KristenR Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Does anyone else despise this book???? I just found my dd5 reading it to my dd3 and URGH-- if it wasn't for the fact that they were reading on their own volition :001_smile: and bonding nicely over laying together :DI would have snatched it out of their hands.:glare: I get that they make the fish vain and full of himself on the first page but instead of a moral of narcissism and the perils of over-inflated vanity they come up with this: "Give away your shining scales. You won't be as beautiful, but you will have friends." :confused: How they heck did this board-book ever sneak into my home library?!?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punchie Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I can't stand it either. I hate that it says you shouldn't be special/unique - you have to be like everyone else in order to be liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiebird Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Okay, I'm glad it's not just me. I have a huge problem with that book, but I actually couldn't pinpoint why! You've articulated what's been bugging me about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 You're not alone. The book is an unmitigated disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I never really thought about it LOL. But I do agree with those reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Hmm, I never thought it said you shouldn't be unique, but rather that you shouldn't be selfish. It is rather unique to have something so pretty to give away in the first place, right? They aren't knocking that. I see it as more put your talents to use if you want them to mean anything. I do like Swimmy better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 It's not selfish to keep one's scales instead of giving them away to buy others' affection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I've always wondered if some nuance of language or culture was lost in the translation. I don't particularly enjoy this book either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I hate all the rainbow fish books. Bleh! But I had never analyzed it so deeply!!! Lol. My other hated book is Pinkslicious or Purplelicious or really any "licious" book. Those are some of my least favorite picture books! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I can't stand it either. I hate that it says you shouldn't be special/unique - you have to be like everyone else in order to be liked. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amydavis Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Glad to see that it's not just our family! We definitely teach our children to be giving; however, it is the message that you can't be different, or even have something that others do not have. We must all be the same, no one can be special in any sort of way. Totally rubs me the wrong way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Does anyone else despise this book???? I just found my dd5 reading it to my dd3 and URGH-- if it wasn't for the fact that they were reading on their own volition :001_smile: and bonding nicely over laying together :DI would have snatched it out of their hands.:glare: I get that they make the fish vain and full of himself on the first page but instead of a moral of narcissism and the perils of over-inflated vanity they come up with this: "Give away your shining scales. You won't be as beautiful, but you will have friends." :confused: How they heck did this board-book ever sneak into my home library?!?!?! :iagree: I was disturbed the first time I actually read it. beautiful pictures, but I don't want it in my house. It reminds me of the "take from the haves and give to the have nots." it's not a case of the fish took anything from the "have nots", just that he is selfish for keeping his scales to himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in GA Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I nickname it "The Socialist Fish," although that was not my original idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 The poor fish not only has to give away what is unique and special about himself in order to be accepted, but he has to do so in a way that smacks of self-mutilation. Nice example for young girls who are going to be body consious soon anyway. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassy Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I always thought it was a bit feeble, but I could never really get that worked up about it. We have it in a waterproof version that can be read in the bath :D. It looks pretty. Cassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I have been hoping that the 'real' meaning was lost in translation. What a yucky book. :tongue_smilie: My sister bought my kids a nice set one year and I was surprised at how much I hated the entire series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 It's bad, alright, but not nearly bad enough to make me froth at the mouth. That distinction is reserved for the Giving Tree. Bleh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohru Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Read it once when ds was little and it was awful. There is no Rainbow Fish in our house. And the Giving Tree bothers me too. But I want to like it, just can't. yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Can't stand it here either (or the Giving Tree). It seems like a weird message to be trying to give kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCrazyMama Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 :iagree: I was disturbed the first time I actually read it. beautiful pictures, but I don't want it in my house. It reminds me of the "take from the haves and give to the have nots." it's not a case of the fish took anything from the "have nots", just that he is selfish for keeping his scales to himself. :iagree:Our library has it, I have let the kids check it out but I despise it.:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I've always wondered if some nuance of language or culture was lost in the translation. I don't particularly enjoy this book either. They have the German version at my library. Next time I go I'll look at it and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Another Socialist Fish hater, here. It makes me think of those who comment whenever someone has long, lovely hair that surely they will cut it off and donate it to Locks of Love. (Nothing against Locks of Love; a wonderful charity - just that I don't think having beautiful, long hair means surely you have to cut it off and give it to someone with no hair. It's okay to just keep your beautiful hair on your own head.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I nickname it "The Socialist Fish," although that was not my original idea. :lol: that's exactly what it made me think of, glad someone said it. dh has a raving socialist of a nephew, so I try to be "diplomatic" so he will listen to what is being said (and maybe learn something, but I don't hold my breath) instead of shooting messanger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I can't stand it either. I hate that it says you shouldn't be special/unique - you have to be like everyone else in order to be liked. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I like it. :D I don't think he's buying friends. I just think he's keeping all the pretty for himself, and is a stuck up jerk. He feels happier when he gives part of himself away. I don't have a problem with that. The wording of the "wise" one is problematic, tho, I'll grant you that. And I have a pet peeve about something else related, which happens with Rainbow Fish, too--I hate when picture book authors make "sequels" that are really just lazy money makers. Best example--If You Give a Mouse a Cookie and all its permutations. Blech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Well, I never thought they meant people should rip body parts off in order to be socially acceptable, LOL. I saw the rainbow scales as a symbol. I mean, the fact that the rainbow scales would be an impossibility in real life kind of gives that away, or so I thought. The scales make the fish think "I'm better than everyone" and eventually that becomes an empty feeling. "How can I use my gifts to help others" then arises. Anyhoo, that's how I'd explain it to my kid. It's funny how this conversation seems to contrast with some others we've had here. I'm not a socialist by any stretch; I believe in personal accountability AND freewill charity (and probably flat tax). But at the same time, for myself, there's only so much I can do with "more" wealth. I tend to give it away before I obtain anything that would make people notice my material gifts. So maybe that's why this message doesn't bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristenR Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 Well it's nice to know so many others feel the same way. I had heard so much about Rainbow Fish that I was left feeling :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funschooler5 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I hate it too, and I finally snuck it out of DD6's room last year. She hasn't noticed...too many other books on her shelf. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Another Socialist Fish hater, here. It makes me think of those who comment whenever someone has long, lovely hair that surely they will cut it off and donate it to Locks of Love. (Nothing against Locks of Love; a wonderful charity - just that I don't think having beautiful, long hair means surely you have to cut it off and give it to someone with no hair. It's okay to just keep your beautiful hair on your own head.) :willy_nilly: My daughter gets these comments about her beautiful hair all the time! And then people argue or try to shame her when she says no. "But sick people neeeeeeeed it! You can grow it back! Ah, don't be like that! DOn't you want to help?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punchie Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I hate it too, and I finally snuck it out of DD6's room last year. She hasn't noticed...too many other books on her shelf. :lol: I need to do this too. And w/the Giving Tree as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlbuchina Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 It's not selfish to keep one's scales instead of giving them away to buy others' affection. :iagree: This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I hate it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 They have the German version at my library. Next time I go I'll look at it and see. I can't wait to hear if it sounds the same in the original too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJoy Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 :willy_nilly: My daughter gets these comments about her beautiful hair all the time! And then people argue or try to shame her when she says no. "But sick people neeeeeeeed it! You can grow it back! Ah, don't be like that! DOn't you want to help?" "Sick people can get artificial wigs. What is really needed is your kidney!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 :willy_nilly: My daughter gets these comments about her beautiful hair all the time! And then people argue or try to shame her when she says no. "But sick people neeeeeeeed it! You can grow it back! Ah, don't be like that! DOn't you want to help?" That's really unfortunate. Not to brag, but I had some seriously lovely long hair in my younger years. I had never heard of Locks of Love; maybe they weren't around yet, but I am sure I would have heard this a lot. People should not be badgered about cutting off their lovely hair just because it's lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Inna* Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 "Give away your shining scales. You won't be as beautiful, but you will have friends." :confused: :iagree: :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 :willy_nilly: My daughter gets these comments about her beautiful hair all the time! And then people argue or try to shame her when she says no. "But sick people neeeeeeeed it! You can grow it back! Ah, don't be like that! DOn't you want to help?" Yes! Dd10 just got that from someone at church the other day. We just looked at the lady somewhat in shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 :lol: that's exactly what it made me think of, glad someone said it. dh has a raving socialist of a nephew, so I try to be "diplomatic" so he will listen to what is being said (and maybe learn something, but I don't hold my breath) instead of shooting messanger. I am a bleeding heart liberal and hate this book. Crap is still crap regardless of the subtext. Just sayin':lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think The Giving Tree is sad but don't have the same view of it at all because I see it as more of a cautionary tale--not an admonition to be like the tree. The Rainbow Fish, on the other hand, is overtly didactic and preachy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photo Ninja Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Yup. I hated the underlying message in Rainbow Fish. Sharing is right and good, but being coerced or forced to give away what makes you unique in order to be liked or have friends is a wrong message. People shouldn't have to all be the same in order to be friends, and having something that is uniquely yours is not selfish or wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I never actually read the Rainbow Fish but am now glad I did not. As for The Giving Tree. I used that book to teach my children about selfish behavior and being appreciative for what you get and to not behave like the boy. I also taught my children that the man in the yellow hat from the original Curious George was a poacher, so maybe I am not the best one to be dispensing my wisdom on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funschooler5 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 On the subject of annoying children's books...anybody read The Diggingest Dog? I loved this book as a kid, but when I read it now, I think realize a jerk the kid is in the book. The poor dog doesn't know how to dig, and when he finally learns how he gets yelled at by his owner and all of the other dogs hate him. Weird message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Agree about the Dig. Dog book. Was my fave as a kid, now it gives me a bad feeling. Sort of like Santa being a jerk in Rudolph. Blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 HATE HATE HATE Rainbow Fish...ended up throwing it away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Yes! Dd10 just got that from someone at church the other day. We just looked at the lady somewhat in shock. It's a weird situation, isn't it? Especially in church. That's really unfortunate. Not to brag, but I had some seriously lovely long hair in my younger years. I had never heard of Locks of Love; maybe they weren't around yet, but I am sure I would have heard this a lot. People should not be badgered about cutting off their lovely hair just because it's lovely. Brag away, dear! :) It doesn't bother me! "Sick people can get artificial wigs. What is really needed is your kidney!" So funny! Thanks, ladies! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Woo hoo! I am so glad to know I am not the only one that hates that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I get that they make the fish vain and full of himself on the first page but instead of a moral of narcissism and the perils of over-inflated vanity they come up with this: "Give away your shining scales. You won't be as beautiful, but you will have friends." :confused: Is that the exact quote in the English? I should have gotten out an English copy too. It does not say the same thing in German. "Schenke jedem Fisch eine deiner Glitzerschuppen. Dann bist du zwar nicht mehr der schönste Fisch im Ozean, aber du wirst wieder fröhlich sein." literal translation: Give each fish one of your glittery scales. Then you will admittedly no longer be the most beautiful fish in the ocean, but you will be happy again." In reading through the whole thing in German, I have to say that I have a different take on it now. In the beginning, the text twice refers to the "Schuppenkleid." This is a compound word - "schuppen" means scales, and "kleid" means dress. This suggests to me that his glittery scales are not his actual scales, but some kind of extra set of scales that he has for some reason. So in giving them away, it would be more like giving away a piece of clothing that one is wearing than the self-mutilation some of you were mentioning. Rainbow Fish (RF from now on) is quite a clueless jerk in the beginning. The other fish want him to play with them (ie, he could have had friends keeping his shiny scales) but he just swims by them and makes his scales glitter even more. When the little blue fish asks RF for one scale, RF yells at him and scares him (RF's unspoken thought might be: things are more important than other people). The little fish tells the other fish what happened, and they all decide to have nothing to do with him. They turn away when RF swims by, so at this point, no one is appreciating his beauty at all, because they know that underneath it lies a selfish, rude person (possible message: beauty is only skin-deep). So then it says, "What use to RF were his marvellous glittering scales, if they from no one were admired? [literally LOL] Now he was the loneliest fish in the whole ocean!" Now, remember, he's lonely not because the other fish are jealous of him - they wanted to play with him - but because of how he treated them all. He made it clear that his beautiful scales were more important than them. He shows that he still doesn't understand when he complains to the starfish, "But I am beautiful. Why doesn't anybody like me?" So the starfish suggests he talk to the octopus. I already said above the literal translation of what the octopus tells him. The octopus sees right to the heart of the matter - the scales are what's standing in the way between RF and happiness. In fact, this part reminds me of the gospel story where the rich young man comes to Jesus and asks what he must do. Jesus tells him to sell all he has and give it to the poor, but the young man doesn't do it. RF's reaction is also not positive: "Never! How could I be happy without them?" Suddenly the little blue fish appears and asks again for a scale. RF hesitates and then thinks that he could give him one little scale that he wouldn't even miss. So he gives him the smallest scale he has and says, "Here, I give this to you! Now leave me in peace!" He still is being quite the jerk! The little fish thanks him and says, "You're kind!" RF feels peculiar, and watches the little fish swimming happily for a while. Soon he is surrounded by the other fish, who all want a scale too. He shared his scales left and right, and through this he was made more and more cheerful. The more the water around him glittered, the better he felt. Finally he had only one shining scale left, and he was happier than he had ever been before! Again the other fish repeat their invitation from the beginning "Come play with us!" and this time he does. As I was typing this I was thinking of Ebenezer Scrooge also - he realizes that by giving away his money, helping people and sharing what he has, he makes other people happy, but he also becomes happy through it. I was telling my daughter somebody's comment on here, something like "You have to give away what makes you special to have friends," and then she looked through the book and suggested that perhaps the message was, "you have to share what makes you special to have friends." Kind of like not hiding your light under a basket. RF learned to be generous and loving and through that became happy. I don't really have a problem with that message LOL. But, again, since it's been years since I read the English version, I don't know if that's how it comes across. Perhaps it's time for a new translation! Translating, even a picture book, is really hard work. Even in this brief summary, I had to decide what words to use when there really is no way to convey it in English. For example, when RF talks to the starfish, he says, "Ich bin doch schön." Simple sentence, right? Ich means I, bin means am, schön means beautiful. It's that word doch that is difficult. Doch can mean many things and doesn't really have an equivalent. It's that word that shows the level of his cluelessness - he thinks everyone should be admiring him all the time, but no one's paying attention to him. He doesn't understand why. Above I decided to have him say, "But I'm beautiful" but "still" could have been a possibility "I am still beautiful. Why doesn't anybody like me?" but neither of those choices conveys what "doch" does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) :willy_nilly: My daughter gets these comments about her beautiful hair all the time! And then people argue or try to shame her when she says no. "But sick people neeeeeeeed it! You can grow it back! Ah, don't be like that! DOn't you want to help?" I'll donate my hair if you donate a kidney ;) Sick people need it, you have 2 healthy ones, don't you want to help????? :D edited to say: I didn't read through the thread, so I didn't know this had already been posted. Edited December 31, 2011 by cin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hate it. :iagree:I dislike this book on so many levels, I tossed it when my kids were little. :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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