Teachin'Mine Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 No, I mean is it said in community, so can saying "I" be viewed the way I described? (Even though you're saying "I" you're saying it in the context of a community, so it means "we".) As it is a profession of our faith as members of the Catholic Church - yes it is being said as the community of believers, but now we are specifically saying that we as individuals believe this. As has been said, this is a more accurate translation of the Latin. The Apostles' Creed has always been said with "I" and now the Nicene Creed is too. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchel210 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I dont like it...Just because I dont like change...Ours changed a couple weeks back. It is crazy listening to everyone saying different things. The priest announced he figures we should all know it in about 3 months or so! :lol: That's a long time! In my daughters school they have mass weekly and they had introduced it a few weeks back as well. It is a little easier for them since they practice the new verses in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unscripted Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I love it... It is feels more almost regal. I love the flow and poetic nature of it. The phrasing is just beautiful and not so ordinary... And the mass should be special - even in the types of speech used (IMO). That said- it's going to take me a bit to get my mouth reprogrammed ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I'm surprised to see so many people think that the wording is more poetic, sounds better, etc. because I am completely the opposite - I find the new wording more distant in feel and clunky in sound. Almost painful at some parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 No, I mean is it said in community, so can saying "I" be viewed the way I described? (Even though you're saying "I" you're saying it in the context of a community, so it means "we".) Ah, sorry. Yes, that's the understood meaning and what was explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I dont like it...Just because I dont like change...Ours changed a couple weeks back. It is crazy listening to everyone saying different things. :iagree:. If I had been alive during VatII it probably would have really chapped my hide to have everything changed. I know I'll get used to it and then they'll change it again and I'll be all put out again for another ten years. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristangrace Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I'm not Catholic, but I'll throw my opinion in for free. :) (I am Anglican, and enjoy tracking liturgical changes.) I read an article in First Things about the changes, and they seem fabulous. Supposedly more accurate--always a good thing--and more beautiful, too--also a good thing. Win-win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel marie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 we needed to revamp it. as the church has told us, some of the translations were not done very well and left different meanings of some of the parts of mass. it wasn't as originally intended. the Pope who is well versed in several languages saw that the tranlations were off in some of the countries he visited and took the appropiate measures to change them to what they should be. my husband and i spoke about this on sunday and i think it's been good for us to have had this done. it makes you stop and think about the words that you are reciting. how many times have you rattled off the words in church only to really be thinking of something else? it happens to me, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimnc Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I LOVE the new changes. It is so much closer to the Latin, and the Eucharistic prayer is so beautiful and poetic. There was a line at the beginning of the prayer that says "send down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall" on the gifts - so beautiful! :001_smile: My only question is why did it take so long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogMom5 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I like the changes. In addition to being closer to the original Latin, it sounds more sacred to me. For me, it's a welcome change. Now if we could return to the more sacred music...but that's for another thread. :D Denise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The changes are fine, but I just keep messing up and saying the old wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pageta Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Something no one has mentioned: english is now the default international language, as Latin once was (and before it, greek). By making the english translation closer to the Latin you enable communities who do not have a latin scholar to translate the mass into their own language from english (chances are, they have someone with some degree of fluency in english) with a greater degree of accuracy. The former dynamic translation would possibly make it less likely a new translation in a vernacular would closely mirror the Latin. Like this: Ich habe hunger. I am hungry. vs I have hunger This is exactly why I think the change is rather stupid. Who actually says "I have hunger" as a part of daily speech? When my kids walk into the kitchen, they say "Mom, I'm hungry," not "Mom, I have hunger." German also has a habit of taking the second half of the verb and plopping it at the end of the sentence. So a direct translation might be something like "We are in the car with the family to Grandma's driving." That may be a direct translation of how the Germans might say something, but that's not how we say it in English. So just because they say something a certain way in Latin doesn't necessarily mean we need a literal translation into English. As we went through the mass Sunday I was looking to understand new meanings in things, but it was basically saying the same things with different words. I gained no new insight. It's just a different way of saying the same things. For instance, I don't understand why we need to use the word "consubstantial" when most people have no idea what that means (I looked up that term online and it was labeled "archaic" - as in, it's a word nobody uses anymore). When you look up the definition of consubstantial, it means essentially what we were saying in the old translation. The whole point of translating the mass into the language of the people was so that the people could understand what was being said. Using awkward phrases that nobody uses in real life and archaic terminology doesn't jive with "in the language of the people" in my mind. Like with versions of the Bible, you can speak proper English that people know and understand without using current slang (NIV vs The Message - I'll take the NIV any day!). I don't see how the new version improves on anything, and I don't see the reason why we need to be more "literal" in our translation. If you aren't translating something from the original, you shouldn't expect the translation to be as correct as something that was. I guess I just don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Personally, I am as pleased as possible with the more accurate translation plus it sounding better to my ear. We were well prepared for the new translation, and even though there were a couple goofs, it went a quite well. As to changing 'We believe' to 'I believe', that is an accurate translation of Credo. Also, when the entire church community says the Creed, it is a communal 'I' - spoken as one. Very, very pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VA6336 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is exactly why I think the change is rather stupid. Who actually says "I have hunger" as a part of daily speech? When my kids walk into the kitchen, they say "Mom, I'm hungry," not "Mom, I have hunger." German also has a habit of taking the second half of the verb and plopping it at the end of the sentence. So a direct translation might be something like "We are in the car with the family to Grandma's driving." That may be a direct translation of how the Germans might say something, but that's not how we say it in English. So just because they say something a certain way in Latin doesn't necessarily mean we need a literal translation into English. As we went through the mass Sunday I was looking to understand new meanings in things, but it was basically saying the same things with different words. I gained no new insight. It's just a different way of saying the same things. For instance, I don't understand why we need to use the word "consubstantial" when most people have no idea what that means (I looked up that term online and it was labeled "archaic" - as in, it's a word nobody uses anymore). When you look up the definition of consubstantial, it means essentially what we were saying in the old translation. The whole point of translating the mass into the language of the people was so that the people could understand what was being said. Using awkward phrases that nobody uses in real life and archaic terminology doesn't jive with "in the language of the people" in my mind. Like with versions of the Bible, you can speak proper English that people know and understand without using current slang (NIV vs The Message - I'll take the NIV any day!). I don't see how the new version improves on anything, and I don't see the reason why we need to be more "literal" in our translation. If you aren't translating something from the original, you shouldn't expect the translation to be as correct as something that was. I guess I just don't get it. Regarding having the Mass in the vernacular, I think of the new translation more like a sacred vernacular. Having the language a little less "every day on the street" style helps to elevate the Mass to it's proper level of not being something...ordinary. It's not ordinary at all, and I think the language helps the congregation with that. I hope you're able to see the beauty of the change as times goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I like the changes. In addition to being closer to the original Latin, it sounds more sacred to me. For me, it's a welcome change. Now if we could return to the more sacred music...but that's for another thread. :DDenise Yeah, I agree. With the exception of 3 songs, I really dislike all the hymns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Now if we could return to the more sacred music...but that's for another thread. :DDenise Amen! :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yeah, I agree. With the exception of 3 songs, I really dislike all the hymns. :iagree: Which is why I love a good, TLM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LG Gone Wild Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 :iagree: Which is why I love a good, TLM. My husbands dislikes it because it is hard to follow. I adore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleWonders Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I just started attending mass in October (and just started RCIA), but starting about when I showed up, my parish began really talking about the new translation, "trying out" parts of it on different weekends, and even ran a "clinic" on the new mass two weekends before, where one of the sisters of the parish "narrated" the changes as they came up. I have to say, it's nice having everyone else as lost as I feel at time, trying to flip to the right page to say things correctly. ;) I really like the new translation; I appreciate it being more in line with the original Latin. I was very impressed with how easily consubstantial rolled off everyone's tongue Saturday night. We did have one time where everyone said, "And also with you" and then let out a slight, yet audible, chuckle when we all realized what we said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathmom Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 From what our parish taught as well, it was really more of an America/English thing. Many languages apparently did a better job of translating back in Vat2. Yeah, what a shock...LOL *eye roll* :001_smile: I LOVE THE CHANGES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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