Enabling vs. Helping

[Veritaserum]

Soo...MIL called last night to ask dh if he would be willing to give money to his sister. To recap, we have given tens of thousands of dollars to dh's parents. They lived with us for three years, which was a miserable experience due to MIL's lack of boundaries. I said ENOUGH and they moved out in April. Prior to that I had to throw a fit to get dh's brother, brother's wife, and their baby to move out after living with us for ten months.

 

SIL and her husband are having financial troubles because her husband has been out of work since May. They have no kids. A year ago SIL went to part-time and she didn't pick up more hours when her husband no longer provided any income. Even now she won't pick up more hours. I don't know why. Her husband has been offered a job, but there's a lengthy background checking process prior to starting, so it could be another month or two before he starts.

 

Honestly, I'm not inclined to fork over more money to dh's family because they don't seem down due to poor circumstances only. They seem to choose it. In SIL's shoes, I'd pick up as many shifts as I could (she's a nurse and could easily get more hours). That's the logical thing to do if you're short on money and can increase your income by working more. But dh's family is the opposite of logical. All decisions are emotion-based. "I feel too stressed/tired/whatever to _____." My family is much more logical. If you want or need something, work as hard as you need to in order to get it. Yeah, it may suck. It may be hard. Do it anyway. That's life.

 

Anyway, MIL called last night to ask dh to give SIL money. She said she gave SIL money last month, but she can't this month. MIL is constantly rescuing her adult children from their own messes. Constantly. I think it has emotionally stunted them. Thankfully, dh is remarkably unaffected.

 

I told dh that my biggest concern is that I don't want this asking for money thing to become a dependent habit. It bothers me to help someone financially who could increase their income but chooses not to and then plays the victim. He acknowledged my concern, but is totally blind to the enabling that we've done in the past (BIL, MIL, SIL, FIL). He views it as simple charity.

 

I'll go along with it as a one-time thing because dh feels strongly about it, but it feels...wrong. Am I way off base to feel that way?

 

So done with the endless issues with his family.... :glare:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would get a promise from him that it really is a one-time thing. As in next month when they ask again, the answer is just "No." This would also depend on how much money we were talking about. Is it money that you can really afford to give away?

[Parker Martin]

No, I would not give money to a relative who was choosing not to support herself. I would definitely label that enabling. It is not helpful, and it is not charity. You'd be essentially paying the person to be a lout and making it harder for that person to take charge of his life. People aren't pets.

 

Charity is giving to someone or some cause in need. It doesn't sound like your relatives are in need.

[Carol in Cal.]

Given the history, I would say no. And I hardly ever do that. And I would say it pretty baldly, like, "We feel like we have already done enough." And I hardly ever do that either.

[Veritaserum]

I wondered about a gift card as well, but I don't know which bills in particular are an issue.... Dh wants to give a substantial sum. We can afford it if it is once. It would be completely unreasonable to give that amount more than once.

 

Since his family has terrible money habits (major credit card debt due to no budgeting), I worry about giving straight cash. It's not helping if they use that to go buy electronics or something instead of necessities or late bills. A gift card to a grocery store sounds like a good option. Maybe a gift card to a gas station chain as well. They could only buy food and gas with those instead of stuff they don't need.

[BigMamaBird]

I'm the first one to jump on the "Family helps Family" soap box. But if SIL is working and they have no children and there's no health issues complicating things, I'd step back. I mean, if there were children going without food or heat or if BIL had a heart condition or something, then they could use the help. But if it's two otherwise healthy, independent adults, I wouldn't stretch my own family too much.

 

But that's my own two cents.

[SonshineLearner]

I would probably ask for bills to pay for the amount you're willing to give. (so, 2 months mortgage payments, or something like that...) Just remember that no good deed goes unpunished, and when you start to give, they start to not like you. It's a no-win situation.

Another option is to give something like a Visa Card that you've received back. We just recently got one for a large rebate. If you happened to have something like this, you could say that you don't have disposable income/money to offer, but you hope that this $400 rebate could help... :)

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I don't know if you read my post about dh paying MIL's rent. We also are paying on a BIL's student loans that dh co-signed for and BIL is not paying. My adult sister is living with us because she hasn't done what she needs to do to finish her PhD. I so get where you are coming from.

 

DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY MONEY! If that woman is nurse, and has the potential to earn more money, let her figure out that that's what she needs to do.

 

Helping is what you do when someone is unable to do something himself. Enabling is what you do when you "help" someone who is perfectly capable of helping himself, but chooses not to.

[WTMCassandra]

No. Way. I agree with the "We've already done enough" approach.

[Mom-ninja.]

Nope, I'd feel the same as you. In fact, I do.

 

My sister and her dh are a similar case. They both recently graduated from college with BAs. While they were going to school they always talked about how broke they were. Well, dh and I were broke during college too. They acted like they were the only ones to be broke while going to school. Both received grants. Dh and I never did. :glare: So stop complaining to me. They had more money than I did while I was first going to school. I went to work *full* time to pay for school. Neither my sister or her dh did. They lived off the grant money. Now, they live off WIC.

 

Now they've graduated. My sister actually isn't working, but she had a baby. I support her staying home. Her dh on the other hand......:glare::glare:

 

He couldn't work during school because "he had to have time to study." Now that he's done with school, he "can't" find a job. Translate that to doesn't *want* a job. He's been offered jobs and he's turned them down. They were not the job he wants you see. He has a degree in math education. There is one particular school he wants to work at, and he has refused all other job offers. He currently works as part time job working one hour a day Mon-Fri teaching one class. He can't get another part time job, you see, because he needs time to "prepare" for his one hour a day class.

 

He is encouraging my sister to get a job working more hours than he does, yet he's not the one breastfeeding.

 

My mom is ALWAYS telling me that I HAVE to give stuff to my sister. I HAVE to give her all the clothes my boys grew out of for her baby. I HAVE to give her the toys they don't pay with anymore.

 

My parents are always sending them money. Always. They need new tires? My sister calls my parents.

 

My sister is 28 and her dh is 30. It's time for them to grow up already, and stop acting like they are 19 and just left home. They are parents now for goodness sake!

 

I think my dad is starting to get annoyed now too. He's fed up with hearing, "No, didn't take the job because......" for same lame excuse.

 

It annoys me that my mom *expects* me to give my sister money and things. She tells me it's my job as her older sister. :confused: I'm sorry, but when did older sister equate to financial supporter?

 

Oh, and my dh has returned to school. We don't get grants or any other type of aid. It's all from our pocket. His tuition is a lot, and yet you don't hear my mom understanding the financial burden we have. :glare:

 

When they come to visit, they actually bring a portable fridge, and ask for food from my house and my mom's house. My mom thinks it's cute. I think it's tasteless. My sister will go through my closet and ask me if I still wear certain items so she can have them.

 

Now, I love to give. I do. I love to give my sister clothes and stuff. However, I've reached a point now that I don't want to give her anything because it just enables their choices.

 

It's sad. I look at stuff from my closet and my boys' and would love to give it to her, but I wonder if I should give it to the local thrift store instead.

[LaxMom]

...

 

 

 

Honestly, I'm not inclined to fork over more money to dh's family because they don't seem down due to poor circumstances only. They seem to choose it. In SIL's shoes, I'd pick up as many shifts as I could (she's a nurse and could easily get more hours). That's the logical thing to do if you're short on money and can increase your income by working more. But dh's family is the opposite of logical. All decisions are emotion-based. "I feel too stressed/tired/whatever to _____." My family is much more logical. If you want or need something, work as hard as you need to in order to get it. Yeah, it may suck. It may be hard. Do it anyway. That's life.

 

...

 

I told dh that my biggest concern is that I don't want this asking for money thing to become a dependent habit. It bothers me to help someone financially who could increase their income but chooses not to and then plays the victim. He acknowledged my concern, but is totally blind to the enabling that we've done in the past (BIL, MIL, SIL, FIL). He views it as simple charity.

 

I'll go along with it as a one-time thing because dh feels strongly about it, but it feels...wrong. Am I way off base to feel that way?

 

So done with the endless issues with his family.... :glare:

The bolded would be my thoughts. I am disinclined to help those who choose to have "somebody else" do their hard work.

[Veritaserum]

I feel validated. :tongue_smilie: I think the best I'll be able to do with dh is to get him to agree to gift cards instead of cash. I'll work with him on the amount. He sees it as selfish to NOT help when asked. I see it as selfish to ASK when you can help yourself.

 

I would rather help my sister. Her dh has been out of work/minimally employed for a year. She has been working as much as she can and she runs a tight budget even with five kids. They are living mostly on savings, which they were prudent enough to have stored during years of plenty. She hasn't asked for help. I try to sneak it in as much as she'll let me because I like helping someone who helps herself.

[bookfiend]

So you hand them a big check right before the holidays, and they already have a history of poor debt managment and spending habits. How upset are you going to be if they spend the money on ... say a new, big, screen TV? When someone is able to work and refuses, they don't need help; they need a punch of reality.

[SKL]

BTDT. It is amazing how some people can make you feel like it's your fault they are hurting financially, even though you've already helped them a lot. And they make it incredibly hard to say no.

 

At some point, you have to say no anyway.

 

If it were a bank revolver loan, there would be a maximum beyond which it could not go. They would have to pay it down before they could tap into it again. Would it make sense to set a formal maximum for this relative? Then if they know they are at their maximum they won't bother to ask you for more?

 

I still think some members of my family may hate me for refusing to finance my niece's "dream" education. (After hundreds of thousands of dollars being gifted and tens of thousands being loaned to family!) I'll just have to get over it. At some point it's appropriate for me to look out for my own children's future. The chances of those people being there for my daughters when the time comes is slim, and everyone knows it.

[Veritaserum]

So you hand them a big check right before the holidays, and they already have a history of poor debt managment and spending habits. How upset are you going to be if they spend the money on ... say a new, big, screen TV? When someone is able to work and refuses, they don't need help; they need a punch of reality.

 

Yeah, I'd be furious. I'm going to tell dh gift card to a grocery store or nothing. Cash is too dangerous.

 

We gave the huge amounts of money to dh's parents because dh wanted to wipe out the massive credit card debt they'd carried for over twenty years. Guess who is back in debt again. :svengo: I never want to give them another dime. Dh wants to be their retirement. It's a mess.

 

I am bound and determined to not be a financial burden to my children and to teach them to take care of themselves.

[Retired]

Soo...MIL called last night to ask dh if he would be willing to give money to his sister. To recap, we have given tens of thousands of dollars to dh's parents. They lived with us for three years, which was a miserable experience due to MIL's lack of boundaries. I said ENOUGH and they moved out in April. Prior to that I had to throw a fit to get dh's brother, brother's wife, and their baby to move out after living with us for ten months.

 

SIL and her husband are having financial troubles because her husband has been out of work since May. They have no kids. A year ago SIL went to part-time and she didn't pick up more hours when her husband no longer provided any income. Even now she won't pick up more hours. I don't know why. Her husband has been offered a job, but there's a lengthy background checking process prior to starting, so it could be another month or two before he starts.

 

Honestly, I'm not inclined to fork over more money to dh's family because they don't seem down due to poor circumstances only. They seem to choose it. In SIL's shoes, I'd pick up as many shifts as I could (she's a nurse and could easily get more hours). That's the logical thing to do if you're short on money and can increase your income by working more. But dh's family is the opposite of logical. All decisions are emotion-based. "I feel too stressed/tired/whatever to _____." My family is much more logical. If you want or need something, work as hard as you need to in order to get it. Yeah, it may suck. It may be hard. Do it anyway. That's life.

 

Anyway, MIL called last night to ask dh to give SIL money. She said she gave SIL money last month, but she can't this month. MIL is constantly rescuing her adult children from their own messes. Constantly. I think it has emotionally stunted them. Thankfully, dh is remarkably unaffected.

 

I told dh that my biggest concern is that I don't want this asking for money thing to become a dependent habit. It bothers me to help someone financially who could increase their income but chooses not to and then plays the victim. He acknowledged my concern, but is totally blind to the enabling that we've done in the past (BIL, MIL, SIL, FIL). He views it as simple charity.

 

I'll go along with it as a one-time thing because dh feels strongly about it, but it feels...wrong. Am I way off base to feel that way?

 

So done with the endless issues with his family.... :glare:

 

well I have the same type of family except they bleed my parents dry and now my parents need my help. I just told my mom this thanksgiving if they gave another dime to my sibling who are both over 35 that I would not help her anymore.

 

It is enabling and I finally have got my mom to see it. She said she would not be giving my sibling anymore money and guess what my brother text me week later wanting money.

 

I hope you dh opens his eyes. I hate it but when someone keeps making the same bad decision the only way they are going to change is when they hit rock bottom. They aren't ever going to feel the consequence if people keep bailing them out.

 

Your sister-in-law needs to work and get them out of their finacial mess. They need to get a work ethic instead of a "charity" ethic which IMO is wrong with a lot of folks

[Veritaserum]

Nope, I'd feel the same as you. In fact, I do.

 

My sister and her dh are a similar case. They both recently graduated from college with BAs. While they were going to school they always talked about how broke they were. Well, dh and I were broke during college too. They acted like they were the only ones to be broke while going to school. Both received grants. Dh and I never did. :glare: So stop complaining to me. They had more money than I did while I was first going to school. I went to work *full* time to pay for school. Neither my sister or her dh did. They lived off the grant money. Now, they live off WIC.

 

Now they've graduated. My sister actually isn't working, but she had a baby. I support her staying home. Her dh on the other hand......:glare::glare:

 

He couldn't work during school because "he had to have time to study." Now that he's done with school, he "can't" find a job. Translate that to doesn't *want* a job. He's been offered jobs and he's turned them down. They were not the job he wants you see. He has a degree in math education. There is one particular school he wants to work at, and he has refused all other job offers. He currently works as part time job working one hour a day Mon-Fri teaching one class. He can't get another part time job, you see, because he needs time to "prepare" for his one hour a day class.

 

He is encouraging my sister to get a job working more hours than he does, yet he's not the one breastfeeding.

 

My mom is ALWAYS telling me that I HAVE to give stuff to my sister. I HAVE to give her all the clothes my boys grew out of for her baby. I HAVE to give her the toys they don't pay with anymore.

 

My parents are always sending them money. Always. They need new tires? My sister calls my parents.

 

My sister is 28 and her dh is 30. It's time for them to grow up already, and stop acting like they are 19 and just left home. They are parents now for goodness sake!

 

I think my dad is starting to get annoyed now too. He's fed up with hearing, "No, didn't take the job because......" for same lame excuse.

 

It annoys me that my mom *expects* me to give my sister money and things. She tells me it's my job as her older sister. :confused: I'm sorry, but when did older sister equate to financial supporter?

 

Oh, and my dh has returned to school. We don't get grants or any other type of aid. It's all from our pocket. His tuition is a lot, and yet you don't hear my mom understanding the financial burden we have. :glare:

 

When they come to visit, they actually bring a portable fridge, and ask for food from my house and my mom's house. My mom thinks it's cute. I think it's tasteless. My sister will go through my closet and ask me if I still wear certain items so she can have them.

 

Now, I love to give. I do. I love to give my sister clothes and stuff. However, I've reached a point now that I don't want to give her anything because it just enables their choices.

 

It's sad. I look at stuff from my closet and my boys' and would love to give it to her, but I wonder if I should give it to the local thrift store instead.

 

Ugh, that's what this BIL did, too! Dh and I were like :confused:. Take the job and keep looking if you hate it. You need income! You can't be too picky! He turned down job after job. Jobs that offered really good starting salaries for someone fresh out of school. After almost a year he finally took one. And then quit less than a year later to go to grad school (stipend). Failed that and was out of work again. Finally accepted a new offer, but it has the long background check issue.

 

What is wrong with people? Why do so many lack the gumption to take care of themselves? It's messed up. :cursing:

[bookfiend]

Yeah, I'd be furious. I'm going to tell dh gift card to a grocery store or nothing. Cash is too dangerous.

 

We gave the huge amounts of money to dh's parents because dh wanted to wipe out the massive credit card debt they'd carried for over twenty years. Guess who is back in debt again. :svengo: I never want to give them another dime. Dh wants to be their retirement. It's a mess.

 

I am bound and determined to not be a financial burden to my children and to teach them to take care of themselves.

 

Is it possible your husband subconsciously feels "guilty" over being the financially stable/affluent one in the family? Maybe by giving the money he is trying to equalize the relationships. He sounds very generous and loving, certainly he is lucky to have you as his voice of reason.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I'd feel better about going out and buying them some gift cards for necessities like food.

 

:iagree:This.

 

 

AND--I agree with you as well that if she isn't willing to support herself when she can then extra money from other people isn't helping her at all.

[HandmaidenofChrist]

Laura,

My parent's, my mother, especially, was this way with my siblings. Now that I am serving as their POA and my parent's have NOTHING left to give them, it's a sad place for adult children to be at 50 something years of age.

 

I have had to put my foot down and deny my siblings what they've been used to getting all these years. If I don't, basic needs of my elderly parent's will not be met.

 

Even if this was my own money, I would put a stop to this madness with my sister and brother.

 

Stop this cycle of enabling while you can and encourage your dh to put his foot down and say enough is enough.

 

I like what someone else said, and agree with this definition of helping vs. enabling.

Helping is what you do when someone is unable to do something himself. Enabling is what you do when you "help" someone who is perfectly capable of helping himself, but chooses not to.

 

Healthy boundaries give birth to healthy people. " )

 

I'll be praying for you and your hubby to be in agreement on this issue.

[elfgivas]

Laura,

 

 

I like what someone else said, and agree with this definition of helping vs. enabling.

Helping is what you do when someone is unable to do something himself. Enabling is what you do when you "help" someone who is perfectly capable of helping himself, but chooses not to.

 

Healthy boundaries give birth to healthy people. " )

 

 

:iagree: would it help your dh to look at what you are actually helping them to do..... ie. you are helping your dsil to not work when she could and should? if they were him, they would only ask if they needed help. but they aren't him. they are asking because they can, not because they need to. and it was his mom who asked on their behalf, not even them asking themselves.

 

saying "no" would be helping them choose to work.

 

we have one dd like this. she is 25 now. we have had to say to her that we aren't giving her any more money. she is working very part time, and could be working full time. her call. it is killing me, but it simply isn't fair for dh to work himself into an early grave for her to not work....

 

:grouphug:

 

ann

[bcnlvr]

No money. Period.

 

Groceries, some extra furniture, clothes/shoes, yes.

 

I was on the receiving end once and my mother bought us some groceries and clothing. It really helped us.

[Veritaserum]

Is it possible your husband subconsciously feels "guilty" over being the financially stable/affluent one in the family? Maybe by giving the money he is trying to equalize the relationships. He sounds very generous and loving, certainly he is lucky to have you as his voice of reason.

 

I think that's what's going on. He is the only one who is comfortable financially. He worked really, really hard to get us where we are today. There was a year where the kids and I saw him once a week because he was putting in 16+ hour work days and sleeping at the office of his start-up company. Everybody at the company went to half salary at one point because investment funds were low. That was a year of hell for both of us (and we had a new baby partway through), but we decided to make the sacrifice and hope it paid off for us financially later. Once the company was off the ground and profitable, he was able to cut back to more normal work hours, but it was still a stressful venture. That company was purchased last year and we received an excellent return on our investment (six years in the making). Dh's family saw that as a reason to swarm. :glare:

 

He feels a responsibility to share the wealth because his family was always poor, always in debt. His parents did have a couple of bouts of bad luck with unemployment and overpaying for a house, but they also chronically overspent. You can work yourself out of a hole you've fallen into if you're smart with your resources. If you squander them, you just end up digging yourself deeper.

 

It makes me mad that dh's siblings mooch of his parents, who are in NO position to help anyone. But I think MIL created that mess herself with her continual need to rescue and worry over her little chicks. The youngest got his first real job at nearly 27 years old because I wouldn't let him and his family live with us anymore. The SIL in this thread is 33. His other sister is 31 and I respect her because she and her husband take care of themselves. They don't have a lot of breathing room, but they are practical and they get by. I like doing things like giving her airline miles to come visit her parents because I know she's working hard.

 

I wish I could say no to any financial "help" to SIL, but dh sees that as very selfish on my part and I'm tired of arguing about it. I'll put my foot down about no cash, though.

[happypamama]

I think I'd see exactly why the sister who is a nurse isn't working more. Could she pick up more hours? If so, then I'd help minimally, if at all, paying a specific bill or two, or providing grocery gift cards. But I'd ask her, to be sure. Maybe you'd think she should be able to pick up more hours, but in reality, maybe the area isn't hiring for more hours or something. If that's the case, and they're just waiting for a couple of months until the BIL's job starts, I'd be more inclined to give them a bit of cash now and then a bit in a month, rather than a larger chunk right now. Help them learn to budget.

[alpidarkomama]

OY! If six people can live on my DH's modest income, than surely two people can live on a nurse's income if she added adequate hours. (Assuming no other extenuating circumstances, of course.) No, I wouldn't be helping them if they aren't making adequate efforts to help themselves.

[southcarolinamom]

Your husband's family WILL continue to take $$ from him, until he says "enough is enough."

 

They are taking advantage of his generosity and stable financial picture. He should NOT feel guilted into helping his parents/siblings anymore.

 

I'm sorry... it's an awkward situation all around.

[Myeightkiddies]

Has the husband been collecting unemployment up until now? If not I'm curious as to why he wasn't working - doing anything.

 

If he was collecting unemployment and the wife was able to get more hours, there is no reason to assist them, since there are no children/health issues. They can work with their creditors which would ease the pressure until the new job happens.

 

In my opinion, giving them money is enabling them. Doing so is not helping them; it's hurting. It won't be selfish not to give it to them. If anything it would be the more caring thing to do.

 

Grocery gift card would be the best if anything. It will feed them. It will give them money for bills (because they won't need to buy groceries).

 

:grouphug:

[Ester Maria]

They are exploiting their family's generosity. At some point, it becomes just a plain disrespect. You cannot not make a serious effort to help yourself and require help from others, who earn their money and have more obligations in life (children, etc.), at the same time. I would not be willing to enable them.

 

But, IF you choose to enable them now, I would absolutely go with your suggestion of a gift card rather than cash. Cash is dangerous for people who cannot handle money, it is wiser to provide a concrete, tangible favor for them rather than expect them to help themselves with abstract money.

[Tigger]

I'm in the 'do not give them money camp' because when adults are not allowed to experience the natural consequences of their behavior, nothing ever changes - your rescuing basically validates what they're doing and they continue to do it.

 

Your SIL is a licensed professional, quite capable of working additional hours to meet their financial needs until her husband starts working again - her profession alone could support them, nurses are paid quite well. She chooses not to work more - that is not your, nor your DH's, problem - it is their problem and unless they feel the effect of their own choices, noting will change for them. Your family works hard for what you have - it isn't a family free-for-all to pick your pockets when they're capable of earning money by working and they're choosing not to work!

[ereks mom]

Has the husband been collecting unemployment up until now? If not I'm curious as to why he wasn't working - doing anything.

 

If he was collecting unemployment and the wife was able to get more hours, there is no reason to assist them, since there are no children/health issues. They can work with their creditors which would ease the pressure until the new job happens.

In my opinion, giving them money is enabling them. Doing so is not helping them; it's hurting. It won't be selfish not to give it to them. If anything it would be the more caring thing to do.

 

Grocery gift card would be the best if anything. It will feed them. It will give them money for bills (because they won't need to buy groceries).

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree:

[elfgivas]

i just read your last post. maybe it would help your dh to remember back to the beginning of the start up company and why you all (not just him) made the sacrifices to get it off the ground.

 

i'm guessing that was for your family's financial stability later on, which might include being mortgage free, helping pay for your dc's university, etc.

 

if so, then maybe he could agree to pay the dc. ie. put money into an account for them to save for university. and pay down the mortgage.

 

the equation might look like:

a (money for sibling) + b (money for each dc for college) + c (paying down the mortgage) where a = b = c

 

so if he wanted to give a thousand dollars to his sibling, then he would also agree to pay down the mortgage $1000- and put $1000- in an account for each of the dc.

 

it may help him to see he is giving away their future which he worked for, not just helping out his sibling, because the spare money isn't actually really spare money if you look ahead a few years. so it is not you being ungenerous, it is you looking out for your kids.....

 

hth,

ann

[saraha]

I don't know your specific circumstances, but money doesn't last forever sometimes. Maybe one thing you could do is point out that you love that he is a giver, and that maybe you can buy them some gift cards this time, then maybe one evening remind him that your 5 children are going to want to go to college, and will probably need their first vehicle, and you might want to give them some help if they decide to be entreprenuers or travel internationally for some experience etc... Maybe if you frame it like what they need as ADULTS could be taking away from what you want to provide your CHILDREN, it would help him agree with you. If it were my husband, making it about his family and their foolishness will only make him defensive, so turning it around to about your kids may make a difference.

 

Good luck! It must be very frustrating.

 

ETA: the previous poster and I were posting at same time, sorry for being redundant

[MelanieM]

Yes, it is enabling them to give them money. And here's the thing about being an enabler... it's an entirely selfish endeavour. People enable because it's easier to do that and feel good about "helping" than it is to give real help, which usually means saying no. It's a pretty hard thing to stand up to someone you love and let them know that you won't be doing for them so they can find the reward in doing for themselves. It's pretty easy to fork over money and pretend you're helping them out.

 

Your husband sounds like a lovely man. But really, he's kidding himself if he thinks that you're the selfish one in wanting to say no to his family. He's not doing them any favours. So if he really wanted to be selfless and help them out, he'd get firm and put an end to these constant requests for "help".

 

I know that must sound harsh, and I don't mean to be. But I speak from experience, as someone with far too much experience in enabling, and in standing up and saying no.

[jennsmile]

Have him ask Dave Ramsey for advice or just listen to a few podcasts. I am sure he will figure it out.

[Plink]

Charity is giving to someone or some cause in need. It doesn't sound like your relatives are in need.

 

They aren't ever going to feel the consequence if people keep bailing them out.

 

Your sister-in-law needs to work and get them out of their finacial mess. They need to get a work ethic instead of a "charity" ethic which IMO is wrong with a lot of folks

 

:iagree: You WILL have to fight this battle with your DH eventually. Personally, I would choose to do it now rather than later, not only for your own financial situation, but also for the good of the recipients. There is absolutely no good that can come from handing out money to perfectly capable beggers, (and I'm often accused of being too generous).

 

Psst... Notice that there hasn't been one post agreeing with your DH.

[Impish]

We've gone through this to some degree w/Wolf's bfamily.

 

He's one of the few (and I mean, I know of ONE other cousin) that works regularily and is in contact w/the bfamily.

 

The uncle thinks nothing of calling us with his hand out. Not just for him, but for his adult dd and grandkids that live w/him. The dd only works now and then, has 3 kids. B/c they know Wolf's employed, of COURSE he has $ to give them for a hotel room, gas $, appliances...

 

They're always taken aback and seemingly stunned when he tells them no. That I'm disabled, we have 3 (now 4) kids at home, our own bills to pay, just doesn't register.

 

Wolf tells them no b/c there's genuinely no extra $. Helping them out isn't an option. We did at one point, and it completely drained our savings, but it *was* an emergency (town pretty much burned down, they were evac'd).

 

Everyone makes their own choices. Its not someone else's job to rescue them from them, but once that starts, its almost impossible to stop.

 

Your dh needs to do what's really best for his sister, and tell her no. It genuinely is the best thing he could possibly do for her, her marriage, and their future.

[Tigger]

Here is how Abraham Lincoln told his brother no - Read Here

[Alphabetika]

I'd feel better about going out and buying them some gift cards for necessities like food.

 

 

If you must give, this is the way to do it, and only ONE TIME.

[kalanamak]

 

A year ago SIL went to part-time and she didn't pick up more hours when her husband no longer provided any income. Even now she won't pick up more hours. I don't know why.

 

I'll go along with it as a one-time thing because dh feels strongly about it, but it feels...wrong. Am I way off base to feel that way?

 

 

If she does not have a health issue to not pick up extra shifts, this is enabling. So, ask why, and with that answer have a serious talk with hubby.

[meggie]

 

Anything having to do with giving anyone money, I firmly believe both spouses need to be on board with it no matter who it is. If that's not the case, giving the money should be off the table.

:iagree: You and DH need to come up with a long term plan. Because it is going to happen again and again and again. Every time it does it's going to cause an argument. You need to settle it once and for all.

[missiemick]

I've been on the receiving end of help and it's always super-appreciated. Some people understand the sacrifices that we're making to homeschool our children (and try to help) and others are hostile. I've never asked for money or even hinted although it's obvious that we don't live the "country-club" lifestyle. If you feel like gifting someone with money (or gift cards) then do it -- if not, then don't. I think the hurt feelings (for both parties) are worse if you give and are resentful.

Another thought -- I've seen people give lots of money to charities that help people in difficult situations (although if you get down to it they probably have the same issues.) I don't understand why some people can give to people that they don't know and not to their own family.

Edited December 1, 2011 by missiemick

[OrganicAnn]

I would suggest that you have to DH read all the responses to your post. He might think that you are biased against his family, but if he sees the responses he might think again.

 

I believe in helping family, but not enabling them to continue to act irresponsibly. I would not give a large sum of money.

[arghmatey]

I would offer to give them a share of food after they volunteered with me at the food co-op for three hours.

[Carol in Cal.]

I've been on the receiving end of help and it's always super-appreciated. Some people understand the sacrifices that we're making to homeschool our children (and try to help) and others are hostile. I've never asked for money or even hinted although it's obvious that we don't live the "country-club" lifestyle. If you feel like gifting someone with money (or gift cards) then do it -- if not, then don't. I think the hurt feelings (for both parties) are worse if you give and are resentful.

Another thought -- I've seen people give lots of money to charities that help people in difficult situations (although if you get down to it they probably have the same issues.) I don't understand why some people can give to people that they don't know and not to their own family.

 

You know, this is just a different kind of situation altogether. There are able bodied people not working as much as their employers want them to, and repeated problems with poor spending choices and dependance issues here. I agree with you that people should help family, and I also think that people's help should extend beyond that. But this specific circumstance has some components that make me think that just putting a bandaid on the problem is going to make it far worse.

[Impish]

I've been on the receiving end of help and it's always super-appreciated. Some people understand the sacrifices that we're making to homeschool our children (and try to help) and others are hostile. I've never asked for money or even hinted although it's obvious that we don't live the "country-club" lifestyle. If you feel like gifting someone with money (or gift cards) then do it -- if not, then don't. I think the hurt feelings (for both parties) are worse if you give and are resentful.

Another thought -- I've seen people give lots of money to charities that help people in difficult situations (although if you get down to it they probably have the same issues.) I don't understand why some people can give to people that they don't know and not to their own family.

B/c there are family members that view others as their own personal chequing acct. That make no effort to solve their own problems, but will constantly turn to family with their hand out, expecting/demanding help to dig out from their own bad decisions, and it never ends until either the money runs out or someone has the courage to stand up and say no.

 

Helping is one thing. Enabling is another, which is exactly the point of this thread.

 

Frankly, giving to strangers is far more appealing than Wolf's family. Strangers wouldn't come back time and again, getting upset when there isn't any more money to be had. I wouldn't have to hear how strangers squander their money on going out to eat, buying ridiculous luxury items, and then crying they didn't have $ for gas for the car, or whatever.

[melissel]

Anything having to do with giving anyone money, I firmly believe both spouses need to be on board with it no matter who it is. If that's not the case, giving the money should be off the table.

 

This. This X 100. I would have a very, very, very big problem with my DH giving them money this time if I was not in agreement. As a PP said, it's not just "spare money" you have laying around. It's your DH's hard work, your sacrifices, your kids' college funds, your retirement money...heck, if you personally have some kind of financial setback, it could even be grocery money for YOUR family, YOUR children. You have six kids to launch into the world. These children were already (unsuccessfully!) launched. It's not your job to keep them afloat.

 

I'm all for finding your bliss, searching for your dream job, living a relaxed lifestyle if you choose to, etc. But NOT if it means climbing on someone else's back to do it. No way.

Edited December 1, 2011 by melissel

[melissel]

You know, this is just a different kind of situation altogether. There are able bodied people not working as much as their employers want them to, and repeated problems with poor spending choices and dependance issues here. I agree with you that people should help family, and I also think that people's help should extend beyond that. But this specific circumstance has some components that make me think that just putting a bandaid on the problem is going to make it far worse.

 

Yes, I agree that these are apples and oranges. Being on the receiving end because you're fighting hard to do what's best for your children is an entirely different situation.

[justasque]

Rather than a grocery card, you might consider giving groceries, period.

 

You could fill a nice basket with apples, root veggies, canned beans, oatmeal, and brown rice, or a similar combo that isn't too perishable. You could include a few recipes using the ingredients, or even a cookbook. And you could do it weekly if you liked. That would ensure there was good nutritious food on the table, and that the money you gave wasn't spent unwisely. They both have the time to cook from scratch, and learning how (if they don't already know) would give them some useful survival-on-a-budget skills.

[kalanamak]

This. This X 100. I would have a very, very, very big problem with my DH giving them money this time if I was not in agreement. As a PP said, it's not just "spare money" you have laying around. It's your DH's hard work, your sacrifices, your kids' college funds, your retirement money...heck, if you personally have some kind of financial setback, it could even be grocery money for YOUR family, YOUR children. You have six kids to launch into the world.

 

Yup. Are the college funds fully funded? Do you have enough for retirement? What if your husband is disabled (much more common than a death that pays life insurance)? I would talk to him along those lines.

[Lawana]

.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Lawana
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