What would you do if your husband INSISTED on ps?

[elfgivas]

 

 

Divorce is better than an overly-authoritarian father brow-beating a timid mother. We could be talking about any number of topics (clothing, sports, food, appropriate discipline, etc) and it would still be that underlying paradigm that poisons this family.

 

 

being a single mom is really, really, really hard. divorce may not be the better option in the life experience of the mom and kids. having to work full time, have her kids in school and deal with the emotional fall out may actually be worse than navigating her current situation.

 

having a father who took his roll seriously and respectfully rather than in a power tripping way would be the best option.

 

perhaps she could ask him to be specific about his concerns re their weirdness, and specific about who and how he would like them to be, and then come up with strategies to address the concerns, with a re-evaluation time set up in the future.

 

its a tough thing.... rock/hard place.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[JessReplanted]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I know that the best way to approach my husband on something like this would be with an attitude of:

"I can see that you want to be involved in making decisions about our children's education. That is ok with me - as long as you take as much time and effort as I have to educate yourself about it."

 

And then I would start a book pile that I expected him to read. And hand him articles with statistics. If he still persevered, I would try to get a tour of the local Jr. High, and try to 'interview' a public Jr. High student.

 

My husband would never get through the books. The fight would end there.

 

FWIW - I don't think that it's a time for this woman to just give up and stop trying - but it's also not a time to make her marriage a battle ground and fight to the death over this. There are other ways to approach it!

[JessReplanted]

You really think your child would be better in the middle of a divorce situation than in public school? That kind of makes me sick.

 

 

That makes me sick too. I survived my parents' divorce, but the effects of it are endless. :ack2:

[Haiku]

I'd insist right back on homeschooling. They are my kids, too, and I wouldn't be bullied on such an important issue. The husband's reasons for his kids to go to school are specious. I'd tell my dh, "I'm home during the day, so I would be the one dealing with the school. I'm not willing to do that. I will be homeschooling them."

 

Tara

[cdrumm4448]

Then it's time to go to the mat.

 

There are times to be peaceable, I agree, but when I believe my kids are going to be harmed emotionally, then it's a no go. There are no do overs with them, you get one shot and I'm not going to sacrifice their well being over making peace with a patriarchal Dh.

 

:iagree:

[BarbecueMom]

I wonder if the husband is a sports-type and feeling a little deflated that his kids would rather play chess and talk history than watch ESPN. Maybe his coworkers give him a hard time about his kids being nerds and geeks (DH works with a couple former high school bullies who never grew up... I can totally see them picking on DH about his homeschooled kids).

 

I know my dad is completely against homeschooling, because it doesn't matter how great the academics or social benefits are, he doesn't believe kids and parents should live intertwined lives. If he said something like this, it would be because he feels like his world is being stomped on by children that don't have their own world outside of his. I don't agree with him at all, but I could see him saying this to his wife if my brothers were homeschooled (ages 12 and 8).

[In2why]

That would be the end of my marriage, if EITHER of us ever dared to take that kind of stance. The children didn't spring fully formed from my forehead or his. They're OUR children.

 

If Wolf turned against hsing, I'd offer to get him a CAT scan, b/c he'd obviously had some sort of traumatic head injury to cause an about face like that.

 

 

I agree. I can't imagine either of us being that disrespectful of the other.

I am not married to an authoritative husband, but I am shocked by the posts here that state they would never put up with that type of behavior, but in the next sentence write that they would treat their husbands that way.

 

I also can't help but imagine that there was some type of issue to make the husband decide that after years that the kids need public school. Either he is leaving the marriage as Scarlett mentioned and wants a less dependent wife before he splits, or something happened with the kids. I can't imagine that the word "weird" was used in isolation. I would want to know more about my husbands concerns. What he is worried about, and I would listen, not just to debate of apply logic, because these decisions are not always about logic. I think instead that he might have seen something that took him back to his childhood and that he might be also acting out of protection for the kids. His feelings can be misguided and still be real, they should be acknowledged and hashed out in a respectful way to both of you.

 

The other thing, perhaps even larger that both parents is what do the kids want and need. I think sometimes that Homeschooling might become a hill to die on, not for the kids, but because so much of our lives and identities are wrapped up in teaching our children and parenting them. If we stopped homeschooling we would have to ask what would our lives look like instead, and what would our passions be. That can be scary.

 

I fall on the side of homeschooling because it is best for my family and my children, but if it for some reason wasn't I would hope that I could recognize it and stay open to the possibility that there is another way without taking it as a personal attack on me.

 

Before I get off my soapbox, I also wonder when we as women went from being "homemakers" "housewives" and became "stay at home mothers". The change in titles seems unimportant until you think about the pressure it can apply, and also the shift from marriage and family, to child led. I love and adore my children. I have 3 that are grown and now 2 more and a host of others that are temporary members of the family. But this entire life falls apart if our marriage doesn't come first, and while sometimes the kids needs take priority, that is temporary. My marriage and husband are what is going to be left when our children are grown, and I want that to be satisfying, rich, and full.

[PiCO]

We don't know this situation. I would counsel the OP to not get involved in someone else's marriage or family dynamics. At the most, she can counsel her friend to actually talk to her husband and to give him plenty of information so that even if he sticks with a traditional paradigm of being the final say, then he has enough information to make a good decision.

:iagree:

Personally, I would not get myself into a marriage where I didn't have an equal say, and big decisions were not discussed and compromises reached. But we really don't know that can't happen here.

[Nakia]

That kind of "insistence" is so far outside of how my marriage works that I'm sure I would probably think he was joking and crack up.

 

And fwiw, I call my kids weird all the time. I openly admit I am completely weird. It's a term of endearment. :D I'm sure this is not how the op's friend's husband means it though. I actually do have one quirky kid who would be devoured in PS.

 

I'm really surprised by the post about the children belonging to the mother only. Really? I can't imagine thinking that my husband should have no say in how OUR children are raised. He is their father. I didn't make them on my own, and I'm not raising them on my own.

[Amy in NH]

We were jerked all over growing up with this parent with that parent with this family in that foster... It will never happen to my children it is just that simple. Yes we made them together but really here the majority of the time the choices fall on the mother anyway. I just wanted it clear cut to begin with and 14 years later and 4 children it is still clear cut as ever.

 

On this board alone I have learned what a great choice I made keeping family to their own business and not mine. I don't have family picking at me or the children or daring to lecture that I am doing it wrong. Once my mother tried about six months ago and she quickly decided that it wasn't worth messing up our relationship for.

 

I also learned very young that marriages are rarely forever even if they are most stay out of habit or over money or whatever reasons they have but those children will be mine forever. No man will ever come before them. No job, no friend no anything. I want to know when I close my eyes I was the best mother I could be to those kids I could care less for any marriage or any man.

 

Unlike me my kids will always remember that their mommy put them first before all else. I would never put my kids in school because their dad said so. I would never have those children look at me with sadness in their eyes because I wouldn't stick up for them.

 

:iagree: 100%

 

I have also learned this the hard way.

[foxbridgeacademy]

What would I say? Not going to happen.

[Laura Corin]

 

I think in her case, I would say, "I understand your wanting them to be in public school as they get older. But middle school is an especially difficult time socially. Could we wait until each of them start high school?" Maybe that would be a compromise that would work for both of them.

 

She's acknowledging his concerns but mitigating any disadvantages.

 

Laura

[angela in ohio]

It cracks me up how many people equate "equal marriage" to "mom's way" and "both of our children" to "mom's way." :lol: And if dad is allowed a say at all, there must be some abusive sitaution within the marriage or some horrible religious belief to blame.

 

I don't know this family. Maybe mom is terribly failing her dc in their homeschool. I have seen it happen so many times, and all her friends rally around and say, "don't you dare let them send YOUR dc to school, homeschooling si the only way." Maybe they would be better off in school. I tend to trust that her dh knows more about the situation than I do (considering I have never met them.)

[Scarlett]

There is the difference between last say when an agreement can't be reached and not giving the other person any voice at all.

 

You are right, we don't know the situation. But just saying so would make for a dull conversation on a message board. :D

 

:lol:

[Jean in Newcastle]

There is the difference between last say when an agreement can't be reached and not giving the other person any voice at all.

 

You are right, we don't know the situation. But just saying so would make for a dull conversation on a message board. :D

 

True.;) But discussing how much a third party should try to get involved in a friend's marriage and family decisions could be interesting.

 

I had to learn the hard way that people only tell you what puts them in the best light. I had a woman tell me that her husband shoved her. I counseled her to file a restraining order and to seek DV counseling. What she didn't tell me (and I found out later as part of an investigation) is that she had just kicked him in the b*lls and he was defending himself with the shove. Most stories aren't that extreme but still most people give very one-sided vents to even their friends.

[DarlaS]

It cracks me up how many people equate "equal marriage" to "mom's way" and "both of our children" to "mom's way." :lol: And if dad is allowed a say at all, there must be some abusive sitaution within the marriage or some horrible religious belief to blame.

 

I don't know this family. Maybe mom is terribly failing her dc in their homeschool. I have seen it happen so many times, and all her friends rally around and say, "don't you dare let them send YOUR dc to school, homeschooling si the only way." Maybe they would be better off in school. I tend to trust that her dh knows more about the situation than I do (considering I have never met them.)

 

We don't know this family, but the OP does and she said the dh was "authoritative" and "Her kids reflect the time she's invested in them all these years."

 

That's what people are reacting to.

 

Also the mom in question is a former teacher. I do tend to think she knows more about what goes on in school than her dh.

[DawnM]

well, since you asked what I would do if my DH insisted on PS, I will just answer that question first.

 

I would first of all have a very long talk with him and find out all the reasons. To "toughen up" wouldn't fly in any way, shape or form. Academics? I can bump that up and even go with a computer based school or DVD based school if he is worried.

 

If he insisted on sending them, I would spend a lot of time seeing about getting them into our local charter or magnet programs. The local schools are rated highly, but I would still prefer an alternative for a variety of reasons.

 

However, the above would most likely not happen. DH is the one who wanted me to homeschool in the first place. I was the one saying "NO WAY!" :lol:

 

As for this particular couple.....I would have your friend ask her DH to pray about this fervently and I would be on my knees praying that the Lord would change his heart. Then I would wait.

 

Dawn

[Dustybug]

 

Before I get off my soapbox, I also wonder when we as women went from being "homemakers" "housewives" and became "stay at home mothers". The change in titles seems unimportant until you think about the pressure it can apply, and also the shift from marriage and family, to child led. I love and adore my children. I have 3 that are grown and now 2 more and a host of others that are temporary members of the family. But this entire life falls apart if our marriage doesn't come first, and while sometimes the kids needs take priority, that is temporary. My marriage and husband are what is going to be left when our children are grown, and I want that to be satisfying, rich, and full.

 

I completely agree with you here.

 

I think that if I stubbornly insisted on homeschooling my kids no matter what my spouse said, that I would be just as wrong as the spouse who is stubbornly insisting on public school.

 

I agree here too. It would be just as wrong to be on the other end of the spectrum here too. Just because we are all on the side of homeschooling, doesn't mean that it wouldn't be wrong as well.

 

 

 

I also do NOT at all get the "they are MY kids" statement. :001_huh: It takes TWO to make them, and unless you did that little tidbit all on your own or the dad is nowhere to be found, that just seems a bit ludicrous and controlling.

[HS Mom in NC]

This is when I say to my daughters, "See. When you consider getting married you either have to be in total agreement on these kinds of important things or you're marrying the wrong person. That's how your dad and I have managed 18 years of marriage with no disagreement on important issues and why we hardly ever argue."

 

We actually discussed parenting issues before we were engaged. Education was one of them. I wouldn't have considered marrying someone who didn't want to homeschool. (We both went to ps.) We got married at 20 and 26.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is when I say to my daughters, "See. When you consider getting married you either have to be in total agreement on these kinds of important things or you're marrying the wrong person. That's how your dad and I have managed 18 years of marriage with no disagreement on important issues and why we hardly ever argue."

 

We actually discussed parenting issues before we were engaged. Education was one of them. I wouldn't have considered marrying someone who didn't want to homeschool. (We both went to ps.) We got married at 20 and 26.

 

Homeschooling was a pre-engagement deal breaker for me too!;)

[silliness7]

This question isn't for me. My dh is 100 percent on board w/ hs.

 

But a dear, wonderful friend of mine is being told by an authoritative husband, "The kids need to learn to toughen up. They're weird. They need to be in school to learn what life is like. This homeschooling thing has gone on too long already."

 

The kids aren't weird. They're wholesome, sweet, and kind. One is a bit quirky but in a totally cool way from an adult's perspective -- a way that the kids at ps won't understand. My friend is worried that her sweet kids will be eaten alive.

 

My friend taught middle school and knows what ps can be like. Her kids are 9, 10 and 11.

 

Also, she believes that the wife should allow the husband to make these kind of decisions. But she is in a total panic about putting them into ps come Sept.

 

This might be the point in her marriage where she goes to the mat and fights w/ her dh. I don't know. Or she may end up sending them to ps. I repeat: she's in a total panic and very, very sad.

 

Any advice? (He won't listen to a doctor. I don't know what he'd do w/ a pastor's advice, but it's possible that he doesn't think anyone is as smart as he is.)

 

I'm never sure what to say to her. One more repeat: she's really sweet, gentle and kind. A great mom. (Her kids reflect the time she's invested in them all these years.)

 

Alley

 

I think I would tell my friend to see a marriage counselor. Seriously. It doesn't sound like it can end well without help.

[5LittleMonkeys]

If it were MY husband then I would know that he was making that decision based solely on what he felt was in the absolute best interest of the dc. I would have to examine the fact that he wouldn't make that decision lightly and not without feeling that I was in some way putting my dc at a disadvantage by keeping them at home, either academically or emotionally.

 

However, my husband wouldn't just come out of the blue and make that decision without intervening prior to make or break decision time. He would come to me and voice his concerns and discuss with me how to make changes that would satisfy both of our priorities. If he ever did make that decision it would mean that I was in some way not fulfilling my responsibilities.

 

I can't imagine him EVER just making that decision out of the blue and leaving no room for discussion. I wouldn't have married him if that were the type of person he was.

 

I feel for the OP's friend but I wonder if there is more to the story. Either he has always exhibited this type of authoritative behavior and it isn't until now that it's finally about something that she disagrees with OR perhaps they've reached a point that they are disagreeing with how the dc are being raised\educated and she hasn't met with his expectations and has used up all her "chances". Hmmm...either way I don't envy her position right now.

[Joanne]

I don't see this as an issue of homeschooling being more important than the marriage. I see this as a fundamental problem within the marriage. This man does not respect his wife. That would be a deal-breaker for me. I wouldn't stay married to a man who didn't respect me. I wouldn't stay married to man I didn't respect, either.

 

Dh and I periodically discuss public school. It's not completely off the table. It simply isn't better than homeschooling at this point. I know my kids could attend public school and do well.

 

The real issue here, though, is a lack of respect for the wife's concerns and preferences. THAT is a hill to die on.

 

 

:iagree: There are enough red flags in the OP to indicate a problem of power and control, and possibly abuse.

 

 

 

 

My opinion: HSing is merely one detail in an already broken marriage.

 

 

Why is it considered that SHE is (potentially/theoretically) throwing away a marriage over school b/c she wants to HS, but when HE wants to ps and refuses to discuss/compromise/communicate about the matter he is NOT throwing away that same marriage...over school???

 

 

This marriage, as understood in this thread, is already broken. The question is whether or not the woman should shed light on the ugly truth and fight for what is best for her dc...or should she sweep the ugly under the rug again regardless of who pays the piper...and it's those KIDS who will ultimately pay!!!

 

I'd be shining light all over that ugly! :auto:

 

I agree.

 

What I don't agree with is the repeated assumption that getting into (and out of) an authoritarian marriage is as simple as being strong, not going there, not marrying him, and leaving. The abuse cycle is more insidious than that.

[AimeeM]

:iagree: There are enough red flags in the OP to indicate a problem of power and control, and possibly abuse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

What I don't agree with is the repeated assumption that getting into (and out of) an authoritarian marriage is as simple as being strong, not going there, not marrying him, and leaving. The abuse cycle is more insidious than that.

 

What I don't get is the assumption that all marriages with one more authoritarian spouse is doomed and horrible (not your view, necessarily, but others have expressed it); nor do I understand why the presented issue seems to be indicative of a broken marriage. We aren't privy to the details - only what the OP knows/says.

My husband is the head of my home and if he were to insist on something like this (although, in my case, he defers to me on education generally) it would be with good reason, not because he doubted my teaching skills or lacked respect for me. Far more likely that he worries about me for some reason and recognizes that I tend to think emotionally about our children, not always logically. Perhaps he sees a strain on my relationship with the children because of homeschooling, or that I am under too much stress (but knows me well enough to know I won't bow out willingly); perhaps he sees a child struggling and me not teaching it correctly because I can't understand their frustration - often. Perhaps he does see behaviour he considers socially unacceptable (an opinion that is just as valid as Mom's that the child is "fine").

I would not assume that this couple (described in the OP) have a broken marriage based solely off what the op said.

 

What's more, belonging to several HS and SAHM groups, I have had the honor of hearing some rather lively conversations bashing husbands and women making themselves out to be the victim to their peers, while then cooing about their husbands on Facebook or to his face. Women can be manipulative when they want their peers to see things from their point of view - which is just as likely as the husband being a douche given the stats I've rounded up just attending support meetings in my area for HS/SAHM moms.

[Joanne]

What I don't get is the assumption that all marriages with one more authoritarian spouse is doomed and horrible (not your view, necessarily, but others have expressed it); nor do I understand why the presented issue seems to be indicative of a broken marriage. We aren't privy to the details - only what the OP knows/says.

My husband is the head of my home and if he were to insist on something like this (although, in my case, he defers to me on education generally) it would be with good reason, not because he doubted my teaching skills or lacked respect for me. Far more likely that he worries about me for some reason and recognizes that I tend to think emotionally about our children, not always logically. Perhaps he sees a strain on my relationship with the children because of homeschooling, or that I am under too much stress (but knows me well enough to know I won't bow out willingly); perhaps he sees a child struggling and me not teaching it correctly because I can't understand their frustration - often. Perhaps he does see behaviour he considers socially unacceptable (an opinion that is just as valid as Mom's that the child is "fine").

I would not assume that this couple (described in the OP) have a broken marriage based solely off what the op said.

 

What's more, belonging to several HS and SAHM groups, I have had the honor of hearing some rather lively conversations bashing husbands and women making themselves out to be the victim to their peers, while then cooing about their husbands on Facebook or to his face. Women can be manipulative when they want their peers to see things from their point of view - which is just as likely as the husband being a douche given the stats I've rounded up just attending support meetings in my area for HS/SAHM moms.

 

You are mixing causes, events, and situations and it is difficult to respond.

 

I wrote what I did (and the others, too, I presume) because of the combination of the marital dynamic (authoritarian) and the description of the husband about his own children. The word choices and perception of his kids adds to the concern.

[Audrey]

Honestly, I cannot fathom this. I think I'd leave my husband. I would put my kids in school for a good reason (such as we direly need more money and I need to work, or I dropped dead). But the reasons he states aren't good enough. I'd consider it an insult towards me for all the years of effort I put into homeschooling.

 

 

I cannot fathom it either, but mostly because I can't fathom that my husband would think he had the right to "insist" on anything. Our family is not his little dictatorship. Things get discussed. Most often, he sees how right I am. Sometimes, he might convince me otherwise. Either way, no one "insists" on anything.

[Kirch]

What I don't get is the assumption that all marriages with one more authoritarian spouse is doomed and horrible (not your view, necessarily, but others have expressed it); nor do I understand why the presented issue seems to be indicative of a broken marriage. We aren't privy to the details - only what the OP knows/says.

My husband is the head of my home and if he were to insist on something like this (although, in my case, he defers to me on education generally) it would be with good reason, not because he doubted my teaching skills or lacked respect for me. Far more likely that he worries about me for some reason and recognizes that I tend to think emotionally about our children, not always logically. Perhaps he sees a strain on my relationship with the children because of homeschooling, or that I am under too much stress (but knows me well enough to know I won't bow out willingly); perhaps he sees a child struggling and me not teaching it correctly because I can't understand their frustration - often. Perhaps he does see behaviour he considers socially unacceptable (an opinion that is just as valid as Mom's that the child is "fine").

I would not assume that this couple (described in the OP) have a broken marriage based solely off what the op said.

 

 

But surely if that scenario came up in your relationship, your dh would *tell* you those reasonable reasons? Would he be open to discussion and hearing your POV? In the OP, the dh's reasons seem pretty lame and you get the impression (or at least it seems that most of us did) that he's not up for discussion about it or interested in hearing his wife's perspective. Granted, we don't have much info. It's possible that there were many discussions of the issues and this is the wife's summary of her dh's decision that she's still not happy with. Given the info in the OP, though, it doesn't sound like it.

 

It's one thing for the husband to be the leader of the home. I think it's another for him to insist on doing things his way completely against the wishes and convictions of his wife in something that will drastically change the lives of their children and impact their family forever. A good leader listens to and respects the ideas, opinions, and convictions of those who work with him, especially those who are "in the trenches"--and especially when he's NOT in the trenches (at least not daily). Handing down unilateral edicts from on high is not leadership. That's being a dictator. And I don't believe that fits the model of biblical family leadership. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church. Christ laid down His life for the church. Ignoring your wife's thoughts, convictions, opinions--especially on something as major as the education of your children--doesn't seem like sacrificial love--or even just respect--to me.

[Mama2Many4]

So I'm wondering what the OP knows so far. Is the father bending? Are they going to PS? Inquiring minds what to know.

[FO4UR]

What I don't agree with is the repeated assumption that getting into (and out of) an authoritarian marriage is as simple as being strong, not going there, not marrying him, and leaving. The abuse cycle is more insidious than that.

 

 

Right! ..or that the dh isn't considering her reasons for hs b/c she lacks communication skills.

 

*If* things are as the OP has said, I would venture to guess that *if* the woman stood her ground (maybe merely giving her logical argument for hs) that she would be in danger of losing something important to her. There is an underlying current of blackmail/manipulation...otherwise, WHY!?! would a mother go along with something that she felt was very wrong for her dc?

 

Even if the only thing she would lose is her good standing as a "Good Submissive Wife," she is in a vulnerable position.

 

I'm not giving the OP or the woman any advice. I think it's striking that it has been repeated that the woman needs to communicate better with her husband, bargain with him, etc...It takes 2 to communicate, and bargaining power may be EXACTLY what her dh wants to gain. (I let you hs, so you'd better...)

 

I am not one who thinks that it simply needs to be mom's way, but this thread would not be quite so provoking if the OP stated a dh and dw who were drawing up a list of pros/cons together.

[Alicia64]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm the original OP. I've never met my friend's dh. In fact, I'm learning -- in the days since I posted -- that this guy is mentally abusive. And my friend has tremendous guilt for having kids w/ him etc.

 

Is he physically abusive? I don't know. He's disrespectful towards her and very dictatorial. (If I understand things right, the kids wouldn't be in ps until Sept.)

 

Now I really don't know what to say to her. But I am familiar w/ the cycle of violence and I know how hard it is to extract oneself out of these situations.

 

My father and mother were were physically and mentally abusive and I know how the victims can be worn down to a nub and not be able to function well because of all of the, "you're so stupid" comments.

 

My friend raves about her own kind, loving parents -- who also believe in Christian submission. So I'm not sure how supportive they'll be if she asks for their help. I'm not sure.

 

I'm seeing her this week and will learn more.

 

But if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. I can't stress what a kind, sweet person this is. Abusers pick their victims well.

 

Thanks for all your caring comments -- very thought provoking.

 

Alley

Edited November 27, 2011 by Alicia64

[kwg]

My heart goes out to her :grouphug: And I think it is a really good sign that she is talking to you.

 

If it were me, I would probably just listen for a while. If you jump in with a bunch of suggestions and leave your husband stuff (not saying you are even thinking of that-) it is likely to scare her. The fact that she is sharing with you means she is thinking that this is not right.

 

I am not one that believes in submission but surely there are parameters around such things? If they are religious perhaps some counseling with their pastor......hopefully he/she could help them work out some better boundaries? Even if she just went in by herself if he refused? Maybe he could help her find her strength? Not necessarily to leave him but to just know she deserves better.

[SailorMom]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm the original OP. I've never met my friend's dh. In fact, I'm learning -- in the days since I posted -- that this guy is mentally abusive. And my friend has tremendous guilt for having kids w/ him etc.

 

Is he physically abusive? I don't know. He's disrespectful towards her and very dictatorial. (If I understand things right, the kids wouldn't be in ps until Sept.)

 

Now I really don't know what to say to her. But I am familiar w/ the cycle of violence and I know how hard it is to extract oneself out of these situations.

 

My father and mother were were physically and mentally abusive and I know how the victims can be worn down to a nub and not be able to function well because of all of the, "you're so stupid" comments.

 

My friend raves about her own kind, loving parents -- who also believe in Christian submission. So I'm not sure how supportive they'll be if she asks for their help. I'm not sure.

 

I'm seeing her this week and will learn more.

 

But if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. I can't stress what a kind, sweet person this is. Abusers pick their victims well.

 

Thanks for all your caring comments -- very thought provoking.

 

Alley

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I would hesitate to offer much in the way of advice to her - other than to seek counseling. If he won't go with her, then she should go alone.

But you can offer her an ear and a shoulder :)

[Love_to_Read]

School might not be such a bad place. I haven't read the whole thread..just the OP and the most recent post by the OP. So, I don't know what's been discussed as far as extremes. I would not counsel her to leave or anything like that...as joanne said, the dynamic isn't that simple. And it would need to come from her, from reaching her own personal limit to what she will tolerate, as opposed to someone else's opinion.

 

So, I wouldn't necessarily go there yet...but in the back of my mind is the thought that if things ever get "worse," however that friend would define worse, it's not such a bad thing to have allies at school...teachers who know that mom is involved, who can see that mom is a kind, sweet, caring parent....and who may be able to see that dad isn't. It's not a guarentee, some abusers put on a very good front...but at least there's a hope of getting teachers intuitive enough to get a creepy vibe from the abusive parent, or who might build enough rapport with the children directly to get their perspective. Those factors might make school somewhat of a more protective place to be than to be homeschooling all alone if/when something happens to the marriage...if it ever comes down to a court situation in which the parents divorce or are legally separated, it might be helpful to have the kids in view of the school personnel, as opposed to home...because someone who is mentally abusive is likely to twist anything he can.

 

9, 10, 11 aren't great ages to enter public school, but they are probably better than 12, 13, 14, 15. If he's insisting on this now, I don't think it will go away. She could gamble on asking him to wait until high school. That might be the lesser of two evils, if she is fairly certain that they can continue on with the status quo. But, if things are particularly unstable, it might be best to acquiesce now in late elementary rather than risk it happening in middle school. If things ever do escalate to a situation where she would wish to leave (or if he would ever abandon her), the courts would likely rule in favor of public school as well. There are some kids for which it is worth fighting that fight, and some states where that battle is less hopeless than others, but if it looks like a losing proposition, then it may well be safest to put them in now and learn the ropes of protecting them within the elementary school environment, even though it is not what one would chose within a healthier situation.

 

I'm so sorry your friend and her children are going through this. :(

Edited November 27, 2011 by Love_to_Read

[DawnM]

Well, given the new light.....I agree with being a listening and caring ear and praying for all involved.

 

Dawn

[juelle]

Many parts of her story are familiar to me. I am learning to take better care of myself, but it's hard. Miraculously, I have seen beautiful changes in our marriage recently. The 'Breaking Free' Bible study was a big part of my journey. I'm working through the 'Boundaries in Marriage' book now. May God bless her in every way.

[AuntieM]

You might want to help her find a counselor, one that will respect her spiritual values but one who has no ties to her church. If she were my friend, and recognize that the dh is abusive, I would help her find a great counselor - for herself, first, not for the couple - who will help her understand the definition of spousal mental abuse/manipulation. She needs to have a picture painted for her of what normal should look like. She has perhaps been living under his domination for so long that she can no longer recognize normal and healthy.

 

I would not be comfortable giving specific advice to her, but I would stand ready as a loving, listening friend. I would also keep my own dh in the loop and decide with him how involved we should plan to be in the event she needs a sudden sanctuary.

 

:grouphug: You probably never expected to be in a situation like this. You are a good friend.

[Alicia64]

 

:grouphug: You probably never expected to be in a situation like this. You are a good friend.

 

Not in the least did I expect this situation from a friend.

 

I appreciate everyone reminding me not to give advice. I once heard, "if a counselor tells a victim to leave the abuser, the victim will leave the counselor."

 

I completely forgot about that until reading your words on here. Thank you.

 

Love to Read (me too, btw): you know, you make an excellent point about a teacher supporting my friend. I've never met the dh but my friend says consistently that he's very, very charming in the world and difficult at home.

 

I believe her wholeheartedly because my mom and dad did the exact same thing. Still do. They come across as the most affable, friendly people -- but it's another story at home. Their friends would be shocked.

 

So I know what my friend means when she says that her husband regularly fools people. It frightens her that nobody will believe her.

 

Still, I'm going to float the idea that the school may end up supporting her.

 

You've all been wonderful. Without this "conversation" I wouldn't know what to say/do.

 

I would be a sanctuary for her, btw. I love her and her kids are phenomenal. The girl is a bit quirky, but quirky in a wonderful way. I think I'll purposely not meet the husband or let him know where I live.

 

Thank you,

 

Alley

[StephanieF]

:iagree:

Don't let him know where you live. If she ever does leave him, he may come looking............

Stephanie

[justamouse]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm the original OP. I've never met my friend's dh. In fact, I'm learning -- in the days since I posted -- that this guy is mentally abusive. And my friend has tremendous guilt for having kids w/ him etc.

 

Is he physically abusive? I don't know. He's disrespectful towards her and very dictatorial. (If I understand things right, the kids wouldn't be in ps until Sept.)

 

Now I really don't know what to say to her. But I am familiar w/ the cycle of violence and I know how hard it is to extract oneself out of these situations.

 

My father and mother were were physically and mentally abusive and I know how the victims can be worn down to a nub and not be able to function well because of all of the, "you're so stupid" comments.

 

My friend raves about her own kind, loving parents -- who also believe in Christian submission. So I'm not sure how supportive they'll be if she asks for their help. I'm not sure.

 

I'm seeing her this week and will learn more.

 

But if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. I can't stress what a kind, sweet person this is. Abusers pick their victims well.

 

Thanks for all your caring comments -- very thought provoking.

 

Alley

 

I'm so, so sorry for her. That was my gut feeling reading your post, but I was hoping I was wrong. The subtext of that first post was full of emotional abuse.

 

Just be there. Be loyal, listen, DON'T JUDGE, and just be there. And, for yourself, make a list of places that can help her. That way, if she reaches out to you to leave, you have places to call and resources to help her find.

 

Be a good friend. :grouphug:

 

Just make it known that she can always stay with you, and drop it. Leave it at that. That nuggest will stick in her mind for when she needs it. When I bolted, it was for the safe, loyal, friend's house. She never asked questions, just offered a safe place to stay. And, one day I just did it. I packed it all up, in the worst snowstorm in years, and drove hours upon hours with no licence or insurance to get to her. Knowing I had a place to go is what made leaving possible.

Edited November 27, 2011 by justamouse

[FO4UR]

School might not be such a bad place. I haven't read the whole thread..just the OP and the most recent post by the OP. So, I don't know what's been discussed as far as extremes. I would not counsel her to leave or anything like that...as joanne said, the dynamic isn't that simple. And it would need to come from her, from reaching her own personal limit to what she will tolerate, as opposed to someone else's opinion.

 

So, I wouldn't necessarily go there yet...but in the back of my mind is the thought that if things ever get "worse," however that friend would define worse, it's not such a bad thing to have allies at school...teachers who know that mom is involved, who can see that mom is a kind, sweet, caring parent....and who may be able to see that dad isn't. It's not a guarentee, some abusers put on a very good front...but at least there's a hope of getting teachers intuitive enough to get a creepy vibe from the abusive parent, or who might build enough rapport with the children directly to get their perspective. Those factors might make school somewhat of a more protective place to be than to be homeschooling all alone if/when something happens to the marriage...if it ever comes down to a court situation in which the parents divorce or are legally separated, it might be helpful to have the kids in view of the school personnel, as opposed to home...because someone who is mentally abusive is likely to twist anything he can.

 

9, 10, 11 aren't great ages to enter public school, but they are probably better than 12, 13, 14, 15. If he's insisting on this now, I don't think it will go away. She could gamble on asking him to wait until high school. That might be the lesser of two evils, if she is fairly certain that they can continue on with the status quo. But, if things are particularly unstable, it might be best to acquiesce now in late elementary rather than risk it happening in middle school. If things ever do escalate to a situation where she would wish to leave (or if he would ever abandon her), the courts would likely rule in favor of public school as well. There are some kids for which it is worth fighting that fight, and some states where that battle is less hopeless than others, but if it looks like a losing proposition, then it may well be safest to put them in now and learn the ropes of protecting them within the elementary school environment, even though it is not what one would chose within a healthier situation.

 

I'm so sorry your friend and her children are going through this. :(

 

 

These are good thoughts. Getting the kids acclimated to school now might be the best in the long-term, especially if she needs to leave him. Has she thought along the lines of working outside the home, gaining some independence?

 

I wish my hunch were wrong.:crying::grouphug:

 

 

I agree that all you can do is be a friend and encourage her in every way possible. Be open to physicaly helping her.

[Joanne]

OP,

 

2 books to recommend to her:

 

The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans

Why Does He Do That: inside the minds of abusive and controlling men by Lundy Bancroft