Does my son really need a laptop?

[Iucounu]

In your mind his motives are super clear. But you do not have all the facts to work with at this point so it is still just your opinion and should not be presented as fact.

It's fact, and actually has been supported; it's not necessary for the OP's son to have specifically a Windows laptop to learn programming. But of course you're allowed to disagree on any basis, reasonable or not-- I'm not trying to shut down your use of this discussion board.

[elegantlion]

It's fact, and actually has been supported; it's not necessary for the OP's son to have specifically a Windows laptop to learn programming. But of course you're allowed to disagree on any basis, reasonable or not-- I'm not trying to shut down your use of this discussion board.

 

Sounds like you know computers, but what is your experience in dealing with 15 year old boys? Just curious. :bigear:

[Jen500]

I would have him start programming on the mac....then if he really has an interest after a few months I'd get him his own computer...probably a desktop because you can get more for your money.

I'd find out more about what his goals are and then decide about the mac vs pc issue.

This is what I'd do w/my kids, so YMMV.

[amy g.]

I'm wondering the same thing. My home schooled 15 year old says knowledge of visual basic is very common with his friends. I can say for sure that he hasn't been influenced by relatives or middle school teachers.

 

If the op's son wanted a computer for gaming, it would be expensive, but that is not what he asked for.

 

Ds also said that anyone claiming to know that the op's son doesn't want it for programing might be trying to show off for the homeschool moms just a teeny bit.

 

Of course how can a 15 year old know anything about what another 15 year old might be interested in if his opinion conflicts with the "expert"?

[Starr]

Wow, this went wild. If your child is going to program and mess around much with a computer you might not want him on yours. :D Mine is now connected to the family desk top, talks to me when not spoken to, and is controlled by ds from afar...

[Iucounu]

(I don't want to beat a should-be-dead-by-now horse, so I won't post further in this thread.)

 

VBForums is the #1 web discussion board for VB programmers. Check out the dates on those threads! There simply is no culture of teenaged VB programmers that exists.

[Catwoman]

I'm not sure why anyone is questioning the motives of the OP's son. If he says he wants to learn programming, why would anyone doubt that? :confused:

 

It makes perfect sense to me that he would want his own laptop for that purpose.

[gardenmom5]

Don't most colleges have lists of computers? I don't know. I just assumed he'd need a new one because of how quickly technology changes.

 

He has one picked out that he really wants. He knows the specs and all. I wouldn't dare try to pick one out used! I wish though!

 

the only requirement for computers at school was to be able to run certain software so they could link to the schools system. (some people even had macs.) even then, if a student didn't have a computer, they could go to one of the computer labs. the school bookstore did have lists of computers, but those were "supposedly" a deal to buy them through the school. re: not required.

 

I'd buy one. make sure you know what languages he will need to study/plans on studying, and that the computer will handle those well.

 

eta: I"d also pick up some older machines from thrift stores for him to take apart and study the hardware. my son had a blast doing that, and learned alot. (and it was hysterical how "eek" he was when 1dd surpassed him in computer languages and hardware.)

Edited December 9, 2011 by gardenmom5

[Pretty in Pink]

I'm not sure why anyone is questioning the motives of the OP's son. If he says he wants to learn programming, why would anyone doubt that? :confused:

 

It makes perfect sense to me that he would want his own laptop for that purpose.

 

Right?! :iagree:

[Mommyof4ks]

Wow, this went wild. If your child is going to program and mess around much with a computer you might not want him on yours. :D Mine is now connected to the family desk top, talks to me when not spoken to, and is controlled by ds from afar...

 

Wow, who knew this would be such a hot topic. :001_huh:

 

My dh is a programmer, and honestly I would not want my kids practicing on our home computer. Dh writes programs for our Mac with ease, but he has been programming for 15 years. His work laptop is old, but it has all the software he needs and it can run windows 7. He writes programs for hand held devices that his company uses, so he needs a lot of software which takes up a lot of room. Depending on what your son wants to do with his programming skills, it might take up too much space on your Mac anyway. Basically, I vote to get him the laptop if you can, and there is a chance that he can modify it to work for college too. My dh adds memory and changes out parts on our computers, and it is so much easier to do that with a PC.

[Annie Laurie]

My 15-year old is learning VB so I don't see it as a odd choice for a teen. But perhaps that is because her dad is a programmer. And she would like a laptop of her own as well which I would love to be able to accomodate.

 

My 17 yr old taught himself Visual Basic, Basic, and C++. My 11 yr old has learned some Basic, with his brother's help. So I don't see it as odd either.

[mktkcb]

No, he doesn't need a laptop. Have you not partitioned your hard drive to install windows? Then he can have his windows. My ds is doing visual basic programming this year, and all he has to is switch to the "windows side". Just get a copy of windows xp to load over there, and you're good to go. It's not hard to do. Or windows 7 or whatever.

[Jennifer in MI]

This really took a turn! I cam back from a party and saw seven pages!

 

This particular son does not have a manipulative bone in his body. Really. I read him some of my post and a few of the responses and he was shocked! Honestly, he has explained why he needs his own computer before in all the technical terms, but my mind just glazes over. I have learned to trust and believe what he says. I aske him again and some of his answers are below.

 

 

QUOTE=Iucounu;3395874]Wow, that was fast! More "confirmation" that what I know based on real-world experience to be impossible is actually true-- that kids everywhere are programming in, and knowledgeable about, Visual Basic. I guess that one can take the word of someone with a computer science and programming backround with a decade-plus of experience, or one can scoff. In the real world the OP's son is not wanting to program in VB; he just wants a Windows laptop so he can play games more easily. What experience in teaching beginning programming does your DS15 have, out of curiosity? I've actually been an instructor in the past.

 

Fixed! :tongue_smilie: I posted extra info later to explain why there are so many languages listed-- it goes back to Microsoft's focus with the .NET platform and a bit of history (for instance, COBOL.NET came about because the #1 language for businesses everywhere was COBOL for decades). I had to run earlier or I would've posted at more length.

 

Even C#, which has good syntax if taking an object-oriented approach to teaching beginning programming, exists only because it was intended to be Microsoft's answer to Java; the syntax is quite Java-like (note that Microsoft came and implemented J# too, a Java clone, but it has always been quietly discouraged or emphasized as mostly a tool for porting over Java applications).

 

Visual Basic really is not the best choice because it has clunky syntax, and there are better choices, not because it can't be used to teach programming. When I hear about a kid learning VB as their first language, I suspect a family member (or much more rarely a stuck-in-the-mud public school teacher in a computer lab) who prefers VB because it was easy when they learned it back in the day, and they never used much else. And while Microsoft has tried to push .NET for education and scientific programming, they didn't make much headway there either. The .NET platform exists for purely business reasons, and people typically choose it because they're learning business programming.

 

Now in the OP's case, it's not true that VB, .NET or anything else where Windows would be helpful is needed for a course at the high school, or her son would have mentioned it and she would have too. He definitely didn't get the idea of VB from his friends, as quite close to 100% of kids independently learning programming these days are using other languages. He might have gotten the idea from a family member, but I think that would've been known to the OP too. The main option remaining is that the OP's kid wants his own machine, and he prefers Windows, probably because he can also use the laptop to game and he has gamer friends.

 

I do appreciate the info here. But, really, my ds is definitely not a gamer. We have a bunch of games in the house and he isn't interested.

 

His reasons for wanting his own PC:

 

He want to be able to dual boot between linux and windows 7. He put Linux on a virtual machine on our Mac and it ran very slowly. He wasn't able to get the android emulator to work on that. (he wants to develop apps and software for android.). He wants to learn java first, for the apps. (yes, he says, he knows that he can do that on a Mac, but he can't write the android system itself on the Mac.)

 

He also wants to be able to tinker with a computer, and doesn't want to do that on our home computer. He has listed a bunch of other technical stuff that Im not going to be able to type up right now! I am too tired! See? I zoned out!

 

He says if he were a gamer, he would need a discrete graphics card and the computer he wants does not have that. (He is feeling a little defensive!)

 

You really can't make that assumption based upon the information the OP gave. Maybe they have a budget and PCs are cheaper, maybe he's being considerate and knows he has a better chance of getting it sooner.

 

Maybe this is his form of teenage rebellion, my parents are Macs, I will be a PC. :tongue_smilie:

 

This is part of it! He likes to be able to customize his stuff. He jail broke his android and has all sorts of stuff on it. It was cheaper to do that with an android!

 

Okay then. :blink: Maybe the boy just wants his own computer so he doesn't have to share with the family.

 

Also part of it. He really likes to change out his phone and he's constantly doing things to our family computer and wants to do more.

 

Wow, who knew this would be such a hot topic. :001_huh:

 

My dh is a programmer, and honestly I would not want my kids practicing on our home computer. Dh writes programs for our Mac with ease, but he has been programming for 15 years. His work laptop is old, but it has all the software he needs and it can run windows 7. He writes programs for hand held devices that his company uses, so he needs a lot of software which takes up a lot of room. Depending on what your son wants to do with his programming skills, it might take up too much space on your Mac anyway. Basically, I vote to get him the laptop if you can, and there is a chance that he can modify it to work for college too. My dh adds memory and changes out parts on our computers, and it is so much easier to do that with a PC.

 

Thank you. This was something I hadnt thought of! He could mess up the computer! Better he do it with his own!

 

FWIW, he is getting the laptop!

[Mommyof4ks]

Glad to hear he is getting his own computer. He will really appreciate it, and he will feel more comfortable tinkering with it than the family computer. I can see my 8 yr old asking the same thing in a few years. Of course it will be he and dh's thing, because computer stuff goes over my head lol.

[elegantlion]

FWIW, he is getting the laptop!

 

:party: I shall inform my son. His reply to this thread included a lot of technical stuff that made my brain hurt too.

 

ETA: My husband is 51 and he still has standing orders that he can not use his mother's computer when we visit. He always wants to change something, so she banned him.

Edited December 10, 2011 by elegantlion

[LibraryLover]

I am at the point where I think everyone in this family needs their own laptop. It's worth it for the school work alone! Even my 12 year old has work she needs to do! If I didn't have my iPad and iPhone, I'd hardly get a chance to go online at all!

 

So glad to hear you're getting him one!

[KAR120C]

All he wants for Christmas is a laptop. He is 15 and in 10th grade and wants to start teaching himself programming. Our family computer is a Mac and he is telling me he needs a PC. I forget the type of programming he wants, but he says he cannot do it on the Mac. My problem? He leaves for college in 2 1/2 years and we will have to get him another computer then!

 

So, can he really not learn Programming on the Mac?

For many of the same reasons as yours -- He wants to do stuff with it (yes, even VB - I had no idea that was weird... with my own programming background and two decades of experience) and I want him off mine. We're an all-PC family anyway, so it wasn't an issue of OS, just keeping his stuff all in one place and not risking my work machine to a kid messing around with things!

[Murphy101]

I am at the point where I think everyone in this family needs their own laptop. It's worth it for the school work alone! Even my 12 year old has work she needs to do! If I didn't have my iPad and iPhone, I'd hardly get a chance to go online at all!

 

So glad to hear you're getting him one!

 

Amen!

 

As a side note suggestion of what *I* would do...

Cause you obviously need yet another opinion, right?:tongue_smilie:

 

I would give ds MY computer and go buy ME a new laptop! :auto:

 

And no one is allowed to mess with my main computer either. Dh and I met in computer programming classes 21 years ago and I still won't let him touch my computer either. What is it with men that they have to mess with our gadgets?And he and the boys would all swear up and down that they either didn't do anything or they woud try to convince me the mess is actually an improvement.:glare:

 

Well when my main computer crashes because of their tinkering, there go all my home schooling lessons and links and records and photos and usually considerable cash ... And my good attitude. So the only way they get to touch my tech is if I pass it onto them when I get new tech!:D

[littleWMN]

I've been reading the most bizarre threads on here lately.

 

OP, I hope you figure out a way to get him a computer. I'd check out thrift stores or craigslist first.

[Teachin'Mine]

So glad to hear he's getting the computer! :)

[momofkhm]

All he wants for Christmas is a laptop. He is 15 and in 10th grade and wants to start teaching himself programming. Our family computer is a Mac and he is telling me he needs a PC. I forget the type of programming he wants, but he says he cannot do it on the Mac. My problem? He leaves for college in 2 1/2 years and we will have to get him another computer then!

 

So, can he really not learn Programming on the Mac?

 

I just asked dh who is "in the biz". When the company buys a computer for dh, they buy a Mac b/c that's what dh wants. All his work stuff can be done on a Mac. That being said, when I asked dh, he said anything directly related to a pc cannot be programmed on a Mac. Gaming programming is generally better on a PC.

 

On the 2 college visits we've taken so far, both colleges have support for PCs and Macs. I guess I don't understand why you would have to buy him another computer then. Can he just take the one you buy him now, if you do buy him one now?

[Iucounu]

FWIW, you can dual-boot Linux on a Mac-- there's no need to run it in an emulator, and it wouldn't be slow if simply booting into it. In addition one can run an Android Emulator directly in Mac OS X. Also, as stated before, you can boot into Windows on a Mac just fine.

 

... but all that said, if you're buying the explanation and are happy with your choice, that's all that really matters. And as I wrote before, I can certainly understand a kid wanting his own laptop. Cheers!

[Heather in Neverland]

I vote yes. :D

[*LC]

I will disagree with the others. I wouldn't buy my 15-year-old a laptop.

 

We were in a similar boat a few months ago. Instead, I bought the whole family a laptop this fall with the understanding that my high schooler has first dibs on it for schoolwork. It has worked for AP computer science. (Of course, my kids know they don't get gifts that cost that much.)

 

They will get laptops when they go to college. As I type this, I may get their laptops the Christmas of their senior year in high school to spread out the college expenses some. Of course, I will have to check out how specific their intended colleges on the type of computer they have.

[KungFuPanda]

He sounds like a neat kid. I'd get it for him. Clearly, he's not a gamer so that argument is shot.

 

I thought we were the only ones who kept a Linux box running in our house. I'm not even sure what's special about it. Everything else is Mac. DH is the mathematician/computer geek in the family. I just need to access the Hive :D

[LucyStoner]

 

... but all that said, if you're buying the explanation and are happy with your choice, that's all that really matters.

 

Condescending much? Why does this matter so much to you to prove a kid you and I have never met is devious and/or a gamer?

 

It may surprise you but not all teenage boys are into gaming or go out of their way to lie to their parents. My nephew has never contemplated programming anything (he wants to study history and poly sci in college, I know he needs a backup plan) and he would get a lot of use out of a laptop.

 

I think a laptop is a fine present for a 15 year old whose parents are able and willing, programming novice or not.

Edited December 12, 2011 by kijipt

[catz]

I am at the point where I think everyone in this family needs their own laptop. It's worth it for the school work alone! Even my 12 year old has work she needs to do! If I didn't have my iPad and iPhone, I'd hardly get a chance to go online at all!

 

So glad to hear you're getting him one!

:iagree: For a homeschooled 15 year old interested in programming a laptop is a great gift and will free up your machine for you. I have a software engineering background (as does my dh) and FWIW both of us prefer programming environments on pcs. My 5th grader has been playing around with programming for a long time (currently playing with python) and I would not want him doing it on my computer. The kids have their own laptop we'll likely update soon.

 

I'm typing this on my iPad so I like apple products too. :D

Edited December 12, 2011 by kck

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

In my little world:

 

1) A 15 yo having their own computer would not be abnormal.

 

2) In my house the owning of that computer would depend on the child. There would be no such thing as a "private" computer. Parents get access to tech devices on demand in this house. If needed I would go so far as to restrict usage to certain rooms, limit use time or internet time as needed. Not because I think teens are bad but because some just don't have the ability to properly monitor or limit themselves at that age-which is why it depends on the individual kid.

 

3) I don't think I'd want a teen practicing programming on the family computer if I could afford to avoid it. I see the potential for loosing valued documents, photos or files to be high. I also see the possibility of reducing usage for others or limiting access needed by other family members for being huge.

 

4) I'd have no guilt about picking up a used computer and repairing it or replacing a few components over getting a brand new computer. I'd also have no trouble making it an only holiday or birthday gift. A computer is a huge gift.

 

I'm no programmer so I can't advise PC vs Mac in this case. Just speaking of extra computers in general.

[Jennifer in MI]

FWIW, you can dual-boot Linux on a Mac-- there's no need to run it in an emulator, and it wouldn't be slow if simply booting into it. In addition one can run an Android Emulator directly in Mac OS X. Also, as stated before, you can boot into Windows on a Mac just fine.

 

... but all that said, if you're buying the explanation and are happy with your choice, that's all that really matters. And as I wrote before, I can certainly understand a kid wanting his own laptop. Cheers!

 

Ugh. Really. I am not "buying" his explanation. I believe him. I read him what you wrote and he knew that that could be done. He's not here right now, but he said something about not just wanting to write apps (that can be done on the Emulator), but he wants to learn to write the system language itself. (I may have messed up that explanation. I told you I glaze over.) He also told me that if he has to do it on the Mac, there is a possibility that he could lose things on our hard drive - like the entire system. He doesn't want that stress. When he told me he needed a PC for programming, he admits he left out the technical details because he knows I just don't hear them.

 

FWIW - we don't allow anything with internet on them to leave the first floor of the house. We are VERY strict about that. He does NOT want this computer for anything BUT programming. I swear.

 

I do have to wonder though what your experience with teenagers is? Do you have a teen? Does your teen manipulate people? Lie? This has not been my experience with my teens. At all. All those questions are rhetorical, btw. I don't really want to know - I just have to wonder. I wish you could take me at my word that my son is not a manipulator. He has never lied to me. I trust him. My question wasn't only if he could program on our Mac (obviously, that can be done), but whether there were other things I hadn't thought of when considering a computer purchase.

 

Condescending much? Why does this matter so much to you to prove a kid you and I have never met is devious and/or a gamer?

 

It may surprise you but not all teenage boys are into gaming or go out of their way to lie to their parents. My nephew has never contemplated programming anything (he wants to study history and poly sci in college, I know he needs a backup plan) and he would get a lot of use out of a laptop.

 

I think a laptop is a fine present for a 15 year old whose parents are able and willing, programming novice or not.

 

Thank you. I'm loving my boys' teenage years!

[Julie in CA]

... but all that said, if you're buying the explanation and are happy with your choice, that's all that really matters.

:blink: Wow.

[Jen500]

 

FWIW, he is getting the laptop!

 

Hope he has fun with it! :001_smile:

[catz]

 

I do have to wonder though what your experience with teenagers is? Do you have a teen? Does your teen manipulate people? Lie? This has not been my experience with my teens. At all. All those questions are rhetorical, btw. I don't really want to know - I just have to wonder. I wish you could take me at my word that my son is not a manipulator. He has never lied to me. I trust him. My question wasn't only if he could program on our Mac (obviously, that can be done), but whether there were other things I hadn't thought of when considering a computer purchase.

 

I suspect that poster has no experience with self motivated teenagers and/or homeschooled kids. The tone was beyond condescending.

[ChandlerMom]

Other than maintaining legacy VB code on a PC, all the programming I do for work is on a Mac. I program in C/C#, Java, and Fortran. Even the legacy code we're talking about recoding in a platform-independent form since more and more of our users aren't using PCs.

 

Underneath the smooth Mac interface is a hardcore UNIX beast. Serious computing work isn't done on Windows (big PITA), it's done on OSX/Linux/UNIX systems.

 

There is a HUGE open-source community using the Mac since OSX is basically UNIX. Best of all, all the developer software you need (source code editors, emulators, including for testing apps you write for the iPad/iphone/etc, compilers) are FREE. You can register as a developer with Apple to access their developer tools (all for FREE and without a big "developer vetting process ala MS"). Yep, 100% FREE. Being UNIX, there's cool utilities like VSN to make sure you have the most current source code. Search for "Terminal" on your Mac to access the UNIX core.

 

As long as your Mac is intel-based (anything in the last 5-10 years), you can even put windows on it. But looking 10 years down the road, who's going to be programming on a PC? What's come out from MS since .NET (which likely won't even be supported by the time your ds gets out of college)?? IME, programmers are moving away from Windows to develop platform independent programs (and internet based), not towards them.

 

ETA: I should qualify this that my exp is among people doing computationally intense programming, not mass-market commercial software development. But whether you NEED a PC to learn to program? No. Plus, it's a changing field, so better to focus on the skills rather than platform and see what is the hot thing when he gets into upper level college work. ;)

 

And NOT saying another computer wouldn't be nice, but gotta say I HATE programming on a laptop. Screen is too small. I don't like programming on anything less than 21" so I can see full routines and the UI at the same time. I only program on my laptop (Macbook Pro) when I have no other choice (traveling). Just saying'....

Edited December 12, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[amy g.]

Hooray!

[vonfirmath]

Jennifer: Your son reminds me a lot of myself. I STILL remember the year (7th/8th grade) that my parents got me a Commodore 64 that year for my birthday despite the fact my dad was out of work and they were financially strapped. That was the best gift I got growing up.

 

I did play games on it. but I also used Trio to write novels and bought an Adventure construction set to create games. I did all of my basic programming on a different computer because I never figured out how to use the Commodore 64 for that. But one of the first things I bought with my own money was a laptop and Microsoft Access (a database program) and I taught myself how to create databases and program it (in a language that became Visual Basic for Applications). And that because the first long term job I had, programming databases.

 

I took a class at the University of Washington about programming your own games that used the Environment of C++ (and thus I got Visual C++ and painfully taught myself how to program in that)

 

One of my favorite languages to program in (Freshman/sophmore year of college) was assembly. Though I'm afraid I've lost everything I learned at the time.

[amy g.]

[ocelotmom]

Having not read all 10 pages of replies....

 

Mac is JUST FINE for learning to program. It is not strictly focused on consumer electronics - it's a fully featured UNIX operating system. UNIX has been the platform for most server-level application development continuously since the 1970s. Many computer professionals (programmers, system administrators, and so forth, not just graphics designers) use macs for their personal computer.

 

There may be specific (generally Microsoft-developed) languages which are either PC-specific or less fully implemented on the mac-side, but from a standpoint of learning programming theory, there are plenty of options available for Mac.

 

These books are all aimed at kids/teens, get great reviews, and use languages available for free on all the common platforms (Mac, PC, or Linux). The ones that teach Python and Java are teaching languages used in real-world development environments:

http://www.amazon.com/Hello-World-Computer-Programming-Beginners/dp/1933988495/

http://www.amazon.com/Invent-Your-Computer-Games-Python/dp/0982106017/

http://www.amazon.com/Scratch-Programming-Teens-Course-Technology/dp/1598635360/

http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Programming-Teens-Course-Technology/dp/1598634461/

http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Video-Games-Evil-Genius/dp/0071497528/

 

However...

 

If he wants to learn programming, having a computer of his own, rather than one shared by several other people, is a very good idea, both so he has more freedom to learn about the OS and hardware without risking messing things up for others, and because the process of learning to program is likely to result in monopolization. And PC hardware is less expensive.

 

If our family was in your situation, we'd get an used (or new) computer of some sort that fit in our budget (laptop or desktop, whichever seems more appropriate for personal circumstances), a linux (free UNIX-based OS that can run on PC hardware) install disk that worked with whatever hardware platform we chose, and tell him to figure it out.

[Iucounu]

My question wasn't only if he could program on our Mac (obviously, that can be done), but whether there were other things I hadn't thought of when considering a computer purchase.

 

Let's not forget how we arrived here:

 

If you can afford $300+ now, I'd get him a laptop; he may wind up using the machine for college just fine, and in the meantime should get plenty of value out of it. Prices have continued to drop year to year, and you can get an amazing deal on a new laptop in a wide range of configuration and size options if you shop around. Fatwallet.org has regular laptop specials that are worth checking out, and you should also check out the outlets at Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc.

 

I am just very frugal and try hard not to spend money if I don't have to.

 

Another reason I was thinking of not doing it was that I would really like to get a combo gift for both boys and my dh. A home gym. (Weights, bench, new tv on the wall, medicine balls, etc etc etc.) But, to do both the gym and a laptop is out of my comfort range price wise. And, an added benefit is that I can use the gym too!

 

... and, of course, the post that got us started:

 

All he wants for Christmas is a laptop. He is 15 and in 10th grade and wants to start teaching himself programming. Our family computer is a Mac and he is telling me he needs a PC. I forget the type of programming he wants, but he says he cannot do it on the Mac. My problem? He leaves for college in 2 1/2 years and we will have to get him another computer then! So, can he really not learn Programming on the Mac?

 

The answer remains: he can. If you wanted to ask a different question, you should have asked that one. You said you didn't want to spend the money unless you had to; and you don't have to, especially as he isn't planning to program in a Windows-specific language (unlike the hotbed of teenage VB programmers that apparently surround this forum) even if Windows weren't able to be run on your Mac. As I said, as long as you're happy, that's the main thing.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Iucounu

[Julie in CA]

Is there a particular reason why you've chosen to be antagonistic? I don't understand tearing people down rather than helping build them up. :confused:

Perhaps just let it drop? Your perspective is clear--we all understand what you think--not sure anything constructive can come from furthering this branch of the conversation. :001_huh:

[Iucounu]

Is there a particular reason why you've chosen to be antagonistic? I don't understand tearing people down rather than helping build them up. :confused:

Perhaps just let it drop? Your perspective is clear--we all understand what you think--not sure anything constructive can come from furthering this branch of the conversation. :001_huh:

I don't see insisting on correctness as antagonistic. I'm one of the few giving correct advice in answer to the OP's actual question, without misstating anything factual. Is there some reason you feel the need to act as forum police?

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't see insisting on correctness as antagonistic. Is there some reason you feel the need to act as forum police?

 

Not letting it go and insisting on having the last word is against board rules. And when the vast majority of people in a thread can see this and feel you're being antagonistic... Well, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

But you know this, because it isn't your first time to go after something like a pit bull. You are not as obtuse as you are pretending to be. ;)

[HiddenJewel]

I don't see insisting on correctness as antagonistic. I'm one of the few giving correct advice in answer to the OP's actual question, without misstating anything factual. Is there some reason you feel the need to act as forum police?

 

Part of the issue is that you are insisting that your point of view is the correct one and anyone who disagreed with you received derogatory digs.

 

I live with a programmer so I am well aware that the world of a programmer can be very black and white. But it is important to remember that there is a human element to this world and graciousness in sharing your viewpoint can be very helpful.

Edited December 12, 2011 by HiddenJewel

[TravelingChris]

We gave our kids who were programming their own computers. We didn't want them using our main computer or our main laptop for programming or installing alternate systems (like linux). DD15 (in two days) will be getting a new desktop computer for Christmas. Since she already has a computer which she can use for ordinary things, it is specifically being bought so she can program on it easily. It isn't a gaming computer as her previous one isn't either. Gaming computers have special video cards and audio cards. None of our computers are set up for a gaming environment since no one living here now is a gamer. We just aren't. My dh plays Sudoku on his Droid phone. That is about as much gaming as we do. I think older dd plays Solitaire, sometimes. I don't know why Iocunu is insisting on certain motivations of the OP's son. Plenty of posters have said the Mac environment is not the best for programming of the sort he wants to do. Plenty of the rest of us said we prefer our children to program their own computers and not shared ones. A third motivation could be that son realizes that Apple products cost much more and has decided to focus on more affordable PC products. Whatever. There are plenty of great reasons to get him a computer and the only reason against is a made up straw man argument.

 

Hope your son enjoys your present, OP.

[LucyStoner]

I dunno, I think your son should sent iucuono a thank you card. I am ready buy him a computer after reading all that so it is no wonder you are.

 

FWIW, a PC laptop seems like a better gift to me than a gym in part because home gyms tend to get neglected and go unused (ahem, not that I have any experience with flaking out on home exercise equipment) but mainly because it seems that it is not much of a gift for him if he is leaving home in a couple of years and he did not ask for it.

 

Also, because home gym stuff does get ignored, it tends to be among the easiest things to find super cheap on Craigslist or even Freecycle. If you go that route, you may get a 2-1 holiday!

Edited December 13, 2011 by kijipt

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I dunno, I think your son should sent iucuono a thank you card. I am ready buy him a computer after reading all that so it is no wonder you are.

 

FWIW, a PC laptop seems like a better gift to me than a gym in part because home gyms tend to get neglected and go unused (ahem, not that I have any experience with flaking out on home exercise equipment) but mainly because it seems that it is not much of a gift for him if he is leaving home in a couple of years and he did not ask for it.

 

Also, because home gym stuff does get ignored, it tends to be among the easiest things to find super cheap on Craigslist or even Freecycle. If you go that route, you may get a 2-1 holiday!

 

Excellent advice! Last time we looked for a fancy weight machine we were able to get a decent one for less than $50 and it was like new on Craigslist. You might keep a little aside and see what you can pick up for a gym in the next few months. There is some statistic about how people give up New Years resolutions by a particular date and there is a drop in gym attendance and increase in second hand home fitness equipment sales.