We live in a city with 3 universities and many more in the surrounding suburbs. We have visited the 3 university campuses due to various community events. The physical facilities are amazing - from the new buildings to student gyms to cafes/cafeterias. I have read some articles here and there stating that some of the increased cost of college has resulted from facility upgrades by the various institutions. These upgrades were made by each institution in order to compete for students (and thus for the parent-dollar).

 

When I went to college 20+ years ago, our campus had a mix of newer and older dorms. In the older dorms, the bathrooms were in the basement. Our cafeteria didn't offer much in terms of choices. It was an extremely competitive school to get into. We visited the campus 5 years ago. The old dorms have all been remodeled. The students have fabulous workout gyms. The Student Center houses an upscale cafeteria with many gourmet choices. And these are just some of the facility improvements that I noticed.

 

It seems difficult to turn back the clock, as it were, to a time when one could choose a school that offered good academics, friendly campus culture without the dressings of "great facilities." It seems that most of the colleges/universities are competing for the "best students" and the money and reputation that come with it. Are there any colleges/universities that don't play this game?

 

Will it be possible for families to band together and say, we won't go for that? We're OK with plain facilities to hold down the costs? Or is this all out of our influence? Are the "market forces" so strong that "consumers (students/parents)" have to just play along with the system or find a totally different path?

[LibraryLover]

You might really enjoy the book, Colleges That Change Lives.

 

It's all about finding the right fit for a student. There is a lot of discusssion about various programs and colleges. It does address the money issue as well. It's one of the best books about the modern application process I've seen.

 

I just sat down to read this thread. (Yeah, I haven't been on the board much lately.) I've been hearing from some of the moms at our co-op about the high cost of tuition for their kids. But this thread has been an eye-opener for me.

 

This thread is so long I skipped many pages. So, please forgive me if I ask a question that's already been answered. (Please direct me direct to the thread page if it's been discussed already. Thanks!)

 

Have people discussed why the cost of college has skyrocketed (in relation to median income)?

 

We live in a city with 3 universities and many more in the surrounding suburbs. We have visited the 3 university campuses due to various community events. The physical facilities are amazing - from the new buildings to student gyms to cafes/cafeterias. I have read some articles here and there stating that some of the increased cost of college has resulted from facility upgrades by the various institutions. These upgrades were made by each institution in order to compete for students (and thus for the parent-dollar).

 

When I went to college 20+ years ago, our campus had a mix of newer and older dorms. In the older dorms, the bathrooms were in the basement. Our cafeteria didn't offer much in terms of choices. It was an extremely competitive school to get into. We visited the campus 5 years ago. The old dorms have all been remodeled. The students have fabulous workout gyms. The Student Center houses an upscale cafeteria with many gourmet choices. And these are just some of the facility improvements that I noticed.

 

It seems difficult to turn back the clock, as it were, to a time when one could choose a school that offered good academics, friendly campus culture without the dressings of "great facilities." It seems that most of the colleges/universities are competing for the "best students" and the money and reputation that come with it. Are there any colleges/universities that don't play this game?

 

Will it be possible for families to band together and say, we won't go for that? We're OK with plain facilities to hold down the costs? Or is this all out of our influence? Are the "market forces" so strong that "consumers (students/parents)" have to just play along with the system or find a totally different path?

Edited April 23, 2012 by LibraryLover

[happypamama]

Legacy status is much less important than it used to be. It matters not at all at some schools, more at others. If you are a donate a new library kind of alum that's something different.

 

Hahaha, I wish!

 

That's what I was afraid of, that legacy status matters less now. I suppose that's both good and bad, though.

[Momof3littles]

Joyful-

When my university would call my parents during their various fund drives, my dad often told them that they lost him when they started hanging copper rain gutters and rain spouts on all of the new construction student apts and other buildings. My tuition at the time was about 25K/yr. My university was in a somewhat run-down city with a good bit of crime. Perhaps not the best use of resources, to put it mildly.

[Joyful]

You might really enjoy the book, Colleges That Change Lives.

 

It's all about finding the right fit for a student. There is a lot of discusssion about various programs and colleges. They adress the money issue as well. It's one of the best books about the modern application process I've seen.

 

I skimmed through that book. Quite an interesting one.

I will have to borrow it from the library again to read the part about finances.

Thanks!

[Joyful]

Joyful-

When my university would call my parents during their various fund drives, my dad often told them that they lost him when they started hanging copper rain gutters and rain spouts on all of the new construction student apts and other buildings. My tuition at the time was about 25K/yr. My university was in a somewhat run-down city with a good bit of crime. Perhaps not the best use of resources, to put it mildly.

 

My guess is that they didn't give much thought to your dad's comment. Am I right?

 

We live in Philadelphia. U Penn's strategies over the past couple of decades has resulted in the gentrification of the surrounding neighborhoods. They have been contributing resources to a local elementary school which has added to the process. The school now services mainly children of scholars and professionals (as any good schools will drive up the housing market and attract those who can afford it). Quite a number of upscale retailers have cropped up on the streets surrounding campus.

[Joyful]

I wonder if it will just be that fewer and fewer people will be getting university degrees in the US? If that happens I guess that employers could import some people, but in general they are just going to have to accept applicants with different sorts of qualifications, and maybe look at doing more mentoring or on the job training in some cases.

 

********************

I think it could be really devastating for the universities though. They have too much infrastructure, there will be a ton of good scholars - the young ones mostly - that would have to look for another line of work. On the other hand, whatever comes out of it might have a real sense of purpose as an institution dedicated to the study of truth, and there are a lot of crummy scholars who could be gotten rid of as well.

 

 

I have read that many university and colleges are accepting more and more foreign students (particularly from China), who pay full tuition and are more than willing (and able) to pay for an opportunity to study in the US. Used to be that at many of the top US colleges and universities, there were quotas for the number of foreign students they would accept per class. That number has been trending upward.

 

So, given that the "market" is now global, it may be that the bubble may not be bursting any time soon...

[Luanne]

I just find it interesting that you don't want to save what would be a TON of money by having her go to a community college for two years because "she would miss out on the college experience". If that experience is anything like the college here (I live in a college town), I think it would be best missed.

 

That is all I have to say.

[Barbara H]

 

Have people discussed why the cost of college has skyrocketed (in relation to median income)?

 

We live in a city with 3 universities and many more in the surrounding suburbs. We have visited the 3 university campuses due to various community events. The physical facilities are amazing - from the new buildings to student gyms to cafes/cafeterias. I have read some articles here and there stating that some of the increased cost of college has resulted from facility upgrades by the various institutions. These upgrades were made by each institution in order to compete for students (and thus for the parent-dollar).

 

 

I understand what you are saying and it is hard not to see the nice gyms and think "aha, that's why it is so expensive." But, the research I've read attributes the rise in cost more to universities being greatly affected by two areas of expenditures that have risen much faster than inflation and those are energy and health care. Employee costs make up a big part of college budgets and as we all know health care costs have risen very rapidly. Energy costs tend to be high at colleges because there are so many older buildings. Some of the new buildings we see are actually much lower cost to operate because they are so much more energy efficient.

 

Many small private colleges have seen big reductions in their endowments with the recession. Many state schools have seen big reductions in government support as well.

[Joyful]

I understand what you are saying and it is hard not to see the nice gyms and think "aha, that's why it is so expensive." But, the research I've read attributes the rise in cost more to universities being greatly affected by two areas of expenditures that have risen much faster than inflation and those are energy and health care. Employee costs make up a big part of college budgets and as we all know health care costs have risen very rapidly. Energy costs tend to be high at colleges because there are so many older buildings. Some of the new buildings we see are actually much lower cost to operate because they are so much more energy efficient.

 

Many small private colleges have seen big reductions in their endowments with the recession. Many state schools have seen big reductions in government support as well.

 

That makes a lot of sense to me that health cost factor in a great deal.

 

Yes, in our state, the governor has made large cuts to support of higher education. But I think that college costs had been rising even before this.

[Sneezyone]

I have read that many university and colleges are accepting more and more foreign students (particularly from China), who pay full tuition and are more than willing (and able) to pay for an opportunity to study in the US. Used to be that at many of the top US colleges and universities, there were quotas for the number of foreign students they would accept per class. That number has been trending upward.

 

So, given that the "market" is now global, it may be that the bubble may not be bursting any time soon...

 

I made this point upthread too. The University of Washington made a big splash in the local papers last fall because of this.

 

I'd love it if one of my kids got into my alma mater but I know it will be very difficult to get in, let alone afford it. My school has also had *some* gentrifying affects on the local neighborhood but being very close to unpopular neighborhoods limits the impact. The primary impact of the university has been as an economic engine for the city. During the last riots, the univ. came out totally unscathed. Locals recognize that the school has been a good neighbor for decades. It's one of the things that attracted me to the school in the first place (I majored in public admin). There are longstanding relationships between the local community and the school (volunteerism, summer camps, set-asides for high-achieving local scholars, etc.).

[PiCO]

Right now, youth unemployment is so high in Europe that it's hard to see overseas young people (who need visas, support, accommodation, maybe language help) being offered jobs. I have heard of live-in tutoring jobs in Europe for native English speakers though.

 

Laura

 

Thanks for the info. That would also explain the large number of highly competent European young people I've noticed working at resorts in Colorado lately.

[lauracolumbus]

I understand what you are saying and it is hard not to see the nice gyms and think "aha, that's why it is so expensive." But, the research I've read attributes the rise in cost more to universities being greatly affected by two areas of expenditures that have risen much faster than inflation and those are energy and health care. Employee costs make up a big part of college budgets and as we all know health care costs have risen very rapidly. Energy costs tend to be high at colleges because there are so many older buildings. Some of the new buildings we see are actually much lower cost to operate because they are so much more energy efficient.

 

Many small private colleges have seen big reductions in their endowments with the recession. Many state schools have seen big reductions in government support as well.

 

Our flagship state university (Ohio State) has been on a major spending spree. It is extremely aggravating to see the amount of $$ being spent on 'amenities' that drive up tuition. They recently spent $109,000,000 on the library, $118,000,000 for the new student union, and about $140,000,000 on the new student recreation center. I can't imagine they're the exception even if that's not the norm. This doesn't account for the construction throughout the campus (granted it's a large campus).

 

Laura

[Barbara H]

Our flagship state university (Ohio State) has been on a major spending spree. It is extremely aggravating to see the amount of $$ being spent on 'amenities' that drive up tuition. They recently spent $109,000,000 on the library, $118,000,000 for the new student union, and about $140,000,000 on the new student recreation center. I can't imagine they're the exception even if that's not the norm. This doesn't account for the construction throughout the campus (granted it's a large campus).

 

 

 

Do you know if those projects were paid for by tuition? Often large university construction projects are funded by private donations and through special grant projects that fund construction, but can't be used for tuition.

[lauracolumbus]

Good point. I know some of those funds were private grants and that there are restrictions. But I can't imagine almost a half of billion dollars was grant money. And if it were, it could have gone to scholarships and tuition cuts rather than whirlpools and movie theaters and made a college degree more in reach for a lot of families.

 

Laura

[creekland]

Okay, while we're on the subject of college, is it still beneficial to attend a college that your parent(s) attended? DH and I are both Penn State alums, and I also am an alum of their honors program. I had assumed that that would look good if our children ever wanted to go there and join the honors program, but maybe not anymore? That has been one reason we've wanted to remain in PA, because of the benefits of in-state tuition plus honors scholarship, but maybe it doesn't matter nowadays?

 

I have no idea how true the rumors will end up being, but from the hearsay I've been hearing, there's a reasonable chance our 3 state related schools (Penn St, Pitt, and Temple) will go private... I don't know how that would affect legacies, but there's been a bit of speculation as to whether in state tuition breaks would continue.

 

And all of it is speculation at this point - along with the fact that the state has been drastically cutting financial support.

[ShadowProphet]

Anyone who tells their kids, "No I am not going to pay for your college, I have to pay for retirement" is being selfish and setting their children up for failure. Flat out, it is a parents responsibility to pay for most of college. When you take out college loans, part of it goes to the parents, and part of it goes to the kids, and the kids pay theirs back when they get out of school. That's the normal way to do it, and frankly I'm a little amazed that so many people here think it's acceptable to tell their kids they won't pay for it.