Kay in Cal Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080612/ap_on_re_us/drunken_driving_hoax;_ylt=AobUjy0eGfdof_4Xx_1fqOus0NUE My favorite quote was: "We want them to be traumatized". :banghead: Yuck!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I don't know if I completely disagree with it. :lurk5::001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof2kids Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Psychological abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 You want to see a momma come unglued? Do that to my kid. Holey-moley, I would be a thorn in someone's side for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Really? Have you lost someone close to you suddenly? Can you imagine if in the midst of those intense early stages of grieving (maybe a few hours), they popped up and informed you it was all just to teach you the dangers of *insert dangerous item here*. It's hard enough to tell families that a loved one has died--something I have indeed had to do in real life. I've looked into thier eyes when you tell them thier son/daughter/husband/wife is gone. Yes, it is "only" thier friend in this case, but that's beyond the pale. I can't imagine lying to someone about that. Faking a death as a "life lesson" takes a special kind of sadistic cruelty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Besides the actual trauma of hearing of the death of a friend or classmate, what makes it okay to lie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 That is just sickening. I remember hearing a story a year or so ago about a junior high or elementary school that decided to tell the kids a real armed gunman was in the halls to make them see why a lockdown was important. Those kids were so traumatized, thinking they were all going to die only to learn later it was a hoax to teach a lesson. Seriously adults have no business lieing to kids about such traumatic things to teach a life lesson. There are other ways. Out here there is a program called the P.A.R.T.Y. program run through the hospital. I stands for preventing alcohol and risk related trauma in youth. The kids go through sessions that show images of car wrecks, have the kids imobalized in different ways to show loss of limb as opposed to life due to these choices etc. It is highly successful, I went through it as a teen, I also volunteered at it until the added the image of a car wreck that killed one of my classmates and hurt 4 others. There is much better ways to teach teens these valuable lessons without traumatizing them in this manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Yeah, I think it's really unfair to actually make someone believe that a person close to them has died, and then pop out with "Nope, we were only joking!" If that happened to me as a teen, I'd be so furious with the school--I would certainly not be inclined to absorb any lessons, except for the one that teachers and school administrators are jerks who like to torment kids for their own amusement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Really? Have you lost someone close to you suddenly? Can you imagine if in the midst of those intense early stages of grieving (maybe a few hours), they popped up and informed you it was all just to teach you the dangers of *insert dangerous item here*. It's hard enough to tell families that a loved one has died--something I have indeed had to do in real life. I've looked into thier eyes when you tell them thier son/daughter/husband/wife is gone. Yes, it is "only" thier friend in this case, but that's beyond the pale. I can't imagine lying to someone about that. Faking a death as a "life lesson" takes a special kind of masochistic cruelty. This seems a bit - um, angry simply because I don't share your outrage over what this school orchestrated. Drunk driving causes the very grief you are so hurt from. I *get* the passion behind trying to get (invincible) kids to understand that. Drunk driving is masochistic cruelty. Look, I'm not saying the scared straight idea in this regard was stellar. I'm just saying I don't think it was as outrageous as you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Truly unbelieveable. It is so W.R.O.N. G. Morally wrong to lie. Morally wrong to inflict emotional trauma to manipulate behavior or beliefs. Would it even be effective? Would the people affected be the ones who might be tempted to drive drunk? Would the manipulative behavior of adults actually callous teens to the message? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Well, I'm not "angry"... not at you in the least! Sorry if I seem passionate about it, but I honestly think that anyone who has had experience with informing people of death (or being informed themselves) would NOT think this was a good idea. There are much better ways to teach about drunk driving, and frankly, without strong parental involvement I don't think any sort of "shock" program is going to make any sort of lasting impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli in TN Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 This seems a bit - um, angry simply because I don't share your outrage over what this school orchestrated. Drunk driving causes the very grief you are so hurt from. I *get* the passion behind trying to get (invincible) kids to understand that. Drunk driving is masochistic cruelty. Look, I'm not saying the scared straight idea in this regard was stellar. I'm just saying I don't think it was as outrageous as you do. I don't see the anger Joanne. I see that she passionately disagrees with playing on the emotions of children, but I hardly see anger. Given what she probably has to deal with in her job from time to time I can see why she would see these shenanigans as somewhat twisted. I see it as twisted, too. Does Kay even get angry? I don't think I have ever seen Kay be angry on here. I have had temper tantrums on here, but I don't think Kay has. Kay, inquiring minds want to know, do you ever get angry?:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Besides the actual trauma of hearing of the death of a friend or classmate, what makes it okay to lie? Precisely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglin'5 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I would be one angry mama bear. And I am generally not a mama bear, IYKWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivetails Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Horrible HORRIBLE idea. :mad: There are much better ways to get the message across - just recently here they did a "mock crash" thing over at the high school (dd11 and I went over to watch) where they had two 'crashed' cars with students in them (students from the drama club) as the victims and actual paramedics & police and such doing everything that would be done in the event of a true drunk driving crash --- the 'driver' was taken away in cuffs, others were removed on stretchers (jaws of life were used and all that) and the final student was removed and taken away in a body bag (as she was 'dead') ....it was a well done demonstration, overall. edited to add that the staff and students were *all* aware that this was not real - it was even written about in the local paper ahead of time so as not to worry anyone who saw it going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Lying to kids is a sure way to lose their trust. And I seriously doubt whether it would be effective in reducing drunk driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfside Academy Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Wow...I was a Deputy Coroner in my other life and actually did "mock" drunk driving scenarios at high schools. There would be fake accident scienes and I would make "mock" death notifications but we never blindsided kids like this. They always knew it was a dramatization. They're lucky someone didn't go ballistic and get hurt. Now, I live right next to this town and knowing the school district like I do, I'm not surprised they would pull a stunt like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Well, I'm not "angry"... not at you in the least! Sorry if I seem passionate about it, but I honestly think that anyone who has had experience with informing people of death (or being informed themselves) would NOT think this was a good idea. OK. I'm sorry that I read into your response to me. To answer your question, I have had to tell someone I love of his brother's death and, more recently, my estranged sister about the death of our mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Wow! Two teenagers were killed in our town last week and the outpouring of grief among their schoolmates has been painful to watch. To let kids believe that so many of their friends had been killed just to play with their emotions is cruel. There's plenty of real grief in the world, there's no need to add extra trauma to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristangrace Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 If the educators in this scenario can't drive home an important point without manipulating their students' emotions and/or deceiving them, they really ought to consider working in a different field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpe Diem Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I would be angry if this was done to my kids. You don't mess with people's minds like that. I remember hearing the story about the fake gunman. You would think that people would learn a lesson from reading about others' poor choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourmother Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 This seems like a bad idea to me. I'm not opposed to "scared straight" programs, but I think this one shows poor judgment on the behalf of the adults involved. If you want to show the results of drunk driving, take the kids to the county morgue, show them videos of autopsies, put a totaled car on the front lawn, etc. But don't cry wolf. How are these students going to trust these administrators and teachers when (God forbid) there is a real crisis. And another thing... Any child who orchestrates this kind of prank would surely be punished for it. Adults are supposed to know better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in VA Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I would have gotten drunk as soon as I had gotten home from school. I bet a few of those students did, too. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialClassical Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 But it was true. It was one of the worst days of my young life. Our friend/classmate that died was loved by all and the grief was immediate and very real. What a painful time. I cannot fathom putting someone else through what we went through that day. Our school staff was sensitive and handled it so well, even while they grieved. The administration that approved the scare tactics of this stunt ought to be fired. No matter how jaded they believe the students to be, they are human beings, with real feelings. And they love their friends deeply. This just makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iquilt Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 That is just wrong; how could adults lie like that to the kids who trust them? Now where is the trust, and will they ever believe anything from another adult in that school? There is a reason it is a sin to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 But it was true. It was one of the worst days of my young life. Our friend/classmate that died was loved by all and the grief was immediate and very real. What a painful time. I cannot fathom putting someone else through what we went through that day. Yeah, that's my issue too. In my freshman year of high school we lost 2 students in an alcohol related car crash and when I was a junior we lost another student. There is no way that something like that would've been acceptable in my school because the memories were all too real for us. And I'm sad to say that even that tragic reality wasn't enough to keep my classmates from drinking and driving. There were still kids who spent their weekends hanging around a rock quarry drinking, and then they drove home. It's actually surprising that more of us didn't die. Oh man, the stories that I could tell...but I don't feel like it. And I was a "good girl", meaning that I didn't even do a lot of hanging out and partying but I still have stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ticklbee Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The problem with this is that it doesn't really change that "it can't happen to me" attitude many, many young people seem to have. They feel like nothing will happen to them...it always happens to someone else. I can't see that this stunt would really reach their hearts. Really, this kind of thing should be taught in the home...but if parents are setting bad examples by drinking until they are drunk (I'm thinking of my neighbor in this instance) then really the children are not going to think drinking until you're drunk is really a big deal. And a stunt like this really won't change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 "Hey, I know! Let's combine breathtaking cruelty with the unlmited potential for dangerous backlash! The best part? We have NO IDEA if it will be effective in any manner." Someone not only suggested this, but actually got dozens of teachers, counselors, police officers, students and parents to go along with it? (I'm assuming the parents of the 'dead' children were informed. Dear God, I hope so.) What's in the water up there? This wasn't a case of a single person making a bad decision, or telling an on-the-spot lie. This was a carefully planned hoax by people in authority, over those in a dependent position. I wonder if this school has a zero tolerance policy for lying and cheating? I wonder if the folks who think this isn't an awful thing to do would think the same if it were done to adults instead of teenagers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisperlily Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 They did this once when I was in high school. It was very powerful, and it really did make an impression. They didn't let the "fake news" stand as truth for an entire day, but they did let it linger for the entire class period. At the end of the class period, (an hour?) they let everyone know that it was a dramatization, and the student who had "died" was brought to the classroom wearing all black, with their face painted white. Those students, one from every homeroom class, attended school as usual, only they didn't speak to anyone, or respond in any way other than being a "present" reminder of how much they would be missed. I don't think it's horrible, although I don't think it should be carried through a whole day, as minds do tend to move beyond the initial shock into a deeper kind of grief rather quickly. Although I didn't drink, I know of several planned alcohol-laden graduation parties that suddenly, at the agreement of the hosts and attendees, became non-alcoholic. It's possible that it saved a life that very night, we'll never know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 ((Joanne)) Oh... I'm sorry. I do remember about your mom and your sister. How is she doing? I've been blessed that I've never lost a close loved one yet, but I have been told my dh was going to die (although he didn't). All the people I've ever had to tell were church members or strangers when I was a hospital chaplain. It's just hard for me to imagine... Anyhow, again, wasn't meaning to sound short with you. Sorry if I did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Kay, inquiring minds want to know, do you ever get angry?:001_smile: Yes. I like to call it "righteous indignation", though... makes it seem so much more meaningful... :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emzhengjiu Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Does the end justify the means? My answer is an strong no it does not. A friend's teenage daughter has been diagnosed with PTSD. If this type of deception were perpetrated on her, she would very likely suffer serious and long lasting emotional trauma. The administrators and teachers can't possibly know the emotional makeup of each student or the problems they may have. Nor can they with any certainty know if a student has experienced the death of a loved one recently. If someone had done this to me soon after my only brother died unexpectedly, I believe I would have gone into shock. Will the school system take responsibilty for any emotional fallout from their actions? Most likely not; it will be left to the families. Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancypants Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Awful. It's outrageously stupid. It's okay to make up an enormous and devastating lie apparently, as long as it "teaches a lesson." :banghead: How insulting to those kids. How very insulting... not to mention heartless and cruel. My brother and SIL and 1 day old baby nephew were sideswiped by a drunk driver. Fortunately they all survived (though my brother died a few years later from other causes). Even so, there are much better ways of teaching kids about drunk driving than by traumatizing them and lying to them just to send a message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Well, I can't say I agree with what the school did. I think that was a bit much. As for Kay's response to you, Joanne, I didn't find it 'angry' at all. She did ask some valid questions and had some valid points. As did you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I'm wondering...where is the outrage from the parents? The article said no backlash?!?!?! I'd be all over that phone, in the office, writing an editorial, blogging, calling the news station. I have also lost friends in high school related to drunk driving and let me tell you, that experiment is messed up. As a student, my trust would be gone and that would have broken my heart. Added to the list of why I'm thankful to home school.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 so these children might not be able to read above a fifth grade level when they graduate from high school, or find their own state capitol on a map, or balance their checkbooks, but they'll know the dangers of drinking and driving (as if they couldn't possibly know this any other way). This is not the school's job. What a time sucking exercise.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 "Hey, I know! Let's combine breathtaking cruelty with the unlmited potential for dangerous backlash! The best part? We have NO IDEA if it will be effective in any manner." Someone not only suggested this, but actually got dozens of teachers, counselors, police officers, students and parents to go along with it? (I'm assuming the parents of the 'dead' children were informed. Dear God, I hope so.) What's in the water up there? This wasn't a case of a single person making a bad decision, or telling an on-the-spot lie. This was a carefully planned hoax by people in authority, over those in a dependent position. I wonder if this school has a zero tolerance policy for lying and cheating? I wonder if the folks who think this isn't an awful thing to do would think the same if it were done to adults instead of teenagers? Well said. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I can not even begin to imagine. I hope that there will be serious repercussions for the school on this one. :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoSylvia Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 ... don't cry wolf. How are these students going to trust these administrators and teachers when (God forbid) there is a real crisis. This is an excellent point. What if down the road there is a gunman in their school. I can picture the disbelieving response of those kids and the frantic teachers trying to tell them, "No, this time I really mean it." Didn't anyone think about the consequences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 That makes me want to throw up. That is just awful!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I think there are other ways (I won't necessarily claim they're better) to reach out to students about the dangers of DUI/DWI. In the county I work for, we (EMS, PD, FD, coroner, air medical) put on a "Shattered Dreams" program for various high schools during prom season. Several students are moulaged, actual wrecked cars are placed on the school grounds, the senior class is brought out into the parking lot, and the scenario is run just as if a wreck happened and 911 was called (in fact, our radio gurus somehow manage to patch the radio traffic through the intercom system so the students can actually hear us as we run the call). There are always at least 2 "dead" students, several "critically injured" students, and a student who is "arrested" for drunk driving. This program is an obvious dramatization; no deception is involved. The "dead" students (and they're generally regarded to be the popular kids) return to class dressed in black with white make-up on and have agreed not to interact with anyone the rest of the school day. As someone who deals with this on an all too frequent basis (although I don't usually have to tell family), I think the DUI/DWI problem does need to be addressed and forcefully. I don't think, however, deception is the way to handle it. My personal opinion is that before obtaining their driver's licenses teenagers should be required to spend a Friday or Saturday night at a major trauma center shadowing a nurse or doc so they can see first hand all the effects of too much alcohol/drugs. I know that's probably not a popular opinion, though.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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