A vent about Girl Scouts/socialization/etc

[misidawnrn]

So, I caved to the pressure of "how are you going to socialize her!" and put my DD in Girls Scouts. The troop we are placed in is in one of the poorer school districts which is fine with me as the other district we got to choose from is 100% on the other end of the economy...Dr's, Lawyer's kids, etc.

We have only went to 2 meetings and I am already needing Xanax or something to get through (not really but just saying). The first meeting was LOUD and unruley. There is 25 kids in this troop as it is a Daisy and Brownie troop combined since the leaders of both troops left and now the coleader is in charge of them all. 75% of these girls have NO manners, NO respect for their leader, their peers, the volunteers, NOBODY! It is appalling, really. Before we got there, I told DD to be on her best behavior, not to be running around and screaming, and to listen to the leader. DD and 2 other little girls were sitting in the circle correctly, the other little girls were like wild savages! Rolling all over, butting in front of the other little girls to raise their hands and answer questions, etc. The leader seems very nice and patient (needs that!). She read about 3 pages of facts concerning GS cookies, how many pounds of peanut butter, how long they are cooked, now many boxes of XXX are made every day, etc. Then asked these girls who weren''t paying attention to answer "How many pounds of peanut butter are used every day?" Then she went around to all 25 girls, one at a time, and they ALL got every.single.question. wrong! DUH...their attentions span was about 2 seconds and she read for about 10 minutes.

 

THe girls have no responsibiltiy to clean up their mess, pick up their garbage, left their tables a disaster after their treats. UGH!

 

Last night...same story. We had 3 different stations to do stuff at.

I did the baby onsies station. I ironed on "Future Girl Scout" onto baby onsies and the girls got to paint them with Puff Paints. What a fantastic mess! Big globs of paint smeared all over shirts that we are supposed to be giving to newborns at the hospital for Girl Scout month. I am embarrassed to be giving these out (AND I work in OB at the only hospital in town:glare:). They were having a contest on who could get the most paint smeared on their shirts. I gently tried to explain that we were giving these to little babies and need to do our best job at making them pretty. Nobody was listening to me!!! So I said "Eyes and ears on me please." One little girl blatently wasn't looking at me so I said "XXX can you please look over here?" She came back with "I AM DOING THIS FIRST, I KNOW WHAT TO DO!" :confused::glare::confused: I gave up and let them make a mess. I will make sure I am the one to bring those ugly shirts to the hospital and throw them straight in the garbage.

 

One of the reasons I picked this troop is because the lady at the GS office told me how the leader really needed parent helpers and help with donations (like baby shirts). I thought I would do better with this troop vs. the troop where little girls get ponies for their birthday. I personally bought 15 shirts. I am mad that I feel like I am going to be throwing money away by buying "craft stuff" for this.

 

Another table had the girls cut out things from magazines that they thought would make a good girl scout. Like hugging a friend, etc. All of the magazine choices were things like ELLE, Cosmopolitan, etc. The girls were cutting out pictures of girls barely dressed hugging their hunky men....UGH!!!! They didn't have magazine choices that had "good girl scout character" stuff in them. OMG!

 

What did I get myself into?????? I am hoping that they will split the troop back into separate troops and maybe I could be the leader of one. I know these girls need positive influences, etc. It is hard to be a positive influence to 25 kids at a time.

 

The next time someone asks me how I am going to socialize my kids, I think I may just smack them upside the head!

 

Sorry about my big long vent. I am off to get more coffee now! and maybe a :chillpill:.

[tntgoodwin]

Maybe you would be better off with the group with Dr and Lawyers kids?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry you had a rough time. It is frustrating to see other kids that we feel aren't being raised as we would prefer them to be raised.

[frugalmama]

That's a big part of why we don't do GS with a troop - having seen how most of the ps kids behave around here I just wasn't willing to put up with it.

 

You can always do GS on your own through the Juliette program, and just participate in council level activities. Plenty of socialization options there without putting up with the troop issues.

[4kiddies]

In my opinion a girl scout troop is only as good as the leader in charge. I personally LOVE the troop my girls are in but I chose it based on the fact that I know the mother in charge very well and knew what to expect from her.

 

ETA: My girls actually go to the local PS for girl scouts and are the only homeschool kids, so I don't feel it a matter of PS kids vs homeschool kids, its how it is lead. The OP problem isn't the kids, its lack of leadership in the troop dealing with the unruly kids.

[treestarfae]

Ya it's why we're Juliettes. Let us know if you want to pen pal about badges and such. It's the same with rich kids too. Honestly society has turned into a bunch of unruly animals and it irritates me when people get on their wild boar to lecture me about social skills. Don't get me started on medicated people. Yuck, I think it's hilarious that I should have my kids deal with bad behavior from "community" people. Whatever.

[misidawnrn]

It is frustrating to see other kids that we feel aren't being raised as we would prefer them to be raised.

 

 

It is frustrating because I joined this to "socialize" with other kids and these aren't the kids I want my kids to "socialize" with! I also don't want to socialize her with the kids who get everything (I guess I have a preconceived notion of the kids at the "rich" school being snobby, snotty, spoiled etc. and the other troop is at the best school in town. I went to Jr. High with the kids from this elementary and they fit my description. I don't imagine its any better in the 2nd grade.)

 

Maybe we should just continue to live in our own little world...I like it better in here! :lol:

[momacacia]

Character and good child training are no respecter of socio-economic level.

 

The little girls who get ponies for birthdays MIGHT actually pay attention to a story and get some of the answers correct, or they might not. The educational level of their parents and the schools they likely afford to send their children to are statistically more likely to produce better students, by sheer force of parental expectation and educational resources. But, you could end up with really bad attitudes there, too. Might be worth looking into, though.

 

Homeschool Mom (who got a pony when she was 11 and whose mother would never have put up with the kind of behavior you encountered) to two children spawned from two attorneys ;)

Edited February 18, 2012 by momacacia

[Sugar Plum]

From my own experience--let me tell you that your experience likely has nothing to do with the socioeconomic status of the girls or their families. We left a troop that (no kidding) met in a *mansion* (we are not mansion people) due to all of the same behaviors you've described here. When we switched troops to a more middle class troop, guess what? Largely the same issues. I think much depends on the leader. The leader needs to set firm, clear expectations about behavior and then be consistent about enforcing them. 25 girls are too many to do that with in an effective way, IMO. At this point, dd9 goes to the meetings where there is a community service activity or a party, but otherwise only shows up to sell cookies (which she loves) and go to camp (which she does without her troop).

[Shannon in TN]

Your first meeting experience reminds me of dd's troop when they first started in 1st grade - running around acting like a bunch of hooligans - and this was with parents in the room who were socializing with each other!

 

Now it's much better and more controlled (they're 4th graders, now) although they do get rowdy on occasion and our leader will send out emails asking the moms to remind their daughters of proper girl scout behavior. Oh, and as far as the socio-economic spectrum, we'd probably fall in with the doctors, lawyers, mid-higher income bracket, so I'm not entirely sure you'd get a better behaved group of girls based on that.

 

But wow, what an experience for you! I'd be frustrated, too!

[KungFuPanda]

Maybe you would be better off with the group with Dr and Lawyers kids?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Sorry you had a rough time. It is frustrating to see other kids that we feel aren't being raised as we would prefer them to be raised.

 

:iagree: You might have been better off. Try not to judge people you don't know based on what you think their occupations might be. As a homeschooler, you may have far more in common with those educated types than the parents who let their kids go feral. Just because someone managed to make their small business a success does NOT mean their children are spoiled brats.

 

The group you attended was far too large and it seems like the leader was drowning. I appreciate her delimma, but it sounds like she was dealing with much worse than juggling two troops. Are there any co-op troops in your area? The accountability weeds out the drop-n-run types and makes for smaller, more successful troupes. Heck, if you can find 5 like-minded moms, preferably homeschoolers, you can have your own delightfully small troupe :D

[misidawnrn]

I know kids will be bad/good based on their parenting and upbringing. I don't mean to make it sound like only poor kids are bad. We grew up poor and we better behave in public or ELSE! My best friend grew up rich and was very naughty, whiney, throwing a fit in public, etc. I guess I have issues with their behavior, lack of control in the leader...never once did she say "sit up and listen", and the fact that society on a whole thinks that homeschooled kids don't socialize. (I also know that not all homeschooled kids act like perfect little angels in public.)

I am just frustrated about the whole darn thing I guess. I will plug away for awhile longer and see if I can help the situation. Maybe the leader isn't convincing enough to gain control of the situation. I have only been to 2 meetings. We will see. If nothing else, we will switch troops or do the Juliette thing (didn't know about that).

 

 

ETA: I guess I have to say that I, myself, don't feel comfortable hanging with the "richer" crowd. We are not poor by any stretch of the means but not "rich" either. Our bills are paid, we have nice things but I am not comfortable hobknobbing with those with Gucci purses, IYKWIM. I am a nurse, I work with doctors everyday. I can't join their conversations of their cruises, trips to Vegas, Europe, summer houses on the lake, etc. The doctors I work with also think homeschooling is crazy!

Edited February 17, 2012 by misidawnrn

[Jennifer3141]

Character and good child training are no respecter of socio-economic level.

 

The little girls who get ponies for birthdays MIGHT actually pay attention to a story and get some of the answers correct, or they might not. The educational level of their parents and the schools they likely afford to send their children to are statistically more likely to produce better students, by shear force of parental expectation and educational resources. But, you could end up with really bad attitudes there, too. Might be worth looking into, though.

 

Homeschool Mom (who got a pony when she was 11 and whose mother would never have put up with the kind of behavior you encountered) to two children spawned from two attorneys ;)

 

Thank you for saying this!! My kids are the children of a doctor but they don't get ponies for their birthdays. We're doing pot bellied pigs and chickens. :tongue_smilie:

 

But the attitude makes me laugh a little. I wouln't want MY kids to socialize with the OP because of her attitude.

[dangermom]

It sounds like the group is far too large. If it was two groups of 10-12 girls, you'd probably have a much easier time managing and getting some reasonable behavior. I don't see how anyone could manage a fancy craft project with that many kids.

[Catwoman]

Thank you for saying this!! My kids are the children of a doctor but they don't get ponies for their birthdays. We're doing pot bellied pigs and chickens. :tongue_smilie:

 

That's all well and good, but where do you buy the saddles for them? ;)

[butterflymommy]

If you want to keep doing GS I would try the other group, but as I'm sure many people here could tell you, being more monied does not necessarily make kids better behaved. I've seen some real horrors from rich families.

 

I think these things are the luck of the draw. We have recently put 4 girls back in CS (2 still HSing). Their last CS was full of kids who behaved atrociously. Violent fights, F bombs, N-word, nasty attitude toward any authority figure. This was a fairly impoverished crowd. Well their current CS is the same economic demographic but the kids are so much better! I haven't heard any F or N words and the kids are very friendly and sweet. So the other group might just be better "because," not because it has wealthy kids in it. But for heaven's sake don't worry about that nasty S word!!

[Catwoman]

It is frustrating because I joined this to "socialize" with other kids and these aren't the kids I want my kids to "socialize" with! I also don't want to socialize her with the kids who get everything (I guess I have a preconceived notion of the kids at the "rich" school being snobby, snotty, spoiled etc. and the other troop is at the best school in town. I went to Jr. High with the kids from this elementary and they fit my description. I don't imagine its any better in the 2nd grade.)

 

Why wouldn't you want your dd to socialize with all different kinds of kids, including the "rich kids who have everything?" :confused:

 

I think your preconceived notions are a little offensive -- I don't mean to sound nasty, but the assumption that because someone has more money or a more impressive-sounding resume, doesn't automatically mean that they are snobby or that their kids are going to be entitled little brats. I think many of us have faced that same kind of attitude in one direction or the other ("too rich" or "not rich enough,") and believe me, it's no fun when people pre-judge you based on the kind of car you drive or what kind of watch you're wearing, when all you want to do is find some nice friends for your children and yourself.

 

I know you don't mean anything against the "rich group," and that you don't hate them or even dislike them, but I really hope you'll try to get past the mindset that people are necessarily very different in character because of the amount of money in their bank accounts. Will some of the wealthy moms and kids be obnoxious and full of themselves? Sure they will. Absolutely. But so will some of the average or low-income moms. They can be just as arrogant and obnoxious as the wealthy moms.

 

Whatever you end up doing with Girl Scouts, I hope you're able to find a troop that works for you and your dd. I know how frustrating it is to find a good fit, and no matter what anyone says, it can be a lot harder for homeschooled kids to find opportunities to make new friends than it is for public schooled kids. (My ds and I are going through the same thing.) :grouphug:

[jenn-]

We just (as in yesterday) withdrew from our Cub Scout pack. This was one of the several reasons. I don't want my boys to be socialized to behave like the boys in his pack. They were wild. One of my breaking points was when they decided to bribe the boys into sitting down and listening by providing them with Skittles. I mean, don't you know feeding them pure sugar is the best way to keep them calm? After my well behaved boys (they look at the others like they are freaks) received 3 handfuls of Skittles for listening well, I finally stood up and said that was enough. My boys were not getting anything out of their meetings. It is not possible to learn when everyone around you is talking or touching everyone/thing.

[Renee in NC]

We just (as in yesterday) withdrew from our Cub Scout pack. This was one of the several reasons. I don't want my boys to be socialized to behave like the boys in his pack. They were wild. One of my breaking points was when they decided to bribe the boys into sitting down and listening by providing them with Skittles. I mean, don't you know feeding them pure sugar is the best way to keep them calm? After my well behaved boys (they look at the others like they are freaks) received 3 handfuls of Skittles for listening well, I finally stood up and said that was enough. My boys were not getting anything out of their meetings. It is not possible to learn when everyone around you is talking or touching everyone/thing.

 

My 10yo quit cub scouts because he couldn't stand the behavior of the scouts in his den. He has moved into Boy Scouts now, and the troop's leadership is much more strict regarding behavior.

 

It comes down to the leadership, the expectations, and the particular group of kids. The cub scout pack we are part of (a younger son is still there) is mostly middle to upper middle class. They are very badly behaved. I don't think it is necessarily socioeconomic level, but rather the culture of the families involved. My dc would NEVER get away with the behavior of these other boys, but their parents stand around and watch them "act like idiots" (in the words of my 10yo.)

[Jennifer3141]

That's all well and good, but where do you buy the saddles for them? ;)

 

We have a poor Amish family make custom saddles for us. That way, my "rich" kids can sneer at the poor folk when we pick up our stuff. :lol::lol::lol:

[Catwoman]

You ride them bareback. Or you put a rope around them and let them drag you (through the mud).

 

We have a poor Amish family make custom saddles for us. That way, my "rich" kids can sneer at the poor folk when we pick up our stuff. :lol::lol::lol:

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I learn something new every day on this forum.

 

Only 2:00pm, and already my work is done. :D

[G5052]

Leadership and expectations are everything.

 

We were involved in Awana for over a decade.

 

Group #1 was urban and many of the kids came from what I would call a disadvantaged background. We had problems here and there and several kids had to be kicked out of the group, but the overall environment and tone of the group was orderly. The couple in charge of the group have run it for some twenty years now and they always have almost more volunteers than they can use, and they even had some returning who were kids in the program.

 

Group #2 was semi-rural and in an area where most of the kids come from intact families who are "comfortable." Initially it was run a lot like #1, and we were thrilled to be a part of it. Then the couple that ran it moved, and a series of new people came in. It quickly went downhill. Discipline problems were not handled, the volunteers began to turn over, and when I said that we weren't coming back, no one asked why.

 

IMHO income isn't the issue at all.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Uhh . . . my kids' Cub Scout troop is a bunch of doctors' and lawyers' kids. My own dh is a lawyer :D!

 

You could do a search and see where I complain about the raging brats in my den and pack. I also wonder why my kids needs to be "socialized" by these hooligans. I'm a den leader, and I'm quitting at the end of this year. I've taken 2 years of this, and I can't take anymore.

[Impish]

I fail to see what socioeconomics has to do w/anything.

[Farrar]

Leadership and expectations are everything.

 

:iagree:

 

Reading a page of facts about cookies then demanding that the girls answer questions about them is probably the most dull activity I can imagine doing in Girl Scouts. Poor kids. Not every activity has to be full-on fun, but you have to give kids activities worth staying in line for and do stimulating worthwhile things. I've seen this dynamic in groups where there's sometimes behavior issues. The kids are rowdy, so the leaders drop their expectations of what the kids can handle and do things where they think they can control the crowd better - usually more boring things. But then the kids get bored and act out more, not less. So the leaders again drop the quality of the activities. And eventually everyone gives up and it's all a mess. :glare:

[cloversandlions]

That troop is much too large. Our local troop leaders keep the size of the troops to 10 girls, which is manageable. Twenty-five children is quite a lot of kids ~ isn't that why there's a sizable amount of time devoted to classroom management for teachers and teachers-in-training?

 

Good parenting occurs in all socioeconomic levels. So does the opposite.

[sassenach]

As I see it, you have 2 options.

 

1) Be the change you want to see. You could really step up and co-lead the troop. GS is the perfect place to teach manners. You could be a transforming element in this group.

 

2) You could switch troops. When we moved to our very affluent area, I was really worried about rich kid syndrome. I have been pleasantly surprised by how rare it is for that to be an issue. Perhaps your experience will be similar.

 

I could make an argument for both choices. In some areas of my life, I am a key volunteer. I go above and beyond, sacrificing many hours of blood, sweat and tears, because the cause is something I believe in. In other areas of my life I'm a minimum volunteer. I do whatever is required of me, but not much more. I do not have the capacity to be a key volunteer in everything we are involved in. I feel (mostly) no guilt about this.

 

However, if my kids were involved in something that was a negative element, I would have to either step up or step out.

[misidawnrn]

Nothing wrong with getting ponies and pigs. I don't think that is what the OP meant.

 

Nothing wrong with getting ponies (or pot bellied pigs for that matter). I just don't want DD to feel bad about NOT getting ponies. I try to make their life happy, they have lots of stuff. The ponies thing is being taken way out of proportion. I get along with people from all walks of life, rich, poor, in the middle. I am not saying only poor people have bad kids, only rich people have spoiled, snobby kids, and only homeschoolers have great kids.

 

I was just venting about a bad experience....

[higginszoo]

After trying several different troops, this is why my older daughter just went back to Juliettes. To be fair, only half of her last troop were like that. Dd came back from her last campout saying that she felt that she spent 2 weeks of her allowance (the fee for the camp) to babysit the whole time. The other half of the girls really are sweet, but they're mostly a year younger than dd and the maturity difference often shows. She wouldn't mind being around those younger girls so much if there were also older girls to offset it. Of course not being in the public school system, my service unit has been zero help for three years now in finding her an age-appropriate group.

 

I am the leader of a small homeschool troop for my younger daughter. I love that I get to set the standards, and the girls do follow them, and are really good girls, but an hour with 4 seven year olds still just wipes me out.

 

I've offered to let dd try to find other homeschooled Juliettes in the area and get together to do whatever they want (badge work, field trips, or just hanging out). She hasn't moved on it, and I don't have the energy to spare for it at the moment. It's harder now that the high school girls are on 2 different programs from the middle schoolers. I know of one girl in particular who would love to be in a group like that, but she would be using Senior, and next year, Ambassador materials because of her age ... in the old program, they could have worked on the same IPs together.

[misidawnrn]

As I see it, you have 2 options.

 

1) Be the change you want to see. You could really step up and co-lead the troop. GS is the perfect place to teach manners. You could be a transforming element in this group.

 

2) You could switch troops. When we moved to our very affluent area, I was really worried about rich kid syndrome. I have been pleasantly surprised by how rare it is for that to be an issue. Perhaps your experience will be similar.

 

I could make an argument for both choices. In some areas of my life, I am a key volunteer. I go above and beyond, sacrificing many hours of blood, sweat and tears, because the cause is something I believe in. In other areas of my life I'm a minimum volunteer. I do whatever is required of me, but not much more. I do not have the capacity to be a key volunteer in everything we are involved in. I feel (mostly) no guilt about this.

 

However, if my kids were involved in something that was a negative element, I would have to either step up or step out.

 

Thank you sincerely for this advice!!!!!

 

I didn't mean to make this about money. I was trying to state that I picked the group that meets at the "poorer" school because I thought they needed help, parent help, help with crafts, etc. I didn't pick the "richer" school because I didn't think we would fit in there. Nothing against or for either group but I thought I would make a bigger difference in the 1st group.

 

I didn't mean to make the impression that I thought the behavior of the kids was because they were at the "poorer" school and thus have no discipline, manners, etc. I was merely pointing out that they don't have any, no matter what school they go to. It is too large of a group, IMO.

 

I am sorry if I offended anyone, rich or poor. That was not my intention at all. I guess I was just typing out my thoughts to other moms...just venting. If anyone took what I said wrongly, I apologize. I am WAY from perfect. I guess I am sad that I tried to find someplace for my child to socialize and it is a flop so far.

 

UGH!

[Mom0012]

In my opinion a girl scout troop is only as good as the leader in charge. I personally LOVE the troop my girls are in but I chose it based on the fact that I know the mother in charge very well and knew what to expect from her.

 

ETA: My girls actually go to the local PS for girl scouts and are the only homeschool kids, so I don't feel it a matter of PS kids vs homeschool kids, its how it is lead. The OP problem isn't the kids, its lack of leadership in the troop dealing with the unruly kids.

 

I don't know. My daughter has a wonderful leader. Probably the best leader in the County, but there are a few girls in the group with serious behavioral issues and they really ruin the group, IMO.

 

Lisa

[PhotoGal]

OP, I understand what you are saying. You had two troops to choose from. The problem with the first is that there aren't enough parents to help and things are out of control. The (potential) problem with the second is that you feel you wouldn't feel comfortable.

 

My kids were in private school for awhile and it can be difficult if you aren't in the same financial situation as other parents. We had to turn down a lot of invitations (ski trips, etc) and that was awkward. The kids saw the big houses, pools, etc. They weren't really old enough to understand it all, but it can be unfortable. I imagine it would be worse as kids get older and become interested in brand names, etc.

 

Have you considered starting your own troop? Maybe of homeschoolers? I know it is a lot of work, but it sounds like sticking it out with this huge troop would be a lot of work anyway. Otherwise, I would work really hard to find other parents to help so you could break the group up into smaller groups of 5 or 6 kids. That would help a lot.

[misidawnrn]

OP, I understand what you are saying. You had two troops to choose from. The problem with the first is that there aren't enough parents to help and things are out of control. The (potential) problem with the second is that you feel you wouldn't feel comfortable.

 

My kids were in private school for awhile and it can be difficult if you aren't in the same financial situation as other parents. We had to turn down a lot of invitations (ski trips, etc) and that was awkward. The kids saw the big houses, pools, etc. They weren't really old enough to understand it all, but it can be unfortable. I imagine it would be worse as kids get older and become interested in brand names, etc.

 

Have you considered starting your own troop? Maybe of homeschoolers? I know it is a lot of work, but it sounds like sticking it out with this huge troop would be a lot of work anyway. Otherwise, I would work really hard to find other parents to help so you could break the group up into smaller groups of 5 or 6 kids. That would help a lot.

 

I only know of a few other homeschooling parents and none that well, only from swim lessons, one from my work and she has teen boys, and another ex co-worker that has young boys. Thank you for your kind words of understanding. I don't want DD to feel bad that she got homemade stuff for Christmas vs. an IPad or what ever. I also would find myself declining the expensive stuff like ski trips, etc. We could afford some stuff but I couldn't/wouldn't want to feel like I have to compete. I was beginning to feel like crap on toast for even complaining about my bad experience and my thoughts/feelings.

[ravinlunachick]

Sounds like you need a public school teacher for a leader! :p

 

Seriously, there is something to be said for having the person in charge be good at crowd control and behavior management. Some people just don't have that ability, even when they can handle their own kids just fine. I agree with others who say it's not necessarily a socioeconomic thing; I've seen plenty of ill-behaved kids who are well-off. Case in point? Our own troop, which includes a girl who whines and complains about everything. I've even had to listen to her gripe about how much she just hated the week long trip her family took to London a few months ago. Wah, wah, kid. Cry me a river. LOL *

 

When dd and I arrived at her GS meeting last night, the children--including Junior Girl Scouts-- were JUMPING ON TABLES!! Oh. My!! I could not believe my eyes! The poor leader in charge is so soft spoken (her daughter is the type to obediently do whatever you say--no need for a "Mama voice") and although she was saying, "Y'all get down, sit down and behave! Inside voices!" the girls just were not listening.

 

She eventually got them over to the chairs and they proceeded to just talk right over the top of her when she started the pledge! It was unbelievable! One girl blatantly refused to get up and lead the Promise, so the leader asked my dd to do it. When dd started to talk, 2 of the other girls started shrieking and yelling to try to be faster than her. I've honestly never seen anything like it. I was so angry at them; it's not normally like that. When the leader gave up and told the 3 Brownies to come with me for our activity, the worst behaved of the bunch started up again. I looked at her and said, "Excuse ME. If you want to participate in our activity, you can cut that out right now. You are being EXTREMELY disrepectful, and I won't tolerate it. If you yell one more time, or talk while I'm talking, you can go sit over there by yourself until your mom gets here to pick you up." That did it. If they hadn't calmed down, I would have had no qualms about walking out. That's certainly not why I pay dues and give up my family time to take dd to Scouts.

 

 

*note: I did not say that out loud, although I did think it.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Sadly our experience in Cubs/Daisies/Brownies/4-H/sports has been that basic attentiveness and manners are hard to come by. I actually had a coach comment how unusual my son was, and he is NOT a model of attentiveness in my book.

[jennsmile]

It sounds like they need a leader that can engage this kids. I worked at cub camp last summer with my child's pack and I was amazed a the lack of leadership shown by the other leaders. I could easily come up with something to keep their attention in a down moment while the other leaders just let them run or goof off.

 

You can either leave and try the other troop or Juilettes or be the change needed. I don't know your circumstances but you might surprise yourself. Does the district offer training like they do in cubscouts? I know when I was a cadet I went to a training and learned skills to help with younger scouts.

 

I would also try to get 2 more volunteer parents even if they rotate out each week. So every 12 weeks each parent gets a turn or something.

[Mommy22alyns]

I would switch troops. NOT to say the other one would be automatically better (it may indeed be ps vs. hs) but at least it's worth a shot. You can always leave that one if need be.

 

My girls are in AHG and it's an all homeschooled troop. The girls are well behaved and hard working.

[sassenach]

Thank you sincerely for this advice!!!!!

 

I didn't mean to make this about money. I was trying to state that I picked the group that meets at the "poorer" school because I thought they needed help, parent help, help with crafts, etc. I didn't pick the "richer" school because I didn't think we would fit in there. Nothing against or for either group but I thought I would make a bigger difference in the 1st group.

 

I didn't mean to make the impression that I thought the behavior of the kids was because they were at the "poorer" school and thus have no discipline, manners, etc. I was merely pointing out that they don't have any, no matter what school they go to. It is too large of a group, IMO.

 

I am sorry if I offended anyone, rich or poor. That was not my intention at all. I guess I was just typing out my thoughts to other moms...just venting. If anyone took what I said wrongly, I apologize. I am WAY from perfect. I guess I am sad that I tried to find someplace for my child to socialize and it is a flop so far.

 

UGH!

 

I would like to point out that it is February and people get their panties in a big ol' wad this time of year. I don't think you need to defend yourself further. It's overreaction central around here.

[misidawnrn]

I would like to point out that it is February and people get their panties in a big ol' wad this time of year. I don't think you need to defend yourself further. It's overreaction central around here.

hahaha, well I will be the first to pull my jumbled panties out of my arse and move on...hehehehe, thanks for that, I laughed out loud!

[Catwoman]

I would like to point out that it is February and people get their panties in a big ol' wad this time of year. I don't think you need to defend yourself further. It's overreaction central around here.

 

I'm not sure anyone has gotten "their panties in a big ol' wad," nor has it seemed like anyone was overreacting to the OP's situation. I think she explained her intentions in later posts (and I absolutely agree with you that she doesn't need to defend herself further,) but early in the thread, she said something which I think a few of us found a bit offensive:

 

I also don't want to socialize her with the kids who get everything (I guess I have a preconceived notion of the kids at the "rich" school being snobby, snotty, spoiled etc. and the other troop is at the best school in town. I went to Jr. High with the kids from this elementary and they fit my description. I don't imagine its any better in the 2nd grade.)

 

She appeared to be pre-judging the "rich" group as snobby, spoiled, and snotty based on their socio-economic status, without having even met any of the members, and that is no less discriminatory than if she'd said she didn't want her dd associating with the "poorer" kids because they will all grow up to be criminals.

 

I thought she did a good job in her subsequent posts, of explaining what she really meant, and that she posted as she did because she's upset and frustrated and just needed to vent -- and I think most of us can relate to her feelings, now that she has clarified them for us. She wants her dd to make some nice friends, and who among us doesn't want that for our own dc? If she is concerned that being a part of the "rich" kids' troop will somehow make her dd feel dissatisfied or unhappy with getting less expensive gifts, there's no reason to apologize for that, either. It's a legitimate concern in her mind, so it's an important consideration when she chooses a Girl Scout troop for her dd.

 

I really hope I didn't offend the OP with my post, but I was responding to the information I had at the time. Now that she has posted more information to this thread, I think I have a much better idea of the real problems that she is facing.

[Education Explorers]

THe girls have no responsibiltiy to clean up their mess, pick up their garbage, left their tables a disaster after their treats. UGH!

 

Last night...same story. We had 3 different stations to do stuff at.

I did the baby onsies station. I ironed on "Future Girl Scout" onto baby onsies and the girls got to paint them with Puff Paints. What a fantastic mess! Big globs of paint smeared all over shirts that we are supposed to be giving to newborns at the hospital for Girl Scout month. I am embarrassed to be giving these out (AND I work in OB at the only hospital in town:glare:). They were having a contest on who could get the most paint smeared on their shirts. I gently tried to explain that we were giving these to little babies and need to do our best job at making them pretty. Nobody was listening to me!!! So I said "Eyes and ears on me please." One little girl blatently wasn't looking at me so I said "XXX can you please look over here?" She came back with "I AM DOING THIS FIRST, I KNOW WHAT TO DO!" :confused::glare::confused: I gave up and let them make a mess.

 

I believe that you should step up and be a co-leader to this troop or form your own. I became a GS leader several years ago when my daughter's 2nd grade troop had 24 girls. Brownies are wild without structure, control and discipline. It is the nature of the age group (regardless of economic status). A group of 24 in all practicality needs a minimum of 3-4 leaders so that you can work in small groups on elements of Try Its etc and then rotate through. If the groups are too big, chaos will reign!

 

Your comment made me think of the movie Kindergarten Cop with Arnold Schwarzenegger..."Phoebe: [advising Kimble on how to be a teacher] Look, you've got to treat this like any other police situation. You walk into it showing fear, you're dead. And those kids know you're scared.

Detective John Kimble: [looks at her a moment then nods] No fear.

Phoebe: No fear. "

 

Don't ever let a kid get away with obnoxious behavior like that little girl did with you! Draw a line in the sand! GS is about promoting the proper values of respect, leadership, independence etc. etc. Her attitude was WAY out of line. If you give in, mob mentality takes over and then the inmates are running the asylum.

 

I have truly enjoyed watching my GS grow and mature and take on new responsibilities. I think you would really enjoy being a leader. HS families are ideal for it because we are already "take charge" kind of folk or else our kids would be sitting in school like everybody else's. Go for it! But the key is structure, control and discipline! Can't behave? Can't stay!

[m0mmaBuck]

My experience in scouting is that how the kids behave has to do with a combination of how the leaders handle them (what behavior is tolerated, what types of activities they have to offer, etc) and how they were raised (what their parents tolerate, how the parents interact with their kids during the meetings, etc.). DS's Cub Scout Pack has kids from a variety of socioeconomic backgrounds, educational backgrounds, and many with special needs, and the boys for the most part listen well, participate, and are a joy. DD's AHG troop has the same breakdown of backgrounds in play but less involved parents and leaders who do not seem to have control of the group.... It feels like a pack of wild animals and I really don't enjoy being there. We are looking at either taking over the leadership of the Troop next year or leaving altogether because it is not enjoyable for any of us as it is now.

 

Good luck finding something that work.

[kalanamak]

Maybe you would be better off with the group with Dr and Lawyers kids?

 

 

When I was much younger I went to the Brooklyn Botanical garden. I saw two children's groups. One was running WILD, tracking bark all over by cutting through where no one should walk, screaming, shoving, etc. Two leaders for 30 kids walking blindly on like they weren't with them. One 8 year old cussed me out for being in the way.

 

The next group was an old lady, in the old fashioned term, well dressed with 8 alert kids patiently listening to the difference between convergent and divergent evolution.

 

The two groups were cut 100% on racial lines. It was very sad.

[kalanamak]

 

She appeared to be pre-judging the "rich" group as snobby, spoiled, and snotty based on their socio-economic status

 

Sadly, this is what I saw growing up, and what I see in the 20K/year for K school near us. Cell phones and 3D-DSs by 7, digital cameras for 5th birthday, etc. Stepford Wife intake of breath and then ignore after they find out I WORK. Ugh. What kind of loser woman couldn't land a doctor?

 

We DO "pre-judge" every time we decide anything but by a flip of a coin. Looking at films? I "pre-judge" an "action" film as boring. I pre-judge a B&W film as more likely to interest me. We "pre-judge" all the time. Like most things in life, I wish people were straightforward about things. It is HUMAN to associate new situations with what we have experienced in the past. Thus, when I see "rich" people, I am used to being shunned. I'd rather protect my son from that until he is older.

 

I, too, would have picked the non-rich group, but I would probably give it a switch if I were confronted with feral children. (Or bag out entirely.)

[Scuff]

It's the leadeship. We live in a poor area. Ds was the only white boy in his pack. But his leader had those boys in line. It was a great pack.

[angela in ohio]

I try to make their life happy, they have lots of stuff.

 

You will determine whether your dc are happy with their life, not who they see around them. They will pick up your assumptions about other people, rich or poor, and judge others and themselves by those. Just keeping them away from children with more money won't help. I would at least try the other group. You can't really know if either group will be well-run without going to see for yourself, as you found out about the one already.

 

Sounds like you need a public school teacher for a leader! :p

 

It actually sounded like the leader was a PS teacher. She was lecturing to the girls classroom-style.

 

OP, there are so many problems:

The group is too large.

The activities were not age-appropriate or engaging.

No discipline.

And so on...

 

I would speak with the leader and see if she is frustrated and wants help to make changes. If not, I would move on. But it would be great if the two of you could turn things around for the sake of the other girls. Either way, I would visit the other group to see if it is better first.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

It's the leadeship. We live in a poor area. Ds was the only white boy in his pack. But his leader had those boys in line. It was a great pack.

 

What?

[sahm99]

It's the leadeship. We live in a poor area. Ds was the only white boy in his pack. But his leader had those boys in line. It was a great pack.

 

Now, THAT must have been a heck of a leader! WOW!!!

Edited February 19, 2012 by sahm99

[kalanamak]

You will determine whether your dc are happy with their life, not who they see around them. They will pick up your assumptions about other people, rich or poor, and judge others and themselves by those. Just keeping them away from children with more money won't help.

 

Actually, there is a lot of genetic influence on happiness. I happen to know a happiness expert, a rather droll Virginian.

 

My son is NOT happy being around misbehaving kids. Chaos baffles him, but at the same time he is jealous in spite of himself around kids with all the electronics. He knows why we don't do all that cell phone and hand held entertainment things, but he is a kid, and they are such shiny toys.

 

I grew up with snobs. I was belittled and made fun of for my simple JC Penny clothes. I was called Pig Farmer's Daughter (my father was a college professor, but were into a simple lifestyle). One of the reasons I homeschool is because it took me YEARS of being out in the normal world to think I could speak up and not be belittled. My mother saw the nastiness (they mocked her, too). But who homeschooled in 1964? The only private school in the whole town was for Catholics.

 

I can hold my own without it ruining my day with snobs now. But I was a kid, and these kids had much bigger armaments than I did. I didn't WANT to attack or belittle, I just wanted them to stop. I know my son will meet up with this eventually, but I'd like him to do it after the little monsters grow up a little. Of the snotty kids I grew up with, about half turned into people with manners. I met some of the them in later years, and they could barely look me in the eye. Sure they remembered, but they'd grown some sense about treating people normally.

 

BTW, I have met the "super rich" through relatives. I've been treated with kind dignity. I'm talking about the "big fish in a little pond" kids. In my hometown, it was doctor's kids, insurance bigwig kids, college football coach kids, etc. All into conspicuous consumption, and very aware of the price tag your clothes and car came with. People, my mother said years later, with nothing going for them but their money. I wish I could have understood that when I was 10, when the shine on my happiness and self confidence faded as these kids made barfing noises if I got near them in the lunch line.

[Lisbeth]

Maybe you would be better off with the group with Dr and Lawyers kids?

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

.

:iagree:

[Scuff]

What?

 

What's confusing? They had very well run meetings. I was glad ds was a patt of it. All kids usually do well with proper leadership and clear expectations.