Multiple math programs . . Why??

[farming_mum]

I don't understand why some people use two math programs at the same time. For example Singapore and CLE. Doesn't Singapore cover everything needed??

 

I have recently bought all the manipulatives and books for Saxon maths - expensive exercise. I don't think it suits us as I am unable to run through each lesson with each child they way the teachers manual requires and I find the quality of the workbook paper quite poor.

 

I have been thinking about using Singapore Maths instead but don't understand the need to use another program with it as SM seems to cover everything required.

 

Thanks

[Lots of boys]

We use TT and Miquon. I agree with you that SM math covers everything so you don't need to use another program. We use two because we start our kiddos off with Miquon in K and they slowly work through the books until the end of 3rd. We start TT in 2nd as our base program but still use Miquon until finished (so overlap for two years). I really like Miquon and how it introduces concepts and the kids enjoy it. TT however will run through highschool - which Miquon won't do.

[SpreadingtheFeast]

Because my little one can't get enough of it! But yes, Singapore all by itself is plenty.

[abbeyej]

Well, I've had one student who was extremely apt when it comes to math and one that has struggled. In both cases, I've chosen to use multiple programs. For my better math student, it was a matter of providing greater challenge and depth -- really giving him the opportunity to explore and figure out new things on his own. For my weaker student, layering multiple programs has helped reinforce concepts that were challenging for her. Multiple approaches have really helped her when any single one might have gone right past her.

 

I used Singapore as one of our programs with my son. It has great depth (particularly if you use the CWP and IP books) and really does a good job of teaching kids multiple strategies and getting them to think through the implications of whatever concept they're working on. Great word problems. ... Singapore is lacking in drill (it's assumed that kids will have that as a separate class), and while it has that great depth in some areas, it skips various skills that we typically expect to be included in elementary math. (This is addressed somewhat in the Standards books, but whether or not that's at the expense of some of Singapore's other strengths, I don't know.) When I used Singapore with my son, we chose to do Horizons as well. Horizons doesn't have the fabulous word problems that Singapore does, but it has constant review and practice (which Singapore does not), and a greater breadth of types of problems and concepts. We also used a lot of supplements as he was working through elementary math: Zaccaro's Challenge Math books, Number Devil (book and software), Math Olympiad practice problems and competition, and more.

 

For my daughter, at least until recently, she just wouldn't have "gotten" Singapore. She'd have done the work, but the real conceptual thinking that think is so great about Singapore would not really have gotten through to her. (She has made significant strides this year, and I may go back and start doing some of the CWP work a little below her grade level soon...) Horizons has offered regular practice and review and she has done fine with it, but again, her understanding wasn't really where I wanted it to be. (And it's possible I'm a little skewed by having a first child who just *gets* math...) This year we've added in Teaching Textbooks 5 (she's finishing up Horizons 4 now). I can't imagine using it alone. It only takes a few minutes a day, there are only about 25 problems total per day, it's not nearly the challenge or the practice I would expect. BUT it has done a tremendous job of building her confidence in math. She feels capable for the first time, and that's nothing to sneeze at. The computer is endlessly patient, and she loves getting 100s day after day. We've also added in Timez Attack, which has been slow-going for her, but now, after about 2.5 months, she's nearly through the multiplication program. It has helped her ability to do her regular math tremendously, and other strategies for times tables had simply not worked as well for her. She does it for about 15 minutes every school day. We also pulled in Life of Fred this year. She did Cats and Dogs and is now using LoF Fractions. Again, it's just one more approach to layer in there. So now she does a math game (Timez Attack) on the computer every day, a computer lesson (Teaching Textbooks), two workbook lessons per day (Horizons), and a snuggle-on-the-couch lesson (Fred). Her progress this year has been tremendous, and truly *not* something I think she could have accomplished with any single approach. And, strangely, the greater focus on math has actually made her enjoy it more, since there's less frustration.

 

Obviously math fluency is very important to me. Whether I have a child that delights to play with numbers, or one who needs a lot of help, I want them coming out of elementary arithmetic with a strong foundation. I think Singapore can be a great part of that. Other programs are great too. But where each has its strengths, it also has weaknesses. Where one teaches a concept this way, another teaches it that way and that other way. Layering them together gives more practice, more opportunity to stretch...

 

In language arts, we spend time on many different areas. No one thinks twice about using one book for grammar and one for writing and pulling in readings from a variety of sources. We love creating a "language rich" environment for our kids. We may do that in a variety of ways, but it's something many of us strive for. ... I think it's important to do the same with math -- and some of that is a matter of "programs" and some of it is cooking and playing math games (we like the RightStart games and Muggins among others) and setting up "stores" and ... But I just don't think one-workbook-a-day-for-45-minutes can ever offer as rich a math experience as I hope for for my kids.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I use two math programs for my oldest but not at the same time. I'm not worried about one program not covering everything, it just works better for her. We do one program until she gets stuck or we are ready for a change, then switch to the other. Math is not her strongest or favorite subject, and she enjoys the review and reinforcement between the two programs.

[higginszoo]

For us, it helped slow them down. Different programs also approached concepts from different angles, which gave them a deeper understanding of how numbers work. But mostly, it was because there aren't many algebra programs out there that are age-appropriate for 8 year olds.

[Spy Car]

I used Singapore as one of our programs with my son. It has great depth (particularly if you use the CWP and IP books) and really does a good job of teaching kids multiple strategies and getting them to think through the implications of whatever concept they're working on. Great word problems. ... Singapore is lacking in drill (it's assumed that kids will have that as a separate class), and while it has that great depth in some areas, it skips various skills that we typically expect to be included in elementary math. (This is addressed somewhat in the Standards books, but whether or not that's at the expense of some of Singapore's other strengths, I don't know.) When I used Singapore with my son, we chose to do Horizons as well. Horizons doesn't have the fabulous word problems that Singapore does, but it has constant review and practice (which Singapore does not), and a greater breadth of types of problems and concepts. We also used a lot of supplements as he was working through elementary math: Zaccaro's Challenge Math books, Number Devil (book and software), Math Olympiad practice problems and competition, and more.

 

 

Your whole post makes the point of why one might use multiple programs very eloquently.

 

To address a minor sub-point that you raise, to my mind the Standards Edition of Primary Mathemarics (Singapore) does an admirable job adding in precisely the practice and review you may have felt lacking in the US Edition, and does so without sacrificing anything that makes Singapore math the strong program that it is.

 

Great post!

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

For us, it helped slow them down. Different programs also approached concepts from different angles, which gave them a deeper understanding of how numbers work. But mostly, it was because there aren't many algebra programs out there that are age-appropriate for 8 year olds.

 

You might enjoy the algebra sections in Ed Zaccaro's Primary Grade Challenge Math. They, and the other fun offering in this book, are aimed at (roughly) 8 year olds. He does a great job making "advanced" topics accessible to children.

 

Bill

[abbeyej]

Your whole post makes the point of why one might use multiple programs very eloquently.

 

To address a minor sub-point that you raise, to my mind the Standards Edition of Primary Mathemarics (Singapore) does an admirable job adding in precisely the practice and review you may have felt lacking in the US Edition, and does so without sacrificing anything that makes Singapore math the strong program that it is.

 

Great post!

 

Bill

 

Thanks. I have heard varying opinions, but have never really taken a close look myself. Standards wasn't around when I was using Singapore with ds.

[sassenach]

We use Singapore, but we are supplementing with CLE as an experiment this year. Not sure if we'll stick with it. IMO, Singapore is heads and feet above CLE. Seeing them side by side (not just the samples, but the actual program) has solidified my love of Singapore. HOWEVER, the kids love the independent nature of CLE and it has made for an easy review program. In my perfect world there would exist a CLE style review book for Singapore. The kids love the little check boxes, the drill, the flashcards...mom loves the way CLE reviews a little bit of everything they have learned every day. But no way would I give up Singapore and the way it trains my kids' mathematical thinking.

[sassenach]

Your whole post makes the point of why one might use multiple programs very eloquently.

 

To address a minor sub-point that you raise, to my mind the Standards Edition of Primary Mathemarics (Singapore) does an admirable job adding in precisely the practice and review you may have felt lacking in the US Edition, and does so without sacrificing anything that makes Singapore math the strong program that it is.

 

Great post!

 

Bill

 

:iagree: We used the US edition for 1st and 2nd grade, without HIG. I tried and loathed the US HIG. Toward the end of 2nd, ds was starting to really struggle with Singapore. This year, I decided to switch to Standards for no other reason than the fact that Bill keeps harping on how much better the HIG is. He is so right! It really makes the program. I think without this switch, we may have left Singapore, but now I am head over heals in love again. So thanks, Bill.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We use multiple math programs for many of the same reasons others have stated. Actually, we use multiple programs for most subjects.

 

I choose each program for its unique strength.

 

We like the Standards edition better here, too. :001_smile:

[Cynful]

In my perfect world there would exist a CLE style review book for Singapore.

 

Awesome idea. :) Wish they had that.....

[justLisa]

We use Singapore, and MM. They are quite similar actually, however we really like the looks of SM better. I love the HIG, and the textbook almost teaches DS on his own. Of course we go over the lesson but the textbook in color works out examples and is easy to follow. Now that I have SM I actually love MM again, because I don't feel like I'm missing something. MM is inexpensive and I really LOVE her clock section. DS soared through that and it was so very complete that he was completely clock fluent in one week.

 

And the same reason we read MCT lit, and have 3 separate and "complete" LA curriculum, writing, grammar, etc....

 

I just can't use the same thing day after day after day and fully appreciate it for what it's worth.

 

But I think the question was is SM all you need, and YES, I do believe that it is.

Edited November 4, 2011 by 425lisamarie

[Missouri Okie]

I just finished doing a lesson in RS B with my son. In the lesson there is a quote by the noted mathematics educator Polya. It says, "It is much better to solve one problem in six different ways than it is to solve six problems the same way."

 

This is another reason for using multiple math programs.

[ThreeBlessings]

I just finished doing a lesson in RS B with my son. In the lesson there is a quote by the noted mathematics educator Polya. It says, "It is much better to solve one problem in six different ways than it is to solve six problems the same way."

 

This is another reason for using multiple math programs.

 

 

:iagree: I like to use a variety of resources mainly because the concepts are presented in different ways, so they stretch their brains to wrap around different approaches.

[ondreeuh]

Some kids need a certain approach for new teaching, and a different approach for review. In order to meet my kid's needs in both areas, I use Math Mammoth for new teaching (stays on one topic while working towards mastery) and Saxon for review (reviews everything, every day).

 

We did CLE for the past 2 years. CLE is very similar to Saxon, just in a worktext format and with better (more visual) explanations. The fragmented, incremental approach didn't lead to mastery after all, so we had to repeat it in Saxon. Since we aren't covering anything new in Saxon, I can use MM for new teaching. Using 2 programs allows me to get the best of both.

[NittanyJen]

I don't understand why some people use two math programs at the same time. For example Singapore and CLE. Doesn't Singapore cover everything needed??

 

I have recently bought all the manipulatives and books for Saxon maths - expensive exercise. I don't think it suits us as I am unable to run through each lesson with each child they way the teachers manual requires and I find the quality of the workbook paper quite poor.

 

I have been thinking about using Singapore Maths instead but don't understand the need to use another program with it as SM seems to cover everything required.

 

Thanks

 

I have a kiddo that falls into the "2E" category-- he has both learning disabilities and he tests as extremely gifted in math and general cognition.

 

In every subject, I have found that he "gets it" very quickly, and could move right on. However... He does better in the long run if he sees the same material presented different ways, not spiral, but all at the same time.

 

In history, we read seven different accounts of the Trojan War. We have 9 different books on Greek mythology. We use black line maps, a history atlas, a world map, a regional map, the maps in Kingfisher and Usborne, mapping from memory, and a globe.

 

Similarly, in math, we use Singapore, Math Mammoth, Khan Academy, Hot Dots, Rocket Math, discussion, Life of Fred elementary series, Cuisinaire Rods, Fraction Stacks, etc.

 

The challenge is that he gets bored easily. Once we have covered the textbook lessons in Singapore, the workbook is often not challenging enough, but the IP book is a great fit. With the other resources, I can often tailor them to cover the same material in more detail or in greater depth or in some way create a challenge for him (he is in Sing 3A right now). The Fred books are great for this-- after 2 months we are still in Apples-- but so are the others.

 

For my older son, we don't have this problem; I have had him dig deep into the older Fred series, and he mines a lot from it-- no more is needed. He takes a break now and then and has fun on Khan Academy or with Penrose the Mathematical Cat. I am toying with the idea of having him concurrently do AoPS just for amusement alongside Fred.

 

One argument for multiple programs (and my thinking about adding in the unnecessary AoPS if we have time for a supplement) is this: we are probably sticking with Fred for 4th--12th grade, or fractions past calculus. I think it is a good idea to have to approach mathematical thinking from more than one point of view, or your brain can kind of get into a rut, rather than becoming flexible.

 

Who knows-- for 2 years of Algebra, I might even supplement with AoPS one year and something like Dolciani the other!

 

I would hate to see him get to college and find himself unexpectedly stuck because he was paired up with a resource or professor who thinks along a different track, and he was only taught to think along one!

[zenjenn]

We don't use two programs cover-to-cover, but we supplement heavily.

 

We use TT as our primary math. I selected it at first for my eldest DD who has some learning disabilities and she just benefits SO MUCH from being able to use the computer. The audio-visual is huge for her, as is having to both type and write answers great for reinforcement. (We use both the computer and workbook.) It is also great because she can get an explanation as many times as she needs with a "teacher" that can repeat himself and remains ever calm and patient (unlike me.)

 

TT is also used by my younger DD, who is arguably gifted math, but I already owned it and she thinks it is fun.

 

So supplements get thrown in for different reasons for my two kids.

 

- For my oldest, with learning disabilities, she needs a lot of fact practice, work with manipulatives, and extra reinforcement with extra problems rote extra problems I lift from MM or just a worksheet generator.

 

- My youngest, who is gifted in math, uses TT two years ahead, but even then it is kind of slow for her, so we supplement with some Singapore, MM, or just "let's sit down with a white board" while I give her some challenging problems to solve.

Edited November 4, 2011 by zenjenn

[Five More Minutes]

I don't understand why some people use two math programs at the same time. For example Singapore and CLE. Doesn't Singapore cover everything needed??

 

I have been thinking about using Singapore Maths instead but don't understand the need to use another program with it as SM seems to cover everything required.

 

Thanks

 

Absolutely: Singapore covers everything needed, particularly when you use the HIG (Standards Edition) / Textbook / Workbook / Challenging Word Problems. (I also add in the Intensive Practice.)

 

I still use another math program (Miquon) because ... it's fun to mix it up. :001_smile: (I also find that Miquon an exceptional way for children to discover a math concept that later gets picked up and taught in Singapore Math. However, were it not fun, I wouldn't be adding it in.)

 

If you are facing budget constraints, or if meshing different programs is a headache for you, or if your student wouldn't respond well to multiple math programs, then you can be confident that Singapore will give your student an excellent understanding of math all on its own.

[MamaHappy]

I don't understand why some people use two math programs at the same time. For example Singapore and CLE. Doesn't Singapore cover everything needed??

 

I have recently bought all the manipulatives and books for Saxon maths - expensive exercise. I don't think it suits us as I am unable to run through each lesson with each child they way the teachers manual requires and I find the quality of the workbook paper quite poor.

 

I have been thinking about using Singapore Maths instead but don't understand the need to use another program with it as SM seems to cover everything required.

 

Thanks

 

It's funny you posted this because I just responded to another post where I said I use both CLE and Singapore. After I posted I thought, "I hope the OP doesn't think I mean I use both Singapore and CLE for one kid!" What I meant was that I have one child using Singapore exclusively and one child using CLE exclusively. I love both programs!

 

But yeah, I agree with you, I've often wondered how people can use two math programs?!? I feel one program is time consuming enough, much less two. I'd be way too lazy to use two, lol. I admire people who are willing to put in the time and effort to teach more than one program. :)

[Critterfixer]

But yeah, I agree with you, I've often wondered how people can use two math programs?!? I feel one program is time consuming enough, much less two. I'd be way too lazy to use two, lol. I admire people who are willing to put in the time and effort to teach more than one program.

 

I don't use two whole programs, but I use all of MEP, and some of MM. Why? Review, practice on things that need to be done frequently (time, skip-counting, money) and just for fun (Roman numerals). They happen to like adding with Roman numerals.

And I'm thinking about getting Miquon for more fun.:D

I'm the same way about language arts, though. A reader might be sufficient for comprehension and practice, but it wouldn't be as fun as read-alouds and narration, and dictation, and reading Aesop with our writing program.

Just because it's enough doesn't mean it satisfies, if you know what I mean.

[MamaHappy]

Just because it's enough doesn't mean it satisfies, if you know what I mean.

 

Sooooo true. :)

[LMD]

One of the (many) reasons I love homeschooling is the amazing resources available. Simply, I can't decide on just one, so we do what we can of both, math isn't the only subject I use more than one curriculum in. One is our spine - singapore, one is our supplement - miquon. We do all of singapore, properly, we do some miquon math labs to mix things up, get another perspective, more practice... :)

[edelweiss]

:iagree: I like to use a variety of resources mainly because the concepts are presented in different ways, so they stretch their brains to wrap around different approaches.

 

 

:iagree: This is why we supplement math heavily too. My kids use CLE (they would be absolutely miserable using Singapore and CLE is working amazingly well for them). However, I like them to see problems presented in different ways. So, we also use Life of Fred, Key to Fractions (and will use Key to Decimals next), Mathematical Reasoning, Math Detective, and Challenging Word Problems.

[Beth in SW WA]

:iagree: I like to use a variety of resources mainly because the concepts are presented in different ways, so they stretch their brains to wrap around different approaches.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Our hybrid approach works extremely well here. For math, dd8 is currently using:

 

TT Prealg (on lesson 60....3 lessons/week)

 

Singapore cwp/ip 5 for 2 hours/week via Cybershala.com

 

Singapore 5a/b text/wb with me weekly

 

Hands-On Equations (level 3) daily

 

LOF Fractions, Decimals, Beg Alg (no paper/pencil...just reading only...over & over & over) :)

 

Khan Academy videos

Lucid Ed videos

AOPS videos

Edited November 5, 2011 by Beth in SW WA
clarify

[Walking-Iris]

We use various different math resources as well. Miquon, Kumon, Family Math, Figure It Out, Saxon, random online resources and Scholastic type books and games etc.

 

I think my son would get terribly burned out and bored if we did one thing all the time. He likes going back and doing a fun easy Miquon page or challenging himself with some logic pages.

 

I just like to mix it up and keep it interesting.

[Amy Jo]

Because they exist, and the perfect program doesn't (at least not in my budget). I'm using MEP and Miquon mainly right now. BOTH are great, and I think they are 100% enough (for the levels they cover - Miquon is 1st to 3rd). Miquon is exactly what my 5 yo needs, he can discover things, silly ol' Mom doesn't have to try to tell him (he knows everything already...). It's also helped my kids see (& touch) the ways numbers related to each other. MEP, however, goes further and is never the same twice. I like the puzzles and variety. I like its progression, and its emphasis on mental math and thinking skills.

 

Anyway, I want to go eclectic with math. I'm leaning towards a family, living math approach. We'll be going through Life of Fred Elementary and adding more math games/activities. I would really love to switch to something like MOTL, and teach concepts 3 times a week, with 2 days for fun/family math, and have the kids do just a few targeted review problems. But I think MEP will do this for me.

 

The bottom line is I want better for them than what I had. I was good at math, I learned formulas, memorized facts, plugged in numbers. But I didn't understand much of "why". How the numbers relate to each other. Why do we regroup (we called it borrowing)? Why do we invert fractions to divide? I know, now, and it's cool!

 

Many people use multiple resource for history, it's not that one is inferior, but they like to include more. Why not for math?

Edited November 5, 2011 by mtcougar832
commas

[go_go_gadget]

From a practical perspective: I'm using RS C and SM 2A/2B for my six year-old this year, after very happily using only RS B last year. I chose to use both this year after reading testimony after testimony lamenting the dimming of RS's star with each level after B, and because of that I suspected that we'd be switching to SM entirely for third grade. Having both programs in my possession now, however, I can't find any difference in rigor or excellence, except possibly that RS's scope might actually be broader. I'm also now fairly sure that we'll be using Beast Academy as our main math program next year, so we could certainly have done without the SM this year. I don't regret the purchase, though, because the SM workbooks provide me with an option for independent work when I need extra study myself (I'm an undergrad).

 

From a philosophical perspective: I'm a math major, and what truly sets those with great mathematical ability apart is their ability to approach the same problem from multiple perspectives. Being able to look at a terribly difficult problem and break it down into many smaller and more manageable problems, then solve those and reconvene, is absolutely essential to achievement in higher mathematics. To beat an already dead horse: I always tell my kids that each way of approaching a problem is valuable, because some approaches are more appropriate than others in some contexts, but the reverse in others. You can bang a nail in with the handle of a screwdriver, but it's much easier with a hammer. Conversely, the screwdriver is much better suited to a screw situation than the hammer would be. If you learn carpentry from a person who favors hammers over screwdrivers, you'll be at a disadvantage in screw situations, and vice versa.

 

tl;dr: As many others have said, multiple perspectives are often sought in other disciplines for the same reason that they are valuable in math education.

Edited November 5, 2011 by go_go_gadget

[ChandlerMom]

I agree with what others have said: using different materials allows me to craft a curriculum that is interesting and varied, providing many different perspectives on math. I weave together material from 3 curricula and 2 other resources to keep my dc challenged and interested.

 

I wouldn't use one math program (no matter how solid) and tell my child, "this is what math is" any more than I would give dc one classic novel and say, "this is what good writing is". :D

[Hottater]

:iagree: We used the US edition for 1st and 2nd grade, without HIG. I tried and loathed the US HIG. Toward the end of 2nd, ds was starting to really struggle with Singapore. This year, I decided to switch to Standards for no other reason than the fact that Bill keeps harping on how much better the HIG is. He is so right! It really makes the program. I think without this switch, we may have left Singapore, but now I am head over heals in love again. So thanks, Bill.

 

Bill, would you recommend a switch after us 1B? I already purchased US everything IB, don't want to ditch it, but trying to save myself from grief later.

My multiple maths are Mathusee alpha, Singapore 1a, and now xtramath ate.com for fluency.

[kalanamak]

Besides the look, sequence and logic of SM, I love how barebones it is. If kiddo sails through a topic, fine. If he doesn't, a swing back through some extra practice, etc until it "seats" in his mind. If he seems genuinely baffled, I use something extra for that topic. E.g. Key to Fractions

 

HTH.

[kalanamak]

I'd be way too lazy to use two, lol. I admire people who are willing to put in the time and effort to teach more than one program. :)

 

Well, if you child isn't "getting" something, there is only so many times you can teach and reteach and reteach using the same pages before one of you goes ballistic. I don't do it out of non-laziness, but more of a survival of the fittest. :001_smile:

[Spy Car]

Bill, would you recommend a switch after us 1B? I already purchased US everything IB, don't want to ditch it, but trying to save myself from grief later.

 

 

I believe it's the standard recommendation to switch editions after finishing the "B" level. Especially if you switch after 1B I'm sure you would not have any problem. It's not like the two are worlds apart. As long as you are feeling successful with what you are doing I would stay the course for this year. No problem.

 

Bill

[smilesonly]

honestly, because of the math nightmare i dragged myself and my dd through i use two programs "just in case." so basically, out of fear.

 

also, after our ds experienced math-phobia about a year ago, we decided to delay formal math until he was 10....

 

i love rod & staff as it is gentle(developmentally-wise and for the average dc), logical, systematic, traditional, thorough,teaches whole-to-parts, pages are not busy or colorful(works for my 2e, visual ds), and is so easy to teach from that even a math idiot like me can use it.;) gotta love the price, too.

 

i like math mammoth and use it to supplement to shake up the dry, boring lessons in rod&staff. i also use it to be sure my ds is conceptually understanding *why* he is doing x,y,z.

 

i'm actually hoping to use mm as our main math, and supplement with r&s someday. we'll see. i'm just happy my ds no longer has anxiety attacks when he sees numbers.:)

[TheAutumnOak]

I don't understand why some people use two math programs at the same time. For example Singapore and CLE. Doesn't Singapore cover everything needed??

 

 

 

:iagree: I also do not understand this...I will now read the replies to this thread to see why :tongue_smilie:

[Homemama2]

We were using Rightstart for my oldest and it didn't have enough drill for him so I added in Math Mammoth last year. I should clarify, most of the 'drill' in RS is suppose to be done through the games...but we were not getting time for them (my fault) and I needed a way to get more practice for him, while keeping it independent (with the games, I had to participate, MM sheets he could do on his own.) I also liked that while working through MM, they would hit different topics at different times of the year (I use light blue rather than the topical blue series) so he wouldn't forget concepts. He was one of those kids who could do all the RS sheets without missing any problems....but then a few months later forget how to do them.

With my other ds, he doesn't need this review, but I give it to him anyway for busy work. :tongue_smilie: I am against busy work, but he finishes his independent work so fast that he is done way ahead of brother....and then spends that time trying to be our little class clown. :glare:

[KristenR]

I wrote a blog post about why I added SM to Miquon. It's one of my more wordy posts but feel free to check it out.

[Soror]

We use RS here, on level C now and I cannot imagine doing any more Math than we already do. We generally take about 1 hr for lessons as it is, rare short days are 30 min and we have gone 1.5-2 hrs. DS loves the program and thrives with it though. I tried MM as a supplement last year but he hated it. I find the games to be good and sufficient review of anything we are doing and he is well-challenged.

[chepyl]

We use SM text, wkbk, IP, and CWP. I have the HIg, but have not really needed it. We drill skip counting for Classical Conversations, so that skill is strong theough 10s, we need more work through 15, but it will come. And we read Life of Fred for fun. I do not see that we need anything more than SM at this point, it gives varied methods of problem solving and definately has more than enough drill of you use the text exercises and the wkbk. Depending on your child's abilities adding the IP or EP gives plenty of practice.

 

I did not buy LoF because we needed more math, I bought it for fun amd something to do on days I was too sick to work through a whole new lesson. We are gettinga little from it, but it is mostly entertainment.

 

I would be more inclined to add xtramath.org to our math than buy another full curriculum to supplement and add drill. My son actually hates to practice something excessively once he has it down. Two programs would burn him out and make him hate math. You have to do what Is best for your child.

[In the Rain]

Well, I've had one student who was extremely apt when it comes to math and one that has struggled. In both cases, I've chosen to use multiple programs. For my better math student, it was a matter of providing greater challenge and depth -- really giving him the opportunity to explore and figure out new things on his own. For my weaker student, layering multiple programs has helped reinforce concepts that were challenging for her. Multiple approaches have really helped her when any single one might have gone right past her.

 

:iagree: Your whole post was awesome, and this part is especially true for us.

 

Well, if you child isn't "getting" something, there is only so many times you can teach and reteach and reteach using the same pages before one of you goes ballistic. I don't do it out of non-laziness, but more of a survival of the fittest. :001_smile:

 

:iagree: with this too. Sometimes in the A books, we hit concepts that just don't sink in right away.

 

 

I have been thinking about using Singapore Maths instead but don't understand the need to use another program with it as SM seems to cover everything required.

 

Thanks

 

I think Singapore does cover everything required. Sometimes my kids haven't "gotten it" though.

 

My kids both like Miquon too. I think it has to do with being able to choose which section they want to work on. It isn't straight front to back work.

[Crimson Wife]

I use multiple math programs because I have yet to find one program that is exactly the way I want it to be. Each program I've used has its own strengths and weaknesses, and I find that I need to pick & choose from multiple curricula to give my child a solid math education.

 

Right Start: Love the "hands-on" aspect and the solid foundation that Level B provides. The scripted nature of the lessons makes it super easy to teach. However, it is weak on word problems and while the material covered in B generally goes further than Singapore 1A/B, in a few places Singapore introduces concepts earlier (subtraction, multiplication, division). The higher levels have too much review and too little new material. Also, it is a quite teacher-intensive program so I do not want to be doing multiple levels of RS.

 

Singapore: Easier to accelerate than RS, and the IP books are fantastic for adding challenge. The word problems in the CWP and IP books are excellent. It is also much more independent (at least at the higher levels) than RS. However, I don't care much for 1A/B. Also, in some of the higher levels (3A & up), Singapore sometimes makes conceptual leaps that can be difficult for a child who is not intuitively "mathy" to follow along. Can be tricky to teach at times even with the HIG.

 

Math Mammoth: Excellent explanations that walk a student through a concept step-by-step-by-step. Can be used totally independently since the explanations are right there in the worktext. No need for a separate HIG. However, MM only has a few really challenging problems. There isn't anything equivalent to the Singapore IP or CWP books.

 

I start off with Right Start supplemented by Singapore and then transition to Singapore supplemented with MM.

[Spy Car]

Bill, would you recommend a switch after us 1B? I already purchased US everything IB, don't want to ditch it, but trying to save myself from grief later.

My multiple maths are Mathusee alpha, Singapore 1a, and now xtramath ate.com for fluency.

 

The standard recommendation for those who are going to switch editions is to do so after finishing the "B" level and starting afresh with "A." So in your case after 1B.

 

Don't make yourself crazy over this. The editions are not light-years apart. They are the same method, with slight differences in the order of topics, and some additional materials in the SE. If I had the 1B US Edition in hand I would use it. If the SE did not exist I would use the US Edition happily. I prefer the SE but that doesn't mean the US Edition is "junk"—it clearly is not—and there are people who prefer it (the US Edition) for various reasons.

 

I would rest easy :001_smile:

 

Bill

[kristinannie]

I don't have time to read all five pages of posts, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I love SM. It does have everything my child needs, especially with the IP and the CWP books. However, I LOVE the way that Miquon and MEP make the child think about math in a completely different way. It expands their understanding and just helps them to "get" math. So, I use all three. I won't do every.single.page of every.single.math program, but there are awesome things to be learned from all three. SM is our main program. It gets done daily. The other two we do about 3-4 times per week. It really just depends. We spend about 20-30 minutes daily on math with all the programs combined in 2 or 3 different session throughout the morning. DS5 loves it and doesn't ever complain. I don't even think he knows that MEP is math. :tongue_smilie:

[nikkid]

Me too...I don't have time to read through the pages but wanted to respond. If all we used was MUS workpages (they all have the same format) then when my dd was presented a page with math problems on it for a standardized test or some other reason she didn't recognize it.

 

Teaching from multiple styles/ways is how you reach true understanding and comprehension. Occasionally, some programs do a good job teaching from multiple angles and getting you to think about things from all angles, but most programs do not. We love the teaching and concept building in MUS but to make sure it's sinking in when things don't look just like it, we use other things.

 

I teach piano and find the same thing. If all I use is the method book (which uses the same format for all music) then when I place a piece of sheet music or another music book in front of my students then they are thrown off balance and don't know what to do. (However, I don't introduce other types of music unless the student has a good foundation in the method book first...usually a year of lessons unless it's an older student.)

 

Hope this helps,

Nikki

[dragons in the flower bed]

I don't understand why some people use two math programs at the same time. For example Singapore and CLE. Doesn't Singapore cover everything needed??

 

Imagine that you moved to a foreign country where everyone only speaks the local language except people in technical fields who do translating. You also only speak that language at home now. Would you feel like just using BJU English, a complete and comprehensive English program, would be enough to teach your kids English? It might, but the more English your child gets, the better his understanding will be. He'll have more words, more exposure to style, more options.

 

Using just one program, a child will think about math only the way that program explains it. But when you use two or more math programs, a child becomes math fluent, able to flexibly view math concepts in two or three ways, able to consider math ideas from multiple angles.

[Shellydon]

We use both Math Mammoth and Math U See. It works for us.

[MeganW]

Fear. :) I use several programs b/c I always hear people saying this or that program isn't working for them, and then you hear about people saying that if you switch too much later on, you can end up with gaps.

 

We are kindergarteners this year. We have more time now than we will in the future as we pick up more subjects. By doing several math programs now, we can see what approach works best for our kiddos, as well as really creating a firm foundation by hitting all the basics in several different ways so I KNOW they got it! I am hopeful that this year will really set us up for math success in the future.

 

As it is, one program (Miquon) isn't ideal for one my kiddos, but the others (RS & MEP) work for everybody. I'm glad to figure this out now rather than later - I have learned that one of my kids really needs direct instruction. She just is not going to noodle through and figure it out herself. If I had done only Miquon, I'd be a little nervous now, having to start something new next year and hoping to land on something that worked. B/c if I didn't get one that worked after that, it would become a lot more stressful as we headed into 2nd grade and had to start with another new program.

 

Also, there are some programs that work better at certain times. On days that we have a lot of appointments, RS is not happening b/c I can't lug all that stuff, so I need to choose one of the others. On other days, when the kids have done a lot of handwriting work in other subjects, I need to take that into account - they aren't going to want to do worksheets b/c their hands are tired.

 

As for having time, we are required by the state to school for 180 days. RightStart A has 77 lessons. MEP has 60. Miquon Orange has 127 lab sheets, and my kids usually do 2-3 at a sitting. So really, you CAN do 3 full programs in a year only doing one lesson per school day.

[lorisuewho]

As for having time, we are required by the state to school for 180 days. RightStart A has 77 lessons. MEP has 60. Miquon Orange has 127 lab sheets, and my kids usually do 2-3 at a sitting. So really, you CAN do 3 full programs in a year only doing one lesson per school day.

 

The questions about fitting in 2 curriculums or even supplementing get more difficult as the children get older and the curriculums get longer. I was spoiled this year being able to do so many different things. Next year the choices are more challenging!