Samiam Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ugh, I am frustrated and can't understand this logic at all. I created a field trip to a local grocery store for K5-3rd graders. They'll talk about food nutrition, making good food choices, etc. Having been on this type of trip before, I know they'll use things like "green means go, green food is good"....simple concepts for K5-3rd grade children. So a mom replies "I don't believe in grade limits, so I am signing up my 6th grader". Um, really??? I mean, I fully expect, and even said it, that siblings would come along and are welcome (having a range of ages myself, I know how hard it is when you have siblings out of the age range). But this is not a sibling, this is just a single child. I read her tone, as well, snarky....and that could just be me reading into it. But why would your 6th grader want to come on a field trip geared for K5-3rd? I replied that "it was fine, but since discussion on the field trip will be geared for K5-3rd, why not create another field trip for upper elementary so the discussion would be of more interest to your child?" And it's not because friends of the child's, from other families, are coming, as she was actually the 2nd one to sign up and the 1st family only has children in the preferred age range. And this is the kind of crap that made me walk away from scheduling field trips a few years ago....guess I should have stayed away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 There's always one. :lol: Twenty bucks she complains the whole time about how it is too elementary for her dc. Even if she thought her dc would absolutely love it, the polite response was, "I really think my 6th grader would enjoy this; would you mind terribly if I signed him up?" I'm really amazed at the lack of manners and basic graciousness in people sometimes. People act like the ones who schedule field trips are being paid or something. It really is a thankless task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just a thought- I wonder if the child is disabled and not a sixth grade mentally. She still could have asked a much nicer way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 There's always one. :lol: Twenty bucks she complains the whole time about how it is too elementary for her dc. Even if she thought her dc would absolutely love it, the polite response was, "I really think my 6th grader would enjoy this; would you mind terribly if I signed him up?" I'm really amazed at the lack of manners and basic graciousness in people sometimes. People act like the ones who schedule field trips are being paid or something. It really is a thankless task. :iagree::iagree::iagree: It is one of my pet peeves how poorly some people treat the folks nice enough to put a field trip together. I refuse to do it now except on a tiny scale with a few families. I was on a field trip recently where I heard a mom muttering about how the behavioral expectations were WAY too much for her precious little one who was too young for the tour as it was advertised. If you're on a tour of historic relics with a docent, yep, you're going to need to stand still and listen now and again. If it's not for you, stay home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen in PA Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think that is pretty bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I probably would have told her that I do believe in grade limits, and her kid couldn't come. :glare: Maybe you should send a new email with age limits instead of grade limits. ;) Perhaps she is one of those moms who says her kid is in 6th grade, but the kid is actually a 7 year old Junior Einstein (according to her, I mean...:D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I was on a field trip recently where I heard a mom muttering about how the behavioral expectations were WAY too much for her precious little one who was too young for the tour as it was advertised. If you're on a tour of historic relics with a docent, yep, you're going to need to stand still and listen now and again. If it's not for you, stay home. That's the most common problem. And while junior is misbehaving, mom is chatting away in the back and interrupting the tour. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's the most common problem. And while junior is misbehaving, mom is chatting away in the back and interrupting the tour. :D Or she's outside having a cigarette... or three... leaving everyone else to keep an eye on Mommy's Little Angel. :glare: In this situation, the 6th grader could be a great kid who is lonely, and his mom is looking for any and all social opportunities for him, without realizing that sometimes taking advantage of every opportunity isn't appropriate for the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaichiki Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just a thought- I wonder if the child is disabled and not a sixth grade mentally. She still could have asked a much nicer way. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 No, I wouldn't, although FTR, I always list field trips by ages, not grade levels. Even so, any thinking person would realize that a field trip that's k-3rd children is going to be much too young for a child who is 11ish.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It is one of my pet peeves how poorly some people treat the folks nice enough to put a field trip together. I refuse to do it now except on a tiny scale with a few families. I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertDweller Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I wouldn't without at least asking because: 1. It's geared for a younger age group and might be boring for an older child. 2. Some 6th graders wouldn't be too happy if all the other kids are younger and there is no one for them to hang out with. 3. Field trips often are limited to a certain number of kids, which would mean someone with a younger child wouldn't be able to go since we took their spot. If you think there is enough interest from other families, I would tell her that you will put have to get back with her after everyone has signed up and only then will you be able to let her know if there is room to include her and her son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If the field trip looked interesting, I'd politely ask, but be willing to accept no or an answer. Some things are just interesting. Maybe not the grocery store . . . I dunno, there are some really interesting picture books out there and I'm definitely outside the target age range for those. I once dragged my children to a Cynthia Rylant exhibit because I was interested and KNEW they weren't. I probably would have told her that I do believe in grade limits, and her kid couldn't come. :glare: Maybe you should send a new email with age limits instead of grade limits. ;) Perhaps she is one of those moms who says her kid is in 6th grade, but the kid is actually a 7 year old Junior Einstein (according to her, I mean...:D) :lol: I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: Who wants to sign up for Ellie's next field trip and act all bratty???? :001_tt2: We can go for ice cream after we get kicked out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristusG Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If I thought my child may be interested in the field trip for younger children, I would inquire about it. I would NOT have gone about it the way that lady did though. I would have said something like "Hi, I know you said that the field trip was for younger kids, but I think that Little Johnny here would be interested in it. He's fascinated with grocery stores. Do you think it would be okay if we signed up too?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 DD is turning 10 soon and I can imagine her being interested in a field trip geared towards younger kids when she is 10-11. You just don't know their reasons for wanting to attend. For all you know, he could be developmentally delayed--this would explain the mother's defensiveness. And even if he isn't, I don't see what the problem is. I'd be much more cautious about parents wanting younger kids to attend, as this could lead to disruptions. I don't see a problem with an older child. If he is there, it is probably because *he* is interested, so this would mean he'd behave well and enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If I thought my child may be interested in the field trip for younger children, I would inquire about it. I would NOT have gone about it the way that lady did though. I would have said something like "Hi, I know you said that the field trip was for younger kids, but I think that Little Johnny here would be interested in it. He's fascinated with grocery stores. Do you think it would be okay if we signed up too?" :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If I thought my child may be interested in the field trip for younger children, I would inquire about it. I would NOT have gone about it the way that lady did though. I would have said something like "Hi, I know you said that the field trip was for younger kids, but I think that Little Johnny here would be interested in it. He's fascinated with grocery stores. Do you think it would be okay if we signed up too?" :iagree: Typically, I go the other way, though, asking if we can participate in a program for older kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay3fer Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 :iagree: With everything. :lol: My sister just sighs and says, "you've gotta love people..." (which is a lot more poetic than mine, which is, "people are morons.") I'm organizing LOTS of trips this year, and everybody believes their kid is the exception. I don't do it by grades - too many unschoolers here for that! :lol: - but I will definitely draw a line by age. I also say "no babies" if it's a concert or something where being quiet is important. I would allow a too-old child as a tag-along, but not by herself; that's just weird. I am very explicit about the ages from the beginning, and in fact, just last week, emailed the mother of a 12-year-old who was the only kid over 10 in an animation workshop. The workshop is offered for ages 5-12, but to be honest, I have no say in who signs up. If he's the only 12-year-old, and the average age is 7, he's NOT going to have a good time, so I offered to let him switch to another group I'm organizing with quite a few kids over 10. (I can't very well split it into 2 age groups, or my own young kids couldn't go!) Last year, my most disruptive group was actually a good friend whose unschooled 5-year-old decided she was interested in the symphony. My friend brought along her undisciplined 3-year-old and they squeaked and complained the whole time... until finally, the older child said she was bored, so they left in the middle. :-o (hmmm.... I should probably just say, "no unschoolers"... !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I replied that "it was fine, but since discussion on the field trip will be geared for K5-3rd, why not create another field trip for upper elementary so the discussion would be of more interest to your child?" I would have replied pretty much what you did, and then I would have promptly forgotten about it. I wouldn't have read it as snarky, and it wouldn't really bother me if she chose to bring an older kid along anyway. I honestly wouldn't let it get you this upset, I just don't see the big deal. Let her do what she will with that information. Either she'll come and her kid really will love it, or she'll come and her kid will be bored and that's her own fault, or she'll take your suggestion and create one for older kids, but either way, who cares, really. You still have your trip. ETA: No I wouldn't have personally gone about it that way though lol. I just wouldn't let her actions bother me or begrudge her kid the trip if the kid wanted to go; I just don't think it would affect me, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 One possibility that I've used when I had 1-2 MUCH older kids with a younger group-would the 11 yr old be able to be an assistant? If you give him a younger child's hand to hold and to keep up with, often that mitigates the "being the only big kid", and it also tends to curb the "11 yr old answers every question". This even works when you have an older child with developmental challenges-we have a 20 yr old in our elementary (changing topics, more social than academic) co-op class who is a "helper"-but really, cognitively he's on about the level of the 7-8 yr olds. He LOVES doing the activities and participating with the kids, and the youngest little boys love sitting with him, which helps keep active, bouncy 6 yr olds on task for the sitting still part of class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 No, I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: I wish you'd have been part of the homeschool group we were in!! I get that homeschool families are a diverse bunch and want to stay together. But trips meant for a certain age become a nightmare when too many outside the target age attend. If it's for younger kids and olders show up in numbers, the trip ends up being dominated by questions from the older kids. And if it's for older kids but moms bring their youngers, the tour guides almost ALWAYS watered it down to keep the youngers from becoming bored. And no matter what, the moms were so starved for adult time that they were the ones being disruptive chatting in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: What do you do with the money when the fieldtrip was actually free? What are you charging them to attend a free fieldtrip? Good gravy, makes me glad that I am usually the one organizing them around here. I have not had to institute such strictness, other than we start on time and if someone is late they miss the beginning. But I do not charge for free fieldtrips (in fact I purposely seek out free ones so my family can actually go). And I have never had to ask people to leave. I find that when I organize one everyone is pretty well behaved. I get needing to implement some rules for certain things like ages, or noise levels, but charging parents even for free fieldtrips and then I guess pocketing the money since it wasn't actually needed caught me offguard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What do you do with the money when the fieldtrip was actually free? What are you charging them to attend a free fieldtrip? Good gravy, makes me glad that I am usually the one organizing them around here. I have not had to institute such strictness, other than we start on time and if someone is late they miss the beginning. But I do not charge for free fieldtrips (in fact I purposely seek out free ones so my family can actually go). And I have never had to ask people to leave. I find that when I organize one everyone is pretty well behaved. I get needing to implement some rules for certain things like ages, or noise levels, but charging parents even for free fieldtrips and then I guess pocketing the money since it wasn't actually needed caught me offguard. When we saw that field trips were out of control (signing up and then not showing, etc.), we instituted a $1 charge even if the field trip was free. We used the money to send a thank you gift (usually a plant) to the place we visited. The kids signed a card, we sent the plant, and it reminded the venue that we appreciated their time. A few folks balked at the fee, and as soon as leadership changed, they abandoned the practice. It did work to bring things more under control, but probably wasn't necessary long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 When we saw that field trips were out of control (signing up and then not showing, etc.), we instituted a $1 charge even if the field trip was free. We used the money to send a thank you gift (usually a plant) to the place we visited. The kids signed a card, we sent the plant, and it reminded the venue that we appreciated their time. A few folks balked at the fee, and as soon as leadership changed, they abandoned the practice. It did work to bring things more under control, but probably wasn't necessary long term. Yep, even $1 makes people think about whether they really want to attend or not, and the interested families tend to behave better. Ellie has said before when we have discussed this that she donates the money. If you are part of an organized group, the money could also go into the general fund to pay for speakers, parties, etc. Like you said, having them pay a small amount in advance also ensures that they will actually show up. It's not a credit to homeschoolers when 20 people sign up for a field trip with a minimum limit of 15 people, but then only 8 show up. :glare: It's fine for one family to have an emergency now and then, of course, but when many people just blow things off frequently, it becomes a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yep, even $1 makes people think about whether they really want to attend or not, and the interested families tend to behave better. Ellie has said before when we have discussed this that she donates the money. If you are part of an organized group, the money could also go into the general fund to pay for speakers, parties, etc. Like you said, having them pay a small amount in advance also ensures that they will actually show up. It's not a credit to homeschoolers when 20 people sign up for a field trip with a minimum limit of 15 people, but then only 8 show up. :glare: It's fine for one family to have an emergency now and then, of course, but when many people just blow things off frequently, it becomes a problem. This was always our problem. If it was free, EVERYONE signed up and half would come. A good percentage of those who could be bothered to show up were the free spirit types who would float in (loudly) 15-minutes into the tour :glare:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What do you do with the money when the fieldtrip was actually free? What are you charging them to attend a free fieldtrip? Good gravy, makes me glad that I am usually the one organizing them around here. I have not had to institute such strictness, other than we start on time and if someone is late they miss the beginning. But I do not charge for free fieldtrips (in fact I purposely seek out free ones so my family can actually go). And I have never had to ask people to leave. I find that when I organize one everyone is pretty well behaved. I get needing to implement some rules for certain things like ages, or noise levels, but charging parents even for free fieldtrips and then I guess pocketing the money since it wasn't actually needed caught me offguard. If it's free, I charge $1 a person, and it goes in the kitty for the next event. I know, it sounds draconian, but I know of more than one leader who organized a field trip expecting a huge crowd, because the parents had all said they'd come, and hardly anyone actually showed up. The first one I heard of was when a mother told the group at her Moms' Night Out about a field trip to an outdoor nature walk. All the others said it sounded great, and she left with a count of about 40 people (children and adults). She made arrangements for this *free* activity, and the organization brought on two or three docents because of the number of supposed participants. On the day of the event, it was the one mother and her one child, and one other mother and her two children. :glare: This was not an isolated event. Charging $1 per person makes them commit. Sad but true. If we were just going to meet somewhere and self-guide or goof off or whatever, I wouldn't care who showed up. But any time I had to make any sort of arrangment or commitment or whatnot with the destination site, I charged. I have also been to field trips where people didn't have to pay in advance, and the scrum that ensued on-site, with the organizers trying to count heads and collect money was ugly. Imagine this: Monterey Bay Aquarium. Children are free, one adult free per five children, all others pay the regular price. Everyone shares the cost. Everyone must go in at the same time. Seventy-five people show up, children and adults. The person who organized the field trip has to count all of the children; count all the adults; divide the number of children by 5, giving you the number of free adults; subtract that number from the total number of adults; multiply that by $10 (so you know how much must be paid); divide that number by the total number of adults, which tells you how much each person must pay; wait while upwards of 20 or 30 adults write checks; collect all the money; pay the docent (who is patiently waiting nearby). Do this while 30-45 children are milling around on the pier outside the aquarium. :blink: Yes, I've been to a couple of field trips just like that. Or charge all adults $10 each, collected a week ahead of time. Show up with your list of total number of adults and children. Check off names as they arrive. At the appointed time, write one check to the docent. Watch the docent weep for joy, because she had just worked with a group like the other one the day before. Everyone walks in together. Which do you think is better? :) When my support group planned field trips, we purposely planned some that were free and we could all just show up, some that we needed to make reservations for the group so we charged $1, and some that required more planning and money (we did two field trips a month, year-round). We only had to ask one mother to leave with her children; in fact, the children were so bad that they were not allowed to go on any field trips. :glare: But we heard from more than one field trip destination that in general, they really disliked homeschoolers because of the children's behavior (although one said it was the adults who were the problem, because they stood in the back and talked the whole time :glare:). One of my friends in another support group said that she thought my rules were tough, too...until she became the field trip coordinator for her group, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiebird Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I stopped participating in homeschool field trips in the last area we lived just because of some of the annoying things talked about here. And it was annoying- to show up for a hike and find out only two people out of the 20 that signed up had skipped it, for a tour set for 15 little kids and have the moms act like the Kardashians in the back of the group while the 1234324 siblings not-of-age ran around screaming. It makes it embarrassing because it reinforces all those stereotypes floating around that many homeschoolers let their kids run wild. And why not think that? If an employee is trying to give a tour about paintings, for example, and it's geared down to a very low level to reach little ones (do you see the primary colors? How does the artist use them? or whatever.) and you have 5 target aged kids trying to listen, 10 more target aged kids behaving like monkeys while their mom's chat across the gallery and don't pay attention, 5 more older kids wanted to discuss deeper issues about the painting in ways more complicated for the target group, and 20 siblings that are running around acting like a normal 2-3 year old but unsupervised-- what do you think the impression is going to be? The not showing up to a committed activity because, "We're unschooling and Bobby didn't feel like it today because we do not adhere to any structure what so ever!" is horse manure too. I don't care how a child learns- public/private/tutor/structured homeschooler, unschooling/cyberschool-- you still have to make appointments on time or classes on time or show up at the theater at the correct time, or get to a job on time as a teen or adult! /huge rant that doesn't help :lol:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Our group doesn't really limit field trips by age unless the location requests an age-cut off or limits the numbers. One that comes to mind was the juvenile court house. The judge said 12 and up (understandable given what they discussed). But the vast majority of our field trips include babies in strollers all the way up to teenagers. I wouldn't have had a problem with a 6th grader going on a K-3 trip to the grocery store if they were polite and well-behaved. They may have even been helpful. The mother went about it the wrong way though. Her attitude unfortunately is common. I frequently run into homeschool parents who think rules don't apply to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I cannot imagine a kid that age would enjoy something like that. How rude. I was the main organizer for the first half of our events this year and am still on the committee for our group this semester. We haven't had as bad a time as some thankfully but people are notoriously unreliable. It seems so far that just asking people to sign up is a good encouragement to actually show up. There are always those that want things disorganized and get annoyed for making any plans ahead of time it is maddening. We have a few trips like Ellie mentioned, it is a lot to keep track of- and often thankless. Even better is complaints because there are always those who like to find something to complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Knoll Mom Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: :hurray: I run my group the same way. Don't even get me started on the rude and disrespectful behavior a group in my area showed Jim Weiss on his recent visit here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If it's free, I charge $1 a person, and it goes in the kitty for the next event. I know, it sounds draconian, but I know of more than one leader who organized a field trip expecting a huge crowd, because the parents had all said they'd come, and hardly anyone actually showed up. The first one I heard of was when a mother told the group at her Moms' Night Out about a field trip to an outdoor nature walk. All the others said it sounded great, and she left with a count of about 40 people (children and adults). She made arrangements for this *free* activity, and the organization brought on two or three docents because of the number of supposed participants. On the day of the event, it was the one mother and her one child, and one other mother and her two children. :glare: This was not an isolated event. Charging $1 per person makes them commit. Sad but true. If we were just going to meet somewhere and self-guide or goof off or whatever, I wouldn't care who showed up. But any time I had to make any sort of arrangment or commitment or whatnot with the destination site, I charged. I have also been to field trips where people didn't have to pay in advance, and the scrum that ensued on-site, with the organizers trying to count heads and collect money was ugly. Imagine this: Monterey Bay Aquarium. Children are free, one adult free per five children, all others pay the regular price. Everyone shares the cost. Everyone must go in at the same time. Seventy-five people show up, children and adults. The person who organized the field trip has to count all of the children; count all the adults; divide the number of children by 5, giving you the number of free adults; subtract that number from the total number of adults; multiply that by $10 (so you know how much must be paid); divide that number by the total number of adults, which tells you how much each person must pay; wait while upwards of 20 or 30 adults write checks; collect all the money; pay the docent (who is patiently waiting nearby). Do this while 30-45 children are milling around on the pier outside the aquarium. :blink: Yes, I've been to a couple of field trips just like that. Or charge all adults $10 each, collected a week ahead of time. Show up with your list of total number of adults and children. Check off names as they arrive. At the appointed time, write one check to the docent. Watch the docent weep for joy, because she had just worked with a group like the other one the day before. Everyone walks in together. Which do you think is better? :) When my support group planned field trips, we purposely planned some that were free and we could all just show up, some that we needed to make reservations for the group so we charged $1, and some that required more planning and money (we did two field trips a month, year-round). We only had to ask one mother to leave with her children; in fact, the children were so bad that they were not allowed to go on any field trips. :glare: But we heard from more than one field trip destination that in general, they really disliked homeschoolers because of the children's behavior (although one said it was the adults who were the problem, because they stood in the back and talked the whole time :glare:). One of my friends in another support group said that she thought my rules were tough, too...until she became the field trip coordinator for her group, lol. That makes sense then as to why you have done that. I have never had a field trip where people who said they were coming didn't show up. In fact I have usually had to let families know ahead of time that I have to put them on a waitlist. I can see if I was going to fieldtrips like you said or that it was common within the ones I am arranging for that people were unreliable to do like you have done. If a field trip actually cost money I get that in advance and just make 1 payment to the location, but like I said I usually plan ones that are free, because my own family can't attend much that costs money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: You go, girl. But I do have a question. What do yo do with the money you collect for free field trips? Okay. Never mind. I see what you do with the money. Edited January 31, 2012 by Parrothead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 "In this situation, the 6th grader could be a great kid who is lonely, and his mom is looking for any and all social opportunities for him, without realizing that sometimes taking advantage of every opportunity isn't appropriate for the child." __________________ No , I don't think its bizarre. There has been times when my older girls participate in events geared towards younger children, because, well, that's all we have available and its better than nothing. Most families in our area have lots of younger children. Very few homeschooled kids the ages of my oldest that we know of. But when we do my daughters are prepared ahead of time that its meant for younger sister. But to just enjoy the day and get out of the house and they do. We truly are lonely though where we live so we just take any opportunity anymore to get out of the house. Now if she complains that its a boring field trip and she's bored. I would immediately correct mom or/and child and let them know that you forewarned them that the field trip was set up for younger children. I do agree she could of said it in a much nicer way though. Maybe something like : My daughter loves to go on field trips. I know your field trip is geared towards younger children but do you mind if she comes along? She really likes to go grocery shopping with me so thought she may enjoy this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Our group doesn't really limit field trips by age unless the location requests an age-cut off or limits the numbers. One that comes to mind was the juvenile court house. The judge said 12 and up (understandable given what they discussed). But the vast majority of our field trips include babies in strollers all the way up to teenagers. I wouldn't have had a problem with a 6th grader going on a K-3 trip to the grocery store if they were polite and well-behaved. They may have even been helpful. The mother went about it the wrong way though. Her attitude unfortunately is common. I frequently run into homeschool parents who think rules don't apply to them. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That makes sense then as to why you have done that. I have never had a field trip where people who said they were coming didn't show up. In fact I have usually had to let families know ahead of time that I have to put them on a waitlist. I can see if I was going to fieldtrips like you said or that it was common within the ones I am arranging for that people were unreliable to do like you have done. TY. :) The very first field trip my dds and I went on (in 1982) was a four-hour, behind-the-scenes tour of the San Diego Zoo. It was $15 per person--ouch--but it was such a wonderful opportunity that I crunched the budget so we could go. A friend actually organized it. She did not have people pay in advance. Turns out we had to have 15 bodies--the Zoo didn't care how old those bodies were--and we had to pay for 15 whether there were 15 or not. A couple of the people who said they were coming didn't show up, and the rest of us had to pay their share. Ugh. If a field trip actually cost money I get that in advance and just make 1 payment to the location, but like I said I usually plan ones that are free, because my own family can't attend much that costs money. We made sure that we didn't plan very many outings that cost much at all. In fact, most of ours were free...other than the $1 per person. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 :hurray: I run my group the same way. TYVM. :D Don't even get me started on the rude and disrespectful behavior a group in my area showed Jim Weiss on his recent visit here. That just torks my jaw. Once I organized a science fair and invited Jane Hoffman, the Backyard Scientist, to be the judge. At the end of the day, she did some fun hands-on activities--her specialty--outside, and the children were bad, and the parents were worse. After about 5 minutes, I gently interrupted Jane and told the children to straighten up and fly right, and the parents to go away if they wanted to talk amongst themselves. It felt GOOD to do that, lol. Oh, and also back in the 80s, one of our leaders arranged for a Hug-a-Tree program. When the speaker she was talking with found out she was a homeschooler, he almost hung up on her, because he said homeschoolers were the worst--the talked all through his presentation, and they gave pathetically poor donations; in fact, he'd called all of the other presenters and told them not to do homeschool groups at all. :eek: She promised him we would behave and he agreed to do the presentation. We all showed up on time, and had the most perfectly behaved children in San Diego, and we waited for him to arrive...and waited...and waited...and waited. Turned out he had forgotten about us. :lol: So we rescheduled, and we managed to pull off perfectly behaved dc a second time. :D We also made a nice donation to the Hug-a-Tree program. ::pats self on back:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rieshy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have very rigid rules about field trips: I charge for all field trips whether they actually cost anything or not; I require people to sign up, in advance, by a deadline, and by "sign up" I mean I want to see money in my hand. I don't want phone calls, e-mails, conversations in the park...show me the money. And I don't give refunds. Also, we start on time. If you're late, so sorry. No refund. Next time you'll be here when I say you need to be here. Furthermore, I tell everyone beforehand what *my* expectations are for behavior, and that I have no qualms about correcting children whose parents don't, and that I will ask them to leave if they don't behave (and that includes talkative parents). Yeah. Don't be messing with me. :lol: I've been too embarrassed too many times to risk taking my kids with other h.s. We haven't done a group field trip in years. If I saw an invitation to join a field trip worded as upfront and blunt as what you wrote above I'd jump for joy and risk it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Peach Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 No I would not. But. People are weird. Every time I leave the gym (there are six open treadmills next to me and you chose the one next to me--why?), grocery store (Hello! Your cart is blocking the aisle. The world doesn't revolve around you!), or Walmart (there are websites about this!), I leave shaking my head and muttering, "People are weird!" I'll never figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If the field trip looked interesting, I'd politely ask, but be willing to accept no or an answer. Some things are just interesting. :iagree: I recently RSVP'd for me and my two youngest for the French club meetup and asked specifically in the RSVP to PLEASE let me know if it is not okay to bring children and that I am completely understanding and willing to make other arrangements if it is not okay. It is being held at a little sandwhich shop and if they are antsy/tired/whatever or if the vibe feels like,"hey, what are the KIDS doing here?" then we will just say our polite Au Revoirs and :auto: . Never assume anything. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchen table academy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't think that a 6th grader should be going on a field trip geared for younger children UNLESS: 1) They have younger siblings going on the field trip. Then it may possibly be a family affair and so I'd be more tolerant...but not 100% ok with it. 2) They have mental/emotional/other issues that may discourage them from pursuing more age-appropriate activities or trips...still not 100% ok with it. 3) They were going along with the understanding that they were going to be treated as a young adult and expected to behave accordingly. I'd also expect them to help out with the younger kids to an appropriate extent. 4) I'd also explain to the mom that IF her son comes on the field trip, perhaps she should plan a mini-lesson just for him so he actually gets something out of the trip. A grocery store math lesson, a meal planning and shopping lesson, or a nutrition label comparison lesson would be appropriate for most 11-12 year olds and wouldn't be too distracting to the rest of the group as long they were discrete about it. But really, I think this mom needs to seek more age-appropriate activities for her son. There are TONS of opportunities for kids in this age range...music lessons, band, orchestra, sports, boy scouts, youth groups, foreign language clubs and classes, book groups, teen movie nights, library activities...WAY more free/low cost options than for younger kids too, so if he doesn't like something or isn't thriving, no worries about pulling him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Just a little update to my hijack: I only took my 7 year old son to the French Club meet-up and they were so kind and welcoming! :hurray: He wants to learn more French so he can read Tintin! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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