out-of-control 3 year old

[caedmyn]

My 3 YO DS is out of control. He's extremely strong-willed and very intense as well as being very active (he's a climber). He's been a very difficult child since birth and now his behavior is getting worse and worse. I feel like I have tried everything and nothing really works with him. I've tried ignoring his behavior, spanking him, sitting him on a chair, standing him in the corner, verbal reprimands, and "natural consequences". He is completely untrustworthy as well. I cannot even go to the bathroom without him getting into something he shouldn't in the kitchen, hitting his brother, pulling his sister's hair, etc. He behaves somewhat better when he gets enough sleep but that rarely happens because he just will not go to sleep before about 9:30 pm (and then gets up at 6:30 am). I swear he lies there thinking of excuses for getting out of bed.

 

No matter what I ask him to do he fights it. Everything is a battle. Anytime I try to get him to do anything he whines, runs away, and/or is defiant, and then he screams when he doesn't get his way or I try to impose some consequences. Like last night at bedtime--we were doing bedtime prayers. I had him sit on my lap because lately when I've let him lie on his bed he chatters, kicks the wall, thrashes around, etc. He is perfectly capable of being quiet and laying reasonably still during prayers, and he knows he's supposed to, he just doesn't want to. So I had him sit on my lap and immediately he started flailing around with his arms. I put my arms gently over his arms and told him I'd help him keep his arms still. He fought that for about 2 seconds and then moved on to stomping his feet on the floor. I told him twice to stop and then told him that since he wouldn't sit still he was done praying. Then of course he started screaming. It's like this with everything. I am not making unreasonable requests and he is very capable of doing the things he's asked to do, and he knows what he's supposed to do. He goes out of his way to do everything he's not supposed to do, very deliberately. He does behave quite a bit better with DH though he still does a lot of the same stuff on a lesser scale.

[MissKNG]

:lurk5:

[Pamela H in Texas]

Okay, so the bathroom issue is most important. LOL What *I* did with a foster child I couldn't leave long enough to pee was to have him sit with his back against the door and fingers "aped" behind him under the door (hopefully, you can picture that). That bought me a little time. He would have to get up, I would know because his hands wouldn't be under the door, he couldn't do it quietly, etc. I would open the door and chat with him while washing up after pottying. We could also chat, play word games, be silly through the door while I potty'd. But the main thing was to keep him RIGHT there unable to easily get into trouble for the 30 seconds it takes to pee! (Btw, foster kid was 5½ years old. A biological 3yr old I'd probably just have in the bathroom with me; but YMMV :) ).

 

For things that you need him to comply with, you must practice. It's a logical consequence to not doing it appropriately the night before.

 

As for how to do the praying (or anything really) is up to you. I have done two different ways. Part of it is what works for YOU and part what works for your kiddo. Basically, you can be very loose with a brick wall on what kiddo may and may not do or you can be VERY strict about what to do. Examples:

 

***With ds, when he was little, he HATED holding my hand. However, I had to keep him safe. So we implemented "armslength." In bigger areas, he had to make sure he could see me, I could see him. But then armslength was practiced regularly so he came running to that. This is the loose method.

 

***With C, I am very strict with the rules because he thrives on knowing EXACTLY what he can do. So sitting at the Kingdom Hall, he sits in a certain seat in a certain way (there actually is a second position as no one can sit still for an hour and a half, imo). He can only do X or Y while sitting there. At the convention this summer, he was better behaved than kids double his age who had been Witnesses all their lives though he had lived with us two months at that point.

 

So you have to know your kiddo and how you are. And you may have to tweak along the way. Maybe he needs to be allowed one and only one position to pray within. Or maybe he could do X or Y or Z but has to pick.

 

BTW, at the Kingdom Hall, we're standing to pray. My kids are in ONE position, NOT leaning on the seats in front or behind them (even though the seats are bolted down so not going anywhere). They may not sway or look around. They have their hands clasped in front and heads bowed completely. I can't tell if eyes are shut but I'll assume not :) They are all within armslength so I can put my hand/finger on them to redirect if necessary (rarely so). During songs, they hold their own song books but MAY rest them on the seat in front of them. They are to follow along. My big kids and I help them do so. Only the 6yr old can read and not well enough to sing along usually, but....However, at the hall before and after, they are given a lot more freedom. The six yr old can even walk around with her friends as long as they are talking to people, not running, etc. The boys can come in and out of conversations, arms, etc as I'm "milling." They do plenty of wiggling and hugging :)

 

Just some examples so you can see how we do it.

 

Does that help at all?

Edited December 30, 2011 by 2J5M9K

[abbeyej]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful or depressing, but honestly, he mostly just sounds like a 3yo to me. Which is frustrating in that there may not be a lot to "do" differently in the short term to make things better, but in the long term, he won't be three forever. And that part is good. ;)

 

The borderline/minimal sleep issue is the physical thing that sounds most in need of address and also possible to address. On the one hand, some kids simply don't need as much sleep as others, but since you see a difference in his behavior when he does get adequate rest, I think it's something to deal with. I'd look first at diet and exercise. First, if there's anywhere you can "clean up" his diet, go for that. Especially around the holidays, treats and junk food seem to be everywhere. It's likely not the root cause of anything, but he'll be better off if you can get all sugar, sugar-substitutes, artificial foods (coloring, flavoring), and caffeine out of his vicinity. ... If you have ever suspected food allergies, he's old enough now that testing might give you some clues as to where to start an elimination diet. (Before age 3, the tests available to us just aren't very accurate. After age 3, they can give you a *start*.) ... And food allergies *can* make behavior that much more difficult to deal with -- on your side *and* his.

 

Then, exercise. He probably needs to be *physically*worn*out* on a daily basis. I'm not sure what resources you have available to you and what your climate is. But FIND a way to wear him out. For your sanity, for his... Check the local Y for swimming lessons (and tell the coach to *work* him) or toddler gymnastics, take him out "running" or biking with you every day, get him a mini-tramp and play loud music while he jumps / dances on it, do jumping jacks together... It may be enough for another thread. But find a way to run him 'til he's panting and red-faced every day.

 

Then start your bedtime routine a little earlier. Once you've been through the tooth-brushing and stories and prayers (whatever your routine is), tell him you love him, kiss him, tuck him in, and let him know that he may not get up again until morning. Then go sit in the doorway with your back to him and don't move or speak. If he gets up and comes to you, pick him up gently, say, "No. Bedtime." and put him back in bed. After that, no more speaking. Don't argue, don't negotiate, don't fight. Pick him up, put him in the bed, turn around and return to the doorway. ... The first night, you might have to return him repeatedly. For a strong-willed kiddo, it could even be dozens of times. Don't give in. Don't lose your temper. Just keep putting him back. Gently, quietly. Over and over as necessary.

 

Then do it again the next night. ... For most kids, 2-3 nights will be enough. If he's at the far end of strong-willed, well, it could be longer. But it's worth it. Tell yourself you're stronger and calmer and can outlast him without losing your temper (or your mind).

 

Get the sleep under control and then worry about daytime stuff. But keep in mind those same principles of absolutely consistency with gentleness and love. I don't think the "method" of discipline matters so much as consistency and calm on your part (and that it's all coming from a place of love and gentleness). Don't give in and negotiate with a 3yo along the way (though you can talk through all of these things in moments of *calm* -- not in the middle of events)...

 

And, well... Someday he won't be 3? ;)

[Annie Laurie]

Have you read the early childhood Love and Logic book?

 

I feel for you. My ds is only 1 but he was such a difficult infant and is already a much more intense toddler than I'm used to dealing with. I keep rereading the Love and Logic book, hoping the techniques in there will help because the book makes a lot of sense to me and I like having concrete things I can do.

 

Do you offer lots and lots of choices? Like maybe ask him if he wants to pray sitting in your lap or sitting next to you? I look back, and I had one child who was a terror of a 2 and 3 yr old, but now I can see that I engaged in way too many battles with him and should have framed things as a choice. (A choice I could live with. Like instead of saying, "Please go wash your hands for lunch." I should have said "It's time for lunch. Would you like to wash your hands in the bathroom or in the kitchen?")

 

Offer your son choices all day long and see what happens, even silly choices. Red socks or yellow socks? Should we sing Old McDonald or Twinkle Twinkle? Yogurt or an apple for snack? The yellow cup or the blue cup? Do you want to leave in 5 minutes or 10 minutes? Do you want to skip to the car or walk to the car?

 

Then when there is something that there is no way to have a choice on, you can calmly remind him of all the choices he got to make all day and now it's your turn.

 

Also, you have to make a lot of deposits, spend time with him that's just for fun, give him lots of hugs and attentions, etc, before you can make withdrawals without negative behavior.

 

I can also see where empathizing and placing the consequences on my child would have taken a lot of the power away from him when he could see that it didn't affect mom, only him.

 

So the first time he started stomping and flailing, no warnings, just say "How sad. Prayer time is over" and place him in his bed and leave.

 

Also, I have heard of so many instances where a child started getting enough sleep and their behavior changed for the better. The book (sorry, I'm a reader so when I have a problem, I turn to a book!) Sleepless in America has some really good info and advice.

[Parrothead]

What Pam said. What Abbey said. Lots of sleep and to get there lots of exercise. Especially as he is a boy. Then during the day modeling appropriate behavior.

 

I understand there are a few really good books for parents of strong willed kids. Hopefully someone will jump in and post links.

 

:grouphug:

[Rosyl]

I feel for you! My 12 year old was like that. My attempting to exhaust him was so exhausting.

He could walk 3.5 miles and not take a nap when he was 3.

 

If I knew then what I know now, I would eliminate processed foods asap.

 

I would enforce, lovingly, first time obedience and I would outlast the kid because a strong willed child is only stronger willed than the parent. Outlasting the kid takes way,way,way,way more time to do than with a compliant child so plan to spend lots time on this, consider it an investment. Using Love and Logic here is a help.

[Ellie]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful or depressing, but honestly, he mostly just sounds like a 3yo to me.

You all had 3yo dc who behaved this way? :blink:

[Amy in NH]

I'm not sure if this will be helpful or depressing, but honestly, he mostly just sounds like a 3yo to me. Which is frustrating in that there may not be a lot to "do" differently in the short term to make things better, but in the long term, he won't be three forever. And that part is good. ;)

 

The borderline/minimal sleep issue is the physical thing that sounds most in need of address and also possible to address. On the one hand, some kids simply don't need as much sleep as others, but since you see a difference in his behavior when he does get adequate rest, I think it's something to deal with. I'd look first at diet and exercise. First, if there's anywhere you can "clean up" his diet, go for that. Especially around the holidays, treats and junk food seem to be everywhere. It's likely not the root cause of anything, but he'll be better off if you can get all sugar, sugar-substitutes, artificial foods (coloring, flavoring), and caffeine out of his vicinity. ... If you have ever suspected food allergies, he's old enough now that testing might give you some clues as to where to start an elimination diet. (Before age 3, the tests available to us just aren't very accurate. After age 3, they can give you a *start*.) ... And food allergies *can* make behavior that much more difficult to deal with -- on your side *and* his.

 

Then, exercise. He probably needs to be *physically*worn*out* on a daily basis. I'm not sure what resources you have available to you and what your climate is. But FIND a way to wear him out. For your sanity, for his... Check the local Y for swimming lessons (and tell the coach to *work* him) or toddler gymnastics, take him out "running" or biking with you every day, get him a mini-tramp and play loud music while he jumps / dances on it, do jumping jacks together... It may be enough for another thread. But find a way to run him 'til he's panting and red-faced every day.

 

Then start your bedtime routine a little earlier. Once you've been through the tooth-brushing and stories and prayers (whatever your routine is), tell him you love him, kiss him, tuck him in, and let him know that he may not get up again until morning. Then go sit in the doorway with your back to him and don't move or speak. If he gets up and comes to you, pick him up gently, say, "No. Bedtime." and put him back in bed. After that, no more speaking. Don't argue, don't negotiate, don't fight. Pick him up, put him in the bed, turn around and return to the doorway. ... The first night, you might have to return him repeatedly. For a strong-willed kiddo, it could even be dozens of times. Don't give in. Don't lose your temper. Just keep putting him back. Gently, quietly. Over and over as necessary.

 

Then do it again the next night. ... For most kids, 2-3 nights will be enough. If he's at the far end of strong-willed, well, it could be longer. But it's worth it. Tell yourself you're stronger and calmer and can outlast him without losing your temper (or your mind).

 

Get the sleep under control and then worry about daytime stuff. But keep in mind those same principles of absolutely consistency with gentleness and love. I don't think the "method" of discipline matters so much as consistency and calm on your part (and that it's all coming from a place of love and gentleness). Don't give in and negotiate with a 3yo along the way (though you can talk through all of these things in moments of *calm* -- not in the middle of events)...

 

And, well... Someday he won't be 3? ;)

 

:iagree: 100%

[acurtis75]

I see in your signature that one of your children attends Christian school. If you aren't opposed to reading Christian materials I highly recommend the books Shepherding a Child's Heart and The Heart of Anger. I have two friend's who were in your exact situation and used the techniques in the books successfully.

[KirstenH]

You all had 3yo dc who behaved this way? :blink:

 

My eldest behaved exactly that way at 3. Now, at 7.5, he has yet to completely grow out of it, and no punishment/discipline method is really effective. (Whereas my 4 year old has NEVER acted that way and just the threat of a time out for bad behavior causes him to crumple and beg forgiveness, and actually change the behavior.) Some kids are tougher than others.

 

This isn't meant to be scary to the OP, but we are considering having the 7.5 year old tested for ADHD and Aspergers. On the bright side, he's profoundly gifted, which can also contribute to this kind of behavior, and he is very functional other than his total lack of impulse control. (At three, though ... sheesh. Let's just say I called them the "terrorist threes" -- like the terrible twos, but worse -- for a reason ... until I had a second child and realized not every toddler acts that way.)

 

Hang in there, but try not to compare him to your other kids, and keep open to the possibility that there may be more to it than defiance or bad behavior. I'm hoping that a bit of therapy will do wonders for my son, who would like to behave better, but feels unable. (Breaks my heart.)

[NicAnn]

I really recommend Playful Parenting by Cohen, and the Discipline Book by Sears. Read Playful Parenting regardless of what else you read. It's a really nice way to deal with the behaviors...although sometimes I find myself struggling!

[2squared]

:grouphug:

 

You are having a tough time with this little guy.

 

If I remember correctly, you're also the poster who asked for advice on how to teach your 3yo to not run away from you in public. From what I remember from that thread, you said that he doesn't run away from your dh and you know you haven't spent enough time training him because you are sleep deprived and busy with your other kids and house. In your OP, you mentioned that he doesn't exhibit these behaviors to the same level with your dh.

 

Have you asked your dh why he thinks your little guy behaves better for him than for you?

 

Many 3yo need pretty constant supervision which is good becuase it forces you to work with him and spend that time training him. I get being tired. I get having other children. I get high intensity, needy children. Truly, I get all that. I live it. Mothering can be difficult, exhausting, and painful. I have many days in which I would like to bury my head in the sand. Every day I spend not addressing the kids' issues are days that we don't make forward progress. They more I poor into them, the more I get back from then.

 

I also think I saw anther post from you on how to be more flexible and go-with-the-flow. I don't know the answer for you, but I think a flexible, loving, grace-filled mother is a happier mother.

 

All that to say - my goal for the new year is to fill our house with more joy and laughter. I take things waaaay too seriously. I'm not sowing the seeds I want to reap.

[Samiam]

I am not judging you, I am really not....my middle DS was similiar...but really what I realized is that it was not so much him, but ME. First, my first born child was NOTHING like this. He was a DREAM child, so easy to parent, just made me feel like this parenting gig was so easy and wow, how good I was at it. Uh, yeah, right...so here comes next DS and flips my world upside down!!!

 

So first, I needed to realize that he is just a different child and I am going to have to revamp my parenting skills a bit. I am going to need to do some learning on this child, because I'm do not know how to handle him. What worked without effort for my first DS, did not even comprehend for my next DS.

 

So what I noticed about your post, and again, completely NOT judging you, is there seems to be alot of negative reinforcement happening. You've listed several things you do to correct/punish him, but I wonder what you do as positive reinforcement? For example, if you need to use the bathroom, how about asking him to sit right next to the door (maybe keep a basket of toys right there) while you do that, and if he does , he gets a treat. I had to learn to do this myself. I had to remember to always give him good praise for the good things he did, not matter how little, so that he began to learn that it makes Mommy happy when I do good things, versus I get Mommy's attention when I do bad things.

 

Treats went a LONG way in my world...yes, bribery if you will.

 

Also...food choices. Eliminating processed food as much as possible, avoiding red food dye 110%, and sugar was out. That made a huge difference within a few weeks (got to give it time for those things that are already in his system to work their way out).

 

Sleeping..my son would refuse to go to sleep, wake up numerous times every night, and be bright eyed and bushytailed in the a.m....ugh! I needed him to get into a nice deep slumber so I could. Essential oil, lavender, was HUGE for us. I sprinkled it on his pillow, his blanket and rubbed a bit on his chest with a carrier oil (almond oil). Every night. Within a few days, his sleeping pattern was completely different! He actually slept!!! Eventually, I moved away from the lavender oil, and now at 8, he sleeps like a normal human without any assistance, lol!

 

I know it's hard, when you are in the trenches, and every day is a battle....but little changes , be sure to give them time to work, it won't happen every night, and both of your lives will be back on track.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My ds wasn't particularly bad because we helped him be successful. We found what worked for him. But yes, we parented intentionally because he was THREE and he had some special needs and he was THREE.

 

And if you had a life like my current 3 year old has had, you'd need a LOT more direction than average to be successful also. Many people wouldn't have survived what he has been through. I certainly don't expect that he just magically learned to be a perfectly behaved little person.

[5kidsforME]

Then start your bedtime routine a little earlier. Once you've been through the tooth-brushing and stories and prayers (whatever your routine is), tell him you love him, kiss him, tuck him in, and let him know that he may not get up again until morning. Then go sit in the doorway with your back to him and don't move or speak. If he gets up and comes to you, pick him up gently, say, "No. Bedtime." and put him back in bed. After that, no more speaking. Don't argue, don't negotiate, don't fight. Pick him up, put him in the bed, turn around and return to the doorway. ... The first night, you might have to return him repeatedly. For a strong-willed kiddo, it could even be dozens of times. Don't give in. Don't lose your temper. Just keep putting him back. Gently, quietly. Over and over as necessary.

 

Then do it again the next night. ... For most kids, 2-3 nights will be enough. If he's at the far end of strong-willed, well, it could be longer. But it's worth it. Tell yourself you're stronger and calmer and can outlast him without losing your temper (or your mind).

 

 

We did this for 2 of my kids. At the time 3 of them were sharing a room. The two littlest is what we did the above to. The first few nights i sat in the doorway for over 4 hours each night. It was torture. It took us 2 weeks of this, with each night a little less time. BUT it did work. If they regressed at all one or two nights at the most of doing the above again worked.

[*********]

(Most) of the pp have had good advice. :D

 

I'll just add something regarding the sleep.

 

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but I've read many places (and it works for my boys) that if you put them to sleep EARLIER, they'll still sleep until they're "pre-programmed' wake-up time.

 

And in fact, when my boys have been staying up too late a few nights in a row, I just put them to bed earlier, and they usually sleep in LATER than their usual wake time.

 

Something to try. It *does* sound to me like the little guy needs more sleep. I just don't think that regularly getting 9 hours a night at age 3 is enough, unless he's also taking at LEAST a 3 hour nap every day, according to recommendations.

 

I just checked sleepfoundation.org, which is where the American Academy of Pediatrics website directs you to read about sleep needs for children. It says:

 

1-3 year olds need 12-14 hours of sleep in 24 hours (so that would include night-time sleeping as well as probably 1 nap per day for your 3yo)

 

3-5 year olds need 11-13 hours of sleep per *night*, so that's NOT counting a nap.

 

So, as a basic guideline, your 3yo needs at LEAST 11 hours of sleep at night, PLUS a nap until about age 5 (of, I would assume, at least one hour), or at LEAST 12 hours of sleep total INCLUDING a nap. And these are *minimums*. So you're looking at a minimum recommendation of 12 hours of sleep per 24 hours, UP TO 14 hours of sleep per 24 hours.

 

I do realize these are *recommendations*, but I know I find it helpful sometimes to have info like this.

[venusmom]

If it's been mentioned already - I apologize - but my first son was so like this and I had no idea what I had done by having this child. I felt so overwhelmed. I had doc telling me it was normal - but I knew in my gut it was not. He did not see how my ds acted all the time. Finally - I took a first aid class for work and the instructor had a huge interest in fresh foods, balanced diet and shared her views with us. It turned out to be a blessing. Here is what I was doing:

 

My son had a fairly balanced diet - however he loved apple juice - and unbeknownst to me, (I was young and just hadn't thought this through) apple juice, though I bought unsweetened, is still sugar. She told us that juices are all the sugar from the fruit without all the parts of the fruit we need the most. This really made sense with me - and I realized that though he only had a couple of cookies or a few pieces of candy here and there - he was drinking juice multiple times a day. His little 3 and 4 year old body could not handle that much sugar - turns out we found he is a little more sensitive to sugar, dairy, and fatty foods, than most children as well - so this may have caused these behaviors in him more intensely than they might have done in my other kids - but just the same - I just was more careful after that about sugar and other not so healthy foods. I did not restrict them completely - but I kept them in moderation, as it should have been in the first place.

 

Ultimately - we ended up learning that he was really sensitive to sugars, greasy things, and dairy because of this - so it was good that we backed off. I had never realized before that many of his illnesses had been triggered by foods - it saved us quite a few sick days after that.

 

I have no idea if your child could be eating / drinking more sugar than you realize - but it's an easy fix to just limit a few unhealthy foods to see if it helps - it turned my ds's behavior around in less than 2 weeks - I was amazed at the transformation in him (of course - this was probably most notable with him because he was so sensitive to sugar - my other children have tolerated occasional high sugar days with no problems when they've been indulged - but he never could - if he ate badly we could tell within hours.)

[MegP]

Have you heard of Raising Godly Tomatoes? They have a free book you can read on the site and a message board, too!

[Alyeska]

Don't know if this has been mentioned or not...but food allergies or sensitivities can cause behavior problems. I have a friend whose sweetie pie daughter becomes absolutely unmanageable when she consumes anything with red dye #5. ...just a thought and a starting place for you. Going back to basic food groups, unprocessed foods, and no sugar (including juice) may help. :grouphug:

[caedmyn]

I have done two different ways. Part of it is what works for YOU and part what works for your kiddo. Basically, you can be very loose with a brick wall on what kiddo may and may not do or you can be VERY strict about what to do. Examples:

 

***With ds, when he was little, he HATED holding my hand. However, I had to keep him safe. So we implemented "armslength." In bigger areas, he had to make sure he could see me, I could see him. But then armslength was practiced regularly so he came running to that. This is the loose method.

 

***With C, I am very strict with the rules because he thrives on knowing EXACTLY what he can do. So sitting at the Kingdom Hall, he sits in a certain seat in a certain way (there actually is a second position as no one can sit still for an hour and a half, imo). He can only do X or Y while sitting there. At the convention this summer, he was better behaved than kids double his age who had been Witnesses all their lives though he had lived with us two months at that point.

 

So you have to know your kiddo and how you are. And you may have to tweak along the way. Maybe he needs to be allowed one and only one position to pray within. Or maybe he could do X or Y or Z but has to pick.

 

But how do you get them to this point? I know more or less where I want him to be, but I cannot figure out how to get there. Church is another big battle. It's about all I can do to keep him generally sitting on his seat (as opposed to standing on it, getting up and down, etc) and from talking loudly.

 

 

The borderline/minimal sleep issue is the physical thing that sounds most in need of address and also possible to address. On the one hand, some kids simply don't need as much sleep as others, but since you see a difference in his behavior when he does get adequate rest, I think it's something to deal with. I'd look first at diet and exercise. First, if there's anywhere you can "clean up" his diet, go for that. Especially around the holidays, treats and junk food seem to be everywhere. It's likely not the root cause of anything, but he'll be better off if you can get all sugar, sugar-substitutes, artificial foods (coloring, flavoring), and caffeine out of his vicinity. ...

 

Then, exercise. He probably needs to be *physically*worn*out* on a daily basis. I'm not sure what resources you have available to you and what your climate is. But FIND a way to wear him out. For your sanity, for his... Check the local Y for swimming lessons (and tell the coach to *work* him) or toddler gymnastics, take him out "running" or biking with you every day, get him a mini-tramp and play loud music while he jumps / dances on it, do jumping jacks together... It may be enough for another thread. But find a way to run him 'til he's panting and red-faced every day.

 

Then start your bedtime routine a little earlier. Once you've been through the tooth-brushing and stories and prayers (whatever your routine is), tell him you love him, kiss him, tuck him in, and let him know that he may not get up again until morning. Then go sit in the doorway with your back to him and don't move or speak. If he gets up and comes to you, pick him up gently, say, "No. Bedtime." and put him back in bed. After that, no more speaking. Don't argue, don't negotiate, don't fight. Pick him up, put him in the bed, turn around and return to the doorway. ... The first night, you might have to return him repeatedly. For a strong-willed kiddo, it could even be dozens of times. Don't give in. Don't lose your temper. Just keep putting him back. Gently, quietly. Over and over as necessary.

 

Then do it again the next night. ... For most kids, 2-3 nights will be enough. If he's at the far end of strong-willed, well, it could be longer. But it's worth it. Tell yourself you're stronger and calmer and can outlast him without losing your temper (or your mind).

 

 

It's not food related. We mainly eat a whole foods diet and he has a bunch of food intolerances so we've already eliminated a lot of foods. We rarely eat processed foods and I can't say that I've seen any definite behavioral changes when he does eat processed foods. He eats very little sugar too (and no juice).

 

He has taken a long time to fall asleep since birth. When he does stay in bed he's frequently still awake an hour after the last time he got up, just laying in bed. And I tried the stay in the room thing with him shortly before he was two. I'd just sit there for hours and it never got any better--he never started falling asleep any faster. I did this for months.

 

I do need to think of ways to get him more exercise. Has to be indoors though because I cannot handle any more activities and our weather is nasty most of the time through at least April.

 

Offer your son choices all day long and see what happens, even silly choices. Red socks or yellow socks? Should we sing Old McDonald or Twinkle Twinkle? Yogurt or an apple for snack? The yellow cup or the blue cup? Do you want to leave in 5 minutes or 10 minutes? Do you want to skip to the car or walk to the car?

 

That might help, I will try that. I just need to avoid anything that can be a battle because he WILL turn it into a battle if he can.

 

 

This isn't meant to be scary to the OP, but we are considering having the 7.5 year old tested for ADHD and Aspergers. On the bright side, he's profoundly gifted, which can also contribute to this kind of behavior, and he is very functional other than his total lack of impulse control. (At three, though ... sheesh. Let's just say I called them the "terrorist threes" -- like the terrible twos, but worse -- for a reason ... until I had a second child and realized not every toddler acts that way.)

 

 

I don't think this is an issue for him at all. He seems to have normal impulse control & ability to focus (for a 3 YO). He's super active but it's a very controlled energy, completely directed at whatever he wants to do at the moment. It's not just random movement for the sake of movement if that makes sense.

 

If I remember correctly, you're also the poster who asked for advice on how to teach your 3yo to not run away from you in public. From what I remember from that thread, you said that he doesn't run away from your dh and you know you haven't spent enough time training him because you are sleep deprived and busy with your other kids and house. In your OP, you mentioned that he doesn't exhibit these behaviors to the same level with your dh.

 

Have you asked your dh why he thinks your little guy behaves better for him than for you?

 

Many 3yo need pretty constant supervision which is good becuase it forces you to work with him and spend that time training him. I get being tired. I get having other children. I get high intensity, needy children. Truly, I get all that. I live it. Mothering can be difficult, exhausting, and painful. I have many days in which I would like to bury my head in the sand. Every day I spend not addressing the kids' issues are days that we don't make forward progress. They more I poor into them, the more I get back from then.

 

DH thinks he's a perfectly normal child and that they all behave like him. He spends a lot of time telling me that I'm too hard on him and he'll outgrow behaviors like hitting and running away. Also, DH is a big guy and can be very intimidating and I think that gives the kids a little extra incentive to listen to him. I think half the problem is that I go back and forth on how I parent because DH is always giving me a hard time about something, so I back off and then DS's behavior gets even worse.

 

It is not that I have not spent a ton of time training him. He seems to need about three times more time & energy that I give him and I don't know where it's going to come from.

 

So what I noticed about your post, and again, completely NOT judging you, is there seems to be alot of negative reinforcement happening. You've listed several things you do to correct/punish him, but I wonder what you do as positive reinforcement? For example, if you need to use the bathroom, how about asking him to sit right next to the door (maybe keep a basket of toys right there) while you do that, and if he does , he gets a treat. I had to learn to do this myself. I had to remember to always give him good praise for the good things he did, not matter how little, so that he began to learn that it makes Mommy happy when I do good things, versus I get Mommy's attention when I do bad things.

 

Sleeping..my son would refuse to go to sleep, wake up numerous times every night, and be bright eyed and bushytailed in the a.m....ugh! I needed him to get into a nice deep slumber so I could. Essential oil, lavender, was HUGE for us. I sprinkled it on his pillow, his blanket and rubbed a bit on his chest with a carrier oil (almond oil). Every night. Within a few days, his sleeping pattern was completely different! He actually slept!!! Eventually, I moved away from the lavender oil, and now at 8, he sleeps like a normal human without any assistance, lol!

 

I have some lavender oil and I will try it. I would be thrilled if changing his sleep pattern were that easy.

 

I do need to be more positive with him. He does seem to respond better to positive reinforcement, though even with that he'll go along nicely for a couple days and then about the third or fourth day he goes right back into Mr. Defiant mode and I cannot figure out what I did differently than the previous two days.

[abbeyej]

Don't know if this has been mentioned or not...but food allergies or sensitivities can cause behavior problems. I have a friend whose sweetie pie daughter becomes absolutely unmanageable when she consumes anything with red dye #5. ...just a thought and a starting place for you. Going back to basic food groups, unprocessed foods, and no sugar (including juice) may help. :grouphug:

 

I mentioned food allergies above, but yes, they were absolutely a part of the issue when ds was 3. He was *mostly* a very sweet child who wanted to obey, but when he lost it, he *really* lost it, and the rages could go on for hours. He *knew* he was out of control, but couldn't calm himself down. Yes, various efforts at discipline and direction helped, but it wasn't completely something we could deal with until right around his 4th birthday, when he ended up in the hospital with an anaphylactic reaction and we finally got a referral to an allergist and the testing he needed. We had tried elimination diets in the past, but he was allergic to So Many (otherwise healthy, nutritious) foods that we had never gotten rid of enough of them at once to see a real difference.

 

I don't know that that's an issue for the OP. That's why I mentioned it along with "if you have any other reasons to suspect food allergies". I've rarely seen a child with true food allergies whose *only* symptom was behavioral. For us, there were definitely physical symptoms -- it's just that until they became life-threatening, the doctor basically ignored them. Once we addressed them for physical health, we were able to deal with the behavioral issues more completely. (Honestly, I think it may just have been an issue that ds spent the first 4 years of his life in varying levels of discomfort / pain -- things that will make anyone more irritable and less flexible.)

 

But yes, my experience has been that food allergies *can* play a role in behavioral issues. Fixing them won't substitute for calm, consistent discipline. But sometimes they can make the difference between that calm and consistent discipline "taking" and not.

[caedmyn]

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but I've read many places (and it works for my boys) that if you put them to sleep EARLIER, they'll still sleep until they're "pre-programmed' wake-up time.

 

 

So, as a basic guideline, your 3yo needs at LEAST 11 hours of sleep at night, PLUS a nap until about age 5 (of, I would assume, at least one hour), or at LEAST 12 hours of sleep total INCLUDING a nap. And these are *minimums*. So you're looking at a minimum recommendation of 12 hours of sleep per 24 hours, UP TO 14 hours of sleep per 24 hours.

 

 

He actually goes to bed at 7:30 when DD does but he won't go to sleep. Should I put him to bed even earlier than that?

 

I would agree that he needs 12 hours of sleep in 24, but of course the problem is actually making that happen. He naps anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 hours a day.

 

Have you heard of Raising Godly Tomatoes? They have a free book you can read on the site and a message board, too!

 

I've read it...several times. I keep trying to implement but it seems like I just end up spanking and spanking and it doesn't get any better and we both end up really frustrated. The message board isn't accepting new members, unfortunately.

[MegP]

It is not just about spanking-it is about tomato staking, too. She does let people on the board if you know someone who is a current active member.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I have four sons. Three-year-olds can be exhausting! My oldest son was sober as a judge at three, but my second son had to be peeled off the ceiling fan and rescued from the roof. We became really good friends with the local fire department. Thankfully they didn't judge us, they'd seen it all before.

 

My suggestion: Never mind the nasty weather. Get some raincoats, anoraks, boots, or whatever the weather requires, and get that boy outdoors and moving for a couple of hours every morning. Go out again after supper, and bedtime will be much easier! My busiest boys still need that fresh air and large muscle movement, even as teenagers.

[*********]

He actually goes to bed at 7:30 when DD does but he won't go to sleep. Should I put him to bed even earlier than that?

 

I would agree that he needs 12 hours of sleep in 24, but of course the problem is actually making that happen. He naps anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 hours a day.

 

Well, of course you can't *make him go to sleep. Wouldn't that be nice sometimes. :tongue_smilie:

 

I feel your pain caedmyn. I've been through it before with my boys; they seem to go in cycles. 'Everything's a season' is one of my favorite mantras. Reminds me to both enjoy the good while I have it, and bear with the not-so-good for the time. :001_smile:

 

So if your boy is going to bed at 7:30, but not falling asleep until 9:30, and getting up at 6:30, plus taking a 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hour nap per day, that means he's sleeping 10 1/2 to 11 1/2 hours per day. Kinda skimpy sleeping for his age.

 

The best thing I have found, and others have mentioned it, is to tire them out during the day. I know here in MI, it is hard in the winter sometimes to get the kids as much physical activity as they need, but we get creative. An indoor trampoline and scooters in the basement are things we have/do use. Just plain ol' playing outside in the snow is tiring, too. At three, I would suggest finding him safe places to climb/explore. Find what works for your family. It does make a difference around here. And I have two, uh, *quirky* boys. Moose has diagnosed sensory issues, and Zee has struggled in the past with transient tic disorder as well as anxiety.

 

Physical movement is important for these types of little guys. Wear them out. They'll be better off for it.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

For indoor play, I used The Out of Sync Child Has Fun for suggestions. Anything under the heading of 'vestibular motion' was a hit for my wildest boy. We actually had a swing and a slide in the living room for awhile.

 

I know you said you've explored food allergies. My son never calmed down at all until he was diagnosed with celiac disease. When we went gluten-free I was able to stop a lot of this extra work.

[Parrothead]

But how do you get them to this point? I know more or less where I want him to be, but I cannot figure out how to get there. Church is another big battle. It's about all I can do to keep him generally sitting on his seat (as opposed to standing on it, getting up and down, etc) and from talking loudly.

 

I'd work on the most pressing issues first and realize that it will be an ongoing process.

 

For instance in church don't worry about the wandering and the standing on the seat. Work on the talking loudly. Put your dh at the end of the pew (row) near the aisle and yourself in the middle a bit with the kids in between. Work on keeping your ds (and your other children) engaged in appropriate behavior. Let them eat special in church only Cherrios or grapes, play with small in church only cars or other small toy, and look at special in church only books. It might also help if you engage him while he is playing. Push a car toward him. Point to the pictures in the book. You probably won't get much out of church for the next little while, but he will learn how to behave appropriately.

 

Safety issues need to be dealt with. Let him out of his car seat last and put a harness on him so he does not run away. If he knows how to get out of his car seat, get a different one.

[2squared]

But how do you get them to this point? I know more or less where I want him to be, but I cannot figure out how to get there. Church is another big battle. It's about all I can do to keep him generally sitting on his seat (as opposed to standing on it, getting up and down, etc) and from talking loudly.

 

I can only tell you what I did when my difficult child was 3yo and I was a stressed out, tired mom with a 1yo and two older kids. I hit a wall and knew I had to change my parenting for this child. I started by smiling at him, giving him lots of hugs, and spending time with him. I kept him with me nearly all day long. I talked to him, really talked to him. I enjoyed him. We laughed and played and read books. After a couple days of enjoying each other, I was able to re-set my brain. I was able to see him with joy rather than with frustration, and I was ready to get to work. I could tell he felt relieved to get out from under the my constant pressure and negativity.

 

I started small. I had a 1yo at the time, so I kept the two of them near me all day long. We first worked on listening to me. When we transitioned from one part of the house to another, we went together. We held hands sometimes, sometimes I carried one or the other, and sometimes we just walked together. I engaged with the kids when we got to our destination so they felt rewarded for listening and staying with me. If I had something to do, we did it together. Everything was together so they would get in the habit of listening to me. We laughed a lot, hugged and tickled, and my housework was s-l-o-w. I had the 3yo "help" me teach the 1yo how to pick up, how to come when called, etc. This short period of time was really a turning point in our relationship.

 

My difficult child really wanted to please me. He is just wired differently. He's kinda a square peg in our family. I had to learn how to meeet him where he is, and once he felt truly connected to me, his behavior changed. I still have to parent him differently. I still have to spend more time and energy on him. I still have to give him more and different than I give the others. But, we came through a tough period fairly successfully.

 

I also have to post a disclaimer....I remember when my 7yo was about 4yo and I posted somewhere about some of his behaviors. Everyone smiled at me and told me I was experiencing my first boy after a complaint first-born daughter. I remember shaking my head at the computer screen and thinking that's just not right. My boy seemed "more" or "different." Well, I was right. My 7yo is a HFAspie with some sensory issues. So, if you think something is more or different with your little guy, follow your instincts. I parent my HFAspie much differently than my difficult child which is yet much different from how I parent my daughters. Flexibility is not my strong suit, but I must be flexible to be the mother my kids deserve.

Edited December 31, 2011 by 2squared

[Mommyof4ks]

Don't know if this has been mentioned or not...but food allergies or sensitivities can cause behavior problems. I have a friend whose sweetie pie daughter becomes absolutely unmanageable when she consumes anything with red dye #5. ...just a thought and a starting place for you. Going back to basic food groups, unprocessed foods, and no sugar (including juice) may help. :grouphug:

 

:iagree: My very laid back son becomes a monster after eating dyes or too much overly processed food. Sugar does not affect him, but even a few dyed m&ms will send him over the edge.

[Pamela H in Texas]

You asked how we got to the point that the boys did well.

First, I had to determine which direction they needed (do only X and Y OR a wide boundary with a safety plan) THEN it:

 

was practiced regularly

 

When my kids were 2 and 4, we lived on a LONG col-de-sac. People seemed to think 50 mph was a reasonable speed down that street. Additionally, we had a bayou on the other side of the lot next to us. I had some physical issues at that time and just could not run after my kids. Add to all this that we took in four more kids all under 3 (fictive kin foster situation and one babysat kiddo). So I decided the boundaries for the kids outside. I kept them a bit stricter at first. And we practiced them. We would walk up to the boundary and turn around and walk back. We'd jump turn at the boundary. We'd ride the trikes to the boundary. We would run circles within the boundary. We'd do ring-around-the-roses closer to the boundary, careful not to go over. We'd practice some more. Each time we went out we practiced. At first, I stood or sat near the boundary. If a kid chose to test it, they chose to get a stricter boundary to practice then stay within. We kept it fun, but there was a lot of practice.

 

I would do similarly with anything. I try to keep it light and fun, but we will have to practice if we struggle with something. If we really needed the help, then we got it. If we needed the consequence instead, we got that too.

 

The day after TGing break, Victoria decided she couldn't get ready for school. I was pretty patient that day (probably shouldn't have been). The second day, she was TWENTY minutes late to school (when I had an appointment to be at with her brother) because she was so incapable of getting ready. The second day, we practiced getting ready for school, making sure she knew each step (she has a picture schedule) and could do each step (of course, she had been doing it since August so I knew she could). One aspect she was struggling with was tying her shoes so she practiced tying her shoes. Now, if she truly was struggling with tying her shoes, she got to practice so she wasn't struggling with that. If it was a ploy, she learned that the consequence of the ploy got her practice in that area.

 

Anyway, so practicing IS a consequence, but we really try to keep it friendly and relevant. Just as we practiced the boundaries for the driveway (and btw, I did this with my kids at my mom's house recently so it is still a method I employ) in fun ways (games, races, etc), I do similarly with shutting rather than slamming the hallway gate, tying your shoes, or whatever the case may be.

 

Do you do a Bible study with the kids at home? That could be a time you could practice church behavior. Be *very* short with it at first. Then work it up. My boys can't make it through a Christian meeting (what we call church) without pottying so when they've done really well for awhile, I'll take them out to potty, praise them, etc. That also gives them a chance to stretch their legs so they can do well when we go back. Also, does your church have a pattern so they know exactly what will happen when? Ours does. But if not, does your church have a program for the session? When we go to assemblies, we mark off on the program so we can see where we are in the day (we also mark so they can see where songs, lunch, going home, etc is). What can he DO during church? My kids have the own Bibles (we are *really* fast about finding our own reference then helping the kids find it themselves). They also can take notes (the notes depend on age/ability). Most three year olds could do tally marks for key words if not write down letters copying from your notes. They may also copy key words. Then there are things like "toe olympics" and "tongue aerobics," ways they can wiggle without being distracting. We practice cues (good job, awesome, oops, try again, etc) also.

 

Anyway, key word is PRACTICE. We set them up for success :)

[bbmom]

Try The Nurtured Heart Approach-this has made a world of difference for both my 2 boys (3 and 6-with my 3 year old sounding A LOT like yours) as well as several other families I have suggested it to-even working with teens/pre-teens. For the sleep issues, I would try an even earlier bedtime and melatonin if needed.

[beaners]

I think my nearly 3 year old daughter is pretty similar. It is so hard to do, but what works when she starts heading into "the zone" is to be as sugary sweet as possible. I try not to threaten or raise my voice. I'm not patient enough to pull it off all (or most) of the time. I know it works better for her than when I get upset, but it's really tough to say something sweetly when the behavior is out of control.

 

My saving grace is that my daughter still sleeps in a crib equipped with a crib tent. I will tell her that sometimes we all need time to get settled down, and since what I am trying to do to help her isn't working, I'm going to let her have some time to herself to get back under control. And I put her in her bed that she can't get out of. I do give the option of snuggling under a blanket on the couch first, but sometimes she really does need the time to herself. It also really helps her settle down at bedtime to have those very definite boundaries for her bed.

 

I can't help in the church area, because I am absolutely shocked that we had an uneventful trip for our last service. I told me daughter that church was a time where she had to sit quietly, we practiced for 2 minutes on the couch at home, I let her hold the hymnal at church...and she was fine. I'm still confused about how that happened. Before that, we had the slithering down onto the floor, trying to crawl under the pews, trying to kick, wanting to switch between parents every two minutes...everything. It was slightly better when we hadn't rushed out of the house, but it was like a switch flipped last time. I'll pray you have the same experience. ;)

 

I do offer choices, but quite frequently the choice is between doing it herself and me doing it for her. She also knows that if I count and hit a number, I'm going to do whatever I said right then. Some days we have a lot of shrieking until she remembers that I follow through every time. Again, having a crib I can safely leave her alone in saves both of us from "frustration" spankings. Some people are horrified that I put her in her crib as a punishment, but from my own perspective I'm giving her the tools to calm herself down when it's obvious that other people aren't going to be able to help her. I never say that she is going to bed because she was misbehaving. I say she is going to get back under control.

[Terabith]

My ds wasn't particularly bad because we helped him be successful. We found what worked for him. But yes, we parented intentionally because he was THREE and he had some special needs and he was THREE.

 

And if you had a life like my current 3 year old has had, you'd need a LOT more direction than average to be successful also. Many people wouldn't have survived what he has been through. I certainly don't expect that he just magically learned to be a perfectly behaved little person.

 

Pamela, I admire your posts so much! I wish you could come to my house and do a Supernanny type consultation! Sigh..... :-)

[Amy in NH]

I can only tell you what I did when my difficult child was 3yo and I was a stressed out, tired mom with a 1yo and two older kids. I hit a wall and knew I had to change my parenting for this child. I started by smiling at him, giving him lots of hugs, and spending time with him. I kept him with me nearly all day long. I talked to him, really talked to him. I enjoyed him. We laughed and played and read books. After a couple days of enjoying each other, I was able to re-set my brain. I was able to see him with joy rather than with frustration, and I was ready to get to work. I could tell he felt relieved to get out from under the my constant pressure and negativity.

 

I started small. I had a 1yo at the time, so I kept the two of them near me all day long. We first worked on listening to me. When we transitioned from one part of the house to another, we went together. We held hands sometimes, sometimes I carried one or the other, and sometimes we just walked together. I engaged with the kids when we got to our destination so they felt rewarded for listening and staying with me. If I had something to do, we did it together. Everything was together so they would get in the habit of listening to me. We laughed a lot, hugged and tickled, and my housework was s-l-o-w. I had the 3yo "help" me teach the 1yo how to pick up, how to come when called, etc. This short period of time was really a turning point in our relationship.

 

My difficult child really wanted to please me. He is just wired differently. He's kinda a square peg in our family. I had to learn how to meeet him where he is, and once he felt truly connected to me, his behavior changed. I still have to parent him differently. I still have to spend more time and energy on him. I still have to give him more and different than I give the others. But, we came through a tough period fairly successfully.

 

 

:iagree: This is how it worked with my difficult child.

[twoxcell]

In our house we call that the horendous 3's:lol:. I thought my ds was going to be a mass murder at age 3, and it was almost like a light came on over night when he turned 4. I think the most important thing is healthy diet, proper exercise, enough sleep, patience(toughest one for me), and consistency. Hang in there:grouphug:.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Sleep is VERY important for my kids, especially my high needs ones. My 5yo just cannot control himself when he is overtired or sick. He goes to bed at 6:30pm and gets up at 6:30am. Consistent waking times and bedtimes have been very important. He easily falls asleep at 6:30 because his body is tired then and is used to falling asleep at that time.

 

Another issue is ME. My attitude totally shapes our whole family's day. If I am quiet and calm, no matter what my kids do, it helps my kids to be that way, too. When my 5yo is upset/causing trouble/etc. what he really needs is more love from me. Though what he's doing is inappropriate, he's really telling me that he needs more from me.

 

I see from your signature that you're a Christian. Pray to God to help you be the mother that your ds needs. Pray for help being calm and loving and consistent. Without Him, you can't do it. But with Him, anything is possible.

 

ETA: I also saw in another post that you aren't getting outside much. The weather is yucky here all winter, too, but unless it is extreme I send the three older kids out every day. If the weather has been really bad for more than a day or two I definitely notice a change in their behavior.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Lisa in the UP of MI

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I can only tell you what I did when my difficult child was 3yo and I was a stressed out, tired mom with a 1yo and two older kids. I hit a wall and knew I had to change my parenting for this child. I started by smiling at him, giving him lots of hugs, and spending time with him. I kept him with me nearly all day long. I talked to him, really talked to him. I enjoyed him. We laughed and played and read books. After a couple days of enjoying each other, I was able to re-set my brain. I was able to see him with joy rather than with frustration, and I was ready to get to work. I could tell he felt relieved to get out from under the my constant pressure and negativity.

 

I started small. I had a 1yo at the time, so I kept the two of them near me all day long. We first worked on listening to me. When we transitioned from one part of the house to another, we went together. We held hands sometimes, sometimes I carried one or the other, and sometimes we just walked together. I engaged with the kids when we got to our destination so they felt rewarded for listening and staying with me. If I had something to do, we did it together. Everything was together so they would get in the habit of listening to me. We laughed a lot, hugged and tickled, and my housework was s-l-o-w. I had the 3yo "help" me teach the 1yo how to pick up, how to come when called, etc. This short period of time was really a turning point in our relationship.

 

My difficult child really wanted to please me. He is just wired differently. He's kinda a square peg in our family. I had to learn how to meeet him where he is, and once he felt truly connected to me, his behavior changed. I still have to parent him differently. I still have to spend more time and energy on him. I still have to give him more and different than I give the others. But, we came through a tough period fairly successfully.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[kathkath]

Try The Nurtured Heart Approach-this has made a world of difference for both my 2 boys (3 and 6-with my 3 year old sounding A LOT like yours) as well as several other families I have suggested it to-even working with teens/pre-teens. For the sleep issues, I would try an even earlier bedtime and melatonin if needed.

 

Yes this http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Nurtured-Approach/dp/0967050707/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325357897&sr=8-1

 

my 5yo ds was very much like this and i also have a 3yo ds who is a "normal 3yo" busy boy. There is a difference and I totally get what you are talking about. Some kids do NOT respond the way others do.

[RoundAbout]

Read Playful Parenting regardless of what else you read. It's a really nice way to deal with the behaviors...although sometimes I find myself struggling!

 

:iagree:

 

I absolutely love this book.

 

Also, I am really big on exercise for young kids. I think many people waaaaaaay underestimate the amount of physical energy young boys need to expend. Just to give you an example when my son was 3.5 he was regularly riding 10-15 miles on our trail-a-bike pedaling the whole way and he did a 20-miler before turning 4. I definitely remember periods where I had to spend 2 solid hours on the playground or running him around just to keep my DS on an even keel. My son was never quite so difficult as you describe but we have our moments but I've noticed that every day with lots of exercise and decent sleep is a fabulous behavior day here.

[sewingmama]

You all had 3yo dc who behaved this way? :blink:

 

I had one 3yo that acted that way and that child has special needs. That child still acts that way at almost 6yo despite every attempt to control it because it is not a simple issue of bad behaviour.

 

Maybe it is more then just being 3 -maybe you should look into an assessment if nothing else is working.

[kalanamak]

You all had 3yo dc who behaved this way? :blink:

 

No, we didn't, but if he hadn't gotten 3 hours outdoor run run run and another couple hours of swim swim swim every day, we might have had it. I didn't want to find out, so we ran that guy into the ground -- and we had no screaming, punching, defiance, etc. I could see him winding up, and outside he and papa would go.

 

I certainly remember *all day* hikes with my parents and my pack of brothers. It was their technique for order in our energetic family.

[justasque]

1. Outside play, every day.

 

2. Intellectual stimulation. Does he need things to take apart, or to build with, or to figure out? Challenge his brain. (I do not mean formal schoolwork at his age.)

 

3. Choose your battles.

 

4. Model appropriate behavior.

 

5. Think "teach" rather than "discipline".

 

6. Look to the long term rather than getting caught up in battles over little things.

 

7. Learn "active listening" techniques so that he can communicate why he is feeling the need to misbehave. Do not underestimate the importance of this communication - it will lay important groundwork for the teen years and beyond.

 

8. Recognize the blessings of a strong will. This is a child who has what it takes to resist peer pressure as a teen, and to do world-changing work if he so chooses as an adult. He will, of course, need to learn how to communicate gently and to advocate for what he wants without being obnoxious. That's where your parenting comes in.

 

9. I like "Raising Your Spirited Child".

 

10. Get outside help/screening if you feel out of your depth or suspect disability issues.

[twoxcell]

You all had 3yo dc who behaved this way? :blink:

Not exactly as the OP posted although all children are different. My oldest two certainly had their moments at 3, and I'm sure if I had typed about some of those in a post it would have sounded pretty bleak. I didn't read anything in her original post that sounded all that horrific. I mostly just heard a tired momma in a moment of desperation. I honestly thought my oldest dd had SPD when she was 3. I even read a list of symptoms from a website and she met a high percentage of the criteria. Now if this is how he acts 24/7 without a break than there may be much more to this then simply being 3, but only she would know since we aren't there. I'm not even close to a parental or child development expert though.;)