Jean in Newcastle Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 We were at the local elementary yesterday for dd9's speech therapy. There was a boy sitting in the office with a book because he had a religious exemption from attending the Veteran's Day assembly. I figure it must be related to pacifism but what religions specifically would be against such an assembly? Or is pacifism itself considered enough for a religious exemption. (This is just one of those things I'm curious about. That's all!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 JW ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myeightkiddies Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 JW ? :iagree: It is most likely this, but I don't know for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Either that or an extreme Islamist family that doesn't share the US values of FREEDOM. :confused: I know someone who travels in the fringe of Mennonites, and her little group won't have anything to do with picking "sides" in a political sense, and the military is strictly OUT. I think if we were invaded, they would pray a great deal. They are very kind and sweet folks, and I don't begrudge them their attempts at unworldliness. I don't have a raging fear their example will make their numbers swell and leave us a vulnerable country. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Quaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Wow, a post deleted in less than 10 minutes. That's quick! Makes me wonder if board members are really moderators. I know the "answer" has been "no" but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Mennonite, Amish & Quaker come to mind. Don't know if you have an Amish or Mennonite community in your neck of the woods, though but I suppose it's possible. It is also possible that his parents just feel strongly about this and requested him to be exempt with no apparent religious affiliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Not that this is the best source, but it mentions JW children sitting out Veterans' Day and Memorial Day activities: http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=105669 Same for this: http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/holidays.php (which is an association of former JW). I don't know if Quaker kids would have to be excluded. I could see where some might choose to, but it's my understanding that Quakers weren't automatically exempted from the draft, but were able to do non-combative work for the military. I'm not a Quaker and don't play one on TV, but I don't think their policy of conscientious objection would preclude them from honoring those who did serve. I could be wrong, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I am so glad someone else asked about this. Last week, I was helping in my son's K class. One student wasn't coloring a flag or writing a thank you to our soldiers page. I thought I was "helping" and tried to get that student back on track with the others. He said that he couldn't. I didn't catch on very quickly because his articulation wasn't clear, but he told me that he is a Jehovah's Witness. I feel bad that I still didn't get it and thought that he was just talking in the way of 5 year olds with extraneous info. I basically said "well that's nice, here is a flag page." Good thing, that the child was very informed and patient with me. He said he couldn't color a flag because he doesn't celebrate things. I am completely baffled by this point as to how honoring veterans and being able to color a flag could be against one's religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Not that this is the best source, but it mentions JW children sitting out Veterans' Day and Memorial Day activities: Same for this: which is an association of former JW). http://watchtower.org/ Here is the official site of JWs....just in case anyone wants to know what they believe. Or you could even ASK a JW what they believe. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Interestingly, google didn't give me the watchtower page on the first page of links when I looked up jehovah's witness & veteran's day. I just now looked up Veterans Day on the watchtower site, and I was taken to an article on stress. One of the sites did say that Watchtower did have a booklet for teachers on what they believe and how it's related to the classroom. That said, I think the OP was just trying to guess what religion might preclude participation in the assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Mennonite, Amish & Quaker come to mind. Don't know if you have an Amish or Mennonite community in your neck of the woods, though but I suppose it's possible. It is also possible that his parents just feel strongly about this and requested him to be exempt with no apparent religious affiliation. I guess this was part of my question. I don't know public schools very well and wasn't sure if a strong opinion about something was "official enough" to be counted as a reason for exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Makes me wonder if board members are really moderators. I know the "answer" has been "no" but... I've never seen a message board where the mods weren't also members… I'd assume that they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginszoo Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My best guess would be JW, too. The Quakers and Mennonites I've known certainly wouldn't join the military themselves, but they wouldn't necessarily have objections to honoring those who served, especially as part of the country's history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I've never seen a message board where the mods weren't also members… I'd assume that they are. Yes, but which ones? (insert evil laugh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If my boys attended public school, they would be sitting out for that, too. We do not have a denominational affiliation. My family are simply Christians. We do homechurch. And we are pacifists; which to us means we do not celebrate or support war/the military in any way. We believe killing is killing, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, ANY circumstances. We also do not participate in government farther than obeying the laws. Please do not flame me, I'm simply stating what my family believes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If my boys attended public school, they would be sitting out for that, too. We do not have a denominational affiliation. My family are simply Christians. We do homechurch. And we are pacifists; which to us means we do not celebrate or support war/the military in any way. We believe killing is killing, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, ANY circumstances. We also do not participate in government farther than obeying the laws. Please do not flame me, I'm simply stating what my family believes. I didn't know that about you. Thanks for sharing. And you are very brave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 IME, Amish and Mennonites have their own schools and don't allow their children to attend regular public schools, so my guess is that the child is from a JW family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If my boys attended public school, they would be sitting out for that, too. We do not have a denominational affiliation. My family are simply Christians. We do homechurch. And we are pacifists; which to us means we do not celebrate or support war/the military in any way. We believe killing is killing, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, ANY circumstances. We also do not participate in government farther than obeying the laws. Please do not flame me, I'm simply stating what my family believes. I also didn't know that about you. But from reading other post of yours in the past, it seems we think alike in a lot of ways. Thanks for sharing! OP- There are a few religions where one might sit out. JW comes to mind first, but we are..so that might be why. :) I have a really big hippy friend who doesn't allow her children to participate in anything involving war or patriotism. They are agnostic, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 My family are simply Christians. Love that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoforjoy Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I didn't know that about you. Thanks for sharing. And you are very brave. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If my boys attended public school, they would be sitting out for that, too. We do not have a denominational affiliation. My family are simply Christians. We do homechurch. And we are pacifists; which to us means we do not celebrate or support war/the military in any way. We believe killing is killing, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, ANY circumstances. We also do not participate in government farther than obeying the laws. Please do not flame me, I'm simply stating what my family believes. Can I ask a question? How does this work in a situation of self defence? Say someone attacks you - are you allowed to defend yourself physically? Only to a certain point? What about defending your family? I'm not flaming, just asking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would defend myself and my family, but I would not kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 If my boys attended public school, they would be sitting out for that, too. We do not have a denominational affiliation. My family are simply Christians. We do homechurch. And we are pacifists; which to us means we do not celebrate or support war/the military in any way. We believe killing is killing, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, ANY circumstances. We also do not participate in government farther than obeying the laws. Please do not flame me, I'm simply stating what my family believes. No flames here. I give you nothing but respect for the bolded above. I'd give you a standing ovation for it, but I can't find that smilie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would guess JW only because of a family I knew back when I was in high school. I attended a private school (it's a K-12 school) that, at the time, required all boys to take JROTC in high school. The family allowed their daughter to continue attending, but they pulled their son out after 8th grade. Not being close friends with the daughter, I'd only heard that the son was pulled because of the JROTC requirement. I don't know the details behind the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I know someone who travels in the fringe of Mennonites, and her little group won't have anything to do with picking "sides" in a political sense, and the military is strictly OUT. I think if we were invaded, they would pray a great deal. They are very kind and sweet folks, and I don't begrudge them their attempts at unworldliness. I don't have a raging fear their example will make their numbers swell and leave us a vulnerable country. :D My dad, Mennonite, was a CO and worked without pay (well, he got $7 a week) in a home for troubled boys for two years instead of signing up for the draft. My uncles also served as CO's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I disagree with you but I won't flame you. From my POV, veterans served and many died so that we can all enjoy freedom of speech and freedom of religion. You and I can completely disagree and that's ok. Sounds like you have strong beliefs and stand by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriwether Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 IME, Amish and Mennonites have their own schools and don't allow their children to attend regular public schools, so my guess is that the child is from a JW family. Many Mennonites attend public school. Not so many Amish. Many Mennonites and Amish do not involve themselves in politics. Of my aunts and uncles (the whole overpopulating mess of us), about half are still apolitical. The rest are rabid.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Of my aunts and uncles (the whole overpopulating mess of us), D :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) You do realize that sometimes defending one's self and family does mean killing. Sometimes the only way to stop an attacker is to kill him. So would you die or kill? Don't bait her. We all know what a rah-rah military fan you are. I may not agree with Bethany on everything, or most things, but she believes what she believes and she certainly doesn't need to explain it or defend it to you, or me, or anyone else here. ETA: Don't bother asking me if I'm picking on you again, either. I'm taking a board break for a little while. All the baby mania is too sad at the moment considering my niece just delivered a stillborn. No need for killing when dying happens all the time anyway. Edited November 10, 2011 by Audrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You do realize that sometimes defending one's self and family does mean killing. Sometimes the only way to stop an attacker is to kill him. So would you die or kill? She already said she wouldn't kill, so she's already made that decision and answered your question before you asked it. If you're not ready to kill, then you won't. No need to badger her about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Don't bait her. We all know what a rah-rah military fan you are. I may not agree with Bethany on everything, or most things, but she believes what she believes and she certainly doesn't need to explain it or defend it to you, or me, or anyone else here. She already said she wouldn't kill, so she's already made that decision and answered your question before you asked it. If you're not ready to kill, then you won't. No need to badger her about it. Bethany, I agree with the two nice ladies above. It is so nice to see them defend your right to believe what you believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 She also said she would defend so which one is it? If defend = kill which one? But "defend" does not automatically = kill. I held an attacker at knife point once and did not kill him. I held him off and screamed very loudly for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 She also said she would defend so which one is it? If defend = kill which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 Who is attacking the right to belief? I was looking for a finer definition of the poster's beliefs. The poster was not the OP (me!). I appreciate her perspective. She simply shared her perspective in order to answer my original question as to who might want to sit out from such an assembly. She did not join a thread on why she might hold such a view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Who is attacking the right to belief? I was looking for a finer definition of the poster's beliefs. Really? Cuz I thought you were doing this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Really? Cuz I thought you were doing this [ATTACH]6865[/ATTACH] Sorry. I just had to post that again. Isn't that the cutest emoticon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 She also said she would defend so which one is it? If defend = kill which one? I took her to mean that she would defend to the best of her abilities without killing. Again, if you aren't ready to kill, then you won't. It's something most people have to be mentally prepared to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 But "defend" does not automatically = kill. I held an attacker at knife point once and did not kill him. I held him off and screamed very loudly for help. :bigear: Wow! That is awesome. I wold like to hear that story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 ...but it can mean kill. Sometimes there is no choice. The question for pacifists is "will you kill to save your child or will you let your child die so as not to kill?" This is not pot stirring, I have not thrown names I have asked a question, an uncomfortable one...yes but a simple question. I would not kill another person for any reason. I don't know how much plainer to make it for you, pqr, as I've already said it once. IMO, it is either ok to take another's life, or it isn't. And for me, it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would not kill another person for any reason. I don't know how much plainer to make it for you, pqr, as I've already said it once. IMO, it is either ok to take another's life, or it isn't. And for me, it isn't. Question answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoGal Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Um... back to the subject at hand... ;) I would guess Jehovah's witness. I believe they do not celebrate any holidays other than their own special one(s). So they don't celebrate birthdays or anything. Just because they want to save holidays/celebrations for the one(s) that are specifically jw (sorry I don't remember if it was one or more). At least that is how a parent explained it to me when I was a teacher and her daughter was in my class. I never had her daughter to leave the classroom, though, we just adjusted some activities (focused on harvest instead of halloween, etc.). Anyway, my guess is that it doesn't have to do with not celebrating Veteran's Day specifically, but just any holiday (besides their own). Could be wrong, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would not kill another person for any reason. I don't know how much plainer to make it for you, pqr, as I've already said it once. IMO, it is either ok to take another's life, or it isn't. And for me, it isn't. My cousin feels the same way. She is single. I always wonder though, if someone is going to kill your child, do you let them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Um... back to the subject at hand... ;) I would guess Jehovah's witness. I believe they do not celebrate any holidays other than their own special one(s). So they don't celebrate birthdays or anything. Just because they want to save holidays/celebrations for the one(s) that are specifically jw (sorry I don't remember if it was one or more). At least that is how a parent explained it to me when I was a teacher and her daughter was in my class. I never had her daughter to leave the classroom, though, we just adjusted some activities (focused on harvest instead of halloween, etc.). Anyway, my guess is that it doesn't have to do with not celebrating Veteran's Day specifically, but just any holiday (besides their own). Could be wrong, though. Sort of wrong. When we don't celebrate a holiday it is for very specific reasons...not just that we are anti-holiday....or anti fun. We like fun. And it was very kind of you to adjust classroom activities for that JW child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) My cousin feels the same way. She is single. I always wonder though, if someone is going to kill your child, do you let them? You know, it seems here that some would like to discuss ideas regarding pacifism. Perhaps someone who is interested would like to start a new thread, as Jean's OP was asking more about the religious aspect. Edited November 10, 2011 by bethanyniez clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Sort of wrong. When we don't celebrate a holiday it is for very specific reasons...not just that we are anti-holiday....or anti fun. We like fun. And it was very kind of you to adjust classroom activities for that JW child. Agreed. My husband and I actually celebrate a lot of things. Anniversaries, Talk like a Pirate Day (not joking!), Thankful Day (a holiday a friend made up) and few others like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 The poster was not the OP (me!). I appreciate her perspective. She simply shared her perspective in order to answer my original question as to who might want to sit out from such an assembly. She did not join a thread on why she might hold such a view. If my boys attended public school, they would be sitting out for that, too. We do not have a denominational affiliation. My family are simply Christians. We do homechurch. And we are pacifists; which to us means we do not celebrate or support war/the military in any way. We believe killing is killing, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, ANY circumstances. We also do not participate in government farther than obeying the laws. Please do not flame me, I'm simply stating what my family believes. Bethany posted an unusual stance - and she even EMPHASIZED with a second strong sentence… this is, naturally, going to catch people's attention. As it turns out, PQR just put stronger words to the question that I was asking her… because the first thing I thought was "what if someone is trying to kill your child?" [and it was not a flame.. it was an honest question] The question from the original post *could* have been answered without the additional detail… if you add details that stick out, people are going to notice them - and given that this is a discussion board, people are gonna make comments. Is it a fun question? Nope. Is it a valid question given the bolded statement? I think so. [and it appears to have been answered] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susann Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I disagree with you but I won't flame you. From my POV, veterans served and many died so that we can all enjoy freedom of speech and freedom of religion. You and I can completely disagree and that's ok. Sounds like you have strong beliefs and stand by them. :iagree: love the different POV expressed on this board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 (edited) You know, it seems here that some would like to discuss ideas regarding pacifism. Perhaps someone who is interested would like to start a new thread, as Jean's OP was asking more about the religious aspect. Fair enough. I am a pacifist, and I would never willingly take a human life. However. I do know myself well enough that (given the chance), I would *take down* in any way possible, *anyone* who tried to harm a child in front of me. If it were my child, I would be kicked into hyper-drive Edited November 11, 2011 by LibraryLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I know Jehovah's Witnesses here whose children do not participate in any holiday celebrations.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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