For Catholics: What are your thoughts on the new wording for Mass?

[Heather in Neverland]

My dh was raised catholic including going to catholic school. Although he is no longer catholic, he still remembers all the words to mass. And his father (actually his whole family) is still catholic and his father was aggravated by all the changes in the wording.

 

So what say the catholics on this board? Do you think the new wording is better?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/mass-translation-launches-american-parishes-190101485.html

[Brigitte]

Definitely better. Our parish did an outstanding job of educating the parishioners about the changes and think that helped a lot. Really, all that was done was bring the english translation more in line with the translations of other languages (the french, spanish, etc.). Like change of all kinds, it will take people a while to get used to it and they will need to complain about it until they do. :)

[VinNY]

Definitely better. Our parish did an outstanding job of educating the parishioners about the changes and think that helped a lot. Really, all that was done was bring the english translation more in line with the translations of other languages (the french, spanish, etc.). Like change of all kinds, it will take people a while to get used to it and they will need to complain about it until they do.

:iagree: I am surprised how well we all did ,too. We survived and understood the need for a better translation.

[unsinkable]

I'd say "Catholic" is a proper noun as used in this context and thus needs to be capitalized.

 

It has been an issue on this board before of posters not capitalizing it due to ignorance or deliberate disrespect.

[Heather in Neverland]

Like change of all kinds, it will take people a while to get used to it and they will need to complain about it until they do. :)

 

This made me smile... It so describes my catholic father-in-law. He had no real reason for "not liking" the new wording other than it's just "different". You have to picture a grumpy old man saying it. :tongue_smilie:

[ktgrok]

I'd say "Catholic" is a proper noun as used in this context and thus needs to be capitalized.

 

It has been an issue on this board before of posters not capitalizing it due to ignorance or deliberate disrespect.

 

She did capitalize it in the title, and honestly, it was very clear what she meant. Only one type of Catholic had changed in the mass that started this weekend. As for not capitalizing in the body of the message again, it was very clear, and I think a lot of people, myself included, get in the habit of not using capital letters when dealing with the interweb.

[Brigitte]

This made me smile... It so describes my catholic father-in-law. He had no real reason for "not liking" the new wording other than it's just "different". You have to picture a grumpy old man saying it. :tongue_smilie:

 

I can very easily picture it! :lol: Probably the same type of people had the same reaction after Vatican II. :D

[justamouse]

I love it. We went through a lot of trial runs and though we made some stumbles, all and all, it wasn't so bad. :001_smile: The lax translation from Vat2 bothered me as I was thinking of converting. Knowing the new translations were coming out made me very happy. But, since I remember the responses from when I was a little kid, it's still hard -old habits die hard.

[MariannNOVA]

The changes went well at Saturday evening Mass -- we only had to have one 'do over.' :001_smile:

 

My dh, who is not RC, but attends Mass and is very involved in our three kids going through RCIC, loves the new changes and we have spoken with the kids at length regarding the meaning of the changes.

 

I couldn't help but remember the last time there were changes in the Mass -- I must have been 9 or 10 or something, and THOSE were changes!:D

[TravelingChris]

I am no longer Catholic but don't like it. Why? Because now a creed that is used in more churches than just the Catholics is different with no real reason. I also think that eternally begotten is easier to understand than the new phrasing and certainly hope that other denominations don't adopt that phrasing.

[Murphy101]

There was a very good reason to adopt these changes.

The new wording reflects a more accurate translation of the Latin and a clearer meaning.

[chiguirre]

I have no opinion about the new wording, but our parish did a good job preparing for the change. They've used the homily to go over the changes extensively, hosted a special course on them, practiced the new music for the ordinaries before Mass and have the new responses on the overhead screens. I'm sure everyone will adjust by Christmas.

[mommaduck]

I'd say "Catholic" is a proper noun as used in this context and thus needs to be capitalized.

 

It has been an issue on this board before of posters not capitalizing it due to ignorance or deliberate disrespect.

Some people do do that. However, I believe that Heather did not do so intentionally. (but then, I like to try to think the best in people)

[mommaduck]

I am no longer Catholic but don't like it. Why? Because now a creed that is used in more churches than just the Catholics is different with no real reason. I also think that eternally begotten is easier to understand than the new phrasing and certainly hope that other denominations don't adopt that phrasing.

They changed the wording of the Nicene Creed?! Okay, I have to know how it now reads. I'm guessing the filioque is still in there though, right?

[Tigger]

There was a very good reason to adopt these changes.

 

The new wording reflects a more accurate translation of the Latin and a clearer meaning.

 

:iagree:

 

And the change is now also the standard for all Masses in English, no matter where in the world you are, so it adds consistency where before it wasn't there.

[Tigger]

They changed the wording of the Nicene Creed?! Okay, I have to know how it now reads. I'm guessing the filioque is still in there though, right?

 

Incorrect

 

See: http://www.divinesacredheart.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=192&Itemid=89

 

Edited November 28, 2011 by Tigger

[FaithManor]

Old Text

 

I believe in God, the Father almighty,

 

Creator of heaven and earth.

 

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

 

our Lord.

 

He was conceived

 

by the power of the Holy Spirit

 

and born of the Virgin Mary.

 

He suffered under Pontius Pilate,

 

was crucified, died, and was buried.

 

He descended to the dead.

 

On the third day he rose again.

 

He ascended into heaven,

 

and is seated at the right hand

 

of the Father.

 

He will come again to judge

 

the living and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

 

the holy catholic Church,

 

the communion of saints,

 

the forgiveness of sins,

 

the resurrection of the body,

 

and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

New Text

 

I believe in God, the Father almighty,

 

Creator of heaven and earth,

 

and in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

 

our Lord,

 

who was conceived

 

by the Holy Spirit,

 

born of the Virgin Mary,

 

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

 

was crucified, died and was buried;

 

he descended into hell;

 

on the third day he rose again

 

from the dead;

 

he ascended into heaven,

 

and is seated at the right hand

 

of God the Father almighty;

 

from there he will come to judge

 

the living and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

 

the holy catholic Church,

 

the communion of saints,

 

the forgiveness of sins,

 

the resurrection of the body,

 

and life everlasting. Amen.

 

The new text is VERY close to how we say this creed in our non-Catholic church. It's a very nice, ecumenical read and flows well. I think the change is good, though I'm not Catholic so maybe I shouldn't weigh in on this. :001_smile:

 

Faith

[Parrothead]

Old Text

 

I believe in God, the Father almighty,

 

Creator of heaven and earth.

 

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

 

our Lord.

 

He was conceived

 

by the power of the Holy Spirit

 

and born of the Virgin Mary.

 

He suffered under Pontius Pilate,

 

was crucified, died, and was buried.

 

He descended to the dead.

 

On the third day he rose again.

 

He ascended into heaven,

 

and is seated at the right hand

 

of the Father.

 

He will come again to judge

 

the living and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

 

the holy catholic Church,

 

the communion of saints,

 

the forgiveness of sins,

 

the resurrection of the body,

 

and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

New Text

 

I believe in God, the Father almighty,

 

Creator of heaven and earth,

 

and in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

 

our Lord,

 

who was conceived

 

by the Holy Spirit,

 

born of the Virgin Mary,

 

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

 

was crucified, died and was buried;

 

he descended into hell;

 

on the third day he rose again

 

from the dead;

 

he ascended into heaven,

 

and is seated at the right hand

 

of God the Father almighty;

 

from there he will come to judge

 

the living and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

 

the holy catholic Church,

 

the communion of saints,

 

the forgiveness of sins,

 

the resurrection of the body,

 

and life everlasting. Amen.

I'm not sure where you got this, but it isn't the Catholic Nicene Creed. There are bits missing.

 

Mommaduck if you want to see a side-by-side comparison check out this site.

[Tigger]

I'm not sure where you got this, but it isn't the Catholic Nicene Creed. There are bits missing.

 

Mommaduck if you want to see a side-by-side comparison check out this site.

 

Oh....I cut & paste from Catholic Messenger - my bad, sorry!

 

I corrected my post with the other link!

Edited November 28, 2011 by Tigger

[mommaduck]

I'm not sure where you got this, but it isn't the Catholic Nicene Creed. There are bits missing.

 

Mommaduck if you want to see a side-by-side comparison check out this site.

I was going to say, there are huge chunks missing...and surprisingly the filioque was missing from both.

[CatMomof3]

Old Text

 

I believe in God, the Father almighty,

 

Creator of heaven and earth.

 

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

 

our Lord.

 

He was conceived

 

by the power of the Holy Spirit

 

and born of the Virgin Mary.

 

He suffered under Pontius Pilate,

 

was crucified, died, and was buried.

 

He descended to the dead.

 

On the third day he rose again.

 

He ascended into heaven,

 

and is seated at the right hand

 

of the Father.

 

He will come again to judge

 

the living and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

 

the holy catholic Church,

 

the communion of saints,

 

the forgiveness of sins,

 

the resurrection of the body,

 

and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

New Text

 

I believe in God, the Father almighty,

 

Creator of heaven and earth,

 

and in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

 

our Lord,

 

who was conceived

 

by the Holy Spirit,

 

born of the Virgin Mary,

 

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

 

was crucified, died and was buried;

 

he descended into hell;

 

on the third day he rose again

 

from the dead;

 

he ascended into heaven,

 

and is seated at the right hand

 

of God the Father almighty;

 

from there he will come to judge

 

the living and the dead.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

 

the holy catholic Church,

 

the communion of saints,

 

the forgiveness of sins,

 

the resurrection of the body,

 

and life everlasting. Amen.

 

This is not the Nicene Creed this is the Apostles' Creed - yes that changed as well. :001_smile: (important when you pray the Rosary)

 

Here is the old and new version of the Nicene Creed ...

 

OLD

 

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

and all that is seen and unseen.

 

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation

He came down from heaven:

by the power of the Holy Spirit

He was born of the Virgin Mary,

and became man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

He suffered, died, and was buried.

On the third day He rose again

in fulfillment of the Scriptures;

He ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory

to judge the living and the dead,

and His kingdom will have no end.

 

We believe in the Holy Spirit,

the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

With the Father and the Son

He is worshiped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

 

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

NEW - I italicized the changes (I think I got them all)

 

I believe in one God, the Father almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all things visible and invisible.

 

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the

Only Begotten Son of God, born of

the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light, true God

from true God, begotten, not made,

consubstantial with the Father;

through him all things were made. For

us men and for our salvation he came

down from heaven, and by the Holy

Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,

and became man. For our sake

he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death

and was buried, and rose again on the third day in

accordance with the Scriptures. He

ascended into heaven and is seated at the

right hand of the Father. He will

come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and

his kingdom will have no end.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the

giver of life, who proceeds from the

Father and the Son, who with the Father

and the Son is adored and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

 

I believe in one, holy,

catholic and apostolic Church. I confess

one Baptism for the forgiveness

of sins and I look forward to the

resurrection of the dead and the life

of the world to come. Amen.

[Murphy101]

That is not the Nicene Creed.

 

Here is the new translation of the Nicene Creed. It took me some time to type it in, so forgive me if four or more others have done so faster.:)

 

I believe in one God,

The Father Almighty,

Maker of heaven and earth,

Of all things visible and invisible.

 

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,

The Only begotten Son of God,

Born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

True God from true God,

Begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

Through Him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation

He came down from heaven.

 

(at the words that follow, up to and including "and became man", all bow)

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary

And became man.

 

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,

He suffered death and was buried,

And rose again on the third day

In accordance with scriptures.

He ascended into Heaven

And is seated at the right hand of the Father.

 

He will come again in glory

To judge the living and the dead

And his kingdom will have no end.

 

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

Who proceeds from the Father and the Son,

Who with the Father and Son is adored and glorified,

Who has spoken through the prophets.

 

I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins

And I look forward to the resurrection of the dead

And the life of the world to come. Amen.

[Teachin'Mine]

We didn't go to the informational program about the changes, so we saw them for the first time yesterday. It was so strange to have to read along with everything, and still get it wrong sometimes. :lol: But I like the changes - the wording seems more powerful somehow. I also like having to listen closely as with the old it didn't always sink in since we knew it all so well. You could almost hear a collective sigh when we noticed the Our Father didn't have any changes. :lol:

 

Just a thought for anyone considering checking out the Catholic Church -- now is a great time! Everyone is reading along with the Mass and you'll fit right in with the rest of us who are learning it for the first time. :001_smile:

 

I didn't know the Apostle's Creed has changed too - off to Google. lol

[merry gardens]

I like it. It will take time for me to get used to saying the new translation correctly, but I like the language better. :)

[mommaduck]

Shoot, it's still there! :p (I'm teasing...I would have been shocked if it wasn't)

[Ellie]

Yes, I think it's better. And even if I didn't, I wouldn't have a cow, because people who are lots smarter than I (and who have the authority to make those kinds of decisions) decided that there needed to be a change. Who am I to argue with the Pope, KWIM? :D

[Lady Florida.]

I'm not sure where you got this, but it isn't the Catholic Nicene Creed. There are bits missing.

 

Mommaduck if you want to see a side-by-side comparison check out this site.

 

I was born and raised Catholic, and even though I left the Catholic church long before I became an atheist, I thought this wasn't right. I will say though, that even the "old" one you linked to is not the one I was taught in Catholic school. We used to say "according to the scriptures" and somewhere along the line it was changed to "in fulfillment of the scriptures".

[Hannah C.]

I am not yet Catholic (currently in RCIA), but I love many of the new Mass changes. They bring the English translation much closer to the Latin. I grew up saying "and with your spirit" in an Episcopal church and I've always liked that better, so I'm super excited about that change.

 

I don't mind the Nicene Creed changing - almost every denomination says it, but every single one uses slightly different wording. I was already getting tripped up, so the new translation doesn't make a difference to me. ;)

[Parrothead]

Shoot, it's still there! :p (I'm teasing...I would have been shocked if it wasn't)

Yeah, I don't think that would be the way they would announce that change to the world. :D

[Pink Fairy]

Love them! ♥

[extendedforecast]

I am happy about the changes. It will take a while before I get used to the changes, for example, I used "and with your spirit" correctly three times out of four. We had cards in the pews that had all the changes to the mass. On a side note, mass yesterday was beautiful; my eyes got watery during communion.

[love2read]

Love it! It's a more direct translation of the ancient Latin Mass and easier to see and understand the scriptural underpinnings of the Mass. There are many examples of this, but choosing just one

"As the priest invites us to receive Holy Communion, he will say ‘Behold’, rather than ‘This is’, ‘the Lamb of God’. ‘Behold’ means ‘to look at’ and is our invitation to adore Christ who we are about to receive in Holy Communion. We are used to saying ‘Lord I am not worthy to receive you’ ... This will change to: ‘Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed’. This is almost exactly what the Roman Centurion said when he came and begged Jesus to heal his servant. When Jesus says he will come to the Centurion’s house, the man knows that Jesus doesn’t need to do that, that just his word will be enough. The Centurion says: ‘Lord I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word and my servant will be healed’. Our new reply changes only one word of the Centurion’s speech - my servant becomes my soul will be healed."

[zaichiki]

Defintely better: more specific.

Like my 5 y.o. said: "It' IS a chalice. Not just any cup."

 

It's always hard to adjust to change, of course, especially for the older generation. We'll get used to it...

[zaichiki]

The new wording reflects a more accurate translation of the Latin and a clearer meaning.

:iagree:

[OLG]

Very happy with the changes. More accurate translations and just more poetic in the Roman Missal readings as well. Change is good, this time!

[LMA]

The wording isn't new. The vernacular Mass is just going to back to the traditional translations of the Traditional Mass before Vatican II.

[Avila]

I like it. It is more poetic. I would love to change the readings to the RSV, while we are at it. :D

 

It does require an effort, but effort is good here. None of us can be on autopilot with responses.

[JFSinIL]

Since I still hear, in my head, the old cadence of the responses and the bells tingling when the host is lifted (from my early 1960's childhood) I do not care for any more messing about with MY service. Bah humbug.

[SonshineLearner]

Gosh, sad, I like the "we" used.... I'm not sure about the other changes. Seems like Congregational praying/singing where we're all agreeing together, .... because we are together. (versus the "I" in everything)

oh well...

[Heather in Neverland]

 

Just a thought for anyone considering checking out the Catholic Church -- now is a great time! Everyone is reading along with the Mass and you'll fit right in with the rest of us who are learning it for the first time. :001_smile: lol

 

That is a good point! I enjoy going to mass on holidays with dh's family but I always feel like such a dork because I am the only one reading from the little pamphlet thing.

 

Yesterday I told him, "oh no! They changed 'and also with you'!! That's the only part I know!" :tongue_smilie: But now I won't be the only one peeking at the notes. :D

[Abeth78]

I am no longer Catholic but don't like it. Why? Because now a creed that is used in more churches than just the Catholics is different with no real reason. I also think that eternally begotten is easier to understand than the new phrasing and certainly hope that other denominations don't adopt that phrasing.

 

I noticed no one answered you. Actually it isn't just to be different it is to be more of an accurate translation. Something like "consubstantial" being added makes it appear more complicated to understand yet that is the more appropriate word than "one in being with the Father" because it does not completely imply the same things. There was actually a christian cult group back at the time of the Council of Nicea that was teaching God created Jesus, then the both created the Holy Spirit...so the original "Consubstantial" was important for clearing up that doctrinal heresy.

 

From what our parish taught as well, it was really more of an America/English thing. Many languages apparently did a better job of translating back in Vat2.

 

I absolutely love the changes, and I am so glad they are taking place before my son has learn them LOL

 

My MIL who is a life long Catholic didn't understand why the changes either... I wouldn't have either if I hadn't educated myself on it... I wanted to be able to explain to my son...but in the end got so much more an education myself.

[milovany]

Gosh, sad, I like the "we" used.... I'm not sure about the other changes. Seems like Congregational praying/singing where we're all agreeing together, .... because we are together. (versus the "I" in everything)

oh well...

 

We have said "I" in the Orthodox churches I've been to, but it's place in the liturgy (and the fact that we're all standing and saying "I" together) implies that it's a community statement, not an individual statement. Would that be true in the Catholic church, too?

[justamouse]

We have said "I" in the Orthodox churches I've been to, but it's place in the liturgy (and the fact that we're all standing and saying "I" together) implies that it's a community statement, not an individual statement. Would that be true in the Catholic church, too?

 

It's been changed to I.

[Aquinas Academy]

I love them. I had to do lots of practice before hand because the old translation is so ingrained in my head, so I can understand why some are resistant to the changes. The thing is, these are not really new translations; they are more accurate translations of the Latin, which is very old. So while this is a change, it is a good one because we are going back to the original.

[simka2]

I am no longer Catholic but don't like it. Why? Because now a creed that is used in more churches than just the Catholics is different with no real reason. I also think that eternally begotten is easier to understand than the new phrasing and certainly hope that other denominations don't adopt that phrasing.

 

You know what is funny? When I read the Consubstantial part I was immediately transported back to the Assemblies of God. In some of the higher theological circles (academics, district leadership, General council) this term is used quite a bit.

 

I thought the rest of the changes were great. ;)

[Jackie in NE]

My dh was raised catholic including going to catholic school. Although he is no longer catholic, he still remembers all the words to mass. And his father (actually his whole family) is still catholic and his father was aggravated by all the changes in the wording.

 

So what say the catholics on this board? Do you think the new wording is better?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/mass-translation-launches-american-parishes-190101485.html

 

I love the new wording. I like the fact that the translation is closer to the original Latin. My 2 dd were translating bits of the Mass back to Latin today (for fun)! I also think it is much more thoughtful and poetic. I have always loved the Mass. Now I love it even more. :)

[kandty]

Happy with the changes! I wonder how long until I know it all off the top of my head? The loud guy behind me kept saying things wrong (and then laughing at himself when he realized) and it really threw me off. :tongue_smilie: I finally just kept my mouth shut and said it to myself (trying hard to study the new stuff and ignoring the guy behind me). Next Sunday I will know to sit a few pews behind him, lol. Maybe that will help.

[milovany]

It's been changed to I.

 

No, I mean is it said in community, so can saying "I" be viewed the way I described? (Even though you're saying "I" you're saying it in the context of a community, so it means "we".)

[K&Rs Mom]

Gosh, sad, I like the "we" used.... I'm not sure about the other changes. Seems like Congregational praying/singing where we're all agreeing together, .... because we are together. (versus the "I" in everything)

oh well...

 

I've heard this explained the other way too - that as "we believe" it's easy to just go along with it, but as "I believe" it's a more personal commitment so we have to take it more seriously.

 

I'm another vote in favor of the changes. Yes, it's hard to get used to (and I hate change in general), but so worth it for the better translation: more scriptural, more biblical, and more beautiful. I like that we have to pay attention instead of going through on autopilot.

 

And I can't wait to see how Christmas Mass goes - half the people who will be there will have no idea that there has been a change, as they haven't been in church since Easter. That should be interesting.

[Teachin'Mine]

I like it. It is more poetic. I would love to change the readings to the RSV, while we are at it. :D

 

It does require an effort, but effort is good here. None of us can be on autopilot with responses.

 

Me too! :D